ANTIPRIDE (MERGEDWITH)Pride ParadesAre they helping or holding back the LGBT movement

[SelfControl]

Gay Pride irritates me far more than it probably should. Isn't being proud to be gay like being proud to be a security guard talking to a friend, or being proud of owning some adequate furniture?

I am gay, I just don't get it.

[PhotoGra1]

I basically agree with you. It seems rather pointless. The only benefit I see to it is it publicly displays the numbers of gays/lesbians. Many people don't realize how many homo's there are. The publicity that gay pride receives, however, is not at all how I would like to be portrayed. I don't even own a pair of butt-less chaps...

[SelfControl]

I doubt it'll still be on-line, but theonion.com ran a great article:

San Francisco Gay Pride Rally Sets Back Course Of Homosexual Rights 20 Years
Said one on looker: I used to think gay people were just like everyone else, but now I realised they're just a bunch of mincing leather clad perverts.

[Sunburst]

Gay pride is there just like black pride was: Straight, white people were never excluded from basic human rights, but gay people are left out of the rights of adoption, marriage, and other things in many places, so we're showing that they can exclude us but we're never going to give in and just "be normal" like all the homophobes out there who think it's wrong and sick. Lots of people call us those, and we're showing that we don't give a crap what they think.

[SelfControl]

Cool. But black pride nowadays scares the shit out of me. Is gay pride going to become a militant organisation in 20 years or so?

[rocknroll_girl]

Why does black pride "scare the shit out of you"?


The fact is, when you're in a definite minority, your history as a group runs deep. Particularly with homosexuality, there is such a past of shame, secrecy, and hiding that gay pride is a result of a lot of pent-up feelings. It's a positive reaction in the vein of "you can try to make me hide, but I'll shove it in your face." The "shoving" is a reaction to suppression.

I can't say I'm into a lot of the gay pride scene these days, but I still believe it's a positive thing for the community - when done tactfully. I think there's a place for full-out gay entertainment and culture, and that is within the community, but parades are absolutely fine as long as they're polite. In other words, no near-nudity and leather craziness. Then parents have a REASON to hide their kids' eyes.

[SelfControl]

Can't say I've ever seen a "polite" pride march. I certainly doubt anyone respect homosexuals as equals as a result of pride marches.

The black pride thing... I'm talking about people like the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers, there's no real need for that kind of militancy anymore, it's just when people have got as close to equal rights as they're going to get by what could be called "aggressive demonstration", and these groups have nothing to do. To me, it makes as much sense as white pride these days.

[SelfControl]

I just feel you do more for gay equal rights by being gay and not letting it change the rest of your life than you will trying to ram it in people's faces.

If you're sniggering at that last bit, you're part of the problem.

[SelfControl]

I was a little loathe to admit how "homophobic" I am, but in speaking to other gay people about this I've been finding out that a lot of us, and I do mean a lot, think that gay pride are at best ineffectual and at worst damaging to the course of gay rights. A lot of people do good work for this course, and it must be quite galling to spend yr life trying to dispel those stereotypes, only to then see thousands of them cavorting in the street on the evening news.

[HolyInkCartridge]

While I fully agree that the majority of gay pride parades are detrimental to the progress of gay rights and tolerance, any time I wear a pair of pants or skirt or anything that provides belt loops, I'm wearing my rainbow belt (actually a modified leash from the animal shelter), and I never remove my fat rainbow beaded hemp necklace.

I'm greatly of the opinion that exposure is vital to change. The more exposure the world gets to the fact that there are vegans out there, the less extreme and wierd veganism seems. The more exposure the world gets to technology, the more accepted and even vital it is to the world, even though techies were freaks only a couple decades ago.

The more exposure the world gets to rational, intelligent, industrious, <whatever attribute that person has> people wearing rainbow gear and just treating their sexuality as normal and okay, the more the world will realise that huge numbers of people are anything but heterosexual, and are not worse off for it.

