virgin birth

[Okiefreak]

Was Jesus really born of a virgin? Can Christians not believe it and still be Christians?

[RELAYER]

Yes, Jesus was born of a virgin, I completley believe this.
So was Buddha if you look into it.
But, my belief of this coincides with my belief in reincarnation, I
believe that certain advanced souls may chose how they
are birthed into this world, and some chose to not be born of the
human parents sexual desires, thats all really.

[meishka]

joseph could have cum on marys stomacha and then she rubbed it in her pussy

[Okiefreak]

Somehow I don't think that counts.

[Okiefreak]

So was Buddha if you look into it.

Some challenge the virgin birth of Buddha on the technicality that his mother, Queen Maya, was married at the time and became pregnant after dreaming of being impregnated though her rib cage by a white elephant, which could be interpreted as a form of sexual intercourse (Ouch!)

[RELAYER]

...which could be interpreted...
Of course :)
Im just pointing out that there is more than one
example of this kind of virgin birth taking place
in advanced souls throughout history ~

[RELAYER]

By the way, if I remember correctly, the White Elephant WAS
the future Buddha, so therefor, He was deciding how He would
be born, exactly like I said jesus may have.
Well, not exactly same way, ahhh you see what I mean :&

[Liroy]

joseph could have cum on marys stomacha and then she rubbed it in her pussy

Lol :P
yes that would mean she indeed was still a virgin at that point... hilarious way of putting it though.

[RELAYER]

Yea it was pretty funny :D

[natural philosophy]

ive read the parts of the new testament regarding the virgin birth and i don't see it that way. in matthew it says that she became pregnant before her and joseph were to 'come together'. reading the story in literal terms, i've come to realize that jesus may have been born from a premarital relationship(they couldn't wait until after the wedding ceremony). joseph didn't want to make public example of her because he knew that he was poking around before he was supposed to. it was half his fault. i just think that the mythology was added later to make it seem more mysterious.

i believe in god's power, but i also believe that 'he' is a god of science. it is 'his' medium through which 'miracles' are worked. and it's not biologically possible for a woman to reproduce asexually.

[RELAYER]

and it's not biologically possible for a woman to reproduce asexually.
Ancient Indian sages were capable of willing matter to be
from thought alone, as I mentioned in another thread, and
could also dematerialize.
I realize how absurd this seems to say that it could be possible
for life to come without sexual desire involved, but I wouldnt
be so quick to say something is impossible.
Insanely weird, yes.
But we can never truly know.

[natural philosophy]

is there any proof that these sages can do this?

[RELAYER]

is there any proof that these sages can do this?
Well, no. But please Craig dont laugh at me!
I know it sounds absurd, but i have reason to
believe this is how it is.
If you wish, if i can get online tonight when
I have more time I will explain what I've found
for you.
It has to do with Jesus being incarnated from
Elisha, who has another name in the New Test.
than the old, and John the Baptist was incarnated
from another as well, and they were soul mates
even Jesus acheived some sort of attainment
after being "baptized" by John, and Mary
went to Elizabeth after the Angel appearance
(Which I dont really think is a angel but whatever)
and the babe leaped in the womb, all this crazy
stuff but please dont write me off as a loon, I will
explain soon as I can ok ?

[natural philosophy]

no john don't think im trying to ridicule you. i can't discredit your reason for believing in one thing or another. i'd love for you to explain to me what you are trying to say here. i'll try to be on AIM later tonight. :D

and yes it sounds absurd to me, but every religious person has to come to terms with the level of absurdity that they'll believe in, ahaha. trust me, i've believed in some pretty absurd stuff lol

[RELAYER]

Ok awesome! I knew that you would be interested, now
Im excited because so far, NO one has given this idea
thought when I speak of it, their all like Yea OOOOOOOOK... :rolleyes5:

[meishka]

ahahaha i found a case of "virgin birth"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo

the last paragaph in early life

[xexon]

The virgin birth is symbolic. Its not a physical event as people believe.

A virgin birth occurs when a spiritual master such as Jesus returns to earth by their own will.

