SpeakingTongues

[tikoo]

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Paul wrote quite a bit about it and encouraged people to do so . I need to know what you think about it . The writings teach Tounges is good for glory , illumination , blessings to the people , and for personal prayer .

There seems to be two kinds . One that is just a foreign language from another culture , and the other could be described as angelic or creation language . It's the creation language that's dear and poetic to me , and i can translate it into english when i want to .

I may feel it is totally natural . Could it be our one universal language ? then it will bring peace and is our peace and is for all .

It's the little children who love it most . They speak it true and as from the beginning and always new . Really . By spirit we live our actual created nature and all's well .

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[Hryhorii]

Glossolalia basically means incoherent babbeling, not heavenly tongues...

[tikoo]

i note you got the predjudice against it . even tho the gift of Tounges was strong in the early church , it's not honored by all believers . old boastful paul claimed to be the best tounge speaker of all . he's funny . i'm just glad he cared enough to write about it .


in my casual research on it i find it in africa where it is termed the Royal Language . sometimes i can hear it in reggae songs , but i've been told it's generally only the insane who speak it . yaya , it's possible to make bad nonsense of it . it's possible to be meaningless . then , too , the essense of no meaning is itself meaning . to completely disrespect or dismiss it is sinful . even the insane deserve a relationship from you . in conciousness we love with the mind .

[Hryhorii]

I am not saying that it is good or bad. I personally do not believe that glossolalia is all that valueable (although all gifts have value acc. to Paul), but he also puts glossolalia near or at the bottom of his "spiritual hierarchy" in 1 Corinthians 12.

Also from 1 Corinthians, chapter 14.
"So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. "

"So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church."

For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful."

"If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified."

To me, the whole notion seems, dare I say, hokey. Acctually, I find a lot of the charismatic movement to be hokey whether it is in a Catholic, Orthodox, or Reform church.

I don't know what it is, but I just can't grasp this: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=bkf7DpnnNck

It just seems a bit too much like this to me: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=LyJI9xDUYV8 and easily faked (I am reminded of Borat at the Pentacostal assembly)


edit: According to wikipedia...
The syllables that make up instances of glossolalia typically appear to be unpatterned reorganizations of phonemes from the primary language of the person uttering the syllables; thus, the glossolalia of people from Russia, the United Kingdom, and Brazil all sound quite different from each other, but vaguely resemble the Russian, English, and Portuguese languages, respectively. Many linguists generally regard most glossolalia as lacking any identifiable semantics, syntax, or morphology

[tikoo]

yaya , in the Acts it's first mentioned as happening to the apostles in the pentacost scene , when they get first get touched by the holy ghost fire . the account relates that there was an international jewish convention going on and the apostles were heard and wondered at as they were speaking in praise of god through the conventioneers' various languages .

certainly an opening spirit of Oneness .

i have a shy friend who speaks her 'prayer language' . she's mostly very private about it ...mmm... protective . when i've been able to hear something of it , it's of the angelic/creation sort of tongue . she asked me once to translate a word for her . only once , just one word . another sort of oneness i suppose .

i've been able to study the tongue . it happens here there and everywhere when people are relaxed and happy enough to let it just exist .

a simple description of the language is this : every phoneme is also a morpheme , or , every sound has a meaning and is itself a word . when the phonemes associate as longer words then the individual meanings color one another . the structure of this language is purely associative , unto itself , unto the context of the moment , it's One meaning directed by pure intention . one could say The Word is Light . differences in dialect can be accomodated by its logic . there is a basic set of sounds and meanings that are common to all . these can be used to define any other in a rather equational way . the mind loves it and can play with it masterfully like jazz .
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[Hryhorii]

the structure of this language is purely associative , unto itself , unto the context of the moment , it's One meaning directed by pure intention . one could say The Word is Light . differences in dialect can be accomodated by its logic . there is a basic set of sounds and meanings that are common to all . these can be used to define any other in a rather equational way . the mind loves it and can play with it masterfully like jazz .
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.Two things:

1. If the meaning is in the moment, does it have any lasting meaning?

2. If it is of the mind (you say the mind can play with it), how is it "God's language" or of the spirit?

[tikoo]

Two things:

1. If the meaning is in the moment, does it have any lasting meaning?

2. If it is of the mind (you say the mind can play with it), how is it "God's language" or of the spirit?

___________________

1. like writing ? can meanings be set into social memory and then enhanced , built upon , advanced ... ?

i do write in the language sometimes . i've learned it takes great care to establish a logical context so that even i can read it later . in essence , this language must establish it's own experiential context . well , a strawberry lane kid first trying to translate pure thought into written english has a very similar dilemna . as would an avant-garde poetic revelator .

as conversational usage is improvisational in form from the roots , specific complex words do not need to endure concretely . the essence of meaning flows on as tho the mind does not need a conventional literacy to think , remember , think again associatively .

a mandala works ok .


