Dianetics?

[HIGHonLife895]

Anyone else ever heard of this section of Scientology? I learned about it last week, sounds pretty interesting i was just wondering if anyone has heard of it or tried it. If u have tried it does it work? I kno its a lot of work and im willin to try if it works.

thanks

[Paul Morphy]

Scientology is basically a cult, so if you have any desire to lead a normal, free-thinking lifestyle, I'd suggest you not concern yourself with it.

[HIGHonLife895]

yea i kinda got the idea it was a cult but id figured id ask

[Newman]

Yeah I've heard of Dianetics. One of my friends decided to take their little "test" for a school project on religion and guess what it revealed? That she needed Scientology in her life! haha yeah. I live in the Scientology capitol of the world (Clearwater, FL) and they basically own everything. It's really weird. If you drive through downtown you see all of them walking down the street, exercising, or getting on their private buses. The houses they live in fall short of boot camps. They all have to wear the same clothing, are not allowed to own automobiles, and are not allowed to leave their compounds unless they want to be cut by the razor-wire or electricuted by the fence.

hmmmmm...cult indeed.

paz

[shaggie]

I heard Clearwater has a sight where people claim to see the Virgin Mary on a large glass pane of a building. The pattern actually formed from minerals in the water from a sprinkler system. There's more of the same patterns on the back of the building, but the owners are working hard to wash them off the glass so that people won't know it's a natural phenomenon.

[Newman]

heard Clearwater has a sight where people claim to see the Virgin Mary on a large glass pane of a building. The pattern actually formed from minerals in the water from a sprinkler system. There's more of the same patterns on the back of the building, but the owners are working hard to wash them off the glass so that people won't know it's a natural phenomenon.Actually that was destroyed a couple months ago by a frustrated kid. That image had to have been the biggest joke of religious propoganda I had ever seen. You're right though, the patterns around the building were caused by the impurities of the reclaimed water in their sprinkler systems, but I doubt the image itself was created by sprinklers. As high up on the window as the image was, someone had to have gotten up there on a ladder to spray it.

There's still a shrine in front of the building and people still flock from across the country to worship it. You should have heard the outrage of the Christian community when the kid broke the window. He's 16 and they wanted to send him to jail for 5 years for hate crimes. It turns out though that it had nothing to do with hatred for Christianity. Apparently he had just had a fight with his step-parents late at night and stormed out of the house. He was pissed off so he just threw some ball-bearings at the window. Instead of the 5 years (which is quite an irony coming from a so-called Christian community), he was forced to pay for the replacement of the window (about $1000), and he has to attend anger-management counseling. And of course the Christians are still bitching about how they got shafted by the secular system or some crap.

paz

[shaggie]

Well then, I guess they shouldn't have washed off all the patterns on the other side of the building.

[Turn]

Feel free to crucify me once I say this but....

I always thought dianetics was another way of saying anal sex.
So is it?

[Applespark]

My friend went to a scientology school and he wanted out after a while but he'd basicly signed himself tehre for life. Im not sure how he got out but he did.

[BlackGuardXIII]

I took a Dianetics course about 15 years ago, and it taught me some valuable things. There are lots of good people in Scientology, and much information that is useful. It is not for me, though. My instructor drove me to quit by denying my constant requests to work ahead, since I was always sitting there idly, with my stuff done. He pissed me off, and I told them that was my reason for leaving.
I did have one other reason, though. After class one day, I casually mentioned that I was about to receive the proceeds from selling a house, ($16 000).
In an assessment a couple of days later, where they determine what you need to focus on, and what the best way to do it is....my result came back as a pkg. of classes that totalled $16 000. My conspiracy theorist heart said it was no coincidence.

[MrRee]

Dianetics is the title of the book written by L Ron Hubbard from which the scentology movement commenced.

Without a doubt the book is worth reading for any aspirant of the path to inner knowledge and understanding. Except for the last few chapters which maintain that the only way to be "clear" (no hangups) is to be treated by someone who is already clear, and they (clears") can only be found in scientology (my oh my!! who would have guessed???).
Read the book by all means.
Find the facts before you act http://www.xenu.net/
http://www.xenu.net/images/time-cover.png (http://www.xenu.net/archive/media/time910605.html)

[Ms_Kitty]

http://galleryoftheabsurd.typepad.com/14/images/tomandxenu_1.jpg


And make sure you know all about Xenu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu)too!

