Serious Self-Defense

[Olympic-Bullshitter]

Has strong supporters on both sides of the fence. These beliefs are spawned by many circumstances and ideologies,from the teachings of various religious doctrines, or personal experiences, to political slants or views on life in general.www.americancombato.com (http://www.americancombato.com/)

[soaringeagle]

????????????????????????????

why ya advertising some dojo here?

[Olympic-Bullshitter]

It should be obvious at this time in our planet's consciousness. This is the best possibility in surviving your family's crisis.Gatherings are kind of a gray area. What you do or don't do with the information is your business. www.attackproof.com (http://www.attackproof.com/)

[hippiehillbilly]

well i think some here live in this fantasy world where they believe that when the SHTF that they will be able to just flee into the woods gather in a mass number and ohhhhm and everything will be just fine lol..

personally the last place i wanna be when the SHTF is surrounded by a buncha peace loving hippies..
i saw in another thread about the coming collapse a chick claiming to be "a child of light" and talking about how she would dance and sing when the collapse came.. lol

i hope folks know the countryside will be left to foreign troops and the likes of blackwater to police. if you think they are going to respect a group of peace loving hippies desire to be left alone youve lost your fucking minds..

"warriors of the rainbow" will have no choice but to become just that or suffer the consequences.

so all yall pascifist types,have fun ohhhhming your way straight into concentration camps,as for me and mine,i think we have chosen to go the way of Geronimo...

[hippiestead]

Has strong supporters on both sides of the fence. These beliefs are spawned by many circumstances and ideologies,from the teachings of various religious doctrines, or personal experiences, to political slants or views on life in general. www american combato .com (link disabled by Cinnamon)

I don't feel this has anything to do with the Rainbow Family. There are other forums where this post would be a better fit.

[hippiehillbilly]

how does it not cinnamon? i mean "warriors of the rainbow" are part of the prophecy.i think if it was all going to be achieved with peace and love there would have been no need to use the term "warrior" in the prophecy now would there have been?

[drumminmama]

it is still spammy... and suspicious.

I think we can fix the thread by discussing, as you are, the benefits of knowing self defense, esp at a Gathering.
I ran from a guy at Missouri, and would up turning my knee quite badly.
If I'd had a bit of training, I probably still would have run first, but, ya know, I use public transport at all hours and I'm working a lot around some not great situations. I trick or two to buy time to escape could be great.

[soaringeagle]

we qre warriors warriors of the heart to teach peace and the last hope for peace
weve always defused confrontation with love with hugs with peace
\if we stop now, or in the face of whats to come then we fail in our purpose as a tribe
the prohesies lead us to believe whan the shit hits the fan we are hear to unify, to teach and to bring about peace
ya dont do that by being paranoid and arming yourself to the teeth you only accomplish that by pulling together as a sacred nation and teaching how to live without guns without fear andwithout violence

can u as a rainbow actualy shoot a child for being hungry?

when the shit hits the fan thats who you'll be deffending yourself against..society and the economy crumbles youyr neighbours become your enemy unless you make them your family

its put up or shut up
live the rainbow spirit
or live the babylon way, fighting till the end
personaly id die working for a solution, a peace, the rainbow dream before id ever pick up a gun against anyone

when babylon falls we need to be together, we need to be in harmony and we need to refuse violence or violence and death is all we will see

[hippiehillbilly]

lol keep dreamin..

put up or shut up??? lol..

im not going to touch that one with a ten foot pole..

[hippiehillbilly]

http://www.benfrank.net/nuke/ftaa112003/0gm-goon-squad1.jpg

http://www.roguegovernment.com/images/4922/policestate.jpg

http://www.infowars.net/pictures/news_files/Sept05/270905police_state.jpg


they have a peaceful solution planned for you alright,,its called a FEMA camp..

keep on dreamin....

