Existentialism is false hope..

[edyb123]

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

it is just the same as religious people who create their own purpose in the form of a god... absolutley pointles...

it seems that existentialism is the long route to nihilism..
it simply tries desperatley to create meaning.. and get rid of anxst.. but in the end it fails.. and we are always left with nihilism...

[mortes]

existentialism seems way different to me. I don't want to argue, but my interpretation is quite unlike yours.

[edyb123]

thats cool,
im not sure how mainstream of a view mine is.. but its what i have taken from various books etc..

[alex714]

....Go run into a knife then.

[edyb123]

ahh, very funny..
nihilism doesn't necessarily lead to self harm, suicide or crazy killing sprees...

'oh, i know. lets be ignorant of the truth and pretend there is hope in the world!'

pffft

[WhisperingWoods]

There doesn't have to be hope, there doesn't have to be any answer for all of humanity, either. My answer is: I'm here to find happiness and enjoy life, but I have reasoning for that. It's not some magical shit that doesn't exist, and I wouldn't call it pointless. Plus, it's important to have goals, right? I don't make the assumption that you or anyone else has any special goals, hopes, or ambitions of any kind, besides staying alive. Everyone internalizes their own goals.

I observe that there is nothing more to my life than what I see, as it has not presented itself; but who cares, anyway? Even with philosophy, we can't know all the answers. Let's not worry about it. We're here, drink beer, get used to it.

[mortes]

I'll drink a beer with ya

[Hope_B]

i don't think it's false hope ..it gives our life some meaning ... the false hope will b if we "" DON'T HAVE ANY HOPE " in our own life

[TresBizzare420]

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

it is just the same as religious people who create their own purpose in the form of a god... absolutley pointles...

it seems that existentialism is the long route to nihilism..
it simply tries desperatley to create meaning.. and get rid of anxst.. but in the end it fails.. and we are always left with nihilism...
What is then keeping you alive? If there is no hope, there is no need for life.

People create their own meaning and it keeps them going.
The meaning which people create may not be the truth necessarily on the greater scale. On the smaller scale, how can meaning for someone be false if it ment something to that particular individual. The only way that individual will be remembered is by the way he or she treats other people.

[edyb123]

hope.. means nothing if it is not based on reason..

you say it can mean something to the individual.. yes - but for it to be real hope they must have made a mistake when reasoning because there is no reason/knowledge in the world (from a nihilistic view- which i mentioed at the begining) and therefore the supossedly 'real' hope is in fact false hope.. because it is based on false reason

you mentioned something about being remembered for how we treat people...
this seems irelivant.. since once we are dead.. anything is irelivant..
if you must live for something.. live for today rather than how you will impact the future after your death.. because u won't be alive and so its not as though youll feel good for helping society or something..

and you ask me what is keeping me alive..

i havent got any motive to kill myself for a start.. denial of reason to live doesn't = lack of ability to live..

also.. im young and still exploring ideas.. and finding out what is true in the world.. so i am open to other opinions.. and not completely set upon the idea of nihilism.. although it seems the most logical to me now..

this makes me sound like a really dull depressing person hah.. im not http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/newsmilies/sifone.gif

[White Feather]

existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... To me, existentialism means that I put more weight into what I have experienced than believing something I am told. Existentialism then is purely subjective versus looking at the world solely objectively.

As for Nihilism, its bleak outlook on life caused me depression to no end; everything became meaningless. You mention "truth". Exactly what truth is there in Nihilism? As far as logic goes, its a crock - a logical argument can be constructed to prove that you do not exist. For example:

1] Only objective reality exists. If it can not be measured, weighed, filed, indexed, folded, stapled then it does not exist.
2] Consciousness is not objective, consciousness is subjective; one cannot point to where in the brain it resides, nor can one differentiate between the consciousness of one person and compare it to the consciousness of another person.
3] Ergo, you do not exist.

The same type of twisted logic can be applied to Nihilsm, with the result being that one loses all meaning of life.