[MrRee]

Anyone else ever heard of this section of Scientology? I learned about it last week, sounds pretty interesting i was just wondering if anyone has heard of it or tried it. If u have tried it does it work? I kno its a lot of work and im willin to try if it works.

thanksThe book "Dyanetics' by L. Ron Hubbard gives an excellent basis upon which you could learn to understand the principles upon which psychological development depends, which can then be used to overcome inherited psychological traits that cause continuing life disturbances. I would whole-heartedly recommend that you read the entire book ~ except the last few chapters in which scientology sneaks in claiming to be the only way to ensure success, which is as much as load of rubbish as any religions salvation claim.
Take the knowledge from the book and apply it yourself. Never risk some clown from any religion telling you that only they "know what's right" ~ they're no different from loan-sharks and shonky used car salesmen.
Great book for an easy head start in understanding psychology.

[2cool]

Dianetics is brilliant. Anyone who wants to better themselves or those around them needs to buy the book. It's amazing and offers actual results founded by research. Anyone who says it's phony or brainswashing is a liar or is ignorant. Please, go to your nearest Church of Scientology and buy the book. It will help you. Scientology can and will help you. It is not a cult. Please go to www.scientology.com (http://www.scientology.com/) and read through the FAQ. Scientology doesn't brainwash anyone. It actually frees oneself spiritually and allows tyhem to make excellent decisions. The only thing I gottsa part on with Scientology is it's anti drugs movement. The hell to that man.;)

[Mr. Slyman]

The people over at the Tom Cruise message board sure aren't very friendly. I tried to have an open and honest conversation about scientology over there and they shunned me and my friends. I questioned them on why Cruise says drugs are evil and they were so rude.

[2cool]

Scientologists believe drugs aren't "evil" but that they can cause massive damage to the spirit and an cause "engrams" to be formed in the mind. You'd have to read the Dianetics book to find out what an engram is.

[Kharakov]

The people over at the Tom Cruise message board sure aren't very friendly. I tried to have an open and honest conversation about scientology over there and they shunned me and my friends. I questioned them on why Cruise says drugs are evil and they were so rude.It's because you are a sp (suppressive person), which is what anyone who questions scientology is (according to scientology):
“ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967
[SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]
“A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable.”- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 1 March 1965, HCO (Division 1) “Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists”
“The names and connections, at this time, of the bitterly opposing enemy are: 1. Psychiatry and psychology (not medicine). 2. The heads of news media who are also directors of psychiatric front groups. 3. A few key political figures in the fields of “mental health” and education. 4. A decline of monetary stability caused by the current planning of bankers who are also directors of psychiatric front organizations [that] would make us unable to function.”- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 16 February 1969, “TARGETS, DEFENSE”

So mental health professionals are Scientology's enemy. It's pretty hilarious if you think about it....

[2cool]

So mental health professionals are Scientology's enemy. It's pretty hilarious if you think about it....
Because they are taking the wrong course of action. They are making 5 year old children who just stare out windows take pills. Any kid that like to keep themselves is suddenly fiding themselves in intensive therapy. People that are believed insane beyond help are suddenly faced with an icepick for a full frontal lobotomy. All of this can be prevented. Therefore if they are trying to help lifes with faulty practices, they are actually hurting them and that must be stopped.

[Levi]

Go to www.xenu.net (http://www.xenu.net)


Scientology is bunk.

The founder was a science fiction writer who said that a good way to get rich would be to create a religion.

Then he created a religion in which a person has to pay lots of money to advance spiritually.

Hmmmmm.

Read that quote here
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/scientology/start.a.religion.html

[2cool]

Wow, that's pretty arrogant of you to pass judgement on something which you apparently know very little about. That Xenu site, it's as good as a super market tabloid, except less people are interested. I cannot find one single reference of L. Ron Hubbard talking about Xenu or any shit like that. Oh and L. Ron Hubbard was already rich to begin with. It's alos very ignorant to portray him as some guy who just pulled this whole scheme out of his ass. He spent decades traveling the wordl learning about different cultures and religons. From Asia with Buhhdism to Haiti and their Voodooism. (sp.) Anyway, all religons get alotta shit when they first come along. Scientology is the fastest growing religon in the world and i guess some people feel threatened, or disgusted by that. So soon here comes this "Xenu" site. Sorry but Scientology is about getting rid of insanity and other mental problems, not murderous space kings.

