Muslims... Come Join this thread!

[Brocktoon]

I was saddened to see that the Islam section was the only section never used in the entire forums!?

Surely there must be a handful of people interested in posting a few words about this respectable world religion?

I thought if I started things off with a thread it might encourage someone to speak about Islam.

Are there any Muslim forum members at all?

[fallenangel]

I'm not muslim, but i recently met a muslim who has made me very curious about it. I'm not sure what i believe in, all i know i what i was told to all my life.

[Antimatter235]

It's not a respectable religion.

[jonny2mad]

we used to have some muslim posters and this forum was at one time quite busy
they did with the best will in the world have a hard time in showing that is was a respectable religion but thats only my opinion

that doesnt mean that muslims are all monsters just that the founder and some of the tenets of the religion are pretty nasty and differcult to defend by logic

I hope all our muslim and ex-muslim posters are well and will reregister

some ex-muslim atheist and humanist sites

http://www.faithfreedom.org ali sina site

http://www.secularislam.org/ ibn warraqs site

http://www.apostatesofislam.com (http://www.apostatesofislam.com)

these sites if you read them carefully have a lot of question to ask muslims about whether mohammed was a moral man and likely to be a prophet , whether a islamic state is the best form of goverment and lots more

[Brocktoon]

Personaly, Intellectualy - I dont believe that Mohammed was a true prophet or that the Koran is inspired by God... but... I insist and hope every Muslim has the right and privilage to to come here and tell me otherwise.

It may very well help me to understand why and what I believe to be true as well!

I had a dear Muslim friend who had moved (escaped) to the US from Iran and he had nothing good to say about the 'Jihadist' Muslims running the show over there.
The man was almost 'Saint-like' in his demeanor and personality.
I could be wrong but I think he was a 'Whahabi' (??)
The 'Mellow' sect of Islam anyway.

Yes I agree with you Johnny2man that Mohammed himself was a violent and hostile warrior.
I suspect many Muslims will disagree!!

[cabdirazzaq]

Well I´m a muslim and would be glad to answer any question you may have or to defend my religion from every statement from johnny here.


62:1. Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of Allah,- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

[Brocktoon]

Im glad to see you are here Cabdirazz!

I wonder if you have any thoughts regarding the recent Nick Berg killing and how a Muslim can explain the actions of those murderers.

They claimed that Islam justified the killing?

[cabdirazzaq]

2:256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

[fallenangel]

I have so many questions, I dont know where to begin. I would be interested in anything u willing to share with me. I never knew any muslim ppl b/f i met my friend. It has opened my eyes about my own, not to mention other ppl's ignorance toward muslim ppl & their beliefs.

[cabdirazzaq]

The most important thing and the largest matter which is described in Quran is the belief in 1 God and that he has no partner/son or any of the like.

40:65. He is the Living (One): There is no god but He: Call upon Him, giving Him sincere devotion. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!

Then following that comes some duties which a muslim is obligated to perform such as prayer, giving alms, fasting, and the pilgrammage. These 5 are called the pillars of islam but ofcourse islam is much wider then just these five. Note that prayer is something extremly important for a muslim, when one stands infront of his lord, speaking with him with his words(meaning reading quran) and praising him- indeed I do not find a greator joy than that or anything more relaxing. Sometimes you have had one of those days when nothing seems to go your way and you feel empty for some reason merly the thought of prayer makes the emptyness go away and the feeling of peace flow through one self.
31:1 A. L. M.
31:2 These are Verses of the Wise Book,-
31:3 A Guide and a Mercy to the Doers of Good,-
31:4 Those who establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity, and have (in their hearts) the assurance of the Hereafter.

Il be happy to try to answer any question you may have and my advice to you or anyone who wants to know anything about islam is to read the Quran (http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM) which will seperate the lies from truth. And it should also be noted that the quran is in arabic and the english translation is a "tafsir" which explains the quran but is not the quran. The quran is to be recited in arabic (http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=flashes&cat=3), in the language which it was revealed in. A full list of all the chapters of quran in arabic can be found here (http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=echapters&recitor_id=28)(recited by Sh. Abdurahman Sodais) and here (http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=echapters&recitor_id=10)(recited by Sh. Mishary Rashid Al-Efasi) The first chapters are quite long while the last are a little bit smaller and speak not as much about different laws and rules as the 5 beginning chapters do.

