Did Jesus or Paul found Christianity?

[Okiefreak]

Some critics of Christianity, notably Muslims, say that our religion should be called "Paulism" because of the changes that Saint Paul brought about in the original teachings of Jesus. Is the charge valid? What do you think about the contributions of Paul?

[Portalguy]

Christ Jesus of course. While Paul was instrumental in the spreading of the Gospels, to say he had more impact than Christ himself is absurd. I think if he would've swayed away from the original teachings of our Lord we would've seen an early rift of epic proportions.

[Hryhorii]

If you want to look at it from a historical standpoint, Jesus started the movement, which formed into a "christ cult" during the first century after his death and Paul helped spread and refine the christ cult into somethign more regognizable as the "Centrist" church of the 4th Century.

From a theological standpoint, the Christ founded the new religion and used Paul to spread it.

[Liroy]

What if jesus is Paul or the names are swapped,
cant tell, can you?
That's the problem with the bible, you dont know who wrote what and who is who anyway.

[Portalguy]

You can very well tell who was who in the Bible. Paul and Jesus were VERY different people.

[Hryhorii]

What if jesus is Paul or the names are swapped,
cant tell, can you?
That's the problem with the bible, you dont know who wrote what and who is who anyway.This is quite irrelevant anyways. We may not know the exact person who wrote the pseudo-Pauline epistles, or the gospels, but we do know the community and the time when they were writing (or at least we can make assumptions due to evidence found within the text). And with the clues found within the text we can see to what occasions the letters were written and try to apply that to our lives.

PS- If you read names, figureing out who is who is just about as easy as following along in a Dr Suess story.

[Distant Lover]

Christianity began as a Jewish sect. Following the crucifixion the first leader of the sect was Saint James. He was the next oldest brother of Jesus, the first Bishop of Jerusalem, and the possible author of the Epistle of St. James. St. James was an observant Jew who worshiped at the Temple of Jerusalem every day until his martyrdom shortly before the Jewish Uprising of 66 to 70 AD. Because of his Jewish piety Pharisees tried to save his life, but the Sadducees killed him.

If Saint Paul had not converted to Christianity, or if he had been martyred at the beginning of his ministry, Christianity would have remained a Jewish sect whose adherents would have obeyed the Law of Moses regarding circumcision, keeping kosher, and so on, but it would have existed.

Until the development of anesthesia and modern sanitation circumcision was a painful and dangerous operation for an adult. Thus a religion requiring circumcision for converts would have more difficulty gaining converts than would otherwise be the case. Insisting on kosher food made it difficult for observant Jews to dine with gentiles. By maintaining that gentile converts to Christianity did not need to submit to circumcision and the dietary laws of kosher, Saint Paul made it far easier for Christianity to spread among gentiles. Nevertheless, he did not found Christianity.

[Liroy]

How is that irrelevant to the entire faith?
You dont care who the son of god actually was? Interesting.

Peace.

[GuruLite]

Did Jesus or Paul found Christianity?

Paul. Jesus was Jewish.

:)

Peace, Love, Christ's Light, ya'll

[Hryhorii]

How is that irrelevant to the entire faith?
You dont care who the son of god actually was? Interesting.

Peace.
My "irrelevant" comment was directed at the statement you posted that implied that it is of utmost importance to know who wrote specific texts, but i say it is irrelevant because the message still exists...

[Liroy]

Exactly.
The messages, not the facts.

[daperfectmix]

there are no hidden messages in the Bible.. it's not here to trick you. it's all there in black and white. why do people try to change it with their interpretations to make it cater to their own beliefs?

[Hryhorii]

it's all there in black and white. Black and white?

1 Timothy 1:8
"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully." (NAS)

This translation is pretty well literal from the greek.

[tikoo]

jesus being so bright , i wonder he didn't write .
or maybe he's like me and just doodled in random
notebooks alot of anythingness unto obscure occasions ..
and too ,strange
equations .
all my books worthy of lostness .

[GuruLite]

there are no hidden messages in the Bible.. it's not here to trick you. it's all there in black and white. why do people try to change it with their interpretations to make it cater to their own beliefs?What's Revelations about then?

