Christianity and Drugs. [Archive]

neodude1212

12-27-2007, 04:56 PM

Moon_Beam

12-27-2007, 05:27 PM

There is evidence to suggest that people who use drugs have less religion in their lives.

There are many references in the Bible to suggest that it is against drug use

1 Thessalonians 5:6/ Philippians 4/ 1 Corinthians 6:20/ 1 Corinthians 10:31

Drugs do not fit into a Christian lifestyle, Jesus taught be of a sober mind, if we follow Him, I guess it means do what He did.

But there will be many different views on this, I guess it's something you do decide for yourself.

Saying that, doing drugs will not be what keeps you from Heaven, not having a personal relationship is what keeps one from Heaven.

tikoo

12-27-2007, 07:06 PM

the church has no authority in such a private matter , and it certainly is a sober one . lsd would make 40 days in the wilderness quite a bit shorter ? maybe . maybe you gotta have a chemical jolt to the brain to even get you to the woods , i don't know ...

i was an iowa farm kid who ate the lsd . not much , like three times , and those trips were all visionary movies . here's the essence one : seven spirits there are in a man . they arise and fly from my body into the air . these spirits are then changed and become anew , then re-enter , aligned across my chest . today , this is how i still feel seven spirits within this man .

xexon

12-27-2007, 07:24 PM

"There is evidence to suggest that people who use drugs have less religion in their lives."

Really???

I would have to counter that people who do drugs are often quite strong about their feelings towards the divine. The difference being that they are independent thinkers and don't subscribe to the mass programming of religion.

Religion is seen as a part of the status quo. Most independent thinkers are adverse to the status qou.

As for drugs and Christianity, while its NOT going to get you sent to hell, it make may it more difficult to weigh things accurately. Christianity included.

If you decide to do drugs, weigh that with accuracy as well. You might have a short encounter with them or you might make it a lifelong affair. Either way, there is danger of addiction.

Can't serve two masters.

x

Moon_Beam

12-27-2007, 07:31 PM

"There is evidence to suggest that people who use drugs have less religion in their lives."

Really???

I would have to counter that people who do drugs are often quite strong about their feelings towards the divine. The difference being that they are independent thinkers and don't subscribe to the mass programming of religion.

x
I did a scholar search and it came up with a paper saying that evidence shows that people who take drugs/ alcohol had less religion in their life. Obviously, it can't be generalised and I didn't read the whole article so don't know who they looked at, or whether it only looked at religion per say rather than included spirituality. I can have a look for the link if you want.

Okiefreak

12-27-2007, 09:32 PM

I did a scholar search and it came up with a paper saying that evidence shows that people who take drugs/ alcohol had less religion in their life. Obviously, it can't be generalised and I didn't read the whole article so don't know who they looked at, or whether it only looked at religion per say rather than included spirituality. I can have a look for the link if you want.That would help. It would be interesting to see how the author defined having "religion in their lives" and what drugs he's talking about. Some of the folks in these forums are certainly true believers, if not churchgoers, and seem to be flying high.

neodude1212

12-27-2007, 10:24 PM

there is no decision to do drugs. I already do them. I was just wondering what other people thought of it since im a Christian. Im definatly not serving two masters, and im not addicted. it's just i've had bad trips before b/c i've been so worried about whether i was sinning or not. i mean....really really bad trips.

moon beam, im gonna have to disagree with you on that statement you made. people that have been sober their entire lives have a very negative perception on drugs, b/c A) they have been told it is bad, and B) they have never done it. to me this is exactly what the church wants. i think LSD makes you realise a lot of things. especially when it comes to your spirituality.

Moon_Beam

12-27-2007, 10:33 PM

moon beam, im gonna have to disagree with you on that statement you made. people that have been sober their entire lives have a very negative perception on drugs, b/c A) they have been told it is bad, and B) they have never done it. to me this is exactly what the church wants. i think LSD makes you realise a lot of things. especially when it comes to your spirituality.
I have worked with many, many people who use/ have used drugs, so I know of the damage they cause, so I can't agree that they are good. There are many christian rehabs around so I think christians there have experience.

It is not hard to have a negative view on drugs, when you see the crap it causes, not only to the person, but to family. So, I don't like them because of personal experience, I don't think the church has made me think that.

You asked for a christian perspective and I gave you what Jesus said!