[gnrm23]

there is a sect within islam (considered "fringy" or even heterodox by some muslims) with a universalist stance called sufi (or tasawuf) with many different orders...

there numbers are not great but their influence throughout the centuries has been enormous...

do a gooleserach or start here www.sufiorder.org (this group is based on chisti murshid hazrat inayat khan's teachings) --- other orders include mevlavis, sarmounis, dervishes of various types...

idries shah has written several books about sufis & sufi teaching stories, including tales of mullah nasruddin...

[jonny2mad]

mohammed beheaded prisoners several hundred at a time

khalid bin walid the sword of allah made a river run red for 3 days in iran beheading prisoners
if the main person in a religion the person as a muslim you should try to be like chopped prisoners heads off wouldnt that influence religous people to follow his example
one example of mohammed behavior
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/b_quraiza.htm


Al Mughni' that: "Each prisoner has his own qualities that should determine his fate; if the prisoner is of exceptional harm to the believers, then killing him is the best course of action. If the prisoner is weak and wealthy, ransoming him is best. If the prisoner is wise and looks highly upon the Muslims, then seeking his conversion by releasing him without conditions, or exchanging him for Muslim prisoners, is best. If the prisoners may be of service to the Muslims, including young prisoners and female prisoners, then keeping them in bondage is best. The Muslim leader will know what is in the interest of the Muslims when it comes to deciding the fate of prisoners, he should thus be counselled on such matters and is the final authority in making the decision."

I found this nice qoutation from a chechen site here the site

http://www.intellnet.org/documents/300/080/381.htm

[Brocktoon]

Now here is my concern Johnny2mad...

Yes, clearly the Koran is stating that (for example) Muslims should Kill Pagans whereever they find them...

OK.

Now, IS this a verse with a context?
Is Mohammed refering to those particular followers at that particular time in a specific series of battles against Pagan forces?

What is the context of these instructions to kill non-muslims?

This is a very important distinction because without context it appears as if Mohammed (Allah) is clearly instructing Muslims to violently take over the world.
but..
IF the context is within a historical event or asking them 'in the case of being attacked..' well then that is a different story!

[jonny2mad]

you have a principle called abrogation which means that lets say on monday mohammed said its ok to eat fish and on sunday he said dont eat fish stone fish eaters

you follow the last one the one on sunday

now if mohammed had been more chilled out on sunday this would be fine but he wasnt

generally what happened is the early bits of the koran come from a period when he didnt have a big army behind him so they speak of peace the later passages are the nasty ones the ones that tell you to kill and enslave people these are the ones in force today

so if you hear a muslim saying for example it says in the koran "To you is your religion, to me is mine'...109:1- 6 it sounds very reasonable but these verses are abrogated and do not in any way apply

its a ruse that muslims often use
what you have to look at is when a specific verse was given

very good article on abrogation the first ones better but both cover the same area
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/abulkazem/face_of_islam.htm
http://answering-islam.org/BehindVeil/btv10.html

[Brocktoon]

Interesting.

The reason Im concerned is because an old trick of Christianity's critics is to go back to the Old Testament, find events where the Israelites were carrying out judgement on other tribes - then they love to 'cut'n'paste' Gods instructions to that specific tribe on that specific occasion, so as to make it appear this is what 'The Bible' teaches.

Well.. if you just opened a page and there it said "Kill them and burn their villages" without any context then you can easily argue that the God of the Jews wants all non-Jews killed all the time!

Context shows this is simply not the case and those particular instructions have nothing to do with anyone except those specific incidents!

Now.. I have seen people cut out a Mohammed instruction "Kill all the Pagans where-ever you find them"

Ok... is this a mandate to all Muslims for all times?
- or -
was this refering to one particular battle?