[2cool]

Okay I'm just gonna apologize in advanc for calling Levi arrogant but people just kill me sometimes. It seems like the world just always wants to find the bad in something. B4 you try to see the good something does, try to find something bad about it. Even if what you've found isn't true. Anyway, I'm done here. But please people, have an open mind.

[Levi]

Did you explore that xenu.com site? It's run by a guy who spent 30 years in Scientology.


My cousin used to have a friend whose family were Scientologists. When she refused to be drawn in his parents decided that she couldn't talk to their son any more. They sent him to another city to get some more training. We haven't seen him since. That was in the 1980s.

L. Ron Hubbard's own colleaugues, other science fiction writers, said that they had personally heard him say several times that a good way to get rich would be to start a new religion. Then he did.

You know, not all that glitters is gold. Not everyone who says they have your well-being in mind is telling the truth. Things that sound too good to be true are too good to be true.

Any philosophy that is worth its weight in manure can stand up to a little questioning, a little research.

Of course, you're free to associate with whoever you want to, but I would urge you to ask yourself questions along the way. If you do get involved in Scientology, or anything else, and other believers try to tell you who to talk to, where you can go and when, what to wear, etc., then it's time to ask yourself some serious questions.

If anyone tells you that you can make spiritual progress for a fee, get out of there.

[2cool]

I explored it enough to not be impressed. I have visited the Scientology Mission here in Houston and they were very nice. A man, who looked like some grungy truck driver had just gotten out of auditing (therapy) and their seemed to be a calmness about him and he seemed quite satisfied. The people there were very nice and for some reason didn't charge me tax on a book I bought there. I am capable of making my own decisions, and if my decision is that Scientology is a fraud, I will defect and help keep people away. But at this time I am yet to see such evidence arise.

[underground04]

while dosing up naturally onrey kids with ritalin is a bad thing, scientology is a huuuuuugggggeeeee load of dog shit and a dangerous cult

[2cool]

What do you base that on? How are they dangerous? How are they even a cult? A dangerous cult is like those nuts in Japan that tear gassed the subways when they weren't elected to political positions. I doubt most people here have even read the book "Dianetics:The Modern Science of Mental Health" much less "Scientology:Fundamentals of Thought". It works people. Sorry but it's saved lifes and sanity. And if you'd rather believe some shitty tabloid site go ahead. Scientology doesn't need your support. I wish people would let this thread die.

[2cool]

UNITED STATES – NEW YORK – SEPTEMBER 11



http://www.scientology.org/pics/std/world/news/volunteer-ministers/photo06a.jpg http://www.scientology.org/pics/std/smarty.gif Immediately following the terrorist attacks in New York and DC, the Church organized the Volunteer Ministers corps over 800 strong. They came from all over the United States and Canada and as far off as Australia. Volunteer Ministers went to local hospitals to help the injured being brought there for treatment. They also provided food, water and logistical support to the rescue teams. By the day after the attack, in New York, the team of Volunteer Ministers was stationed at the emergency aid station at the Stuyvesant High School across from the city’s emergency headquarters, which was inside the perimeter closed off by the National Guard. When Mayor Giuliani came by, he was visibly moved and thanked the Church volunteers for all they had done and congratulated them for their efforts.



http://www.scientology.org/pics/std/world/news/volunteer-ministers/photo02.jpg The president of the Church of Scientology of New York (http://www.scientology-newyork.org/) was part of a group of religious leaders who accompanied President Bush to the World Trade Center disaster site.

http://www.scientology.org/pics/std/world/news/volunteer-ministers/photo01.jpg A Volunteer Minister who had been working with a police officer coordinating materials and supplies for Police Department executives on the scene, was taken to meet the NYPD’s Chief of Police who told her that he wanted to personally thank her and the Church of Scientology for all their efforts.

