Shameless_Heifer and Haight Ashbury

[hippietoad]

Just to let those of you who have had the pleasure of meeting Shamelss_Heifer on here that she has decided to share her memories of the 60's and Haight Ashbury with us. You can find her story at: http://www.geocities.com/kindredhippie/ It can be found by following the "Writings" link.
Also Zorch, you made artist of the week for our yahoo group :p
Check it out.
Hippietoad

[Tamee]

I liked that story. Wonderful to imagine a life like that, so different from the one I'm living, having spent most of my life in front of some sort of screen. I feel so inexperienced and I want to know more...but not from someone else's words...

[HippieFlowerGirl67]

I wanna live on Haight/Ashbury!

[heifers_calf]

Imagine growing up a hippie mascot i was there ball for foot ball or catch. The guys had me jumping from the lofts so they could catch me,wich mom regrets cause i would launch myself from the fridge whene she walked into the room.I was raised by 3000 hippies in Haight Ashbury.now imagin a five year old long haired leather bound hippie boy moving to Texas. Man did i have the time of it. It wasnt too bad I was smarter than all the kids my age hell i was smater than most 18 year old.I learned from the Hells Angels and hippie flower children i experianced more in five years than most adults. I AM PROUD TO BE A CHILD OF HAIGHT,AND CALF OF SHAMELESS

[shameless_heifer]

He's my Ace june coon
He's my Pride and Joy
He's a crazy mother fucker
But he's still my boy
I love you Jomie. You bring so much joy into my life. I MISS U FACE. The stories you could tell my son. I'd better get copyrite on it..hehehe.. and you best be discreate,lol.. I got stories too ya know.
And yes you nee'r gave me several heart attacts flying at me like that. But what about the times when I'd get up and go to the kitchen, just to find Jimmy.Shills,Count and Whinty laughing their ass's off in front of the fridge. gasp in horror as I opend the fridge to find you (all of 2 yrs old) sitting in there nibbling on a piece of cheese.. OMG. I thought they guys were gonna laff them selves silly at the sight. I on the other hand didn't think it was all that funny. Of course it was all staged for my benefit, they like to trip me out. They were waiting for me to get up so they could stick you in the fridge. <hahaha>.
Your hair was so blonde and beautiful I couldn't bare to cut it till you started school and that was a tuffie. But going to an Indain School in Az. It was going to be rough no matter how you cut your hair, that blonde hair and blue blue eyes were hard to conseal. It got worse when we moved to the projects in Dallas to be close to the hospital for Amy. That got scary there at the end in 76. It was good to get back to the Haight after that.
So many memories. I'm glad your here Darlin'. I glad your my boy. I couldn't have asked for a better one then you. Your heart is so full of love, you were never mean or a lier or theif, you like to party but you did no harm. Your are wise beyond your years, you always were. I am blessed to have you. Thank you for rolling with the punches with me and loving me in spite of myself. You are so cool. LOVE LOVE LOVE.
MOM

[heifers_calf]

Yes we had some times I remember getting married inthat indian school when i was five ta two girls in Arizona i didnt have much prob there except with the chunk of turquise in my ear which turned out to be a chunk of green playdoe.And then the time in sf when you couldnt find me thaught i was playing hide and seak.you found me with the three naked girls in the closit.Hey i did well for a 3 year old NO?When wwe got to Texas the kids all called me The Fonze cause i was the only kid with leather jacket ar 5&6.and i did learn to roll with the punches and kicks NO ONE fux with me nowaday Bad enough to kick your ass but too kind to do it. I HAVE THE LOVE I AM LOVED AND I SHOW MY LOVE. EVERYINE would be too lucky to have this woman in there lives She is LOVE INCARNATE

[shameless_heifer]

Growing a boy into a man is a long journey, with many trials and tribulation to master.
Learing first to crawl before taking that first step. Your learning came in leaps and bounds. From the first time you toddled up to the beer keg with your cup and drew your first beer at two and rolled your fist doob, at three. You walked at 9 months and couldn't be held down. The road I was on lead you to see and experience many strange and exciting things.Your eyes were wide and drank in all around you.
The insight you recived from your experiences are what made you who you are today. You were the pride of Underhouse. The little Prince. You were quite the kid ya know. If I can I will post a pic of you when you were 5 with all that blond hair wearing your overalls. I bet Cin hasn't seen that one, hehehe. Love ya
mama

[heifers_calf]

All the place weve been and the strainge people we met on the way what a wondeerfull life experiance i have been enjoying so far.That is why hailstorming <roofing> became such an awsome job i was never in the sme town for more than three month for the last fifteen years I have seen much done more than most and wouldnt chainge none of it cept for the fate of my sis.But thats another thread intirely.Ive been there and ive done that without the riches that most men strive for im rich with love for all. I hope more people learn from the past experiances theyve had and can use them to strengthen there bond with humanity and not use it as a shield to guard againt the masses.Jump in the mass and frollic in the confusion yu will caome out of it inlightened.

[gate68]

What did the angels teach you,how to sell speed or how to beat the shit out of people who got in their way?They were and are a gang,just like the Krips or the bloods...

[shameless_heifer]

Gate,
I don't know how close you got to the Angels. The ones we knew and were tite with were some of the coolest people I met. I'm sure it's different now or even in the 80s'.
The ones that were around the Haight were pretty cool, they help protect the neighborhood. When I was PG with my son, they treated me like a queen. After he was born, they loved him and treated him like he was theirs. My ole man was friends with several of them.They did not take any shit, but on the norm, they didn't start any either, unless prevoked. There were renegades of course that were damn mean, but that's in any large group of people. But to me when they came to my house, they were polite and wiped their boots. When I was in some of their houses, they were clean and organized. They had ole ladies and kids and some had jobs, not all of them did drugs or raped pillaged or stole.
Sonny Barger wasn't a tirant, He was pretty smart to hold together a large group like the Hell's Angels. They had their own type of justice. They did good for some of us. They have the Christmas Toy Drive, and other benefits to encourage motorcycles. I suppose looked at in a certain way, that even a curch congragation could be call a gang.
I don't agree with a lot of their methods, but on an average they weren't as bad as portrayed, But this is only my oppinon and what I experienced. Others may see a drifferent side.

[Nathan11]

Shameless, that story was amazing.
I had no idea all this went on.
Wow.

[heifers_calf]

Its all about a stereotipicall veiw NO ONE knows the real deal unless they have been there or seen it for themselves theres a lot of things you hear and assume to be truthes or half truthes if you didnt know these people and you allready have an opinion of who or what they are.THATS WHATS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY. Hes a bad guy cauese he got greasy jeans and tattoos,or shes a slut cause she got on a low cut tigght dress and clear spiked heals. WHO SAID SO YOU WHO ARE YOU WHAT5 HAVE YOU DONE FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU. YOUR COMUNITY.<a derogitory question not inteded to any one person> Im about open mindedness.Ive known a lot of people a lot worse than any of the angels i grew up with.Mean black hearted people who dont care of anyone or anything but dope money or power over another person.And they were no paart of any gang loked just like anyother dude or chic on the street. TV sure has implanted a lot of false imiges in our minds youve seen stories.That doesnt cut it you have to have lived it .I can say ive been there ive done that I did what i could to help others in any way it is in my means (One day a strainger will knock on your door a poor man in ragged clothes and long hair a hairy beard upon his face a hungry soul looking for food and shelter for the night .would you help this vegabond ? or would yu turn JESUS away from your doorstep?)

[homebudz]

I know a number of angles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,damn fine folks.

[shameless_heifer]

I can tell you one thing about the Angels I knew, no one messed with me. The pimps left me alone and so did the pushers. I could walk Haight St. day or night and I never feared, I knew there were ones watching and I would be safe.

Even when Cliff and I split the sheets, they took care of me and Jom. They never tried to do, or made me do anything. They were just there to make sure I was not hassled. I remember when The Angels Cleared Haight St. after Super Spade was murdered in front of the fish n chips store on Haight. The Angels and Galloping Goose rode together down the St. on their Harelys. Bustin' skulls and removing the rift raft. They were on a mission to seek and distroy. They started at the entrance of Golden Gate Park, there at Haight and Stanyon. They line themselves across the St and on the sidewalks and rode down Haight with a vengence. Most everyone had gotten the word to stay off haight st., so the only ones out there were the husslers, pimps and pushers. All the hippies had gathered on hippie hill and watched the shit come down. The bikers liked the hippie chicks and their free love, so they kinda took care of them in ways. I was sixteen I think when that happened maybe 17.

After the Biker's got done with the pushers and moved down the block, the Piigs came with their helmets and clubs, beating what was ever in their pathway. At that point, no one was safe. We all kinda stayed huddle up there on the hill afraid really to try to leave and go our homes. I would have to say we were almost held captive there in the park. Not knowing if the Pigs were going to come into the park after us hippies. we stood together and chanted and prayed for us to be freed. The park was surounded by pigs, we dare not try to break free and run.
Every one joined hands in a circle, well all the men anyway. The men put the women and children in the center and incircled us. We ohm'd and prayed some more and we could hear the distruction on our beloved st. The street that love built.
We were lucky that day. The pigs didn't come after us. We danced and sang in celabration, we gave thanks to the Creator that we were spared this time.

[gate68]

..and they became angels cause they wanted to do good in the world.I've met quite a few.We got along fine,but there were boundaries.I don't judge a person by their skin,clothes etc.,but I do judge them by the groups they join and the image they want to portray.I never needed protection from the pimps and pushers,nor wanted it.
The Mescularos ,an angels sanctuned group(you have to have permission to wear 3 colors) used to control most of the speed in this area,the h.a.'s sold it up north.Harleys aren't cheap and not all angels are bank presidents.You can say it's the individual but this is a group.

[shameless_heifer]

When I was 16, I did need a form of protection from the dangers of being alone on the streets of a city I didn't know.
Everyone at the table has brought something to share. There in Maya in us all. How we choose to live and what we live by are our lessons to learn. Our mistakes to learn.
A baseball team is a gang. Any organization can be called a gang. There will be good and bad mixed in the lot, but for the good they still exist.
I can only speak from a womans point of veiw. You feel as you do from your own experiences, I mine. We draw what we will from same experiences. Each drawing what they need. Each need being different. I can only speak of what I drew, you from what you drew. But we both learned and we both grew. Blessed Be. LOVE LOVE LOVE.
SH

[shameless_heifer]

Nathan,
I have so many stories like these, my life experience. What I saw and learned. The pain and extasy of living life. My path has led me on many a journey, good, bad, and some ugly. But I made it through. My hides a little tougher and I can see a lier coming a mile away. I learned to 'see' the signs of trouble coming. Sometimes I face it head on, sometimes I let it pass on. Depending on if there is any good in it to salvage.
When we are at lifes table it's up to us as to what we fill our plate with. What we take from what's set before us. Our choices is what makes or breakes us and how we adress them. I choose to heap my plate with LOVE LOVE LOVE, but to keep the balance, I also take my share of peas, I may not like them, but they'er good for me.
Blessings sweetie.
SH

[gate68]

and the peace corp and greenpeace could be called a gang,but what is their mission and what is the mission of the angels.I believe there is inherit good in all.Manson even had his good points,but as a whole the family was not good for society.The angels tried to do some p r work with toys for tots a few years ago but their actions came to a head last year in Vegas with the violence.They are known for their bad boy image and those who choose to join do so for that reason.They were part of haight and the hip culture.Hell Sonny was in a few movies,hung out with Janis,but they were far peaceful.