This is a very signifigant difference if it exists?

[brothwood]

This may be completely fake, but i doscovered whilst reading a book in Religious Studies that Islam believes that God created the 1st human (just one man!) from clay, I just wondered what your response to this would be?

[cabdirazzaq]

This is completly correct and is reapeated several times in the quran such as:
35:11 And Allah did create you from dust; then from a sperm-drop; then He made you in pairs.

30:20 Among His Signs in this, that He created you from dust; and then,- behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)!

There are lots of other verses that speak about this and frankly I don´t see the strange thing about it. You were created from sperm but that doesn´t mean your all wet and sticky and you were created from congealed blood but it doesn´t mean you have the features of blood. Adam(peace be upon him) was created from dust and then Ibliis(Lucifer)[satan] and all the angels were orded to prostate to Adam(peace be upon him) who had been created by Allah(may he be exalted) and he[ibliis] refused on the grounds of arrogance. He was created by fire while Adam(peace be upon him) was created from dust.

38.71 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay:
38.72 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
38.73 So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together:
38.74 Not so Iblis: he was haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith.
38.75 (Allah) said: "O Iblis! What prevents thee from prostrating thyself to one whom I have created with my hands? Art thou haughty? Or art thou one of the high (and mighty) ones?"
38.76 (Iblis) said: "I am better than he: thou createdst me from fire, and him thou createdst from clay."
38.77 (Allah) said: "Then get thee out from here: for thou art rejected, accursed.
38.78 "And My curse shall be on thee till the Day of Judgment."

[Brocktoon]

I thought it would be interesting to mention that the book of Genesis describes Adam as having been created from dust...

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Judeo-Christian accounts are different from the Koran but they do agree on that particular detail.

Many Hebrew scholars point out that the name 'Adam' has a meaning like 'Red Earth'. Maybe a way of describing from the earth he was made of?

Another similar belief is found in the modern creation stories in which man is said to have been created from some chemicals or 'slime' floating in the ocean.
The major difference being that the Koran and Bible say it was a deliberate creation and not an accident.

Good thread guys!

[jonny2mad]

sorry have taken a while getting back to this thread

from my understanding of islamic scripture its not the jihadists that misinterpret scripture but the large number of nice muslims who behave in a civilised way in spite of islamic scripture

I put this down to natural goodness and humanity amongst these people

the koran says its made easy to understand for believers

the last messages of mohammed are things like kill pagans wherever you find them make people pay protection money and become second class citizens fight jihad dont take christians or jews as friends ect ect ect

in a islamic state non christians and jews dont get dhimmini status so they either get made into slaves or killed

the problem we get is when people start trying to apply the teaching of the qoran thats why we call these people fundermentalists.

they arnt people going off on their own track doing what they please they are trying to apply a religion that was based on military conquest

you could put a good case for christianity being misinterpreted too

because the later bits the new testament and jesus is quite non violent

turn the other cheek love your neighbour as yourself these havnt been applied much either

Im not a christian so Im not going to make that case but its interesting to see that the majority of people in both religions seem to follow what they feel like to an extent

2:216) “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.”

(9:29) “Make war upon …the Jews and Christians …who profess not the Religion of Truth, until they pay Jizya and be humbled.”

(9:33) Allah hath sent the religion of truth that it may prevail over all religions.”

(5:51) “O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. .


article on muslims
. " http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/SherKhan40531.htm

[cabdirazzaq]

sorry have taken a while getting back to this thread

from my understanding of islamic scripture its not the jihadists that misinterpret scripture but the large number of nice muslims who behave in a civilised way in spite of islamic scripture

I put this down to natural goodness and humanity amongst these people

the koran says its made easy to understand for believers

the last messages of mohammed are things like kill pagans wherever you find them make people pay protection money and become second class citizens fight jihad dont take christians or jews as friends ect ect ect

in a islamic state non christians and jews dont get dhimmini status so they either get made into slaves or killed

the problem we get is when people start trying to apply the teaching of the qoran thats why we call these people fundermentalists.

