psychedelics and spirituality

[poopzilla33]

i find psychedelic drugs to be the most spiritual experience on the planet earth. does anyone else here feel similair?

[Littlwing70]

I was in my early 20's the last time I had a phychedelic experience. I had plenty at that time but for the experimentation reason not spiritual. I would really like to try them to help me find my spiritual path or help me find my truth. Would love to experiment in that way.

[TattoedAquarian]

I agree. - I never experienced love until i tried shrooms.

[Littlwing70]

I would have to break myself in with shrooms, cid might be a little much after such a long time off, lol.

[BlackBillBlake]

I agree. - I never experienced love until i tried shrooms.
Not from your mum even?

[darkain]

I had a religious awakening from BZP.

[eydis]

THE PROBLEM is that people use drugs because they are bored, want to party, have sex, just get wasted. even psychedelics and plants... they are young, and have not so many demons inside and can just do every drig in the world because it s exiting. life is getting less and less spiritual. that is actually one of my biggest sorrows today.

[BlackBillBlake]

Hang on - it isn't only the young who get bored, or who use drugs to enhance their life experience.


When people say 'spiritual' I wonder sometimes what they mean by it. Seems to me that a fundamental aspect of the new consciousness is a breakdown of the old barriers and dichotomies between what is 'spiritual' and what isn't.

Generally, in the past, if was fun it wasn't spiritual. These days people are seeing things somewhat differently.

[Liroy]

Hang on - it isn't only the young who get bored, or who use drugs to enhance their life experience.

Finally someone that see's it indeed are not only the young.

[StayLoose1011]

Psychedelics can be very spiritual and mind-expanding, but I do not believe that drugs have even close to a monopoly on "spiritual" experiences. Ever had really really good sex? Not nervous, performance-anxiety-ridden, fumbling-around-in-the-back-seat-of-Dad's-Ford sex, but transcend-this-moment, body-quivering, can't-help-but-moan sex. Ever stared death in the face, or watched a loved one die? Ever witnessed childbirth? Ever given an unexpected gift that blew the doors off somebody? Ever taught somebody how to read after forty years of illiteracy?

There are so many "spiritual" experiences, and to worship psychedelics as the ultimate is to ignore a huge range of the human experience, all of which can be used to further progress to love, liberation, and total peace with God :)

[KiddieP]

Huh?

[prismatism]

Hang on - it isn't only the young who get bored, or who use drugs to enhance their life experience.


When people say 'spiritual' I wonder sometimes what they mean by it. Seems to me that a fundamental aspect of the new consciousness is a breakdown of the old barriers and dichotomies between what is 'spiritual' and what isn't.

Generally, in the past, if was fun it wasn't spiritual. These days people are seeing things somewhat differently.
i agree. completely.



i think that it's not really the act of taking psychedelics that is more spiritual than other things. i think that psychedelics can produce psychedelic thinking, and that applies to everything there is to think about. i think that spiritual thinking and psychedelic thinking are very close cousins, or brother and sister, or even the same thing. i think that they are a mode of thinking outside of our first four circuits, which are basically animalistic. or as prabhupada would say, "eat, sleep, mate, defend". to step outside of that, and either look at it, or look in a different direction, but not to be preoccupied with it. which doesn't mean that eating, sleeping, mating, defending, are not spiritual or psychedelic experiences. augh no this would take way too long for me to write out eloquently, it's 5 am and i will come back to this later. haha.

[BlackBillBlake]

i agree. completely.



i think that it's not really the act of taking psychedelics that is more spiritual than other things. i think that psychedelics can produce psychedelic thinking, and that applies to everything there is to think about. i think that spiritual thinking and psychedelic thinking are very close cousins, or brother and sister, or even the same thing. i think that they are a mode of thinking outside of our first four circuits, which are basically animalistic. or as prabhupada would say, "eat, sleep, mate, defend". to step outside of that, and either look at it, or look in a different direction, but not to be preoccupied with it. which doesn't mean that eating, sleeping, mating, defending, are not spiritual or psychedelic experiences. augh no this would take way too long for me to write out eloquently, it's 5 am and i will come back to this later. haha.
Hmmm....yes, I suppose thinking differently is a start - but the thing with psychedelics is really that they can take you beyond the realms of ordinary thinking into something which is much more direct.
My own experiences have convinced me that the mind is an overated thing. It has it's place and is useful to us humans, but it can also lead to limitation, narrowness and so on. There is no final mental idea or proposition which one can really say is the 'truth'. All the conflicts between different belief systems come from the assumption that there is.
It is more about a direct experience of reality.
They can help you to connect with your own being at all levels.

That said, I ought to say too that myself I haven't used any psychedelic for a decade. At one phase of my life they were useful for me, but there are limitations, and they can only show you so much, only take you so far.

