The Soul

[FreakerSoup]

The soul is a fundamental ingredient for just about every religion, but the whole concept is surrounded by myth and mysticism. Most people's belief in a soul is based solely (haha!) on an emotional reaction to the prospect of death and/or human conciousness. So...

I believe there is no soul, and that a human being is the sum of his/her parts, and conciousness is made of electrical impulses flowing between neurons. Humans act in a mechanical manner, generally, and there is no reason to think there IS a soul.

What do you believe, and why do you believe it?

[yyyesiam2]

the "observer" has never been found in all of those electrical impulses and neurons. the brain may be the sum of these parts and others, but what is the observer? what is consciousness? how could your existance be nothing more than matter? are you here, now, or are you a computer? seriously ask yourself this.

[sexylilunicornbutt]

I'm a panpsychist...I believe everything has a degree of consciousness. I don't know if we'll simply change states of awareness when we die, or if there is an individual soul (which could exist, for whatever reason). But I do believe that consciousness is more than an epiphenomenon of brain tissue. I can imagine how that COULD be, but I also have experiences that show me that it isn't, for whatever that is worth.

By the way, as for electrical impulses between neurons, you should check this out:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-02/uob-bwm022707.php

[BlackGuardXIII]

The soul is a fundamental ingredient for just about every religion, but the whole concept is surrounded by myth and mysticism. Most people's belief in a soul is based solely (haha!) on an emotional reaction to the prospect of death and/or human conciousness. So...

I believe there is no soul, and that a human being is the sum of his/her parts, and conciousness is made of electrical impulses flowing between neurons. Humans act in a mechanical manner, generally, and there is no reason to think there IS a soul.

What do you believe, and why do you believe it?You assume belief is based on one thing, a fear of death. It is not so simple, and I feel that there is far more who believe in a soul for other reasons than there are who do so for that one. In my case, it has been the cumulative effect of a number of inexplicable occurences which I was directly witness to, supported and bolstered by the accounts of similar things by close friends, whose credibility, sanity, honesty, and accuracy I trust. If I feared death, I would not think that I would need to believe in a soul anyway. So what if I die and thats it? My bones rot, and I am no more, big deal, I wouldn't know anyway. What is there to fear? The prospect of there being consequences for our choices in this life, which could affect where we go in the afterlife is far more daunting of a concept. It is the wonder of the universe, and the beauty of it all that I found to be somehow sacred, and somehow instilled with some kind of ethereal divinity. I have since read that many great scientists, like Einstein and Hawking, have said that they are in awe of the mysterious nature of it all. The majority of those who believe in the soul do so for more reason than fear of death, and I think that most people do so partly because they have seen things which can best be explained by life after death. That is why I do, anyway. Death is by your side every day of your life, so you may as well make it your friend. It does not make any difference to me either way, I just believe because that is what I have found is the best answer for things I have seen which have no rational answer.

[prismatism]

i think you should spend a week doing salvia and writing constantly.

i did that, and since then there has been absolutely no doubt in my mind that i am a soul and there is something divine and perfect operating every tiny little bit of energy and everything as a whole. really. you have to have it all torn away from you and digested and puked out backwards, and then reassembled, to realize how fucking amazing it is, it CANNOT be an accident.

unless you're happy, then your boat is afloat, so that's rad for you.

[FreakerSoup]

The prospect of there being consequences for our choices in this life, which could affect where we go in the afterlife is far more daunting of a concept. Indeed. Eternal damnation is quite the motivation device.

It is the wonder of the universe, and the beauty of it all that I found to be somehow sacred, and somehow instilled with some kind of ethereal divinity. I have since read that many great scientists, like Einstein and Hawking, have said that they are in awe of the mysterious nature of it all. I often find myself in amazement at the world and stars. But it's unreasonable to link that to religion. Beauty, even overwhelming beauty, is no indicator of divine beings or intelligence. Often the most beauty resides in the most random things, like stars, or mountains, or corals, or the northern lights, or the ridges on the back of your hand, or any number of other beautiful things.
The majority of those who believe in the soul do so for more reason than fear of death, and I think that most people do so partly because they have seen things which can best be explained by life after death. I don't think there is anything best explained by life after death. I've seen my share of coincidences, dreamed a number of scenes that I later saw for the first time, and stuff like that. Some may be evidence of an as-of-yet untapped realm of knowledge, but to say that a particular instance is best explained by life after death requires a LOT of evidence.

