View Full Version : what is wrong with society & why did i post this in the LSD section?
there is so much that i feel is wrong with our society that i almost want to just give up and go live in a hut somewhere that i wont have to pay taxes or listen to anyone tell me what i can and cant do(if there is such a place that i could go)... but ultimately i think that the whole world needs to be saved, not just myself. if i go out to live away from it all and live off the land i would only be saving myself and in the big picture that just isnt good enough and is very selfish. i feel that the world needs to change. not to destroy what we have but to build on what we have in a peaceful way.
peter popper mentioned something in another thread about how in the future the police will be able to bust you within seconds for doing something illigal. that is what got me started on this thread and is exactly why people like us have to make sure we do whatever we can to ensure that our fredoms are not taken away anymore. what can a few people do - in the name of freedom we can do amazing things. any and all forms of control must be eliminated. i know that a police free society is difficult for people to imagine and will be almost impossible to accomplish any time soon but this is something that we have to work towards in a way that will not have the whole system crashing down on us. we need this system to survive. we need a working economy more than anything else and we do not want to make any drastic changes that may distroy the foundation that we stand upon. like you i think there is much good about society - with our extremely large populations we need to work together and some sort of system is necessary. i dont think that we need to change our currency.
as for the police i think that they should become a rescue squad and have nothing to do with making arrests. they should have nothing to do with causing harm but everything to do with preventing it. preventing danger should never cause anyone any harm. i think that we the people should be responsible for keeping our families safe. i think that karma should be the only force guiding our actions. for example - if some man raped my daughter i would like to decide what to do with this guy. maybe the women will learn how to defend themselves by carying a small wepon to immobilize any man who tries to harm them. i think it should be up to the family involved how they will deal with the situation. in most cases i feel that police only get in the way. it is very easy for predators and other questionable people to get away with what they are doing because we have to wait for a team of police to get around to doing something about it and in most cases we are unhappy with the polices' resolve. another example - someone breaks into my house but i can not hurt them in anyway or i will be breaking the law - instead i have call 911 and hope the guy doesnt hurt us before the police get there. if we were given the freedom to kill anyone who entered our home i am sure there would be a lot less home invasions going on. if the families of a rape victim were given the freedom to deal with the situation as they see fit i am sure there would be less rapping going on. now i am not sure if i could or would actually kill someone. the only time i can say that i would kill someone is if that was the only way to save my life or someone in my family's life. and that would have to be in the moment just before the death was to take place. i could not in good conscious kill someone that i thought might kill me or might kill a family member - they would have to be in the act of murder at the time for me to ever realize that killing them is a good idea and that would have to be the only way to prevent it, if i could imobilize the individual without killing them i would do that and we would decide what to do with the individual later with a family meeting.
the idea that we as a people need laws to govern us suggests that people are not responsible enough to make their own choices. i was given the freedom to make choices and learn by them yet some government tries to tell me that i am not capable of making up my mind on my own and they will tell me what is right and what is wrong. this is just all wrong. basically if you learn to protect yourself and your family there is nothing to fear. the police create some sort of false sense of security. i would rather walk out of my house being prepared to protect myself than i would want to have police protecting me. i think we should work together as families to protect ourselves and defend against our enemies. i believe that a family run security system would work better than a government run police system. our families could pool their resources to organize some sort of defense should the need ever arise.
i know that when you imagine a world without police you see trouble. even i get a little freaked out by the idea but overall i think that we can take care of ourselves. it is like with parenting - if you are strict with your rules your children will rebel and turn into something you dont want. if you let them make up their own minds and think for themselves you will see them grow up to be wonderful people. the same would be true in society - sure the transition might be a bit rough but giving freedom to the people is the best way to go in the long run. in the future we could live in a peaceful place.
after all that writing and i know i still have not made a solid argument. basically i am still not sure how it can be done safely but i know it must at some point be done. our country must be given back to the people and if we want to continue calling canada and the states free countries we better look at making it completely free. there is something very wrong with a country that says you live in a free country as long as you follow their rules!!!
as for the government and taxes - i have done a lot of thinking on this subject and i feel i have some answers. of course i dont have all the solutions just yet but i sure do have some good ideas that in theory work much better than the system we have somehow adopted... i am only one person so i dont claim to have all the answers and of course i dont figure i can do it alone - i hope to meet people along the way that will offer some help. as long as i am alive i must work towards making the world a better place - even if the effect i have is very little at least i tried. i told my wife that peter popper asked me how we could make this society a better place she laughed and said "oh no - your going to be writing all day" and here i am going on and on, i hope you guys read it all and decide to help by adding some ideas or disagreing.
like i said we need a system that works. no one wants to go back in time.
TAX IS WRONG - why must we pay tax? i know that people are going to say that we need our roads and schools and in some countries health care. that’s all true - we do need such services. the thing that gets me is why i have to pay for stuff i might not be using. we could very easily change our taxing government to a pay as you go system. we dont need tax and we dont need anyone telling us how to live our lives or spend our money. now that we have the internet this transition can be achieved without too much problem. this will take a great deal of time but is achievable.
we could all have an account on line under our social security number where we decide what services we want to subscribe to. i would transfer my money every month to all the services that i need. kinda like what we do now for our hydro and telephone.
we could use the same system for our roads. in order to have access to the roads you would have to pay a monthly fee based on how much you use. someone who drives a truck on the roads all day would have to pay more than someone who only uses it go get to work. a system would have to be developed to ensure that people cant use the roads without first paying - that would be difficult but in this modern world i feel it is possible.
for health care we could have a family pot where every month everyone in the family puts some of their hard earned money in the pot. i dont like to give my money away to anyone who might need it. like the old woman i never knew who spent her hole life smoking cigarette after cigarette who wants to stay on life support or have a very expensive surgery - why do i have to pay for that. if it was someone in my family then i would feel better about where the money was going and the family could decide. in my case i probably would start my own fund that did not include my parents or grand parents. they spent much of their lives killing themselves and i am not going to spend money to keep them alive when they spent thousands of dollars killing themselves. if someone in my family needed a little extra money for some medical emergency i would consider giving them money out of my own pot.
we could do the same thing for the fire department. if you dont pay a small monthy fee they wont come to your house if it is burning down. they will come put out the fire if they have to, to save your neighbors house who did pay the monthly fee but as far as you are concerned if you dont subscribe to the fire department your house doesnt matter.
we could do this for every part of our already working government. those who want to support the school system can pay for the service. if you want to put your kids in school you will have to pay a monthly fee. this would make our education system a lot more accountable.
as for the military i think we should use the same approach that i mentioned in regards to policing. people could donate any extra money they have to our national defense. personally i would only give money to the military if they were for our defense only. there would have to be no more of this going into other countries and bossing people around. there is no need for an offensive military. i am sure that if all countries just sat back and defended themselves that there would be no more war. they would have to rely on people giving them money so they would have to be more accountable. they would have to rally up support and prove to the people that such measures are needed.
what i am getting at is that with a pay as you go system there would be much less money wasted or stolen and the independent companies that take care of one or more of the services could be held accountable. if a service does not get the funding that it requires to operate some changes will have to be made. with a pay as you go system you know that people are getting what they paid for and that in itself would make the system fair. like i said i dont have all the answers and most of my ideas are so far fetched that it will be difficult even to get a few people to agree. most people will be so scared of change that they will do everything in their power to stop anything like this from happening. i am not the best at putting my thoughts out in this medium. i find it easier to speak and let it flow - this medium is difficult for me sometimes. none the less i feel i have made some good points here - way off topic i guess but peter popper asked this question of me in another thread and seeing that this is the LSD section i figure if anyone is going to be open to this type of thinking it would be here with a bunch of crazy drug users...lol
seriously i think that if we got a few hundred of our brightest psychedelic minds and put them in that big room where all those politicians argue all day we could come up with some very good solutions to our problem. what is that problem - a free country that tells you what to do and makes you pay tax. lets work towards making this a FREE WORLD. any ideas to add? anyone disagree or have a better idea? anyone ever thought anything like this? anyone upset that i have taken the time to go way off topic in an LSD thread? honestly i think i will find better responces to this kind of post in this section - for some reason i think that people who use psychedelic drugs are more open to this kind of change. if it wasnt for psychedelic drugs i never would have realized any of this... anyways, i look forward to hearing what you have to say.
sw0o0sh
12-13-2007, 08:42 PM
To paragraph 2 -
I think you are thinking of the future to be more like a `Minority Report` (movie) type feel. While it may happen ions from now, it would take a VERY long time in America, or the world in general to reach a point where freedoms are violated to the point where you are busted the second you do something wrong. Why don't you think of 'how' that type of instance would be achieved? (Super advanced technology needed) .. That could, when they put sensory chips in all humans for "action" control... Huge freedom violation, wouldn't ever fly unless ALL the wrong people were in control (.. and all over the world), and that would be very hard..
To paragraph 3 -
"as for the police i think that they should become a rescue squad and have nothing to do with making arrests. they should have nothing to do with causing harm but everything to do with preventing it."
In the process of preventing harm, harm may occur. When two people are gunning eachother down, are the policemen suppose to ask them politely to stop what they are doing and shake hands?
"i think that we the people should be responsible for keeping our families safe. i think that karma should be the only force guiding our actions."
So what does that mean? Darwinism? Anarchism? Why would the governments tell their citizens they are on their own? They would only be achieving what I mentioned earlier. That would be totally unethical to families who weren't exactly suitable to protect themselves, and that would also mean families who aren't such classy citizens, could go around screwing up other families that can not protect themselves.. Not every family consists of a burley father, helpless woman, and 2 5 year old children (to put it cliche-ly).
...
I don't know, the rest of your idea's seemed to irrational to discuss. Put it this way, if the world is to be a Utopia (or just a 'better' place), some day (which is almost impossible to establish), you wouldn't be the right guy to establish it. Your hearts in the right place, but I don't think your imagination is. There are many flaws. Your idea's would cause chaos if they were put into action, and personally I'm not worried about what could evolve in times over half a millenium (if our earth doesn't rot by then).
RELAYER
12-13-2007, 08:43 PM
Why should a truck driver have to pay more money to use a road simply because he is on it more than someone who just drives a car? 3xi this is the kind of uneducated assumption made that is based on no real understanding of how the fabric of society works. Do you know anything about truck driving and how the money runs there? Here Ill break it down for you.
Let's say, a farmer for example, grows a crop. He wants to make money, so he sells it to a market in Hunts Point Bronx, NY. So how will it get there? A truck. So how does the truck get involved? The shipper calls contact brokerage compaines, of which there can be up to 5 or 10 broker compaines trying to sell one load, alone. Obviously, they all compete to get a truck company to take it for a lower price because they want more money from the shipper (farmer, in this case). The tuck company gets a certain percentage, which they then use to pay insurance on the truck and trailer, pay for deisel fuel (right now @ 3.47 a gallon), pay the driver a paycheck, pay the dispatcher, and pay for several other services which keep them legal with the DOT.