[TresBizzare420]

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

it is just the same as religious people who create their own purpose in the form of a god... absolutley pointles...

it seems that existentialism is the long route to nihilism..

it simply tries desperatley to create meaning.. and get rid of anxst.. but in the end it fails.. and we are always left with nihilism...

hope.. means nothing if it is not based on reason..

you say it can mean something to the individual.. yes - but for it to be real hope they must have made a mistake when reasoning because there is no reason/knowledge in the world (from a nihilistic view- which i mentioed at the begining) and therefore the supossedly 'real' hope is in fact false hope.. because it is based on false reason

you mentioned something about being remembered for how we treat people...

this seems irelivant.. since once we are dead.. anything is irelivant..

if you must live for something.. live for today rather than how you will impact the future after your death.. because u won't be alive and so its not as though youll feel good for helping society or something..

and you ask me what is keeping me alive..

i havent got any motive to kill myself for a start.. denial of reason to live doesn't = lack of ability to live..

also.. im young and still exploring ideas.. and finding out what is true in the world.. so i am open to other opinions.. and not completely set upon the idea of nihilism.. although it seems the most logical to me now..

this makes me sound like a really dull depressing person hah.. im not

Don’t take this as an attack on you because this is has nothing to do with your person. I’m trying to understand your point on this philosophy and am left dangling on some points.

Correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t your first sentence contradict itself? Existentialism has the right idea; however it strays from the truth, nihilism, by trying to create false hope. The contradiction in this statement seems to come from the fact that if it is really nihilism then nothing matters in the end. If nothing matters in the end, what is this existent truth when no reason or logic exists in the world?

If reason does not exist under nihilism, hope cannot come from reason in order to be valid because reason does not exist.

We may not have any “real” purpose in life. Once we die, that’s it. Our bodies will be come dust. At that point, nothing we ever did will matter to us anymore. In this external world, there are other people around us. Our death will be meaningful to the people who cared about us. Our lives do effect other people’s lives.

How can you say that the effect we had on other people’s life is meaningless if it was meaningful to the people we knew? Only when the last thinking mind on the planet dies will anything reason ever stood for be completely lost.

Because we are alive and most of us wish to keep on living, this is proof that we still have goals. Our goals enable us to create some kind of purpose for while we are still alive. It does not matter in the long run who we were or what we did. Unless we destroy or this planet is destroyed, meaning will never be completely lost because someone will always be able to find some meaning out of nothingness because someone will always exist.

If we are alive we do seem to have a purpose. It seems that purpose is to survive through each day. We are not going to be alive forever; but perhaps because we exist, maybe we should try to stay alive?

Unless something really drastic happens we are never going to all cease existing at the same time. As unlikely as it would seen for all of existence to be wiped out over night; we should perhaps try to find some meaning in something. Life without meanin seems to be non exist. If we do not have a set purpose in life, at least if we create a purpose of our own, perhaps it may be a step up above nothing.

Whether or not a person has meaning in the long run is irrelevant to the now. Unless a person finds a purpose in the short term period, it would seem that he or she is already partially dead.

Because you do not have the motive to kill yourself, you got something. Because you want to explore ideas and find truth, you are finding meaning in something. Remember, if there is nothing, there is no truth. Because you are alive, you still have not lost all hope that there may be some truth out there in that vast of nothingness.

Stay strong and stay well. Peace to you.

There doesn't have to be hope, there doesn't have to be any answer for all of humanity, either. My answer is: I'm here to find happiness and enjoy life, but I have reasoning for that. It's not some magical shit that doesn't exist, and I wouldn't call it pointless. Plus, it's important to have goals, right? I don't make the assumption that you or anyone else has any special goals, hopes, or ambitions of any kind, besides staying alive. Everyone internalizes their own goals.

I observe that there is nothing more to my life than what I see, as it has not presented itself; but who cares, anyway? Even with philosophy, we can't know all the answers. Let's not worry about it. We're here, drink beer, get used to it.

:cheers:

[heywood floyd]

Ummm... I think that nihilism is actually a form of existentialism... like a subcategory.

And I don't think that it's about CREATING meaning... more about FINDING meaning. It's more about recognizing that we are FREE to discover whatever the world around us holds.

So as far as I can tell, the point of it is, in a nutshell, that meaning can't be created... only discovered.

[Okiefreak]

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...
...I think of myself as an existentialist, but I don't really know or care whether Sartre or any of those other dudes would approve. I'm kind of a middle of the road country boy Okie existentialist (lol). What I mean is that I don't know the answers to the Big Questions in life with any confidence: is there really a God? does my life have an ultimate purpose? Is there an afterlife? But that's the way it is. A lot of the people I know are satisfied with the answers supplied by religion or society, and some don't even seem to think it's worth asking the questions--they just go about their routines from day to day. So what do I do? I chose a course that is meaningful to me. I find everyday existence pretty fascinating and intense, and I like people. One of my problems with churchified Christianity is that it seems to view life as cut and dried, with all the answers pre-ordained, rather than an exciting day-to-day adventure of making my way in a scary, beautiful universe. The path I've chosen is an offbeat, gerrymandered version of Christian humanism that I re-examine and revise as I go along--accepting the risk that at the end of the road there could at best be nothing and at worst eternal suffering for making the wrong choice. There could be heaven, too, I guess, but that's not a big motivator for me. Anyhow, welcome to the club.