[soaringeagle]

you are preparing for an economy collpse
when theres no money who pays soldiers? whats theyre motivation to shoot peaceful ppl sharing food and working for a solution?\
threatten with a gun and anyone with a gun will respond
give a hungry neighbour food and you make a freind
when the shit hitdss the fan it hits us all together
thats the time to all pull together to create peace
not go on fighting \


do you even believe in the rainbow purpose?
unifying all? creatting peace?
teaching the children how to live and love in harmony?
war is the enemy
going to war ..preparing for war will ensure war exists
now is the time to prepare for peace
its up to us to create it

always has been
and we've done a great job
we need to do better
we'ree learning
and we will suceed

[hippiehillbilly]

you have no concept of whats goin on around you whatsoever do you? who pays the soldiers? im not even going to begin educating you on the reality of what is coming. it would take far to long and quite frankly would be a waste of my time.

have fun at the saturday night drum circles in the fema camp...

[soaringeagle]

have fun being shot by everyone ya shoot at

srry id rather teach peace then fight a war

we have allways known what was comming and lived to prepare for it not fear it, but look forward to it
yes it will be hell for awhile
but only living as we know is right will keep it from being hell forever

[soaringeagle]

we go around chanting "babylon must fall" and now that it is do we run around screamming cause babylons falling?
this momment when babylon crumbles that is the rainbows finest hour, how we reacte then will deside the fait of the world forever
we say all with bellybuttons are family
when society crumbles to dusyt thats when we need to love that more then ever
no more us and them mentality..ever
it has to be just us
together
only way we will survive is together
with unified purpose
if we give up at that momment and choose to fight then we automaticly fail

[hippiehillbilly]

lol

[get_up_stand_up]

Wow, how can you ever achieve peace through violence? Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity. Once you start shooting, you make enemies. You start/continue the cycle of violence by fighting.

[soaringeagle]

pretty bad when a 15 year old is wiser then ya aint it?

u point a gun at any1 who has a gun they will point theyres back

pull the trigger and some1 dies
repeat that enough times and 1 time its you lying there dead

put the gun down and ya have an opurtunity to shake a hand...make peace

you are talking about shooting your brothers and sisters
not guiding them to a peaceful sustainable way of life but telling them live in fear kill before \your killed mentality
babylon at its best

it is time..you either are part of the solution or part of the problem
every1 killing eachotherr is a problem
everyone putting down theyre guns forgetting theyre differences and working together to rebuild is the only solutiopn
rainbow exists to pick up the peices and move on towards peace

[Whiskers123]

when theres no money who pays soldiers?

Look at North Korea... No matter how poor the US gets it will print money for its soldiers and its war.

[hippiehillbilly]

who EVER in this thread said anything about guns besides you? who said anything about being the agressor in this thread besides you?
you make some pretty bold assumptions in a thread about "self defense" that until you drug it off making assumptions was about martial arts not guns as a means to do so..

like i said its not worth the effort to try and have a logical discussion on the subject with you and your kind,you wont wake up till your headed into the gas chambers.

[soaringeagle]

Look at North Korea... No matter how poor the US gets it will print money for its soldiers and its war.what amount of worthless money woul it take to get soldies to kill theyre freinds?
when the us declares war on the us...who in theyre right mind would goon fighting?

would a penny in your pocket make u shoot some1 who only offered ya free food shelter safety and peace?


ofcouyrse if u shoot at em thats an inenive to shoot back

[soaringeagle]

who EVER in this thread said anything about guns besides you? who said anything about being the agressor in this thread besides you?
you make some pretty bold assumptions in a thread about "self defense" that until you drug it off making assumptions was about martial arts not guns as a means to do so..

like i said its not worth the effort to try and have a logical discussion on the subject with you and your kind,you wont wake up till your headed into the gas chambers.
you did in other threads
guns and booby traps

the whole ide of deffening againt agessive forces\
when things fall apart ppl will siffer and we must help them not hord and hide and deffend but share and care and teach

[hippiehillbilly]

other threads?? so fucking what about what i said in other threads.
THE FACT IS THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT SELF DEFENSE USING MARTIAL ARTS UNTIL YOU CHOSE TO DRAG IT OFF TOPIC AND NOW YOUR TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT BY USING ME AS YOUR SCAPE GOAT!!!!
god your such a fucking self righteous poser it sickens me.....