[shameless_heifer]

We'll need our warriors when the shit comes down.

[TimothyLeary]

This is some far out stuff man, pass the roachclip.

[sugarmaggie]

This is some far out stuff man, pass the roachclip.
Isn't it though?? Ahh..I always love your stories Mary, how is the book thing coming along?? This is a great thread...lovin' it...:)

[gate68]

We'll need our warriors when the shit comes down.
We have warriers now.You call them the pigs.We also have the military.We have too damn many warriers already.
What happened to peace and love?I guess their not enough.

[heifers_calf]

If it wasnt for the wariors the timmid and weak and old and very young would have noone to stand up for ther rites as human beings they would be looked over by the corperation big wigs who dont see them as part of the prosperous machine.they would be cast aside with the rest of the rubbish.and the vulturs of sociaty would pick them clean.

[gate68]

If it wasnt for the wariors the timmid and weak and old and very young would have noone to stand up for ther rites as human beings they would be looked over by the corperation big wigs who dont see them as part of the prosperous machine.they would be cast aside with the rest of the rubbish.and the vulturs of sociaty would pick them clean.
Come on,we are talking about the angels aren't we?They're going to help me stand up to the big corperations?They are a big corperation.Do they stand with the field workers?How about the blacks?Have you ever even met a black angel?How many joined in order to help old people or thought to themselves "if I become an angel I can distribute toys?I stand up for the timmid and weak and old but I don't carry a knife or a gun.That would just make me another pig.As far as the very young,I just kinda laugh at them.They're young,they'll get it....and what do you mean the rest of the rubbish?They're not rubbish.
peace

[heifers_calf]

you can readinto it whatever way yu want it doesnt matter what anyone say about what ,there is always some one whos gonna see it in a differant light than you yu got your oppenion and i have mine you want to argue about bullshit sokay with me i dont mind but dont take things out of context and try to use them against me it dont fly DONT BE HATE-EN its all about whats inside show show yur guts

[heifers_calf]

Come on,we are talking about the angels aren't we?They're going to help me stand up to the big corperations?They are a big corperation.Do they stand with the field workers?How about the blacks?Have you ever even met a black angel?Yes i have as a matter of fact.and he told me they call them bats. LOL

[gate68]

I got whatevered!Your supposed to stop talking after doing it though.Oh yea here's my guts can you see them?
I guess people who carry weapons are really there just for the love...and the speed problem around here is just their way of showing it....keep plugging your book

[shameless_heifer]

Gate,
Are you saying because there are some Angels that sell speed the whole Club is evil and rotten. And are you saying we souldn't have the right to bare arms, for our own protection. We of the 60's faught to save our diminishing constitutional rights, like: freedom of speach and the right to protect your home and family. I do not condone the use of any man made drug. I dispise what it does to the youth of amerkia, but dealers come in all walks of life. I also despise the need that brought ones to be on that path. It leads only to distruction and loss. I walked that path many moons ago, I can say.
I dont think that the Angels were the real issuse of this thread, just a rememberance of times gone by, when people and attitudes were different. I think being in the city has a lot to do with so much violence, too much energy in one aera and most of it is negative energy, as people and the earth are discontent with the way things are going. My intent here was not to challange, only to remenise.
Why the anger Gate, there has been no harm intended here. If you have a personal problem with the Angels maybe you should take it up with them. Maybe they don't realize that it upsets you to hear good things about them and they should stop selling speed to the kids and get jobs so when you hear something good about them you can agree and it wont upset you when and if I speak of them in the future.

[MattInVegas]

Are you talking about the Well known "Hell's Angels"?????
These guys are part of OUR fucking team!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every Christmas for as long as I can remember, these guys do the same thing the US Marines do. Collect Toys for the unfortunate. One of them MAY have collected my daughter's Teddy Bear one Christmas! Otherwise she would have only had my love. For a child, that just isn't enough.
Thanks again to whoever helps someone else.

[gate68]

Right to bear arms!I guess living on the Haight in itself doesn't make you a hippie.The same as distributing toys doesn't make you non-violent.

[shameless_heifer]

Gate,
Please don't callange my integrity. Being a hippie was not all love and hippie beads. We had to fight!! We were under attack. I don't know where you were in the 60's, but I was right in the middle of Haight Street getting my knee cap busted by "King and Christianson' for walking down the street minding my own biz. Along came Sonny Barger on his way back to Oakland, with a few of his budz stopping to see why the pigs were beating a 17 yr old girl with their nightsticks.

When Sonny and his budz pulled up the beat cops stoped beating ( ever wonder why they were called 'Beat' cops). I laid there crying holding my knees where they had bashed their batons across them. I couldn't stand up and one of the dudes ( Maury) picked me up and sat me on the back of his Harley and took me to his Ole' Lady "Chopper" and she popped my knee cap back into place and put ice on my bruised body. I stayed with them for a coulpe of weeks and they took care of me. They were very good to me and asked nothing from me. I met several Angels during that time and in later yrs. Some of them Reaked and were hostile trying to push me and scare me, calling me Fresh Meat. Chopper, the one that had nursed me back to health handed me a cast iron skillet and told me to use it if I had too, as she did she looked straight at the dude that was hassling me ( Rowdy) and he backed off.

Blackie in a previous post I was asking, what would the ones in the country do when the shit came down and all the city dwellers came down upon us like locust,. If I remember correctly you posted that you would come watch my back and pick them off or something to that affect. Now if I'm understanding what you are saying, you now say that I'm not a hippie if I bare arms. As to say, own a gun. I own three guns, a 410 over and under my daddy left me, a 20 gauge shotgun and a colt 45. My hubby has about a dozen various rifles and shotguns. We live in the country and hunt,trap and fish for our food. We have used these tools (guns) many times to save our livestock from preditors, we have used them to rid our pathways of poisonous snakes so our babies can play freely in the yard. We have never had occation to use them on a human being or the inclanation to do so. But if under attack and if our family and home were jeprody, I would not hesitate to 'fire at will'. If that makes me unhippiiefied well so be it. I have earned my right of passage and I answer to no man for my beliefs.

Blackie I know you dont really mean to be demeaning or narrow minded and you don't hate me or my 'calf', you just see things in a different light. I have not been in contact with any Angels in 25 yrs., I was just remenising not promoting. Your in a place were you see the all the ugly of humanity and the dregs of society and the injustise of the system. Your have a different prospective then most of us do. Neither of us are right or wrong, we just are who we are. Our paths all lead us to the same place eventualy and there we will face our karma. We all help in our own way and in our own time, we all have Buddah in us, we all have our lessons to be learn. We have all come to this place in this time to connect with what we promised to do on the other side when we devised this plan together.

I don't belive that guns are bad in themselves, what intent that they are used is the issue. Guns, arrows, clubs, sticks and stones, there has always been some type of instrument of distruction/weapon, I don't think we would have survived as a species if we hadn't have had them, we would have all been eaten by a sabortooth tiger or T-Rex (shiver). If I were up against a fence with wild banshee's coming at me I would hope I had a means of defence as I am 5'2" and would be trampled under foot and my babies would be eaten alive. Yes we have gun racks in our trucks but we don't take them out and play with them. It's the way of the west out here. Help your neighbor bring in the crops or build a barn or put a new roof on, cook out and drink beer when the work is done and stand together when the shit comes down. We take care of our own, don't you, doesn't everyone when the chips are down. Ask yourself if you would fire at will if they were bustin' in your doors to do you and your family harm.
That's all I can relate right now.

[gate68]

First you used blackiie's name a few times.I'm sure that was a mistake.


I learned from the Hells Angels and hippie flower children

Bad enough to kick your ass but too kind to do it.

It's these two phrases that I put together that started it.I guess it was probably just the testosterone talking.I don't care whose ass he can kick.
I also contend anybody that belongs to a group that relies on intimidation for it's reputation has got a problem(sounds like many religions).I've known angels and I've known prospects that didn't join cause they didn't want to be part of a group mentality.They were individuals.
I think I said that I'd pick them off at the top of the hill if they made it through the pass.I'm sorry that was purely in jest and i didin't think it would be taken seriously.There ain't no shit coming down.We don't need guns for protection.We also don't need to hunt for our food,but that's another story.The hippie myth is all about peace and love and groovies,but you're right,violence was part of hippie history ,the white panthers had a gun in their emblem and the black panthers openly carried rifles.When I lived off telegraph most of the girls i knew carried knives,but even back then i didn't think of these people as hippies,just street people or parinoid city people,freaks.Some good,some bad.I guess i'm just a pacifest,if given the chance peace will eventually win out.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless Heiffer,
I have been armed to the teeth since back in the day when we lived in a rough neighborhood and I got robbed a coupla times and was worried about my girlfriend (now wife) getting raped. If this excludes me from the Hippie Brethern then I guess I am excluded. From the hippie days I came to the conclusion that there is a small percentage of humanity that is just plain no good and that you had better defend yourself from them. "Better to have a gun and not need it than need one and not have it," the old saying goes. Both our growup kids are proficient with firearms and our son's "Arch liberal COllege type" wife recently became convinced of the necessity of keeping them in the house? They live out in the boonies and it seems a bear came calling. Our son fired a few rounds from the carbine I gave him over the interloper's head and that ended that. There are also some exceedingly NASTY people in his neck of the woods and all an unarmed citizen is to them is an easy mark. Could I kill a human being? Absolutely and without hesitation if it were necessary.
Tundrahopper

[gate68]

maybe you should sell your guns and move to a better neighborhood where your wife won't get raped.Why was there a bear at your son's house.Does he store his food and trash properly?Was it a black bear or a grizzly?I contend dealing with a grizzly it is best to have a gun,but once again I would suggest if his house was that dangerous that he move.Don't put your families in danger.I'll also contend there is a small percentage of people that will do you harm,they go into good neighborhoods and do harm,but the chances are your guns would be useless and there's a good chance they'd be stolen.

