Buddhism and Veggies

[Spacer]

Is it compulsory (for want of a better word) for all Buddhists to be vegetarians or just Buddhist monks. I would consider myself a buddhist but I eat meat.

[Meagain]

As far as i know it is not compulsary. The Dalai Lama and many other Tibitans eat meat.

[Lodui]

Like Meagain said their are lots of omni Buddhists, including myself. The Dhali lama too, but I didn't want to compare myself, 'cause i'm probably not a very good Buddhist. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Sebbi]

Well the Tibetans aren't veggie. But that is because it would be difficult for them to live otherwise.

The 1st precept says "Don't take life". Also you are meant to be considerate to all sentient beings, animals included. Include animals in your metta bhavana and you will probably find it harder to stomach flesh anyway.

Blessings

Sebbi

[Lodui]

I'm pretty considerate to the animals I eat. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Claire]

The Buddhist Centre I go to is New Kadampa Tradition and don;t eat meat... I havent eaten meat for 13 years though anyway.

Love Clairexxx

[xdianax]

I was wondering about that myself. Does anyone know if there are any restrictions on what a Buddhist can/can't eat? When you think about it, there isn't much of a difference between being an omni or vegitarian, in terms of its relevance to the 1st precept. A plant is just as much a living sentient being as an animal, and since we need to be nourished with something in order to sustain life, it seems inevitable that we must cause the death of other sentient beings. I think that the most we can do is be grateful to the living being that gave its life so that we could maintain ours.

I did find this Buddhist prayer that can be said before one eats:

This food is the gift of the whole universe,
Each morsel is a sacrifice of life,
May I be worthy to receive it.
May the energy in this food,
Give me the strength,
To transform my unwholesome qualities
into wholesome ones.

I am grateful for this food,
May I realize the Path of Awakening,
For the sake of all beings.
Namo Amida Buddha.

In Kindness,

Diana

[Bhaskar]

Diana, thats a beautiful prayer. Do you think you can find the original version for me?


Here is one famous Hindu prayer fromt he bhagawad geeta that is chanted before a meal:

bramharpanam, bramha havih
bramhagnau brahmanahutam
bramhaiva tena gantavyam
brahma karma samadhinah

Bramhan is the ladle, bramhan is the offering
bramhan is the sacrificial fire, bramhan is the fuel
It goes to Bramhan alone
in order to facilitate the activities of Bramhan.

[MelvnDoo]

when buddhist monks and nuns go on their daily routes begging for food, of course they´re not going to turn down anything that´s offered to them. this obviously includes meat. since they are not the ones killing the animal, it´s ok.


also, buddhism arose out of India, which values cows. cows have been around a LONG time in India - now who´s not gonna say that before they were considered sacred that people didnt eat them?

[Kharakov]

It could be a question of the less aware serving the more aware or the more aware willingly serving the less.

[thumontico]

Plants are not sentient. They are not aware and do not think as far as we can measure. I am not Buddhist, but I base my diet upon a principle so as to cause the least amount of damage possible. I value all life. I consciously realize that I destroyed life, non sentient life, when I eat plants to survive.

[TheSkaEffect]

Life is a very delicate ballance. If nobody killed the animals or chopped down the plants just think how crowded and dangerous the world would be, we would be living in a mass jungle with literally millions upon millions of cows, deer, rabbits, and just about any other animal for that matter and the world would be full of disease. Food would eventually run out and mankind would starve to death.

[thumontico]

That is rediculous.

If you control an animals habitat [that is disallow emmigration] it will self regulate population through available food supply.

Your conception of plant growth is interesting, however, it is not realistic.

[positive vibes]

the Dalai lama isnt a vegetarian anymore, becuase of health reasons.. After more than 30 years of being a vegetarian, doctors advised he eat meat for iron and protein if he intended to continue to travel, and what the 14th reincarnation of the Buddha of Compassion say to that, meat it is.

[Claire]

the Dalai lama isnt a vegetarian anymore, becuase of health reasons.. After more than 30 years of being a vegetarian, doctors advised he eat meat for iron and protein if he intended to continue to travel, and what the 14th reincarnation of the Buddha of Compassion say to that, meat it is.
you can get iron and protein from un-animal sources in the quantities needed for good health...

In-fact the only thing that meat has that veggies / pulses / seeds etc don't have is cholestorol... and you wouldn't be wanting any of that anyway:p

Love Clairexxx

[thumontico]

the Dalai lama isnt a vegetarian anymore, becuase of health reasons.. After more than 30 years of being a vegetarian, doctors advised he eat meat for iron and protein if he intended to continue to travel, and what the 14th reincarnation of the Buddha of Compassion say to that, meat it is.
Do you require these nutrients to survive that the Dalai Lama does? That cannot be recieved from some other source?

You are self contradictory and hypocritical if you do not.