[soaringeagle]

other threads?? so fucking what about what i said in other threads.
THE FACT IS THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT SELF DEFENSE USING MARTIAL ARTS UNTIL YOU CHOSE TO DRAG IT OFF TOPIC AND NOW YOUR TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT BY USING ME AS YOUR SCAPE GOAT!!!!
god your such a fucking self righteous poser it sickens me.....i ragged it off?
who was it posting scary pictues of guns to hippies heads?


ya gonna use martiual arts then?


peacefullness is our best deffence

[hippiehillbilly]

there ya go using me as your scapegoat again.

pathetic..

[soaringeagle]

not so at all
expressing my opinion
yours just is contrary

[hippiehillbilly]

lol..

[OlderWaterBrother]

First soldiers don’t fight because they’re paid to, they do it because they are told to. If they can be convinced that what they do is for God and Country they will kill anyone that they are pointed at and consider it an honor.
Next really think about what could happen. anybody remember the Watts riots? Imagine that all over the world fueled by famine, fear and hatred.
So to soaringeagle I would be careful about standing in the way of that buzz saw at least until it begins to run out of steam. No matter how peaceful your intentions.
To hippiehillbilly remember mobs are hard to stop. Even heavily armed police forces can be driven back by an unarmed mob. If you have something they want they will take it and guns are something they want. Shooting at people will only draw attention to you.
My suggestion is treat it like a hurricane.
Hunker down in a safe place till the worst blows over.
Then hippiehillbilly, this is where what your saying comes in, the first out are going to be looters, they will not be listening to reason they will want to take every thing you have, not share and will kill you to do it. Everyone has a right to self defense and to protect his family.
After the looting has subsided it will be your turn soaringeagle to get everyone to lay down their guns and enter the new world of peace and love and sharing.

Hope to see you all there in the new world.
OWB

[hippiehillbilly]

oh dont worry about me and mine, we have plan A,B,C,D,and E already in place.we are prepared to hunker down,bug out,whatever we need do to survive till everything blows over.

we aint no city hippies i can guarantee you that.. ;)

the fucked up thing about people like soaring eagles way of thinking is that they automatically assume that if one has a gun for protection they will use it as a first means of defense. that is simply wrong. anyone with any sense weighs all options before making such a decision.

would i stand and fight against 100 armed men? HELL NO! nor would i be STUPID enough to stick around and try and make peace with them..

like i said its impossible to have a intelligent conversation with his type on this subject because they choose to not believe in self defense.

sorry, i personally believe self defense is part of self preservation..

so go ahead and stand there and play jesus,,you should slow them up an gimme time to get on outta sight...

[Therese Aline]

Are you a mod, hippiehillbilly? I thought you were. Why do I keep seeing mods flaming people when they ban other people for doing the same thing? Why all this hypocrisy? If you're just going to bitch AT people, and not debate the actual topic why not follow your own rules and keep your mouth shut? I don't see soaring eagle calling you a 'fucking self-righteous poser' that's 'headed for the gas chambers.'

[pixeewinged]

"The best way of avenging ourselves is by not resembling him who has injured us."
~Jane Porter

I dont know, on the one hand, soaringeagle is right, you must be the change you wish to see in the world, and if you wish to see peace, you must practice peace.

However, on the other Hippiehillbilly.. I do see your point, and I sort of agree with you as well. Certainly there will come a time when currupted governments turn on the people of the world. There will be much bloodshed.. disease, starvation, war, all manor of sickening and grotesque violence. Many of us, in our snap "fight or flight" responses will fight back, and righteously so. The desperate struggles of the dying rat caught in a snakes coils.
I cannot say that it would be wrong to choose that path, 'tis mere survival... I can even imagine, under the right (wrong) circumstances, that I might take that deadly gamble myself.. choosing to fight and die with dignity rather than living (for whatever time I might be allowed) in fear and tyranny. Afterall, none of us, not even the most peaceful and loving among us, knows for sure what we might be capable of when drinkable water and eatable food sources have all but disappeared... New Orleans can attest to that.

Still, I do know one thing to be true, war and fighting have never really solved anything, mostly they have just compounded the problems of those who are engaged... even when fighting for a righteous cause.