[WE1]

Day after day,guns do more harm than good.:(

[peaceful chaos]

about the hell's angels issue, i think theres a good and bad within everything you encounter and you shouldn't judge a whole organization by what a couple of people are portrayed as within that group. for example alot of people believe the police are meant to protect the peace and keep violance down, such as murderers and so forth but theres no denying that within the police organization theres alot of "crooked cops" that are partaking in the vary activities that there organization was sent forth to stop.so i guess what im trying to say is yeah there's some power hungry hells angels out there who only joined the gang to gain that "bad boy" reputation but there might also be some hells angels out there who joined the gang for other purposes aswell.another example is the triads who sell drugs to bring revenue and money to there country to strengthen the economy.

anyways when it all comes down to it be it good or bad just try to keep the peacehttp://hipforums.com/forums/images/icons/newicons/peace.gif

[tundrahopper4]

Gate,
Move we did-but I still kept my firearms. And you are really not "safe" anywhere in this world-just "safer" in some places as opposed to others. I don't have the big emotional investment in guns that some people have in either the positive or negative columns-they are simply tools. I think it comes from those summers I spent up at my grandfather's farm in the fifties. And like any tool you have got to know how they work, how they are to be used, and where their place is-and first and foremost you have to have respect for the potentials you are dealing with. Handling a firearm carries way more responsibility than say driving a car. You should have seen how Grandpa would hand me that old .22 and instruct me just where to point it and what to avoid. It's rather crazy that a lot of people who own these things have no comprehension of the physics of the situation. There are definitely some people who should NOT own firearms-ie the unstable and/or chemically dependant. For others it should definitely stay an option. My son? He is not going to be run out of his paradise by anybody or anything.
hope this helps,
Tundrahopper 4

[gate68]

I guess if robert blake hadn't forgot his gun in the restaurant he would have been able to save his wife.It's not you it's them others.We'd be safer if there wasn't idiots with guns out there.Who decides who is capable of ownership?You say chemically dependent.What about pot and alcohol?What about stable sober people that are just careless?What about that church member that shot up his congregation last week,they thought he was stable.The btk killer lived normally for 30 years.Prisoners are even taking guns from the guards and killing judges.Not let me hear some recent stories about how someone was saved by a gun.Also if your son is gonna play woodsman he needs to learn how to live with bears.Bears avoid people.When trash and food aren't handled properly it pulls the bears in,creating problems.Mostly for the bear.This is true at home,and on the trail.peace

http://southerncaliforniawildlands.bravepages.com/

[shameless_heifer]

sorry Blackie, I don't know why I put your name in there, mix up on my part, forgive me please.

Look I'm not condoning what some do with guns. But it's one of the tools my family depends on. When I lived in The Haight, the dream was to get some land and live off of it. Living off the grid takes work and foriging for food and materials. Living in the woods away from the big city factor you have to drive 45 mile to get to anywhere. We also don't like the high prices of the food in the stores, so we grow our own and hunt, trap and fish for our meat. We have guns for that purpose mainly and for protection second.

Tundra, Peace rules but if it comes down, I'm going down fighting. I don't roll over. I never have and I never will. I been raped, I been beat up, I aint gonna be again. EVER.
I dont ever handle my guns unless I'm cleaning them or shooting snakes. I have been forced to shoot a few dogs that were killing my pigmy goats and eating their babies. I haven't had occation to kill a human being but I have shot warning shots a time or two. I guess it's different for us country folk, we look at guns as we look at an ax to chop our fire wood for the winter. Anyway, I'm in agreement with you.
I belive in peace, but I aint no chicken.

[gate68]

and now your killing the snakes.City people move to the country and start killing everything in sight.I use saws and wedges for my wood,much more effective.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless Heiffer,
Big ten four on the never getting took down by the lowlife again! And there is a small percentage of humanity that is WORTHLESS LOWLIFE.
Gate,
Someone saved by guns? Not a recent story but...Well ME and a bunch of my friends. A coupla gorrillas were stomping through us wimpy hippies at a party I threw back in the day? I put a shotgun in their faces and that ended that. Yes I would have killed them if they would have moved. And yes someone would have been seriously hurt or even killed if the stomping would have gone on (I should repost this series of stories based on '69 sometime). You do not hear a lot of these deterrant stories as the news media finds them not to be of note.
Our son and the bears? Well usually they will not approach houses but this fellow was getting bold. "Live and let live" with the bears but you do need to keep food in the house and can't have them banging in the doors. This "Yogi with an attitude" has not been back.
Tundrahopper4

[gate68]

they were picking on you at a party and you had a shotgun.Once again it sounds like paranoia.Also once again,his food must not have been stored right for someone who wants to live in bear country.This bear"with an attitude"was in his own enviroment,being encroached upon and shot at.
reserve your right to arm bears.

[tundrahopper4]

Gate,
I guess there is not much discussing the subject with you but NO-these two guys had just stomped three or four people to the ground on the front lawn and had just broken in the door to get at the rest. Type of guys with arms thicker than your neck and criminal dispostions (both later spent time in prison are dead now). Then I later heard there was a rape and a near rape earlier in the night by these goons. And a few "playfull" punches that ended in TKOs in the livingroom (I was upstairs doing the sex thing at the time). The gal who was raped was never the same and later went crazy. But I guess there is no discussing this issue with you as you seem to know everything already so this discussion is ended.
Good luck out there-you will need it,
Tundrahopper

[gate68]

boy these gun toting excuses get wilder everytime they're told.I don't rely on luck,I've lived my first fifty years in peace and i'll do the same for the next 50.Now go kill something...

[oldwolf]

O shit I can't resist - but I Know I should hehe

Hippies come in all shades and some are some pretty mean motherfuckers
But yeah I agree about not having guns - just so long as nobody gets to use them - but they're here. You take away all the guns from those that are law abiding and guess what - yup only the badies have them
Guess that makes me a real Burchie aye ?
I got put in the FBI files for advocating violent overthrow of the gov. What BS, I did give a speech (right after Kent state and while Univ of Md. had the guard on their campus and several wounded from them - I was at UMBC {Balt. - other campus was nearer DC- College Park) I knew people who had brought weapons - we were going to march on, and take over the armory from which the guard at college park campus came from. Volatile times !! In my speech I said that if you are fired upon you have the right to fire back - and then emphasized that I was a C.O. (conscientios objector) and would rather be killed myself than kill another - but that did not abrogate the rights of others to defend themselves. Told people that this was not a joke - was not a game, it could be life threatening.
And being involved in many other demonstrations I've run for my life when the men in blue came marching with gas and sticks dogs and guns.
It's like I told one state trooper - no I do not give you the right to search my car (at that time we still had some rights - dick was part of the grand tradition to make the sheep fangless in case they finally woke up) but you have a big gun officer and I'm not going to try to stop you but I am saying in front of witnesses that I refuse you the right to search the car (And you'd be surprised at what not giving away your power does eapecially if you know enough to back it up and are civil while doing it)

And having children changed me a bit ... I would defend them.
And No I've never fired directly at another but yes I do have guns - and no I do not hunt but yes I am a land owner and got a wee bit tired of having hunters point that goddamn big muzzle (shotgun only area) at me when I told them they could not hunt on the land I owned and posted. oops - now I try not to go out during hunting season, used to patrol with a rifle which scared the bejesus out of the hunters with only limited distance shotguns. But I get too hot after telling the same jokers that the land is posted - I don't want to threaten or carry a gun -soo - I have another hunter post my land in his name and go after them -BTW he did not believe me about getting weapons leveled at you till it happened to him - and he warned the guy to pull the trigger cause he'd be pulling his next time that happened.
Yeah we can live peaceful and Being a red head, I've had to work at my temper all my life -one of the reasons I was a CO....
Hey let me share this wonderful dream I once had: I was up in N.india near tibet and was being taught marshall arts by a master. He came up with his arms up his sleeves and said "you have been a very good student - I have but one more thing to teach you" and as fast as thought throwing stars were everywhere I was or could move to - I dissapeared - he said "very good" and turned and walked away.
What I got from the dream is you do not have to be where the energy is - you choose to be there.

So I do Not disagree with you gate but damn the brinksmanship that has brought this society in the stages of tumbling down - you don't think the rifraff are going to come out and take and mauraude against any that may have or even just because they can now that authority has broken down (yeah I know it hasn't yet - hurray for Ruby Ridge ! - the constitution is now attacked by the goverment goons)

Ah shit - sorry for the rant - I don't See no right and wrong - just what Is. And I strongly hope when I die I'll still be able to say that I have done physical harm to none.

Hey Blessed be you all
And may whatever Path you walk bring you the lessons you choose by walking it
Blessings on your Way

[gate68]

the baddies have guns now.More of them feel the need for protection then a non baddie.Violent overthrow of the government?What for so we could put a different set of violent people in charge.Replace one gang with another.There was a lot of anger after Kent State,but thankfully it didn't result in us turning into them,or did it?

[shameless_heifer]

My goodness all this anger Gate. We have a right to do as we please as long as we do no harm to anyone. Seeing as you live in a city you probably don't know how to survive in the country/wilderness. I shoot posionus snakes to eep my babies from being killed. I shoot deer and trap hogs and fish the lakes for food. It has been this way since time began. Look what happened to the Native Amercians when their hunting and fishing grounds were taken from them, They Parished (most of them). My husband is half Native American, and I'd like to see you tell him he should not hunt for his food. He is non-violent and minds his own biz. But he would not hesitate to kill a mother fucker that was out to harm his family or misuse his home. Remember guns don't kill people, people kill people. You can kill with a blade of grass, but does this make the blade of grass evil and should we pull up all the grass. A person can fall out of a tree and be killed, should we cut all the trees down. A chainsaw can kill, dang near everything can be used as a killing devise.

If we were to take way the guns there would be something else to take it's place. It's mankind that kills. It's the intent in which something is used that's make it bad, not the utensile itself. Don't blame guns, blame the ones that use them for evil purposes. And that's all I have to say about that :P

[Hairbear]

Such wisdom...........and very good point about the whole balde of grass

[shameless_heifer]

BTW, I am not a city person, I did not move to the country to kill animals, how stupid are you. I have lived here in the country and been farming 25 yrs. I don't think that qualifies me as a city person. The nearest 'city to me has 2,800 people in it. and we just got our first Red Light last year. It's still like the earily 1900 around here except for the automobiles. Dang and I thought we were doing so well, and here to find out I'm/we are horrible killers and we should eat the posion meat at the grocery store and the eratadiated veggies the grocer sells us to feed our babies. Gee, I've had it wrong this whole 54 yrs of my life. Thank you for setting me straight on how I am to live. I don't know how I lived as long as I have with out your wisdom. I humbly apologise for living my life in freedom and lovingness. Please forgive the fuck outta me Gate.

[Hairbear]

wooooow.......never seen this side of you before.....slightly scary seeing as you are such a nice person all of the time.........

