BlackWater

[gardener]

Are these the people you wish to support? They make more than three times what our soldiers do, they escalate violence, they have no accountability. Condi Rice and company should feel secure operating under the laws our soldiers operate under.

http://act.truemajorityaction.org/t/50/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=1194

[Mellow Yellow]

Those guys scare me, buncha bible thumpin' mercenaries for the religious right, makes me wonder if one of the reasons we're in Iraq is to deplete the US military so Blackwater can take over the military functions of our country. They illegally kill a number of Iraqis, yet somehow there's no accountability, no one goes to jail, what's up with that?

[gardener]

Those guys scare me, buncha bible thumpin' mercenaries for the religious right, makes me wonder if one of the reasons we're in Iraq is to deplete the US military so Blackwater can take over the military functions of our country. They illegally kill a number of Iraqis, yet somehow there's no accountability, no one goes to jail, what's up with that?I am not sure how much they are thumping their bibles. They are certainly mercenaries for the current administration. And their presence in Iraq scares me more than most things at the moment. The fact that the American public buys into the press that even though these hired guns earn three times the going salary of our military, they are necessary for the war effort. Think about the savings if we cancelled their contract. Think about the fact that if they were no longer there, the only ones with guns on our side would be following the laws and military guidelines of the US, not some vague outline in a contract that is probably top secret.

I remember the reports they were used in Lousiana during the Katrina crisis and the number of accounted for deaths of unarmed citizens. I don't want them deployed in my town, do you?

If we allow them to be used in Iraq with impunity, what's their next step? Or have they already taken it?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill

When asked what authority they were operating under, one guy said, "We're on contract with the Department of Homeland Security." Then, pointing to one of his comrades, he said, "He was even deputized by the governor of the state of Louisiana. We can make arrests and use lethal force if we deem it necessary."
Ask todays crop of candidates where they stand on Blackwater. Where is Hillary on the issue, where is Obama...we have a new SS in power. I am afraid, very afraid.

[gardener]

One thing that should never be privatized is the military and police of a free nation! It will only lead to abuse and corruption.

Those that pay their salaries call the shots. And even when the taxpayer actually pays the bill, if it's a contract through a department or sub contractor through a federal department...how many years will it take the taxpayer to find out who was actually calling the shots? By that time they are out of office or dead. Let's not let the mistakes of the 3rd Reich happen again under the guise of democracy and security.

I personnally will not be a pawn for indecency or imorality. I'd rather pay more for a force that is accountable to the people of the nation that pays it's check. And I am willing to stop all payments to make it end. Even if that means we didn't win the big game. I don't think that says less about us, it says we are responsible.

[gardener]

You support them by remaining quiet on the issue, much as the German people allowed the SS to gain control and terrorize the world.

[Mellow Yellow]

You don't hear a whole lot in the news about these guys, but you're right, privatization of the military is a bad idea, because accountability becomes questionable, and security goes to the highest bidder.

And sure, one can argue that the tax payers pay their salaries (all 450k per employee), but evidently we have no say over how the money's spent (isn't that what they call taxation without representation?).

It might be far fetched to describe them as bible thumpers, true, but they effectively work for the religious right, and it may not be too far fetched to imagine a holy war, in which they are on the side of the religious right.

[wackyiraqi]

Those guys scare me, buncha bible thumpin' mercenaries for the religious rightShould be noted that military privatization was expanded through Clinton's tenure. Eric Prince saw the financial opportunity in this expansion and formed Blackwater in 1997. In addition to Clinton giving lucrative no bid contracts to Haliburton, he also used companies such as DynCorp in the Balkans and Kosovo. Remember the scadal in 1999 in which DynCorp empoyees were involved in a sex slavery and forced prostitution ring that involved children? Everything does not have to be a partisan issue you know.

[shaggie]

.

[Coors Light]

And sure, one can argue that the tax payers pay their salaries (all 450k per employee), but evidently we have no say over how the money's spent (isn't that what they call taxation without representation?).
It has nothing to do with representation. Its taxation without congressional oversight as to where the money goes. Our congress is too busy making sure baseball is drug free.