Take Iraq, there are plenty of folks there who fight, not for some crazy religious jihad, but because they feel that their very survival depends on it. Some of them may strap bombs to themselves, or sit atop a roof ready to snipe off the enemy... they arent wrong in their feelings, or in their attempts to liberate themselves, however, when that bomb explodes in the market killing 40 people, or that sniper accidentally blows the brains of an 8 year old girl all over the side of a building, it is certainly only compounding their problems.
The reason The Iraq occupation has been allowed to go on this long, and been this bloody is in part because of the violence of the people there. If the Iraqi's were practicing resistence through peaceful means- like the monks of tibet, I have a feeling that upon the world stage America's aggression would be viewed as the disgusting display it is, and rather than having any "coalition of the willing" we would instead be presented with scorn and anger.

I feel that it would be much the same in our own battle for liberation from the crazed imaginations of a currupt elite. The people might fight, and even win a battle here or there, but victory would not last long and would we pyrrhic- as it would only spur a deep vengance and stronger resolve in the oppressors. As their anger and contempt grows so too will their inhumanity.. the stronger you resist, the stronger and more insane they will become. ~ and where will the world be then??

Peace is the only real solution to a problem like that of the above. People eventually grow tired of killing unarmed, nonresisting, unsuspicious citizens who are just going about trying to live their lives... You may find soldiers putting down their guns, and joining you after seeing enough displays of selflessness and peacefulness. If for instance, soldiers were sent to raid the food stores of any given community, and the people, even if they have next to nothing gladly offer their last loaf, rather than trying to hide it, or resist it being taken, or rather than behave hostile, even going as far as to offer rest and whatever aid they can ... imagine the impact that would have on most men. Sure, some might scoff at you and even kill you for your efforts, but with time and widespread kindness of this sort the ultimate result would be weariness of a pointless violence.

So though you are right to some degree hippiehillbilly, fighting is natural, and fighting for a just cause is a way to attempt to secure or preserve your freedom, and failing that die with dignity... but I think soaringeagle simply has the better solution to the problem.

"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: The last of human freedoms - to choose ones attitude in any given circumstances - to choose ones own way."
~Viktor Frankel

[PeaceItOut]

you are preparing for an economy collpse
when theres no money who pays soldiers? whats theyre motivation to shoot peaceful ppl sharing food and working for a solution?\
threatten with a gun and anyone with a gun will respond
give a hungry neighbour food and you make a freind
when the shit hitdss the fan it hits us all together
thats the time to all pull together to create peace
not go on fighting \


do you even believe in the rainbow purpose?
unifying all? creatting peace?
teaching the children how to live and love in harmony?
war is the enemy
going to war ..preparing for war will ensure war exists
now is the time to prepare for peace
its up to us to create it

always has been
and we've done a great job
we need to do better
we'ree learning
and we will suceed
i completely agree with eagle...Peace!
Why is this even a discussion?!

[soaringeagle]

pixiewinged
very very thoughtfully put

[pixeewinged]

haha, when I started writing, you guys had just started your exchange... by the time I was finished the conversation had changed totally... I probly would have changed a few parts of my post had I known. Still though, I think I got my point accross ;)

[Olympic-Bullshitter]

Laws regarding self-defense differ from state to state or check jury instructions for justifiable homicide. Basically, go out of your way to stay out of trouble and not get into arguments--saying whatever needs to be said to appease the other person and only fighting when there is no other choice. It's important that you are frightened for your life, and that you feel that you're going to be seriously harmed or killed if you don't take action. This needs to be made clear to the authorities. Drop the macho nonsense. If something seems "off," leave the area.