[shameless_heifer]

Story on how I was saved by a gun:
My hubby and I were out frog gigging late one hot summer night. We had been to several pools and had about ten biguns with fat juicy legs. We headed over to this one pond in the deep woods and was working the bank for more bullfrogs.
We found this nice little spot and was gigin' a few and I was shinning the flashlight on the water,when a water mocacine went after the frog on the gig and started up the pole. Then all of a sudden there were maybe fifty of them swarming the water and up the trees and banks. My hubby was about three feet away from me and looked down at my feet and there were thee mocacines slithering at my feet towards my legs, he pulled out his 45. and blasted them. I stood frozen in the moment unablle to move from fear. I stared at him and he said "Lets Bail' he said jump backwards, we jumped back and tore at threw the briers, with him fireing as the nest of vipers came at us.

Another time was while we were clearing out some vines and tangled briers to clear a spot for my hubbies barn we were about to hang it up for the night and I went out to find a err' tree to pee' I came across a pack of wild dogs that had me surrounded. There were about seven or eight of them all bearing their teeth at me and growling low. I was again terrified squating there with my 'pants down' afraid to move. I chanced one yell for Lynn and the dogs started closing in. One had me by the arm and the others were about to pounce. I screamed bloody murder and Lynn was there in a flash firing first at the sky, then he started picking them off. By the time he got to me I had some pretty bad bites, but my hubby had saved me. I dont know if either one of us would have made it out alive if he haddn't had a gun.

[Hairbear]

wooow........kinnda off subject but whats a mocacine?......anyway.....

[gate68]

Anger,I'm not the one who needs a gun.You've been out of the city 25 years it's time to relax.Remember why you moved to the country.Actually I just moved into town(pop.5,000).I still get the snakes though.Green Mojave and diamondbacks.Coyotes still run through the yard.They are not a threat.
Guns were introduced to the native people here.Guns brought the settlers and destroyed the buffalo and thinned out the other game.The whiteman brought in the cattle and other farm animals killing the wolf and the prarie dog and other such "pests".
I had a good garden before the move,had a rosy boa that resided there.i believe it kept the rattlers at bay.need to start another,it saves me from having to eat store bought shit.Organicaly raised meat is available.You just don't get the thrill that comes from the violence of killing it yourself,but the cost comes out about the same.

[shameless_heifer]

Hairbear my Brother,
I have lived in some rough places. I have a side of me that is rough. I try to keep this side in it's place till I need it. It is the warrior side of me, the mother tiger protecting her cubs side, which all of us have when we're up against a wall. If I did not have this side of me I could not have the other side of me. It is the contrast that brings wisdoms. The I can say cause I lived it kind of thing. I can see both sides of the coin. I have lived a life of learning the hard way. Through living it. That was my past learning, I choose to live in peace now and have layed my sword down ( but not out of reach). I can get down n dirty and take it over the line and back. I can love the bark off the trees. I can forget it or I can act on it, depending on what buttons are pushed. I am a peace lover, and I try to reason before acting. But where there is no reasoning, I protect. It's like this: If you mess with me or mine, you may not like the outcome. If you need help or healing or food or what ever, it is given freely here with LOVE LOVE LOVE. I have gained much power over the yrs and the Blessed Goddes has seen fit to hand these powers to me. I can be a terror or an Angel, depending on which is called for. I TRY to do good works and spread love love love and I TRY to obey my inner godself. I have the power of self preservation and when I am faced with danger that I cannot reason my way out of, I am sometimes forced to fight my way out. It is instinc and it prevails it the motherhood thingy.

Also I raised four boys and ya don't getum raised by being easy on them. Loving them yes, letting them become weak , no.

My daddy had three girls and raised us like he would have boys, teaching us self defence and how to survive in the wlderness, how to box, how to purify water and eat tree bark if we had to. He taught us to use and repect guns and how to reload or own bullets. He taught us how to stand up for our beliefs and hold on to the old ways. To love one another and to be kind and caring. He also taught us not to take 'no shit'. He taught us about GOD too. I am what I am from living my life as I have. I can be no other as this is why I am here, to be me. I am learning everyday. I learn good things and I come across some not so good things, but it's all part f my life and I have no other choice but to live it and learn and grow.

[Hairbear]

woow.....have you ever considered becoming a writer.......you have a way with word you get your point across and still have a sence of...."What the hell is she on about?"(not to be offenceive)you seem to have a very Loveing family you should be prowed....as im sure you are.....and i think it is cool that you have a father who would teach you that kind of stuff.....im not saying i dont love my father but i wasnt taught much by him....i teach my self most things...but anyway.......

[shameless_heifer]

Good Grief. I don't walk around holding a gun in the stores or whatever. They are securely locked up in their proper place. You have taken this way beyond what it should have been taken. Lets just agree, we have the right to have our own beliefs and our own truths. I belive in our RIGHT to have them, but as to who gets them should be more tauntly supervised. I dspise killing I don't do it mindlessly. I also dispise doing dishes but I do them out of necessity. I hate pulling weeds too but I do it so my flowers/veggie/fruittrees and Berries, may live a long and healthy life. Should I not do as much for my children and their children. I am speaking as a mother and grandmother. Would you mess with your granny, would she not whoop your butt when you were naughty.
If the wolves were killing your livestock would you not run to defend them. And what would you use to run them off. A good talking to?????. I'm just saying there is a time and place for all things. Like I said before. Guns do not kill people, PEOPLE kill people. A gun is a harmless object untill someone uses it for evil intent. It is not the peice of metal that is the killer, it's the person that has it in their hand.

[shameless_heifer]

machacin is probbaly closer to the spelling. I don't know..lol.. I cant spell worth a diddly. But it is a big fat posionus snake the lives out here and it's deadly. They are water snakes and swim in the lakes and ponds. The have hundreds of baby snakes that are more deadly then their parents. They hang out of trees anf fall on passers by, or getcha on the banks. They are mean and ugly. Big and vicious, gives me the willies to think about them. We have good snakes too and we don't harm them. I swat misquitos too and kill fireants. I also spray for Hornets and Wasps that may harm my babies.

[shameless_heifer]

Hairbear,
I have a book that is in edit right now, about my time in the Haight. Of course now that I thought it was finshed I realized it was only the begining of what is to become a trilagy. I have been 'writing' since I was 8 yrs old. I wrote poems and stories, later I started writing facts and then I started a line of childrens books about my hubby (the farmer) and all the animals on our farm, the star being our little chuaua "Skipper Dale". I have seven of those finished. I am also working on my Book Of Shadows, with recipes for making soaps, candles, lotions and potions and how to bless your craft. I have no formal writing skills. I just write what my mind sees and how I precive it. I will probably write as long as I can't type, as I can no longer hold a pen in my hand every long from surgeries. At any rate, it's not the writing that holds me back. It's getting it published that's difficult. I dont have the green energy to put forth at this time. Maybe someday.

[Hairbear]

Woooow......very Groovy.....and now i know what that snakething is to....you learn somthing mew every day........

[Flight From Ashiya]

Hi Shameless Heifer . Hi Hairbear.

Thanks for your facinating reminiscences of Haight Ashbury.
Like HairBear - I too am a Brit.
We never had anything like Haight Ashbury. (Maybe Woburn Abbey!!!).

Shameless, did you ever meet these guys .please see photo below:

Thanks.


http://www.herbgreenefoto.com/gallery/grateful_dead/1960s/gd-60s-05.jpg

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
"moccassin" I believe the spelling goes. Been reading your stuff this last hour and it could make a pretty decent movie. Have you ever thought of putting something like a DVD together? It is possible with current technology.
Tundrahopper 4

[shameless_heifer]

Tundra,
Thanks for the spelling. Yes I have been thinking of turning my book(s) into a movie. I have even tried to do a manuscript. Like I said before I have no formal writing skills, only stories to tell, of my life experiences. I was thinking to day, yes, I do think, that I might want to look into home publishing and bind my own books and distribute them myself. Publishers are so expencive and copyrights are the same. The writing take most of my free time. To start a new project like trying to learn how to accomplish this. There are several things I will need to get started, to do desktop publishing. I need software that manuscripts and SPELL CHECKS, lol.
I would love to see my book a movie. Maybe someday, if I'm so Blessed.

[shameless_heifer]

Merry Meet Flight,
I'm not sure if I have run across the ones in the picture, If you could clue me in as to what time frame they are in and their location, it may joggle my memory. I was there from 66' to 77' on n off, mostly on. I have seen this picture before. Ahhh yes Pink Floyd. I don't ever remember seeing them on the streets but mayhaps in the Park on Hippie Hill. Or in a doorway sharing a bottle inna bag.

[Hairbear]

i think you are blessed enough to get the chance to make your book into a film......it would be very good im sure......i would suport you in the whole film thing but alas i cant for i have no money to aid you with....but hay what you gonna do..............

[shameless_heifer]

Hairbear My Brother,
When the time is right, the green energy will be availble, if it is the will of the wind. What I think I need, is a ghost writer, some one I could relate the experiences to and they could type it in the way it's suppose to be. I wouldn't dream of asking green from my forum buddies. It will come in my time of need. My hubby will most likely fund me. If I'm real nice to him..lol.. I like to do things myself. When I finely get Christmas paid for in June, I will have the green I need to advance. I do appercieate your good vibes sweetie. Thank you.

[Hairbear]

well thanks i suppose, your 'hubby' sounds like one lucky man....and good luck with the whole paying off christmas thing........i hope you get what you need sooner rather then later.............but all good things come to those who wait i suppose......Good luck with future event.....Peace be to you and your loved ones

[Flight From Ashiya]

Merry Meet Flight,
I'm not sure if I have run across the ones in the picture, If you could clue me in as to what time frame they are in and their location, it may joggle my memory. I was there from 66' to 77' on n off, mostly on. I have seen this picture before. Ahhh yes Pink Floyd. I don't ever remember seeing them on the streets but mayhaps in the Park on Hippie Hill. Or in a doorway sharing a bottle inna bag.

Hi Shameless Heifer & thankyou for coming back to me so soon.

The first photo I put up are of 'The Grateful Dead'.

It is interesting that you said you may have seen 'The Pink Floyd' in a Park or Hippie Hill .Please have a look at the photo below.I think that it was taken in a Park in Los Angeles in November 1967.Apparently,the Floyd were hanging out on the Strip ; at the Hullaballo Club soon to become the Aquarius Theater.
It may have been there that they met a 'Vincent Furnier ' playing with his band 'The Nazz' or was it 'The Spiders'.................Mr.Furnier was very helpful to the young British Acid-Psych Band;especially in light of the lead singer's reluctance to open his lips on'The Pat Boone Show'!!.
Mr.Furnier later became 'Alice Cooper'.
Ha.ha.I like the idea that they may have been "sharin' a bottle in a bag".Spiritually ,on that abortive tour- they probably were!.

