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hippiestead
06-16-2007, 09:03 PM
This just in folks!!! There are 2 possible sites! Here are forwards from SP:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 17:06:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Stephen
> Subject: Re: Fwd: fee use area
> To: Garrick Beck
> CC: Tom Florich <tflorich@fs.fed.us (tflorich@fs.fed.us)>



No-

We have a usable site-

Hopefully, Tom and his team will get with v and crew
that will be in the specific area tomorrow afternoon-

I will ask him to notify Tom -even if premature- and
let him know what's up. Would not be out of way for
the Tree Frogs.

Some concern about Tree Pigs present at last walk
through-

They -leo's- can wait until resource have walled with
the folks-
I'm glad we do not have to argue about Cole Fork and
Rock Crk, and I'm not willing -but will- to argue
about McClellen-

It might have worked if it were still closed to the
public, and our presence would have served a benefit
to the land and clean-up blah, blah-

We have what will work nicely, and don't have to argue
about the containment pond referred to as lakes.


--- Garrick Beck wrote:

> this could get passed around,
>
> g
>
>
> --- Garrick Beck wrote:
>
> > this could get passed around,
> >
> > g
> >
> >
> > My inquiry:
> >
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > I have been in a discussion with a few of the
> scouts
> > for the Rainbow
> > about fee use areas. Also I had a very thorough
> > conversation (and set
> > of emails) with Supervisor Rose on the same topic.
> > Now, this late in
> > the process, scouts are re-asking me to re-visit
> > this question. I don't
> > know if this is realistic at all, but I am trying
> to
> > follow up on their
> > requests. Are there methods for working around or
> > within the fee
> > structure whereby a large user group could enter
> > people for free and
> > then do some in-kind trade of -- for example -
> > hazard tree or burnt
> > tree removal -- in exchange for entrance dues?
> >
> > I know this is a question from left field, but if
> > you could get me some
> > kind of feedback I'd be very appreciative.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Garrick Beck
> >
> > Tom Smeltzer's reply:
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: Tom G Smeltzer <tsmeltzer@fs.fed.us (tsmeltzer@fs.fed.us)>
> > > Date: June 15, 2007 3:58:57 PM MDT
> > > To: Garrick Beck
> > > Cc: nrose@fs.fed.us (nrose@fs.fed.us), jyondoh@fs.fed.us (jyondoh@fs.fed.us)
> > > Subject: Re: fee use area
> > >
> > > Mr. Beck,
> > >
> > > In earlier messages, Nancy Rose, Forest
> > Supervisor, made it clear she
> > > was not supportive of waiving fees for the use
> of
> > the developed
> > > recreation sites at Lake McClellan. Fees
> > generated on the site are
> > > the primary way services provided by the Forest
> > Service at Lake
> > > McClellan are paid for. Also she found that
> Lake
> > McClellan was
> > > unsuitable for a national gathering because of
> the
> > numerous safety
> > > issues at the site including hazard trees.
> Nancy
> > offered to review
> > > proposals to mitigate these hazards while
> stating
> > that professional
> > > and safety standards would have to be met. She
> > expressed her concerns
> > > about volunteers without appropriate training,
> > certification, and
> > > protective equipment being involved in dangerous
> > work such as hazard
> > > tree falling. Nancy also stated all parties
> > involved would need to
> > > agree to a detailed work plan. No proposals
> have
> > been received by the
> > > Forest Service. Any mitigation work would have
> to
> > had been completed
> > > before the National Gathering begins. Since
> > gatherers could arrive at
> > > Lake McClellan as early as next week, there is
> no
> > time left to develop
> > > and implement a hazard mitigation plan. The
> > Forest Service will not
> > > waive the developed site fees or authorize the
> > removal of hazard trees
> > > from the site. If you have additional questions
> > or concerns, feel
> > > free to contact me.
> > > *****************************************
> > > Tom Smeltzer
> > > District Ranger
> > > Black Kettle and McClellan Creek
> > > National Grasslands
> > > 580-497-2143 office
> > > *****************************************
> > >
> > > -----Garrick Beck wrote:
> -----
> > >
> > > To: tsmeltzer@fs.fed.us (tsmeltzer@fs.fed.us)
> > > From: Garrick Beck <garrick@nets.com (garrick@nets.com)>
> > > Date: 06/14/2007 07:45PM
> > > Subject: fee use area
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > I have been in a discussion with a few of the
> > scouts for the Rainbow
> > > about fee use areas. Also I had a very thorough
> > conversation (and set
> > > of emails) with Supervisor Rose on the same
> > topic. Now, this late in
> > > the process, scouts are re-asking me to re-visit
> > this question. I don't
> > > know if this is realistic at all, but I am
> trying
> > to follow up on their
> > > requests. Are there methods for working around
> or
> > within the fee
> > > structure whereby a large user group could enter
> > people for free and
> > > then do some in-kind trade of -- for example -
> > hazard tree or burnt
> > > tree removal -- in exchange for entrance dues?
> > >
> > > I know this is a question from left field, but
> if
> > you could get me some
> > > kind of feedback I'd be very appreciative.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Garrick Beck
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> Stephen
>
> "Let the truth be known and let no one hide what it
> is that is truly in
> their heart or where they are coming from in this
> time, now. Let all the People Know who we are and
> that we are sincere in our walk of Peace. We will
> not be denied the Peace and Love on this planet that
> is our destiny, it is coming to pass and all we need
> to do is accept this truth as the greatest truth of
> all." Coyote
>
> “Participants in an egalitarian peaceable assembly
> can not be forced to conform or structure themselves
> into an organization to suit bureaucratic
> convenience; that is, it is the people's government,
> not the government's people. I am a child of God,
> not a creature of the State! Natural and vested
> rights held by individuals cannot be lawfully
> annulled by the subterfuge of guilt by association,
> guilt by proximity, nor can such an annulment of
> rights be justified by any other sophistry
> whatsoever.” --Sanity Clause RE