[Hryhorii]

What's Revelation about then?
there, that is better...

sorry for my editing

[GuruLite]

there, that is better...

sorry for my editingWow. I can't believe I did that. I'm usually more aware than that.

[SlydeHippie]

Paul founded Christianity, based on the teachings of Jesus.

My problem is, that the Bible makes Jesus' teachings as confusing as can be.

The Bible should just be 8 words long instead of wasting all that paper.

"Love all, and pursuit your own personal truths."

Peace and Love, John.

[MrRee]

If you remove the writings of Paul (aka Saul) from the NT, there aint much left, and the jesus words are few and far between.

PS ~ I'm ex-xtian

[SlydeHippie]

PS ~ I'm ex-xtianAs am I.

I could not find what I was looking for in Christianity. I've always seen the flaws in the religions, but because I felt the fear of Hell, I controlled myself. Well, I broke free, it's time to see what else is out there.

And boy let me tell you, I feel as if I've been living blind my whole life.

Take a loot at my sig fellas.

Peace and Love, John.

[Okiefreak]

If you remove the writings of Paul (aka Saul) from the NT, there aint much left, and the jesus words are few and far between.

PS ~ I'm ex-xtianWell, there are Acts, James,Jude,the four canonical gospels, Peter, Revelations, etc. That's not chopped liver.

[Hryhorii]

Hebrews as well.

What ius interesting is that many of the books do not fit the Nicean councils guidlines to make canon. Paul was far from catholic use, Hebrews has no clear apostolic authorship, Revelation was used be heretical groups and Jude was a relativly new invention...(BTW, the four criteria were universality, orthodoxy, long history and apostolic roots)

[themnax]

Did Jesus or Paul found Christianity?

neither! ultimately marry magdalane must be credited, for without her resurection of the spirits of christ's deciples, it would have died aborning.

what is called christianity today, is though, as much or more the perversions of saul of tarsus as anything to do with the will or teachings of the christ.

though i do understand and simpathise that most 'christians' do not seem to know or understand this.

=^^=
.../\...

[OlderWaterBrother]

I would have to say neither, it was God. If you believe that the Bible is the word of God then what is in the Bible is what God wants to be there. The Bible shows that it was God that put things in motion and directed the establishment of Christianity.

[Distant Lover]

“Christianity, at first was preached by Jews to Jews, as a reformed Judaism. Saint James, and to a lesser extend Saint Peter, wished it to remain no more than this, and they might have prevailed but for Saint Paul, who was determined to admit gentiles without demanding circumcision or submission to the Mosaic law. The contention between the two factions is related in the Acts of the Apostles, from a Pauline point of view. The communities of Christians that Saint Paul established in many places were, no doubt composed partly of converts from among the Jews, partly of gentiles seeking a new religion. The certainties of Judaism made it attractive in that age of dissolving faiths, but circumcision was an obstacle to the conversion of men. The ritual laws in regard to food were also inconvenient. These two obstacles, even if there had been no others, would have made it almost impossible for the Hebrew religion to become universal. Christianity, owing to Saint Paul, retained what was attractive in the doctrines of the Jews, without the features that gentiles found hardest to assimilate.”

- Bertrand Russell, “A History of Western Philosophy,” page 324

[It Has Been Said]

of course all things in the bible are put there by God. It is the inspired work of God. So, to me, God is the one who started Christianity..

[Zhyppers]

I'm sure that if Jesus would have had His way, Judaism ultimately would have changed. Jesus, unlike Christians today, observed the Passover and the other feasts. Jesus did plant the seeds to the new ideas and interpretation which ultimately lead to his death. Jesus said to spread the message that He taught, but Paul gave the idea that one should not be like Jesus in the sense that Jesus followed the law. He also set up the church in the Timothies. Without these acts, I would assume Christians would try to intermingle with the Jews and feel more persecution until someone else other than Paul would say something like "We need to get out of here because the Congregation doesn't like us too much."

It is for this reason that I believe Paul created Christianity and not Jesus. I would assume that Jesus would be the one to say "Intermingle with them because they need more help than anyone because they are persecuting people because of my message."