It can be very interesting and expansive to look at different levels of existence and planes of reality etc, but in the end it is what you can bring back with you that counts.
I'm more interested these days in this plane of reality, and how the lessons learned from psychedelics can be brought to bear on it in a creative and positive way

[poopzilla33]

im only twenty, one day thats what i plan on doing

[BlackBillBlake]

im only twenty, one day thats what i plan on doingA worthy aim, but don't fall into the drop out druggie trap - get your material life sorted out too - it is important.

[shobs]

i agree, there is so much i want to do in the world, so many spiritual experiences (not psychedelic one) but i feel trapped, i havent a clue wat i want to do with my life and i dont wanna just live the "hippie life" and be poor all the way through, i will probably take over my fathers business because financially i will almost be definetly set. but i dont want my entire life to just be a repeat, i want to get out and do new stuff, but at the same time i have no idea how ill do that with college, maybe i will for a few years after college, but then idk

[BlackBillBlake]

i agree, there is so much i want to do in the world, so many spiritual experiences (not psychedelic one) but i feel trapped, i havent a clue wat i want to do with my life and i dont wanna just live the "hippie life" and be poor all the way through, i will probably take over my fathers business because financially i will almost be definetly set. but i dont want my entire life to just be a repeat, i want to get out and do new stuff, but at the same time i have no idea how ill do that with college, maybe i will for a few years after college, but then idkI'd certainly go for college - if nothing else, it might be a new experience.

Genarally, I think you're on the right track in saying you don't want to be poor - if you are poor, you become disempowered, and also just surviving can take up all your energy.
These days, a lot of what was once new and radical and labelled 'hippy' is being assimilated into the mainstream. That's probably the only way things can change harmoniously.
In some ways, a lot of what is generally thought of as 'new age' is part of this process.
I know people who hold down good jobs and yet they are involved in other stuff too - the festival scene, protests etc, stuff like healing, meditation - all sorts of stuff. Psychedelics even!
If you want to travel around a bit, perhaps you'll find a way to fit in in with your life. I hope so.

It can be hard sometimes to visualize one's own future life - I know, I've done it many times and been wrong. Where I saw only a blank, something has come along to fill it.
Generally I think if you have good will then that in itself will carry you a long way.

[galaxi]

i used to worship psychadelics, they were my religion.


i have learned that while on one hand these mind expanding creations can aid you in the process of discovering buried truths they can also aid you in the destruction of your sense of self. they can break down your individuality! what i mean by this is psychadelics are not for everyone..this is no understatement.

if you can keep from abusing them- you have my blessings.but what if you need a spiritual awakening every weekend? or every other day.

they expand your mind for the time being but if you push your limits and they are not made for you..they could shrink your brain into a pea of confusion.

[BlackBillBlake]

Worshipping psychedelics is probably not a good idea. They are a tool, nothing more.


They may indeed break down the sense of self, but probably that's because the sense of self is a constructed thing, and often quite illusory or false. Many people are actually disconnected from their inner self.

I'd say psychedelics can actually put you more in touch with your real self at a deep level. They can also show where changes might be needed in one's life, which could concievably lead to a kind of re-construction of the self, or sense of self.

If you do them every other day, you'd end up with a tolerance fairly rapidly. One can only have the psychedelic experience so often. If you do them too much, they will cease to work.

In today's world there are a great number of weak minded people. Arguably, this is result, at least in part of the dumbed down culture we are surrounded by. In some, even mild substances like cannabis can lead to mental imbalance.
That's not to say there is anything wrong with the substances, but with the conditioning which people have recieved, and not only from the mainstream culture, but from hippy type BS also.

Things like psychedelics can only be bad for such people. They are definitely not for eveyone, but that doesn't mean of course that they're not for anyone.

[dd3stp233]

I don't think psychedelics are bad for anybody unless they are used incorrectly. In the various cultures that use psychedelics as part of their religion, they are used about once a week, and none of the health studies done on them showed any ill effects, that includes the elderly and children. There are no limits on what they can do, except the persons imagination that does them.

The archaeological evidence of the use of various psychoactive plants and fungi, far out date any known religion, it likely dates back to the dawn of the human species. The use of them is probably a key ingredient in the invention of religion, in the first place. Religion would be a by-product of an aspect of the experience.

[BlackBillBlake]

I don't think psychedelics are bad for anybody unless they are used incorrectly. In the various cultures that use psychedelics as part of their religion, they are used about once a week, and none of the health studies done on them showed any ill effects, that includes the elderly and children. There are no limits on what they can do, except the persons imagination that does them.

The archaeological evidence of the use of various psychoactive plants and fungi, far out date any known religion, it likely dates back to the dawn of the human species. The use of them is probably a key ingredient in the invention of religion, in the first place. Religion would be a by-product of an aspect of the experience.Definitely psychedelics had some input into shamanistic type belief systems. Also in the vedas there is the mysterious 'soma', which could possibly have been a mushroom.

