Do you ever see the 60's making a comeback?

[lovelyxmalia]

I see a lot of similar (yet, very different) political issues, wars, and negativity as was seen in the 60's. Do you think the "hippie hype" will ever return?

[Stoned]

In one word NO!!!!!

I lived those days and people cared about one another. Peace Love & Understanding and I use to travel throught the USofA to protest the Vietnam War and I don't see that ever coming back.

Today is ME ME ME

Maybe same issues, but not the same mentality, sadly.

Always

Stoned

[sublime94]

Awww, fuck. That sucks. As much as I know your right, I hope your wrong.

[easy_rider69]

In one word NO!!!!!

I lived those days and people cared about one another. Peace Love & Understanding and I use to travel throught the USofA to protest the Vietnam War and I don't see that ever coming back.

Today is ME ME ME

Maybe same issues, but not the same mentality, sadly.

Always

Stoned
Why would you want that way of thinking again? Protests making heros look like villans and lazy scared "hippys" look like saints. NO THANKS. You old "hipppys" should be ashamed of yourselves for what you put allmost every vietnam vet through. Funny thing is back then you guys used to think that you were changin everything, but in fact when i look into the past, i see all hippys as nothing but scared lazy bums, to afraid to serve your duty as a citizen yet criticize everything your country stand for. Not in your case since you are canadian which is just weird that you would care so much about an AMERICAN war, oh wait it was a TREND to be a jobless travel everywhere bum, how could i forget.

[emelia]

I don't agree with you easy rider, hippies were NOT against vietnam war veterans. They were very much for them, which is why they were protesting to bring them back home and end the war. The vietnam war wasn't shits and giggles, you know; the war was horrible, and I'm sure if you ever meet a vietnam veteran they would tell you the same thing.

Also, hippies were not afraid to serve for their country. In my view, hippies served their country for a much greater cause than war in the 60's; they made sexual equality a reality, they had a musical and aristic revolution, they paved the way for generations to come, they promoted love, peace and equality, not hate war and discrimination. They made a difference. Alright, the world is far from right today, but your average person has a much more open mind than before the 60's. But back to the draft - the hippies did not want to give their lives for an unjust cause, it wasn't because they were lazy! They fought to bring back US troops (which DID eventually happen)!

And may I just add: what is wrong with being Canadian and caring about the Vietnam war? I'm English and I care about it. Lots of people suffered during that war (and many others), why shouldn't the world remember them? Don't Americans care about the savagery that took place, and still does, in other countries? Don't you care about Tibet? Don't you care about Burma? People suffer in these places, just like they suffered in Vietnam. I, myself, care about everyone and every war. We should not restrict ourselves to our own countries; I believe we should take an interest in the world as a whole.

[SummerEco]

^^^I absolutly agree with you... you are so right!:) and it's nice to see another young teenage think the way you do! the way we do-- thank you :)

[lovelyxmalia]

easy rider, why are you in a hippie forum when you don't agree with what they've done?

I still protest outside of different places-the white house being one of them in 2005. Hippies from the 60's/70's revolutionized our world as we know it today. They were an amazing asset to our history.

[easy_rider69]

Emelia, tell my Uncle (vietnam Vet) that "hippys" were not against vietnam vets you could probably learn something about how things really went back then, not just a story that old stoners glorify.

Lovelyxmalia, the reason i am on this forum, is that once i bought into all this love, peace, hippy junk that all people on here are doing, but i decided that i would much prefer to change the world on a more profesional level, as opposed to smoking a joint and blaming all problems on the system, why not actually change the system? I find that most hippys are pure hipocrates. No offence but there are way more influential ways to get your voice heard, not to mention that more then 80% of the people on this forum are not even into politics at all but more into, hey what kind of music should i as a hippy listen too? If i get dreadlocs am i a hippy? i smoke weed so i am a hippy. GET REAL.

Also i think that 60's early 70's were the end of Americas "happy days" as hippys protested on so many rights and changed the world so well. Todays society is a direct result of what hippys did in the 60's. thats why i find it so funny that you guys are asking why it can never be the same as the 60's nowadays. Give yourselves a pat on the back.

[SQUIDPUPPY]

To easy rider69... I'm totally surprised that you show such animosity and arrogance...Not that I haven't seen all that/heard it before etc.... Who are you to pontificate from on high??? I, for one am an ex vet. Honorable discharge and all that... I thought the war was wrong when I enlisted (only reason I went was to get out of a drug bust).. Personally, I should have had the guts and moral conviction to either have gone to Canada, or to have let the bastards throw me in prison for refusing to go to an immoral undeclared war.... At any rate; I have seen alot of what "lowly hippies" used to espouse, to actually come to pass.... Alot of the idealism and selflessness that hippies cared about has, in fact, carried into the subcultural mindset of the Amerrikkkan psyche...Example::: Who thinks it's morally right or justifiable to kick high-school kids out of school for something as trivial as how a person wears thier hair.... Remember your precious Miranda rights??? Do a Google on the facts behind that case... It goes on and on.... Check berkely free speech times etc etc.... You sound like an embittered person that takes a certain sort of pride and satisfaction in decrying anothers zest for life, and their hopefull outlook for a brighter tommorrow.... I feel somewhat sorry for you, but true, not a whole lot..... After all, some of the people of your mindset, have ended up becoming highly placed despots, fatcat industrialist etc etc... I find it wonderful that there are still the flames of the freedom fire burning brightly across this lil sphere we call Earth.......... (PEACE & ALL THAT OTHER DUMB HIPPY SHIT, EH)+++++++++++++++++++ SQUIDPUPPY

[floydianslip6]

easy_rider and everyone else, the experience of your uncle can easily be offset with the experience of a Vietnam veteran friend of mine. And vice versa Something like that has different meanings for different people.

Don't be so quick to discredit the entire social group, and likewise for everyone against easy_rider. They were complicated times. Nobodies right if every bodies wrong, as the springfield would say.

Aside from that, the 60s won't happen again because of economics. Think about the closeness of cost of living and average wages and think about todays relationship. It was possible to work and put yourself through school, as one example... or possible to travel the country on very small income.

Not that those things aren't still doable... but it's definitely not as easy. The focus has moved from transience to establishing roots, the rise of the suburb and the fall of the artist community.

[easy_rider69]

Squidpuppy - How does your story of pure circumstance have any relevance to anything i stated. (so your a hippy that got busted and was made to fullfill your duties as an American citizen feeling bitter the whole time. the way you make it sound was that you had an option to go or not and screwed it up.) mind you i dont know the facts or anything about you.

See, you descriminate against me for having a more professional / conservative outlook on life, and that makes you yet another "hippycrate"(new word lol) furthermore adding to my argument. I mearly stated that there are better ways of speaking your mind than doing drugs and bitching about how the system dosent work. You have to be part of the system before you can bitch in my opinion, this is like somebody that allways whines and complains about politics and never votes.
As for my "arrogence and animosity", im sorry if i state my opinion to straight forward. next time ill talk in words like dude and far out, maybe then you will cut me some slack.

Floydianslip6 - Good points.

[Littlefoot]

Why would you want that way of thinking again? Protests making heros look like villans and lazy scared "hippys" look like saints. NO THANKS. You old "hipppys" should be ashamed of yourselves for what you put allmost every vietnam vet through. Funny thing is back then you guys used to think that you were changin everything, but in fact when i look into the past, i see all hippys as nothing but scared lazy bums, to afraid to serve your duty as a citizen yet criticize everything your country stand for. Not in your case since you are canadian which is just weird that you would care so much about an AMERICAN war, oh wait it was a TREND to be a jobless travel everywhere bum, how could i forget.

Easy Rider,

There were basically two kinds of hippies. Not sure what we'd call them. Maybe
'protesters' and 'communitarians' ? I lived on a commune and folks like us had
a lot of sympathy for the guys who went to Nam. We thought they were more victims
than anything else. Misguided and used.

We were about building a better world, not hating the old ways. We tried. And failed.

Littlefoot

'Peace, like a river flows.'

[lovelyxmalia]

Lovelyxmalia, the reason i am on this forum, is that once i bought into all this love, peace, hippy junk that all people on here are doing, but i decided that i would much prefer to change the world on a more profesional level, as opposed to smoking a joint and blaming all problems on the system, why not actually change the system? I find that most hippys are pure hipocrates. No offence but there are way more influential ways to get your voice heard, not to mention that more then 80% of the people on this forum are not even into politics at all but more into, hey what kind of music should i as a hippy listen too? If i get dreadlocs am i a hippy? i smoke weed so i am a hippy. GET REAL.

Also i think that 60's early 70's were the end of Americas "happy days" as hippys protested on so many rights and changed the world so well. Todays society is a direct result of what hippys did in the 60's. thats why i find it so funny that you guys are asking why it can never be the same as the 60's nowadays. Give yourselves a pat on the back.easy rider, you don't have to agree with what we do/did...but please respect it.

You decided to take a different approach to your life-I respect that and admire that.

Please don't tell me that what I do is wrong because I would never say that about you. I don't smoke pot nor do I have dreadlocks. But I believe in love and peace and the reason I classify myself as a hippie is because I love every person I have ever met...no matter how bad of a person they may be and no matter how angry I get towards them.

The 60's and 70's may have been the end of the happier times. Now we have a "politically correct" society. I don't agree with our society but I respect it. Not only do I respect it, I feel that it can be changed by people who care about others. If you think about it, each person is put on this planet for other people. You go to work for people, your job was created to serve the growing economy. Why not show these people that you generally care about each and every one of them?

[easy_rider69]

Fair enough guys, sorry if i offended any of you. Cheers.

[hailtothekingbaby]

Of course! How can they NOT return??

2060-2069
2160-2169
2260-2269
etc...

See? Plenty of sixties yet to come.

[emelia]

^^^ I think he's on to something....

[nodirectionhome]

Of course! How can they NOT return??

2060-2069
2160-2169
2260-2269
etc...

See? Plenty of sixties yet to come.lol. :D Only 53 more years until the return of the hippie era! Quick, everyone, start saving up some acid! :P

[Littlefoot]

I see a lot of similar (yet, very different) political issues, wars, and negativity as was seen in the 60's. Do you think the "hippie hype" will ever return?

lovelyxmalia,

There was hype back then. That's what everyone saw on the Media. But there was a
true cultural revolution in progress, too.

Then and now, the Media (propaganda arm of the Money Party) shows you stoned
people with colorful clothes (or none) and long hair using weird slang and listening
to corporate rock (a lot of which was excellent).

What you didn't, and don't, see, is the heart of the movement: People out on
the Land, working together, trying to create a new society.

In 1970 there were about 3000 'communes' in at least 34 states. The people
who lived on most of them used less drugs by far than the typical American
neighborhood. We didn't wear outrageous clothes and lie around all day
smoking dope and listening to the Jerfferson Airplane. We dug wells and
chopped wood and planted gardens and wove cloth.

_We_ didn't call them 'communes'. That was the Media trying to make us
out to be Communists (we thought Communism was as bad as Capitalism).
_We_ called them 'villages'.

Seems to me that there's plenty of 'hippy hype' around, if I am understanding
you correctly. I see long hair and beads and tie-die and such all over the
place. So what? Costumes and role-playing aren't going to get us anywhere.

Littlefoot

[lovelyxmalia]

Of course! How can they NOT return??

2060-2069
2160-2169
2260-2269
etc...

See? Plenty of sixties yet to come.Wow! I gotta say I feel a little stupid now that I've asked http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/embarassed.gif haha

And Littlefoot...I agree with you. There is a lot of hippies still around new and old...but the movements aren't there. They don't play as big of a part anymore.

[taw]

I always believed that people should think about something more than just themselves,sometimes people forget theyre not the only ones in this world

[newo]

Hippies never disappeared altogether, as a real hippie doesn't care whether being a hippie is trendy. If the hippie lifestyle suits you then go with it rather than follow the crowd.

Lately there's been somewhat of a resurgence of hippies, at least in some places. Like in the 60s we are fighting an unpopular quagmire of a war with no end in sight, presided over by a corrupt president and his government. We've seen many of the gains we made in the 60s being gradually eroded away. When the culture becomes increasingly negative the counterculture grows.

[hailtothekingbaby]

Wow! I gotta say I feel a little stupid now that I've asked http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/embarassed.gif hahaOh don't be. I understood what you mean. :)

A counterculture as big and public as it was like in the 1960s might return... and it may not. It will depend on a lot of factors: the political climate, the attitude towards that by the youth and their willingness to do something against in on a large scale, among many others. The political climate is of course already worsening, a fertile ground for activism on a large scale. Now all we gotta do is wake up today's young people out of their apathy.

But I think it will not be as psychedelic as it was in the hippie period. People have a different style now, and I think dressing like the hippies did isn't going to make activists look more serious. Plus, it's been done before, and rehashing all that tie-dye and dropping acid in the middle of the street sounds really nice, but it was spontaneous back then and I don't think we should try to model a new counterculture after a previous one, just let things run their course and see what it looks like. All we can do is to keep trying to make people aware of the world around them.