I am slowly reading through your articles on this thread.Thanks.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
There is not a lot of money in books these days. Now if you know anybody that is into imovie or Finalcut 4 you have definitely got the material for a GREAT DVD. Some people I know produced a DVD from some old 35mm footage from a celebration I was at out in CO in '72- http://www.woodstockmuseum.com/1st_rainbow.html
If you have or can get access to some photos, films and etc from the day you could put together a slideshow perhaps with your own anecdotes and stories from the day in a voice over narration. And/Or perhaps you could do some interview type things of yourself talking about this and that. If possible you could perhaps walk about the scenes of your adventures telling the stories. Get some musician friends to help out and bingo! You have got a (perhaps) commercially viable DVD. The tricky part is steering clear of copyright violations if you plan on marketting. I guess what I am saying is that the tyranny of Hollywood and Random House is over and that ANYONE with the will to do it can produce a documentary. I came into a massive collection of old family photos and have been doing slideshows for a couple of years now and believe me-it is therapeutic and something I hope my great grandkids will enjoy.
Tundrahopper 4
PS. Check out the "Crumb" movie-it is a virtual "how to" on putting together a personal documentary.
PSS. If you do something like this you might also do a section on you handling your firearms and explaining your view on the subject.

[gate68]

grandparents,5 students,teacher,and security guard killed others in critical condition in Minnesota.Probably volunteers to defend your right to bear arms.Where was their freedom of choice?

[tundrahopper4]

MR Gate;
You seem to have a definite opinion on the subject, here's mine;
A. If guns were banned today and all honest citizen disarmed the criminal underground would have a hundred year supply.
B. Most gun control advocates cite Europe as a model; well America is NOT Europe. Many of the best sorts of people came here but also many of the worst sorts. With all those extra y chromosomes and the like out there the US was fated to be a high crime society from the get go(how many serial killers have you ever heard of operating in Europe? Well we have an estimated 200 out there). Moreover; do we really want a disarmed European type situation? It was precisely this sort of situation that a fellow named Adolf Hitler used to tyrranize and terrorize a society into into accepting his twisted ideology. AND Herr Hitler would have had a much harder time marching his target populations off to the death camps if those populations would have had access to self protection.
C. Gun ownership is a right conferred by our Constituition and an integral part of US history and culture. The Democratic party loses election after election on this one and never seems to learn.
These are my views on the subject and I think I came by them honestly-life in the worst urban areas will do that to you in pretty short order. Now can we agree to disagree?

[shameless_heifer]

Flight,
So much for my memory...lol.. I have met Jerry Garcia on several occations altho the first few times I was unaware of who he was. He was bearded at the time.
I lived in a place in the Haight in 70' that was a high traffic area that catered to Heroin. At the time I was oblivious to the situation. It never crossed my mind.

I had hooked up with a dude named John Kopp after I left Cliff my ole man. He was Tall, blonde, goodlooking and a sharp dresser. I moved in with him and had a nice appartment that we shared with another couple. They seemed like ok people to me at the time. There were a lot of people coming and going. I didn't think much of it, as that was the way of the Hippie.

On one evening while I was finishing making supper, the bearded dude that I mentioned before came in and asked me what I was making that smell so damn good. I told him I had made my special enchaladas. The dude then said that he would like to try my special enchalads. I told him to grab a plate and I would hook him up. We all set down to eat and that's when I found out who he was.

After the meal Jerry said that he had to catch a flight and he enjoyed the enchaladas. He followed me into the kitchen as I carried the dishes to the sink. I was scraping plates as he told me that he thought I was cool for offering him to share our meal. I told him it was no problem and that I enjoyed it. He then reached out and pinched my butt and said "Peace, Angel Face" and walk out of the kitchen. I was quite embarrassed by the pinch. But I was thrilled at the same time.

I didn't see Jerry again untill a year later. I had since moved from that place and John Kopp, after a enlightening experience. The Dead were playing at the Filmore the next and last time I saw Jerry.

[shameless_heifer]

As for the Pink, well LA was my stomping grounds for a time. I was raised in Anahiem and of course Hollywood was the place to be. I often visited the there and lived there briefly on Hanover Street with a bunch of hippies I had met at a Griffth Park Love-In.

I had been an exotic dancer at The Follies in the Mission District on Mission Ave and I danced at The Wiskey-A-Go-Go on Leon Russell's piano. My stage was Samantha. I saw a lot of rock n rollers in my travels and most of them were pretty cool.

Later when I moved into the Good Earth Commune We did a lot of 'road work' for many many bands. We also organized free concerts in Panhandle Park. Big Brother and the Holding Company was one of the bands we were affiliated with, Oceola was one also. We did a lot of work for the Airplane too, such as painting their sound studio on Fell Street across from the Panhandle Park.

When we were 'working' we had free backstage passes and got to hang with the Big Dogs. I remember one time when we were to make Thanksgiving Turkeys for 'a show' with BB and I was to make 25 turkeys with dressing. WHAT!!! Ok I says. I had turkeys in ovens all over The Haight. I had help of course, Little Annie Fanny, Sharrel, Mama Kitty and Diane. It was pretty cool.

While we had backstage passes and the door guards were searching people for drugs and booze, we were let through without a patdown as we were bringing in food and the likes. What they didn't know or didn't care is that we were sumggling in bottles of whiskey, quarts of beer and weed inside the boxes of food.

One of the big things then was nitrous oxide. Everyone would gather around the hose and huff the stuff and get a wild buzz. Unfortunatly for one of our good sisters Capricorn Linda met with a fatal incident with nitrious oxcide and tumbled to her death from the back stairs at one of the houses on Haight Street. Linda was a beautifull soul and she is missed.

[gate68]

kinda like agrreeing to disagree with nixon or bush.I agree we should all try to get along,but where would we be if there wasn't desent.We could have said vietnam was wrong and then left well enough alone.No the argument for keeping guns is a weak one and as long as somebody is vocally supporting them,I will speak out against them.

[tundrahopper4]

Mr. Gate,
In my estimation the argument for honest citizens possessing firearms is backed up both by history and by the current facts; http://www.mcsm.org/usatlott.html
But where did it say everybody has to agree?
Shameless,
I think about it sometimes and wonder how I survived all that relentless partying back in the day (yeah things were pretty wild even out here in the Great White!); Guzzling on this/handfulls of that/toking all sorts of mixed goodies/then driving around town.... I think about it and wonder if there isn't something to the "guardian angel" myths.
haha,
Tundrahopper

[shameless_heifer]

Gate, I want you to know I don't go out and rally for gun use laws. But I do belive we have the right to have them if we need them of a tool. If we don't exersize our rights we will lose them. We have lost several as it is. Each one we lose makes it eaiser for them to take the next one from us, if we do not protest them being taken away. In my opinion Alcohol should be banned, there are more drunk drivers that kill more than guns kill on the average ( not including wars). There are many issuse out there and gun Controll is one of them. I don't think if you took out all the guns there would be less wars and violence, they would just find another weapon to use.

[shameless_heifer]

Thundra, yes it's a small miracal that any of us made it out alive and with some brain cells left. I too belive in Guardian Angels, how esle would I have survived what I did and still have LOVE LOVE LOVE in my heart. I do have my moments where the dark night of the soul creeps in, but on a whole I feel good and try to do good works.

I remember my past but try not to live in it. It's cool to have a place where I can share some of my adventures and learn from others lives and hopes and dreams.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
At the time I recall theorizing that it was all a big cosmic prank and a wakeup call. Doing stuff like mountain climbing on LSD? Whew! Could not recommend it! But somehow it all just sort of happened and seemed right at the time. "Righter than anything I had done before or since" in some cases. Then-for me at least-it all just stopped and there we were facing things as they were before. Well...SORTA like they were before. At least in terms of this hard world. What I carry from all that is...well, "an inner wellspring"-as well as a determination to persevere. AND... a knowledge that this hard burg is not the last word on the situation. Am I making sense?
Tundrahopper4

[Claire]

*smiles*

[shameless_heifer]

Thundra,
Yes, I understand that feeling. It's like you do draw it from an inner well. A well with a wealth of endless knowledge. Like a cool pool of water in the desert when your parched to the core, and there is no moisture to be had outside. You go inside and all is cool and moist, the waterfalls of presents seems to flurish. Where all things are known and are sacred. When things on the outside gets confused and don't make sence, you can just go inside and connect with the spring of wisdom within and come out refreshed. I go there when I feel threatened, when I doupt myself, or am being slandered. I go in and ask, what's happening, what did I do wrong, how can I change it, make it better. I hear the answer telling me I need not do anything but learn my lessons. I come out and feel, like ok, I'm ok, nothing is wrong, it ain't nothing but a thing and all things pass. And when they do pass your left with knowledge. What you do with that knowledge is the lessons youv'e learned and as part of the agreement ,pass it forward.
I have learned to live with myself and all my shortcomings. I am human, I make mistakes. I run my head, I am pushy, I butt in, I'm opinionated. But that is the human side of me, not the spiritual side. When I'm in the Spirit, I am kind,loving and all seeing. When I am human. I tend to be tedious and unbending. I get stuck on issues that are mostly not worth the effort, no ones listening. I get defencive, I am stubborn. My Spirit laughs at my humanity and tells me, Little Flower, you are yet a bud, grow on and become the beauty of Spring. I too then laugh joyously and return from within happy and whole, knowing that it's all a learning prosses and we make our own choices as to what we bring to the table.
Somewhere in my ramblings is a point or two. Maybe it's, Choose your battles wisely. We all have our own battles. It's not weather you win or lose, it's how you play the game. Play fair. Your enemey today my be your child in the next go-a-round or vise a versa.