Now, you want to charge them MORE money just to legally do their job?
And this is just one, and probably the least important, examples you bring up.
dilligaf
12-13-2007, 09:00 PM
oh i tried to get thru that really long run on sentence http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/newsmilies/cuss.gif,,, but i had to breath somewhere around the police state chapter....
i however got thru the first pargraph with a few wits about me and ,,, how is helping yourself and your family selfish... We grow our own animals produce veggies etc here on the farm,,, we open our doors to teach others the same,,, isnt that doing your lil part in atleast some way form or fashion... when you bring up family further on down somewhere,,, i didnt read it honestly,,, but isnt just what i just typed part of taking care of our own??? I can only do so much,, i open my doors my way of life,,, requires others to want to do something and take those steps and so on and so forth,,,, i cant help it if if they choose to sit on there asses and type about it rather than do something about it ... in the end its up to us as individuals to make what we have better, noone else is going to do that for you,,,
Why should a truck driver have to pay more money to use a road simply because he is on it more than someone who just drives a car? 3xi this is the kind of uneducated assumption made that is based on no real understanding of how the fabric of society works. Do you know anything about truck driving and how the money runs there? Here Ill break it down for you.
Let's say, a farmer for example, grows a crop. He wants to make money, so he sells it to a market in Hunts Point Bronx, NY. So how will it get there? A truck. So how does the truck get involved? The shipper calls contact brokerage compaines, of which there can be up to 5 or 10 broker compaines trying to sell one load, alone. Obviously, they all compete to get a truck company to take it for a lower price because they want more money from the shipper (farmer, in this case). The tuck company gets a certain percentage, which they then use to pay insurance on the truck and trailer, pay for deisel fuel (right now @ 3.47 a gallon), pay the driver a paycheck, pay the dispatcher, and pay for several other services which keep them legal with the DOT.
Now, you want to charge them MORE money just to legally do their job?
And this is just one, and probably the least important, examples you bring up.the company would pay the extra fees to use the roads more. that wouldnt be a problem seeing that they would be saving money by not having to pay taxes.
what i suggest is fair.
if the cost of the delivery goes up then so be it. if we have to pay more for our fruit but we have to pay less in tax it evens it self out.
i dont think relayer actually understands what i am getting at. maybe it was my wording.
i am looking for a fair system. the only way to do this is with a pay as you go system.
why anyone would argue the need for tax is beyond me but does not surprise me in the least.
RELAYER
12-13-2007, 09:13 PM
the company would pay the extra fees to use the roads more. that wouldnt be a problem seeing that they would be saving money by not having to pay taxes.
what i suggest is fare.
if the cost of the delivery goes up then so be it. if we have to pay more for our fruit but we have to pay less in tax it evens it self out.
i dont think relayer actually understands what i am getting at. maybe it was my wording.
i am looking for a fare system. the only way to do this is with a pay as you go system.
why anyone would argue the need for tax is beyond me but does not surprise me in the least.
I just dont think it will work for one main reason alone 3xi, and that is that your average person will not want to pay more money for fruit! I mean if taxes were relieved on the carrier companies (which, as they are, are higher than most people realize) sure, maybe a monthly road fee MIGHT just slide. But there will always be competetion (freedom) to broker freight, and when you have carrier companies that are just trying to get home to their families on the weekend, they will take the cheap freight. It's just a big mess of people trying to squeeze a penny anywhere they can, and the man who actually does the real work, the driver, get's the lowest pay out of any of them. I mean, brokers of freight will make 2-300$$$ easy on one load, move 50 loads a day like that? And your rich. BUT, that's 2-300$$$ out of a truckers pocket while he is the one breaking his back to make sure the load is delivered.
killuminati
12-13-2007, 09:24 PM
the corruption is just too deep.. from our presidential history genology, to having ridiculous pretexts. there really isn't much we can do unfortunately. people will just learn the hard way.
To paragraph 2 -
I think you are thinking of the future to be more like a `Minority Report` (movie) type feel. While it may happen ions from now, it would take a VERY long time in America, or the world in general to reach a point where freedoms are violated to the point where you are busted the second you do something wrong. Why don't you think of 'how' that type of instance would be achieved? (Super advanced technology needed) .. That could, when they put sensory chips in all humans for "action" control... Huge freedom violation, wouldn't ever fly unless ALL the wrong people were in control (.. and all over the world), and that would be very hard..
To paragraph 3 -
"as for the police i think that they should become a rescue squad and have nothing to do with making arrests. they should have nothing to do with causing harm but everything to do with preventing it."
In the process of preventing harm, harm may occur. When two people are gunning eachother down, are the policemen suppose to ask them politely to stop what they are doing and shake hands?
"i think that we the people should be responsible for keeping our families safe. i think that karma should be the only force guiding our actions."
So what does that mean? Darwinism? Anarchism? Why would the governments tell their citizens they are on their own? They would only be achieving what I mentioned earlier. That would be totally unethical to families who weren't exactly suitable to protect themselves, and that would also mean families who aren't such classy citizens, could go around screwing up other families that can not protect themselves.. Not every family consists of a burley father, helpless woman, and 2 5 year old children (to put it cliche-ly).
...
I don't know, the rest of your idea's seemed to irrational to discuss. Put it this way, if the world is to be a Utopia (or just a 'better' place), some day (which is almost impossible to establish), you wouldn't be the right guy to establish it. Your hearts in the right place, but I don't think your imagination is. There are many flaws. Your idea's would cause chaos if they were put into action, and personally I'm not worried about what could evolve in times over half a millenium (if our earth doesn't rot by then).i think you should read the second paragraph again. i didnt say it would be easy and i agree that it would take a very long time.
my point is that our current system is not fair and we should be working towards something very different. i did mention that my ideas are not complete and that i did not have the solutions. i have some ideas. you come at it like i am trying to be the next world savior or something. i am not that stupid. i am just talking about it - the first and most important part of change. the reason i bring this up is so that i can better understand what it is that i want. all of my theories or suggestions would have to go through a very long process before they were ready to be put into place. the ideas i only brushed on because i am not going to spend all year writing a book that no one would read. plus i dont claim to know what we should do exactly. all i know is that this is not a free country and there are things that we can do to change the way things are. the changes i suggest are radical but are not impossible. like i said clearly in the second paragraph this is something that must be done in a way that will not have the system crashing down on us. i did not go into how to get from point a to point b because i dont know what that will be. all i know is it will take a long time and a lot of people working together. do i think that i will be the one to do this - no way in hell. could i be a part of it? sure, maybe even just as a small voice i make some sort of difference. do i have my doubts that we the people will ever be able to enjoy a free country - i sure do - especially with so many closed minded fearful people in the world.
rygoody
12-13-2007, 10:01 PM
At one point I started contemplating really complex schemes and methods to change the government and how people think.
But it made me crazy, it was too complex to think about it for one. Plus, what kind of underlying motives would make me do that?
3xi, although I agree completely with you that extreme changes need to happen. I think a complete 180 flip and then some into even an opposite dimension is necessary. Which maybe you can retool the functions of the government? Maybe thats what your here to do? But for me atleast, I can't think that way.
All I do is make sure I'm trying to my hardest to project the energy of love. So that other people can feel it and understand it. Also theres a fair bit of suggesting to people "mushrooms are pretty awesome" in that scheme.
Cause I think of it this way. Even if someone like Ron Paul did get elected, then down all through the mayor and governor positions, similar revolutionary type politicians got elected and reworked the entire government. The PEOPLE are still gonna be as angry and frustrated as they've ever been. IMO, there needs to be more change in the psyche and underlying beliefs of the people than there does in how the government operates.
You know as Leary and others outright prophesized. We need a consciousness shift, a mass awakening of possibility in people. The change is not going to come down from the government, thats playing the same game we are currently playing. The change needs to come up from the people.
Which, how much can you do with that right now really? Well it seemed in the 60's and 70's the one who awoke the most people were the philosophical and artistic. Christopher Hyatt said "Those who control the metaphor control the energy". It's a very literal thing to me. The energy of love goes to those who don't know it via metaphor. If you know the metaphors of love, you have the ability to control it among the people around you. It's been my personal goal in life to make everything I say, wear and act out to be a metaphor of love, as much as I can.
Although, one argument I've come up in the past months that I think is really good, one metaphor I should say is. "LSD should be used as a weapon" "We should make guns that shoot drops of LSD". Which right then when you say that to people, you get this look of shock and like something is wrong with you. But then you have the ability to back that up with "Well you can disagree with me, but understand with that, your agreeing to bullets. You may think I'm weird for suggesting we shoot LSD at people who think they've gained the right to kill another, but I think your even crazier for suggesting we shoot bullets at them" or "I prefer to live my life by the rules of, do to others as you would like done to yourself, now certainly if I became neurotic enough to start gunning down people, I would want nothing more than you to give me a good strong dose of LSD to set my mind straight". The argument is actually pretty damn foolproof from my experience thus far. You can argue it with the most anti-drug or even your mom and you come out sounding more rational than the bullet-loving people. You know "You dont have to physically kill people, just psychologically kill people".
Anyways I kind went off track there. I'm just saying, is focusing at the government and policy level truly the solution?
I pretty much agree completely with this
"I think any reasonable person can conclude that the redemption of the world, if it's to be achieved, can only be achieved through magic. It's too late for science. It's too late for hortatory politics."
-Terence McKenna
I say it is time we work harder to resurrect the 'magic' from the ancient days. What is 'magic'? Well if you've read McKennas other stuff, it is Magic Mushrooms! It is LSD. It is spiritual or magick practice while on hallucinogens. I don't see how anything else is going to be efficient enough or let enough people "get the point" to make a change.
Even completely sober Western Buddhists who have been at it for over a decade still have barely touched on getting it, atleast the ones I've met. This isn't to negate Tibetan Buddhists or the hundreds of truly sober enlightened over in India or wherever that do get it, as they get it way more than me I will admit. But I do completely agree with McKenna and also Leary that for the western world, LSD is pretty much God's gift for us to fix it. Nothing else really can. The solution is quite literally the Archaic Revival, people are having to rediscover the ancient reality tunnels because the western reality tunnel has failed. We all need to step back to the last one that worked flawlessly.
Plus I know for me personally, if it weren't for mushrooms, notably LSD. I probably wouldn't even be here discussing this.
Which hey, I may have to live in a little hut out in a forest commune, growing my own vegetables, playing drums and writing poetry. But if it's in a little village of people I love, that sounds completely awesome to me, I couldn't imagine a better life really.