The Volunteer Ministers were also acknowledged by the New York Fire Department. An officer told them that the Department couldn’t be doing what they’re doing without them. A reporter from the New York Times saw Volunteer Ministers giving assists (simple procedures that help an individual recover from shock, grief, pain and exhaustion) and wanted to know about them. She did an interview with the president of the Church of Scientology New York, which led to an article “Religious Leader takes his calling to Ground Zero.”

-I think in peoples haste to drag this religon through the mud they are quick to forget what Scientology has done to help people. They aren't brain washing fiends guys, that's just ridiculous. In fact, quite the opposite.

[natural23]

An example of a POV to consider:


http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/Lisa_McPherson_Scientology_Deaths.html?FACTNet

[natural23]

It is possible for good and bad qualities to be mixed within the same entity; an openess to review, to entertain questions openly, is a sign of health.

[2cool]

That Lisa McPherson thing is so dumb. She died from and injury sustained in the car wreck. I guess people are saying that Scientologists took her and beat her???:confused: It's really weird. Anyway if the evidence against them is so damn incriminating why was the case against them dropped. Because no one could prove Scientology inflicted this upon her. I wish people would be alittle more tolerant of other religons. If I wanted to I could discredit or find problems with any religon. But I choose to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs. The same courtesy is not returned.

[natural23]

2Cool,

Notice I said "a POV to consider". I have my own experiences with Scientology, some show promise and other experiences show a closed-mindedness and "hard-sell" techniques. In reading parts of Dianetics I was impressed and feel that the book has provided me with some useful information on ways to view human experience. If Scientology is breaking the law or impeading the rights of individuals or other groups then, I believe, that this is not good. Limited study of the Lisa McPherson case left me with some serious questions about the alleged procedures used by some Scientologists relating to this tragedy. We should not be so fast to conclude, no matter what the truths we think that we see make us feel; instead we can learn more about our selves by listening to these feelings, by listening to these awarenesses. I wish you good progress with your work.


Natural23




.

[2cool]

I wish you good progress with your work.
Thank You.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

Wow, that's pretty arrogant of you to pass judgement on something which you apparently know very little about. That Xenu site, it's as good as a super market tabloid, except less people are interested. I cannot find one single reference of L. Ron Hubbard talking about Xenu or any shit like that.

The Xenu story is directly from the "confidential" OT lll materials.That's been confirmed countless times by former OT's.It's forbidden for lower level Scn'ists to read that material.According to Elron,it will make them physically ill.One could be in Scn for years and never hear of Xenu.

Oh and L. Ron Hubbard was already rich to begin with..

He was writing Sci Fi for pulp magazines.

It's alos very ignorant to portray him as some guy who just pulled this whole scheme out of his ass.

The basic Dianetic therapy technique can be found in Freud.The rest he pulled out of his ass.

He spent decades traveling the wordl learning about different cultures and religons. From Asia with Buhhdism to Haiti and their Voodooism. (sp.)

The incredible number of lies in the Church of Scientology's bio of Hubbard would be a good place for you to start learning.
For years this stuff went unchallenged.Any journalist attempting to write about Scn would be harassed,intimidated,sued,or worse.
Now,with the internet,that's all changed.Entire books on the story of Hubbard and Scn are online.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

Dianetics is brilliant. Anyone who wants to better themselves or those around them needs to buy the book. It's amazing and offers actual results founded by research.

There has never been ANY research in or about Dianetics/Scientology.

Anyone who says it's phony or brainswashing is a liar or is ignorant. Please, go to your nearest Church of Scientology and buy the book. .

If you want to be on their junk mailing list for the rest of your life.
By all means,though,anyone who wants should get the the book at a used bookstore and read it.Or try to.Read their website.Then read the critical websites.

It will help you. Scientology can and will help you. It is not a cult. Please go to www.scientology.com (http://www.scientology.com/) and read through the FAQ. Scientology doesn't brainwash anyone. It actually frees oneself spiritually and allows tyhem to make excellent decisions. The only thing I gottsa part on with Scientology is it's anti drugs movement. The hell to that man.;)

Sorry,it's a harmful cult.It's a closed information system,no questioning allowed.Any criticism of Hubbard or Scn will get you in deep shit.Hard sell,coercement,intimidation,peer pressure,etc are used to keep adherents in line.If a family member leaves the "Church",the members that stay are often forbidden to communicate with the defector.That includes parents and children.It's called the policy of "disconnection."
In fact,2cool,if you were 18,and your parents were critical of Scn,you'd be advised to join staff and have no communication with your parents.
Do you think you may have something to learn here?
All of this does not mean that Scn'ists are bad people.They're victims of a con.And it doesn't mean there's nothing good in Scn--for many people there is,at least at the lower levels.It's the piece of cheese in the middle of the rat trap.