RELAYER

12-27-2007, 10:41 PM

Moon_Beam

12-27-2007, 10:47 PM

Moon Beam, LSD and Jesus teaching's fit gland in gland with a spoonful of miracles. Personal experience that you dont like them? Well, if your talking about cocain, opiates, meth, and alcohol abuse, I see where your coming from. But psychedelics? Trust me, until you know, you just dont know. There is a WHOLE different world right under your nose. And many acid and magic mushroom eaters have come to the same conclusion that "the Kingdom of Heaven is within you" but it seems that the average Christain church goer just doesnt want to believe that the Kingdom is in your neighbor as much as yourself. -
I know ok and I don't believe drugs will help you find heaven in that sense. I think yes, acid may help you realise things you may not otherwise, but Jesus would not say "yeah, why not, they will help you find heaven within you".

The kingdom is in your neighbour? I believe Jesus is in you, and everyone, but the kingdom is a place will have to get to, but I don't think through drugs.

RELAYER

12-27-2007, 10:51 PM

I know ok and I don't believe drugs will help you find heaven in that sense. I think yes, acid may help you realise things you may not otherwise, but Jesus would not say "yeah, why not, they will help you find heaven within you".

The kingdom is in your neighbour? I believe Jesus is in you, and everyone, but the kingdom is a place will have to get to, but I don't think through drugs.
You may be right Moon Beam :)
Luv you either way!
namaste my friends and family

floydianslip6

12-27-2007, 10:51 PM

Well Moon, you didn't actually quote Jesus, but paul's letters.

"it's not what goes into a person ['s mouth] that makes them unclean, but what comes out"

may be applicable here.

Moon_Beam

12-27-2007, 11:11 PM

You may be right Moon Beam :)
Luv you either way!
namaste my friends and family
:)

Moon_Beam

12-27-2007, 11:16 PM

Well Moon, you didn't actually quote Jesus, but paul's letters.There are many references from Jesus in the bible about staying sober, which are applied to both drink and drugs.

Although, the bible does not preach against total abstinance as wine is used in Holy Communion.

"it's not what goes into a person ['s mouth] that makes them unclean, but what comes out" may be applicable here.I could come back with references from Matthew 18:8-9. 'If your hand causes you to sin cut it off' etc. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

floydianslip6

12-27-2007, 11:54 PM

But in order to quote that you're already assuming that to consume the drug is a sin in the first place. It's if..then... in the wrong order.

Also wine being used in holy communion was not pertinent at the time of Jesus, since there was only passover and revelry. Holy Communion didn't exist. We took Jesus message of "do this in remembrance of me" and added other symbols to create holy communion.

As for staying sober, it's true that keeping a sound mind is all over the teachings of Jesus. But again, that's assuming that drug X renders you not of sound mind. Which is not always the case. Regardless of your opinions of this (the sound mind argument), without actual experience it's hard to make claims one way or the other.

I believe there is a level that certain drugs can be used responsibly and a level at which they become damaging. Certainly not every drug experimenters life is a shambles. Which harkens to your statement earlier about not serving two masters.

Moon_Beam

12-28-2007, 12:03 AM

But in order to quote that you're already assuming that to consume the drug is a sin in the first place.

Also wine being used in holy communion was not pertinent at the time of Jesus, since there was only passover and revelry. Holy Communion didn't exist. We took Jesus message of "do this in remembrance of me" and added other symbols to create holy communion.
In terms of addiction yes.

Holy communion comes from the Last Supper in which Jesus broke the bread of His body and gave the wine as His blood. So communion is for want of a better word a replication of the last supper.

Moon_Beam

12-28-2007, 12:08 AM

As for staying sober, it's true that keeping a sound mind is all over the teachings of Jesus. But again, that's assuming that drug X renders you not of sound mind. Which is not always the case. Regardless of your opinions of this (the sound mind argument), without actual experience it's hard to make claims one way or the other.

I believe there is a level that certain drugs can be used responsibly and a level at which they become damaging. Certainly not every drug experimenters life is a shambles. Which harkens to your statement earlier about not serving two masters.
If that is to me, I didn't make the statement of serving two masters.

I have experience, I said this earlier. I agree that there is a level drugs can be damaging, but I'm not sure about responsibly. But that is my opinion.

floydianslip6

12-28-2007, 12:11 AM

Holy communion comes from the Last Supper in which Jesus broke the bread of His body and gave the wine as His blood. So communion is for want of a better word a replication of the last supper.That's not entirely true. For example, water is added to the wine to symbolize the spear being thrust into his side to confirm if he was dead (not breaking the legs as usual so as to fulfill "no bone on his body shall be broken" prophecy). Also, we've added that by consuming his blood and body and partaking in this sacrament we are forgiven, etc.

