Why are people closed-up?

[Hari]

I have been arguing with skeptics for years, but i'm not sure if it's to change their minds as much as just to make them at least get off that high-horse of sketicsism enough to briefly contemplate a larger universe instead of the narrow they have stubornly created, or should I say, they have been duped into believing by modern education.

I remember reading in Castaneda's books, when they stared coming out, that in the not so far future (it was around 1971 still) people would be beyond salvation in that area, because the rapid movement of things.

I did not receive a modern college education, or spend time and money reading too many papers or magazine articles, or books that promote skepticism, so in a way maybe I chose my own 'programming', and maybe that is what we do after all; but do you have an ample or clear explanation as to why people fight so hard to remain skeptics and actually narrow-minded and still consider themselves enlightened...can't they get a glimpse for one second how large and amazing the universe really is?

What could be impossible in it?

[BlackBillBlake]

Just as many narrow minded 'spiritual' so called types around. Many of them simply lack any kind of critical judgement. They cannot distinguish between the essential and what is 'baggage' which has accreted around spiritual teachings over centuries.


The new age is about a kind of big spring clean of the colective psyche. We need to move beyond the old religions and their slave gods, which have universally failed to deliver either peace on earth, or any kind of general perception of anything spiritual whatsoever in the overwhelming majority of mankind.
In effect, people are chained to mainly medieval superstitions, or a kind of bland materialism.
Neither old fashioned 'spirituality' or 'materialism' is going to do it.
We need an entirely new consciousness.

True prophets of the new age would include, but not be limited to, William Blake, Aleister Crowley, G.I.Gurdjieff, Buckminster Fuller, Tim Leary. R.A.Wilson, John C.Lilly.

Where it goes from here is up to us. If we want a new age, it is only we who can create it through our positive actions. If we can learn to see clearly the miracle of our existence here minute to minute, and be truly open , perhaps we can make a start.
Otherwise if we follow the failed scripts of the past we will only repeat the same errors.

[Hari]

Just as many narrow minded 'spiritual' so called types around. Many of them simply lack any kind of critical judgement. They cannot distinguish between the essential and what is 'baggage' which has accreted around spiritual teachings over centuries.


The new age is about a kind of big spring clean of the colective psyche. We need to move beyond the old religions and their slave gods, which have universally failed to deliver either peace on earth, or any kind of general perception of anything spiritual whatsoever in the overwhelming majority of mankind.
In effect, people are chained to mainly medieval superstitions, or a kind of bland materialism.
Neither old fashioned 'spirituality' or 'materialism' is going to do it.
We need an entirely new consciousness.

True prophets of the new age would include, but not be limited to, William Blake, Aleister Crowley, G.I.Gurdjieff, Buckminster Fuller, Tim Leary. R.A.Wilson, John C.Lilly.

Where it goes from here is up to us. If we want a new age, it is only we who can create it through our positive actions. If we can learn to see clearly the miracle of our existence here minute to minute, and be truly open , perhaps we can make a start.
Otherwise if we follow the failed scripts of the past we will only repeat the same errors.You see... I don't totally disagree with your way of thinking, in fact that was my thinking at least the first two decades of my life, yet you seem to be thinking mostly in terms of collective conciousness, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, however there is the individual who is being somewhat neglected, and who needs to inquire deeply about his individuality, and how that individuality is the same as everyone else's, including the gods. That is where we all meet, regardless of power or intelligence--- and That is where you find the truth that sets you free.

[BlackBillBlake]

You are right Hari - the way I see it a collective development is necessary.

Obviously this has to begin with individuals, but it's no use just a few individuals waking up, or there is a high chance that any changes such awakened individuals would try to make will be trampled undefoot by the ignorant majority.

In trad type paths, there is too much emphasis on the individual, on individual illumination. But all an individual can do is attain some inner detachment and bliss for themself, Therefore, everything remains untouched by their awakening in terms of the wider world. One could say that just to seek enlightenment, bliss and so on for oneself whilst the world continues to deteriorate is actually selfish.
In my view, complete happiness can't come whilst millions suffer or are in thrall to outmoded and negative belief systems.

And the critical thing is that we probably don't have much time left. Unless there are big changes in the near future, it seems we may destroy ourselves, or at least the present 'civilization'.
The xtreme materialists won't stop until they've turned the green earth into a polluted and toxic wasteland, and the regressive forces of religion would like to return to the middle ages. Neither option is very appealing in my opinion.

[Hari]

You are right Hari - the way I see it a collective development is necessary.

Obviously this has to begin with individuals, but it's no use just a few individuals waking up, or there is a high chance that any changes such awakened individuals would try to make will be trampled undefoot by the ignorant majority.

In trad type paths, there is too much emphasis on the individual, on individual illumination. But all an individual can do is attain some inner detachment and bliss for themself, Therefore, everything remains untouched by their awakening in terms of the wider world. One could say that just to seek enlightenment, bliss and so on for oneself whilst the world continues to deteriorate is actually selfish.
In my view, complete happiness can't come whilst millions suffer or are in thrall to outmoded and negative belief systems.