[gshdgns]

Should be noted that military privatization was expanded through Clinton's tenure. Eric Prince saw the financial opportunity in this expansion and formed Blackwater in 1997. In addition to Clinton giving lucrative no bid contracts to Haliburton, he also used companies such as DynCorp in the Balkans and Kosovo. Remember the scadal in 1999 in which DynCorp empoyees were involved in a sex slavery and forced prostitution ring that involved children? Everything does not have to be a partisan issue you know.All true Wacky, no one in this thread mentioned Dems or Repub. just the current admin. and congress who need to act now to stop mercenary military policies.
(edit-I do see where the religious right is mentioned, but I do not think they have a thing to do with Blackwater, other than blindly believing anything Bush says)

[Mellow Yellow]

All true Wacky, no one in this thread mentioned Dems or Repub. just the current admin. and congress who need to act now to stop mercenary military policies.
Thank you, I didn't mean to imply that Blackwater was a partisan organisation.

I do see where the religious right is mentioned, but I do not think they have a thing to do with Blackwater, other than blindly believing anything Bush says
Agreed, and perhaps this is a stretch, but given that Bush and co use the religious right to promote their agenda, it's possible that religion could be used as a tool to promote a holy war. Maybe I should give the mercenaries in Blackwater more credit, their god is money.

[gardener]

Erik Prince head of Blackwater has ties to the religious right more than just blindly believing in Bush.

Prince serves as Vice President of the Edgar and Elsa Prince Foundation which gives money to organizations of the Christian right. Salon reports that "between July 2003 and July 2006, the foundation gave at least $670,000 to the Family Research Council and $531,000 to Focus on the Family"[13] headed by James Dobson. He also serves as a board member of Christian Freedom International, a non-profit group with a mission of helping "Christians who are persecuted for their faith in Jesus Christ."

[ExposeTheTruth]

www.blackwaterwatch.com (http://www.blackwaterwatch.com/)

Their loyalty lies with not one single nation, but instead with the global elite. Those who wish to abolish national soveigrnty in favor of one global governing body. Their job is to ensure that this agenda goes forward because their masters know the "regular" soldiers would never intentionally betray the Bill of Rights, Constitution, and international law. That's what Blackwater is for.

[gardener]

I think I am actually more scared concerning their existence and prosperity than I am with the war in the middle east. They are too close to the SS for me, and I vowed growing up I would never let what happened under Germany happen again if I had any power.

I can almost see them goose stepping in their black uniforms with their red bear claws. What next junior divisions so the kids can be indocrinated.

Privatized, interesting term. Meaning not public. Owned or purchased by individuals. Was the SS privatized...I wonder.

[Ørnulf Freiberg]

Yes, they are in deed a bunch of triggerhappy maniacs. The shouldnt be in Iraq at all.

[ExposeTheTruth]

They shouldn't exist at all.

[gardener]

They shouldn't exist at all.I agree. Under the Patriot Act civil activist groups can exist. Why should a mercenary privately owned group be allowed to wield this sort of power. They are armed and they are under no societal oversight. They should not exist. Their existence is more lethal than smoking.

If militias can not exist why should a private, publically traded company be allowed to provide armed troops?

[Mellow Yellow]

The existence of Blackwater sets an alarming precedent. Any organization that wields deadly force requires governmental oversight, with criminal consequences for mistakes. Let's hope this latest scandal in Iraq serves as a wakeup call. Of course, now the message to the global community is "they were only Iraqis". Way to go America, no wonder they wanna kill us.

[wackyiraqi]

Of course, now the message to the global community is "they were only Iraqis". Way to go America, no wonder they wanna kill us.When, where, and who spoke this message?

[Mellow Yellow]

No one spoke this message, but the actions (or I should say inaction) of our (US) government implied it. If Blackwater made a mistake like that in America, whoever was responsible would go to prison, but somehow their actions fall outside the jurisdiction of criminal law in the US and Iraq, so now it looks like they'll just get a slap on the wrist, and maybe face law suits.