For the masses, they are trapped in the physical world by their attraction to it. Even though reincarnation is not on the Christian menu, I have to use it here to illustrate my point.

People are not perfected within one lifetime. It takes many. You are shielded from this information so it doesn't interfere with your present life. Upon reaching this perfection, (call it enlightenment or the Christ conciousness if you like), you are free to leave this world. You have entered the kingdom. You have no further obligation here.

People like Jesus return out of great compassion, to help those who struggle in the dark world of materialism. They have become spiritually blind and are unable to find their way home.

And as you recall, Jesus was known for his compassion.



x

[natural philosophy]

The virgin birth is symbolic. Its not a physical event as people believe.

People are not perfected within one lifetime. It takes many. You are shielded from this information so it doesn't interfere with your present life. Upon reaching this perfection, (call it enlightenment or the Christ conciousness if you like), you are free to leave this world. You have entered the kingdom. You have no further obligation here.

People like Jesus return out of great compassion, to help those who struggle in the dark world of materialism. They have become spiritually blind and are unable to find their way home.



x
interesting view, x, christ could be seen as a boddhisattva in a way. although i believe in the cycle of samsara to an extent, i could see how it is possible for jesus to have the christ consciousness, even from a young age. cool post

[RELAYER]

Yea, samsara is unfortunatley required.
Hell is the first level of the heavens 7 leves,
where gross desire and evil is manifested
without anywhere to hide. All souls whom
have not cleaned themselves of desire must
go through this plane, it is a purification process.
The laws of nature are a reflection of the heavenly
laws, and in both planes are enacted without chance
for exception. -

[natural philosophy]

Yea, samsara is unfortunatley required.
Hell is the first level of the heavens 7 leves,
where gross desire and evil is manifested
without anywhere to hide. All souls whom
have not cleaned themselves of desire must
go through this plane, it is a purification process.
The laws of nature are a reflection of the heavenly
laws, and in both planes are enacted without chance
for exception. -
john, is this your personal philosophy or is there somewhere i can read more?

[RELAYER]

Natural, this weekend I ate mushrooms with the girl I am in love with.
I have eaten mushrooms hundreds of times, LSD, etc. and NEVER had
something like this happen.
We were sitting there, meditating to a picture of Parvati (Divine Mother)
and we BOTH, at the same moment, experienced a pain in our bodies
that is almost beyond description.
It felt like pins and needles, like we were poisoned throughout. We both
felt our organd shut down and our heart and blood cancel out.
Then we fell on the groun, unable to move, for several hours.
And while lying there, I WAS dead Craig, I saw my soul take on
negative karma and I ascended to what I believe is the 3rd plane.
Honestly, the pain and the joy we both experienced is so far beyond
our own current mental capacity, that I can only fail to recount what
happened in detail.
For most of the time, we were able to read each others thoughts,
something we had never experienced before.
I tend to think we brought the Divine Mother directly into our conciousness
and she took over us for a few hours, showing us the bliss and the
hell of the soul's progression.
This is common Hindu science, read the Veda's, Upanishads, Gita, etc.
You can try Sri Yukteswar's The Holy Science to start, and for a simple
English explanation, read The Ancient Wisdom by Annie Besant. She is
a thelosophist but she is on the right track.
We have the Physical, Astral, and Causl (mental) bodies, each goes
through 7 level's of existance, and so do the heavens.
People can say what they want, but I know what I felt Craig, and
it scared the living shit out of me. -

[stoney69]

When she brought Him (Jesus PBUH) to her people, “… They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing. Oh sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot” (Quran 19:27-28).

At this point, Jesus (PBUH) reveals His first miracle and speaks to public:

… Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet. And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! (Quran 19:30-33)

there is an entire chapter on Maryam, peace and blessings be on her called Sura Maryam in the Quran ..apart from two other's

[WayfaringStranger]

i see i go away and someone takes my name

[xexon]

Relayer,

Mushrooms cause the brain to drop many of the filters we use in our normal waking state.

Now, be aware that the mind is a factory. It can manufacture anything you can dream up. Anything. Couple this to the subconcious mind, where you create according to desires, beliefs(like religion), and outer stimulation, you get a trip.