[2cool]

He was writing Sci Fi for pulp magazines.Actually his father was a high ranking officer in the navy.




The basic Dianetic therapy technique can be found in Freud.The rest he pulled out of his ass. Not true. Freud's theory is completely different, believeing all problems came from psychosexual agitations.


The incredible number of lies in the Church of Scientology's bio of Hubbard would be a good place for you to start learning.
For years this stuff went unchallenged.Any journalist attempting to write about Scn would be harassed,intimidated,sued,or worse.
Now,with the internet,that's all changed.Entire books on the story of Hubbard and Scn are online. Not everything on the internet is true. The internet is actually probably one of the worst places to find good information. Much of the info you find from the internet is biased, slanderous, and basically half truths. Anti Scientology propoganda hit it's peak in the 1990's and since has almost completely died out.

[2cool]

Here this is a great website that has info on all religions. They are unbiased on all religious info and are totally unassociated with Scientology. They give quite a fair summary of Scientology.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/

[natural23]

How do we form a hypothesis, by making observations and using imagination to find explanations for these observations. 'Fantasy' and 'reality' are intimately linked.



.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

That "tolerance" website merely regurgitates the fluff found on Scn's official website.Just like you do a lot,2cool.
Not everything on the internet is true,of course.But that's where you'll find all the affadavits and statements by ex-members who worked closely with Hubbard for decades.Google "Robert Vaughn Young" or "Gerry Armstrong".
Don't trust "the internet"? Fine,Google "Time Magazine Scientology" or "St. Petersburg Times Scientology".
The 1991 Time cover story,"Scientology,the thriving cult of greed and power" prompted a libel lawsuit by Scn,which they lost.An excerpt:
*******
The Church of Scientology, started by science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard to "clear" people of unhappiness, portrays itself as a religion. In reality the church is a hugely profitable global racket that survives by intimidating members and critics in a Mafia-like manner. At times during the past decade, prosecutions against Scientology seemed to be curbing its menace. Eleven top Scientologists, including Hubbard's wife, were sent to prison in the early 1980s for infiltrating, burglarizing and wiretapping more than 100 private and government agencies in attempts to block their investigations. In recent years hundreds of longtime Scientology adherents -- many charging that they were mentally of physically abused -- have quit the church and criticized it at their own risk. Some have sued the church and won; others have settled for amounts in excess of $500,000. In various cases judges have labeled the church "schizophrenic and paranoid" and "corrupt, sinister and dangerous." (Time Magazine)
*************
Re Hubbrd's bio:
*************
The founder of this enterprise was part storyteller, part flimflam man. Born In Nebraska in 1911, Hubbard served in the Navy during World War II and soon afterward complained to the Veterans Administration about his "suicidal inclinations" and his "seriously affected" mind. Nevertheless, Hubbard was a moderately successful writer of pulp science fiction. Years later, church brochures described him falsely as an "extensively decorated" World War II hero who was crippled and blinded in action, twice pronounced dead and miraculously cured through Scientology. Hubbard's "doctorate" from "Sequoia University" was a fake mall-order degree. In a I984 case in which the church sued a Hubbard biographical researcher, a California judge concluded that its founder was "a pathological liar." (Time Magazine)
***********************

[2cool]

This is all written by writers who are paid to make Scientology look evil. Certain people have tried for years to destroy Scientology and ultimately have failed. You don't see much anti-Scientology propoganda these days unless your really looking for it on this gutter of information: the internet. Certain people are scared that Scientology can effectively help people. They're scared because Scientology brings happiness and sanity to people, when they themselves survive off the suffering of others. Scientology would've died out years ago if it was a giant fraud. But instead it's the fastest growing religion in the world. Scientolgy is not evil. It is not a fraud. People have walked into Scientology churches suffering from Migraines, back pains, schizophrenia, and all have left never to see the returns of these problems. Scientology will make a big change in the world. You'll see.:)

[Bluesbilly Dave]

More of the party line,2cool."Suppressive persons" are out to get Scn,and anyone who asks critical questions is a "suppressive person." Scientology has all the answers,just don't look behind the curtain--it's the Wizard Of Oz.
I noticed you disagreed with their drug policy,though.