[tundrahopper4]

Claire,
Peace and love? Yes. But I will defend me and mine against all attackers and will use whatever means necessary to stop the attack. Shameless has been in the same hard type places and come to the same conclusions. Confusing to you? Way it is out there in the real world-sorry. If I would have really taken pacifistic ideology to heart I would not be answering you today-plenty of predators out there and I could tell you some stories.... And I guess I really don't trust ideologies of any sort that require their adherants to override their common sense with platitudes. Still in the wider brush strokes Peace and Love is infinitely preferrable to strife and trouble. Infinitely.... Apache theology has it that there are two gods-one is USSEN and he is the God of Peace and Love and all that is good and worthwhile. The other is nameless and a major pain in the ass, requires massive care so as not to offend, and the author of all human miseries, capricious as all hell, bringer of fortune and bringer of death... a real bad guy. Well guess which one rules this world? And guess which one is a faroff deity that only touches humans from time to precious time? I think the ancient Apache were on to something.
haha,
Tundrahopper4

[gate68]

Claire,
Way it is out there in the real world-sorry. If I would have really taken pacifistic ideology to heart I would not be answering you today-plenty of predators out there and I could tell you some stories.... haha,
Tundrahopper4
and that is why i am dead today,damn preditors.Pacifism works.

here in the real world
Alan Jackson

[gate68]

000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[heifers_calf]

there are times when you have to stand up: weather you need to do it with a gun is questionable at best.
I was riding around with a couple of natives after quite a few drinx at the bar i knew the two we worked together in a roofing co. My crew papered a roof they left exposed for several days and charged them 200$ for doin it , I did not work on that job I was ill that day
After drinkin a couple with the two we went for a ride (toke toke pass)had a few shots from the snops bottel and ended up 30 miles out of town on the red river north And guess what comes up the two hundred dollars iI didnt get none of.Well at this drunken stage they didnt care they were mad and I was their volentier to partake in their anger managment program. One dragged me out by my hair at gunpoint while the other proseaded to pammel my head with his fist both men being rather large 6'2 or so and outwaying me by 100 lbs a peice.I was in dire strieghts even though I am learned in marshal arts my future wasnt looking too bright .they proceaded to beat on my head till i ducked under to protect my face and reseaved a hurendouse ear ringing kick to the cheek and then another as i fell back to the chest wich broke a bone in my chest plate up close to my throat at that point they drug me to the river and dunked my head in the icey dnak waters of the river telling me that "the Red dont give up the dead white boy"At this point i was afraid for my life NO DOUBT so I pulled my gurber blade from its sheath with the intintion of stickin at least one of them just under his groin up and aroud his buttox severing his artery and killing him befor he could make it back 30 miles to town.I pulled the knife and popped the blade with them unawair when i heard out load "'DONT DO IT PUT IT AWAY.DONT DO IT PUT IT AWAY"I was confused cause neather man spoke But i closed my knife put it in my pocket and proceaded to talk my way beg eaven for their murcey pleading them not to do any more I talked my way back into the car and back to town but did not relent untell we made it back to the apartment. There the one with the gun left for more snops i tried doctering nursing my wounds with a wet cloth while the other proceaded to bragg about hi apperant victory over such an enimy that i presented to him saying again that the red does not give up the dead .so i stood up and BASHED in his jaw with my elbow and pinned him to the corner of the couch and proceaded to push his face to the back of his head with a flurry of blows out of extream fear and rage and utter disgust for that peaceof shit mother fucking skum.But it was GOD who told me not to kill him so i did not i let ther four roomates pull me off of his unconsious body .peace

[gate68]

????????????????????????

[drumminmama]

OK, I'm guessing Gate uses 68 because of birth year, putting gate, calf and myself in the same generation.
I personally won't have a gun. probably never will. I guess I could inherit one and have to sell it, but of my own volition? not for me.
I didn't move to the forest/mountains for that reason. Now, in the middle of incorporated Littleton, Colorado, I see foxes on a regular basis and, since we love our open space, the occasional black bear looking for food in this drought. We call DOW and animal control. But if/when I head up the hill, someone in the house is going to need to handle a firearm. With my eyesight, no one wants it to be me. ;)
I am a survivor of violence. I have a really great knife set in my kitchen, that occasionally comes to the bedroom when the vibes are all weird.
getting out to the country requires the ability to do for yourself.
farming? how will you protect the herds from predators? any noise/light rig up will also bother your critters.
eat meat? be freaking honest about it and grow your own. THat requires the ability to kill.
water moccasin? I won't get near one by choice. bad critters.

Chris Rock has a hilarious bit about ammo control: charge $5.000 per bullet and there will be no more innocent bystanders.
Like most good humour, a grain of truth lies within.

I also had my biker days. While one pack tried to get me working at the local all-nude (at 15) the only Angel around stood up for me. I've met Sonny Barger. he is righteous. just not the way I'd do it.
The Angels in 68 were VERY different from the organized drug running in bikerland today. That's true of most groups.
Like the Haight, bikers in the 70s-80s liked the remnants of the hippie chicks.
A comparison to the bloods/crips? maybe. Angel intimidation goes farther, and in numbers, violence isn't needed to get what they want...because enough has already come down, or the public believes enough came down.

Shameless is right. All "tribes" need enforcers. Pacifist groups more so, if they are to literally survive.
Like mama protecting her young.
Even at Rainbow, Shanti Sena circles and removes people. Mostly this is without violence, bit these sisters and brothers can take them down into a hold if need be.
Would you take a rabid coyote down with your hands, Gate?
How bout a methed out neighbor coming through the door? ah, you'd call the cops.
It the sticks, you need to be your own cop from time to time.
If the glimpse of a gun stops methman in his tracks, yay.

a gun is a tool. a dangerous tool and should require lots of training.
I'd love a perfect world where no one needed a gun, but pollyanna took the last train to clarksville and someone bombed the station.

[gate68]

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

[shameless_heifer]

D-mama, Thank you for your contibution. AHHH a ONE that is in the KNOW at last.
Gate your one of the ones that would have been weeded out and plucked from the garden circle.
I'm assuming that's why you don't like hippies cuz they don't need or want your negitivity. You have probably been cast out by your peers and that's why you hang with the younguns.
Good luck to you on your journey to enlightenment Gate. All roads lead to Rome, some paths just take longer to get there. Blessed Be.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
I am guessing that I would not like Mr Gate if I were to meet him-though I could be very wrong. I remember certain "hippies" back in the day who presumed to speak for "us", but seemed every bit as opinionated and rigid in their way as the very thing we were running from when we left our stodgy little hometowns. And these were the ones the media seemed to focus on and hold up as "the idealistic youth of today." Pure bullshit. Oh ideology was there but so to was something infinitely more scary to the powers that were/be. There was spirit.
Tundrahopper4

[gate68]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[shameless_heifer]

Thundra,
It's seems our friend has run out of BullShit. He (gate) is no spokesman for me or my culture. I really don't know where he is coming from. He is neither hip or a hippie and has no room to talk about them. He hasn't payed his dues. But that's his karma and it doesn't affect my life.
I choose not to drink from the same well, for sharing is precious and I still have a right to choose the company I keep. Altho it seems mr gate would have us lose all our rights and lay down and get run over.

[oldwolf]

Whoa slow it down gale

I havent heard anything but another OPINIONATED ((nudge, nudge)) old fart sayin what he believes; in a group that, though we prefer peace, still take to theart the trodden snake flag (Don't tread on me !). All of us are every day living that which we believe strongly enough to act on - (OUCH ! ) - though...... Ahh the mirror shines brightly - need I say more

Lovin Ya

[gate68]

It was a weekend vow of silence.Gumby's idea in a sense..I just wanted to give everybody a chance to show their LOVE LOVE LOVE.Hell,I'm even being drug out of drum circles now and a it's good thing I'm not a "red"...LOVE LOVE LOVE.Now let's talk about tolerence...

I'm a long tall texan
i wear a ten gallon hat

[shameless_heifer]

I try to bring LOVE LOVE LOVE gate. But I will tell you this much my friend. While I'm showing my love to a rabid dog and he bites me everytime I show it, well, out here in the country we'd put the dog down, it's the best for the all and the dog.
I don't live in an ashram, I live in the real world. I work the land and till the soil. I raise the babies and kneed the bread. I care for my animals and I tend my garden.
It was the dream, we all dreamed it back when, that was what we were all striving for. Land to live as we loved, FREE. Free to gather and be thankful for our blessings after the Harvest. Free to breath the clean(er) air and to swim and fish in the waters that Creator has given us. We are the keepers of the land. It is our job to protect it and our families. How do you propose we do this with out our tools.
I never said I didn't love you as a brother, I said I didn't understand you and what you brought to the table. Like many others, I carry the warrior Spirit inside me. Like a Crusader, I will fight for what I hold dear to me. Anyone that says they wouldn't will have their own time of reconning.
I don't know everything, but I do know that LOVE LOVE LOVE (positiveity) will get you further down the road then negitivity. I shine light and love, but don't back me up against the wall, I am MOTHER EARTH, I bring forth LIFE and LOVE. But I also carry a paddle. And I'm not afraid to use it. That's part of love you see. We all must have disapline, we all need correction from time to time.

This is a Flashback forum. This thread has my name on it, I didn't start it.. I was mearly flashing back, and here you come stomping on my memories. You have not been given permission to trample me. I will stand up for what I know is the truth. After all I lived it. It was what I was/am. These are my memories. Why does it upset you so. It's my life. These are the lessons I learned.

[gate68]

Why does it upset you so.

there are times when you have to stand up: weather you need to do it with a gun is questionable at best.
I was riding around with a couple of natives after quite a few drinx at the bar i knew the two we worked together in a roofing co. My crew papered a roof they left exposed for several days and charged them 200$ for doin it , I did not work on that job I was ill that day
After drinkin a couple with the two we went for a ride (toke toke pass)had a few shots from the snops bottel and ended up 30 miles out of town on the red river north And guess what comes up the two hundred dollars iI didnt get none of.Well at this drunken stage they didnt care they were mad and I was their volentier to partake in their anger managment program. One dragged me out by my hair at gunpoint while the other proseaded to pammel my head with his fist both men being rather large 6'2 or so and outwaying me by 100 lbs a peice.I was in dire strieghts even though I am learned in marshal arts my future wasnt looking too bright .they proceaded to beat on my head till i ducked under to protect my face and reseaved a hurendouse ear ringing kick to the cheek and then another as i fell back to the chest wich broke a bone in my chest plate up close to my throat at that point they drug me to the river and dunked my head in the icey dnak waters of the river telling me that "the Red dont give up the dead white boy"At this point i was afraid for my life NO DOUBT so I pulled my gurber blade from its sheath with the intintion of stickin at least one of them just under his groin up and aroud his buttox severing his artery and killing him befor he could make it back 30 miles to town.I pulled the knife and popped the blade with them unawair when i heard out load "'DONT DO IT PUT IT AWAY.DONT DO IT PUT IT AWAY"I was confused cause neather man spoke But i closed my knife put it in my pocket and proceaded to talk my way beg eaven for their murcey pleading them not to do any more I talked my way back into the car and back to town but did not relent untell we made it back to the apartment. There the one with the gun left for more snops i tried doctering nursing my wounds with a wet cloth while the other proceaded to bragg about hi apperant victory over such an enimy that i presented to him saying again that the red does not give up the dead .so i stood up and BASHED in his jaw with my elbow and pinned him to the corner of the couch and proceaded to push his face to the back of his head with a flurry of blows out of extream fear and rage and utter disgust for that peaceof shit mother fucking skum.But it was GOD who told me not to kill him so i did not i let ther four roomates pull me off of his unconsious body .peace???????????????????????????????????????????? ??

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
Well I guess I have come to distrust all ideologues and their ideologies. Now my best friend "Mario" is of the "college liberal" persuasion and will not even consider having a firearm in the house. He lives out in California with all the loose nuts and bolts that have rolled that way since the Gold Rush and seems to really believe that the police are adequete to defend against any eventualities. Mario and I disagree totally on this subject-"Mario, by the time the police come it is too late!"-but he sees it as a "karmic thing." Whatever... I just hope his "good karma" holds. Now my wife "Katie" was once stalked by a psychopath and the police did not get this guy's attention until they threw him in prison. Were my firearms and dogs the thing that kept this fine fellow from kicking the door in and murdering us all like he said he was going to do? Quite possible. I see firearms as "the ultimate insurance policy" that I pray I never have to use.
Sounds like your son ran into some rough stuff-good on him that the judgement call just sort of came. That is called "true warrior on your feet action"-to know just what is necessary and how far to take it. Good on you kid!
Tundrahopper4

[tundrahopper4]

PS.
Katie at San Xaviar ten yrs back. She is an Earth Mother too and the one who keeps things going in this spere.

