My Truth

[Chodpa]

Ever since I started pondering life and the divine and the meaning for life I have pretty much believed the same things. And even though many religions and philosophies seem to differ from what I believe that doesn't make what I believe wrong, even though my raison d'etre is somewhat useless and free of guidance. But here is what I believe.

(1) Everything is already divine, and even though some things apparently are really hellishly bad, even those things are better than nothing,
(2) Nothing a person thinks, says, does, makes them more nor less divine than anything else. However, what one thinks, says, does may help or hinder such realization,
(3) Realization of divinity is no help as far as living life, and it may make life very much harder to live, since you will not trust other individual's or institution's judgements any longer,
(4) Life ultimately is meaningless in that any small meaning is overwhelmed by the totality, and any large meaning is underwhelmed by the small things, thus life is pointless to the extreme. This means one is totally free to do as they really believe, even if it runs contrary to other's accepted values.
(5) This philosophy is the basis of understanding ones responsibility towards others, that is, when one is free then what they do is of ultimate importance, at least as far as ones own life is concerned. That is, ones intention is everything.
(6) As far as karma, karma is as karma does thus if you destroy sentience you lose some, but if you shelter others then you gain some. This ability to harm or shelter other beings is at the basis of ones own ability to grow in awareness.

That's about it. Does anyone agree/disagree with this? I suppose I have a loose philosophy because I'm not a very harmful person and my intentions are good. I suppose if someone needs more of a whip to set them straight then they would find my philosophy without much in the way of guidance.

But for them I have a guide that I use when I am confused about my motives.

Like this - I feel from where in my body the desire for the action arises and whether it is benevolent or malevolent. Then if I can I either act from it/don't act from it to further benevolence/hinder malevolence. It sounds maybe easier than it is, it also maybe sounds harder than it is. It's a fine line for personal behavious but I find this is a good guide for knowing the result of my behaviour as far as how it will return to me later.

Thanks for reading.

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

very interesting! I want to watch this thread and see where it goes.

[tikoo]

(1) Everything is already divine, and even though some things apparently are really hellishly bad, even those things are better than nothing... nothingness is the strangest idea to me .

can it be utter non-existence , a universal deathly stillness? i dread of the thought , though the horror of it seems to reveal an innate life purpose (divine) to defeat entropy . life is motion and well , it moves stuff about .

then once i had a curious vision of the Void , and it is part of me and within myself . it come with an instruction . don't throw no shit in the Void ! and of course i had just the moment before impulsively done exactly that . this sort of nothingness - an essence of divine ?

[yyyesiam2]

void is simply undivided.......i think..........:)

[BlackBillBlake]

To me it all seems a bit nihilistic.

I'd have to say that in some of your points , I differ quite a lot.


1) Everything is already divine, and even though some things apparently are really hellishly bad, even those things are better than nothing,

I don't think everything is already divine. Everything may be a manifestation of the divine, but not a direct manifestation. As well as the divine, there is the un-divine and the anti-divine.


(2) Nothing a person thinks, says, does, makes them more nor less divine than anything else. However, what one thinks, says, does may help or hinder such realization,

I agree with this. It is ok to say everyone is divine, but the thing is they don't realize the divine either in themselves or anywhere else. By personal effort, one can have increasing realization.

3) Realization of divinity is no help as far as living life, and it may make life very much harder to live, since you will not trust other individual's or institution's judgements any longerI wholeheartedly disagree with this. If you realizxe the divine, you realize the transcendence. You won't be affected by other persons or institutions.
It is absurd in my opinion to think that somehow the ignorant human being driven by blind forces and egoism will find life 'easier' to live! The divine consciousness can obviously do anything the human mind can do a million times better.
The consciousness of the divine is inately blissful.

(4) Life ultimately is meaningless in that any small meaning is overwhelmed by the totality, and any large meaning is underwhelmed by the small things, thus life is pointless to the extreme. This means one is totally free to do as they really believe, even if it runs contrary to other's accepted values.
Once again, I don't agree that life is meaningless. The meaning eludes the mind which tries to grasp it or formulate it in a narrow logical way. Meaning is something which has to be lived in order to be known.
In a sense though, we could say that the meaning of it all is that it is a manifestation of the divine.
But even if you accept this position, you are still free - as free as a conditioned being can be.
Realization would put you in a position where you couldn't accept any values except the values derived from that realization.
It is only through realization that one can really have freedom in the true sense.

(5) This philosophy is the basis of understanding ones responsibility towards others, that is, when one is free then what they do is of ultimate importance, at least as far as ones own life is concerned. That is, ones intention is everything.
(6) As far as karma, karma is as karma does thus if you destroy sentience you lose some, but if you shelter others then you gain some. This ability to harm or shelter other beings is at the basis of ones own ability to grow in awareness.

Well I can't disagree that we have to be wholly responsible for what we do, and we should treat others as we would ourselves be treated. Where we can support others, or be of help, it's all to the good.

Anyway Chodpa, those are my thoughts for what it's worth.

[darrellkitchen]

Well ... you're right there ... it is "YOUR TRUTH".


And, if nothing is proven but one thing, that would have to be that WORDS are nothing but a medium by which one describes their perception of their particular reality.