[2cool]

More of the party line,2cool."Suppressive persons" are out to get Scn,and anyone who asks critical questions is a "suppressive person." Scientology has all the answers,just don't look behind the curtain--it's the Wizard Of Oz.There are alotta suppressive persons out there. Haven't you noticed? Haven't you ever seen that one person that always seems to cause problems for everyone? That one person who just seems to make things go wrong? That one person that just always seems to look for a fight? Scientology has answers. Maybe not all the answers, but they are on the right track. BTW their is no curtain in Scientology. It is the most open religion in the world. Nothing is closed doors. All is there for you to better yourself, you just have to reach out and grab it!http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif


I noticed you disagreed with their drug policy,though. Yeah, I dunno about toxins staying in your body forever. But then again I can't argue with the results from their Drug rundowns!

[Bluesbilly Dave]

2cool,
Do you have a family member that's a Scientologist? How did you get into it? You mentioned buying a Dianetics book at a Scn mission.Have you spent much time there otherwise,taken any courses etc? I'm just curious what you're basing your opinions on.

[2cool]

No I haven't spent much time there. But that's because I'm moving to Austin soon. But they've got a full blown church there. Soon as I get there I'm getting signed up for courses and training! How did I get into Scientology? Well I remember we had a flyer they put on our door. It sounded interesting so I went to their website. I was intrigued. So I went down to the mission, bought Dianetics, and talked to some of the people there. Very nice people. One rough looking dude had just came out of a session. I just remembered he look down and saw I was buying Dianetics looked and was like "That's a dynamite book ya got there!". I dunno, everyone was so alive and in a good mood. Well they wanted me to sign up with them but I told them I was moving soon. They said fine but they would be happy to just transfer my info to Austin when I move. But I think I'll just wait.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

2cool,in a few different threads here you've accused people critical of Scientology of not having an open mind.If you'll pardon me saying so,you seem to have made your mind up and pretty much closed it,based on ONE SOURCE OF INFORMATION.
At least from what you post here.Personally,I believe you have your doubts.You'd be loony if you didn't.
I've tried to respond directly to some of your points,and you barely responded to any of the substance of what I wrote.My posts are still there,with lots of pointers to articles,names to Google,etc.Rather than buying the L Ron Hubbard line that anyone critical of L Ron Hubbard is an evil being or being paid off,I challenge you to have the guts and integrity to read some of the first-person accounts of former Scientologists.Or read the St Pete Times series of articles that won them a Pulitzer Prize.
If you go shopping for a car,the dealer is only going to tell you how great that model car is,for obvious reasons.If you can get on the internet and read a poll of owners of that model and how they rated it,wouldn't you want to have that information?
You said in one post that if you get into it and decide to defect,you'll warn other people about it.That's all I'm doing.

[2cool]

Personally,I believe you have your doubts.You'd be loony if you didn't.I have some questions yes. But I'm sure the Church would give me satisfactory answers. So far I'm impressed with what I've heard.


I've tried to respond directly to some of your points,and you barely responded to any of the substance of what I wrote.Mostly beacuse your posts are regurgitating the same old propoganda I've already read like: "It's a harmful cult!". I'll respond to that. The word "cult" is used so loosely these days that Jehovahs Witnesses, Zen Buhhdism, and even the Baptist Church have been accused of being cults.


My posts are still there,with lots of pointers to articles,names to Google,etc.Rather than buying the L Ron Hubbard line that anyone critical of L Ron Hubbard is an evil being or being paid off,I challenge you to have the guts and integrity to read some of the first-person accounts of former Scientologists.Or read the St Pete Times series of articles that won them a Pulitzer Prize. I have alot better things to do with my time than read what some paranoid "anti cult" activist has to say about any religion that is created other than Christianity. I've read it all. "They are just milking the $ out of you!" "L. Ron Hubbard was a drug addict" "They will beat you if you leave!" It's all a load of crap.