So while parts of the sacrament come from the last supper there is much more "baggage" than that. Aside from this the method in which communion is distributed in the catholic church varies greatly from the eastern churches. Which is why I said we've sort of blown out his "do this in remembrance of me" statement from the last supper. It's the fathers of the churches that decided on the symbolism and the methods behind communion not Jesus.

Sorry about attributing the comment of the two masters to you, re-reading I see I was mistaken.

Also, you only mention experience with the negative aspects of drugs... working with addicts etc. I was refering to experience in using drugs responsibly, which I'm not sure if you've done or not.

Moon_Beam

12-28-2007, 12:22 AM

Sorry about attributing the comment of the two masters to you, re-reading I see I was mistaken.
No worries!

Also, you only mention experience with the negative aspects of drugs... working with addicts etc. I was refering to experience in using drugs responsibly, which I'm not sure if you've done or not
I know people who use drugs when out and to socialise etc, but although they claim that they are in control and know that they can handle it and are using them responsibily, I see something different.

I don't think I have a particularly christian view on drugs, I now don't use any and I can't understand why they are needed or why people would want to. Although people I know do and I am not going to stop them, only look out for them.

floydianslip6

12-28-2007, 12:52 AM

I know people who use drugs when out and to socialise etc, but although they claim that they are in control and know that they can handle it and are using them responsibily, I see something different.
Well... everyone is different, perhaps we can leave it at that.

Also I should mention I don't think all drugs are created equal. Or can stand up to the defense that I've suggested.

only look out for them.
It's all you can do. I'm sure they appreciate it, even if they don't say it.

Hryhorii

12-28-2007, 09:29 AM

LSD specifically.

do you guys that the two can correlate in one life? can you be a christian and use drugs at the same time? and i know some people are going to give all that "decide for yourselve don't listen to laws made by the church we are all God thing", but to me that just seems like self-worship. If i could decide all the rules for myself, then why would I follow Christianity in the first place? I would just follow myself. Just, what im trying to say that from a traditional view is it bad? I can't find anything written that says it is. help please, thanks.
Using Paul's writings, if you used to get "closer to God" or to "realize salvation" or something like that, then it is bad. Paul believes that no act can justify a person (Abraham was justified through righteousness). If you use it as a good time, but do not forget a godly life, then I think the case can be made that it is not horrible to use. (Proverbs, do not be lead astray [from God] by strong drink).

Would I ever use, no. Do I think you can be a good person and use, yes. Do I think you can be a Christian and use, that is a little more difficult considering the drug trade itself.

Where do you get the LSD, where do they get it, what does the money end up funding...consider these things.

neodude1212

12-28-2007, 07:29 PM

i think what it funds is beside the point. when i pay taxes i fund things that i dont support but i don't really have a choice. i think i can only be held responsible for my own actions, and what the next person does with my money is their business. after all, if they didn't get the money from me, they would have gotten it from someone else.

tikoo

12-28-2007, 10:51 PM

i've had some beautiful hallucinations and they , in kindness , linger on to become more .

Hryhorii

12-28-2007, 11:18 PM

i think what it funds is beside the point.
I think it is the point. It is like blood diamonds. Would you buy diamonds if the money went to support genocides? Or is that not your concern?
when i pay taxes i fund things that i dont support but i don't really have a choice.
Law and free choice are two different things. What taxes are allocated to can be fought. Think of lobby groups, they help decide where taxes are diverted to. Get involved in policy.
i think i can only be held responsible for my own actions, and what the next person does with my money is their business. Yes, you can only be responsible for your own actions, but I think it is your responsibility to choose your actions wisely. I refer again to my blood diamond comment. If your actions help to produce other actions (with your knowledge that they probably will be a result) isn't it then a result of your action and then should be concerned.

after all, if they didn't get the money from me, they would have gotten it from someone else.This is very Disney Lemmming-ish of you. Horrible logic.

neodude1212

12-29-2007, 02:00 AM

it isn't horrible logic. actually, it's a very simple truth.

and yeah good luck fighting what your tax dollars spend. now THAT is delusional.

anyway, i dont really think my acid money funds anything bad.

thanks for trying to make me look stupid though. disney lemming.
much appreciated.

Hryhorii

12-29-2007, 05:46 AM

and yeah good luck fighting what your tax dollars spend. now THAT is delusional.
This case doesn't specifically deal with taxes, but a couple weeks ago a law in Canada was put on the back burner because of a Facebook group. Change can happen. Activism can work.

I wasn't criticizing your logic that if you didn't someone else would, i was criticizing your rationalization to make it okay to buy from dealers.