[themnax]

thank you for seeing with your own eyes.

i don't think being better then nothing has as much to do with divinity as being the visible surface of unseen spiritness (not neccessarily sentient) /energies might. of course i'm not saying very well something that's not really about words anyway.

nothing makes a person more or less divine, but some things they do, or possibly even think, make whatever world their living in a happier or less so place for everyone in it, themselves included.

divinity isn't the point. passing on the hugs of the unseen in nonintrusive ways might be.

something good to remember might be that we don't have to be infallable, that quite possibly nothing does, though whether or not something or things unseen might be, is itself unseen. which is to say beyond our knowledge.

it IS better to live for the enjoyment of living, then for accumulation or excitement. or at least there is far less harm caused by doing so then by either.

enlightenment is unlikely to be gained by beating one's self over the head just to be doing so.

all of us togather create what each of us allone witnessess, in THIS life. might be true in all lives. might not. bridges to be crossed when encountered.

meh. i know nothing. i just look out of the eyes i have. feel with the feelings and thoughts that i have. stub my toes occasionally too.

you know what i'm glad for? i'm glad the universe doesn't have to care how much anyone might want to narrow its diversity.

=^^=
.../\...

[BlackBillBlake]

Well ... you're right there ... it is "YOUR TRUTH".


And, if nothing is proven but one thing, that would have to be that WORDS are nothing but a medium by which one describes their perception of their particular reality.




No doubt words are merely counters in a much bigger game - but if we are to use internet forums, we are stuck with them as tools of communication. Unless we just post pictures.

Also - I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, I'm not trying to 'prove' anything to anyone - just stating in verbal form some arguments against Chodpa's somewhat bleak notion of 'truth'.

[darrellkitchen]

... but personally, I'm not trying to 'prove' anything ...Oooooo ... perhaps I misunderstand this ... hoping I am ... my response was but a reply to the primary poster's first two words "My Truth", and my comment ("... WORDS are nothing ...") was meant for everyone.

Sorry, Bill, if you thought I was commenting directly to you ... I wasn't.

[BlackBillBlake]

Sorry, Bill, if you thought I was commenting directly to you ... I wasn't.




No problem Darell.:)

[darrellkitchen]

My TruthWouldn't the term "Truth" usually denote an absolute?


To be frank, Chodpa, I'm not sure you honestly believe what you posted here. First you claim that "Everything is already divine," which pretty much claims "Everything" is ... well ... God or godlike. Then you say that things are "hellishly bad". If everyone (or everything) is "God" or "godlike" how can such beings (or things with the ability to perceive) perceive things as being "hellish", much less "hellishly bad". Again, if everything is God or godlike, how can you, Chodpa, realize this and yet criticize on "what one thinks, says, or does"?

Seems to me, and this is just my own personal opinion, that if one were to come to such a realization of this type, they would have moved beyond judging others actions (body, speech, and mind) and/or motivations. Granted, unless one has moved beyond the realm of comparing others actions to ones own (and let's be real here, that is just what judging is) one can hardly ever see, much less believe that "Everything is ALREADY divine". That would be comparable to God (or anything godlike) critizing themselves. And if these beings were God or godlike, wouldn't they have moved beyond such trivial pursuits as to be dualistic in comparing their views against others and rendering decisions as to make their views appear to be the correct ones? After all, this is what judgments are. One compares their ideas of what is right against others actions. Making their ideas and views the only "true" ones, and everyones (or everythings) ideas and views outside this not-true.

Is it really possible that anyone or anything who REALIZES that everything is already divine make statements that "Life ultimately is meaningless"? Seems to me that anyone who comes to a REALIZATION that everything is divine would have also come to the realization that ... well ... Life Is What You Make Of It ... Literally! Would a divine being/entity/thing think its own existance meaningless? Would it even be capable of conceiving its own existence as meaningless? If so, then why doesn't the "Divine" simply cease existing if its existence is without purpose or meaning?

As far as karma (the word LITERALLY means ACTION) goes ... everything is Karma (pali: Kamma). Sight, action of seeing; Sound, action of hearing; Aromas, action of smelling; Flavors, action of tasting; Touch, action of feeling (tactile); Thought, actions of mind. Our entire existence is based on action. Moving from realm to realm is a result of action. Everything is action. Everything is Impermanent. No action equals no existence, no birth, no death ... and no ideas or views by which to judge (compare) others actions, ideas or views outside our own.

So, back to my original statement ... I find it difficult to understand how you can believe your own truth. If it is TRUE that Everything is divine, then this divine "everything" would be incapable of critical thought, speech, or deed ... wouldn't that be like saying, "I'm perfect, but I'm not perfect"? ???

Although in my honest opinion, anything divine would not even contemplate itself "perfect" because this too is a dualistic thought as to be "perfect" would mean there is something "imperfect" to be in comparison with.

I guess TRUTH is realitive to the perceiver ... ehh ??? Even if it is laced with non-truth.

[themnax]

i wonder if by devine he might have ment what i mean by spiritness. not so much a property of perfection as of nontangableness? like a sense of solidness you can feel, without being able to convey that solidness to someone else by pointing to some visibly solid thing and saying there it is.

=^^=
.../\...

[darrellkitchen]

i wonder if by devine he might have ment what i mean by spiritness. ...Hmmm ...

Then again, words describing ones own reality. I suppose it would be easier to understand the personal usage of a word if we were able to read each others minds. That certainly would lead to a lot less misunderstandings, and consequently a lot less headaches.

[yyyesiam2]

very true. that's why the right questions kick ass (in my opinion :))