Since the mind also controls all of the bodily functions, it gets carried along in this current as well. This is what gives you the physical sensations you have when you trip.

Religious iconography(don't be lazy, look it up) figures prominately in both drug trips and mental illness like schizophrenia. As you see yourself as a seeker, this will always have a starring role in whatever drama unfolds for you while tripping.

When you can have a "God moment" without drugs, let me know. Until then, I've seen it all before. The fact that you expressed fear is a dead giveaway it wasn't the real thing.

Fear is something only the mind manufactures.


x

[RELAYER]

Thank's for the warm reception, xexon.
Obviously your sober God moments have
left you with nothing but divine love.
Peace. -

[xexon]

Love is what we were in the beginning. We are born from love. It is our true self.

The "Earth" is what we have attached to ourselves to. Out of a misdirected love. We touched the physical world tarbaby, and it touched back. Now your souls are covered with this stuff. It forms a cocoon of it's own creation around your now limited perception. "It" is all you can see anymore. It's who you think you are. This very moment.

I will tell you all that all that you know, is contained within the walls of this cocoon.

The divine connection comes from having pierced this cocoon, and seeing the much larger spaces beyond it. You have broken the spell of fascination you had on this world, and traded it for one of much greater perspective. You are now a citizen of two worlds. You are still in the body, and have that perspective, but you also now have a door that opens to the "kingdom"

All the charms of this world fall away like autumn leaves. All the wealth you've worked so hard for in regular life, becomes meaninless.

You now realize where the real wealth is.

It is access to it all, and have no desire for any of it. It now has limited value.

In realization of the self, it all becomes you. You are the God you seek. There is nothing apart from you anymore. You're just a leaf on the God tree. :)

Right now, you have awareness of a leaf. Wait until you have the awareness of the tree.

It will be the best ride of your previous life.



x

[RELAYER]

Well I must say that this was a much
warmer reply xexon.
And one with which I agree entirley.
I am very new with hatha yoga and I
am being taught how to practice it now.
And Im preparing for kriya.
I was simply suprised that someone of
your state would imply that I had no idea
what iconography is without getting to
know me first, at all.

[xexon]

Beware of my state. :)

People who have preconcieved notions of what "holy men" are supposed to be like, will often overlook the real ones in pursuit of their "ideal" one. Put Jesus in jeans and a t-shirt, watch people call him a hippy. People will see what they want to, according to their preconcieved notions. Put Jesus in robes, and watch people react.

The content has not changed, only the packaging has.

Remember, divinity expresses itself through human form, and it will always be colored by that form, that individual.

x

[hippie_chick666]

May I be allowed to speak, even though I am Buddhist by choice? I totally agree with what you say Xenon. That is what the Buddha preaches as well. You have just made the connection between two belief systems many miles apart, but still have the same central theme: Redemption lies within by breaking through the shell of the ego, tainted by the world. Love is and god is love and we are god. We don't see that because of the dust (or in some cases, dirt) in our eyes.

Let me go on about my god rant: God is everything that surrounds us. It is in the air that we breath, the earth that we step on, the water in our sink. We are all made up of god and what is god but love? We were created out of love, not in some manner described in the bible but a real process which includes evolution. I feel like I'm going in circles, and if you want, I will further describe my philosophy of love and god.

Sorry for intruding, Xenon, your posts were too good not to respond to. Thank you for your perspective on reality. I think you have had an awakened moment...

Peace and love

[RELAYER]

God is all that permeates physical existance, but surely there
is more to God than a self sustaining eternal substance?
Like multiple flames coming out from under a burner, it is
one flame projected in different spots. -

[hippie_chick666]

I believe that god is an energy, something that permeates everything but cannot be created or destroyed, just transferred into other forms...

peace and love

[xexon]

You are close.

Imagine God as the clay that creation is made from. Form changes, but not substance.

You have the identity of the form (your personal identity), but you are still made out of "God". To realize this connection is the goal of any spiritual path. To have both form and divine awareness, is to be a Christ.

A citizen of both worlds.


x

[hippie_chick666]

Right on! Sounds pretty good. I like your thinking...

Peace and love