drugs are now mainstream....

[eydis]

... yes it started out as a shamanic, mind opening, thing and now it's so disgusting how people make money from it (weed, psychedelics), they use to escape and have fun (they think) to get wasted.... decadence is in the air.

actually it has become so mainstream to do acid, etc.... it's actully"COOL" to do it.... it is not about your own true and personal connection with the universe and your soul....anymore.

i actually lately find it even nicer if someone can attain some kind of spiritual path without having lsd inspired mindblowing visuals.

lsd has bacome mainstream. i am so sad to witness that greedy money stinking bizness sucking energy.... that surrounds the whole acid bizness.

Keep the spirit pure

[Jimmy_Stewart]

i totally agree, ive seen many people do it just because everyone else is.. with no purpose or greater intention

[mushroomdragon]

I was just talking to a friend of mine the other day about the recreational use of LSD and other entheogens. We were actually comparing the way people interact in a social environment on LSD versus a group of people getting drunk together. Obviously I would rather be at the LSD party. Regardless of your intention before going on an LSD trip, the experience is almost always an insightful and enlightening one. Even a "bad trip" can provide a positive perspective or greater appreciation for life.

I think its great that LSD is gaining popularity. I wish it could be freely distributed but as long as we live in a capitalist society there will always be someone profiting from it. IMO LSD is a mind opener no matter how you look at it and I think it could only help this world.

[prismatism]

who cares? having fun is a good thing. and lsd is a lot better than alcohol or most other drugs for your body (and everything else).

what do you think you're going to do once you reach the end of your spiritual journey? once you find enlightenment? :) stop working and just love, just live and enjoy.

lsd is not a drug to make lots of money off of, and it never will be. if you want to make money off of drugs, there are a lot more profitable ones.

[Tipo Sensuale]

its almost impossible to find anyone nowadays who doesn't get high on something - maybe its the re-emergence of the gin years again, a reaction to the same cultural imbalance...

don't get me wrong i spent the longest part of my life doing pretty much every drug going in various combinations, but gave up almost all of them a while back - my body couldn't handle much more abuse and it was a case of stop or drop. and i still see the attraction of being fuckedup each and every day...

in our society tho there is no real alternative to being wasted as a social tool - both for the mainstream and for the alternative cultures... every public place where people go to socialise has some form of drug, whether alcohol, coke, ganj, hash, vics, h, or whatever... both legal and illegal drugs are definitely mainstream.

[prismatism]

everything is a drug.

[Duck]

can't it be mainstream and mindopening

silly =D

[eydis]

BUT.... i've been around with folk that do the stuff since decades.... and... it's just a way to enjoy, have sex, escape boredom. in the end its just a ritual. you'll see.

[tumbledownDNA]

lsd has bacome mainstream. i am so sad to witness that greedy money stinking bizness sucking energy.... that surrounds the whole acid bizness.

Keep the spirit pure
see unfortunately, the truth of the matter is that ever since LSD was released to the masses and no longer kept to a small group of intellectual elite (aldous huxley was in favor of this approach), it has been used to make money. money is the driving force behind this society and thats part of the beauty behind LSD is it has a similar lesson. all it is is a tiny piece of paper, but when used in certain ways it can incredibly powerful. LSD is nothing, its all about your head. there's times when i've taken two hits and seen shadow people, and other times taken a ten strip and walked around talking to people about their day. your thoughts and subconscious mind is always manifesting itself and LSD is like a microscope. it takes any given experience and magnifies it makes it incredibly intense, gives magic to the mundane. if you take LSD in a spiritual context, without lots of people and with something spiritual in mind, you are likely to have a spiritual experience. if you take it and party, you will have a weird, wacky insane party experience, possible the most far out fun you could have. so is one worse? its all just part of the passing show, so before you knock it tell me have you had a genuine spiritual experience? i agree with you, but its all in how you choose to use it and i would like to know your personal spiritual insight on this life and this universe. if you want to have an experience that will almost always bridge on the supernatural, take mushrooms in a forest with your best friend. LSD is far more of a drug, afterall it was a chemical synthesized by humans, a technology to be used for a purpose. mushrooms are little telepathic creatures who have been living on this earth with us for a long time