[tundrahopper4]

PSS. Katie in Virginia City about eight years back-she is from a military family and a crack shot with a pistol. I am a good shooter but Katie is exceptional.

[gate68]

Imagine that ,I'm an earth daddy.I just belong to the wrong group,I don't want to kill people or beat them up.OOOPs ther I go with my right wing propaganda again,no wonder they kicked me out of their circle jerk.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
Maybe you could take Mr Gate for a lap ride then huh? Ah forget it-it's probably what he wants. At any rate-politics.... Now my friend Mario is a far left sixties academic. Our late best friend Mick J was a right wing Arizona Republican. We all got along famously. What really turned me off to left wing politics was how they treated the Vietnam vets when they came back. There were actually crazies going to the airport spitting on these guys-who were after all my friends and neighbors from the same working class neighborhood I came from. A lot of holes in the logic of both of the major schools of political thought in this country. I guess I am an Independant though I find it hard to vote for the party that represents the economic interests of only the top 5% of the population. Now Mario is a multi millionaire and still votes Democratic. People ask him why and he tells them that GOP policies are harmfull to the country at large. Now why is it that people get all excited about what happens in far off lands and pay almost no attention to what is going on with their household incomes? Household incomes are A LOT closer to home. I guess it is just the nature of the beast. Katie is in the healthcare field and what is happening out there with the uninsured is a national disgrace, and the US is the only first world nation with people dying on the streets. Why? Because of someone's crackpot ideology. Can we apply some common sense to these things people? Oh I guess not.... Then the crime situation out there is way out of control... people of Mario's persuasion would have the honest citizen disarm. This would seem to fly in the face of common sense to me.
Tundrahopper4

[gate68]

redneck rhetoric.10-4 good buddy.Lap ride?

[Flight From Ashiya]

Flight,
So much for my memory...lol.. I have met Jerry Garcia on several occations altho the first few times I was unaware of who he was. He was bearded at the time.
I lived in a place in the Haight in 70' that was a high traffic area that catered to Heroin. At the time I was oblivious to the situation. It never crossed my mind.

I had hooked up with a dude named John Kopp after I left Cliff my ole man. He was Tall, blonde, goodlooking and a sharp dresser. I moved in with him and had a nice appartment that we shared with another couple. They seemed like ok people to me at the time. There were a lot of people coming and going. I didn't think much of it, as that was the way of the Hippie.

On one evening while I was finishing making supper, the bearded dude that I mentioned before came in and asked me what I was making that smell so damn good. I told him I had made my special enchaladas. The dude then said that he would like to try my special enchalads. I told him to grab a plate and I would hook him up. We all set down to eat and that's when I found out who he was.

After the meal Jerry said that he had to catch a flight and he enjoyed the enchaladas. He followed me into the kitchen as I carried the dishes to the sink. I was scraping plates as he told me that he thought I was cool for offering him to share our meal. I told him it was no problem and that I enjoyed it. He then reached out and pinched my butt and said "Peace, Angel Face" and walk out of the kitchen. I was quite embarrassed by the pinch. But I was thrilled at the same time.

I didn't see Jerry again untill a year later. I had since moved from that place and John Kopp, after a enlightening experience. The Dead were playing at the Filmore the next and last time I saw Jerry.


That's facinating - Thanks Shameless.

Jerry pinching your Butt is the tail-end (please pardon the expression!) of West Coast Rock Stars Libido.We have to blame too many late-night jams of:"The Hoochie -Koochie Man" & "Got my Mojo Working" in many a lonely Hollywood recording studio for this.
Grace Slick & Jim Morrison had an affair during the 1968 Doors/Jefferson Airplane Tour of Europe.
It sure gets lonely sometimes for Rock Stars.:p

[shameless_heifer]

Flight,
I have often refered to my life as a Forest Gump type life. Sometimes I feel I have lived many many lives all rolled into this one. Perhaps it's because I started so young and lived fast and hard. I pilled up a lot in 54 yrs.
When I finished my first book, it was about 58,000 words and that's just the first yr. in 66 to 67 that I was there. I had to stop and start another one for 68-69 and then there's new books on the communes and what was happening in the 70's, OMG. I don't know if I will ever get all the stories out. lol.. It doesn't matter, you write cuz you can't not write. It just flows like a fountain.
I imagain there was a lot of hanky panky on them tour buses, close quarters and the drugs and booze and all.

Gracie was not one of my favorites.Altho I loved the music. She had an ego the size of texas. She was rude and crass to her fans, even to the point of spitting on us and calling us names. She thought her chit didn't stink and that everyone was lower then her highness. She was around the neighborhood a lot as the Airplane's sound studio was right across the Panhandle Park for our commune. We did road work for them and painted their studio, Black with gold pillers. It looked pretty cool. But Grace had no grace, she was demanding and treated the band poorly, with her insults. I don't think she started out that way. Maybe the fame and drugs changed her. At any rate, she made a fortune.

I hope you have a great day Flight and fare well in the days to come.

[gate68]

"It wasn't long before a lot of Americans became convinced the hippies were just aching to tear down the basic fabric of America. It wasn't just mainstream America that didn't like the hippies, either. Once a group of the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang swooped down on a group of hippies for no other reason than they wanted to. All in all, the hippie-haters pretty much included anyone who thought that believing and preaching peace, love, and toleration of others was stupid. In America that was (and is) a pretty large slice of the population."

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1197

[shameless_heifer]

Hippie Haters??? and that would be you Gate?!?!?
As I recall, the mainstream of the populi had kids that were hippies. Are you telling me that they hated their own kids. As I recall it was rednecks and conservitives that disagreed with the hippies way of life. Like Reagan, he did hate the hippies. I never felt hated, misunderstood yes, but never hated, hunted yes, but again not hated. Maybe it was because I was a girl and didn't have to go to war or burn my draft card. You are anti hippie Gate, I have not heard one constructive thing coming from you. I don't dig you at all. You act like we did nothing but stayed fucked all the time and had no mental capabilities at all. I hope the kids aren't listening to your biased crap. Why do you come to the hip forums as you yourself said you are not hip. Just to poke sticks at us through the fence. Like they use to do on Haight St. Go back to the young hippies forums, some of them seem to like your B.S. It seems counter productive to me. Negitive and insulting. Jelousy perhaps? I don't know. I'll have to do a reading on you and post it here I guess. If you can't come in here and show some respect you need not plop youself down in our living room and chit on our memories.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
Be great if you could find a publisher-or better yet a movie producer? I think you are among the lucky few who have REALLY LIVED, and nothing any "artiste" out there could ever make up could hold a candle to the real deal story.
Tundrahopper4
PS. And the lifeless get really wigged out when confronted with the real deal. Like my son recently made me pull all my photos of him and his family off my photo web site because he did not want "weirdos in basements" gawking at his incredible lifestyle. He might be correct.

[gate68]

"It wasn't long before a lot of Americans became convinced the hippies were just aching to tear down the basic fabric of America. It wasn't just mainstream America that didn't like the hippies, either. Once a group of the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang swooped down on a group of hippies for no other reason than they wanted to. All in all, the hippie-haters pretty much included anyone who thought that believing and preaching peace, love, and toleration of others was stupid. In America that was (and is) a pretty large slice of the population."

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1197
this was quoted from this site and i don't have a basement

[shameless_heifer]

I have put in an inquiry in a few places. Tundra, I think people would enjoy a plain unpolitical depiction of what the average teenage girl experienced in the middle of hippiedom usa 1966. They say to write what you know and I knew The Haight. I knew what I saw felt and experienced in those 11 yrs. It was an exciting time, all kinds of things were happening at once. The Viet Nam war, Women's Rights Movement, The Equal Rights issue, Black Panthers, White Panthers, the Love-ins'Be-in and Human Be-ins, The Rock and Roll Revelution, Free Love, Free LSD, Free food, Free housing, The Diggers, the communes, The Drough Store Cafe, Eastern Religion. It was all poping at the same time.
What I can recall of it was like nothing else ever experienced. To explain the emotions, truths would be like try to describe the taste of a peach to someone that only tasted oranges. Though words can take you to places never before dreamed. The imagaination can be as vivid as being there back then.

It would be nice if publishers/directors and producers were pounding at my door...lol..
I do thank you for the encouragement Tundra, it's nice to know someone is interested in an old hippies ravings.. Brightest Blessings.
SH

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
Some pretty heady days allright-even out here in the middle of nowhere we were hearing about it. And when "the wave" hit finally did hit about '69 it was like something never seen before or since-and probably nothing like it will happen again. Funny that over in Europe the hippie thing is seen as a positive phenomenom and is studied intensely. Here where it started? Well the subject is still rather "verboten". And California was at the heart of the matter- and you were there? "Was there" counts for a whole lot! I think you have something of historical importance to say. You might try some European publishers.
Tundrahopper4

[shameless_heifer]

I don't have pics of my babies online either, I do have one of my Man Child ( heifer's_calf) Gotta love that boy, for his tenasity, and heart. I haven't met many second generation hippies. The ones born into it and contenued the life style in adulthood. That reminds me of a story.
As you may have read in some of my posts, I was a Hippie Hill regular and on sunny mornings I would pack up me n my boy ( 13 months old) and we would go to the park and enjoy the beauty and splendor of life. I would sometimes play my guitar and Jom would dance and sing, his blond hair shinning in the sun and his blue eyes twinkling as he would remember the the rifts and change his steps with the beat. On one of these days on out outting, as we played in the sun. An old couple, I'd say passed their 60's, were sitting on a bench watching us play. I had seen them before sitting watching the children. They were a sweet old couple. They seemed particularly interested in Jomie as he was as bright as a shinning star. After a while they approched me, with kind faces. They asked me about my boy and where his daddy might be, as I was usually by my self when I brought my boy to the park. I told them I was divorced and I was raising Jom on my own. What they said after that was heart breaking.

The lady told me with tears in her eyes that they had lost thier two sons in Viet Nam and they never had a chance to have grandsons. They then made a preposal to me that, if I would have had shoes on I would had fallen out of them. They ask me to let them adopt my precious baby boy and they would pay me TWO million dollars for him. As my mouth gaped open at such a thought as selling my felsh and blood, I must have turned several different shades of color as the contenued their preposal. They told my that I could stay with them and be Jom's govnerness and live with them at thier home and still be a mother to him. They said they had no heirs to pass their estate to and that Jom would be a wealthy man someday if they were to adopt him. I was so shocked, I could only think, Sell my Baby" No Way". I did feel sorry for the sweet old couple and how lonely they must be, and how terrible it must be to lose their sons in that horrible war. But I could not sell my child. I didn't care about money. They were very sad as I packed up my gear and my precious son and went home. I never forgot that old couple and what would have happened if I had taken them up on their offer. All the advantages he would have had in life. But then I thank GOD I kept my boy because he has brought me more joy, pain and love then any amount of money ever could. I didn't see the old couple in the park again. Maybe they found a new boy and they got their wish. I hope they did.