[SummerEco]

[QUOTE=newo]Hippies never disappeared altogether, as a real hippie doesn't care whether being a hippie is trendy. If the hippie lifestyle suits you then go with it rather than follow the crowd.

i agree with that ^^ and "The thing the sixties did, was show us the possibility and responsibility that we all had. It wasn't the answer. It just gave us a glimpse of the possibility."

[hippie at heart]

in my opinion, i dont think that the hippie era will return. because i think that september 11 has changed the world in the sense that security is more tight, petrol prices has gone up etc. if that tragedy with the world trade center hadnt happend i personaly think we may have been in wid a chance with things being more open and free... like they used to.


and seeing as some of you have posted on here about the vietnam war, i just thought i'd share my conection on that case. i have an uncle who i think did one or two i cant remember duties of veitnam and i think its scewed him up. not that i was alive prior to him joining the war, but from what my mum has told me he lives at the rsl and drinks... and my other uncle has a friend who is afraid to fly cos of that war.... i personaly think that australia nor america and wichever country was involved in that war should have been involved in that war or the one we're fighting at the moment with iraq.

[floydianslip6]

i have an uncle who i think did one or two i cant remember duties of veitnam and i think its scewed him up. I recently made a very good friend at a small private bar in my neighborhood that was a sniper in veitnam. He's shared with me some very personal stories about the war which I won't get into here.

But the most telling thing he told me, is that when he got back he was really screwed up, and the one thing that he needed, that they took away was the ability to love. He was constantly put in situations where he had to defend himself or die. Kill others or be killed. After a long enough time of that it's hard to go back to normal society.

He said the greatest thing his (ex)wife did for him was slowly teach him how to love again. He also mentioned that a lot of his good friend were never able to get back to society. They are currently dug in, living around the local reservoir and hopping around the city homeless and in shelters. He visits them sometimes.

[hippie at heart]

thats the thing wid the vietnam war as opposed to the 1st-2nd world war. the soldiers that came back from korea and vietnam were not helped as much as they should have cos it wasnt classed as an actual war or so i have been told. if i'm wrong please recorect me.

[crankyelbow]

The mentality of the 60's was not to ask this question, but to answer it with a yes. That is, a hippy from the 60's transported to today would have to answer "yes, because I will be a part of it".

Anything is possible, I will more than happily join the movement!!!

[Littlefoot]

Oh don't be. I understood what you mean. :)

A counterculture as big and public as it was like in the 1960s might return... and it may not. It will depend on a lot of factors: the political climate, the attitude towards that by the youth and their willingness to do something against in on a large scale, among many others. The political climate is of course already worsening, a fertile ground for activism on a large scale. Now all we gotta do is wake up today's young people out of their apathy.

But I think it will not be as psychedelic as it was in the hippie period. People have a different style now, and I think dressing like the hippies did isn't going to make activists look more serious. Plus, it's been done before, and rehashing all that tie-dye and dropping acid in the middle of the street sounds really nice, but it was spontaneous back then and I don't think we should try to model a new counterculture after a previous one, just let things run their course and see what it looks like. All we can do is to keep trying to make people aware of the world around them.

You are just referring to the urban hippies, the wannabees.

All show and no go. Not getting a haircut and dressing up in costumes
and taking drugs and waving signs and having a lot of sex are not
grand accomplishments.

The real culural revolution of the sixties and seventies took place in the
rural areas.

According to historian Charles Pierce LeWarne in his 1975 book,
"Utopias on Puget Sound" there were approximately 3000 hippy
communes in 34 states in 1970.

Sure, a lot of those communes were just places for the urban hippies
to hang out and dabble at gardening and offend the locals and party.

But there was a solid core of communes that were seriously working
on creating a new society. That became more and more self-sufficient
as time went by.

These communes scared the hell out of both the straights, and the
urban hippies (who had no intention of doing anything but play the
role) and were deliberately destroyed by the use of un-Constitutional
laws. Like excessive building, health, and safety codes and land-use
(zoning) restrictiond and home-schooling bans.

Much of that is documented in this book:

"The Owner-Builder and The Code - Politics of Building Your Home"
Kern,Ken; Kogon, Ted; Thallon, Publisher: Owner-Builder Publications

America had to destroy the movement without admitting to the world
that it wasn't a free country. So it couldn't do the honest thing and
just ban them, they had to sneak around and stab them in the back.

The real communitarian movement is the only important aspect of the
hippy revolution and is what we need to revive..

What did the urban hippies accomplish? Ending the Vietnam war
after millions had been killed and the country had been virtually destroyed?
That's about it. Not very impressive.

No, what are called "communes" and "ecovillages" on these forums
are not what I'm talking about. These are elitist country retreats that
are utterly dependent upon mainstream civilization.

As were many of the original hippy communes.

A true hippy commune embraces a lifestyle that can be shared
by everyone on the planet.

Littlefoot

"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

America! Fuck NO!!!

[Lucy_Belle]

I just have a few thigns to say about the youth.. atleast in America. Just sit bak=ck and watch MTV for a day or two, and you'll get the picture. The youth of America has no direction, and without direction, uness someone steps up, they are lost. It saddens me that so many have become so blind and withdrawn.

[Littlefoot]

I just have a few thigns to say about the youth.. atleast in America. Just sit bak=ck and watch MTV for a day or two, and you'll get the picture. The youth of America has no direction, and without direction, uness someone steps up, they are lost. It saddens me that so many have become so blind and withdrawn.

I have seen this too. It is sad. I think it has something to do with being raised
in environments where the reality they see is contradicted by the words of
supposed authorities: The TV, their teachers, their textbooks, their parents.

For example: Everyone tells them that this is "The Greatest Country On Earth."

Yet everywhere they see miserable and frightened and unhealthy people....

But I don't have a lot of experience in this area and would be pleased if you would
just let it all hang out here.

Littlefoot

"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." REM

[Lucy_Belle]

I know. Changing others is not my place... but it's just frustrating to watch.

[Littlefoot]

I know. Changing others is not my place... but it's just frustrating to watch.

I believe that Ghandi said: "Become the changes you want to see in the world."

Littlefoot

[nextGENERATIONhippie]

I see a lot of similar (yet, very different) political issues, wars, and negativity as was seen in the 60's. Do you think the "hippie hype" will ever return?
I'm not sure, I just don't knwo if hippis have enough numbers to make a comeback. Alot of teenagers are politcally apathetc. However, if we took a lot of the members of this forums and moved them all to one location, we could possibly make a comback :) lol, if I dont think "hippie hype" will ever return, but i do think we can create OUR OWN culture of love and peace, but it may take a while

[rainbow_magnolia]

God, wouldn't it be beautiful??
Knowing what our generations knows now, with technology and all, i don't think it can be done.
see how we are all on te internet?? sending messages back and forth?
it makes it to easy to avoid contact,
when really "we should be together!!"

[Littlefoot]

I'm not sure, I just don't knwo if hippis have enough numbers to make a comeback. Alot of teenagers are politcally apathetc. However, if we took a lot of the members of this forums and moved them all to one location, we could possibly make a comback :) lol, if I dont think "hippie hype" will ever return, but i do think we can create OUR OWN culture of love and peace, but it may take a while

If that culture of love and peace is dependent upon mainstream society, like
most of the hippy communities of yesterday and today are, then it will be
as phony and elitist as they were/are.

A real hippy community embraces a lifestyle that everyone on Earth can
share. It's not a country retreat that requires ugly factories and mines and
de facto slaves and wars to maintain.

Littlefoot

[hippymuso]

Do you mean the 60's and 70's are over?

Damn, musta missed it, been living as a hermit in the Aussie bush for many years.

In all seriousness, those days can never come back again, same shit different era. They call them greenies and conservationists now. Love will remain.

[Littlefoot]

Do you mean the 60's and 70's are over?

Damn, musta missed it, been living as a hermit in the Aussie bush for many years.

In all seriousness, those days can never come back again, same shit different era. They call them greenies and conservationists now. Love will remain.

We can do better than we did then. If we'd just accept the simple fact that
this civilziation can't be tweaked to become Earth-friendly, peaceful, and
non-exploitative. It has to be shitcanned..

By-the-way, they say that if you remember the 60's, you weren't there.

:-)

LIttlefoot

[crimsonbegonias]

well it's up to us isn't it?

[sonnysays]

There was a period in the last half of the 18th Century, known as the Romantic Era, that was very much like the 60's. In music, prose, and other art, artists were evolving their styles in radical ways.

Also, the subject of most art was anti-industrialization and a return to nature. It was the time of Wordsworth, Beethoven, Goethe. Lord Byron wrote "Don Juan" which was (for that time) sexually explicit and very unconventional. Keats' "The Eve of St. Agnes" was so full of lust, his publisher made him tone it down before publication. Mary Shelley wrote "Frankenstein" as a protest against the Industrial Revolution.

The Boston Tea Party and other acts of rebellion were not unlike the protests of the 60's. The events that led up to the Boston Massacre and the killing of the protesters on the streets of Boston were unbelievably similar to the events leading up to the Kent State Massacre and the killing of the protesters on the campus of Kent State University. Women protested their subjugated roles in society and there were anti-slavery sentiments in most industrialized areas.

The social upheaval of the Romantic Era forever changed the world. It gave us democracy, liberty, and equality and it gave the poor and downtrodden hope for a better life. As did the social upheaval of the 60's.

When the conditions are right--and I am sure they will be right again--there will be another era like the 60's and the Romantic period.

[sonnysays]

I forgot to mention in my last post that communes were formed in several areas of America.

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

Why would you want that way of thinking again? Protests making heros look like villans and lazy scared "hippys" look like saints. NO THANKS. You old "hipppys" should be ashamed of yourselves for what you put allmost every vietnam vet through. Funny thing is back then you guys used to think that you were changin everything, but in fact when i look into the past, i see all hippys as nothing but scared lazy bums, to afraid to serve your duty as a citizen yet criticize everything your country stand for. Not in your case since you are canadian which is just weird that you would care so much about an AMERICAN war, oh wait it was a TREND to be a jobless travel everywhere bum, how could i forget.why r u on a hippie forum?

[LoveMore]

why r u on a hippie forum?...my thoughts exactly. I'm the proud daughter of a Vietnam Veteran and he is supportive of me.

[ChiefCowpie]

i foresee the sixties as being a little more than 52 years away

[Littlefoot]

Originally Posted by easy_rider69
"Why would you want that way of thinking again? Protests making heros look like villans and lazy scared "hippys" look like saints. NO THANKS. You old "hipppys" should be ashamed of yourselves for what you put allmost every vietnam vet through. Funny thing is back then you guys used to think that you were changin everything, but in fact when i look into the past, i see all hippys as nothing but scared lazy bums, to afraid to serve your duty as a citizen yet criticize everything your country stand for. Not in your case since you are canadian which is just weird that you would care so much about an AMERICAN war, oh wait it was a TREND to be a jobless travel everywhere bum, how could i forget."

XBloodyNailPolishX responded with:

"why r u on a hippy forum?"

Because he knows there's something important to learn here. I appreciate his honesty.

The way some of the hippies treated the soldiers returning from Vietnam was disgusting.
And it came from their guilty consciences.

They were (and are) as dependent upon the American economy as anyone else, hippy or straight,
and this economy cannot survive without the brutal work of America's imperial armed
forces. It needs the de facto slave labor and the new markets and the new resources.

The hippies wouldn't have had the time to protest and demonstrate and hang out and
smoke dope and listen to rock music and fuck around on the typical commune if it
wasn't for the excess wealth generated by the corporations.

And that's what the army does: It makes sure that the corporations get their way
around the world.

Having long hair and hippy clothes and using all the hip words and listening to
radical rock and smoking dope instead of drinking booze doesn't make you
different from anyone else. It's just a costume.

Littlefoot

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

Why would you want that way of thinking again? Protests making heros look like villans and lazy scared "hippys" look like saints. NO THANKS. You old "hipppys" should be ashamed of yourselves for what you put allmost every vietnam vet through. Funny thing is back then you guys used to think that you were changin everything, but in fact when i look into the past, i see all hippys as nothing but scared lazy bums, to afraid to serve your duty as a citizen yet criticize everything your country stand for. Not in your case since you are canadian which is just weird that you would care so much about an AMERICAN war, oh wait it was a TREND to be a jobless travel everywhere bum, how could i forget.Duty as a citizen? sorry, but its WRONG to force someone to fight. And you're making very hateful, generalized statements. One of my friends is a Vietnam Vet, and you know what? Now he's an awesome hippie.

[Littlefoot]

easy_rider69 wrote:

"Why would you want that way of thinking again? Protests making heros look like villans and lazy scared "hippys" look like saints. NO THANKS. You old "hipppys" should be ashamed of yourselves for what you put allmost every vietnam vet through. Funny thing is back then you guys used to think that you were changin everything, but in fact when i look into the past, i see all hippys as nothing but scared lazy bums, to afraid to serve your duty as a citizen yet criticize everything your country stand for. Not in your case since you are canadian which is just weird that you would care so much about an AMERICAN war, oh wait it was a TREND to be a jobless travel everywhere bum, how could i forget."

XBloodyNailPolishX replied:

"Duty as a citizen? sorry, but its WRONG to force someone to fight."