[tumbledownDNA]

lsd is not a drug to make lots of money off of, and it never will be. if you want to make money off of drugs, there are a lot more profitable ones.
lsd is probably on of the most profitable drug. in large quantity your talking 50 cents a hit which can be sold for up to 10 dollars a hit. i'm not supporting this kind of misuse of this drug but its true. the people who make it are extremely wealthy. but selling lsd is kind of like playing god

[prismatism]

maybe in large quantity to buy already put onto blotter, but i'm talking about the investment, time, love, and risk involved in actually making it. and people who are willing to devote their lives to it that way, probably aren't going to sell large quantities to assholes.

i have a friend who bought a large (not GIGANTIC but pretty big) quantity of lsd and sold it... and he lost money on it, happily. luckily, that is still how it seems to work with all the lsd i've come into contact with and the scenes i've been involved in.

i'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that people who make lsd aren't rich (they kind of deserve to be anyway). but making and distributing lsd just to make a buck is like working and praying every day in a monastery just to have a free place to stay.

[indian~summer]

um, drugs have always been mainstream
saying that they used to be all about the mind expansion and only recently become a "lets all get fucked" type thing is just fucking bullshit
not only is it bullshit, it's pretty ignorant
i'm sorry if saying that offends you
there are cultures where it was about mind expansion...(peyote, vision quests in native cultures for example)
but theres always been a counter culture involving drugs as a way to just get wasted
if there is a drug, there will be a person abusing it
it's sort of human nature

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

[QUOTE=but making and distributing lsd just to make a buck is like working and praying every day in a monastery just to have a free place to stay.[/QUOTE]um... what? No.. They're selling something thats in demand thats fun.

[dd3stp233]

Just about a hundred years ago, in the Sears catalog, you used to be able to mail-order heroin and syringes, legally, that sounds pretty mainstream to me, not to mention, the cocaine and opium elixirs.

Besides that, I seriously doubt there are any (or many) millionaire acid or mushroom dealers, completely unlike big time cocaine and heroin dealers, etc.

[Xac]

everything is a drug.
Well that was insightful :rolleyes:

[neodude1212]

i know what he's saying

it seems like everyone and their mother has dropped some lucy.
and these are people who I wouldnt' give acid to if someone paid me.
crazy times....

[Chodpa]

Some guy at another board wrote this and I rather agree:

------Without fear of some 'other' life or reincarnation, heaven and hell,
evolution, and so on, people would be much happier with free ability to use
their drug of choice. But those conceptual boogeymen keep us bound to our
miseries in their stoical form. Having been on nearly every drug ever and
also given them all up many times and gone back to basics I can really
consider myself qualified to make a distinction.

Here it is. Drugs are really positive for those who have no hope, or who are
suffering. Also, for those who have no path, and few beliefs. Drugs can open
a window to light and fresh air. However they simply cannot keep the window
open and they never open the door. Plus they have side effects. Those side
effects include all of the range of negative qualities for which drugs have
been used to prevent.

Thus karma simply cannot be avoided.

From the karmic POV, that which you fail to work out today you will work out
tomorrow.

I remember wishing my mother would smoke some weed with me once or twice so
that we could communicate better. Until I saw a friend and his mother smoke
the totally potent bud that exists now and watched his seventy year old
mother just sink into a zombie like stupor. You've seen kids just melt into
the sofa but this was ten times worse and she was totally dull and dimwitted
like someone on Xanax.

Since then I have her image in my mind as being the sort of end point of the
stoner evolution. And I didn't like seeing it.

I used to always want pot legalized. But then after working with stoners in
the kitchen I have decided that the ability to quickly throw off the cares
of the world without effort through smoking dope makes one careless, and
yes, dull.

I don't have the answers but after the stoned knucklhead rear ended my car
at the gas pump, driving only two miles per hour, I have changed my mind.
Even pot now is too powerful for the simpletons who comprise our basic
strata of society on earth. Weed does not any longer exacerbate creative
thought and attenuate agression, it now just flatlines both, transforming
neither.