[shaggie]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071008/D8S59D2O0.html

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[Mellow Yellow]

Thanks for posting the link, I found the following excerpt interesting:

The United States has not made conclusive findings about the shooting, though there are multiple investigations under way and Congress has opened inquiries into the role of private security contractors. Last week, the FBI took over a State Department investigation, raising the prospect that it could be referred to the Justice Department for prosecution. The Iraqi government report said its courts were to proper venue in which to bring charges.

It said Blackwater's license to operate in Iraq expired on June 2, 2006, meaning it had no immunity from prosecution under Iraqi laws set down after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003.

The government report also challenged the claim that a decree in June 2004 by then-Iraqi administrator L. Paul Bremer granted Blackwater immunity from legal action in incidents such as the one in Nisoor Square. The report said the Blackwater guards could be charged under a criminal code from 1969.

I hope justice is served, but I'm skeptical.

[ExposeTheTruth]

If Blackwater made a mistake like that in America, whoever was responsible would go to prison.You don't really believe that do you? Police shoot and murder innocent people on an almost normal basis now (primarily ethnic minorities, but not exclusively) here in the U.S. and almost (read: 99.7% or thereabouts) each time the guilty police party is acquitted of all charges. Please wake up to reality, as time IS running out. As for Blackwater, once they are given authoritative power here on domestic American soil, they will probably serve (at first, at least) as an adjunct entity to local and state police and other law enforcement agencies throughout the country, and gradually (or rapidly?) overtime they would begin to embody and acquire both domestic law-enforcement authority as well as military capability, until the point where both would be indistinguishable from the other. Blackwater, in my opinion, will be the new military and police force within the continental U.S. By 2010, perhaps. Neither major political party will attempt to avert this outcome. Ms. Cindy Sheehan herself understands this.

Posse Comatatus, in a defacto sense, is essentially dead. Only now the veil has yet to be lifted.

[gardener]

Blackwater has done just that on US soil in New Orleans after Katrina. As far as I know none of their agents were ever tried for shooting innocent citizens or pets.


So these guys who literally had just been in the thick of things in Iraq were now marching around the streets of New Orleans, with automatic weapons. They told me that one of their roles was to stop looters and confront criminals. One of the guys showed me a Louisiana state law enforcement badge and said they'd been deputized.
http://www.counterpunch.org/maass06022006.html

[Mellow Yellow]

Police shoot and murder innocent people on an almost normal basis now (primarily ethnic minorities, but not exclusively) here in the U.S. and almost (read: 99.7% or thereabouts) each time the guilty police party is acquitted of all charges.
I like to think we have a system of checks and balances, but you may be right, we just don't hear about it from our sorry excuse for the media, and when we do it's 'cause someone was able to get the word out and enough folks got together and made a stink about it.

A few months before the Blackwater scandal made the news, a buddy of mine was suggesting the same theory that Blackwater would eventually take over the role of our military, but the idea that they could also take over the roll of our domestic police force is really frightening. They would have no government oversight, they would effectively serve the roll of judge and jury, and they would defend the best interests of those that paid them the most. "Justice" would then go to the highest bidder.

[gardener]

I like to think we have a system of checks and balances, but you may be right, we just don't hear about it from our sorry excuse for the media, and when we do it's 'cause someone was able to get the word out and enough folks got together and made a stink about it.

A few months before the Blackwater scandal made the news, a buddy of mine was suggesting the same theory that Blackwater would eventually take over the role of our military, but the idea that they could also take over the roll of our domestic police force is really frightening. They would have no government oversight, they would effectively serve the roll of judge and jury, and they would defend the best interests of those that paid them the most. "Justice" would then go to the highest bidder.
Well it seems more and more our tax dollars are going for just that.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=40485


Lexington Kentucky Police Department paid for private Mercenary Army Blackwater Training while its Mayor Jim Newberry and its chief of police Anthany Beatty refuse free ICE 287 (G) training to protect citizens.Sanctuary City Lexington Kentucky in the United States Heartland is using local tax dollars to hire mercenary Blackwater soldiers to train the police.