You live in an economy that requires fighting to sustain it. Always has.
Why sholdn't you do your share?

I refused to go to Vietnam. But I also moved to a 'commune' that was
about 95% materially self-sufficient.

We weren't living off the spoils of war like you are.

You are a blinking hypocrite. You want to send other people to
do your dirty work for you and pretend that your hands are clean.

Littlefoot

[Therese Aline]

I think there's too much apathy in the world today for anything like that to ever exist again, sadly. It's become so hard to have a voice it seems the whole country believes they don't have a voice at all. Plus, the government sent a strong message during that time that if you rock the boat you get punished pretty harshly. People are afraid. The government has become even more powerful since then. We're already losing freedom, I think communism is a possible future for us. (God help us if it is.) Think what they'd do to us if we fucked with them now. Or when it's worse.
Fear is a huge obstacle.

[Littlefoot]

I think there's too much apathy in the world today for anything like that to ever exist again, sadly.


That's what the Media wants you to believe. Which is to say what the
Corpoations want you to believe.

There's more real 'revolution' now than there was back then. It's just that
the new pioneers keep a very low profile. We made the mistake in the
60's of believing that this was a free country (USA) and they have learned
from our mistakes.



It's become so hard to have a voice it seems the whole country believes they don't have a voice at all.
Talk's cheap. ACT!

"Become the changes you want to see in the world." --Ghandi


Plus, the government sent a strong message during that time that if you rock the boat you get punished pretty harshly.

That's why the new revolution is underground. And why mere talk won't
even get you near it. You have to be trying to live in a truly progressive
way or you'll never see a sign.


People are afraid. The government has become even more powerful since then. We're already losing freedom, I think communism is a possible future for us. (God help us if it is.) Think what they'd do to us if we fucked with them now. Or when it's worse.
Fear is a huge obstacle.

That's true. But you don't have to be afraid of the government (which is to say,
the majority of the people) if they don't know you are doing something that
would seriously offend them.

But you better believe that the government and the majority of the people are
the same thing, because it's a fact, no matter what kind of words they use
or costumes they wear. The seemingly hippest hippy will turn your ass in
so fast it will make your head spin, because they are just wearing a costume
and playing a role. They have no desire to see the System that makes their
cushy, elitist (in global terms) lifestyle possible, come to end. And they have
no intention of giving it up.


Littlefoot

[homeiswheretheloveis]

I again with XBloodynailpolishX itis wrong to forcesomeone to fight in the war. I found what Lennon was doing too stop the war in the 60's/70's and bring back the vietnam vet's home, and I am a hippie and I believe it is wrong for wars to have ever been started, all they fucking do is show and give kids the thoughts in there minds to go to war when there older, and die. I mean look at the violence on the news in most streets. i mean every one dies, but they shouldn't have to die by guns, knifes, rapists, killers, gangs, terrorists. it just doesn't need to happen at all. All the world needs is happiness and peace.

[Littlefoot]

I again with XBloodynailpolishX itis wrong to forcesomeone to fight in the war.


War is wrong. But this country has to make war, either directly or by proxy,
in order for its minority (in global terms) population to consume most of
the world's resources.

So if you are going to be a part of such an economy, you should do whatever
is needed to make it happen. Your fair share.

If you don't want to support war, then don't live in this economy. You can't
have your cake and eat it too.


I found what Lennon was doing too stop the war in the 60's/70's and bring back the vietnam vet's home,


John Lennon was filthy rich. It's real easy to say anything, but he lived like
a king while children starved to death all over the world, and he certainly
was for, in his heart (revealed by his actions) the war machine that provided
his riches.

We have way too many people around with wonderul ideas, and far too
few who do anything real to make them happen.


and I am a hippie and I believe it is wrong for wars to have ever been started,


True, but you coudn't live like you do without them.

Or you have you forgotten basic things like the fact you live on a stolen
continent?

If you live like a middle class person, you are consuming far more than
you could produce, no matter how hard you worked.

That means that someone is producing far more than they consume.

Like the people who pick and process fruits and vegetables so that you
can afford to eat animal products at every meal (I'm assuming that you
have a typical American diet, and could be wrong.)

If you had to pay an honest price for those vegetables then you wouldn't
be eating so many animal products, I assure you.

And the exploitation of minorities is a lot more serious in other countries,
where most of the stuff Americans consume come from.


all they fucking do is show and give kids the thoughts in there minds to go to war when there older, and die. I mean look at the violence on the news in most streets. i mean every one dies, but they shouldn't have to die by guns, knifes, rapists, killers, gangs, terrorists. it just doesn't need to happen at all. All the world needs is happiness and peace.

Great. How are you going to have peace when your country consumes most
of the world's resources? Think everyone around the world is going to go:

"Sure, go ahead and take our land and trash it for all the stuff that Americans
and Europeans want. We'll even toil in your plantations and mines and
factories and sweatshops for dirt cheap because you are just so wonderful
and our lives are worth nothing."

Peace and Love? Sure. But talk is really CHEAP!

"If you would do good in the world, first make sure you are doing no evil."

--Ghandi

Littlefoot

[LoveMore]

Littlefoot, you make some great points. :)

[peacechicka1]

Emelia, I couldnt agree more. Bravismo! Couldnt have said it better myself. We ALL should care about what goes on in the world, and come together as one people to help stop the violence of immature and unneccessary wars.

And easy_rider, not all of us smoke pot and blame the system. As a matter of fact, after I graduate next summer I am joining the armed forces. Why? Because I want to serve and travel and meet other people. I dont have dreadlocks, I think they are cool, but would I get some? No. Do I look forward to peace on the earth? Yes. A new tomorrow in which we could change from a time of war to our missed and loved soldiers coming home and seeing their loved ones once again? You bet your ass I do. I dont consider myself a hippie actually. I consider myself to be one intellectual being in search of nature's way of living, peaceful living, believing in the belief that every single person on earth is to be tolerated and loved as one's own brother or sister. If you dont like it, then consider going to another place. However you have your own story and opinion.

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

easy_rider69 wrote:

"Why would you want that way of thinking again? Protests making heros look like villans and lazy scared "hippys" look like saints. NO THANKS. You old "hipppys" should be ashamed of yourselves for what you put allmost every vietnam vet through. Funny thing is back then you guys used to think that you were changin everything, but in fact when i look into the past, i see all hippys as nothing but scared lazy bums, to afraid to serve your duty as a citizen yet criticize everything your country stand for. Not in your case since you are canadian which is just weird that you would care so much about an AMERICAN war, oh wait it was a TREND to be a jobless travel everywhere bum, how could i forget."

XBloodyNailPolishX replied:

"Duty as a citizen? sorry, but its WRONG to force someone to fight."

You live in an economy that requires fighting to sustain it. Always has.
Why sholdn't you do your share?

I refused to go to Vietnam. But I also moved to a 'commune' that was
about 95% materially self-sufficient.

We weren't living off the spoils of war like you are.

You are a blinking hypocrite. You want to send other people to
do your dirty work for you and pretend that your hands are clean.

LittlefootIt is NEVER ok to force someone to kill for a war they don't believe in. NOTHING requires violence and murder.

[ChiefCowpie]

the sixties will arrive on dec 31, 2059 at 12:00 pm

[Littlefoot]

It is NEVER ok to force someone to kill for a war they don't believe in.


You persist in self-servingly closing your mind to the big picture here.

What you are saying is the equivalent of: 'I'm not going to work for
a living because all those nasty corporations are trashing the environment
and I don't believe in trashing the environment'

Yet you still buy and use their products and services.

How convenient. And that's all I'm seeing here from you.
Self-serving hot air.

From day 1, and before, warfare has been necessary to make this
country work.

You wouldn't be living as you do without it.

You want all the benefits of living here but you don't want
to do your fair share of the dirty work.

You think that just because you don't pick up a gun that
you don't have blood on your hands?

Those uniformed terrorists are over there doing what is
necessary to make it possible for you to live as you do.

I'll respect you when you walk your talk and refuse
to partake of the spoils of war.

Right now you are just a bag of hot air and a spoiled jerk
who wants all the benefits of living in imperial America
but doesn't want to do his share of the dirty work.

You want to pretend that you are different just because
you don't believe in war.

Talk is cheap. And so are you.



NOTHING requires violence and murder.

Wrong. Americans, and that's YOU buddy, consume most
of the world's resources and yet are only about 8% of
its population. You can't do that without violence and
a lot of it..

There's blood on your hands, dude. You can't make it go away
with a bunch of Liberal double-speak.

You don't have to pull the trigger or drop the bombs. You just
have to patronize the corporations that do it for you.

And you DO do that.

And no corporation could exist for a week without customers.
They just take your money and buy weapons and soldiers
with it.

LIttlefoot

[Littlefoot]

LoveMore,

Thanks. I really try to think clearly and do the research necessary to
make that possible. It helps to have been around during the Hippy Era
and today, too.

Littlefoot

[Littlefoot]

the sixties will arrive on dec 31, 2059 at 12:00 pm

They'll be back long before then. But that's pretty funny.

Join me in creating a new God...the old one isn't doing too good of a job


Not quite, ChiefCowpie (dam it's hard to take someone with a name like
that seriously!)

We've had enough of the gods created by man. Time to get in touch with
the God that creates man. And everything else.

Littlefoot

[homeiswheretheloveis]

I would like to do my part in helping to make this world a better place, and i definitely don't believe that wars will make it peaceful. some people just need to clean the shit out of there fucking brains, thats just my opinion.

peace and much love

[Littlefoot]

I would like to do my part in helping to make this world a better place,


"Become the changes you want to see in the world." --Ghandi


and i definitely don't believe that wars will make it peaceful.

I don't think anyone really believes that. But America, supposedly
the world's Good Guy, needs a lot of different ways to disguise
its brutal imperialism.

It's like the bullshit we hear all the time about people needing
guns for defense. Guns aren't defensive tools, they are offensive
tools. They aren't any good for defense at all unless you know
the attack is coming and the attackers don't know you know this
and you can get a shot at them, which usually isn't possible
except in the movies People who have them aren't interested in
defense, they are interested in dominating others with violence.

A while back I expressed the above observations to a fellow who carries
a concealed pistol. He laughed at and showed me the gun and
told me he could make me do anything he wanted.

So I kicked him in the nuts and took his gun while he was
lying on the ground whimpering in a fetal position, and threw it into
the bushes. I heard later that he was never able to find it.

If you are interested in defense, you get a shield of some kind,
not something that does only one thing: Kill people.


some people just need to clean the shit out of there fucking brains, thats just my opinion.

Couldn't agree more. You could post the 800 number for Roto-Rooter....:-)

peace and much love

Being peaceful and loving doesn't mean that you have to be defenseless
or passive. It's okay to defend yourself if you stop short of brutality.
(meaning killing or permanently disabling someone)

LIttlefoot

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

A while back I expressed the above observations to a fellow who carries
a concealed pistol. He laughed at and showed me the gun and
told me he could make me do anything he wanted.

So I kicked him in the nuts and took his gun while he was
lying on the ground whimpering in a fetal position, and threw it into
the bushes. I heard later that he was never able to find it.fucking hilarious.

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

You persist in self-servingly closing your mind to the big picture here.

What you are saying is the equivalent of: 'I'm not going to work for
a living because all those nasty corporations are trashing the environment
and I don't believe in trashing the environment'

Yet you still buy and use their products and services.

How convenient. And that's all I'm seeing here from you.
Self-serving hot air.

From day 1, and before, warfare has been necessary to make this
country work.

You wouldn't be living as you do without it.

You want all the benefits of living here but you don't want
to do your fair share of the dirty work.

You think that just because you don't pick up a gun that
you don't have blood on your hands?

Those uniformed terrorists are over there doing what is
necessary to make it possible for you to live as you do.

I'll respect you when you walk your talk and refuse
to partake of the spoils of war.

Right now you are just a bag of hot air and a spoiled jerk
who wants all the benefits of living in imperial America
but doesn't want to do his share of the dirty work.

You want to pretend that you are different just because
you don't believe in war.

Talk is cheap. And so are you.



Wrong. Americans, and that's YOU buddy, consume most
of the world's resources and yet are only about 8% of
its population. You can't do that without violence and
a lot of it..

There's blood on your hands, dude. You can't make it go away
with a bunch of Liberal double-speak.

You don't have to pull the trigger or drop the bombs. You just
have to patronize the corporations that do it for you.

And you DO do that.

And no corporation could exist for a week without customers.
They just take your money and buy weapons and soldiers
with it.