[gate68]

beating "natives" up makes you a second generation hippie?

[shameless_heifer]

WTF are you talking about now, your ignorance astounds me. If your reffering to when MY BOY was attacked and he defended himself as they were "THEY" trying to kill him, and he was hard pressed to kill his attacker he reframed himself and his higher intellect took over and he let it. That my friend was a good deed. And GOOD on my BOY. What? you say he's not suppose to defend his self.. you are an idiot. (judgement call).
I don't know if you read or just glance at posts and then come back being an asshole. Your getting on my nerves. I know my crede is to HARM NONE, but where does that line begin or end. I am trying to find my higher self when it comes to dealing with the likes of you. Your like a fire ant that sneeks up and bites you on your butt and hides to come out and bite you again. An irritating insect. You bore me with your BS. I will not respond to you in the future, you not worth the energy, like they use to say in the communes, your a energy rip off. Be gone insect. I see no need for you here.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
Wanted to buy your son then? And it sounds like they wanted to buy you along with the package. A lot of people would have considered that "an offer too good to pass up". A lot of people are fools.
Vietnam? Well I never had to go but I did do some partying with guys just back on the old Minneapolis South Side and read everything I could find about that mystery. It's a hideously complex story but some conclusions I came to were; A. The NVA were anything but "the good guys" and their eventual victory DID prove to be a disaster for the peoples of SE Aisia. B. The war was prosecuted poorly by the majority of US forces and this was largely a problem of leadership. C. The opposition had to have had spies in the highest levels of the US camp. D. The US set itself to a nearly impossible task from the get go-to the point where it could be said that "the US blundered into a Combloc trap"- and the political restraints that developed on going after the enemy outside of SV made the task impossible. E. The "Vietnam War" was really "WWIII by proxy" and the Soviets and Chinese were heavily involved. There was a real terror that the whole thing would spark a global war and these fears were well founded. There was in fact actual combat between US and Soviet/ Chinese forces but these incidents were kept quiet by both sides.
Not popular points to be arguing at hippie parties! And I used to defend hunters and hunting when none others would... But the hippies I knew were a pretty open minded bunch and I was never asked to leave (now college students tended to be assholes and you were bound to be screamed down and asked to leave if you did not agree with their world view). I think the majority of the people I hung with had that rare ability to see all sides of an argument-something sorely lacking in this day and age.
Tundrahopper4
PS. Ignore that troll and maybe you could get ahold of the moderator and get him banned off your threads.

[shameless_heifer]

I lost a husband in viet nam in 66 he was bearly out of boot camp, he was 19. I later married a vet' that had Post Trumatic Stress Syndrom and I was beaten and terroized for eight yrs. He finely took his own life in 84. I was not married to him when he killed himself. I knew many boys that came back messed up or missing limbs and brain cells. I was so young when the war broke out. I knew it was wrong, but I really didn't understand the magnitude of it all untill later when I was in the Haight and I became aquainted with what it was all about. The peace rallys and demonstrations and all the opinions f the older crowd. I learned, I grew.

[tundrahopper4]

Shameless,
Bad business all around and nobody but nobody wanted to go after the Tet Offensive. Still... well I was a whole different person after the summer of 1970. Like I had been through a real drug fueled and revelational summer and was sort of "starting from scratch" as it were. I found myself really able to put myself in other peoples' heads. Then I started meeting these vets at parties on the Old Southside? Well some of these guys were real titans and hardly the stereotype of "the damaged Vietnam Vet." Transformed-like I had been-only by wholly different means. I was half joking at a party that maybe I ought to volunteer and got told in no uncertain terms that this was a bad idea. Wish I would have stayed in contact...at any rate, the story took on a whole different spin when it was told by a few guys who had actually been there and really... there was something to piss off ALL sides of the American Political argument coming from the vets. A mystery that has yet to be unravelled happened back there, and it might not be for another generation that an objective view of our amazing era ever comes together.
Tundrahopper4

[gate68]

Ignore that troll and maybe you could get ahold of the moderator and get him banned off your threads.
Why is this her thread and why can't i speak against violence on a hippie site?

""But the hippies I knew were a pretty open minded bunch and I was never asked to leave (now college students tended to be assholes and you were bound to be screamed down and asked to leave if you did not agree with their world view""

""Be gone insect. I see no need for you here.""

[WE1]

It took many of us years to decompress from our service in Vietnam. Some of the more unfortunate vets are still fighting the war every time they close there eyes. PTSD is a unique neurological disorder that can cause a great deal of anxiety and depression;with its effects often increasing with age. Depending on which type of PTSD of the three generally recognized variants a physician or other health care professionals diagnosis confirms. Paranoia,anxiety,fear and especially violence will be prevalent if alcohol and other street drugs are involved. Often causing feelings of anxiety and guilt followed by emotional rage;that is turned on and off like a light switch. I think the resentment and outright hatred from friends and especially our loved ones that many returning veterans received upon returning home was cause for a great deal of emotional turmoil that will remain with us in varying degrees for the rest of our lives.

[shameless_heifer]

WE1,
Yes I do agree. When I was married to Daivd, my third husband in 73. He had a medical discharged from the Navy. While he was on The USS Enterprize, a carrier ship. He was blown overboard by a landing plane. He injured his back and they discovered spinal bifida, he was discharged and sent home after 18 months in the Navy. He as many vets returning turned to drugs and alcohol as an escape from the reality of what they had endured.
David was A-Typical. He was in and out of the VA, mainly to get the pills they handed out in major quanties. He also had srinks to evaulate him every three months. We had many a meeting with so called heard doctors. When he'd beat me up or terroize me I'd leave. Only to have the docs call me and say thet David needed his family. My son was four and I had a baby on the way. I stayed out of duty. The episodes got worse as time went on. After the baby came and she was diagnosed with CF, he became even more violent. They had to put him in a sike ward. I left and got a place of my own. I was working at the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation and living my life. When he ,David, was released and I would not have contact with him, he would down a hand full of pill with a bottle of whiskey drive by and shoot at my house with my children asleep inside. The police were not much help and the VA was unsympathic to my plight. I was forced to move out of state and returned to the Haight where he was not likely to find me.
I have known others that 'were there'. that had learned different lessons and grew from the experience and became wiser from the knowing. They used their knowledge to help others and to bring light. It's funny, not haha funny but in a strange way, how we each bring something different from similar experiences.

[heifers_calf]

beating "natives" up makes you a second generation hippie?
Gate you are useless to try to say anything to beating up a ntive that took me to the river to drown me and kill me only by the force of the creater did i not protect myself to the fullest of my abbelities and kill the worthless peice of shit no matter what race he is.I go out of my way to oviod trouble i do not like violence,I WILL PROTECT ME AMD MINE w/force double talk or a fire arm.you cant see the forest through the trees your blinded by your prejudists and there is no use trying to enlighten the darkness in you.YOU HAVE TAKEN ANY AND EVERYTHING OUT OF CONTEXT TO BENIFIT YOUR TIRADING INSULTIOUS MANNERISM .I feel sorry for you good luck in your closit.Its not worth the hassle explaining ourselves to you.Dont have nothing to prove but i have a lot to shaare to badd so manny people are so close minded.Open up and see the rest of the word The creaters light shine an your hatred and expose it for what it is Fear

[gate68]

Gate you are useless to try to say anything to beating up a ntive that took me to the river to drown me and kill me only by the force of the creater did i not protect myself to the fullest of my abbelities and kill the worthless peice of shit no matter what race he is.I go out of my way to oviod trouble i do not like violence,I WILL PROTECT ME AMD MINE w/force double talk or a fire arm.you cant see the forest through the trees your blinded by your prejudists and there is no use trying to enlighten the darkness in you.YOU HAVE TAKEN ANY AND EVERYTHING OUT OF CONTEXT TO BENIFIT YOUR TIRADING INSULTIOUS MANNERISM .I feel sorry for you good luck in your closit.Its not worth the hassle explaining ourselves to you.Dont have nothing to prove but i have a lot to shaare to badd so manny people are so close minded.Open up and see the rest of the word The creaters light shine an your hatred and expose it for what it is Fear
maybe if you quit calling them "natives"?

[tundrahopper4]

We,
That's a thing I heard and still hear a lot-that the homecoming was in ways worse than the war. I do remember everybody-right and left-dumping on the vets. Why? Well the righties did not want to acknowledge that the problem was with the leadership (my friend M-- will not join the VFW unto this day because of some WWII/Korea sniping about how he "lost" his little war). And the lefties? Well sometimes I think they just wanted to justify their student deferrments and dodges. There was a hardcore pacifist and communist presence-mostly centered on campus- that painted the vets from "immoral" to out and out "Yankee warmonger pirates." They were all nuts and they were all very wrong. The truth about what really happened in Vietnam is out there for anyone wanting to dig...
Heiffer,
Kind of like the parable of the blind men touching the elephant and coming to all sorts of different conclusions about what it was?
Heiffers Calf,
You are to be admired for your courage and skill in getting out of that hairy crunch. And you are to be admired for your restraint-I do believe I would have done some killing in a situation like that. Your Mom seems to have prepared you well for this mostly beautifull/but sometimes beastly world.
Tundrahopper4
PS. Calf-ignore the troll (unless you really want to get in a pissing contest). I mean-what does he ever offer?

[drumminmama]

D-mama, Thank you for your contibution. AHHH a ONE that is in the KNOW at last.
shameless, mama, I think you have to be in the middle of f%^*%ked up shit to "get it."
enlighhtenment comes through work and survival, its said. well, I have the last two, ;P

[gate68]

PS. Calf-ignore the troll (unless you really want to get in a pissing contest). I mean-what does he ever offer?

Let me see,non-violence.

I want to kill,i wanna eat burnt dead bodies.,i wanna kill.You're funny tundra,in a kill,kill sort of way.You must have been a blast in the past,maybe too many drugs turned you paranoid.Coke will do that you know.

[gate68]

So if i agreed with violence i could also be" in the know"and enlightened.Wow!

[shameless_heifer]

Tundra,
When I was about thirteen, my daddy would take in Nam Vets and council them on living with 'after war'. My daddy never spoke of the killing he had to do in the two wars he faught in when my mama or us three girls were around. He did talk about the Pigmys and that they were cannabols and prefered the Milian soldiers over the amercains, because americans ate meat and i