[MagnanimityMan]

i will read through this all in the next few days..
i will..


let me just say,


that the economy isn't going to collapse how once believed..

candlelight will become trendy,
and people will learn a lot of wisdom of not burning down their house.

the economy isn't going to collapse,
because we are all always going to need eachother for many things.
some more then others.


foreign troops will never be on our soil because we are america and we ARE the greatest darn nation in the world.
if you dont see that, then i dont know what to tell you,
our kids are going to have to learn how to live for a brighter future, that's for sure.
as is the world as a whole,
as ARE WE.

i'm going to pick up my guitar personally.

wisdom will be illuminating a world of love and understandings,

and good points will make greater points to us all.



the world will be safe, for words of love will settle anything,
do not fear,
love.


the world is a GREAT place,
you don't need regus speilbin to tell you that (spelling check)


the rainbow will live on,

sooner then later we will find habitate , and be happy and self sufficant,

farms will become more popular over the years,
and will crates of dried pineapples be shipped to our gatherings from brother and sister communes,

we will, and can, hike the great trails of the country, if we need to go to mexico, well hey ya.

and if we need to go down into south america together,
i'm sure even PRESIDENTS will welcome us,
with flowers ;)
one and all.

we will keep on truckin, brothers and sisters all,
because we are the rainbow,
and we are the light,
warriors, yes... because we are having to perservere,
like we always have,
and always will.

they do call it a prophecy, because it supposedly IS Great.

i do believe it will be Great.

and again, the love we have together , and rediscovering such rain and snow never grows old.


i heard this wyoming gathering will be great,
i don't know if i could make it there,
but, tell me about it...

[MagnanimityMan]

let me just add,,, i have faith we will prosper humblly here in america,

and let me just add... pineapples from hawaaii,.. by the crate :)

[soaringeagle]

i have very high hopes for this ghathering
i feel we may have the best gathering so fsr this year
we may even have the chance to try to close the devide between fs leos and rainbows
(yes maybe too much to expect, but even a lil change for the better would be a step in the right direction)

to gety back on the subject of self deffence, and now ya bring up justifiable homocide

when ya have 20 skinheads stomping on your skull with steel toe boots by law youd be justified to kill every last 1 of them

well..thats happened to me.. and i
wouldnt hurt any 1 of them
sure they were assholes
but they were also someones children
and 1 day might end up changing
the decicion to hurt some1..or take a life should never be taken lightly
20 boots smashing my skull very well could have killed me sure
but, could have survived too (and did odviosly)
how the hell do you weigh your lifes worth aghainst another?
whar ego lets you believe that you desserve to live more then anyone else?

i know a girl, whod been raped 20+ times and nearly killed, shes a black belt and could kill with ease.. but when attacked, even with such a pass of abuse, shed never ever alow herself to harm even someone who meant to harm her..

peacefulness can be disarming

challenging can only causer resistence


hhb you go on and on about deffence saying you need to fdeffend yourself or end in a fema camp then say you would be smart enough to not deffend yourself from 100 armed men

well if u fight wont they send 100 armed men?

if u reacte peacefuly..in a large group like a gatthering
100 armed men cant do a thing

an army could..but an army sent against peacefiul people would only bring more armies against itself

peace will win in the end

[Therese Aline]

Soaringeagle, you are a very good person and I respect you.

[Musikero]

Actually running IS generally a very effective tactic of self defense.
it is still spammy... and suspicious.

I think we can fix the thread by discussing, as you are, the benefits of knowing self defense, esp at a Gathering.
I ran from a guy at Missouri, and would up turning my knee quite badly.
If I'd had a bit of training, I probably still would have run first, but, ya know, I use public transport at all hours and I'm working a lot around some not great situations. I trick or two to buy time to escape could be great.

[pixeewinged]

well I am a pacifist in most cases, but, I do think there are situations where defending oneself is not the same as violence. In a war, occupation, martial law, genocide or any such government sanctioned aggresive violence, the answer is always peace...because as I said before, any violent resistence just compounds the problems.

But when you are talking about the everyday weirdo's and wacko's I do believe that there are some situations that may require you to administer a hard swift kick to the groin or some other similar self defense strategy, and I dont think you could necessarily call that violence. Violence implies, aggression, brutality, cruelty, and hostility.. and fighting back against a rapist or thug just isnt the same... if anything its plain and simple defense which implies, protection, security and justification.

I agree with you soaringeagle that who is anyone to take a the life of another? but, I also believe that each of us does have a right to preserve our own lives on that same token. I think even Nature agree's, as she has equipped us with a "fight or flight" response, our built in mechanism for self preservation. Of course, that isnt to say that that fighting is our only option, or that its always the best for a given situation, as "fight or flight" means simply to fight if you MUST, flee if/when you can.