LIttlefootyou're making a lot of assumptions here. And also being very rude and hateful. You're making statements without any proof and attacking me for no reason. I never said I was against the soldiers; I'm against war, and anyone with half a brain would feel the same. It sounds to me like you're assuming that because the US has supposedly "needed" war in the past, it always will. WRONG. And THAT, my friend, is close mindedness.
And you can try to give me a guilt trip all you want, MAN. I have no blood on my hands... are you one of those crazy christians who assume that everyone is a sinner? Sorry, I know how I'm living my life, and I've done nothing wrong. I've also done nothing to deserve your rudeness or verbal abuse. I have not once insulted, attacked, or hurt you, yet you chose to attack me, and assume I'm a guy even, lol
It seems to me you have a lot of rage and anger built up in you, and I'm sorry for that, I really am. I actually do massage and would love to help you out. Some people, like you, FIGHT, and some people like me, HEAL.
Pretend that I am different? Everyone is different and unique and has every right to hold their beliefs.
You keep saying you'll respect me if I do this, that, etc. But the fact is, you don't know me. And you make assumptions. I'm going purely off your behaivor, which says to me you're a very hateful, angry, rageful person.
I don't know why you feel you have to insult me and make assumptions about me. Perhaps you've run out of arguments, and you're just very angry.
and to that my friend, I say this:

CHILL

[newo]

There's blood on your hands, dude. You can't make it go away
with a bunch of Liberal double-speak.

You don't have to pull the trigger or drop the bombs. You just
have to patronize the corporations that do it for you.

And you DO do that.

And no corporation could exist for a week without customers.
They just take your money and buy weapons and soldiers
with it.

LIttlefootYou make a compelling argument, though you come across as bitter and cynical.

Earlier you said, “I refused to go to Vietnam. But I also moved to a 'commune' that was
about 95% materially self-sufficient.” I applaud you for that. I never joined a commune, though I visited a couple, one of which tried to be self-sufficient. It failed because the people there had no farming experience and the crops they grew ranged from fair to poor. Sadly, this was the fate of most communes of the sixties.

Yes we support the corporations, but the corporations have made us dependent on them. How long would the average American last if forced to grow, gather or hunt for his own food? Build his own shelter or make his own clothes? These are skills that have been lost for generations. I’m just as guilty as anyone, perhaps more so. My mother had a large garden in our back yard where she grew vegetables, but I wasn’t interested in it. I had an uncle who was a carpenter and I could have gone to work for him building houses, but again I wasn’t interested. I had other choices.

In America there are more players of World of Warcraft than there are farmers. It’s strange but if the system collapses, the people in the third world might come out of it best since they’re more self-sufficient than those of us on top of the heap.

[homeiswheretheloveis]

the one thing i don't get, is what are the terrorists problems. I mean why do they need to crash air planes and kill a lot of innocent people. I mean what the hell have we done to them, if we have done anything bad to them ? and also I don't want to be rude but I totally disagree with littlefoot, the economy could still work without war, the money use to buy weapons for war, could be used to feed the hungry people, all the wars are doing is showing little kids that it is ok to kill people, even the news talks about gang memebers killing women, old men, other kids that come in to the alley and all kinds of shit like that, but in my opinion it is wrong, and all of you on here can disagree with me but thats ok, you all have your own opinions. I hope i haven't run off topic?



much love and peace to all of you

[Littlefoot]

You make a compelling argument, though you come across as bitter and cynical.



I am neither. I just don't cut psuedo-progressives any slack. Talk is cheap.


Earlier you said, “I refused to go to Vietnam. But I also moved to a 'commune' that was
about 95% materially self-sufficient.” I applaud you for that. I never joined a commune, though I visited a couple, one of which tried to be self-sufficient. It failed because the people there had no farming experience and the crops they grew ranged from fair to poor. Sadly, this was the fate of most communes of the sixties.

It was a very diverse movement. Many communes failed because they knew
what they were against but not what they were for. Many failed because
the Straights shut them by enforcing Building, Health, and Safety Codes,
which couldn't, and can't, be obeyed by anyone trying to live a truly
progressive lifestyle.


Yes we support the corporations, but the corporations have made us dependent on them.

We are the corporations. We are the consumers, the workers, and
the investors. We made and maintain them.


How long would the average American last if forced to grow, gather or hunt for his own food? Build his own shelter or make his own clothes? These are skills that have been lost for generations.


True. Yet all those skills can be learned in a remarkably short time.
You can make a very good life living directly from the land.
As long as you ignore most of the "experts" who want you to believe
that you can live a minor variation of your current lifestyle and
are usually merchants in disguise.


I’m just as guilty as anyone, perhaps more so. My mother had a large garden in our back yard where she grew vegetables, but I wasn’t interested in it. I had an uncle who was a carpenter and I could have gone to work for him building houses, but again I wasn’t interested. I had other choices.


That was then, this is now.


In America there are more players of World of Warcraft than there are farmers. It’s strange but if the system collapses, the people in the third world might come out of it best since they’re more self-sufficient than those of us on top of the heap.
[/QUOTE]

That's quite true.

LIttlefoot

"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

[Littlefoot]

you're making a lot of assumptions here. And also being very rude and hateful. You're making statements without any proof and attacking me for no reason. I never said I was against the soldiers; I'm against war, and anyone with half a brain would feel the same. It sounds to me like you're assuming that because the US has supposedly "needed" war in the past, it always will. WRONG. And THAT, my friend, is close mindedness.
And you can try to give me a guilt trip all you want, MAN. I have no blood on my hands... are you one of those crazy christians who assume that everyone is a sinner? Sorry, I know how I'm living my life, and I've done nothing wrong. I've also done nothing to deserve your rudeness or verbal abuse. I have not once insulted, attacked, or hurt you, yet you chose to attack me, and assume I'm a guy even, lol
It seems to me you have a lot of rage and anger built up in you, and I'm sorry for that, I really am. I actually do massage and would love to help you out. Some people, like you, FIGHT, and some people like me, HEAL.
Pretend that I am different? Everyone is different and unique and has every right to hold their beliefs.
You keep saying you'll respect me if I do this, that, etc. But the fact is, you don't know me. And you make assumptions. I'm going purely off your behaivor, which says to me you're a very hateful, angry, rageful person.
I don't know why you feel you have to insult me and make assumptions about me. Perhaps you've run out of arguments, and you're just very angry.
and to that my friend, I say this:

CHILL


If we could fix the world just by claiming that we aren't a part of the problem,
the world wouldn't need any fixing.

Talk is cheap.

And my-oh-my, you are a real windbag.

Littlefoot

[homeiswheretheloveis]

hey man i have a question, why do you have to call people windbags ? just curious.


much love

[Littlefoot]

hey man i have a question, why do you have to call people windbags ? just curious.


much love

I don't call people windbags. I called that person a windbag.
You won't find an example of me calling anyone else a windbag anywhere
that I can recall.

Why do you accuse people of doing things they don't do?

Just curious.

I called HIM a windbag because that's the way he was behaving:
He wants to pretend that he isn't a part of the problem (we all are)
and was pumping out hot air by the truckload to rationalize his
untenable position.

He's a psude-progressive who doesn't walk his talk. He just talks
and talks and expects us to take that as a substitute for real action.
Like so many fake radicals, he expects us to believe he is a radical
just because he says he is. And he has a hip alias and knows
all the hip words and probably has dreadlocks (or wears some
other costume).

t's best to call things what they are. Only when the world is a perfect
place will all labels be positive.

If everyone who claimed to be progressive was actually
progressive, the world wouldn't be a mess, would it?

gushing piles of love and peace and flowers and rainbows and
hemp tote bags and GreenPeace bumper stickers

LIttlefoot

[Littlefoot]

the one thing i don't get, is what are the terrorists problems. I mean why do they need to crash air planes and kill a lot of innocent people. I mean what the hell have we done to them, if we have done anything bad to them ?


Just for starters, the U.S. has bombed Muslims in Indonesia, Kuwait, Iran,
Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Libya, and Afghanistan.

I would call mass murder and destruction in someone else's country,
"doing something to them", wouldn't you?


and also I don't want to be rude but I totally disagree with littlefoot, the economy could still work without war, the money use to buy weapons for war, could be used to feed the hungry people, all the wars are doing is showing little kids that it is ok to kill people,


You can disagree all you want. There's no way for a small percentage of
the people to consume most of the world's resources without violence.

There wouldn't even BE an America if the 'Native Americans' hadn't
been killed or rounded up and imprisoned on reservations.

Or do you think they would have just voluntarily cut their own throats
or burned their villages and marched off to the reservations if we had
asked them nicely?

What's going on in the Middle East is just variation on that same theme.

Oil is only part of it. But you wouldn't want to live in America if there
wasn't an abundance of cheap oil. It is the basic energy source of
the whole economy.


even the news talks about gang memebers killing women, old men, other kids that come in to the alley and all kinds of shit like that, but in my opinion it is wrong, and all of you on here can disagree with me but thats ok, you all have your own opinions. I hope i haven't run off topic?


I certainly don't mind. You have a right to your opinions. But you really
need to open your eyes and do some homework.

Wars don't happen just because some rotten people decide to have one.
They are how bullies force other people to do what they want them to do.

And America is the biggest baddest bully there every was.

It sees something it wants and it takes it.

And most of the people who benefit from that taking pretend that they
aren't responsible in any way for it, or that what was really going on
was some kind of good deed or justice in action, that had nothing to
do with material greed.


much love and peace to all of you[/QUOTE]

Same to you. Nice to meet ya,

Littlefoot

[newo]

Oh no, you're not bitter or cynical at all...:rolleyes:

[homeiswheretheloveis]

littlefoot, i didn't mean to accuse you of calling everyone windbags, i meant just to ask why you called bloodynailpolish that ?. and also i sorry i didn't know america bombed those places, and i did know america was a bad bully but i didn't know it was that bad of a bully. i'm not trying to piss you or anyone else off, i just want to help make this world peaceful thats all man.



peace and much love to you, and it was also nice to meet you

[Littlefoot]

Oh no, you're not bitter or cynical at all...:rolleyes:

I am not bitter or cynical at all. I'm describing the way things are.

You don't want to face reality so you try to shoot the messenger.

This is quite typical of American psuedo-progressives who live
like everyone else and pretend that they are enlightened and
superior beings.

It's because of phonies like you that we don't get anywhere.

Littlefoot

[Littlefoot]

littlefoot, i didn't mean to accuse you of calling everyone windbags, i meant just to ask why you called bloodynailpolish that ?. and also i sorry i didn't know america bombed those places, and i did know america was a bad bully but i didn't know it was that bad of a bully. i'm not trying to piss you or anyone else off, i just want to help make this world peaceful thats all man.

peace and much love to you, and it was also nice to meet you

Likewise, homeiswherethe loveis.

A lot of people, including almost everyone on these Forums, want to make
the world a better place.

Unfortunately, they want to make fundamental changes in the world but
they don't want to make fundamental changes in their own lifestyle.

This never works.

And in this case, it is the very lifestyle practiced by most of us that
_is_ the problem.

That's why we have a huge environmental movement that isn't
accomplishing anything, for example.

No one means any harm. But hundreds of millions of people living
a Middle-Class lifestyle is destroying the planet and requires
de facto slavery and warfare.

Whether the people involved _want_ those things to happen or not,
their collective lifestyle requires it.

And we aren't going to get anywhere unless we face reality.

Lttlefoot

[homeiswheretheloveis]

you do make excellent points, but i still think its all just wrong to kill people good or bad. there aren't any good people or bad people, there are just people misunderstood, or haven't had parents or people around them tell them what is good and what is bad, thats just what i think, you might disagree but that would be your opinion.



peace and much love

[LoveMore]

there aren't any good people or bad people, there are just people misunderstood, or haven't had parents or people around them tell them what is good and what is bad, WOW, hello, can of worms! Hello, victim mentality! With all due respect, I have a family member, who is not misunderstood, and was raised by loving, ethical parents in a nurturing environment, and STILL MURDERED someone. So, I'm going to disagree with you. BUT I will respect your opinion.

[shameless_heifer]

Do you attack everyone that doesn't hold your same opinion little foot, you sure get off on name calling, for a person of your age, but I suppose it's about mentailty as well , err..

What changes have you made in society, your all huff n puff, jumping everyones shit because? You think you have the world figured out, you think you could run everyone to your liking.. well run for president, make changes. Stop the name calling, your no good example of peace and brotherhood.

Your the bully, no one can have a life except the one you pick, get over yourself..now cut it out. Fair warning.
sh

[homeiswheretheloveis]

oh, lovemore sorry to hear that, maybe i shouldn't have said what i said. but thanks for respecting my opinion. but maybenext time i'll just stick to things that i know are definitely true, i mean some of what i said earlier is part true, and part not, but i made the mistake of putting down the wrong wording

[LoveMore]

oh, lovemore sorry to hear that, maybe i shouldn't have said what i said. but thanks for respecting my opinion. but maybenext time i'll just stick to things that i know are definitely true, i mean some of what i said earlier is part true, and part not, but i made the mistake of putting down the wrong wordingDon't worry about it, there is no way in Hell you'd know that. :) I just wanted to throw a wrench in your argument machine. <3

[homeiswheretheloveis]

ok, and thanks, i think i was kind of just talking and not thinking about what i was saying, or trying to say.








____________________


God gave rock n roll to you

-Argent



Give Peace a Chance


-John Lennon

[Littlefoot]

you do make excellent points, but i still think its all just wrong to kill people good or bad.

I agree and have said so on these Forums many times.


there aren't any good people or bad people, there are just people misunderstood, or haven't had parents or people around them tell them what is good and what is bad, thats just what i think, you might disagree but that would be your opinion.

peace and much love

All existence is blessed and all apparent evil is simply ignorance.