That said, I honestly don't really have a sexuality. The closest thing to my sexuality is pansexual, and I tell people this only because it's easier to explain. So maybe I can't really directly represent gay pride anyways. ^_^;

[PhotoGra1]

I was a little loathe to admit how "homophobic" I am

This is very common among any minority group. I worked for 7 years with an all white staff, just by chance. The last two years the staff has become about half white, half black. My black collegues are very hard on other blacks, much more so than any white coworker. They get disgusted and very angry at blacks that they see as "ghetto." They feel that it pushes back all the civil rights progress that has occured for black people.

I am somewhat homophobic too, and I am gay. I never am homophobic with lesbians, however, only sometimes with extremely flamboyant, sterotypical gay guys. I realize, though, that it is my problem, and they really don't represent me or the gay community as a whole. It is something that I constantly struggle with, trying to get over it. It doesn't bother me nearly as much as it once did, but it is still there. I don't think that there is anything wrong with being flamboyant, etc. I really don't know why this is an issue for me.

Does this post make any sense?

[SelfControl]

See, to me the rainbow gear represents a concession to the idea of gayness as an "alternative lifestyle". That implies a choice. While I'm not going to claim I understand totally the origins of my sexuality, I know that I didn't choose it.

Vegans don't tend to embarass themselves in front of others with public displays of veganism, apart from when they say "No, really soya milk's great, you can hardly tell the difference".

And if it makes hating camp fags any easier, PhotoGra1, just remember that they probably think we're all boring and miserable. Knowing someone I dislike irrationally probably dislikes me generally takes the edge off.

Look, I'm not trying to dictate a lifestyle. People can mince about all they like. I just wish they would admit that they just like doing it, rather than pretend it's in the name of gay rights. Have a carnival if you like, but don't drag me into it by proxy.

[Duncan]

I disagree. I believe when a person or group of persons belongs to a faction of society, he or she should be allowed the right of self expression. All that the person is stating is, "I am who I am. I am different from you. I have no less right to exist than you. I deserve the same freedoms as you." In the hierarchy of need there is a place for safety and security, love and belongingness, esteem, and finally self-actualization.


I don't know if a parade is actually the perfect venue for self-expression, but when you think about it, it sometimes brings people out into the public eye who are normally withdrawn and inhibited. It also calls forth support from those who are not part of the sub-group, but consider the minority as an important part of their circle of friends or loved ones.

As with anything else there will be exploitation.

I don't agree with the notion that people have of equating being gay with being a security guard in a building. One is a vocation for which you receive wages while the other is the sum of the parts of what make you who you are.

We all express gay in different ways. Pride is one way in which we can make an attempt at displaying the mosaic rather than trying to blend in as one homogenous mixture of the melting pot.

[SelfControl]

All my views really are on this is that I don't see my sexuality as anything to be proud or ashamed of, hence the security guard thing; it's not some major achievement to be proud of, it's just what you do.

I know that in an ideal world, people would accept everyone, no matter how different they were. In reality, it would do more for gay equality if people thought that homosexuals were just like regular people than if they were "different". To be honest, homos aren't that different. Most of us want the same things as everyone else. Sure, there are exceptions - not much cottaging in the straight community - but most of them are born out of a culture of intolerance and inequity, and ideally would go away if gay equality existed.

I'm not saying everyone should agree with me on this. I know not everyone will. But that fact alone isn't going to change my mind. I just think people who think being gay makes them special and interesting should get over themselves because it's part of what makes gay rights a joke to most people.

[PhotoGra1]

I don't agree with the notion that people have of equating being gay with being a security guard in a building. One is a vocation for which you receive wages while the other is the sum of the parts of what make you who you are.

This is where me, and I think SelfControl, disagree with you. What we, or at least what I am saying is being gay is NOT the sum of the parts of what make you who you are. Being gay, to me, is only a small part in the sum of parts of what make me who I am.

Does that make sense? Do you see the differnce?

[Duncan]

This is where me, and I think SelfControl, disagree with you. What we, or at least what I am saying is being gay is NOT the sum of the parts of what make you who you are. Being gay, to me, is only a small part in the sum of parts of what make me who I am.