In the case of a rapist or a thug attacking you... and I mean with intent to do you bodily harm...(if he is just trying to rob you, always give him what he wants!! - shit can be replaced!) I think it is in your best interest, and indeed your evolutionary duty to get away, and if in the process you must sucker punch the bastard, so be it.

[tikoo]

a warrior of peace is sophisticated . the only way to become is to have a heartfelt intention free of programming . even peace programming is not that great . peace is creative and inspired . rainbow is a way we find it in togetherness . we are strong family ... um ... at least we exercize regularly .

[Rainbowtoke]

While I believe in peace I will not just sit and take a beating nor will turn tail and run. I will defend myself. Defending oneself has little to do with being a peaceful person. Living on the road/streets if you dont defend yourself you wind up not "being" anymore. Defending yourself in one way or the other is a fact of life. Its how you choose to do this that remains in question...

[gobot]

Hillbilly hippy I think you are suffering from Delusions of grandeur you are sounding like David Koresh or some delusional tyrant.
You really think if the sky falls everyone will be in trouble but not you because you are on private property?
If the sky falls what good is private property if the world is in chaos.
Can you defeat the police now?
Well if the sky falls I’m sure there will be martial law and the military forces don’t have to give you civil rights or get court warrants for your private property. All of those hummers, 50 caliber machine guns and apache helicopters will roll out of the armories.
So if you can’t defeat them now you sure as hell aren’t going to in martial law.
If the Rainbow family started getting armed and prepared for violence the government would call us a “terrorist group” and it would give them an excuse to arrest us all.
Non-violence is the only way the rainbow family can survive.
Why devote all of our energy towards violence just to destroy ourselves?
Like soaring eagle was saying earlier stop hording food and share with your fiends and family and be happy.
Stop acting like a skizo rat.



i hope folks know the countryside will be left to foreign troops and the likes of blackwater to police. if you think they are going to respect a group of peace loving hippies desire to be left alone youve lost your fucking minds..

"warriors of the rainbow" will have no choice but to become just that or suffer the consequences.

so all yall pascifist types,have fun ohhhhming your way straight into concentration camps,as for me and mine,i think we have chosen to go the way of Geronimo...

[OlderWaterBrother]

well I am a pacifist in most cases, but, I do think there are situations where defending oneself is not the same as violence. In a war, occupation, martial law, genocide or any such government sanctioned aggresive violence, the answer is always peace...because as I said before, any violent resistence just compounds the problems.

But when you are talking about the everyday weirdo's and wacko's I do believe that there are some situations that may require you to administer a hard swift kick to the groin or some other similar self defense strategy, and I dont think you could necessarily call that violence. Violence implies, aggression, brutality, cruelty, and hostility.. and fighting back against a rapist or thug just isnt the same... if anything its plain and simple defense which implies, protection, security and justification.

I agree with you soaringeagle that who is anyone to take a the life of another? but, I also believe that each of us does have a right to preserve our own lives on that same token. I think even Nature agree's, as she has equipped us with a "fight or flight" response, our built in mechanism for self preservation. Of course, that isnt to say that that fighting is our only option, or that its always the best for a given situation, as "fight or flight" means simply to fight if you MUST, flee if/when you can.

In the case of a rapist or a thug attacking you... and I mean with intent to do you bodily harm...(if he is just trying to rob you, always give him what he wants!! - shit can be replaced!) I think it is in your best interest, and indeed your evolutionary duty to get away, and if in the process you must sucker punch the bastard, so be it.Very nicely stated and I agree with you!

[earthling2]

Dear Hippiehillbilly:
Those pictures are scary, and it's a jungle out there alright. But try and keep the faith, however, be aware of big brother as well.
LINDA, I love the family, but we are in for changes, and more.

[CloudFlower]

???