That doesn't mean that everything's okay. It does mean that it isn't
okay to do bad things to people because they have done bad things.

People who do bad things, or pay for bad things to be done, need to
be healed, not harmed further.

And it is quite okay to act to prevent people from doing bad things
if you can do that without becoming a criminal yourself.

Littlefoot

[Littlefoot]

Do you attack everyone that doesn't hold your same opinion little foot, you sure get off on name calling, for a person of your age, but I suppose it's about mentailty as well , err..

What changes have you made in society, your all huff n puff, jumping everyones shit because? You think you have the world figured out, you think you could run everyone to your liking.. well run for president, make changes. Stop the name calling, your no good example of peace and brotherhood.

Your the bully, no one can have a life except the one you pick, get over yourself..now cut it out. Fair warning.
sh

You have already made it quite clear that you hate me for expressing my honest
and educated opinion of America and Americans.

I am not going to give you an excuse to ban me by taking obvious bait like
this.

Anyone can take a look at your posts to me, and see all of the insults,
some of them outright lies, that you have directed at me.

You are abusing your position of authority.

I"d advise you to cease and desist. Fair warning.

Littlefoot

[Littlefoot]

Revisited

Do you attack everyone that doesn't hold your same opinion little foot, you sure get off on name calling, for a person of your age, but I suppose it's about mentailty as well , err..

What changes have you made in society, your all huff n puff, jumping everyones shit because? You think you have the world figured out, you think you could run everyone to your liking.. well run for president, make changes. Stop the name calling, your no good example of peace and brotherhood.

Your the bully, no one can have a life except the one you pick, get over yourself..now cut it out. Fair warning.
sh

You can do anything you want. I have not said otherwise. But I can express my
opinion of your actions. I should be able to.

What's "name calling"? A label that is un-flattering directed at you or
someone you like.

If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, the label is obviously erroneous
and shouldn't bother you. It will be obvious to any reasonable person
that it's not accurate.

We are supposed to have free speech in America, but I don't see it. Criticize
what America does at home and your parents will punish you. Criticize
America in the schools and they'll throw you out. Criticize America in
the workplace and you'll lose your job.

Criticize America in most public places, like bars and taverns, and you'll
get beaten up.

So let's try for a little honesty for a change.

In America you have free speech except that you can't criticize America.

Which means that you don't have free speech at all.

That's hypocrisy. People who practice hypocrisy are called "hypocrites".

And that would be "name calling" according to you.

I'd rather be a "name caller" than a hypocrite, any day.

----------

I can be harsh sometimes, too much so. But you aren't any better, sh.

Why don't we both try harder to be civil, eh?

We are both beloved children of God, and our existence is blessed.

Littlefoot

[newo]

You don't want to face reality so you try to shoot the messenger.You resort to flaming and name calling and accuse me of shooting the messenger?

This is quite typical of American psuedo-progressives who live like everyone else and pretend that they are enlightened and superior beings.LittlefootUnlike you I suppose, as you truly are an enlightened and superior being. Your hippier-than-thou attitude is what I called it: bitter cynicism.

[homeiswheretheloveis]

sorry to interrupt, but why can't we just all get along,i mean everyone has there own opinions, and i'm not taking sides, actually i'm just going to shut up, before i get some one pissed off.


peace and much love to all of you


___________________________

God Gave Rock N Roll to You

-Argent

Imagine all the people. Living life in peace

- John Lennon

[Littlefoot]

sorry to interrupt, but why can't we just all get along,i mean everyone has there own opinions, and i'm not taking sides, actually i'm just going to shut up, before i get some one pissed off.
...

I think the problem is very fundamental, and not limited to sh at all: We live in a global
society that is seriously fucked up: We are trashing the planet, constantly making
and facilitating warfare; there are hundreds of millions of people living in abject
poverty, with millions dying of starvation every year.

This society is obviously maintained by the active participation of all of its menbers.
What Corporation could exist without consumers, for example? Or workers? Or
investors? That's us.

Yet there are very few people who will take any responsibility at all for their
active participation in creating the world as at is, and they get very, very upset
when someone brings this reality to their attention.

They want to go on living as they are and to pretend that they have nothing
to do with it, that's it's all the fault of Evil Politicians and Evil Rich People
or The Devil or Nature (from a Darwinian perspective).

What most people mean when they say "why can't we all get along" is:
Why can't everyone agree with me?

That's not going to fix the world. There _is_ a basic conflict going on here.
Between people who believe that this is good system being mismanaged,
and people who have perceived that it is fatally flawed and must simply
be abandoned.

This is a GOOD conflict in the long run. It's a framework for learning and
growing.

Littlefoot

[shameless_heifer]

How'd I get to be the asshole.. " Not limited to sh.. WTF.. I certainly wasn't bothering you. I just tell my stories and help people heal themselves. My way has helped countless individuels and I give it freely without belittleing them or calling them names. That is my problem with you Little Foot. It's not your message, it's the delivery, your method sucks and turns off more folks then it turns on.

I'm a moderator and it IS MY place to keep things civil. No one likes high holies that think they are better or smarter then everyone else to the point you have to bully people around to make your point.

I can't even get through your posts bc they reak of vemon and are blaming every human being for what happens in congress, and you right in the middle with your hands in the pie

You include everyone but yourself.. you refuse to answer the question, if you live in the USA, and why you stay if you hate us and it so bad. AND most important, DO YOU yourself live like you preach???? Your attacking the very ones that do care and DO try and make a difference. You have dis'ed me and you know nothing about me and what I bring to the table.. Things you could NEVER understand bc of your gender and your male ego oriented attitude.

Answer this Little Foot. Are you living like you demand everyone else to live, do you vote, do you live entirely off the land, do you shop, do you buy toilet paper, or toothpaste..soap? Are you without sin my friend.

No one is going to sit through a berage of insluts/hatered to hear your message of peace and love. Your mannerisums tell a different story about you. Do you think cussing people out or blaming them for the worlds miseries is going to endear you to them and draw out their hearts.. well fuck no, it's gonna make them turn and walk away. They will not hear the Divine Wisdom that falls from your mouth like rosepetals gentely embracing their ears, They will hear, and see, if you are face to face, where you are really coming from, and that is a place of darkness and discontentment. Not very Zin of you.

Tell me little foot, where is your love, where is your brotherhood. You have not earned a right to call us down. You only talk the talk to people that are walking the walk. We are trying to get back to the garden and here you come screaming and cussing at us to get back to the garden.

If you really want to teach people how to live outside the system, startup a class and teach, maybe you have..but if I were you, I would not cuss my students out for not being as educated as you are, an athority on the subject of being HUMAN . I would educate them and cuss myself if they did not learn, it would mean I was a POOR TEACHER/EXAMPLE. I practice what I preach brother, do you?!?

You call me down becaues me n mine have our dream, that we worked damned hard to get and work damned hard to cultivate and produce enough food to support us and 11 other people we share our land with. Who do you help besides yourself. What do you bring to the table beside your 'burn down the cities' message and your insults.

If I say something that you don't agree with you call me an asshole, even if it's about actuall events that took place in my life. You just shit on the hippie creed by your insults, making yourself look uncool by your manner.

The system is not fataly flawed, it's the operators that are flawed. Which culture would you suggest for all peoples to adhere to, yours..lol.. most people are decent folk, who are just trying to stay afloat till they die.

They want peace in their lives too. People are GOOD, most of them, my parents were good, honest, loving and giving people and taught/lived a happy life bc of the LOVE they showed to all. Most of the people I have met in my lifetime are decent folk, that love and harm none. I have met a few darknatured ones in my travels too, but the good in people outweighs the bad. IMHO.

Like I said before, over n over again.. it's not the message itself, it's the hostile way you present it. Your presentation sucks. You do more harm, then good.

There is NO conflict with the IDEALISUM of what you are saying LF.. I am not saying we don't need change, I agree, change is needed desperatly, but your not going to get any respect, untill you yourself can be civil. It starts in your own self. When you point a finger at someone, you are pointing three fingers back at your self. You are screaming out hate, try a little love. We can't get past the insults to hear whatever the message is you are trying to convey.

Try putting people at ease about your thoughts, we are peaceseekers ourselves, and don't appericiate your personal slurs, we don't have to listen to them either. There are guidelines in this site and you did agree to follow them when you signed up. When you come in here and disrespect the other members, including myself, you are breaking the contract you signed.

It's not what you are saying Litle Foot, we all agree on what the message is, but the way you say it, you my friend did not invet it, you are just ranting at the ones that are doing or at least making efforts in that direction..

Would you go into a hippie commune and start cussing the hippies telling them to go live in communes. You contradict yourself just by being on a computer, using up all that electricity and screaming at us for using/being corporate.

sh

[Kierkegaard]

Thank you Littlefoot for one of the most positive reads in a long time. I'm not being sarcastic, only glad that there are people who still bother trying to enlighten people about the state of the world.

What it all boils down to is very simple. In the western world (especially) we are way past the point of making things right on a global scope in any way that would not radically alter they way we live our lives. The only question is: are we prepared to do that or not?

I'll admit that I neither have the balls nor the intellect to go all out. It is the shittiest kind of excuse, I know, so when the third world has finally had enough I certainly deserve whatever's coming.

[Littlefoot]

Thank you Littlefoot for one of the most positive reads in a long time. I'm not being sarcastic, only glad that there are people who still bother trying to enlighten people about the state of the world.

What it all boils down to is very simple. In the western world (especially) we are way past the point of making things right on a global scope in any way that would not radically alter they way we live our lives. The only question is: are we prepared to do that or not?

I'll admit that I neither have the balls nor the intellect to go all out. It is the shittiest kind of excuse, I know, so when the third world has finally had enough I certainly deserve whatever's coming.

I think that you do have the balls and the intellect. It's a matter of knowing how
to proceed. You could try this approach:

Start learning, as a hobby, the skills needed to live directly from the land.
Identifying wild edible and fiber and medicinal plants; no-till gardening and
saving seeds and preseving food (drying and "root-cellaring"); spinning thread
and weaving cloth; generating woodgas; making cordage and weaving baskets;
making soap....

This will attract you to like-minded people, and vice-versa. When you have
a group of people, an informal back-to-the-land club, start looking around
for some land in the country where you can really develop your skills. There
is a lot of very cheap land in the mountains. (One of the things you'll have
to study up on is water supplies. Don't ever buy any land unless you are
sure that you can develop a water supply!)

By then, you'll be able to live with almost no income. The property taxes
on "junk land" are minimal. You can can acquire it with no down payment
and monthly payments of a few hundred dollars on 20-40 acres. Buying
land adjacent to a large tract of federal or state or corporate land is highly
advisable. And make sure it's in an area that's forested. Wood is an
invaluable resource.

You get the drift. And thanks,

Littlefoot

"The greatest fine art of the future will be the making of a
comfortable living from a small piece of land."

-- Abraham Lincoln

[earthmother]

But in order to buy land you must have money and you get money by working within the system, being a part of it, and supporting it. Then you have to pay taxes and so you must still be beholden to the system. Oh yea, and, I've already done all of what you suggested a long time ago and continually practice my knowledge. But I'm still a bitch... Maybe I'm really a pseudo-bitch!

[Littlefoot]

(post deleted -- I shouldn't respond to Earthmother's baiting - it's a waste of
time)

[shameless_heifer]

Patsy, are you baiting LF with the truth again.

Tax time comes around every yr, pay it or lose what you got. It's a bitch but it's gotta be thata way for now, untill LF creates a new wonderful world to live in under his rule.

The only thing we'll need is ear plugs and a tranquilizer gun. You can use it on me Patsy if I lose my ear plugs and I will promise to do the same for you.

Now bow down to LF and kiss his ring. Wait, me first!!

ROFLMAF!!!!

[shameless_heifer]

Me thinks that LF has brought in a ringer to agree with him... hahahahaahahahaaa, kinda like an invisable friend a child makes up when they have no one to play with. His alter ego.. hahahaahahahahahaaaaaaaaa.

[shameless_heifer]

sorry, I couldn't help it, heifers have a sence of humor too ya know.

[killuminati]

you'll have to wait till 2060

[Littlefoot]

But in order to buy land you must have money and you get money by working within the system, being a part of it, and supporting it. Then you have to pay taxes and so you must still be beholden to the system. Oh yea, and, I've already done all of what you suggested a long time ago and continually practice my knowledge.


Okay, since your mind seems to be running on half-power again, I'll spell it out for
you.

It takes several years to develop the necesary skills to live self-sufficiently on the
land. In the real world, one takes things a step at a time.

When the community has progressed to the point where they can live without
any material support from this civilization, they can then simply fade away
into the forest.

I am sure that Kierkegaard has the sense to figure this out for himself. That's
why I didn't bother stating the obvious.

But I don't mind giving you a hand when you need it.

But I'm still a bitch... Maybe I'm really a pseudo-bitch!

Oh no. You're the real thing.

Littlefoot

[Kierkegaard]

Me thinks that LF has brought in a ringer to agree with him. As I said, I was glad (and very surprised), to find and read what LF had posted here. I have no interest in joining your personal war on each other since I don't have time to dig deep enough into the archives and find out if it really is about something else.