I don't hate drugs. People say legalization would prevent alot of crime. It
might. But then those of criminal mentality would have to find even more
dangerous options for their deviance. The idea of trying to get through to
crowds of stoned people who needed guidance would be over. Stoners united
would be easy to drive over a cliff like dumb cattle and they would be so
driven. With even greater lack of discrimination such people would be easy
fodder for every hustler.

Pot now is quite as strong as opium. Maybe not as physically addictive but
it still is physically addictive. I read accounts every day now at the
Shroomery and other drugs boards where people are developing mental illness
and going through withdrawls. I doubt that it will be deniable very much
longer that even good old pot is now its own Mara."

[Chodpa]

Myself, I did acid about 50 times. I enjoyed it a few of the first times. A number of the second times were like being in hell. And then after a 10 year hiatus I did it again another 20-30 times.

I can say to you all that acid has a very bad effect on the mind and body. Whoever said acid has no effect on the body has not done real acid. It burns up ones free energy signature into dullness. Most people I know who have done acid have developed some sort of obsessive compulsiveness, or turned to drugs which create dullness to forget what they thought was so great when they first did them.

Thus at least one member of 'The Family' that I know of became a heroin addict after selling blotter for a few years because he could not stand the intense nervousness of heightened perception any longer.

You kids now have no guidance. Your parents are all on SSRIs and Benzos. You have only them to look to as mentors and it's getting late in the day for heading East. In the future you all will be more responsible for yourselves and others because the innocence and ignorance of drug abuse will no longer be able to be ignored.

Just last week at this board someone was screaming and crying because he and his little brother wanted to take acid and they got something else. They didn't know what. The boy responsible for giving the drug to his brother had a seriously bad trip. Neither experienced a goal of heightened perception or joy, instead both were left feeling miserable and afraid. This is the state of drug dealing today. None of you can depend upon any other. Each of you will stab each other in the back for a dose of something.

Maybe you guys are a bit too young to see that, but I am not and I see and hear about it every day.

Not in the future, but today, you are responsible for your own actions. You have greater tools at the outset than we had 20 plus years ago. You guys are not naive like we were. You also have spiritual tools available and some great teachers. You therefore have no excuses to lve like ostriches. The world is burning around you and all you guys do is slurp up some dope and talk bullshit about creating a better world. You people are full of shit. Drugs are proven now to have no transforming effect. Proven. Look back at the Sixties and tell me what it alll meant in hindsight. Not a fucking thing.

So keep to taking drugs for fun because that little thrill is all there is to them. As for finding freedom or transcendence or spiritual liberation, that will never be obtained through any sort of drug.

[neodude1212]

I can honestly say that I would not love you as I do without drugs. At least not this point in my life. There are many people that disagree with you.

I dont know about all the mysticism, but drugs give a brief glimpse of ourselfs through new eyes. It's like putting on glasses for the first time. A completely new perception of reality, and there is nothing to be gained?

[BlackBillBlake]

Myself, I did acid about 50 times. I enjoyed it a few of the first times. A number of the second times were like being in hell. And then after a 10 year hiatus I did it again another 20-30 times.

I can say to you all that acid has a very bad effect on the mind and body. Whoever said acid has no effect on the body has not done real acid. It burns up ones free energy signature into dullness. Most people I know who have done acid have developed some sort of obsessive compulsiveness, or turned to drugs which create dullness to forget what they thought was so great when they first did them.

.I'd have to agree with you here up to a point. LSD certainly does lead to energy drain, esp. if you just keep on doing it. I've experienced it first hand like you.....and like you, some years ago. I don't think it does permanant damage to the body, but can definitely have longer term implications for the mind.

There is a very simple explanation as to why it drains the body. It's a bit like power management in a PC. Energy is taken from one part of the being to feed another. Rescources of energy are burned up quite rapidly, leading to the famous acid demoralization and burned out feeling.

neodude1212
I can honestly say that I would not love you as I do without drugs. At least not this point in my life. There are many people that disagree with you.