In short, I've found if I wanna change the whole to perfection. First I must work on changing myself to perfection.
r3m3dy
12-13-2007, 10:18 PM
your system sounds good but the country would end up being run by the mafia or a similar criminal organization.
neodude1212
12-13-2007, 10:19 PM
yeah...im gonna have to side with relayer on this one.
i mean, our government is screwed up obviously. every government in the world right now is screwed up. yes we have serious flaws, and things could be A LOT better, but at the same time, they could be A LOT worse. when you look at the big picture....we really don't have it that bad here. especially not compared to the rest of the world. taxes are necessary to run a functioning government, and despite what you may believe, functioning government is needed. not everyone wants to be proactive in their lives and change things and strive towards the better. most ppl are happy right where they are. does that make them stupid or inferior? no. it makes them happy.
All im trying to say is, the government is always going to appeal to the majority.
in regards to the police and military thing.....not everyone out there is full of love. some ppl would hurt you just to do it. sometimes premptive attacks are better in the long run...
At one point I started contemplating really complex schemes and methods to change the government and how people think.
But it made me crazy, it was too complex to think about it for one. Plus, what kind of underlying motives would make me do that?
3xi, although I agree completely with you that extreme changes need to happen. I think a complete 180 flip and then some into even an opposite dimension is necessary. Which maybe you can retool the functions of the government? Maybe thats what your here to do? But for me atleast, I can't think that way.
All I do is make sure I'm trying to my hardest to project the energy of love. So that other people can feel it and understand it. Also theres a fair bit of suggesting to people "mushrooms are pretty awesome" in that scheme.
Cause I think of it this way. Even if someone like Ron Paul did get elected, then down all through the mayor and governor positions, similar revolutionary type politicians got elected and reworked the entire government. The PEOPLE are still gonna be as angry and frustrated as they've ever been. IMO, there needs to be more change in the psyche and underlying beliefs of the people than there does in how the government operates.
You know as Leary and others outright prophesized. We need a consciousness shift, a mass awakening of possibility in people. The change is not going to come down from the government, thats playing the same game we are currently playing. The change needs to come up from the people.
Which, how much can you do with that right now really? Well it seemed in the 60's and 70's the one who awoke the most people were the philosophical and artistic. Christopher Hyatt said "Those who control the metaphor control the energy". It's a very literal thing to me. The energy of love goes to those who don't know it via metaphor. If you know the metaphors of love, you have the ability to control it among the people around you. It's been my personal goal in life to make everything I say, wear and act out to be a metaphor of love, as much as I can.
Although, one argument I've come up in the past months that I think is really good, one metaphor I should say is. "LSD should be used as a weapon" "We should make guns that shoot drops of LSD". Which right then when you say that to people, you get this look of shock and like something is wrong with you. But then you have the ability to back that up with "Well you can disagree with me, but understand with that, your agreeing to bullets. You may think I'm weird for suggesting we shoot LSD at people who think they've gained the right to kill another, but I think your even crazier for suggesting we shoot bullets at them" or "I prefer to live my life by the rules of, do to others as you would like done to yourself, now certainly if I became neurotic enough to start gunning down people, I would want nothing more than you to give me a good strong dose of LSD to set my mind straight". The argument is actually pretty damn foolproof from my experience thus far. You can argue it with the most anti-drug or even your mom and you come out sounding more rational than the bullet-loving people. You know "You dont have to physically kill people, just psychologically kill people".
Anyways I kind went off track there. I'm just saying, is focusing at the government and policy level truly the solution?
I pretty much agree completely with this
"I think any reasonable person can conclude that the redemption of the world, if it's to be achieved, can only be achieved through magic. It's too late for science. It's too late for hortatory politics."
-Terence McKenna
I say it is time we work harder to resurrect the 'magic' from the ancient days. What is 'magic'? Well if you've read McKennas other stuff, it is Magic Mushrooms! It is LSD. It is spiritual or magick practice while on hallucinogens. I don't see how anything else is going to be efficient enough or let enough people "get the point" to make a change.
Even completely sober Western Buddhists who have been at it for over a decade still have barely touched on getting it, atleast the ones I've met. This isn't to negate Tibetan Buddhists or the hundreds of truly sober enlightened over in India or wherever that do get it, as they get it way more than me I will admit. But I do completely agree with McKenna and also Leary that for the western world, LSD is pretty much God's gift for us to fix it. Nothing else really can. The solution is quite literally the Archaic Revival, people are having to rediscover the ancient reality tunnels because the western reality tunnel has failed. We all need to step back to the last one that worked flawlessly.
Plus I know for me personally, if it weren't for mushrooms, notably LSD. I probably wouldn't even be here discussing this.
Which hey, I may have to live in a little hut out in a forest commune, growing my own vegetables, playing drums and writing poetry. But if it's in a little village of people I love, that sounds completely awesome to me, I couldn't imagine a better life really.
In short, I've found if I wanna change the whole to perfection. First I must work on changing myself to perfection.you make some very good points
and i agree that a change has to be made in the hearts of the people. actually i think that the kind of change that i am suggesting would be impossible without some sort of change in the hearts and minds of the people. at this point in time it may seem pointless to imagine what society could be like but then again change would never happen if people didnt talk about it first.
i am a musician, i write music that i hope one day reaches out to millions of people in a way that will achieve what you are suggesting. i hope to be a part of making psychedelic drugs popular again. i believe the magic you are talking about will come about through psychedelic music. music is magic. once people wake up they can start to work their own magic whether that be with music, painting, public speaking or even just being a wonderful loving family member. as these types of changes happen in the hearts and minds of the people the possibility of drastic changes in the government will improve. we need to learn how to be better more loving people. we all need to make the change at home first. the more families living in a place of love the better the chances that we can do something about our horribly rotten government.
rygoody
12-13-2007, 10:45 PM
Yes, the thing is. Theres many people who are spreading love around right now. Thousands of people collectively doing it.
Understand this is just my personal thought process, but I think of it in terms of "how can I get people to do LSD, that haven't". As skewingly Leary as that is. That is really a great way to think about it. Well if you are the kindest, most endearing, loving person that just gets along with everyone. And the voice of LSD is coming from you. Then you might actually do some good.
Just make sure your always doing it from love, from the full want to see them flourish happily and fully. Not so that at the end you can say 'I told you so'.
You know I really don't think the problem is that we haven't thought up a solution.
The problem is, no one is willing to listen to the people who have thought up the solution. I think it really does just come down to, if your an LSD or mushroom incarnate, how do you get people to respect/trust you and then inadvertently, LSD or mushrooms as well? You know, this is crazy to say, but we are the voice of the mushroom for humankind. People who have decided to recognize it for what it truly is, they do become the human voice for it. Make sure you speak it as it truly is.
And music is an AMAZING metaphor, magick. But don't negate visual communication as well. It's just as important.
rygoody - what you said about shooting people with LSD made me think of something. if someone was to break into my home i would probably not have it in me to kill the person but it sure would be fun to kick them out of my house after i dosed them with some LSD. not sure if that is the best idea but it is better than hurting them.
elfin1mf
12-14-2007, 03:50 AM
"your system sounds good but the country would end up being run by the mafia or a similar criminal organization. " - WAKE UP DAMNIT! What do you think the police are? the fbi, cia, dea, atf... ALL basically mafia of the highest level. They are levying taxes on illegal trade! That is their main function. If you really understand organized crime then you know its close relationship with these organizations.
PS: I believe that minority report IS already a reality today and that it just does not manifest to the general public. If you are a serious criminal or are very keen you will understand why I say this.
3xi your ideas are very rough and need refinement and new perspective, but you have already stated this. Later I will join your online quest and break down/ refine each point you made but I am not feeling up to it mentally right now. I am going to go off into the woods to meditate and clear my mind before I attempt to get my thoughts 100% together.
mara-aum
12-14-2007, 04:51 AM
It’s been a long time….the last time I was on here the conversations tended to run in circles and I got bored. Lately there has been a shift in so many of you…conversation is getting deeper and far more interesting.
3xi’s visions of a potential future sound eerily similar to a book I read several years ago: “Conversations with God” by Neal Walsh. He made it all sound so simple and easy…and POSSIBLE! I read this book long before I met 3xi & I know for a fact that he’s never read it. (and yes relayer I am his wife but I still don’t see why it matters or that I have to prove it—I never did understand that thread) I’m curious to see where this conversation of utopia goes-I can’t wait to hear what elfin1mf has to say on his ideas.
When I read rygoody’s note on shooting people with lsd—BRILLIANT! BRILLIANT! I have often thought that if the majority of humanity did lsd it would be a far different world…better world—but then again, that would interfere with their freedom of choice-but so does a bullet. At least the lsd wears off….death isn’t so easy to shake lol.
rygoody
12-14-2007, 08:25 AM
Ya... I really do think they need to replace bullets with LSD. I mean imagine if that happened world round.
I was actually watching this video that said the US government was experimenting with LSD for that exact purpose. To release it from airplanes somehow in which it would blanket areas. Massly dosing people. It was this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvVLGskCQo
The reason for not continuing the idea was "the dosing is rather diffucult to control"? Really, that sort of thinking just puzzles me beyond belief.
"We cant give the enemy soldiers too much LSD, so instead we will just continue killing them".
Thats the most absurd thing I've ever heard. It really makes me wonder, what exactly did they abandon the idea for?
After they dosed the enemies, did no US soldier want to go kill a bunch of people sitting around staring at trees?
Or would they just have to gather them all up as POW's and overfill jails and waste funding. So just kill them on the spot instead?
It really makes me wonder.
I have heard stories though, back in the 60's. Some people would put LSD in squirt guns. When the cops would come, they'd squirt the cops, dose them quite hard. Supposedly, cops eventually just kept there distance from parties where they knew it could happen. Atleast, thats what I heard.
Shapeshifter
12-14-2007, 10:29 AM
You see there is no law witch can stop me from doing something that I feel is right (take LSD as an example), but also even if something is not defined by law and I feel it is wrong, I will never do it. So, until there is a shift in people's consciousnes, so they know what is right and wrong and stick to that, this change that we are talking about is impossible. Maybe we need another ice age, or any other catastophy, so who survives, survives with different consciousnes, with higher respect for nature and its laws. Or a mass dosing of LSD, or some similar thing, witch might happen by "mistake" and awakes humanity. Untill all the people are on that level, it is useless to talk about better place, utopia and similar things. You see, you can have 10 million people living in utopia, and only 10 people who are not, and they will fuck up everything for everybody. Human are like cancer, and until that is changed, we can only imagine and live in our imagination. But, awaking more and people and making more and more families witch are raising their kids by law of love and care, will make more "new human" who are ready for that long waited better place. I think that is the only thing that we can do for now, to try to awake as much as we can.