they arnt people going off on their own track doing what they please they are trying to apply a religion that was based on military conquest

you could put a good case for christianity being misinterpreted too

because the later bits the new testament and jesus is quite non violent

turn the other cheek love your neighbour as yourself these havnt been applied much either

Im not a christian so Im not going to make that case but its interesting to see that the majority of people in both religions seem to follow what they feel like to an extent Undoubtly jihad makes up a big part of this religion, it could be of different types such as to strive with ones hands or with ones heart. As soon as the muslims stopped fighting and they stopped fearing their creator and started fearing the enemy they became humilated, slaughtered and oppressed. It´s no secret today what happens in Cheychnia, Kashmir, Iraq and Palestine. Fighting is prescribed on us just as the former generation had to fight.

2.251: By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not Allah Check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief: But Allah is full of bounty to all the worlds.

If nobody ever fought indeed churches, monastaries, temples and mosques were Allahs(may he be exalted) name is mentioned would of been destroyed.

2:216) “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.”
Fighting as I said before is prescribed on us but many has started to dislike it and we now see muslims being oppressed and killed in many places of the world.

(9:33) Allah hath sent the religion of truth that it may prevail over all religions.”

Islam is the religion of truth and a light and guidance sent down by the lord of the worlds. Indeed it contains justice and laws for mankind. Allah(may he be exalted) says:
Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

(5:51) “O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. .

Just because we are not allowed to befriend disbelivers doesn´t mean we should treat them like dirt.

60.8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just

29.46 And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong

5.82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

[Antimatter235]

Islam has its own set of definitions on keywords.

Undoubtly jihad makes up a big part of this religion, it could be of different types such as to strive with ones hands or with ones heart. Please clarify how they're supposed to strive with their heart. Mixing war and emotion (instead of physical force) means trying to soften and convert them via " pushing buttons " or mental coercion.


60.8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just


Look at " justice ". Sounds good doesn't it ? Yeah until you find out how " Justice " works in islam. It has its own set of laws. BTW " Allah forbids you not " it just means that you have the right to be kind or just, not the duty.

Here are the laws ( remember, a justice system is based on laws):

I) adultery : stoning to death;
(II) fornication : a hundred stripes (lashes);
(III) false accusation of adultery against a married person: eighty stripes (lashes);
(IV) apostasy : death;
(V) drinking wine: eighty stripes(lashes);
(VI) theft : the cutting off of the right hand;
(VII) robbery on the highway: the loss of hands and feet;
(VIII) robbery with murder: death, either by the sword or by crucifixion.


29.46 And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong.

Inflicting wrong is somewhat distorted in islam. It's like " if they mock Allah, then CRUSH them, those filthy beasts ".

5.82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Well, how to understand that ? With Jews and Pagans, shoot then talk. With Christians be kind and give them the chance to be converted before shooting.

Check that: 160 Except those who repent and amend and make manifest (the truth). These it is toward whom I relent. I am the Relenting, the Merciful.

Isn't the "Relenting, the Merciful" a little selective ?

2:216) “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.”

Fighting as I said before is prescribed on us but many has started to dislike it and we now see muslims being oppressed and killed in many places of the world. What is "many" and how is that they "started" to dislike it. Like it was OK some time ago ?
And BTW this passage states clearly that whether or not you like it, its good (ie its a duty). The following quote confirm that. When you look closer you can see that you're judgements are void.

Check that:216Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.



Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

Translation: fidels = Heaven, infidels = Hell.

Just because we are not allowed to befriend disbelivers doesn´t mean we should treat them like dirt.Not it just mean you should treat them like vermin... Unless they're converted in this case Allah becomes suddenly "kind and merciful":

Check that: 4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

-----------------
Outside the little argument. Let's educate ourselves on Allah, the "Kind and Merciful".

4:56 Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.

:) LOVE THE CREATOR... OR ELSE:mad: :mad: !