[MagnanimityMan]

like a slipknot all those who were holding back hippies will accept us.

it is earth that is breathing,

and noone will stand for tyranny on any level like that




as for the rainbow family of love and light, we will find our freedom almost naturally in the next few gatherings.

be aware , too, that many new kids are going to come and check out the gatherings.. those who have been to gatherings will just have to make sure fires are safe and police people , when they walk to gates , they are greeted and talked to kindly and informed of our new procedures.


they will be something like

only small fires under trees

trees are ... funny feet tall

and thats about it.. well....

rather... talk amungst yall

all that i want to suggest

is that we should respect

even when we are not....


one minute, sorry for the double post
but, i wrote a poem the other night..

[MagnanimityMan]

to walk in love is to sow good for the world

by ethan azuz



understanding UNION might help us along with understanding ourselves,

this world, so it is said,

is on a path

of love.



leaving

just that, love,

is easy when it is what

we wish to do, it comes naturally, when we know that is what we want.

wherever we go, living

deliberately

in love

it is that

that we share

ultimately , so i believe.

in the world, yeah sometimes not every way is understood in perfection

but when we leave more

and learn more

along the

way it all

really seems like

it will , or, it should, come

back around to not only us, but meaningfully the rest of the world too.

tho sometimes, we work

we work harder

and darn

darn hard

but who can deny

that all the effort we give

does not come back around to US ultimately in the end, for why, why

do we pray?, why have we?

why would we??

do you?

or do

you walk around

and not look up to the sky

and hope the rain will not fall to your land, to feed all the people, and

make the field flourish as

all the seeds do

grow

grow

is that not what

you have faith in? do you

not expect to be rewarded for all that it is that you sow, and have sown

is G-d not good? is not

Spirit true to you

and to,

to me

ultimately, reality

will leave us in the way it

leaves us all. and we will look back wondering did we not stand up

did we not walk the way

of our heart, with

our heads

looking

up

looking up : )

[Action Lad]

what about using self defense to simply disarm your enemy.

Using martial arts, not to kill, but to disable the aggressor's ability to harm you.

Is this bad?

Advocating love and peace is good, but you must also survive, if you want that message and intent to become perennial

[soaringeagle]

disarming is always good ourselves and agreesssors

[Rainbowtoke]

Don't be fools. Pray for the best and prepare for the worst. Never get caught with your pants down...
I agree with Hippiebilly and Soaringeagle...

[Action Lad]

First soldiers don’t fight because they’re paid to, they do it because they are told to. If they can be convinced that what they do is for God and Country they will kill anyone that they are pointed at and consider it an honor.
Next really think about what could happen. anybody remember the Watts riots? Imagine that all over the world fueled by famine, fear and hatred.
So to soaringeagle I would be careful about standing in the way of that buzz saw at least until it begins to run out of steam. No matter how peaceful your intentions.
To hippiehillbilly remember mobs are hard to stop. Even heavily armed police forces can be driven back by an unarmed mob. If you have something they want they will take it and guns are something they want. Shooting at people will only draw attention to you.
My suggestion is treat it like a hurricane.
Hunker down in a safe place till the worst blows over.
Then hippiehillbilly, this is where what your saying comes in, the first out are going to be looters, they will not be listening to reason they will want to take every thing you have, not share and will kill you to do it. Everyone has a right to self defense and to protect his family.
After the looting has subsided it will be your turn soaringeagle to get everyone to lay down their guns and enter the new world of peace and love and sharing.

Hope to see you all there in the new world.
OWB
Ya know, i fear that not many of us have caught what OWB wrote.
He makes the most sense right now, and guess what...He thinks that both soaringeagle and hippiehillbilly are right!

If we want peace and family to rise to replace the current system, we need to connect the perspectives and intent of both the heart and the urge to survive in the face of anything.

[hippiehillbilly]

Don't be fools. Pray for the best and prepare for the worst. HO!!

[tikoo]

yaya , in making peace out of a bad scene with an aggressor i can get some lingering bitterness about it later . the feeling is i still want revenge for the wrong . forgiveness too is survival .