Moon_Beam

12-29-2007, 11:18 AM

I agree with Hryhorii, I try to not buy anything that will help fund something I don't agree with, be it trade wise or criminal activity. I would hate to think that what I was buying was coming from robbery, burglary, violence etc and I try to stay away from any product that may come from anything bad.

floydianslip6

12-29-2007, 02:08 PM

Yeah there definitely needs to be smart consumerism practiced, not to get uber paranoid about everything... but it is a good idea to be relatively vigilant. Luckily I know my sources :-)

tikoo

12-30-2007, 03:01 AM

it's old school to become enlightened , to learn . what would one learn from seeing with illusion ?

neodude1212

12-30-2007, 10:57 PM

what is real and what is illusion? every piece of artwork you have ever seen is an illusion, yet are they not valuable learning tools? words on the page of a book are illusions of the real message, but you can learn from them...

tikoo

12-31-2007, 05:19 PM

i think i learned something from tripping acid . it's about trusting my eyes when i see a fantastical glory in the world . our culture can be very repressive about facts of spirit in nature .

what i saw tripping was as nothing - tho i guess the shiny girl floating in a pink sailboat stopped for the red-light downtown late at night was pretty cute .

mr.morrison

01-01-2008, 02:10 AM

no, drugs can correlate with christianity. fuck the church. the church was an organization created by MAN. 99% of any churches doctrine is a man made interpretation. and a vast majority of it is just so they can stay in control. all churches are corrupt.

being a christian means only 3 things. you believe jesus was the son of god, you believe he died for your sins, and you accept him into your heart as your savior. you can be a smoker, drug user, gay, liberal, anything.

churches oppose drugs because psychedelics help open your eyes into seeing false things, as in most of their doctrine. LSD will make you realize you dont need a pope, patriarch, or paster. all you need is yourself and god.

besides, the early christians used marijuana and mushrooms in their rituals. its only in the last century that drugs have been condemned
so i say, trip on brother

Okiefreak

01-03-2008, 04:48 AM

To my knowledge, the Bible doesn't say anything specifically about drugs, but it does address some issues that can be relevant to the abuse of mind-altering substances. Certain kinds of conduct are considered immoral: drunkenness, and presumably drug abuse and addiction (Gal/ 5:1921; 1 Cor. 6:9-11); lawbreaking (Romans 13:1-5; 1 Peter 2:13,14; Tit. 3:1); and getting into spiritually dangerous situations involving loss of control (Proverbs 22:3; 1 Peter 1:8,9; 1 Peter 1:13-17). There is also a general mandate to treat the body as a "temple of the holy spirit" (1 Cor. 6:19). I think, just on utilitarian principles, that if a person's drug use gets to the point that (s)he harms or threatens to harm others, becomes dangerously out of control, supports criminal behavior, or experiencs serious impairment of judgment and health, it's not good.

The manticore

01-04-2008, 04:25 PM

i know christians that smoke weed because they say god created it as a medicene
chemical drugs im not sure im not a christian but i have done ecstasy and would recomend it to everyone i despratly wanna do it with my family 1 day it'l no doubt be one of the best if not the best night of their lives

Bl4ck3n3D

02-05-2008, 05:38 AM

I do believe ecstasy is the closest man has got to recreating true bliss.

xexon

02-06-2008, 01:15 AM

But there is a price attached to that kind of ecstasy. True bliss is free for the taking, provided you've grown enough to reach the dispenser.

x

Bl4ck3n3D

02-08-2008, 10:39 PM

But there is a price attached to that kind of ecstasy. True bliss is free for the taking, provided you've grown enough to reach the dispenser.

x

Ofcourse, I've experienced it myself, and true bliss is totally undescribable, ecstasy is the closest drug I could think of to describe it.

Floating High

09-16-2008, 02:44 AM

Believe it or not Jimi Hendrix's song Purple Haze wasn't about Purple Haze as in the marijuana. It was about him coming back to Jesus and look at him. He used drugs all of his life. Plus God gave us every plant that bears seeds for our food and usage

stalk

09-16-2008, 02:46 AM

snocbor

09-16-2008, 02:48 AM

God gave us this unique plant with many healing properties.

No religion can argue this fact

Lynnbrown

09-22-2008, 05:13 AM

First off, Neodude, you know how to start a good thread!

Second, I would recommend only a rare and ritualistic, ceremonial use of some natural substance such as shrooms and peyote or mescaline even, if He was really with you. You know. I can tell you have common sense, a true rarity. People will talk their crap - but you will know who you are if you know Him - and it can empower you.

Jesus said to Expect Tribulation, but to be overjoyed for he had overcome the world.

The earlier post was absoultely correct when they said this and this alone would not keep you out of the kingdom. I'll pray for you to find the right crop.