Can you possibly believe if Scientology were so dysfunctional as you seem to portray it, that it would still exist today, 50 years later? They would've been squashed as a hoax and an abusive organization long ago. Within a few years they'd been shut down. But this isn't make believe land like all those nuts would like you to think. Scientology isn't this Mafia religion where extortion, harassment and murder are commonplace. This religon is sprawling all over the world BECAUSE IT WORKS! This isn't like the Raelians made up "human cloning system". L Ron Hubbard isn't like David Koresh "sinful reincarnation of Jesus". No, it's not. All religons are troubled at the start because people fear change in these areas. Anti cult activists paranoid over the next "Jonestown" become rabid in their attacks. 20 years from now I bet there will be a good 50 million members of Scientology, and attacks on the church will be non existent because it will finally have proven it's worth and it's life changing programs.


You said in one post that if you get into it and decide to defect,you'll warn other people about it.That's all I'm doing. Yes and that's exactly what I will do but I honestly can't see that happening. Oh, and I do appreciate your concern about this. You don't seem like a bad person but I believe you've fallen for this trash. It's always funner to believe the worst about something rather than seeing the best in it

[Bluesbilly Dave]

I have some questions yes. But I'm sure the Church would give me satisfactory answers. So far I'm impressed with what I've heard.

Of course they'll have satisfactory answers.That's their business.You think a Ford salesman is going to tell you that the motor is likely to crap out just when the 50,000-mile warranty is up?

Mostly beacuse your posts are regurgitating the same old propoganda I've already read like: "It's a harmful cult!". I'll respond to that. The word "cult" is used so loosely these days that Jehovahs Witnesses, Zen Buhhdism, and even the Baptist Church have been accused of being cults.

I agree that the term is used too loosely.Here's how I'm using it:

From the FAQ here:the question "What kind of cults are there?" (excerpt)
"A negative cult could refer to a movement that claims to be a religion, but which in reality is harmful to its followers and/or to others."

From a later question about characteristics: (excerpt)
"Free thought and dissent may be restricted and a person may have to rely on the group's leader for all of their instruction. Group members may be subject to psychological, physical, or spiritual harm. Members may be intimated or deceived within the group or in relations with outsiders
Secrecy may be a major part of the group."

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
Definition by secular cult opposition:
"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community."

Can you possibly believe if Scientology were so dysfunctional as you seem to portray it, that it would still exist today, 50 years later? They would've been squashed as a hoax and an abusive organization long ago. Within a few years they'd been shut down.

It's the cleverest,most ingenius con game ever invented.How many weight loss scams do you see a day if you watch TV or read a newspaper?


But this isn't make believe land like all those nuts would like you to think. Scientology isn't this Mafia religion where extortion, harassment and murder are commonplace. This religon is sprawling all over the world BECAUSE IT WORKS! This isn't like the Raelians made up "human cloning system". L Ron Hubbard isn't like David Koresh "sinful reincarnation of Jesus". No, it's not. All religons are troubled at the start because people fear change in these areas. Anti cult activists paranoid over the next "Jonestown" become rabid in their attacks. 20 years from now I bet there will be a good 50 million members of Scientology, and attacks on the church will be non existent because it will finally have proven it's worth and it's life changing programs.

Good grief,all this from reading the sales pitch on the Scientology website and briefly visiting a Mission? It's definitely a tribute to the way Scn can suck a mind in.
It's true that some anti-cult people are a little nutty themselves.I don't include Time Magazine,the St Pete Times,San Francisco Chronicle.Boston Globe,etc,etc,etc,in that group.
Ditto the hundreds of ex-members who've given their accounts online.I repeat,for the last time,READ WHAT THE EX-MEMBERS SAY.
I think I'm done with this for now.You need to do your own homework at a time when you have eyes to see.
It's like you've just fallen in love,and won't listen when your friends tell you that your sweetheart is blowing every guy in town for $20.
By the way,I see my remark about "defecting" and warning people went right over your head.
-Bluesbilly Dave
Ex-Scientologist

[2cool]

Ah so your an x-Scientologsit. Well I'm sorry for whatever got in your way from reaching your full spiritual potential. Much luck to you in the future.:)

[Bluesbilly Dave]

Thanks,good luck to you too.