I've always had respect for educated people who are capable of putting forward ideas clearly in writing. There is also a world of difference between being passionate and emotional about what you are saying and building the hypothesis around the emotion.

Most humanistically inclined persons I know that show any kind of historical awareness would agree with what LF is saying. Still, very few seem to feel they are able to do something about all this. What LF seems to argue: 'that, even given the good intentions, we are simply too comfortable with the current state of affairs' is something that every single one of us should give some serious thought. Let's not kid ourselves.

[Littlefoot]

As I said, I was glad (and very surprised), to find and read what LF had posted here. I have no interest in joining your personal war on each other since I don't have time to dig deep enough into the archives and find out if it really is about something else.



I will have to admit that I have to some large degree brought this on myself. I can
be rather harsh at times. I need to keep in mind that most people don't have
my education and experience. I am _trying_ to be kinder and more patient and
understanding, but this sort of bitchy harassment doesn't make it easy.


I've always had respect for educated people who are capable of putting forward ideas clearly in writing. There is also a world of difference between being passionate and emotional about what you are saying and building the hypothesis around the emotion.

Most humanistically inclined persons I know that show any kind of historical awareness would agree with what LF is saying. Still, very few seem to feel they are able to do something about all this. What LF seems to argue: 'that, even given the good intentions, we are simply too comfortable with the current state of affairs' is something that every single one of us should give some serious thought. Let's not kid ourselves.

I can sure see why you chose that alias. Or it chose you.

LIttlefoot

[shameless_heifer]

On one has disagreed to what LF message was, It was his method of coveyence and his attack on every one that had an opinion, or mentioned something that happened to them in the past.

It's disrespecting other member including the mods, guide line violation.

We all want things to change, but not everyone is in a position to drop out of society. We all procrastinate, we all dream the dream. Some are doing their best to live as far off the grid as they can. These are the ones that were under attack by little foot, including, but no limited to myself.

I, nor did the rest of us have any problem with LF untill he started trying to shove his view point down everyone throat in every foeum, calling names and shining a bad light on the ones that walk the walk, and live an honest and helpful life. You can put information out there without having to disrespect someone else. You will not make many friends or get peoples attention calling the women bitches and the men assholes while your calling it love and brotherhood or peacefull.

LF, as you can plainly see has again, disrespected us by claiming we are not as inteligent/experienced as he is. He is full of himself.

He only converses with people who agree with him, like he's doing with you. But still he has to get his digs in, as in stating we were less inteligent then he. Get the picture, your only inteligent to him bc you agree and praised him.. Try saying something he is not in control of.

I'm tired of his game and so is everyone else. I do not know what his problem is, but he is not going to continue to harrass the other members. It's called flaming and is against the guidelines.

sh

[Littlefoot]

shameless_heifer wrote:

"'m tired of his game and so is everyone else. I do not know what his problem is, but he is not going to continue to harrass the other members. It's called flaming and is against the guidelines."

Actually, it's you and Earthmother that have been doing the flaming. I have shown remarkable
restraint.

I have every scrap of these threads, with all posts except ours deleted, in a zipped file, with
the URLs edited in, ready to be sent to the other moderators, webmaster, etc. as an HTML
attachment. I have their email addresses.

I sort of hope you try to ban me. It will probably be the last we'll see of you.

You have completely lost your perspective.

Littlefoot

[earthmother]

Poor mr littlefoot, you appear to be obsessed. You simply do not understand for all your great "intelligence". I can spot those who do this type of thing on purpose, but you seem to actually believe what you say. That is extremely sad. To Kierkegaard, Mr Littlefoot has made a very bad habit of attacking those who are intelligent and actually have some real things to say regularly. He cannot stand the thought that anyone else could know all the wonderful things he does. He refuses to tell anyone what the point is to his ranting. He won't give anyone any REAL knowledge of HOW to go about accomplishing that which he feels he is the ONLY one here who could possibly have accomplished. His apparent goal is only to BRAG about HIMSELF and not really help anyone.

I get pictures in my mind while conversing at length with someone, and all I can see is someone glaring into his computer, all pumped up on himself, chest puffed out and tail up like a cocky rooster.

Littlefoot, you have again ruined another thread. Getting to be a habit? Maybe what you are mistaking for "bitches" is really the "thread police!" Go ahead and show whoever you like all this nonsense. They will laugh at you before you are banned... Do you want that? I think all these threads with Littlefoot running amok may as well be closed. He's like a bull in a china shop...

[homeiswheretheloveis]

pardon me if i seem stupid:& , but i'm trying to figure out why we need warfare, to live in this economy, maybe i shouldn't even try and argue with that one, but just try and accept it i guess :P

[Littlefoot]

pardon me if i seem stupid:& , but i'm trying to figure out why we need warfare, to live in this economy, maybe i shouldn't even try and argue with that one, but just try and accept it i guess :P

Complex subject, but here's a short course:

Because we have hundreds of millions of people who want more and more and
more material stuff. Without trashing _their_ environment_ . More stuff than
they could ever have if they had to do all the work involved.

Resources are used up, so new ones have to be acquired. Markets are saturated
so new ones have to be acquired. Cheap labor pools are exhausted and new ones
have to be found.

The corporations, large and small, have to constantly grow because if they didn't
then everyone would be stuck where they were until someone above them died
or retired.

Enormous numbers of Americans buy stocks and bonds, wanting large
amounts of unearned income. Income isn't created until someone turns
natural resources into trade goods and sells those trade goods to someone.
So the corporations have to grow to fulfill that demand, too.

So we are trying to make the Middle East over in our own image. While
claiming that this is what they are trying to do to us....It's just neo-colonialism.

What I'm pointing out here, is that this economy, which is extremely materialisitc,
has always needed to expand. Unfortunately, people live everywhere on the
planet worth living and they rarely just offer to turn their lives and their lands
over to us. That means warfare. That's what war is about: Imposing your will
on others. It's not that most people want warfare, it's just that there is no way
around it with an economy like this one. The people of early America did not
sit down one day and decide that they were going to steal the rest of the continent
and wipe out most of the people who already lived there. They just gradually
expanded and met with resistance and sent in their soldiers to deal with it. It's
worse now, because we are much more materialistic than we were back then.

Do you know what the 'Native Americans' who resisted the theft of their lands
and the destruction of their cultures were called back then? "Terrorists". Sound
familiar? (What I've listed above are various factors that contribute to the
need for expansion on many levels.)

Hope that helps,

LIttlefoot

[earthmother]

I thought they were referred to as "savages"...

homeiswheretheloveis,
War is one of those things that is just like dominoes. One falls and then the rest follow. War is something that's nearly impossible to escape because it is everywhere. If OTHER people were not fighting each other, if EVERYONE actually had the goal of getting along, there would still be some evil person who would want to come along and take by force what is not his. There is no apparent beginning (who started this?) and no apparent end. THAT is why it cannot be escaped. Because there will ALWAYS be some guy who wants to fight and take for himself. They'll FORCE you to fight back or lose everything. So there is no end. As long as there is human greed and human ego, there is gonna be war.

[homeiswheretheloveis]

I thought they were referred to as "savages"...

homeiswheretheloveis,
War is one of those things that is just like dominoes. One falls and then the rest follow. War is something that's nearly impossible to escape because it is everywhere. If OTHER people were not fighting each other, if EVERYONE actually had the goal of getting along, there would still be some evil person who would want to come along and take by force what is not his. There is no apparent beginning (who started this?) and no apparent end. THAT is why it cannot be escaped. Because there will ALWAYS be some guy who wants to fight and take for himself. They'll FORCE you to fight back or lose everything. So there is no end. As long as there is human greed and human ego, there is gonna be war.
I never thought of it that way, you make an excellent point earthmother, but if you think about it, its kind of stupid, i don't really think that they can force you to fight, but i can see how they can force you to lose everything if you don't fight back. in my opinion its all about choicing either to fight back against whoever this person might be, and either die, or win, but you can also choice not to fight, and try to escape that place of war, or stay and lose your stuff. I understand war is every were, and if you escape one, you enter another, i know what your saying. but what im asking is do we really need this kind of crap going on in our world?



_________________________

God Gave Rock N Roll to You

-Argent

Imagine all the people. Living life in Peace

-John Lennon

[earthmother]

Ultimately nobody can force you to fight for anything. But it has a way of sometimes boiling down to either fight or be run over and robbed by those who are still barbaric enough to believe in fighting. This works on all levels from personal on up to global. No, we do NOT need war!!! That is a choice SOMEONE makes (someone who may very well be insane), but once made it's pretty hard to escape. I look around at everyone who lives in my neck of the woods and see at least 90% of them wishing to find ways to get along and be happy. NOT looking for things to fight over. I assume this applies to other humans in other places. WAR is the thing which helps these insane control-freaks keep everyone scared and in control. It's the thing that gives them an EXCUSE for this or that.... But it ultimately keeps them in power, because it cultivates fear. A fear, by the way, that THEY suffer from immensely, or they wouldn't feel the need for their wars. It's a classic example of people who do not like to suffer alone, so they must make others lives miserable too. A soap opera mentality.... WITHOUT all that drama, we could very well have a very happy and peaceful existence.

[newo]

I understand war is every were, and if you escape one, you enter another, i know what your saying. but what im asking is do we really need this kind of crap going on in our world?No we don't, but not everyone agrees with you & me.
“All mankind has grown strong through eternal struggle and will only perish through eternal peace.” -Adolph Hitler.
During WWII Gandhi, though blaming Hitler for the war, still encouraged non-violent passive resistance and thus sadly lost a great deal of credibility. We’ve seen a lot of large & small Hitlers since then; Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, etc. Tyrants such as these only respect military strength and harbor nothing but contempt for pacifists. They must be dealt with forcibly or with the threat of force.

Perhaps war is proof that the human race is still immature as a species.

Don't abandon the anti-war movement though. It's necessary to help ensure that war is used as only a last resort.

[Littlefoot]

I understand war is every were, and if you escape one, you enter another, i know what your saying. but what im asking is do we really need this kind of crap going on in our world?

No we don't, but not everyone agrees with you & me.


We don't _need_ war in any basic way. It isn't built into our nature.

War stinks. It's ugly and it's wrong. It's a disease of our own making.



“All mankind has grown strong through eternal struggle and will only perish through eternal peace.” -Adolph Hitler.
During WWII Gandhi, though blaming Hitler for the war, still encouraged non-violent passive resistance and thus sadly lost a great deal of credibility. We’ve seen a lot of large & small Hitlers since then; Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, etc. Tyrants such as these only respect military strength and harbor nothing but contempt for pacifists. They must be dealt with forcibly or with the threat of force.

Perhaps war is proof that the human race is still immature as a species.

Don't abandon the anti-war movement though. It's necessary to help ensure that war is used as only a last resort.

We have a a greedy economy that needs to continually expand in order to be healthy.
As long as this is the case we are going to need warfare.

(The middle class of the world are a small minority, yet they consume most
of the world's resources.)

Doesn't matter how any member of our economy feels about it. Doesn't matter
how many flowers and beads they wear or how many protest signs they carry
or how many beautiful songs about peace they sing.

Taxes support the war machine. If it wasn't for the taxes paid by individuals
and corporations, there wouldn't be a war machine.

The corporations also make all the tools of war along with their more
ordinary products. Even the farmers provide the rations the soldiers
require.

When you pay federal taxes or buy whatever a corporation is selling,
you are supporting the war machine. You are voting for war.

There are no independent corporations. They are all dependent upon
one another. It is one vast machine. There are no small businesses
or charitable organizations or "hippy communes" that are not inter-
dependent with the corporations. The corporations are this
country.

Unpleasant truths. But they explain why the peace movement never
gets anywhere. Most people, in fact, don't want war. But this economy
has required war from day one and it has never changed in any essential
way. Except to become even more materialistic. Sometimes its hard
to see the forest for the trees. Especially when you don't want to.


Littlefoot

[homeiswheretheloveis]

We don't _need_ war in any basic way. It isn't built into our nature.

War stinks. It's ugly and it's wrong. It's a disease of our own making.



We have a a greedy economy that needs to continually expand in order to be healthy.
As long as this is the case we are going to need warfare.

(The middle class of the world are a small minority, yet they consume most
of the world's resources.)

Doesn't matter how any member of our economy feels about it. Doesn't matter
how many flowers and beads they wear or how many protest signs they carry
or how many beautiful songs about peace they sing.

Taxes support the war machine. If it wasn't for the taxes paid by individuals
and corporations, there wouldn't be a war machine.

The corporations also make all the tools of war along with their more
ordinary products. Even the farmers provide the rations the soldiers
require.

When you pay federal taxes or buy whatever a corporation is selling,
you are supporting the war machine. You are voting for war.

There are no independent corporations. They are all dependent upon
one another. It is one vast machine. There are no small businesses
or charitable organizations or "hippy communes" that are not inter-
dependent with the corporations. The corporations are this
country.

Unpleasant truths. But they explain why the peace movement never
gets anywhere. Most people, in fact, don't want war. But this economy
has required war from day one and it has never changed in any essential
way. Except to become even more materialistic. Sometimes its hard
to see the forest for the trees. Especially when you don't want to.