I dont know about all the mysticism, but drugs give a brief glimpse of ourselfs through new eyes. It's like putting on glasses for the first time. A completely new perception of reality, and there is nothing to be gained?
But is it real love if it only comes with an outside cause like a drug?

I'm not as anti as chodpa - I do agree though with many of the points he makes.
The 60's for example especially. It didn't really lead very far or we'd hardly be in this current mess. Most of the kids of 67 who thought they were being spirtually enlightened very rapidly reverted to the old patterns, and even in a more reactionary way than their parents generation.

My feeling and experience over a long time leads me to conclude that for a small number of people, it can be useful at times. For the majority it's simply a waste of time, and playing with fire. Personally I've met countless acid users, and I only know of 2 other people who I feel have derived anything in the way of long term benefit.
Many just become unstable in one way or another.

[hippie_chick666]

I have to agree somewhat as well. I believe a majority of drug users are not looking for enlightenment- they want their next fix, their next escape from reality, however they see it. I don't know of anyone who smoked weed for spiritual reasons. There were times when I smoked that I had spiritual realizations, but these occasions happened very rarely. Besides, most of the mind blowing realizations I had while on shrooms and stoned vanished once I came down. At first, I couldn't quite remember what I had been thinking and soon I couldn't recall anything. It's like having an amazing dream- after you wake up, you may remember it for a moment or two, but as the day begins, you forget about that dream. Very rarely can anyone recall all the details of a dream after they had been up for a few hours.

If one needs drugs to gain spiritual realization, then that person is relying on something external, which means that person is dependent on the external to experience the internal.

Peace and love

[neodude1212]

I dont NEED it to gain spiritual realization. I could try to manifest this in other ways. But I take the short cut. The end result probably isn't a good as the real thing, but hell, im only 18.

Everytime i blow my mind, it's like im tearing down another fucked up, hateful wall that my ego has build up. It's really lovely. There is no doubt in my mind that my drug use has made me a better person. Do I think LSD and other drugs are the ultimate answer to the mysteries that the Great All has to offer?

Not at all. but I do realize that it is a step in the right direction (for some, not all, to each their own), and an amazing tool.

[BlackBillBlake]

If one needs drugs to gain spiritual realization, then that person is relying on something external, which means that person is dependent on the external to experience the internal.

Peace and loveHC - This is an interesting question.
When we say people shouldn't rely on external means, what exactly do we mean?
Where does internal end and external begin?

For instance, you could say that practicing meditation techniques is 'external' in the sense that usually the idea/method comes from 'outside'. Same with adherence to this or that set of beliefs or philosophy, or 'spiritual'practices. Most 'religious' ideas don't come to people from within, but from sources outside themself - 'outside' their own mind or body.

Going to a church or temple is certainly external, yet it isn't often one see's it criticized for that reason. Often where that is said to be external, all that is really proposed is a different external set of actions.

According to some Yoga teachings, (cf the Bhagavad Gita) the mind itself is 'external', in the sense that it is external to the inner being, the self, soul, atman - whatever name you like.

As usual this devolves to our particular understanding of language and the terms used.

[Chodpa]

Naw, obfuscation.

Drugs are material for one thing. For another, they cost money off the top and need to be constantly replaced or reinforced.

Thus they always must be considered first prior to the state of mind.

Looking back, I find the wisdom of an 18 year old about his betterment through chemistry suspect. What spiritual goal has he established in the first place, and what has he done to prove his meddle upon the stream of existance besides feel a little better through drug created mind modification?

My guess is nothing.

Noone is going to have the energy to create some sustained positivity as based in drug use alone because the next day there always is that smack oneself in the head and the WTF was I thinking?!

Drugs simply cannot equal calm abidance in spontaneous benevolence.

It's better to not be benevolent at all if you must do so through drugs because on drugs your very system of insights is as warped as the drug. Thus maybe on dope your idea of charity is passing a joint to a stranger.

[BlackBillBlake]

Naw, obfuscation.

Drugs are material for one thing. For another, they cost money off the top and need to be constantly replaced or reinforced.

Thus they always must be considered first prior to the state of mind.