And the critical thing is that we probably don't have much time left. Unless there are big changes in the near future, it seems we may destroy ourselves, or at least the present 'civilization'.
The xtreme materialists won't stop until they've turned the green earth into a polluted and toxic wasteland, and the regressive forces of religion would like to return to the middle ages. Neither option is very appealing in my opinion.Unfortunatedly Earth as a planet may have its fate dictated, yet in one thing we may disagree, and that is what we consider helpful and practical, where for me its learning, discussing, remembering scriptures (where the real solution-advice has been written for all to read) and for you may be delving deeper into many other alternatives.

Scriptures can change a person's perspective on things, and once one is convinced in the eternality of the soul, the existence of beings of unfathomable power and knowledge, then one is one the road of being more part of the needed solutions, than part of the consuming problems.

[BlackBillBlake]

Unfortunatedly Earth as a planet may have its fate dictated, yet in one thing we may disagree, and that is what we consider helpful and practical, where for me its learning, discussing, remembering scriptures (where the real solution-advice has been written for all to read) and for you may be delving deeper into many other alternatives.

Scriptures can change a person's perspective on things, and once one is convinced in the eternality of the soul, the existence of beings of unfathomable power and knowledge, then one is one the road of being more part of the needed solutions, than part of the consuming problems.
Well, where there are dictators, they can be overthrown....

It can be an interesting first step to look at various scriptures from varied cultures. One of the first things you notice is how they contradict each other, and also how most of them are not really happy about out lives here on earth. Mainly, the religous thinkers of the past fall into the category of what Nietzche called 'afterworldsmen'.
Do this now, and you'll get your reward in heaven or a better re-birth or whatever.
Meantime, the simple answers that could transform our existence here fail to dawn on people, partly because their heads are full of religious clap trap.
Like JC said, they like to give a big show of religion, whilst they ignore what is of real importance.

We ARE beings of unfathomable knowledge and power. Humankind is infinitely great, or at least we have that potential.

[themnax]

perfectly natural and healthy reaction to being incessently conned or attempted to be conned. it takes not being distracted by the demands for attention of others, to avoid deceiving one's self. at least it makes a huge difference to me anyway.

it isn't that anything we can immagine "can't" exist, rather what can exist isn't limited to what we can either. and there's a whole lot more that no one ever has or ever will, then there is that all of everything, even togather, ever can.

=^^=
.../\...

[Hari]

Well, where there are dictators, they can be overthrown....

It can be an interesting first step to look at various scriptures from varied cultures. One of the first things you notice is how they contradict each other, and also how most of them are not really happy about out lives here on earth. Mainly, the religous thinkers of the past fall into the category of what Nietzche called 'afterworldsmen'.

Nietzche did not die a happy, perhaps not even sane. Why should we even read what mad, atheistic men write? You know it is athesism they promote
with the disguise of great wisdom...in the Bhagavatam the demons claim that they are experts in great wisdom, does that make them less than demons?



Do this now, and you'll get your reward in heaven or a better re-birth or whatever.
So, a student spending eight hours in the library (instead of partying) to graduate and thus receive the reward of a diploma stupid, because he sacrifices the now for the later?





Meantime, the simple answers that could transform our existence here fail to dawn on people, partly because their heads are full of religious clap trap.
Like JC said, they like to give a big show of religion, whilst they ignore what is of real importance.

We ARE beings of unfathomable knowledge and power. Humankind is infinitely great, or at least we have that potential.Whatever we are or have is because God has given it to us, in the same way that whatever a child eats or receives comes from his parents.

[Hari]

Well, where there are dictators, they can be overthrown....

It can be an interesting first step to look at various scriptures from varied cultures. One of the first things you notice is how they contradict each other, and also how most of them are not really happy about out lives here on earth. Mainly, the religous thinkers of the past fall into the category of what Nietzche called 'afterworldsmen'.

Nietzche did not die a happy, perhaps not even sane. Why should we even read what mad, atheistic men write? You know it is athesism they promote
with the disguise of great wisdom...in the Bhagavatam the demons claim that they are experts in great wisdom, does that make them less than demons?



Do this now, and you'll get your reward in heaven or a better re-birth or whatever.
So, a student spending eight hours in the library (instead of partying) to graduate and thus receive the reward of a diploma stupid, because he sacrifices the now for the later?





Meantime, the simple answers that could transform our existence here fail to dawn on people, partly because their heads are full of religious clap trap.
Like JC said, they like to give a big show of religion, whilst they ignore what is of real importance.

We ARE beings of unfathomable knowledge and power. Humankind is infinitely great, or at least we have that potential.Whatever we are or have is because God has given it to us, in the same way that whatever a child eats or receives comes from his parents.

[BlackBillBlake]

Sorry to inform you that I don't believe in 'demons' either.


When I was kid, my grandma used to give me sweets, and sometimes cooked dinner for me too. So did my aunt.

[BlackBillBlake]

And if you think people are closed up, why are you closed up to non-religious ideas? Perhaps you might encounter something which would challenge your ideas?

It only goes to show that some people's idea of openess is actually just as narrow as those they criticize for being closed. At least, it looks that way.

Maybe all those religious 'authorities' have told them to be closed up, and like sheep, they comply. Even to the point of characterizing those with whom they disagree as 'demons'.