[edyb123]

tresbizzare : u seem to speak alot of truth.. but im too lazy to quote and explain my argument with relation to all that text :/ sorry lol

I think of myself as an existentialist, but I don't really know or care whether Sartre or any of those other dudes would approve. I'm kind of a middle of the road country boy Okie existentialist (lol). What I mean is that I don't know the answers to the Big Questions in life with any confidence: is there really a God? does my life have an ultimate purpose? Is there an afterlife? But that's the way it is. A lot of the people I know are satisfied with the answers supplied by religion or society, and some don't even seem to think it's worth asking the questions--they just go about their routines from day to day. So what do I do? I chose a course that is meaningful to me. I find everyday existence pretty fascinating and intense, and I like people. One of my problems with churchified Christianity is that it seems to view life as cut and dried, with all the answers pre-ordained, rather than an exciting day-to-day adventure of making my way in a scary, beautiful universe. The path I've chosen is an offbeat, gerrymandered version of Christian humanism that I re-examine and revise as I go along--accepting the risk that at the end of the road there could at best be nothing and at worst eternal suffering for making the wrong choice. There could be heaven, too, I guess, but that's not a big motivator for me. Anyhow, welcome to the club.You seem to think the same as i.. that passage pretty much somes up how i go about things..i think existentialism is just.. a life of experience but never discovery.. we go about our lives.. experience new and different things.. but never actualy find any answers.

[Eugene]

I don't think that some purpose or meaning was ascribed to me by some higher power. my life is, at it's natural state, meaningless.
however, where some see emptiness, i see infinite potential.
I can ascribe whatever meaning or purpose i see fit to my life, and apply that in any way i choose.

meanings a kindof human concept, we give everything meaning, sometimes quite erroniously (the constellations dont guide your lives on earth).
Take words, they are inheriently meaningless flucuations in air pressure, but once humans give them meaning, they have power.

[ExpansiveThought]

If existentialism's main point is the importance of acting morally and being true to ones own Will, then isnt spirituality (NOT ORGANIZED RELIGION FOR FUCK"S SAKE) just existentialism plus the spirit and God? In my opinion the two can jive together as long we aren't gonna be dogmatic about either.

[TerminallyChill]

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

it is just the same as religious people who create their own purpose in the form of a god... absolutley pointles...

it seems that existentialism is the long route to nihilism..
it simply tries desperatley to create meaning.. and get rid of anxst.. but in the end it fails.. and we are always left with nihilism...I think this 'created meaning' is inherently tied to the notion that reality is defined solely by human perception. At the most fundamental level, existentialists believe simply in the power of human existence; existence itself is the end, rather than being the means to some greater end like an afterlife.

But since our human existences are the only realities available to us, they are indeed quite real, regardless of their insignificance in the 'big picture.' Thus if one perceives some sort of underlying purpose to existence, that purpose exists. And who's to say it doesn't? Whether one lives for love, for power, or simply for the joy of living, that underlying goal is ever present in the reality of one's existence, the only true reality. Thus those goals are by extension real as well, distinguising existentialism from nihilism, which makes no provision for a reality defined by individual existence.

[Fallout55]

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

Not true, if in your eyes something matters how can it not?

In the large scale of everything, my personal "purpose" may be miniscule but to me its all that matters. So if I can keep in tune with my purpose, I won't need hope I'll have something much more real.

I personaly think we were enginered, by what ever made us, be it god or evolution to find reasons to live, and spread our race. I think we are in a sense tricked to carry on and raise more humans to do the same. I think we are more of a mold or cancer than an animal. Nothing is quite like us.

[Okiefreak]

I think this 'created meaning' is inherently tied to the notion that reality is defined solely by human perception. Doesn't existentialism say reality is defined soley by human choice--at least among two or more possible perceptions of reality? We have to choose in the face of uncertainty,realize we are choosing, act upon our choices, and accept responsibility for our choices and actions. We define ourselves by our choices. I can remember as a kid asking my mother why I was here. She gave me the chatechism answer:to love and serve God and be happy with Him in heaven. I accepted it uncritically. She and my church defined my essence. I was not an existentialist. Later I came to have doubts, and made a new commitment--fully realizing that I was making a choice and taking a major risk that I could be wrong about what I was betting my life on. I think of myself now as being an existentialist.