Does that make sense? Do you see the differnce?
It does makes sense. I do see the difference. I don't agree with that though. For me, being gay DOES make a difference in many ways. It affects whom I elect to represent me in office, it affects how I rate the performance of instructors based on whether or not I want their views in my face, it affects what I choose to have in my environment. In short, it is often times a gauge for many of my life's choices.

[SelfControl]

I agree with some of that, but I wouldn't want my sexuality to affect anything which does not directly involve it. I don't want to feel I have to dress or act a certain way because I'm gay, and I know a lot of people do feel that pressure, and do end up changing just to fit in. I've known guys change completely upon coming out, and not in a way where you'd think they're being themselves; they become what gay people feel they have to be in order to be gay.

[PhotoGra1]

being gay DOES make a difference in many ways. It affects whom I elect to represent me in office, it affects how I rate the performance of instructors based on whether or not I want their views in my face, it affects what I choose to have in my environment

Hmmm, I do see what you mean, but I never linked those decisions directly to my sexuality. I see how they are, though, I just never looked at it that way. I will have to think more about this...

[HolyInkCartridge]

"No, really soya milk's great, you can hardly tell the difference".
You definitely can tell the difference, but it IS great. I actually greatly prefer it to cow's milk. Yummy stuff!





This thread has encouraged me to analyse my rainbow gear much more, which is a good thing whether I choose to remove it or not. Ultimately, I doubt I will. If nothing else, it serves to show my support of gay rights, regardless of sexuality. I know a few straight allies that wear rainbow gear in support of gay rights. And people tote green party buttons, and fly Kerry/Edwards banners on their lawns. It's a political statement, again with the intent of exposure of the public to those who advocate a concept.

[SelfControl]

Goat's milk > soya milk. Soya milk tastes like it's gone off and has the consistency of water. Or UHT, if you prefer.

I've never worn a rainbow in my life, I just feel I do more for gay rights by being myself, most people get the idea that I'm a big fag anyway, and it's always mildly amusing when someone doesn't twig. But it's always been ok, I think people respect a gay who can drink well.

[txbarefooter]

I feel the "over the top" antics at pride parades does more harm to "gay rights" than does anything else. The anti-gay community sees this as what is the typical gay guy and really motivates them to prevent gay rights issues. That is their image of gays, not: doctors, lawyers, actors, professional sports stars .. "just a bunch of fruit cakes wearing next to nothing and acting really faggy".

[SageDreamer]

Maybe we'd be better served by Gay Awareness or Gay Understanding than Gay Pride?

[SelfControl]

Maybe we should all stop acting like a bunch of fucking fags and make homosexuality something to actually be proud of.

[SageDreamer]

When I see some of these guys camping it up and carrying on at a Gay Pride event or in a gay bar, I can't help but wonder--where are these people on every other day of the year? What do they do when they're not surrounded by hundreds or thousands of other gay people? If you don't dress/act/talk like that at other times, why do it at the bar or the Gay Pride event?

I don't feel any need to camp it up, and I don't feel like I'm suppressing anything.

Being gay isn't a matter of what you wear (or don't wear) or acting like Auntie Mame or stomping around in leather. It's a matter of who you fall in love (or lust) with. It doesn't necessarily make you more (or less) talented or affect your taste in music or drinks or any other thing.

What seems to frustrate some of us is that these events--and especially the TV coverage of such events, which is all that many people see--focuses on some of the more flamboyant people in attendance. These aren't people that make it easier for our families and friends to understand us and where we're coming from.

I blame the TV stations. You could have a million people who aren't particularly unusual to look at present at Gay Pride, but if only one of that million people is a man dressed up as Cher, guess who the cameras gravitate to?

[PhotoGra1]

Despite my previous posts on this subject, sometimes I wish fags had to wear some type of identifying mark, similar to the Jews in Nazi's Germany. It is so hard to tell who the fags are these days. Everyone looks so...gay.
;)

[SelfControl]

Maybe not HAVE to, but it would be useful for pretty much everyone if they did, wouldn't it. My mate wants to invent a genuine mechanical gaydar, for use in such situations.