hippiestead
06-16-2007, 09:07 PM
POST TWO-

--- Stephen wrote:

> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Stephen
> Subject: RE: Field Up-Date SITE INFO

> ,
> * 'Sailor' >, 'ARK'
> * 'ValArk'


>
> I am under the impression that everyone knows my
> position on McClellen. That is - When McClellen was


I am under the impression that everyone knows my
position on McClellen. That is - When McClellen was
closed because of rhe fire, our gathering there could
have been beneficial for the land. That was by
cleaning up "fire" wood, and the dispersal of water
and compost from kitchens etc.

Once the FS OPENED McClellen to the Public and
re-instituted their fee system I was no longer willing
to set precedents that could alter (read hinder)
Gathering, even jeopardize it for future generations.

Sailor knows McClellen is not the best of sites. It
was just the best yet found. He himself is out looking
for a better one.

This is not a contest- One scout is no right while
others are wrong.

I would hate to have to choose between Cole Fork and
McClellen-

They both present problems. Cole Forks problems are
both environmental as well as political and legal-

Going there could very well jeopardize our "POTENTIAL"
relationship with the Resource Tree Frogs and
permanently install the Tree Pigs in the bureaucratic
drivers seat.

McClellen could force us into contractual
relationships we are as unable to enter into as a
permit is.

The forest service, and in particular the enforcement
end, has requested we use developed group-use camping
areas, and even 'suggested' we charge for parking
(saying, "not for your protected 'expressive'
activity").

The only one who ever thought charging for parking was
a good idea was our brother who is now holding his own
regional over the 4th of July, claiming it is the new
strategy to spread FS-LEO resources out. Hell, it was
the LEOs who suggested we hold several smaller
gatherings so they could manage them better and not
harass us as much.

Go figure - But, the situation is extremely serious
and we can't be picking side or inflating our own egos
nor stroking those of others.

So, as both Sailor and Val have been runnig all over
God's Creation looking for a third alternative, WHO is
it that has a problem or is trying to promote 'people'
sides rather that "the best gathering site"?

OR, is it just questioning my (B4 Coffee) articulation
after several attempts at holding onto a phone
connection, starting the computers, useing the
necessary room, and trying to take notes. - if that's
it - OK - sorry

I am now going to make breakfast b4 its diner and news
time.

I'll ber off phone so call and bitch if it suits you,


--- CEB wrote:

> Thanks For the update Stephen -
>
> Also wanted to check on what you meant by :
>
> "He said that what Sailor said about useing one side
> of
> the creek at Cole Fork is true and if there is over
> 2000 people we will
> spill over into the other areas - so. I don't feel
> McClellen is an option-"
>
> It sounds as if you don't want McClellan because
> Cole Fork is a bad site --
> But they are two separate sites -- and don't
> influence each other...
> What do you mean by this?
>
> Catherine
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 9:12 AM
> To:
> Cc: CEBmrsSailor;; ; Sailor;
> ARK; ;
> ValArk
> Subject: Field Up-Date SITE INFO
>
> Val has found a location he says will work, but
> wants
> more time to look.
>
> He has gone back to camp and will give his rap. Then
> try and take some
>
> walkers back with him.
>
> The site is @ Fallsville to the south, Hwys 16 and
> 21.
> Northwest to Red
>
> Star and, again from Fallsville, northeast to
> Mossville.
>
> It is the headwaters of the Buffalo River before you
> enter the wilderness
>
> scenic river area. Actually a ways south but...
>
> He wants feedback, so I'm sending this. Will send
> photos and topos with
>
> or later depending on how computer works today.
>
> He said that what Sailor said about useing one side
> of
> the creek at Cole
>
> Fork is true and if there is over 2000 people we
> will
> spill over into the
>
> other areas - so. I don't feel McClellen is an
> option-
>
> Val can recieve phone messages while traveling, will
> try and check every
>
> half hour. If I am wanted on the phone and line is
> busy, send email I'll
>
> clear line-
>
> USGS Fallsville (AR) Arkansas Topo *- - - Baffalo
> Crk
> Baffalo River
>
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=35.83293&lon=-93.45719&size=l&symshow
>
> =n&u=6&datum=nad27&layer=DRG
> 35° 49' 58"N, 93° 27' 26"W (NAD27)
>
> Two West Lovell Hollow
> 35° 49' 58"N, 93° 29' 27"W * - - - Main Prong Big
> Buffalo Crk - Nuckles
>
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=35.83279&lon=-93.49093&size=l&symshow
>
> =n&u=6&datum=nad27&layer=DRG
>
>
> One More West *- - Mulberry Crk - Prong Big Buffalo
> Crk - Hwy 16
> USGS Boston (AR) Arkansas Topo
>
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=35.83265&lon=-93.52468&size=l&symshow
>
> =n&u=6&datum=nad27&layer=DRG
> 35° 49' 58"N, 93° 31' 29"W (NAD27
> USGS Boston (AR) Arkansas - - West Lookout Tower *-
> -
> - - *RED STAR -
>
> MADISON -NEWTON CO LINE MainProngBgB
>
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=35.85326&lon=-93.52481&size=l&symshow
>
> =n&u=6&datum=nad27&layer=DRG
> 35° 51' 12"N, 93° 31' 29"W
>
> Photos-
>
> The Red Drop on the top right, in the Headh2o
> Buffalo
> photo, is the
>
> forest boundry where the wilderness starts at
> Mossville. The one on the
>
> left with the star is the community of Red Star,
>
> The Blue Drop with a star in the foreground is
> Fallsville. Your entrance
>
> road is the Green Drop with a diamond fs-1463.
>
> FS 1463 takes you into the bottom and the river.
>
> Wastside entrance has a Green Drop with a circle.
> This
> field that this
>
> road lead into could be private or habitat. I have
> no
> way of knowing, but
>
> cannot find either structure or vehicle. someone in
> Fallsville should
>
> know. It is .23mls wide at the lower end and, 27 at
> the upper, and .49
>
> long measuring thru the trees.
>
>
>
> #1 Headh2o Buffalo
>
> #2 between 16 and 21 is 2.40mls
>
> #3 hear it is over 8mls
>
> #4 Field end road west RedHill sideLookingSOUTH SE
>
> #5 Looking S into canyon whereCrks BcomeRiver
>
> #6 Red 10 Forest Boundry BuffaloRiverWilderness is
> where photo is taken looking south.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Stephen
>
> "Let the truth be known and let no one hide what it
> is that is truly in
> their heart or where they are coming from in this
> time, now. *Let all the
> People Know who we are and that we are sincere in
> our walk of Peace. *We
> will not be denied the Peace and Love on this planet
> that is our destiny, it
> is coming to pass and all we need to do is accept
> this truth as the greatest
> truth of all." *Coyote
>
> “Participants in an egalitarian peaceable assembly
> can not be forced to
> conform or structure themselves into an organization
> to suit bureaucratic
> convenience; that is, it is the people's government,
> not the government's
> people. *I am a child of God, not a creature of the
> State! * Natural and
> vested rights held by individuals cannot be lawfully
> annulled by the
> subterfuge of guilt by association, guilt by
> proximity, nor can such an
> annulment of rights be justified by any other
> sophistry whatsoever.”
> --Sanity Clause RE
>
>


Stephen

"Let the truth be known and let no one hide what it is that is truly in
their heart or where they are coming from in this time, now. *Let all the People Know who we are and that we are sincere in our walk of Peace. *We will not be denied the Peace and Love on this planet that is our destiny, it is coming to pass and all we need to do is accept this truth as the greatest truth of all." *Coyote

“Participants in an egalitarian peaceable assembly can not be forced to conform or structure themselves into an organization to suit bureaucratic convenience; that is, it is the people's government, not the government's people. *I am a child of God, not a creature of the State! * Natural and vested rights held by individuals cannot be lawfully annulled by the subterfuge of guilt by association, guilt by proximity, nor can such an annulment of rights be justified by any other sophistry whatsoever.” * --Sanity Clause RE

hippiestead
06-16-2007, 09:14 PM
edited....I forgot to ask if info could be reposted from CALM. My apologies, I'm new at this.