[Kharakov]

From the FAQ here:the question "What kind of cults are there?" (excerpt)
"A negative cult could refer to a movement that claims to be a religion, but which in reality is harmful to its followers and/or to others."

From a later question about characteristics: (excerpt)
"Free thought and dissent may be restricted and a person may have to rely on the group's leader for all of their instruction. Group members may be subject to psychological, physical, or spiritual harm. Members may be intimated or deceived within the group or in relations with outsiders
Secrecy may be a major part of the group."

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
Definition by secular cult opposition:
"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community."

Whoa.. You mean that Life itself is a cult? (God...)

[Bluesbilly Dave]

Whoa.. You mean that Life itself is a cult? (God...)

What do you mean?

[Kharakov]

What do you mean?
Umm you quoted this:

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing (LIKE LIFE (God)) and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community."

Just read that thing carefully. It describes life (God) to a tee... in a sorta funny way.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

If you say so.I'm familiar with several meanings of the words "Life" and "God" but I've never seen them used as synonyms.
I'm not saying you're wrong.I just have no idea what the hell you mean.
The definition starts with the phrase "a group ot movement" which I take to mean a group of people.
By your reckoning is a marching band or your Mom's bridge club synonymous with the concept "Life (God)"?

[Irish Hippy]

i remember my first encounter with the scientologists.

it was great, they explained how scientology could change my life forever... how it had helped millions and how i have so much potential they can see that scientology could pull out of me with ease.
Only problem was they would tell me NOTHING about scientology, just that it saves people. i asked does it believe in God, oh its great it will help you. What are the principles behind scientology? Being great and help you. Thats ALL the could tell me. then leaving they gave me 20 leaflets walking out the door to read over before i next came back.
I FINALLY had some stuff that might tell me about scientology, but as i turned to walk out the door they said "That'll be E150 (about $175), please."
Lol...i gave them their leaflets that i never asked for back and left.
My final verdict: is Scientology a coherent and well communicated society of people, trying to help the world? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. more like a bunch of crazies bent on taking the world over.
peace and Love

[2cool]

It's funny, how history just repeats itself. Every time a religion comes out it gets ridiculed with slander. Mormons were accused of pedophilia. Christian Science of brainwashing and extortion. Christians of Cannabalism. Roman Catholics of sacrafices and nuns being sex objects for priests. And these weren't just "rumors". It was on front pages of newspapers. These were thing being said by "actual members". Today all of those religions are floursihing. I used to get angry when people talked bad about Scientology. But now I see, it's just history repeating!:)

[gnrm23]

well, maybe except l ron hubbard started the whole dealio as a scam, eh?

[2cool]

No actually he didn't. But again this is a rumor that flew around new religions and still does to this day. But if you'll notice, you don't hear much anti Scientology propoganda these days. Cuz, just like in the past, it didn't destroy the religion.

[Irish Hippy]

here is a site of interest to any1 interested in L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.mystae.com/streams/gnosis/hubbard.html
peace and love

[IronGoth]

OR this

http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/6.htm

Interesting.

There's a schism in Scientology - complete with a splinter group, Freezone (which practices Scientology outside the Church of Scientology)

http://www.freezone.org/english.htm

[Disarmed]

Removed

[L Fraud Hubbard]

bump

[ArnieLerma]

re dianetics

http://www.lermanet.com/images/astounding-small.gif (http://www.lermanet.com/scientific.htm)

Scientific American, January 1951
By Isaac Isidor Rabi (Nobel Prize Winner)

DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH, BY L. RON HUBBARD. Hermitage House ($4.00). This volume probably contains more promises and less evidence per page than has any publication since the invention of printing.

California Institute of Technology, a review of Dianetic
"Counting noses of adherents is not evidence"

American Scientist October 1950 Hubbard:
like a "child stamping his foot"

Dr Oscar Sachs from Mt Sinai Hospital in NY
"old psychoanalytical concepts"

Milton Sapirstein: Hubbard -
"the leader of the inner manipulative clique"

Journal of the American Medical Association:
nonsensical tomfoolery

American Journal of Psychiatry:
Hubbard's own paranoid delusions

And there was a clinical test!
Clinical Test of Dianetics - FAILS!

http://www.lermanet.com/scientific.htm