[thumontico]

reality really aint that bleak: you gotcher personal connection with nature, sex, weed, alcohol, good health, shit load of entertaining things to do, potential to hone your skills, and a lifetime (most the time) to do it.

you gotta narrow what it takes for you to be happy. accept oblivion, its not so bad if you take your head out of your own ass. and also, shit happens, but you gotta deal.

[Jow]

When reading Camus, I followed his thinking all the way up to the question of "why not commit suicide".

It's like he had to quickly invent a get-out clause in order to stop himself appearing hypocritical by not actually killing himself.

I think the original question is a good one, and it seemed to me that he didn't have the guts to follow the logic through to it's inevitable conclusion.

I agree with the 'false hope' statement.

[shakemytrees]

What is then keeping you alive? If there is no hope, there is no need for life.

People create their own meaning and it keeps them going.
The meaning which people create may not be the truth necessarily on the greater scale. On the smaller scale, how can meaning for someone be false if it ment something to that particular individual. The only way that individual will be remembered is by the way he or she treats other people.Pseudointellectual?

[TresBizzare420]

Pseudointellectual?
How am I being dishonest? If I lack the understanding of my point of view please correct me.

[DroneLore]

Purpose is subjective. Individuals can choose their own purpose by which to live. That's just a fancy way of saying that people will find things they want to do, and do them. There is no collective purpose; none at all. There is only individual's goal and ambitions, which may or may not be realize. Choosing a life of idleness as a result of nihilism is no less valid than devoting one's life to the pursuit of knowledge, or to the creation of literature or music. Similarly, none of those pursuits are any less valid than idleness.

[DroneLore]

Also, for the people saying their own aspirations may appear minuscule in a "grander context": EVERYTHING IS MINUSCULE. In some respects, I am a nihilist. But the one tenet on nihilism that I simply do not buy is the doctrine that there is no objective truth. How can there not be? Isn't to say that objective truth does not exist a truth in and of itself? It's more accurate to say that I'm a relativist. Nothing REALLY matters, but who cares? My outlooks fluctuates from pessimistic to optimistic; hedonistic to altruistic; stoic to ...the opposite of stoic. It all depends on my mood. All that matters is that I'm satisfied with my life as it is, enjoy what I've done already, and look forward to what is left to be done.

[praxiskepsis]

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

it is just the same as religious people who create their own purpose in the form of a god... absolutley pointles...

it seems that existentialism is the long route to nihilism..
it simply tries desperatley to create meaning.. and get rid of anxst.. but in the end it fails.. and we are always left with nihilism...I really don't like the label existentialism --- all of the above ideas existed in ancient Greece (Sextus Empiricus, etc.).

Well, I think there is a difference between ultimate ends and practical/limited ends. Again, I don't know what you call existentialism, but I personally think it is essential to have practical goals/ends with the purpose of continued engagement and inquiry. Despite the fact that those practical ends won't survive the test of time. My intention is to keep playing the game, paradoxically.

That is what some people we call existentialists call "created meaning." It's a personal meaning. Not a universality.

Work has personal meaning for me. It leaves me fulfilled: not because it will grant me heaven or utopia, but in-itself work holds personal value for me.

That would be my beef with hedonism/Epicureanism, cynicism, sophism, pessimism/nihilism...whatever you want to call it. It doesn't recognize value in engaging adversity.

P.S. What I'm saying is not some kind of "truth." Rather, it's a matter of taste: a life of engagement is to me more 'tasteful' than one of self-indulgent nihilistic withdrawal.

[soundsystem]

*Huge round of applause to this post!*





Don’t take this as an attack on you because this is has nothing to do with your person. I’m trying to understand your point on this philosophy and am left dangling on some points.

Correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t your first sentence contradict itself? Existentialism has the right idea; however it strays from the truth, nihilism, by trying to create false hope. The contradiction in this statement seems to come from the fact that if it is really nihilism then nothing matters in the end. If nothing matters in the end, what is this existent truth when no reason or logic exists in the world?

If reason does not exist under nihilism, hope cannot come from reason in order to be valid because reason does not exist.