[mahasattva]

Islam is the religion of truth and a light and a guidance sent down by the lord of worlds. Indeed, it contins justice and laws for makind

How about Buddhism and other Eastern religions or Philosophy which is in different fashion of religious traditional beliefs?Do they included in that God's(Allah known in Arab) rule sent down by Him? I know Islam came from the Judeo-Christian tradition which is different from that Eastern religions like Buddhism. Unlike most other major religions, Buddhism depends on neither divine revelation nor an incarnation of God for its authenticity. Shakyamuni, the Buddha, was a man who through his own efforts attained enlightenment as to the essential nature of life.

While Buddhism began with the teaching of one human being who awoke to the law of life(truth) within himself, it has come to include the interpretations of that teaching by subsequent scholars and prophets. As we have said, the word Buddha originally meant "enlightened one," one who is awakened to the eternal truth or law of life. This truth is eternal and boundless. It is present always and everywhere. In this sense, the law of life, is not the exclusive property of Shakyamuni Buddha or Prophet Muhammad, or Christ. The truth is open equally to everyone.
The ultimate and all-abiding law that the Buddha perceived may be another name for some people's concept of God. On the other hand, a person who cannot believe in an anthropomorphic God can see an underlying energy to the universe. The breadth of Buddhism encompasses both views and focuses on the individual.

There is no one to blame - and no one to implore for salvation. In Buddhism, no God or supernatural entity plans and shapes our fates. In Western religion, you can bring yourself closer to God through your faith, but you can never become God. In Buddhism, one could never be separate from the wisdom of God, because the ultimate wisdom already exists in the heart of every person.

I was raised to believe that I should always think for myself, that I should discern fantasy from reality, that violence is not something that should be glorified, and that God is greater than our ability to describe in words or to limit with ideas. For these reasons, I do not accept the Quran or Bible as a unique authority on God or any other subject. That does not mean that I dismiss it entirely, however.

To begin with, I will not accept anything just because it is written in the Quran or Bible. As far as I am concerned the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament from the Christian point of view) is a collection of the tribal legends, historical records, and religious writings of the ancient Hebrews. I am a modern American - not an ancient Hebrew. Therefore, my entire worldview is informed by scientific data and cultural assumptions that are extremely far removed from those of the ancient Hebrews. Unlike them, just to name a few examples, I am convinced that this universe is billions of years old; that life as it now appears on Earth is part of an ongoing process of evolution; that different languages and dialects developed over time; that it is not an abomination to eat pork, shrimp, or lobster, or to mix beef and dairy products; that slavery is immoral; that it is immoral to execute disrespectful children; and that one is never justified in committing genocide or ethnic cleansing. The ancient Hebrews, however, were ignorant of modern astrophysics, ignorant of geology, ignorant of the fossil record and carbon dating, they believed that all of the existing language groups originated from God's curse at the tower of Babel, they believed that it is an abomination to eat certain kinds of foods or to prepare foods in certain ways, they believed that disrespect to God or one's parent's is a capital offense, they practiced slavery, and they believed that God had commanded them to kill every man, woman, and child in certain towns during the conquest of the promised land (in other cases the men and boys were killed and the woman and girls enslaved). So, for scientific and moral reasons I do not view the Bible as an authority.

The Quran/Bible also relates stories wherein a donkey speaks to its master, a flood covers the entire world and all life on earth today is descended from only the animals aboard Noah's ark, a woman turns into a pillar of salt, people are lifted up bodily into the heavens never to return, the sun stands still in the sky, and finally a man physically comes back from the dead and proceeds to walk through walls and ascend bodily into the heavens. I am leaving out a lot of other miraculous tales that are either logistically impossible, or which could be explained in a more rational way. The point is that the reality I live in does not operate that way, and I have never been given any good reason to believe that any of these things happened in real life other than the testimony of the ancient Hebrews who (as I said) had a prescientific mythical worldview; and the testimony of a small sect of Judaism which became the nucleus of a minor mystery religion in the Roman Empire, which eventually became the official religion of that empire, which then become the reigning religious ideology of various European nation-states. I must say that I require objective, empirical, and verifiable and irrefutable evidence before I throw common sense out the window and accept that any of these things happened in real life.