The reason behind it is that straight fashion comes from gay fashion, which in turn comes from gay porn. So if you're in fashion now, you probably just look like a gay porn star from about 5 years ago.

[PhotoGra1]

Speaking of Gaydar, I have the worst one ever. For some reason, I think almost every guy is gay when I first meet them. Maybe we should brand "HOMO" into our foreheads. That would be a good convienence...

[SelfControl]

Branding homos: good for the phobes, good for the gays. Everyone's happy.

[txbarefooter]

a gay gay guy. :-)

[SlickyPants]

So, first I'd like to say that 2007 has been a year of firsts for me in terms of being open with my sexuality.

A few weeks ago I decided to march in Winnipeg's Pride Parade and I had a blast. It was great to see a huge diversity of people taking part in the event. One thing I noticed that you never see in the media is how 'ordinary' a lot of the people are. The media tends to only show the more eccentric attendees and it forgets about everyone else. I thought it was great to see families showing their pride and support. Mothers and fathers supporting their LGBT* son or daughter. One of my co-workers enjoying the parade with his partner. There wasn't one protester either! Apparently in previous years there have been protesters and it is good to see that my city's residents are becoming more and more tolerant.

Unfortunately, I didn't bring my camera because I was going somewhere afterwards and I didn't want to lug it around. I scoured the Internet for pictures of the parade and I managed to find two with me in them!

Click to enlarge
http://www.mts.net/%7Etaur42/ianpride1thumb.jpg (http://www.mts.net/%7Etaur42/ianpride1.jpg) http://www.mts.net/%7Etaur42/ianpride2thumb.jpg (http://www.mts.net/%7Etaur42/ianpride2.jpg)

Anyways, I just thought I'd share that with you. Now, on to the real point of this topic.

I've read a lot of debate about pride parades and whether or not they help or hinder the LGBT movement and I would like to discuss what others think of this.

Personally, I had a lot of fun. I think those that witnessed the parade first-hand had a great opportunity to see that we are all normal people. I worry though that the people who's only exposure to the parade were the local newspapers and TV stations, that they are being led to believe that the parade consisted of mostly people parading downtown in skimpy leather outfits or over-the-top costumes and thus making the assumption that LGBT people are all like that. Do I blame the eccentrics? No, not really. I blame the media for applying their typical slant and not reporting on the parade accurately. You could argue that crazyness attracts viewers but it's not like this kind of thing is big news. Just a simple local story that usually gets overshadowed by something bigger anyways so its not like it will destroy their ratings.

One other thing I guess to rant about. The skimpy outfits. I personally don't mind the outfits but it is a public place and there were a large number of younger people in the parade. Anywhere from infants in strollers to five year olds to younger teenagers to adults. Even though the skimpy costumes account for only a handful of people, I still think that maybe they should save those for the post-parade parties at the bars.

So all in all, I thought the parade was a lot of fun, it was good to see so many different people showing their pride, and there were a lot of cute guys. I think it is always a good thing to attend and represent yourself and others like you. The media is biased. Guys in leather jockstraps are hot but save it for the bar. That about sums it up.

Discuss

Ian

[*Andy*]

Wow thats really great! And I notice that in the first picture is a man (assumingly gay) with another man pushing a pram with a kid in it =]

I agree about what you say about the media. Before I saw the pictures, I immediately pictured a bunch of airy fairy gay dudes prancing about in pink leotards, but was pleasantly surprised. Like you said - it isn't the parade that contributes to the stereotypical gay image, but rather the way that the media portrays the event. Also, I agree that people shouldn't run around in skimpy outfits, but I guess that if they really want to, they should be allowed to. Seeing as there are so few of them as well, it hardly matters to have a little eccentric diversity among the crowd.

[Samhain]

for everything you wanted to know about gay pride but where afraid to ask!!!
http://www.hipforums.com/modules.php?name=Links&file=viewlinkinfo&lid=30&gid=0