RELAYER
12-14-2007, 02:51 PM
(and yes relayer I am his wife but I still don’t see why it matters or that I have to prove it—I never did understand that thread)
Aw man Im sorry mara. I realize I cant ask you to forgive me and let it go but since you brought up my past rediculous, childish, foolish, and offensive post I have to at least apologize. Take it for what it's worth but just know that I love you both and would never again intentionally try and hurt you or your husband, nor anyone else for that matter, wether they deserve it or not. Ok, sorry for the off topic reply, just had to get that off my chest.
Namaste Family -
You see there is no law witch can stop me from doing something that I feel is right (take LSD as an example), but also even if something is not defined by law and I feel it is wrong, I will never do it. So, until there is a shift in people's consciousnes, so they know what is right and wrong and stick to that, this change that we are talking about is impossible. Maybe we need another ice age, or any other catastophy, so who survives, survives with different consciousnes, with higher respect for nature and its laws. Or a mass dosing of LSD, or some similar thing, witch might happen by "mistake" and awakes humanity. Untill all the people are on that level, it is useless to talk about better place, utopia and similar things. You see, you can have 10 million people living in utopia, and only 10 people who are not, and they will fuck up everything for everybody. Human are like cancer, and until that is changed, we can only imagine and live in our imagination. But, awaking more and people and making more and more families witch are raising their kids by law of love and care, will make more "new human" who are ready for that long waited better place. I think that is the only thing that we can do for now, to try to awake as much as we can.i think that realizing how society could be better is far better than thinking that there is nothing we can do about the situation and just sitting there taking it in the ass with a smile on our faces.
it seems most people would rather live in denial.
whether or not this type of change is possible at any time in the future is actually impossible to know. suggesting that we should not even think about this kind of change because it must be impossible would be giving up and with that belief it would become impossible. if more and more people were to imagine how the world could be better we would be one step closer to a free world.
it is far better to believe that we can change the world for the better than it is to settle with what we have because the change seems impossible.
throughout human history we have gone through many changes that seemed impossible by millions until it happened. that is just the way it goes. the truth is that if it were not for the people who believed that change was possible we would have gotten no where!
mara-aum
12-14-2007, 04:26 PM
Aw man Im sorry mara. I realize I cant ask you to forgive me and let it go but since you brought up my past rediculous, childish, foolish, and offensive post I have to at least apologize. Take it for what it's worth but just know that I love you both and would never again intentionally try and hurt you or your husband, nor anyone else for that matter, wether they deserve it or not. Ok, sorry for the off topic reply, just had to get that off my chest.
Namaste Family -
namaste soul brother
its all good
mara-aum
12-14-2007, 04:32 PM
Untill all the people are on that level, it is useless to talk about better place, utopia and similar things. You see, you can have 10 million people living in utopia, and only 10 people who are not, and they will fuck up everything for everybody. Human are like cancer, and until that is changed, we can only imagine and live in our imagination. But, awaking more and people and making more and more families witch are raising their kids by law of love and care, will make more "new human" who are ready for that long waited better place. I think that is the only thing that we can do for now, to try to awake as much as we can.
how sad. if everyone thought this then slavery would still be here, segregation, witch burnings and the like. if ghandi believed like you then the brittish would still be ruling india, cmon brother--have faith! one person CAN change the world...it has happened more than once. imagine if mass populations aligned their energies & intention???? a shift in global conciousness is guaranteed!!!! its the reason so many lightworkers are alive at THIS time in human history. not a millenium away.....the shift is NOW! its already happening & it has been happening for some time.
Books like Celestine Prophesies, The Secret etc....look at how "mainstream" these ideas have now become--enough to land them on Oprah....people ARE waking up.
Its our human nature to evolve. We are an evolving species.
mara-aum
12-14-2007, 04:35 PM
I have heard stories though, back in the 60's. Some people would put LSD in squirt guns. When the cops would come, they'd squirt the cops, dose them quite hard. Supposedly, cops eventually just kept there distance from parties where they knew it could happen. Atleast, thats what I heard.hahahahahahahahahaha....if there was anyone that ever did need a squirt with lsd its a cop!!! GREAT visual!
RELAYER
12-14-2007, 04:53 PM
Its our human nature to evolve. We are an evolving species.
It's when people realize that Cosmic Consciousness, illumination, enlightenment, God-Realization, Self-Realization, moksha, Sat Chit Ananda, Bliss ever new and never ending, and divine perception of God (all the same things with different names) are results of evolution and not just some magical 'chosen one' experience, that will cause this massive shift of collective universal consciousness.
It is not something that a few people get and then through divine magnetism welcome others into Heaven (like how Christians tend to think Jesus died to open the gates ((metaphor)) ) alone, but it is through their example that started with one person and branched out into the forefront of consciousness of many. Like how humanity evolved into a state where all humans see in color, have sense of fragrance added to scent, have appreciation for music, and have gained a sense of morality, so cosmic consciousness is just another advance in evolution that we are all moving towards.
It is not a matter of being impossible or possible, it is only a matter of time.
how sad. if everyone thought this then slavery would still be here, segregation, witch burnings and the like. if ghandi believed like you then the brittish would still be ruling india, cmon brother--have faith! one person CAN change the world...it has happened more than once. imagine if mass populations aligned their energies & intention???? a shift in global conciousness is guaranteed!!!! its the reason so many lightworkers are alive at THIS time in human history. not a millenium away.....the shift is NOW! its already happening & it has been happening for some time.
Books like Celestine Prophesies, The Secret etc....look at how "mainstream" these ideas have now become--enough to land them on Oprah....people ARE waking up.
Its our human nature to evolve. We are an evolving species.in some way slavery still exists. not in the way it used to but disguised as tax. i am not sure what taxes are like around the world but here in canada we have to work at least one day a week just to pay the tax. i do not benefit from all of the tax i pay - a lot of my money gets spent on things i do not need or want. with so many people abusing the system and so much money being wasted on redundant jobs, high wages, write offs and full time government workers with nothing to do all day but socialize. just to name a few of the many ways that my money is being wasted. you see, part of the time i am working for someone else - this is a form of slavery. i have to work real hard to make only $30,000 a year and a part of that money goes to making sure that some shmuck gets $100,000 a year to sit on his ass and make bad decisions... why do they have to take a piece of my pie? - because they havent figured out a system that is fair, yet!
i am sure that there are millions of people around the world who feel like the money that the government takes from them is being wasted. i think it would be very hard to find anyone who is satisfied with the current system. if you do find someone it is because they have never really paid attention to what is going on.
why would anyone want to have a corrupt system decide what happens to their hard earned money?
great post mara-aum, what would i do without you?
RELAYER
12-14-2007, 05:55 PM
I know how you feel 3xi. Being a single father and supporting my apartment, my bills, my daycare charge, feeding and clothing my son and buying him fun things for Christmas and birthdays, doctor bills because I have no insurance, etc. really hurts my position. I barely have time to even spend free with my son to get to know him and teach him, because I only make $20,000.00 a year and I let his mother claim him, so I dont get a tax break (even though I should) come April. Last year I owed over $5,000.00. Im on parole for the next 3 years and had my liscence revoked, charged with a crime that I didnt even commit (hit and run, its too long to go into details so youll just have to take my word that I am innocent). And I have to pay a monthly fee just to BE OUT OF JAIL! And they expect me to go twice a week to check in and take a drug test, yet the place is 45 minutes away from my work and they make me call out of work just to go in the first place. I have to walk to work and I gave my sons mom my car, for free! because hers broke down. I work overtime at least 20 hours a week just to have money to get by, and this past weekend his mother got in a horrible car crash and had emergency brain surgery to fix a blood clot that grew to 1/3 the size of her brain. So now I am on full time in charge of taking care of my son, and obviously am unable to work overtime. So everyone I know can pretty much forget recieving any nice christmas presents this year, including my own son. The goverment has fucked me in numerous way, too numerous to count. I barely have any free time because I dont get paid what I should, and then the gov. wants my taxes as well. I dont accept welfare and I dont accept WIK checks. I buy my sons milk and food with money that I work for because I refuse to have money handed to me even though that's what its there for, people who have children and are struggling to get by.
But I dont make my life out to be some horrendous tragedy that is out of my hands, even when I spent time in jail and now my parole situation I accept as an adult and deal with it. I take responsibility for my mistakes and even when I am innocent I just accept my fate and deal with it. But I have the edge over the majority of people that no one seems to be able to figure out (save for you guys on this forum and a few friends I know personally) where my optimism, constant blessing of people, happyness, and willingness to accept comes from. I have come to terms with God as the Absolute. I have realized that even if I am sitting, rotting away in jail for something that was not my fault, the one thing no one can ever take away from me is MY own ability to make myself happy and to see God in everything. No matter how hard this life may treat all of us, it does not matter. The present lifetime is a test, and if we sit around and complain about it, we are failing. It takes an ability to see that Nature, of which we are all born out of and die right back into, is an illusion. A dulaistic karmic binding test that we need to break through.
I am with you 3xi, if I could have MY own money that I earn and not share it with a goverment and with a lot of civilians who abuse that money and dont really need it (people who are lazy in the inner city ghettos, trust me, I am on state parole and have talked to people who dont feel like getting a job and would rather sell coke and leech off welfare) I would be much better off and financially secure. I dont even take the money that people pay taxes into that I could very easily accept because I do not believe in that sort of taxation. I could understand if I were to accept the welfare that I would pay taxes with a smile. But I dont, and I dont think its fair. But, whatever, as of right now that's how it is and I just have to go along with that part of the system in order to make sure my son is not taken away from me.
Things will change, like I said it is only a matter of time.
But for now, I think your dream is honourable and respectable 3xi, no matter how initially flawed it may be in certain aspects. I dont wish to contribute to trying to down play your dream because it is the dreamer s who make life interesting. Just keep holding onto your hope and with enough will power, positive energy and an honest Love for your fellow family of humans, every little bit helps. Even just thought has a tangible vibrational effect on that which it is intended.
Good luck and good health
Om shanti and namaste family, keep your head up, and I love you all :)
neodude1212
12-14-2007, 08:58 PM
wow you guys are getting pretty radical in here.
i dont understand why everyone is so against cops. what do they do, besides enforce the law? do you really think that is a bad thing? i mean really? listen...like it or not....a utopia is never ever ever ever ever ever ever going to exist. ever. people aren't capable of that. and spraying everyone with acid to force them to think like you is just wrong. that is no better than what you accuse the government of doing, whether it "enlightens you" or not.