[Meagain]

According to Diki Tsering, the Dalai Lama's mother, they would eat meat twice a week. They would make a stew out of 30 to 40 pounds of meat. At the New Year they would hire a butcher to kill the pigs as it was a sin for them to do it themselves. Sometimes they would also butcher yaks and sheep. The meat was dried in a special room upstairs. Chicken and fish was not eaten.

[MelvnDoo]

Plants are not sentient. They are not aware and do not think as far as we can measure.
i´m pretty sure that buddhism argues that plants ARE sentient beings.


also, i was told that buddhists will chose to eat beef over something like chicken or fish because if you kill 1 cow, that´s one life for a lot of meat. but if you kill a chicken for food, you dont get that much meat for that 1 life. "more bang for your buck," so-to-speak.

[riptiderevolucion]

I'm reminded of this quote, which Gary Snyder quoted in one of his poems: "One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden by the Buddha" Hsiang-yen.

[Strawberry_Fields_Fo]

i´m pretty sure that buddhism argues that plants ARE sentient beings.
All of this depends on the sect of Buddhism. There are thousands of sects and there are very few concepts all can agree on. I'm a buddhist but I don't see plants as sentient beings, and have actually never heard from a source that says that.


also, i was told that buddhists will chose to eat beef over something like chicken or fish because if you kill 1 cow, that´s one life for a lot of meat. but if you kill a chicken for food, you dont get that much meat for that 1 life. "more bang for your buck," so-to-speak.
Again, depends on the sect. I personally do not consider myself a vegitarian, and I justify this by the fact that we evolved to be obnivores (and no one can deny this--that is why we have both molars and canine teeth). Of course we don't HAVE to eat meat; bears are obnivores but they can survive without fish. I eat meat because I like it, period.

We can argue about the ethics surrounding it till the end of time--the bottom line is, it's my body and I decide what I eat (on a side note, I hate tofu and most vegetables; and soymilk makes me gag). Of course I acknowledge that I'm eating a dead animal--it's not like I'm denying anything. But NO ONE CAN BE PASSIONATE ABOUT EVERYTHING. There are certain issues in this world that I personally don't care about. As a Buddhist, I don't see that as apathy (it would only be apathy if I didn't care about anything) but as managing my compassion so I can use it most effectively. In other words, I would rather care passionately about a few issues than have a little interest in a lot of issues.

If I do in fact end up with bad karma (which I don't believe I would because I have no ill will or bad intentions towards the animals), then what is it to anyone else? My karma is my business and my responsibility; no one else's.

[thumontico]

So, Strawberry, you are saying since we evolved in the direction such that we are omnivores that ethical justifies the destruction of life? Unless you believe yourself to have the intelligence of a bear do not try to compare your ethics to theirs. Bears are not capable of reasoning, you are.

I would say that a righteous Buddhist would gain comfort in claiming that one cannot be passionate about everything, perhaps that is true, but one CAN be considerate of everything.

Would it be justified in this society for a cannibal to feast on your flesh simply because it tastes good? Verily, a hierarchy is self evident, I do not hold animals lives over humans, necessarily.

I am relatively unfamiliar with Buddhism, however, knowing the basic tenentes I would assume that if it was possible logistically Buddha would have been a vegetarian simply for the preservation of life.

[Strawberry_Fields_Fo]

So, Strawberry, you are saying since we evolved in the direction such that we are omnivores that ethical justifies the destruction of life? Unless you believe yourself to have the intelligence of a bear do not try to compare your ethics to theirs. Bears are not capable of reasoning, you are.

I would say that a righteous Buddhist would gain comfort in claiming that one cannot be passionate about everything, perhaps that is true, but one CAN be considerate of everything.

Would it be justified in this society for a cannibal to feast on your flesh simply because it tastes good? Verily, a hierarchy is self evident, I do not hold animals lives over humans, necessarily.

I am relatively unfamiliar with Buddhism, however, knowing the basic tenentes I would assume that if it was possible logistically Buddha would have been a vegetarian simply for the preservation of life.
I will say simply this: I eat meat because it tastes good, but also, as I said, I hate tofu, most vegetables, and soymilk. I don't eat as much meat as you might think (I'm actually primarily a carbohydrate and dairy person), but I'm not about to beat myself up over eating something that is already dead and will have gone to waste anyway.

Of course I can reason more than a bear--and I have reasoned that if our creator had meant for us to eat only vegetables, he/she/whatever would have made us into herbavores, rather than throw us into some moral quandry of being able to eat meat but also worrying that it's wrong. In other words, why not just let us keep the intelligence that we have but have us evolve into herbavores instead?

You throw out your own argument of cannibalism when you admit that some heirarchy is self-evident. Most animals do not eat members of their own species--it goes against logic.