We may not have any “real” purpose in life. Once we die, that’s it. Our bodies will be come dust. At that point, nothing we ever did will matter to us anymore. In this external world, there are other people around us. Our death will be meaningful to the people who cared about us. Our lives do effect other people’s lives.

How can you say that the effect we had on other people’s life is meaningless if it was meaningful to the people we knew? Only when the last thinking mind on the planet dies will anything reason ever stood for be completely lost.

Because we are alive and most of us wish to keep on living, this is proof that we still have goals. Our goals enable us to create some kind of purpose for while we are still alive. It does not matter in the long run who we were or what we did. Unless we destroy or this planet is destroyed, meaning will never be completely lost because someone will always be able to find some meaning out of nothingness because someone will always exist.

If we are alive we do seem to have a purpose. It seems that purpose is to survive through each day. We are not going to be alive forever; but perhaps because we exist, maybe we should try to stay alive?

Unless something really drastic happens we are never going to all cease existing at the same time. As unlikely as it would seen for all of existence to be wiped out over night; we should perhaps try to find some meaning in something. Life without meanin seems to be non exist. If we do not have a set purpose in life, at least if we create a purpose of our own, perhaps it may be a step up above nothing.

Whether or not a person has meaning in the long run is irrelevant to the now. Unless a person finds a purpose in the short term period, it would seem that he or she is already partially dead.

Because you do not have the motive to kill yourself, you got something. Because you want to explore ideas and find truth, you are finding meaning in something. Remember, if there is nothing, there is no truth. Because you are alive, you still have not lost all hope that there may be some truth out there in that vast of nothingness.

Stay strong and stay well. Peace to you.



:cheers:

[soundsystem]

tresbizzare : u seem to speak alot of truth.. but im too lazy to quote and explain my argument with relation to all that text :/ sorry lolYou're too lazy to explain you argument? What kind of philosopher are you, why even bother posting here in the first place if you can't even be bothered to properly explain your argument??

You seem to think the same as i.. that passage pretty much somes up how i go about things..i think existentialism is just.. a life of experience but never discovery.. we go about our lives.. experience new and different things.. but never actualy find any answers.Of course we never find any answers! There is no absolute Truth with a capital T. There may be no ultimate value, no ultimate purpose to our existences, but very clearly you can either be a miserable bastard or you can enjoy life, in all its imperfect, suffering-filled, miserableness, and learn to focus your energies, however ultimately pointless they may be, on the things that really matter to you. For me existentialism is about not being depressed and anxious and worrying about petty small shit like money, whether you have a good job or are being a good responsible citizen (which these days means having a sweet job and contributing to the economy); taking responsibility for your own life and aiming to do something 'worthwhile' with it (by your OWN standards!) even if it does ultimately add up to nothing. And as others on this thread have made clear, it doesn't add up to nothing if it has an impact, no matter how small, on how others think and lead their lives, which I don't think anyone could deny it does!

We exist, and experience all this shit. Even if it means nothing, even if it can never be made sense of, we EXPERIENCE it. And we can experience it miserably, or pleasurably, which are you gonna choose??

[paradoxzoo]

-Nihilism says there is no meaning to life, whatsoever.
-Existentialism says there being no INHERENT, OBJECTIVE meaning to life. Your life is self-defined and therefore any purpose(or the word you use, "hope") is subjective.

The key difference between the two is whether a person is to be held responsible for what they've done. I see the two as polar perspectives on the same theory rather than polar theories.

edyb, it seems you're only highlighting the one solid thing that makes it different from your belief, nihilism. Instead of saying "existentialism gives false hope" you might as well say "existentialism is false." So I think this topic is, fittingly enough, meaningless. Because if you're just looking for people to prove existentialism as true or not true, I think you're far better off reading a book than posting here.

I'm not a scholar of philosophy but it's my understanding that there's alot of argument over exactly what some of these beliefs really are, so these opinions are largely based on my own viewpoint and are not reflective of every thinker.

[def zeppelin]

No.

[tikoo]

well , the anti-anything no seems about finest original opinion a person will ever have . congratulations on that achievement . oh . context . i forget about exclusive context and tumble in apology .

yes .

to concur implies shared , intersected existence . isolation will kill you , and so intersected existence remains true . a fluid motion of mind is neccessity . life is motion . life motion defeats entropy even as it eats here and shits there , even more as life creates a wild light .

ultimately , light conserves space .