RELAYER
12-14-2007, 09:04 PM
Neodude some cops are just doing there job and honestly want to help people. But growing up in SW Philadelphia, I can assure you, a LOT of police officers are out to hurt people and be pricks just because they are selfish, careless people. I've been the victim of police brutality more than once, and the first time it happened, one of my friends who was black got the shit beat out of him (at 16 years old) for having a 20$ bag of cocaine in his shoe. And I mean he was knocked the **** out
killuminati
12-14-2007, 09:28 PM
and spraying everyone with acid to force them to think like you is just wrong. that is no better than what you accuse the government of doing, whether it "enlightens you" or not.that's exactly right...
too bad nobody was even remotely close to suggesting that
that's exactly right...
too bad nobody was even remotely close to suggesting thatwell you are wrong there.
rygoody - what you said about shooting people with LSD made me think of something. if someone was to break into my home i would probably not have it in me to kill the person but it sure would be fun to kick them out of my house after i dosed them with some LSD. not sure if that is the best idea but it is better than hurting them.when i say i am not sure if that is the best idea i mean that i probably could never do such a thing. the idea of dosing some intruder may seem like a good idea right now but when it came down to it i think all i could really do is knock them out and remove him from my house. i believe we should all have the freedom to choose and make up our own minds. honesty i think the only way to go is to influence others in a way that will have them taking the LSD by their own free will. anyone who has done enough LSD knows about the drugs abilities to wake people up so it is no surprise that some people see LSD as the answer to a lot of the problems we face in the modern world. if more people did LSD the world would be a better place i am sure. maybe i should dose mara-aum's glass of milk tonight so that she can have a powerful trip before she has to go to work in the morning and see how she likes the idea then...lol... really, it is not a good idea to force anyone to do anything unless you want to deal with the bad karma.
so, my official stand point is that dosing someone with LSD in attempts to wake them up is not the best idea! i am not saying that it is a bad idea but i would never be able to do it myself.
elfin1mf
12-14-2007, 11:20 PM
I absolutely agree with you about society and sometimes think it would be best if I and my closest friends just moved out to a mountain top in northern Canada away from civilization and built a nice home.Then of course I start to convince myself that that is selfish and the world needs people who can tell them important advice and brighten their maudlin fueled lives. We will advance past this darkness as a majority, and I do not believe that it is too far away from happening. Law enforcement in the United States is extremely corrupt despite what some people think. Cops driven by adrenaline are some of the most violent drug addicts on the face of this planet. They come with rifles, they come with superiority complexes to destroy the lives of far too many peaceful and many times completely innocent families. It has happened to many of us including me. It seems that not a day goes by that the news does not broadcast senseless police brutality. The real criminals almost never go down because they are the ones who pay the law enforcement community. Just a week ago I remember seeing "inncoent def man tazered while taking shower after police broke in and destroyed his home" Bullying tactics like these are out of hand damnit and too many good people have been physically and financially beaten in to submission by squads of blood thirsty animals. They serve and protect the wealthiest people who can do whatever they want, while they force the majority into compliance with every backwards law that they can no matter how many constitutional and human rights they violate. They are brainwashed into believing that they are doing the moral thing but this is such a disgusting lie at times it sickens me.
"peter popper mentioned something in another thread about how in the future the police will be able to bust you within seconds for doing something illigal." - I believe the only reason they do not is because it would be too obvious. We have to do everything we can to make the public aware that if everyone stands against this travesty of bullying together, then we can get something accomplished for peace, love and spiritual evolution. One of my favorite quotes ever is by Muhammad Ali. "I know I got it made while the masses of people are catchin' hell, but as long as they ain't free, I ain't free." He was talking about black people but it is definitely universal for everyone. If no one follows the rule at all, they will have no room to put everyone in prison, not to mention the economy would fall apart with everyone behind bars. They can't lock everyone up and they can't kill everyone.
"as for the police i think that they should become a rescue squad and have nothing to do with making arrests." This is exactly what should happen, couldnt have said it better myself. As it is, police seem to be doing just the opposite in many cases. They lock up more non-violent people than violent ones. In a situation where someone could get killed, the rescue squad should use lsd in order to immobilize people because it is better than death! "another example - someone breaks into my house but i can not hurt them in anyway or i will be breaking the law - instead i have call 911 and hope the guy doesnt hurt us before the police get there. if we were given the freedom to kill anyone who entered our home i am sure there would be a lot less home invasions going on." I am pretty much in agreeance here. Police do nothing for someone in this situation because they do not arrive until it is too late. Rape is the same way. If someone really wants to kill someone else, it is unable to be prevented. The best measure against crime is to let the victim become empowered. In our society many people seem to act like weak helpless victims.
We are born into a situation where we are told what to think and do, we need a new age of self empowerment. We need to base our morals on what we believe is right from experience, not from what someone else tells us. Television commercials could support these views instead of guilt tripping pacifists who smoke pot. We really do need a stronger community among people as well. Instead of pointless political crap we should have meetings for each street, each section of people. We should focus our meetings on voting on emergency measures in case of a crime. If a crime is committed against one person in an area, the entire area should come together to defend their brother or sister. We need to discuss the real issues and form our own sub-governments. I am open to ideas about this issue, and will attempt to elaborate further after hearing suggestions and opinions.
If we want a better world, these close relationships with our neighbors key.
"there is something very wrong with a country that says you live in a free country as long as you follow their rules!!!" - This should be the new slogan we advertise on television. Most people watch the idiotbox and allow their lives to be manipulated by sitcoms and rediculously blatant hidden meanings in commercials which always say something to the effect of 'you will never be happy without this product'. This needs to change, it is a flaw in capitalism.
The pay as you go tax system is very easy to accomplish and would definately help to get things done. It is already starting to happen in places, express ways in California that you must pay to use and such. The only problem here is price fiixing. Different compamies would make agreements to jack up all the prices and we would need some way to make sure that this never got out of hand. We cannot get rid of the economic system all together of course, we need to make sure that corporations do not wage violent murderous wars against each other, although globally this appears to happen all too often. A prime example is the war in the middle east. Huge corportations battling it out with murder of brainwashed troops. The local government is the best way to act independantly as a people of these corporations forcing their rules on us with bullying.
"like i said we need a system that works. no one wants to go back in time." I think that time is pretty cyclical and repeats very frequently. If we can ussure in a new era of peace we could break this cycle, but it is going to take a majority banding together.
"TAX IS WRONG -" YES. Instead of tax we need people to pay funds directly to school systems and hospitals. People should pay for their services and have these systems run as the businesses they are without lining the pockets of unnecesary people. Medicine has long been repressed because it is not profitable to cure disease, it is only profitable to sell drugs to people that will only force them to take more drugs. We need free market in medicine in order to actualize the benefits of real cures. I believe lsd can cure some types of mental disorders. I believe that marijauana is a miracle drug for the truly ill and should be used OTC for pain management. This war against the real medicines in order to boost sales of inferior dangerous ailments is disgusting, but I do not know how we could change it. Certain antioxidant extracts have recently been recognized for their potential to ward off most disease including cancer. People need to be aware of this! Again, this should be advertised on television instead of advertising for horrible under-researched dangerous drugs. For instance, 'Ever feel as though you are missing something in life? Is your selfishness or confusing desire dragging your life into depression and anxiety? Ask your doctor about LSD-25'
"we could all have an account on line under our social security number where we decide what services we want to subscribe to. i would transfer my money every month to all the services that i need. kinda like what we do now for our hydro and telephone. " - Very good suggestion but still we need to have a way to make sure that price fixing does not occur in these services.
Health care is important right now, and we need some way to pay our funds to the right people directly. We cannot have anymore funds wasted lining some richmans pocket while there are people suffering who cannot afford to be serviced. Again, if medicine where not repressed, soo many less people would ever need healthcare in the first place.
The fire department should be exactly how you described it, good thinking.
Our education system is so faulty right now, we need reform their as well. Honestly I believe that it should all be done online. Parents choose which courses to enroll their children in and forums will be there to help out anyone looking for guidance. Librarys would become the new schools, they would be huge and filled with computers. Everyone with a child or a love of knowledge could come to the library for further mediation and guidance.
The military needs to be strictly for defense, no questions asked. These corporate wars are getting more and more pointless.
it seems most people would rather live in denial. Too true my friend too true. I can sense the grief of denial in the masses each day I face them. I can see it in their eyes. I can see it in their gestures. I can see it in their actions and hear it in their words. A change is upon us.
killuminati
12-15-2007, 04:51 AM
rolf, wtf!? i know the government contemplated spraying lsd on opposing soldiers, but that was before they knew the effects.
i just thought neodude was being an ass, my bad.
i don't even want to think about what the administration would do if such a dumb thing happened.
mara-aum
12-15-2007, 06:31 AM
maybe i should dose mara-aum's glass of milk tonight so that she can have a powerful trip before she has to go to work in the morning and see how she likes the idea then...lol... .touchee.....good point. as much as i like dosing out--set & setting is everything & to have it "sprung" on you would not be fun....and therefore wouldn't likely achieve the desired effect.
it happened to a friend once. she was going through a terrible trajedy and some guy she knew snuck it in her food. she said they had floral wallpaper and to her the vines were moving and closing in on her...she really believed she was losing her mind. it was her worst moment in life and it has turned her off lsd for good.
spike my milk 3xi???????? hahahahahahaha..........too funny!
mara-aum
12-15-2007, 06:47 AM
I absolutely agree with you about society and sometimes think it would be best if I and my closest friends just moved out to a mountain top in northern Canada away from civilization and built a nice home.Then of course I start to convince myself that that is selfish and the world needs people who can tell them important advice and brighten their maudlin fueled lives. We will advance past this darkness as a majority, and I do not believe that it is too far away from happening. Law enforcement in the United States is extremely corrupt despite what some people think. Cops driven by adrenaline are some of the most violent drug addicts on the face of this planet. They come with rifles, they come with superiority complexes to destroy the lives of far too many peaceful and many times completely innocent families. It has happened to many of us including me. It seems that not a day goes by that the news does not broadcast senseless police brutality. The real criminals almost never go down because they are the ones who pay the law enforcement community. Just a week ago I remember seeing "inncoent def man tazered while taking shower after police broke in and destroyed his home" Bullying tactics like these are out of hand damnit and too many good people have been physically and financially beaten in to submission by squads of blood thirsty animals. They serve and protect the wealthiest people who can do whatever they want, while they force the majority into compliance with every backwards law that they can no matter how many constitutional and human rights they violate. They are brainwashed into believing that they are doing the moral thing but this is such a disgusting lie at times it sickens me.