[gardener]

Anybody but me and few others remember the shootings in Louisiana.

http://www.rense.com/general69/whore.htm
http://911review.org/Hurricane_Katrina/Danziger_Bridge.html

[gardener]

I wonder why there was such a governmental effort to shut down local militias in the 80s and 90s (those militias were locally based required no federal expense), but Blackwater, a mercenary company is seen as a necessity. It's scary really scary.

I am tired of my tax dollars going to them in secret nonbid contracts like Haliburton receives. If you don't agree with paying for stem cell research or planned parenthood, why should you support the expenditure of US funds on mercenaries?

[SQUIDPUPPY]

Might I suugest sending several dozen pissy e-mails to blackwater each day, just to clog their server////

[gardener]

I think more needs to be done than emails. Hillary and all presidential candidates need to be ask where they stand on Blackwater.

http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=144&a=3898

I for one am not prepared to goosestep to a mercenary force.

[gardener]

They may be training police in an area near you.

Blackwater is secretive about its non-federal, as well as its foreign clients, which the Post pointed out includes Jordan, Azerbaijan, and Burkina Faso, but a WMR inspection of the photograph of the police agencies has yielded the following list of agencies that have used Blackwater for training:

1. Iowa Department of Natural Resources

2. Maricopa County, Arizona Sheriff's Department

3. Matthews, North Carolina Police

4. Atlanta Police

5. Chillicothe, Ohio Police

6. Charleston, South Carolina Police

7. Port Chester, NY Police

8. Highland, Indiana Police

9. Unalaska, Alaska Police

10. Metropolitan Washington, DC Police

11. Charlottesville, Virginia Police

12. Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (Dulles and Reagan National Airports)

13. St. Louis County Police (Missouri)

14. Queen Anne's County, Maryland Police

15. Prince George's County, Maryland Police

16. FBI SWAT Team

17. Gloucester Township, New Jersey Police

18. Tempe, Arizona Police

19. New York Police Department

20. Yonkers, New York Police

21. Fairfax County, Virginia Police

22. Maplewood, New Jersey Police

23. Gastonia, North Carolina Police

24. Tampa Police

25. U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)

26. DeKalb County, Georgia Police

27. Arlington County, Virginia Police

28. Baltimore Police

29. U.S. Coast Guard

30. Suffolk, Virginia Police

31. Franklin City, Virginia Police

32. Milford, Delaware Police

33. University of Texas Police

34. Norfolk, Virginia Police

35. Ottawa-Carleton, Canada Police

36. San Bernardino County, California Sheriff

37. Plattsburgh, New York Police

38. Chicago Police Department

39. Oregon State Police

40. Los Angeles Police Department

41. Tonawanda, New York Police

42. Special Forces of Colombia

43. Jacksonville, North Carolina Police

44. Harvey Cedars, New Jersey Police

45. Elmira, New York Police

46. Department of Corrections, New Jersey

47. Lexington, Kentucky Police

48. Willimantic, Connecticut Police

49. Georgia Department of Law Enforcement

50. City of Fairfax, Virginia Police

51. Alexandria, Virginia Police Special Operations

52. Illinois State Police

53. Dallas, Texas Police

54. Hamilton, Ohio Police

55. Morganton, North Carolina Police

[gardener]

And Canadians you've bought into it as well:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=414820f7-998a-496f-b41d-c033e5d6d168

[gardener]

40. Los Angeles Police Department Just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. We know what they did with Rodney King. Now they have formal training and automatic weapons.

Not to mention permission from our fantastic "Homeland Security Department"!

I feel safer don't you?

[ExposeTheTruth]

9/11 was the catalyst toward all of these developments. Think about it...

then watch: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3979568779414136481

[gardener]

Well Iraq is not backing down which is good, and now the Security Chief for the State Department has resigned. Maybe something will actually happen to stop this travesty called Blackwater.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/5243308.html

[skamikaze]

47. Lexington, Kentucky Police

they actually arent as bad as some other pd's in the area.