[hippiehillbilly]

foreign troops will never be on our soil .
never say never,ever hear of operation garden plot? just a little excerpt,


http://www.uhuh.com/control/garden.htm

If any civil disturbance by a resistance group, religious organization, or other persons considered to be non-conformist takes place, under Appendix 3 to Annex B of Plan 55-2 herebygives all Federal forces total power over the situation if local and state authorities cannot put down said dissenters. Annex A, section B of Operation Garden Plotdefines tax protesters, militia groups, religious cults, and general anti-government dissenters as Disruptive Elements. This calls for the deadly force to be used against any extremist or dissident perpetrating any and all forms of civil disorder.Under section D, a Presidential Executive Order will authorize and direct the Secretary of Defense to use the Armed Forces of the United States to restore order.
2 TAB A APPENDIX 1 TO ANNEX S USAF CIVIL DISTURBANCE PLAN 55-2 EXHIBIT POR:SGH, JCS Pub 6, Vol 5, AFR 160-5 hereby provides for America's military and the National Guard State Partnership Program to join with United Nations personal in said operations.

[pixeewinged]

yeah hippihillbilly, I agree with that one hundred percent!! - When our government turns on us, I can almost guarentee that it wont be our own troops doing the majority of "keeping of the peace" - U.S. soldiers would, IMO only follow orders to kill American citizens up to a point.

(of course I know many of them would have no trouble with it, New Orleans proved military violence against ones own fellow citizens is acceptable to them with its "beat and release" policy.)

But to wage an all out attack on the citizenry (many of which would include soldiers friends/family) it would take a foreign militia/army to do it. And believe you me, there would be no shortage of volunteers for that military opperation. I still stand by peace as the best defense, though I do agree OWB in that there is going to be a time to hunker down and try to keep out of the way.

[ID10T]

City Hippie and the Country Hippie...........

Expect the WORST. Anything BETTER is a BLESSING!!!

City Hippies: Live in Babylon Cities with FAKE Dreads that are disrespectful to the Rastafari and close to the Hand that feeds (spanks and can KILL) you, Complaining that "we're not Free".

Country Hippie: Aware of the worlds good/bad. In tune with ones self. TRULY fulfilling One's SELF desires with Nature. Free-Spirited!


PR

Here's your stinking City man!!!!! And you wonder why the Gov'y'ment wont rebuild NOLA.....ITS SUPPOSSED TO SINK AND BE DESTROYED. Now go move to Southern Cali!

http://www.freelayouticons.com/graphics/1174743321-11_new.jpg

[ID10T]

WHOA, Nobody Flamed me??????


Guess everyone Knows the Stories ending of the Country Mouse and the City Mouse Where..............


THEY BOTH NEEDED EACH OTHER.


Jeez, Glad I'm here JUST to make you think!

PR

[OlderWaterBrother]

WHOA, Nobody Flamed me??????
Sorry, I missed the signals!
Okay, Here goes! You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny!

Peace and Love,
OWB

[Musikero]

That is a noble goal. But:

If by "disarm" you mean "remove an attacker's weapon from his grasp by either knocking it away or somehow grabbing it and/or breaking his wrist/arm/shoulder in the process", then I say, "Easier said than done."

Gun disarms will only work if you're close enough to touch your attacker, and even then you have to remember that all he needs to do is move one finger to pull the trigger.

We occasionally practice knife disarms in our dojo, but any sensible martial artist will tell you that if someone wants to slice you up, you have a better chance of survival if you run away instead of playing "kung-fu master" and trying to disarm him. Besides, chances are you won't even see the knife until it's sticking in your guts.

Weapons give the wielder an unfair advantage over you, no matter how good a martial artist you are.

If you must use martial arts, I recommend using it not so much to disarm but to buy you time and opportunity to run away. Forget about disarming. Of course if you do get the chance to disarm then go ahead - if you get the chance. Your top priority is still running away, though.


what about using self defense to simply disarm your enemy.

Using martial arts, not to kill, but to disable the aggressor's ability to harm you.

Is this bad?

Advocating love and peace is good, but you must also survive, if you want that message and intent to become perennial

[geckopelli]

Wow!
I just read this whole thread, (better described as a "hole" thread, perhaps!?!).

Some pretty diverse opinions for sure. So here's mine:

Roll with the punches!

Every potentially confrontational situatuion contains it's own potential for defense. Cut-and-run or stand and fight is a descion that must be made on the spot.

Be ready for both!