"peter popper mentioned something in another thread about how in the future the police will be able to bust you within seconds for doing something illigal." - I believe the only reason they do not is because it would be too obvious. We have to do everything we can to make the public aware that if everyone stands against this travesty of bullying together, then we can get something accomplished for peace, love and spiritual evolution. One of my favorite quotes ever is by Muhammad Ali. "I know I got it made while the masses of people are catchin' hell, but as long as they ain't free, I ain't free." He was talking about black people but it is definitely universal for everyone. If no one follows the rule at all, they will have no room to put everyone in prison, not to mention the economy would fall apart with everyone behind bars. They can't lock everyone up and they can't kill everyone.
"as for the police i think that they should become a rescue squad and have nothing to do with making arrests." This is exactly what should happen, couldnt have said it better myself. As it is, police seem to be doing just the opposite in many cases. They lock up more non-violent people than violent ones. In a situation where someone could get killed, the rescue squad should use lsd in order to immobilize people because it is better than death! "another example - someone breaks into my house but i can not hurt them in anyway or i will be breaking the law - instead i have call 911 and hope the guy doesnt hurt us before the police get there. if we were given the freedom to kill anyone who entered our home i am sure there would be a lot less home invasions going on." I am pretty much in agreeance here. Police do nothing for someone in this situation because they do not arrive until it is too late. Rape is the same way. If someone really wants to kill someone else, it is unable to be prevented. The best measure against crime is to let the victim become empowered. In our society many people seem to act like weak helpless victims.
We are born into a situation where we are told what to think and do, we need a new age of self empowerment. We need to base our morals on what we believe is right from experience, not from what someone else tells us. Television commercials could support these views instead of guilt tripping pacifists who smoke pot. We really do need a stronger community among people as well. Instead of pointless political crap we should have meetings for each street, each section of people. We should focus our meetings on voting on emergency measures in case of a crime. If a crime is committed against one person in an area, the entire area should come together to defend their brother or sister. We need to discuss the real issues and form our own sub-governments. I am open to ideas about this issue, and will attempt to elaborate further after hearing suggestions and opinions.
If we want a better world, these close relationships with our neighbors key.
"there is something very wrong with a country that says you live in a free country as long as you follow their rules!!!" - This should be the new slogan we advertise on television. Most people watch the idiotbox and allow their lives to be manipulated by sitcoms and rediculously blatant hidden meanings in commercials which always say something to the effect of 'you will never be happy without this product'. This needs to change, it is a flaw in capitalism.
The pay as you go tax system is very easy to accomplish and would definately help to get things done. It is already starting to happen in places, express ways in California that you must pay to use and such. The only problem here is price fiixing. Different compamies would make agreements to jack up all the prices and we would need some way to make sure that this never got out of hand. We cannot get rid of the economic system all together of course, we need to make sure that corporations do not wage violent murderous wars against each other, although globally this appears to happen all too often. A prime example is the war in the middle east. Huge corportations battling it out with murder of brainwashed troops. The local government is the best way to act independantly as a people of these corporations forcing their rules on us with bullying.
"like i said we need a system that works. no one wants to go back in time." I think that time is pretty cyclical and repeats very frequently. If we can ussure in a new era of peace we could break this cycle, but it is going to take a majority banding together.
"TAX IS WRONG -" YES. Instead of tax we need people to pay funds directly to school systems and hospitals. People should pay for their services and have these systems run as the businesses they are without lining the pockets of unnecesary people. Medicine has long been repressed because it is not profitable to cure disease, it is only profitable to sell drugs to people that will only force them to take more drugs. We need free market in medicine in order to actualize the benefits of real cures. I believe lsd can cure some types of mental disorders. I believe that marijauana is a miracle drug for the truly ill and should be used OTC for pain management. This war against the real medicines in order to boost sales of inferior dangerous ailments is disgusting, but I do not know how we could change it. Certain antioxidant extracts have recently been recognized for their potential to ward off most disease including cancer. People need to be aware of this! Again, this should be advertised on television instead of advertising for horrible under-researched dangerous drugs. For instance, 'Ever feel as though you are missing something in life? Is your selfishness or confusing desire dragging your life into depression and anxiety? Ask your doctor about LSD-25'
"we could all have an account on line under our social security number where we decide what services we want to subscribe to. i would transfer my money every month to all the services that i need. kinda like what we do now for our hydro and telephone. " - Very good suggestion but still we need to have a way to make sure that price fixing does not occur in these services.
Health care is important right now, and we need some way to pay our funds to the right people directly. We cannot have anymore funds wasted lining some richmans pocket while there are people suffering who cannot afford to be serviced. Again, if medicine where not repressed, soo many less people would ever need healthcare in the first place.
The fire department should be exactly how you described it, good thinking.
Our education system is so faulty right now, we need reform their as well. Honestly I believe that it should all be done online. Parents choose which courses to enroll their children in and forums will be there to help out anyone looking for guidance. Librarys would become the new schools, they would be huge and filled with computers. Everyone with a child or a love of knowledge could come to the library for further mediation and guidance.
The military needs to be strictly for defense, no questions asked. These corporate wars are getting more and more pointless.
Too true my friend too true. I can sense the grief of denial in the masses each day I face them. I can see it in their eyes. I can see it in their gestures. I can see it in their actions and hear it in their words. A change is upon us.
amen!!!!! between you & 3xi you get a lot of bases covered!
you mention small streets having meetings & taking care of its own...i was fortunate enough to grow up in such a community. it was in the heart of toronto--a big city. but our little neighbourhood was nestled between 5 toxic factories & a stock/slaughter yard and we were pretty much insulated and a ton of small family business made our neighbourhood pretty much self sufficient. also, we were all mostly from the same culture & spoke our mother tongue & so there was another bond. our neighbourhood was nicknamed "crackland" and was dominated by a local street gang. the rule was that since they all lived in these streets and you don't "shit where you eat" they made all there money outside the block. they didn't deal to local kids. also they wouldn't permit crimes to happen to locals. even though it was one of the most dangerous neighbourhoods, i could walk around by myself at any hour with no fear. no one would dare touch a local.
one day the gang found out that a local parent was a pedefile & raping his 12 year old daughter. the mom plead with the gang for help and they helped the girl run away to a safe distant relative....and when the dad came looking he lost an arm. sounds pretty fair to me. we never needed cops in my neighbourhood. they were a nuicence and mostly came around when they felt like beating someone up (usually for nothing--existing was reason enough for them to kick your ass)
so--amen guys! keep working on it. i'm sure there are PLENTY of people who feel the same/similar....its just no one has the balls (until now) to say so.
rygoody
12-15-2007, 10:52 AM
spraying everyone with acid to force them to think like you is just wrong.Not to think like me.
To think like them.
Dose people, so they can think like people.
so, my official stand point is that dosing someone with LSD in attempts to wake them up is not the best idea! i am not saying that it is a bad idea but i would never be able to do it myself.And I do agree with this. Going around dosing people for just various reasons, or any reason, is wrong.
But when I said, replace bullets with LSD. That doesn't mean to bring a new guide of judgement with LSD. It means, retain the same judgement that you would when using bullets. But instead, use LSD. Which if maintaining that guise, the number of LSD dosings you would do in your lifetime would for most part be none. I mean, how many people do you think youd ever shoot in your lifetime? Just if it ever does come right down to it, I'd much prefer psychological death to physical death. I do agree, there are many karmic implications in it. But if it comes right down to it, I think there'd be less karmic implications in the psychological death.
Of course though, if your already in the right direction and paths, karma never will steer you that way, hopefully.
HighAsHell
12-15-2007, 07:42 PM
That was a fucking book to read mate.
However, you're very right about many things and you have many valid points.
There are countless theories out there about how our world is going to change in the next 50, 40 or even 10 years! If any of you have seen Tom Cruise' move called Minority Report (I think thats the one I'm thinking of)
The simple idea of a "Pre-cog" existing, and knowing our moves before we even make them, you're right... A lot of us, especially those of us on these forums - Are going to get fucked over pretty quickly, we're going to be running with our asses between our legs all our lives, just to try and ensure our way of life is kept true.
The day that this happens, I'll gladly run to the middle of the woods with a few lbs of weed and a jar full of my LSD, and I'll never fucking come back. I'm not living in a world where the government controlls me.
I don't remember who mentioned force-feeding LSD to people, but I have thought of doing this countless times. Do you have any idea how easy it would be to drop a few drops into a popular stores water / drink supply, and have the fucking world see through our eyes?
That'd be so much fun :D
elfin1mf
12-15-2007, 10:17 PM
I really do not want 3xi's forum to end up being about dosing murderers with lsd. I think we can all make a decision whether physical death is better than ego death. That is what it boils down to. Honestly I think there is a better way. We have non-lethal ways to detain people, we need to research those mechanisms of instant detainment more fully. The greater problem is authority abusing these tools.
neodude1212
12-17-2007, 02:57 AM
this thread is absolutely ridiculous......
i like how everyone thinks im an ass just because i dont agree with all of you. logically, none of you even make sense. spraying ppl with acid....does that really sound like the answer? all of you DO realize that it's just a chemical right? a drug? not some liquid passed down from heaven to enlighten us all to where we are above society? sorry but all of this just doesn't make sense so go ahead and call me an ass, you all frustrate me very badly.
so let's all go do LSD, sit back and bitch about how everyone is a sheep except for us, recieve our divine blessing and insight, and then do nothing at all. yay.
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 03:40 AM
neodude, how does that old quote go? if you don't have anything nice to say then you are being an asshole
salmon4me
12-17-2007, 04:23 AM
There are a lot of interesting thoughts in this thread. People have put a significant amount of time into it.
Going forward, please keep all posts on subject. :)
killuminati
12-17-2007, 05:25 AM
all of you DO realize that it's just a chemical right? hmmm. thats not where it begins and ends, you and i know that there's much more to it than that.
sw0o0sh
12-17-2007, 06:45 AM
this thread is absolutely ridiculous......
i like how everyone thinks im an ass just because i dont agree with all of you. logically, none of you even make sense. spraying ppl with acid....does that really sound like the answer? all of you DO realize that it's just a chemical right? a drug? not some liquid passed down from heaven to enlighten us all to where we are above society? sorry but all of this just doesn't make sense so go ahead and call me an ass, you all frustrate me very badly.
so let's all go do LSD, sit back and bitch about how everyone is a sheep except for us, recieve our divine blessing and insight, and then do nothing at all. yay.
I kind of agree with your points. I was well aware of the flaws in society before I ever took acid, not to mention pretty deep and philosophical. It just helped me realized the flaws within myself, and that I am not so above everybody else as I may have once thought I was. Not saying this is the case for all of us, but in some way a lot of us lie to ourselves in some form whether it be big or small. I realized with the aid of LSD (otherwise I'd ignore such instinct) that I had got sucked into some of my own lies and was more aware of my guilty conscious. I clearly use to have a problem with alcohol, LSD helped me realize my ignorance and I quickly stopped the abuse of alcohol.