Littlefootyou make very good points. but i think its stupid how the taxes we pay, go to building things like that, they should go to much better things, like example animal shelter, and things like those. thats just what i believe.


_________________

Imagine all the people. Living life in peace

-John Lennon

[Littlefoot]

you make very good points. but i think its stupid how the taxes we pay, go to building things like that, they should go to much better things, like example animal shelter, and things like those. thats just what i believe.

...



Couldn't agree more. But as long as Americans expect to consume many times
what they produce, it's going to be that way. The thing is, almost nobody
understands how the system they are a part of works. In a truly equitable
economy, no one would be able to afford a car. Making and maintaining a
car and its share of the road and fuel infrastructure takes far more work than
any single human being is capable of doing. And that's just one element
of our supermaterialistic lifestyle.

No one means any harm. We were all raised to accept this lifestyle as
simply reality. It isn't. It's just one way that we can choose to live.

We can have a very good life without most of the stuff we now have to
buy or support with our taxes to keep this twisted economy going.

We can have a very good life without trashing the planet and making war
and exploiting poor people.

I think a lot of it has to do with the Darwinian Religion, which teaches us
that Nature is based upon violent competition for scarce resources.

We believe that Nature forces us to be this way. But that's not true.
The Darwinian paradigm is a theory. It is supported only by circumstantial
evidence that can be interpreted in other ways.

Nature is based upon loving cooperation. If there was any significant amount
of compettition in Nature, it would soon cease to exist. Just as every human
society, like this one, that's based on competition, soon ceases to exist.

Competition is just negative cooperation.

"What if they held a war and nobody came?" --Some Wise Hippy

LIttlefoot

[CPL Clegg]

Littlefoot, I understand your perspective, or at least I think I do. I want to know a lot more and I have a lot of questions. First off, are you a Native American/Indian? (I don't know what you, if you are, preferred to be called) I'm inferring that you are from your display name and your references of America being a stolen continent. Secondly, I noticed you say we are part of the problem and I want to know if you recognize yourself as part of the problem. I can't understand how you're not part of the problem if you have access to the Internet which would make you a consumer, unless you have a stolen computer, stolen WiFi, and some kind of renewable power source that doesn't depend on the economy. Do I have "blood on my hands" because I was born into American society or because I live off of the economy? I hope it's the latter. I'm not trying to attack your logic, I'm really just trying to understand it.

I'm also having difficulty understanding how living a sedentary lifestyle will help make the world a better place. I mean, maybe if enough people do it, there won't be such a materialistic demand and that may stop the need for war. But can that really happen? Millions of people would have to convert to that kind of lifestyle and I honestly don't see that happening. At least not in my lifetime, but that would be phenomenal.

And even if there was a mass transition to a communal lifestyle, wouldn't the government get pissed off? What if they decided to build a highway through a perfected commune? Then what?

I hope you can provide me with some further enlightenment that I can't seem to figure out for myself. I'm curious to know how you enlightened yourself; did you realize all of this on your own or did someone reveal it to you? Your posts have really affected my way of thinking, as I'm just really your typical, ignorant American teenager. I'm still a kid but I would like to change the world and I think I need to understand how this world works before I attempt anything. Thanks.

[homeiswheretheloveis]

Couldn't agree more. But as long as Americans expect to consume many times
what they produce, it's going to be that way. The thing is, almost nobody
understands how the system they are a part of works. In a truly equitable
economy, no one would be able to afford a car. Making and maintaining a
car and its share of the road and fuel infrastructure takes far more work than
any single human being is capable of doing. And that's just one element
of our supermaterialistic lifestyle.

No one means any harm. We were all raised to accept this lifestyle as
simply reality. It isn't. It's just one way that we can choose to live.

We can have a very good life without most of the stuff we now have to
buy or support with our taxes to keep this twisted economy going.

We can have a very good life without trashing the planet and making war
and exploiting poor people.

I think a lot of it has to do with the Darwinian Religion, which teaches us
that Nature is based upon violent competition for scarce resources.

We believe that Nature forces us to be this way. But that's not true.
The Darwinian paradigm is a theory. It is supported only by circumstantial
evidence that can be interpreted in other ways.

Nature is based upon loving cooperation. If there was any significant amount
of compettition in Nature, it would soon cease to exist. Just as every human
society, like this one, that's based on competition, soon ceases to exist.

Competition is just negative cooperation.

"What if they held a war and nobody came?" --Some Wise Hippy

LIttlefoot
i don't want to be rude, and i'm simply not saying what your saying is wrong, but i seemly can't see how a religion can be blamed for this...but my first question is, are you a religious person littlefoot ?, and second, what do you mean that religion teaches us that nature is based upon violent competition?, i'm not saying that your wrong about it, i'm just not understanding why it would teach that. but maybe i shouldn't say anything, until i research more on it. but i understand that some people have large ego's that they sometimes use to start fights,with people that don't always want to fight. well anyways i'm don't going to say anything else until i know more of the economy i live in.


peace and much love to all of you


___________________

Imagine all the people. Living life in peace.

-John Lennon

[90 paces west]

My dad, who's 49 and myself
Both agree as much as we try...
WE CAN'T REINVENT THE 60's!
People aren't the same.

And even if we try. It would be a cheap version of it.

Nothing like then....

[Littlefoot]

My dad, who's 49 and myself
Both agree as much as we try...
WE CAN'T REINVENT THE 60's!
People aren't the same.

And even if we try. It would be a cheap version of it.

Nothing like then....

We shouldn't try to reinvent the 60's. That was a cultural revolution
that failed. Big time.

We need to do much better than that. We need to walk our talk, which
very few of the Hippies did.

Yes, people are different now. There are a lot more people who fully
understand that this System is rotten from its very foundations.

That it is a failed socio-economic experiment.

They know that the so-called 'progressives' who are telling them that
everything would be just fine if only _they_ were put in charge, are
are completely deluded.

What we need is plan. And it has to based upon the simple fact that
this System will not allow anyone to withdraw from it. That's secession.
It's a federal offense of the highest order, close to, or equal to, treason.

So it has to be an underground movement. Like the underground railroad
that took the slaves to safety and freedom in the North, and the other
one that took the draft-dodgers to Canada.

If either organization had tried to do their work in public view, they wouldn't
have succeeded. If they hadn't taken great pains to conceal their work
from the American people, they wouldn't have succeeded.

P.S. I forgot to mention, for those who aren't aware of it, that this
underground movment already exists. It's happenning. It's just way
too small, no more than a few hundred communities, to my knowledge.
We need tens of thousands!


Littlefoot

[homeiswheretheloveis]

LF, i would like to know of this underground movement,thats if you know more about it, other then what you've already said.







_____________________

Imagine all the people. Living life in peace.

-John Lennon

[Littlefoot]

[QUOTE=homeiswheretheloveis]LF, i would like to know of this underground movement,thats if you know more about it, other then what you've already said.

I've visited several of the communities. They are simply "hardcore" hippy
communes that are invisible to mainstream society. Materially self-sufficient,
completely Earth-friendly, indefinitely sustainable. Very nice places indeed,
peaceful yet alive with creative energy. All the amenities.

They don't really have to work at being invisible to Americans. Their lifestyle
does it for them. As does the seemingly inbred arrogance of most Americans,
who think everyone in the world wants to live like them and can't imagine
anyone, especially fellow Americans, choosing to reject everything they
have.

After all it's The Greatest Country On Earth, Home of the Brave and Land of
the Free!

(puke)

As far as I know, they are all in the Rocky Mountains. But there's no
centralized authority, so that may not be true. Let's hope....

If you want to know more, your questions will have to be more specific.
Don't expect me to know everything.

LIttlefoot

P.S. One of my favorite Lennon tunes is "Girl" from Rubber Soul:

"Is there anybody going to listen to my story
All about the girl who came to stay.
She's the kind of girl you want so much it makes you sorry
Still you don't regret a single day.

Ah Girl......"

[mephime]

i dont really want involved in all of this, but i do have a quick question for those that want to "reinvent the 60's".

i'm curious as to why you want to do so? is it because of the beliefs, the drugs, the music, the fashion, a mixture of all of these things? the reason i ask is because the way i see it. there will always be ppl with those same beliefs (i think there are more today than there were then, just not as flamboyant about it), there will always be ppl searching for more. the anti-war sentiment certainly hasn't decreased, the drugs - well we have access to way more "hippie drugs" today than they did (lsd may not be legal anymore, but its certainly easy to get, and we have a much larger knowledge of other items of the sort), we will always have the music, and im sure you can dress however you want.

in time many more movements will pop up, with ppl who want peace, and who want more, but does it necessarily have to resemble the 60's? or can this new movement be something completely brand new? With a new thought pattern, different style of music at the head of it, and implementing a different fashion.

just curious what your take on it is. to sum it up do you want a movement to help fuel our purpose in life / be our purpose in life, or are you looking for something that resembles bell bottoms, long hair, peace signs, lsd, and tie-dyes?

[Littlefoot]

Mehime wrote: "In time many more movements will pop up, with ppl who want peace,
and who want more, but does it necessarily have to resemble the 60's? or can this new
movement be something completely brand new? With a new thought pattern, different
style of music at the head of it, and implementing a different fashion."

You are talking about very superficial things. Cosmetics. We need fundamental changes.

At the heart of the cultural revolution of the 60's was the clear perception that the System,
this system, was fundamentally flawed. That we needed to create a new and
different civilization.

Most of the hippies never got beyond the cosmetic stage, but many thousands of us
did. I spent about 9 years on a commune that became about 95% independent of
the mainstream economy. There were many others. We had essentially seceded
from America. We were walking our talk.

Our mistake was in believing that this was a free country. We should have known
that it was necessary to go underground, to camouflage our activities from the
Americans. Since we were stupid, America destroyed our movment. And it was
the Left as well as the Right that were behind that destruction. Both are heavily
invested in the status quo, fine words and noble ideals aside.

Now, there are people who have learned from our mistakes back then, and are trying
again.

But they aren't concerned with clothes or music or mere words. That's sub-cultural,
not counter-cultural.

Littlefoot

[stev90]

Well, back in 1999, a bunch of "hippies" thought they could re-vive the original Woodstock spirit of peace, love and music. Instead, what turned up was a demon of riots, rapes and generally cRappy noise, they called "music". :leaving:

If it's that kind of perverted brand of the 60's and of Woodstock to make a comeback, I sure hope it never does ever happen again.

http://images.salon.com/ent/music/feature/1999/07/27/woodstock/woodstock.gif

[Littlefoot]

Well, back in 1999, a bunch of "hippies" thought they could re-vive the original Woodstock spirit of peace, love and music. Instead, what turned up was a demon of riots, rapes and generally cRappy noise, they called "music". :leaving:

If it's that kind of perverted brand of the 60's and of Woodstock to make a comeback, I sure hope it never does ever happen again.

http://images.salon.com/ent/music/feature/1999/07/27/woodstock/woodstock.gif

I'm with you. But I don't see what the big deal about Woodstock was. It was just
a party with live music. Most of it corporate music using industrial equipment.
And they sure trashed that place.

I've been to a lot of parties with live music that were a lot more hippy than
that, where the people walked or bicycled or took public transportation to the location
and the instruments and voices were acoustic and there weren't any merchants there
trying to sell you stuff and the songs were mostly original.

Didn't have any problems with violence and drug abuse at those parties. Not that
we didn't smoke weed and drink wine, but there's a difference between use and
abuse, eh? And we didn't trash the land we partied on.

Littlefoot

[stev90]

Woodstock ’69 was all about peace, love, music and understanding. Woodstock ’99 was all about fighting, rape and confusion. “Break Stuff” and breaking stuff.

Damn kids and corporate greed. They didn't get it.

[Littlefoot]

Woodstock ’69 was all about peace, love, music and understanding. Woodstock ’99 was all about fighting, rape and confusion. “Break Stuff” and breaking stuff.

Damn kids and corporate greed. They didn't get it.

Apparently, you didn't even read my post.

Why then pretend you are responding to it?

The "hippies" who went to the original Woodstock were no more or less
involved with the corporations than the ones who went to the event that you
are referring to. Who do you think made and fueled those "hippy vans"
and "hippy busses"? And the roads they used? Who made the industrial
music equipment and the electricity that powered it? Who supplied the food
they ate and the clothes they wore and the camping equipment they used?

Littlefoot

[stev90]

Apparently, you didn't even read my post.

Why then pretend you are responding to it?

LittlefootI was responding to the topic of the thread in general, not specifically to your posts.

Why do you think, only your thoughts and opinions should matter?
You didn't even start this thread.

Don't get your panties in a twirl now.

[shameless_heifer]

As to The 60s ever making a comeback, well, history has been known to repete itself.. but I can hardly think that it could ever be the same. Hopefully we have come further in our evelution as human beings and would be better equipted to handle the issues that we face today, in unity.

Back then we didn't have the instant, mass communication networks, like Hip Forums and other venues of reaching the people. Music has always been a tool to convey the feeelings of the youth as they embrace adulthood, and their love or discontentment.

The music of today seems to have a savagery about it, like a hungery beast waiting to devour. It's not about love, peace and unity any more. To many senthietic drugs, or bathtub drugs that really screw up the brain and strip you of your soul.