[praxiskepsis]

well , the anti-anything no seems about finest original opinion a person will ever have . congratulations on that achievement . oh . context . i forget about exclusive context and tumble in apology .

yes .

to concur implies shared , intersected existence . isolation will kill you , and so intersected existence remains true . a fluid motion of mind is neccessity . life is motion . life motion defeats entropy even as it eats here and shits there , even more as life creates a wild light .

ultimately , light conserves space .lovely post! Really, I like it!

[tikoo]

i've seen that wild light - it's trippy - more colors than i knew were real . i would think only to be a lover of existence . in theory , the All of it .

[Okiefreak]

I'm just a poor dumb oklahoma country dude, but existentialism is about choice and risk. There is no way that intellecutal argument or posturing can settle a debate between nihilism and existentialism. How can anyone know that hope is "false", except after the fact--at which point we may still not know, and it certainly won't matter? By going for the "hope" option, what more attractive options are we foreclosing? The satisfaction of revelling in life's meaninglessness? When we bet on a horse in a race an it finishes last, I guess one way of describing that is that we had "false hope". Another way is to say that we aren't clairvoyant, and it seemed like a good bet at the time. But in the absence of clairvoyance, the alternative to the bet would seem to be to stay home and play UNO with grandma, and what fun is that? I can't understand why anyone would opt for nihilism, how it can be considered a purer or more authentic postion, or why that would matter, but whatever floats your boat!

[Meretrix]

-Nihilism says there is no meaning to life, whatsoever.
-Existentialism says there being no INHERENT, OBJECTIVE meaning to life. Your life is self-defined and therefore any purpose(or the word you use, "hope") is subjective.I am sorry, but I must correct you here. A modern nihilist does NOT say there is no meaning to life, the defenition is being redefined with things such as the American Nihilist Underground Society; nihilism is about redefining life according to yourself, shutting out society in your own values, and living to how YOU want, not the society in which we live in, very much like existentialism.

Also existentialism is not false hope, but rather more reliant on yourself than anything. YOU must make the hope and without yourself, there is nothing. As you are the only thing that you can be positive exists and be sure of.

As Descartes said "I think, thefore I am."

[themnax]

somehow i always thought existentialism was detatchment from any emotional need either to feel hope, nor to dispair at the lack of it.

essentially that the alpha, omega and essence of existentialism IS detatchment.

so if it is detatchment from neither an emotional need for hope, nor dispair at the lack of it, how can it be a false hope? how can something be a "false" hope, if it doesn't claim to be a hope of any kind at all?

=^^=
.../\...

[ElleDLux]

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

it is just the same as religious people who create their own purpose in the form of a god... absolutley pointles...

it seems that existentialism is the long route to nihilism..
it simply tries desperatley to create meaning.. and get rid of anxst.. but in the end it fails.. and we are always left with nihilism...
Or maybe it's that nihilism is the long route to existentialism.

Also... Saying that "the essence of our life is to give our life essence" is a buffer for "We have no set purpose or meaning."....

Accepting that there is nothingness or nonexistence is a long depressing process...

Giving up the idea that we have a purpose or are more than nothing is like throwing up a white flag and surrendering all hope that we might ever amount to anything.

Think of it in the stages of grief...

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance...

Different people get stuck in different stages... ignorant people in denial. nihilists in anger or depresson... and I believe that existentialists have come to accept that we have no purpose and no hope.. but realize that our experience is ours to embrace.. and do so....

Existentialism is the final stage of nihilism?

[floydianvolmes]

Existentialism can lead to many things. It accepts the truths of nihilism and it used as a beacon to guide us into a new path from those that we've been traveling on (religion, etc).
So basically where does it lead, it can lead to us creating a meaning for ourselves which can either be destruction (by fracturing apart, possibly killing ourselves through war, etc) or becoming the god that most of society used to believe in (through technology, thorough understanding of our own nature and how it relates to the things around it).

[famewalk]

War is the meaning of atheticism for the new kibitzers

[famewalk]

Let's end this blood feuding, more so even this concept that my blooded supervision of fatherhood gets more attention then the supervision from the work. That's the place of the bottom line, the final requested source for 'the death of the family'.

We thereby understand the means of communication are beyond sex, beyond relations for anything but the conventional LOOK of love. We understand that talking to someone privately involves the slight of pretence: he is as good as my blood parent, and I'm as cool as the :cool: man you thought I was for the cause.

My dad never understood my causes. My real cause :( was to shoot an elephant. as good a reason to make love.