You just need to realize that some people here get / have got sucked into the effectiveness of LSD as a tool to aid onesself, thus concluding it as the answer to society's problems. I don't think this is the case. I know plenty of people who use it for what it is, a drug, and nothing more. It's a chemical, and it's effects are a result of a chemical reaction when put into ones body. Take psychedelics as you want, but there really is no right or wrong way to use them. It's a scheduled drug not intended for human consumption all over the world. People have done stupid shit on it, and people will continue to in the future. That's reality. There are plenty of smart and enlightened people who came along way being sober. It's all about being logical and having common sense, and achieving the goals you set for yourself in life, not what society tells you how it should be. It opens up new perspectives for some people, and helps them realize that some paths aren't as narrow as they may have thought. But you don't need a drug to do that, just be open minded and smart about your decisions.
Let's face it, society isn't going to reward anybody for using LSD, except for a fat jail sentence if they are caught with it.
mara-aum
12-17-2007, 04:01 PM
this thread is absolutely ridiculous......
i like how everyone thinks im an ass just because i dont agree with all of you. logically, none of you even make sense. spraying ppl with acid....does that really sound like the answer? all of you DO realize that it's just a chemical right? a drug? not some liquid passed down from heaven to enlighten us all to where we are above society? sorry but all of this just doesn't make sense so go ahead and call me an ass, you all frustrate me very badly.
so let's all go do LSD, sit back and bitch about how everyone is a sheep except for us, recieve our divine blessing and insight, and then do nothing at all. yay.
have you ever done lsd? just curious
neodude1212
12-17-2007, 04:04 PM
finally....someone with a little bit of damn sense...
and how exactly do you guys plan on getting rid of taxes? why are they so bad anyway? i know they are a bitch...but they are pretty vital to everything that you enjoy on a day to day basis. setting up businesses to get rid of the middle man, to where ppl pay directly to schools and hospitals would never work. taxes cover so much more than schools and hospitals, and btw, how many of you would really go throw your money into stuff like that if you weren't forced to?
neodude1212
12-17-2007, 04:05 PM
have you ever done lsd? just curious
yes.
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 06:06 PM
Now you are contributing! My idea was to pretty much get rid of school. Most every person I know agrees that school is useless and no one remembers most of it even if they do get all As. It is largely a horrid experience. Giant libraries should be the new schools and they should be filled with computers. There could be a a few good general knowledge teacher-like people in each library to help people get started on the net and enroll in online courses, activities and forums. I wouldn't put my kid through public school, I would surely join a homeschooling group. We should legally have to either do a homeschooling group for young kids, or pay for a private school. Face it, most kids don't want to learn and they would learn much better if they felt comfortable.
PsychMyke
12-17-2007, 06:09 PM
^dude, without school you would be an ignorant waste of air. You dont realize it, but being exposed to education from an early age hasprofoundly shaped you as an intellectual being.
Without education, no one would be having this philosphical discussion on this right now
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 06:10 PM
yes.I think you need to do alot more of it, just my opinion.
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 06:13 PM
^dude, without school you would be an ignorant waste of air. You dont realize it, but being exposed to education from an early age hasprofoundly shaped you as an intellectual being.
Without education, no one would be having this philosphical discussion on this right nowI completely disagree, I don't think that going to school everyday to be forced into memorizing someone elses opinions is the best way to learn. You have your opinion and I have mine.
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 06:20 PM
I suppose that now we are delving into a slightly philosophical side of reform/ This is especially true given my last post which seems to question the validity of the material that is focused on in schools. Did you know that British text books are removing civil rights in attempts to improve black attitude and test scores? Apparently if you don't tell a people how they got here, they will be less resistant to society. It makes me wonder how many times our textbooks were rewritten and fabricated.
mara-aum
12-17-2007, 06:28 PM
Now you are contributing! My idea was to pretty much get rid of school. Most every person I know agrees that school is useless and no one remembers most of it even if they do get all As. It is largely a horrid experience. Giant libraries should be the new schools and they should be filled with computers. There could be a a few good general knowledge teacher-like people in each library to help people get started on the net and enroll in online courses, activities and forums. I wouldn't put my kid through public school, I would surely join a homeschooling group. We should legally have to either do a homeschooling group for young kids, or pay for a private school. Face it, most kids don't want to learn and they would learn much better if they felt comfortable.
:agree:
^dude, without school you would be an ignorant waste of air. You dont realize it, but being exposed to education from an early age hasprofoundly shaped you as an intellectual being.
Without education, no one would be having this philosphical discussion on this right nownot true...
human children are like sponges. we learn how to speak before we go to school! - how in the hell do we do that?
and he is not talking about an absence of learning at all. he is just saying that most schools now a days are a waste of time.
i spent a good few years learning how to write (not print but write)... and now that i have gown up i never ever write .... only to sign my signature and that doesnt even look like my name. now we use computers to type instead - no one writes anymore... and that is just one of many examples of how school is a waste of time.
children learn better when they are interested. the school system is flawed in many ways. taking your kid out of school would not rob them of an education. people can become educated in life through many different means. all of the ideas that elfin1mf has are very good. the modern world has made it easier to spread knowledge with the internet. teach your children how to talk, read, print, use a computer, and let them decide how they want to learn, let them decide what they want to learn. - children are full of adventure - every one of them is in search of a meaning to their life. stupid people think that our children will just grow up to be worthless shit balls without some sort of strict guidance. when really all children need is the freedom to grow up into the person they want to be.
basically my point is that you dont need school to be an intellectual human being. the truth is that most people learn more about life after school - that is true for me.
i think that education should be more streamlined. for example - a baker does not need to understand algebra to do what he does so why bother filling up your mind with useless shit. if someone wants to learn algebra to exercise their mind because they are interested in such things then by all means but to say that it is a required part of someone’s education is bull shit.
RELAYER
12-17-2007, 06:58 PM
School is a good preperation for jail. So I benefited immensley during my time spent incarcerated. :tongue:
More than likely I will have to send my son to public school but really, what else can I do? I have to work overtime as it is to even stay alive and have a place to live, I dont have the ability to do homeschool, neither does his mom. Not all of us are so lucky, and therefor public school is a blessing. Maybe it isnt all peaches and cream, but it is a way to learn how to deal with the harsh reality that is life. The only problem with school that I worry about is kids blowing peopple away with guns. Other than that, yea school sucks, so does the rest of all of our lives if you cant transcend your situation and let it consume you.
... I know plenty of people who use it for what it is, a drug, and nothing more. It's a chemical, and it's effects are a result of a chemical reaction when put into ones body. Take psychedelics as you want, but there really is no right or wrong way to use them. It's a scheduled drug not intended for human consumption all over the world. ...so let me get this strait... not only do you disrespect what LSD is. "just a drug and nothing more" but you actually agree with the fact that it is illegal. are you sure your not on these forums to educate yourself before you look at becoming a cop.
School is a good preperation for jail. So I benefited immensley during my time spent incarcerated. :tongue:
More than likely I will have to send my son to public school but really, what else can I do? I have to work overtime as it is to even stay alive and have a place to live, I dont have the ability to do homeschool, neither does his mom. Not all of us are so lucky, and therefor public school is a blessing. Maybe it isnt all peaches and cream, but it is a way to learn how to deal with the harsh reality that is life. The only problem with school that I worry about is kids blowing peopple away with guns. Other than that, yea school sucks, so does the rest of all of our lives if you cant transcend your situation and let it consume you.i hear ya, most of us are not in a position to be able to home school our children.
i went to school and although i know i would have been better off with a different scenario i did turn out fine. i am happy to be alive and i did find a better way of life eventually so no big deal. whatever school did was nothing that a few good doses of LSD couldn’t fix.
we are not saying that the world is a horrible place as we are all aware that it could be much worse. what we are saying is that we are not satisfied and something must be done to bring us a better tomorrow. we must be thankful for what we have at the same time that we realize that things could be much better.
neodude1212
12-17-2007, 09:31 PM
i hear ya, most of us are not in a position to be able to home school our children.
i went to school and although i know i would have been better off with a different scenario i did turn out fine. i am happy to be alive and i did find a better way of life eventually so no big deal. whatever school did was nothing that a few good doses of LSD couldn?t fix.
we are not saying that the world is a horrible place as we are all aware that it could be much worse. what we are saying is that we are not satisfied and something must be done to bring us a better tomorrow. we must be thankful for what we have at the same time that we realize that things could be much better.
well, you guys dont sound thankful at all.
and as for schooling, i think that is totally necessary. i guess we can cuss, since this is a free speech things, so i describe kids as, "bad little destructive fuckers". and you all know they are cuz you used to be. without school, ppl would be totally idiotic b/c they would never educate themselves. also, school serves as a social model to prepare kids for society. now....i know you guys hate society and all...but the fact is, we live in one, so they need to be prepared to live in one.
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 09:36 PM
"Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."
-Gandalf, "The Return of the King"
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 09:44 PM
well, you guys dont sound thankful at all.
and as for schooling, i think that is totally necessary. i guess we can cuss, since this is a free speech things, so i describe kids as, "bad little destructive fuckers". and you all know they are cuz you used to be. without school, ppl would be totally idiotic b/c they would never educate themselves. also, school serves as a social model to prepare kids for society. now....i know you guys hate society and all...but the fact is, we live in one, so they need to be prepared to live in one.What a one track mind, did it ever occur to you that the reason kids are lazy could have something to do with influence of others? If the kid was never exposed to a lazy attitude (such as the attitude which younger kids think is 'cool' in schools") then the child will find interest in learning. Children soak up what they perceive and it becomes part of them, that is the only way they are able to exist. Ironically, children are also largely the only true individuals of our race. If they see nothing but a majority of destructive behavior then they will demonstrate what they know, they won't magially be granted the ability to do something they never heard or saw. It is your own fault that you have not been able to see the purity and natural beauty of children.
neodude1212
12-17-2007, 10:00 PM
say what you want about how magical children are, but they will never ever go to learn on their own free will. that doesn't even sound like a child. children want to do what they want to do, all the time, and that really doesn't involve learning. see reality man.
elfin1mf
12-17-2007, 10:54 PM
what didn't you understand neodude, everyone creates their own reality. No one sees the world like you just as no person sees it like me. To some people, life is no more than a game or a quest for drugs. For some people life is about their job and money. For some people life is a magical dream world. It is all up to you what reality is man and if yours sucks then I am sorry for you, but don't go telling everyone else that they need to see things the way you do. I have worked with children before and it seemed that every word I said seemed to enchant them. What they want to do is all they know, all they have seen. If they only saw the a life where learning is exciting, they would become a person who loved to learn.