Looking back, I find the wisdom of an 18 year old about his betterment through chemistry suspect. What spiritual goal has he established in the first place, and what has he done to prove his meddle upon the stream of existance besides feel a little better through drug created mind modification?

My guess is nothing.

Noone is going to have the energy to create some sustained positivity as based in drug use alone because the next day there always is that smack oneself in the head and the WTF was I thinking?!

Drugs simply cannot equal calm abidance in spontaneous benevolence.

It's better to not be benevolent at all if you must do so through drugs because on drugs your very system of insights is as warped as the drug. Thus maybe on dope your idea of charity is passing a joint to a stranger.Things is though, no that many people are 'spontaneously benevolant' because they've been brought up/educated/programmed into self-serving competitive ways of thinkng and acting by the culture in which they live.

I have said that I agree, there are definite drawbacks and even dangers with psychedelics - but I think they have a role to play in helping some people to break out of all that.
Once a person has had a glimpose that there is 'something else' that knowledge can never be entirely lost, even if it gets buried, it is sure to re-emerge in the future in one way or another.

Perhaps they'd be better off sheepishly following the conventions with which they've been stuffed by society?

When I first took lsd - over 30 years ago, I was a teenager with no spiritual goal, or even much interest. It was the acid experience that set me off looking into all of that, something which still goes on now, although I am not particularly interested on doing lsd these days.

On the 'material' question - the material is just the most outer layer of what is 'outside'.
Most methods of development will cost you money one way or another, whether it's buying books, paying for meditation lessons, retreats or whatever. Also, there are large numbers of false teachers and useless methods out there, and some have had their lives wrecked by following non-drug things like cults etc, whilst others who have used lsd have not had problems, even if some have.

[hippie_chick666]

HC - This is an interesting question.
When we say people shouldn't rely on external means, what exactly do we mean?
Where does internal end and external begin?

For instance, you could say that practicing meditation techniques is 'external' in the sense that usually the idea/method comes from 'outside'. Same with adherence to this or that set of beliefs or philosophy, or 'spiritual'practices. Most 'religious' ideas don't come to people from within, but from sources outside themself - 'outside' their own mind or body.

Going to a church or temple is certainly external, yet it isn't often one see's it criticized for that reason. Often where that is said to be external, all that is really proposed is a different external set of actions.

According to some Yoga teachings, (cf the Bhagavad Gita) the mind itself is 'external', in the sense that it is external to the inner being, the self, soul, atman - whatever name you like.

As usual this devolves to our particular understanding of language and the terms used.Ultimately, one must look within to find the Divine.

Peace and love

[BlackBillBlake]

Ultimately, one must look within to find the Divine.

Peace and love
Thats why mind has to be seen as external.:)

[liquidlight]

If one needs drugs to gain spiritual realization, then that person is relying on something external, which means that person is dependent on the external to experience the internal
One could look upon drugs as a guide in this respect. On arrival at realisation, you have no more need for the guide. I'm sure that drugs just accelerate the process in some, allowing us to dismantle rigid belief systems and dissolve blocks in our psyche. Not a shortcut, just accelerated. Be careful not to crash.

Drugs are like all other things in life ... cars, houses, people, dinner on the table, medical care ect. From a purely spiritual perspective i don't need any of it so why would i partake of the experience? Because it's a joy. Isn't this why creation was created?
The good thing about drugs is that if we get stuck they can help us remember.

[Chodpa]

Best thing about drugs is they fuck you up. Then you can blame something besides yourself.

[Adamist]

Chod says "Noone is going to have the energy to create some sustained positivity as based in drug use alone because the next day there always is that smack oneself in the head and the WTF was I thinking?!"

Ummm, I've hardly EVER gotten that feeling.
Sounds like you just had some shitty drug experiences.
(They aren't for everybody). ;)

Personally, I've had various enlightening, mind-expanding, orgasmic, spiritual, fucking AMAZING experiences on drugs... But I guess those just aren't valid under your belief system. Too bad!

[XBloodyNailPolishX]

I agree with Adamist. Sorry you haven't had any good experiences.... some people just can't handle it...