2. dishonesty is obvious when a relationship is broken . good cannot mean bad . war does not mean peace and love . meaning always follows context and intention . bad intention appears jagged in words - as broken glass .

can god ask for a burger ? in a good sense a man can honestly praise god then ask the cook for a burger and praise god again all in one grand utterance . tis all sacred sense . you can't ask for food without intending to , and there'd be only the funniest sort of god word for spirit burger in the sky .

[xexon]

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Paul wrote quite a bit about it and encouraged people to do so . I need to know what you think about it . The writings teach Tounges is good for glory , illumination , blessings to the people , and for personal prayer .

There seems to be two kinds . One that is just a foreign language from another culture , and the other could be described as angelic or creation language . It's the creation language that's dear and poetic to me , and i can translate it into english when i want to .

I may feel it is totally natural . Could it be our one universal language ? then it will bring peace and is our peace and is for all .

It's the little children who love it most . They speak it true and as from the beginning and always new . Really . By spirit we live our actual created nature and all's well .

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This greatly misunderstood.

To "speak in tongues" has nothing to do with incoherent babbeling. Its not even speaking in some unknown language.

One who has established a connection to the divine speaks the same language as you do. The problem arises when they try to detail these inner experiences to the outside world. There are many things which cannot be explained from that point of view. Sometimes, the efforts of those who try, are taken as incoherent babbeling. Because of, the difficulty of translation.

When you see people who fall down on the stage and do that little act, it's just a product of monkey see, monkey do. Humans are gullible in that way. Programmable. They LOVE tradition.

To commune with the divine, one instantly see a problem with the status quo.

You're not likely to follow that wagging tail in front of you any longer.

The Matrix no longer has you.



x

[tikoo]

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as a pure music unto the free , translating
divine communion is not necessary .
in this light , you may as well converse with it
while sharing a cup of tea
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[xexon]

Translating IS necessary if you expect to share it with anybody.

By yourself, no. The understanding is perfect. Words cannot convey some things that happen internally, and therefore fall short with any attempt. (Because the divine communion itself is wordless)

This leaves people on the outside wondering if your cheese has finally slid off your cracker, as they struggle to understand what you're trying to tell them.

Even Jesus had a terrible time making himself understood.

Forget what you think you know about speaking in tongues.

The modern concept of falling on the floor and espousing something resembling Klingon is just pure fabrication of the imagination of people who COULD'NT speak in tongues.

Mass hysteria. Mass hypnosis. Both run deep in religious services. All this sensory stimulation from singing and dancing and the other stuff produces an altered state of conciousness. It's a monkey see, monkey do world. One where people do as other's do.

Imitation, rather than realization.



x

[tikoo]

i don't trance much , and then not theatrically . trans-lating ? i may or may not . i may choose to let the language just be the power and clarity . it has never failed my trust . it certainly is the tongue with which i would speak to the wilderness .

[tikoo]

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oitohgjn ... so i do in a moment of random trance make a word from this keyboard . it's got meaning like any word has meaning . now to give it some more context for sake of speaking it yet preserving it's original sense .

o'it ho'gin jo 'n

the sound o means to feel . now to translate :

i feel a Light unto me , and then searching within
i find it there too and am strengthened .

and so ? this can be a word of hope , confirmation , and healing ?
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[xexon]

Words only have power that you're willing to give them. They have none of their own.




x

[neodude1212]

have you guys thought about this in reference to the story of the tower of babel?

when everyone spoke the same language, the original language, maybe this is what they were speaking?

[tikoo]

ya , the babel story is reasonable - likewise - the human family originating from africa is reasonable . i couldn't possibly assert that the alphabet i use is exactly/authoritively true to the original one language , that it just could be , in that close enough is good enough and is true .

the power of intention (spirit) carries through . understanding happens .