Of course they wont hop in a car and drive themselves to a place they have never been to learn out of nowhere, anything they do they have been set up to do.
neodude1212
12-17-2007, 10:57 PM
if everyone creates their own reality, then why are we bitching about society? it shouldn't matter then, right? cuz we all have our own reality? that's just not true.
say what you want about how magical children are, but they will never ever go to learn on their own free will. that doesn't even sound like a child. children want to do what they want to do, all the time, and that really doesn't involve learning. see reality man.then why do children learn in school? if they didn’t want to learn they wouldn’t learn at all even if they were put in school.
the bad little children that you refer to are the kinds of kids who don’t learn in school as it is. this has nothing to do with some strange idea that children do not want to learn but has everything to do with bad parenting.
a healthy child will always be eager to learn new things. that is what life is about and children usually discover this on their own.
of course when we have bad parenting we also have bad children. children need good parents who love them.
kids are not bad by nature. people are not bad by nature. we are a product of our surroundings and some people are not fortunate enough to have good parents. i am sure there will always be places that children can go to get help. for the kids who don’t want to learn and grow into a productive human being - well i am sure that no school would have been able to change their mind either. some people just wind up bad and there is nothing anyone can do sometimes.
neodude1212... i wonder why you think this way. this is a thread about what is wrong with society. that should in no way be construed to mean that we hate society or that we are not thankful for what we have. it is very natural for people to want a better life. there is something very wrong with people who say that you should just accept things for how they are because they could be worse. that kind of mentality will get us no where.
elfin1mf
12-18-2007, 12:50 AM
if everyone creates their own reality, then why are we bitching about society? it shouldn't matter then, right? cuz we all have our own reality? that's just not true.The entire point of this thread was how to make reality better for others, both 3xi and myself actually opened our argument by stating that we could go off and live out in the middle of no where but that it would be selfish in each of our realities. Read more carefully please; this was blatantly stated before anything else that was mentioned by both me and 3xi.
elfin1mf
12-18-2007, 01:07 AM
That isn't a theory, it can be proven with simple logic. What you are perceiving is your reality simply because you think the way you do. For you to think that everyone else sees things the way you do is part of your reality, but some people might feel pain and think that it is joy because they enjoy it. Someone might see red as you see blue and vise versa. For all you know your mind is fabricating all reality and you are the only one who perceives any of it. For an African tribesman, reality might be happily conquering nature and sharing love with the tribe, while your reality likely consists of bitching at people who don't think like you on a computer and jacking off to the latest American Idol.
RELAYER
12-18-2007, 01:38 AM
What needs to be rememberd at all times, is that reality is purely subjective. Not only because it is not eternal, and not only because it is subject to welcome adversity, but also because reality is just a term, and the perception of reality is just a perception. Consciousness, in order for it to be, has to be concious of something. The something of which we are all conscious, namely, the physical universe, is not how it appears to be. It appears to be made up of solids, liquid, and gases, contained within what may either be eternally expanding veil of ether, or it may be contained within what may be an expanding yet sooner or later to be imploding veil of ether. But even the scientists, who really dont know much of anything, have shown matter to be composed of atoms. And atoms to be composed of subatomic particles, which are composed of leptons, tau-leptons, quarks, etc. Which are composed of vibration and energy. But we cant touch, see, smell, hear (well, actually...), or taste that energy with the phsycial senses, because they are very limited. But what is objective, and this is only objective if you can transcend the limitations of the mind and body, is the eternal nature of God, the limitless, eternal force out of which this maya illusion universe was dreamed out of and when the dream is over, will no longer be. There is a state of objective, transcendental bliss that ALL of us can attain, but until we get there, we will always argue about this and that, this is impossible or that is impossible. Until you open up into the mind of God, all you have is your ego and your caused-thought matter and your consciousness, and this will always be subjective because it is alone, seperated from the creator, and grasping at things which are non eternal. But that state of samadhi, transcendental, all encompasing, ever new bliss, is the state that many men have attained (thought not many during the same generation, Im talking over the ages here) and once there, have realized that this is not subjective. This is not 'my concsiousness'. This is not 'my thought process'. This is eternity, one with the ever present Now which has always been, is Now, and forever always will be.
Sorry to go off topic, just laying down the framework to explain why all of our personal opinions and perceptions are subjective. And if you want to say that what I just said is personal opinion, try it yourself. I promise you will change your mind. In fact you may not have much of a mind left to change -
sw0o0sh
12-18-2007, 01:45 AM
so let me get this strait... not only do you disrespect what LSD is. "just a drug and nothing more" but you actually agree with the fact that it is illegal. are you sure your not on these forums to educate yourself before you look at becoming a cop.
Yeah, because law enforcement definitely won't contradict my activity. It is a drug. Did I ever say "and nothing more?", no. I never agreed to it being illegal, I stated the fact that is scheduled all over the world and not intended for human consumption. Did I ever say I agreed to the laws?
Here, I'll share what shit you write to me over PM's and discuss here.
i truly respect the people on these forums who speak from experience. there are so many people who have so much to say. but it really bites when someone with very little experience comes on line, does a bunch of 'research' and magically becomes some sort of expert. now, i am not saying that you should not have a voice, what i am saying is that i am shocked at how much you think you know.
Yes, I speak from experience. I didn't research the main 'effects', I used internet research to make sure I wasn't putting my body in danger (physically). Have a problem with that? Who are you to put a claim on my experience? I've had plenty of intiment trips, that were very spiritual and enlightening. I even spoke in my post how it helped uplift the addiction to alcohol I had settled in, amongst other things in my life that made me guilty. Is that not past experience? You truly are a jack ass. Did you miss that I said...
You just need to realize that some people here get / have got sucked into the effectiveness of LSD as a tool to aid onesself, thus concluding it as the answer to society's problems.
(I said the effectiveness of LSD as a tool to aid onesself). And then I go on to mention how some people get carried away with that effectiveness.
swoosh - someone with your experience in life should be open to learning new things not on line trying to tell everyone how it is. you do make some good points but they are few and far between. the only good thing about what you are doing is that you are demonstrating just how blindly ignorant some of our youth is.
I'm not telling people how it is, I'm telling people how it is in my eyes. Believe LSD is whatever you want it to be. A society saviour? Go for it. I don't agree, I have my opinions, I spoke them. I see it as a drug, and a tool for spiritual enlightenment assuming it's in the right persons hands. I do not support drugs for being fucked up, I stated that I know plenty of people who have no other use of it, therefore building on the point that as long as there's people doing stupid shit with it -- It's going to be restricted. Yes, I am blindly demonstrating how ignorant my youth is simply because I don't agree with your perspective on spraying people with LSD to improve society? Get a grip buddy.
whether or not you want to change doesnt matter. being on these forums has already changed who you are. no one is going to hold you to what you say because most of us understand that you are just someone who has a few things to learn. most of us can relate to how you feel in some way because we all have things to learn. all i am saying is that it would be easier for you if you didnt come off like you actually know what you are talking about on every subject. also it seems like all you want to do most times is take the other side. how you can read through what we have been talking about in the "whats wrong with society" thread and not see a few good ideas is crazy.
Being on these forums hasn't changed who I am, it's opened me up to new idea's, perspectives, beliefs, even delivered me with far more knowledge in the more sensitive area's of LSD. Whether or not I fully agree is my right. I know you don't like me much but I'm perfectly fine for that.
"all i am saying is that it would be easier for you if you didnt come off like you actually know what you are talking about on every subject."
Alright, so I might aswell let everybody else do just that and never put in my 2 cents. Hey guess what? Ever heard of republicans and democrats? Standing on the outside you may think the both always want to take the opposite side! I guess our opinions can be metaphored to that. I do not intentionally take the other side, I just coincidentally do not agree with the majority of your idea's. I do not agree with dosing people who do not want it. I do not think it's right, and I believe people have rights, that society upholds, whether or not they exactly always will promise it to be there. If you have a problem with society, try transcendentalism and see how long it floats your boat.
you probably do agree with some of what we are saying but dont want to say that you do for some reason. like you just want to be argumentative - and for that i do thank you. having someone take the other side is good for a healthy debate. my point is that it would make you look better if you were to agree with some things. not just for the sake of agreeing. i mean - when you agree with us say you do. dont just take the time to disagree - if you agree at all make sure you say you do. if you can read the "what is wrong with society" thread and not agree with or at least understand where we are coming from on some of these issues you must be very closed minded.
I do not agree with what you were saying, and guess what, from the start. I made a post, you chose to disregard giving any thought to my idea's (thus being close minded). I thought your plan for society had flaws. I don't think it would work. You are speaking from one perspective in society, not society as a whole. You seem to forget your beliefs are merely opinions, (maybe even fact), and they aren't what society as a whole may always want.
Look, get some individuality. I don't do anything to look good, I could care less if you, or anybody else here dislikes me. Like I've said before, I respect a handful of people here... and hey, they might not even respect me back (and I respect that).
Your last statement is the equivalent to saying, "If you really love me, you would do this". Close minded would be if I made my claim without a logical reasoning as to why I make such claim. Do you understand that? Close minded is also when you blatantly disagree without a reason nor ration, like you have (which also displays ignorance). Instead of offering me further elaboration of your opinion (and 'or' disagreement) like somebody who properly debates would, you decided to render me close minded and dismiss the argument with your parting words. Well good job defending your problem free plan. Glad to see it's so flawless after all. Close minded would also be you not trying to understand where my reasoning is coming from -- to get a feel and maybe see if you just happened to agree yourself (and when DOING so it is called being open minded, get that?). I don't understand how I am close minded for disagreeing with you. Your idea isn't so open minded to others perspectives apparently.
To put it short, if you don't know how to argue, please don't send me these PM's. If you want to make a good point, make it, don't attack who I am, and then try and defend personal rights and freedoms on the side. Hypocrite. I don't say what I say just to be saying it, or just to be the one disagreeing. I speak from personal experience, yes I've done LSD, yes I've done RC's, and many other things which just aren't your business. When I first came here I didn't know much on the subject, well guess what? I learned, like everyone else. You can think I do things just to disagree, I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm not going to tell you to believe me, but at least expect me to be telling the truth (or what I apparently believe is truthful). I do not post these to make personal attacks, or turn your thread into a healthy debate. Do you know how logic works? If you are logically incorrect -- and still believe your POV, it's safe to assume that you are an ignorant individual, at least when it comes to that matter.
Hey, some people like to see what I have to say on the matter. I'm not going to tell you to aswell. I speak my thoughts and beliefs with confidence. I can defend my thoughts. If I kept eating at your idea eventually you would have to call ignorance, because it's built on opinion. If that opinion isn't agreed upon, or meets a contradiction through if's and then's, it's not a logical opinion. If you like being irrational, be irrational. I'm not going to stop you, but I'm not going to exactly waste my time arguing my points if you can't be respectf