[Adamist]

Chod seems like a bitter old man whose mom was a crack-head or something.
Who knows where his grudge comes from? http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/moresmilies/huh.gif
He comes off as totally biased against drugs and those who use them.

Get real- some of the best minds of the past century used drugs... Many didn't,
but the point being that you can't make a sweeping generalization saying
"all drug users are ____."
That's just plain ignorant,
and you'd think someone as old as Chod would know that!

[pixeewinged]

Drugs have always been "mainstream" and always will be "mainstream" - even in the animal world there are creatures who like to get f'd up, Elephants eat firmented fruit, lemurs use millipedes to get loopy, and cats eat catnip.. Its just part of the nature of we Earthlings to enjoy what the earth has to offer.

I dont think drug use is something that must be taken so seriously, or spiritually. I sometimes smoke a joint to get inspired, sometimes to relax, sometimes for reflection, sometimes for an aching back, to bond with friends or hell, sometimes just to make that trip to the beach that much more enjoyable. There doesnt need to be anything more to it than that.

I think the same could be said of LSD and mushrooms. Though these two are more psyco-active than marijuana, there still shouldnt be any "rules" for taking them either. Just because one person might take them to go on a spiritual journey, doesnt mean that another should be looked down upon because he is taking them to enhance the concert going experience. Thats just wrong in my opinion.

It sounds like some of you wish that "drugs" would be relegated to a back room somewhere, with a pass word and special knock.. how fucking selfish. Who are you that you are so special as to deem who is and is not worthy of a trip? Someone said, "there is no doubt that drugs have made me a better person" and I say Amen to that brother! So who is anyone here to say that some people are either more or less worthy of that same opportunity?

The simple answer is nobody. Drugs can be a very personal thing, or simply a fun experience, and there is no right or wrong in either form of use. I highly doubt that the LSD or the Mushrooms or the Marijuana give a shit, so why should you? I mean seriously folks, we have enough problems with the government giving a shit about how we choose to spend our free time, the least we can do is support one another.

All of that being said, I do believe that there should be one and only one provision for taking recreational drugs, and that is personal responsibility -(two if you count slipping someone drugs without their knowing...thats just bullshit)
I can agree that there are some instances of people who should be discouraged from doing mind altering drugs (particularly LSD), some would include - children under the age of 15, people with certain medical problems, people with violent, unpredictable or explosive personalities, the mentally handicapped, ex-drug addicts, and Richard Simmons - becuase lord knows he's freaky enough sober, Id hate to see him with a head full of acid!

For anyone out there that wonders why I chose the age of 15 - and thats still quite young- Its because anywhere before that, their brains are still forming... the onset of puberty usually hits around the age of what? - 12-13 and many changes are happening both physically and chemically within the brain. I think to be safe and responsible, one should wait till these things have at least leveled out and become more stable before throwing Lucy into the mix.

anyway, thats just my opinion...

(lol, well wait, do you guys think if Richard Simmons took enough acid, and smoked enough weed, that he might actually turn out to be as cool as Bob Ross?? hmmm..)

[Adamist]

Very nicely put, Pixee..
and yeah I can actually imagine Richard Simmons as an old burned out hippie
in some twisted parallel universe!

15 is a good age to start experimenting, IMO.
That's about the age I started...

[pixeewinged]

lol, yeah, I think he would have to do ALOT of drugs, but I could totally see him talking about happy little tree's and rocks that need a friend. *sigh* I miss Bob Ross!!


http://vergeblich.de/bilder2007/Inmemoriam_D96C/BobRossTheJoyofPaintingEveningsPeace_thumb2.png

[Meretrix]

I think it all depends on the reasons you use the drugs. If it is just for fun then it fine occasionally, if it is for insight (Psychedelics) then it is also fine, but when people start abusing them and taking things all the time then that is when a problem comes in.

In today's society, kids need to be guided hand in hand, because as sad as it is our youth is dysfunctional. America is declining much as Rome did and we are now living in a hedonistic society. People just live for now and only live for themselves.

EDIT: Just a note I thought this thread had more to offer so that is why I bumped it.