As for psychedelics being bad for some - I can assure you from personal experience that they can be very bad for some. In people with hidden mental imbalance or issues of that kind, they can in fact be a catalyst which can cause on-going mental problems.
Probably, in such people, the problems would surface one day anyway, but certainly for some psychedelics are contra indicated.
And of course, some people don't need that kind of stimulus at all.

It would be foolish to pretend that psychedelics are entirely safe and free of risks in every case. However, in reasonably intelligent and well balanced people who make sensible use of them, they can be a unique and very useful thing.
Nothing is for everybody.

Also, there certainly are limitations with psychedelics - they can only show you so much, and don't necessarlily lead to anything positive beyond a short term experience.

[dd3stp233]

I get where your coming from BlackBillBlake, but your psychedelic experiences, are just that, yours, and that is doesn't make it necessarily true for anyone else. As Leary and others have said before, "Any reality is an opinion". Maybe there are limits for what psychedelics can do for you, but I find that the consensus of many lifelong users, gurus, shamans, etc is that there isn't any limits, and is a infinitely creative realm. Maybe, possibly, did you not have a knowledgeable guide into the experience? In the context of cultures/religions that use psychedelics, I am not aware of anyone that is excluded from the use of them. To the contrary, they are often used for curing things like mental illness and mental problems. This a probably a foreign concept to how most westerns experience psychedelics, and it is in a very different context. Some of the first legal uses of LSD was for psychotherapy. Some of these groups have been using them continuously for at least several thousands of years, maybe tens of thousands. I would tend to think with that much practice that they at least partially know what they are doing.

Some people maintain that christianity and Judaism were an outgrowth of a fertility cult that also used a psychedelic mushroom, as in John Allegro's "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross".

[BlackBillBlake]

You have a rose tinted view there. I personally know at least one case where ongoing life-long mental illness was triggered by psychedelics.


As to their suitability for everyone, it is simply not the case.

Probably when you get a bit more experience, you'll begin to see reality, rather than a hippie dream.

Personally, I think the idea that c/anity came from mushroom use is utterly absurd. It is an anti life, and very anti psychedelic cult, full of morons to whom things like acid should never be given.

[dd3stp233]

I never said everyone can do them,however they want, I said if they were done correctly. There is a big difference. There is always a potential for hurting one's self, when doing things wrong, like walking, if a person trips over their own feet and falls, could break their head open. I'm not sure what your disagreeing with.

[BlackBillBlake]

Right. Well what I'm saying is there are some people who should never do any psychedelic substance regardless of how they do it or under what conditions.


Also, I think there are definite limits to how far they can take you.

Hope that clarifies my position.

[themnax]

psychodellics can maybe be a cool experience. shaired celibration can be a cool experience. real spirituality is entirely another kind of cool experience that has nothing to do with either of them, nor for that matter, with any kind of defined or defining of belief.

whatever kind of experience you get from mind altering, whateven kind you get from shaired euphoria, these are all great things, but the're just totally seperate from that sense of loving and loved connectedness with the spaces between trees and rocks and the little spirits that live down by the creak or dance in the breeze through the blackberry leaves.

=^^=
.../\...

=^^=
.../\...

[dd3stp233]

Also, I think there are definite limits to how far they can take you.

A person can meditate or think about anything on psychedelics, so how can there be a limit to what a person thinks, other then what they know about and their imagination?

[BlackBillBlake]

It's all down to personal experience - probably you haven't reached the limit with psychedelics, perhaps one day you will.

[rygoody]

All paths lead to one.

[mara-aum]

lsd has been a porthole that i use on occasion to cross the veil. my experiences have only ever been beautiful and filled with light. i find it medicinal-for body, mind and spirit.


i also use marijuana daily as part of my spiritual lifestyle.

[BlackBillBlake]

lsd has been a porthole that i use on occasion to cross the veil. my experiences have only ever been beautiful and filled with light. i find it medicinal-for body, mind and spirit.


i also use marijuana daily as part of my spiritual lifestyle.
Ever try Ketamine?

It's more pwerful than acid and because of the shorter duration is easier to fit into a busy schedule.
Just one thing though - never do K alone - always have a minder because it can take you out of the body ( into the 'K-hole'), and takes away full bodily functionality so you could injure yourself by falling etc.
Otherwise if used moderately it is pretty safe.
Also in the UK (don't know about America) it isn't actually under the dangerous drugs act, but is only a controlled medicine, so the legal position is also less risky.

[mara-aum]

i have heard of ketamine--from my hubby--but i have never tried it....i'm up for a try!!!! i'd also like to try dmt & salvia.