About being considerate rather than passionate...I feel I am being considerate--I am eating a part of an animal that would have gone to waste and be thrown in the trash had I not eaten it. This does not mean that I buy all the meat I possibly can at the store just to save them from being wasted. But I do not just ignore the fact that an animal had to die to give me my chicken--I acknowledge it, respect it, and move on with my life. I am by no means ungreatful.

On another note, I have learned through numerous disappointments in my life not to be idealistic. I know that the meat industry will NEVER cease to exist because of vegetarians. You can say, "Well if everyone was a vegetarian, blah, blah, blah..." But that will never happen, and I for one will be the first to acknowledge it. Most vegetarians realize the enormous scale of their dream of shutting the meat inustry down (and I'm speaking here of vegetarians opposed to the killing of animals no matter what--even if its free-range), and chose to become vegetarian anyway because it makes them feel better morally. Please note that I never said there was anything wrong with this. If it makes you feel more morally secure in your actions, then fine. But just know that I would not feel as though I was making a significant difference if I became a vegetarian, and thus I personally don't see the use in making the effort.

The bottom line remains: My body, my life, my karma.

[thumontico]

First do not claim design by some creator of our digestive system (visit one of the numerous Evolution vs Creationism threads in the Atheist/Agnostic). Our digestive systems formed through thousands of years of evolution.

If the desire is preservation of life, the goal will not be reached with the mindset of "since its already dead, might as well eat it". Sure that is reasonable, but only to a certain degree, for every time you eat the flesh of animal you are contributing to its death: simply supply and demand.

My point in the cannabilism bit was about life in general. Could not the "my life, my body, my 'karma'" be applied to animals? In your mind what justifies the ability for another being to end the life experience of another being? Because it tastes good, no doubt. In my mind, it would be necessary survival [sustanance and defence].

[Strawberry_Fields_Fo]

First do not claim design by some creator of our digestive system (visit one of the numerous Evolution vs Creationism threads in the Atheist/Agnostic). Our digestive systems formed through thousands of years of evolution.When did I say I didn't believe in evolution? Just because I believe something created us doesn't mean I think it happened in 7 days. My point remains--we evolved like that for a reason.

If the desire is preservation of life, the goal will not be reached with the mindset of "since its already dead, might as well eat it". Sure that is reasonable, but only to a certain degree, for every time you eat the flesh of animal you are contributing to its death: simply supply and demand.Have you ever bought anything that was made in China? Because, you know, the Chinese government is responsible for numerous human rights abuses, so how do you justify not buying meat but still buying products from an abusive government? What if I didn't buy the meat, but someone else did? Then, I wouldn't be sending any money to the factory farms, am I still not allowed to eat it? And are you suggesting that it would be better for me to throw out the meat and have the animal killed for no reason? If I were the animal that was killed in a factory farm, I personally would rather be eaten by someone who was appreciative of what I had to go through (which I am; I realize not all meat eaters are, but I can't control them) than to be thrown away and wasted.

My point in the cannabilism bit was about life in general. Could not the "my life, my body, my 'karma'" be applied to animals? In your mind what justifies the ability for another being to end the life experience of another being? Because it tastes good, no doubt. In my mind, it would be necessary survival [sustanance and defence].Once again: Evolution. We evolved to be more intelligent than most animals, and it was our intelligence (as opposed to our speed or size) that helped us when we hunted and later when we learned how to grow crops. Chickens, cows, and so forth are lower in the food chain. Does this excuse our torturing of the animals before they are killed? No, but there's nothing I can do about it. I would prefer to see more free-range farms, and would support some kind of legislation regulating how animals are treated before slaughter, but I'm not about to hold my breath.

And I never said that meat tasting good was my ONLY reason for eating it. As I've said about a thousand times now: I HATE tofu, most vegetables, and soymilk. What am I supposed to do? Starve? My sister is a vegetarian, and she has a vegetarian cookbook. I've tried alot of the recipies--I don't really like any of them. I'm just not a vegetable person. It's just personal taste.

[thumontico]

What is the difference between you sending money to meat producing companies or your friend? You're desire for consumption, in any case, (atleast indirectly) instigates the death of that animal.

How can you weigh the life of a being over TASTE? Tofu has no taste in itself really, it is mostly the seasoning that it has.

I have no great compassion for animals, but I have consideration of life. I have nothing against killing animals if it is necessary, but it is not. Aside from ethical questions in this particular area, factory farms are in general bad for the environment.

[Claire]

What is the difference between you sending money to meat producing companies or your friend? You're desire for consumption, in any case, (atleast indirectly) instigates the death of that animal.

How can you weigh the life of a being over TASTE? Tofu has no taste in itself really, it is mostly the seasoning that it has.

I have no great compassion for animals, but I have consideration of life. I have nothing against killing animals if it is necessary, but it is not. Aside from ethical questions in this particular area, factory farms are in general bad for the environment.
Well put:)