I believe, you have to find YOUR peace, your own peace inside, then when you have found it, share it with others. Just smiling at someone is a start, even just a simple hello to your neighbor, extending a hand of friendship and comradery.

I do not believe The Burn Down the City attitude is the right plan of action..too vauge to be realistic. We cannot just blow it up and be rid of it.. there are too many details that are flawed. Like the people on life support that depend on the system to stay alive. or the old people/babies that cannot survive the elements. I would also wonder about the sanitation if there were not a clean water system in place.. even Well water has contaminates, Enebas,Protazoans,Giardia etc.

We all know there needs to be changes in the system of things, but to just go loco and ravage cicvilization is not the answer. There has to be agreement with everyone, everyone has to agree or there will be mass murders, suisides and death everywhere.

There's ones like myself that Believe there will be a mass consciousness change, where it will come to everyone at the same time and there will be a gentle peace that covers the earth like a blanket of love softly embracing us all. It will not come from War.. and burning down the city is warfare.

Becoming the walk and not the talk is a true changing point, with everyone at least agreeing the need for change is becoming the walk. We are heading in the right direction, the 60s did that, I doubt however that is will be the same occurence as the 60s, as we have evolved 40 some years now, I do hope we have made some progress from what little we knew back then. I hope we are smarter then we were in the 60s, I hope we taught our children what the 60s were about.

I don't believe it will ever be the same bc we are not the same. People change as they grow, to not grow is to be stagnat and unclear.

We should prepare ourselves before we rip it down. Prepare ourselves to survive if it does come tumbling down. If we smiply lay down, we will be envaded and put in camps, if you want to call that communal living.

I hope we learn from our past mistakes and are not doomed to repete them. We did some good and we did advance in many ways. At least we got the message out there. At least we did make an effort.

I hope also that the young people will make a difference and as we elvolve we will have the peace and unity we all seek. They are our future.

BTW, my ideas are not the totality of anything we all have our opinions and beliefs, yours may vary from mine and you are intitled to your opinion, and contributions as well. (just trying to get the thread back on topic).

Bright Blessings
sh

[mephime]

Littlefoot wrote
<<<You are talking about very superficial things. Cosmetics. We need fundamental changes.

At the heart of the cultural revolution of the 60's was the clear perception that the System,
this system, was fundamentally flawed. That we needed to create a new and
different civilization.

Most of the hippies never got beyond the cosmetic stage, but many thousands of us
did. I spent about 9 years on a commune that became about 95% independent of
the mainstream economy. There were many others. We had essentially seceded
from America. We were walking our talk.

Our mistake was in believing that this was a free country. We should have known
that it was necessary to go underground, to camouflage our activities from the
Americans. Since we were stupid, America destroyed our movment. And it was
the Left as well as the Right that were behind that destruction. Both are heavily
invested in the status quo, fine words and noble ideals aside.

Now, there are people who have learned from our mistakes back then, and are trying
again.

But they aren't concerned with clothes or music or mere words. That's sub-cultural,
not counter-cultural.

Littlefoot>>>>





I understand what your talking about Littlefoot, but my question is geared towards those that keep saying they want to bring the 60's back. I was trying to sum up "cultural change" in the broad definition of "hippie beliefs". My questions is - are they gearing for a replica of the 60's (again the cosmetics that go along with that generation, their beliefs, their music), or are they simply searching for any positive movement that implements the good parts of the ideals and beliefs of the 60's era hippie only in a whole new direction.

Again the reason i say this is because i dont feel any of the beliefs and idealism of that time has ever truly gone away, and for the most part it wasnt new at that time either, it was just much more open and accessible and preached (and lived) by more ppl. as someone pointed out earlier in this thread (the romantic period), while it may not be the hippie scene we speak of, cultural change, uprising, artistic expression, etc... was all part of it. generations and movements like this have gone on through history, and they will continue to happen again, so i ask are they wanting the next movement to begin, or are they gearing towards the cosmetic aspects of the hippie movement?

would everyone be content with a movement that is rising up against a system they disagree with, preaching out against the war, preaching acceptance, if say, at the head of this movement it was fueled by rap music? if their style of choice for this movement was baggy jeans and long white tee's with fitted hats. lsd wasnt the drug of choice - instead alcohol, cocaine, and blunts? so many ppl fixate on the 60's, so what is it that really does it for everyone? the style or the substance?

im not trying to put down want anyone wants, but ive seen this time and time again over the years. before i got to high school, i played the role 100% of a hippie, i did the drugs, preached the ideas, wore the fashion, had dreadlocks, as did many of my friends. got older around the time i became a sophomore in high school, i cut my hair, all my clothes were expensive preppy clothes from the cool stores in the mall, real big into playing sports. didnt look the role at all anymore, still listened to the music, still did the drugs, and had the beliefs, but i didn't look the role anymore. i was still friends with my old friends but i was closer to my new friends as i was now mr. popular, to sum it up. my popular friends and i helped out with charities, donated our time to those in need, planted trees on earth day, etc.. now it might have been all for show with them and to look better for colleges, but what did my old hippie friends do? nothing, they still preached the same stuff attended rallies, and slogans on t-shirts, but they gave nothing of themselves to make anything better.

even today, im almost done with med school, i drive a mercedes, i wear name brands, but i still have the same beliefs as i did then, im still the same me, i dont however consider myself a hippie (i just happen to be into a lot of things hippies are into), and if you saw me you wouldnt think of me as being a hippie either. i do however donate much of my FREE TIME to charities and humanitarian efforts, ive participated in "doctors without borders" for quite same time, went to N.O. to help after Katrina, registered thousands of ppl to vote, driven ppl to polling places in the past, i do my best to make the world better in other words. however when i go to shows, and festivals, and gatherings, and see friends and general ppl there that fit the mould and consider themselves hippies and want to relive the past and talk about going to anti war rallies, and the likes. they preach to their friends, etc... but their not doing anything else, it appears to me like most (not all) are style over substance.

damn, sorry this went on so long, and im really not trying to generalize ppl, im speaking from what ive seen tho, and im curious as to the take that others have on it.

[stev90]

damn, sorry this went on so long, and im really not trying to generalize ppl, im speaking from what ive seen tho, and im curious as to the take that others have on it.Hey mephime, I can relate.
In my book, the 60's revolution was rejecting parts of the establishment that one didn't like or didn't work and accepting, taking/modifying those parts that one liked or worked.

I pity the poor bastard that lived all his life in a "hippie" commune with nothing to show, but pieces of a broken idealism, but have the most respect for the "hippie" who attended Woodstock '69, had a great time, moved on, got his college education, and built a solid future for his own family, yet never lost and lived the idealism of the 60's.

One was dumb enough to get stuck in the idealism, the other was bright and smart enough to know that idealism without hard work, is just another form of wishful thinking and self-deception.

[earthmother]

The best of all worlds is the person who accomplished all that and STILL continued on as a hippy

[crankyelbow]

I pity the poor bastard that lived all his life in a "hippie" commune with nothing to show, but pieces of a broken idealism, but have the most respect for the "hippie" who attended Woodstock '69, had a great time, moved on, got his college education, and built a solid future for his own family, yet never lost and lived the idealism of the 60's.

One was dumb enough to get stuck in the idealism, the other was bright and smart enough to know that idealism without hard work, is just another form of wishful thinking and self-deception.The point of a commune is not to get more possessions... a commune surviving from back then is an example of a way of life, one they wish to live. Thats a major success for anyone... possesions aren't the path to happiness...

[earthmother]

The point of a commune is not to get more possessions... a commune surviving from back then is an example of a way of life, one they wish to live. Thats a major success for anyone... possesions aren't the path to happiness...Thank You. Best of all to be someone who is ultimately HAPPY. Communal life can be THE goal, rather than school and money. And in order for a commune to work well, the right ideals must be there and shared by everyone.

And generally those who have tried or still do live a communal life are doing it as an ALTERNATIVE to the 9-to-5-go-to-college-drive-a-new-hybrid-car-and make-a-bunch-of-money crowd...

[earthmother]

.....I pity the poor bastard that lived all his life in a "hippie" commune with nothing to show, but pieces of a broken idealism, but have the most respect for the "hippie" who attended Woodstock '69, had a great time, moved on, got his college education, and built a solid future for his own family, yet never lost and lived the idealism of the 60's.

One was dumb enough to get stuck in the idealism, the other was bright and smart enough to know that idealism without hard work, is just another form of wishful thinking and self-deception.And who was this theoretical hippie supposed to be impressing? Perhaps the happiest of all is the one who has NOTHING at all but the knowledge that he has lived as much a part of earth and love as possible. One cannot make a go of communal life without HARD WORK. It is hard enough to simply get along well with a group of others on a daily basis. To say nothing of the actual physical work involved in making the commune thrive.

Goals of college and money-wealth and all the trappings can be seen as superficial, like someone wearing lots of makeup. But that's what some folks DO. And SOME folks would disrespect someone who lived THAT lifestyle. I'm not sure it's possible to LIVE that lifestyle and retain the "hippie ideals"... Part of "hippie ideals" is to be environmentally friendly and not buy so much into the capitolist ideologies (the system)...

[mephime]

<<<
I'm not sure it's possible to LIVE that lifestyle and retain the "hippie ideals"... Part of "hippie ideals" is to be environmentally friendly and not buy so much into the capitolist ideologies (the system)...




so you mean to tell me that someone who goes and gets the education and the background to bring their ideas to the mainstream and live the life they choose can't be following "hippie ideals"? in order to properly follow "hippie ideals", you have to seclude yourself from society, basically totalling alienating yourself from the rest of the world and being able to live your live with total independence of the outside world is the only way to maintain "hippie values"? so what exactly were hippies protesting for back in the 60's, if they were just going to completely dissociate themselves from everyone else?

not trying to be a smart ass, it just seems like your saying anyone who goes to college and becomes successful must not be following hippie ideals, and if this is the case - what is a hippie then? someone that completely drops out of society to live their own independent lifestyle? then why is there a hippie forum on the internet? please let me know if im understanding you correctly or not.

[stev90]

Perhaps the happiest of all is the one who has NOTHING ...
Really?
Then, why not get rid even of your personal computer.
Why even bother posting on this website, if nothing and having no possessions will make one the happiest of all? :)

I haven't found too many homeless people expound on the virtues of homelessness, pennilessness, and virtually living on the street, exposed to crime and the elements and whose possessions consists of nothing more than a few odd belongings on a shopping cart.

Happy is the man who is smart or wise enough to use his natural talent and ability to rise beyond barely surviving on a subsistence level and perhaps, even to be able to use his wealth and talent to help other people, including caring for the environment.

[CPL Clegg]

Really?
Then, why not get rid even of your personal computer.
Why even bother posting on this website, if nothing and having no possessions will make one the happiest of all? :)
I think the reason they use the internet is to open peoples' eyes. How else is anyone else going to adapt a simple life unless they learn about it first? I only realized recently that material possesions do not make you happy, but I'm glad I did realize this before I'm on my own in this world.

Littlefoot, I just don't understand how there are still existing communal societes in the United States and are independent from the economy. How do they avoid property taxes?

[mephime]

<<<I just don't understand how there are still existing communal societes in the United States and are independent from the economy. How do they avoid property taxes?



they are definately still around not saying 100% indie, but close to it. as far as the property taxes, i dont think their all staying away for paying taxes their just located in places that are far out of the way and on junk land where the property taxes are basically nothing and in some cases nothing. i'd imagine some even operate under tax exempt status.

[MushroomDreams]

http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/600me6701.jpg
(picture taken in '67)

Time moves on: all of life is in constant motion. That is the nature of existence.



However.. the Burning Man Festival is the closest thing that I’ve seen to a Love In since 1967.

[stev90]

...
I I only realized recently that material possesions do not make you happy, but I'm glad I did realize this before I'm on my own in this world.


Absolutely! Material possessions alone do not make a person happy. In fact, happiness is found within, and not in the external attachments alone.

However, material possessions allow us to make choices. Hopefully, allowing us to make better, more enlightened decisions in how to lead our lives, be more productive, care for the world, etc.

For example, if it were not for a material possession such as this personal computer, how else could I have found this wonderful website. :)

[CPL Clegg]

Absolutely! Material possessions alone do not make a person happy. In fact, happiness is found within, and not in the external attachments alone.

However, material possessions allow us to make choices. Hopefully, allowing us to make better, more enlightened decisions in how to lead our lives, be more productive, care for the world, etc.

For example, if it were not for a material possession such as this personal computer, how else could I have found this wonderful website. :)True that...the only material possesions I could never give up is my guitar and probably my ipod.

[===dreamer===]

it sounds a lot like lots of the people here are younger than could have lived in the late 60s and early 70s (like me).I think the most important thing is the fact that people are asking that question.as long as people want it the spirit of the 60s is still around.all we need to do is get moving...

[Raza]

im 15 live in NY i hope the 60's does make a comeback im actually trying to get something together evrytone these days is so fucking depersonalized and technocracy has taken over. if u take a look around most of the people look the same and are all arrogant and areny really open. i mean we shudnt go against those who went against authority shud wee?