I apply the same standard to the more fantastical stories and anecdotes which appear in Buddhism. In Buddhism, however, the fantastic elements are never the main point and they almost always exist to underscore a point that does make sense. In most cases, the metaphorical nature of the supernatural and miraculous in Buddhism is very easy to see and the Buddhist scriptures themselves state that they are using metaphorical language on many occasions.

I also cannot accept the Quranic/Biblical God's use of violence, terror, and threats to get people to do what He wants. This includes Joshua's conquest of the promised land, the behavior of the Judges, Jesus and St. Paul's threats of eternal damnation for those who do not believe, and finally the Armageddon promised in the Book of Revelations. Jesus even says at one point that he comes not to bring peace but a sword to divide families against one another (Matthew 10:34). It seems to me that the violence and threats of violence in the Bible are nothing more than a very human way of abdicating responsibility and laying all of our very human shortcomings at God's door. I do not accept the Quranic/Biblical portrait of a God who commands, condones, and makes use of violence and terror.

[geckopelli]

This is a useless forum.

All these fanatics do is post quotes. They can't think for themselves. They're like robots.

Watch.

[Brocktoon]

This is a useless forum.

All these fanatics do is post quotes. They can't think for themselves. They're like robots.

Watch.
I will agree with you - in so far as - Some posters sometimes drop large blocks of scriptures without providing original opinions, background context etc.

I do not agree with your assertion this is all 'useless'.
If nothing else - you can find their reason for the hope that lies within them.

Fanatics? I don't think so - no one here is some maniac. They believe these things. They chose to put faith in these scriptures and agree with the principles and that is thinking for themselves.
Robots?

Why insult people. no one is a robot here.

[geckopelli]

Oh, but they are.

You'll get no intelligent or thoughtfull responses.

Just a bunch of quotes.

Shills.

I would love to engage a muslim in free debate, but they apparently don't believe in it.

Just propaganda.

[Brocktoon]

You should try having a discussion with Mahasavvta.

She is the most 'cunning' of debaters using a strategy of 'overwhelming points and assertions'.

It makes it nearly impossible to respond to any one of her assertions and.. even if you attempt to quote them individually, you can not separate which part of paragraph is the speculative part, which is a dogmatic conclusion, which is where she rejects supernatural events then suddenly accepts them.. then denies they are important then asserts others are not.. etc etc etc

If you can get her to stay on ONE single topic at a time (in 3000 words or less) then you MIGHT have a chance at an actual constructive debate.

Good luck!

[geckopelli]

I'm doubt her hypocrisy is any more entertainig than these other guys dogma.

Besides, half these guys are really only a few shills, looking to recruit gulible western kids. They come to sites like this looking for the discontent and the misfits- easy prey.
They're still working off the old KGB manual.

[Cosmic Butterfly]

Very good post Mahasatva...:D

My opinion on Religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judisiam is that they are all basically lies.Illusions. They are all of ego, and written by an extreme oppressive patriachical mindset.

I was brought up to a Muslim, but from 6 years up I knew in my being something far greater, and beautiful.

[xdianax]

:) Geckopelli, your first post was particularly amusing because I was about to post a quote on this thread. Haha, well saying that I think I might post it anyway.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

It is something I felt like sharing, not in order to "convince" anyone of anything, just as something for people to reflect on for a moment.

Anyway...I would be happy to conduct a debate with other people, without relying solely on quotes, trying my hardest to be consistent, and address the points mentioned by other debaters. To me debating is fun!


:) Namaste,
Diana

[jujunisa]

there are answers to each and everyone's qtn,remarks and comments. i'm gathering all the evidences and information. i don wish to express my views w/o any basis or proofs like how most of you ppl in here have done. so expect to see my replies soon. rethink what you ppl have written. get ready to answer my qtns.

[amiera]

I am Shiite Muslimah!!!!!!!!!

[Alvy007]

Who says Islam is not a respactable religion.

What Religion did u come from?

[Puffis]

I beleive all religions are respectable.

[M.Saif]

hi.. already posted:
what do you need to know about Islam?
in this link:
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254138