Death is by your side every day of your life, so you may as well make it your friend. Many people are horrified at the thought of ceasing to exist when they die.

It does not make any difference to me either way, I just believe because that is what I have found is the best answer for things I have seen which have no rational answer. I appreciate your view, of believing in an afterlife but not a particular religion (as far as what I know of you), because you have no reason to. I used to have similar beliefs, but I think now that they were more hopeful wishes than beliefs. I do hope there is an afterlife, I just don't think that's the case.

And sorry prismatism, but I won't be doing drugs and writing. Although I would be interested to know what you produced that made you believe what you do.

[BlackBillBlake]

"Alan Ginsberg says you aint got no soul, the Ancient Egyptians say you got 14 of the bastards"


-William S.Burroughs 'The Western Lands'.

[sentient]

Heres a nice little song about souls

We lift our spirits high
and with gladdened hearts
we lift our souls to the lord
our soles to you lord
we lift our souls to heaven too
our souls to the lord and heaven
our soles to god above
our souls to you lord our soles to you
and I say our souls to all those that believe

I call it the arseholes song

[yyyesiam2]

i was kind of annoyed till i read that last line.

[yyyesiam2]

Humans act in a mechanical manner, generally, and there is no reason to think there IS a soul.



this may be true, when our actions are based on our body's impulses. when based on pure stillness of mind, there is no mechanical action. this is zen.

[prismatism]

i wrote something but then didn't feel like pushing the post button because trying to describe the experience of a reality without a soul, or a reality with nothing but soul, or any alteration along those lines is totally pointless, which is why i said you should try it, if you really want to explore the existence vs. the nonexistence of the soul.

and i don't mean that in a way like "methheads have no soul". i mean, what i see as the soul, i can now see working in tiny subtle ways that we sooo take for granted. the soul is glue holding everything together. it's the space inbetween the letters so you see something that makes sense and not just a bunch of black blobs. that's a metaphor. i can't explain it, without writing a giant thingy :).

BUT if you go far enough into spirituality OR science you will wind up in the same exact place, with different names for the same things.

[BlackBillBlake]

this may be true, when our actions are based on our body's impulses. when based on pure stillness of mind, there is no mechanical action. this is zen.
A brave attempt - but the Zen masters say Zen is completely beyond definition.

Also even if the mind is stilled there is still the unconscious mechanical activity of the body going on - if it ceased, so would life.

[BlackBillBlake]

BUT if you go far enough into spirituality OR science you will wind up in the same exact place, with different names for the same things.
Or maybe you'll find that similar language is used to describe totally different concepts.

[yyyesiam2]

yes, the body acts in a mechanical manner. however, if it is acting from a base of silence, stillness-it is not acting on mechanical impulses. i agree that the body is mechanical-i'm trying to talk about the difference between this mechanical body, and what causes it to act.

[yyyesiam2]

when the zen masters spoke of it being indescribable, they meant the experience itself. that experience of action without thought or grasping, is far beyond these words. you can still get some idea of it. that is why it is written about in the first place.

[BlackBillBlake]

yes, the body acts in a mechanical manner. however, if it is acting from a base of silence, stillness-it is not acting on mechanical impulses. i agree that the body is mechanical-i'm trying to talk about the difference between this mechanical body, and what causes it to act.
It's the life energy that causes it to act IMO. That is something which is never still - it a dynamic force. In a sense it is mechanical. Even the functions of the brain associated with the most tranquil of minds is carrying out millions of operations every second.
There is no basis of stillness - just a capacity to arrive at mental emptiness - which usually gets filled up again pretty quickly.

[prismatism]

Or maybe you'll find that similar language is used to describe totally different concepts.
or maybe both. but i don't think so. :) you can.



even if "you" die, there is energy bouncing around inside the atoms of your body. so, zen stillness doesn't depend on your physical movements. i hope i'm not out of place to compare it to karma yoga, where you are physically doing things, but it doesn't matter because you're detatched and free from reactions, so actually, you're doing nothing.

[yyyesiam2]

what do you think directs and focuses this energy?

[gib_0101]

Humans act in a mechanical manner, generally, and there is no reason to think there IS a soul.
I wouldn't say there is no reason. The plain fact that I feel my own mind and see my own thoughts is enough for me to believe, not necessarily in an eternal soul that can somehow leave the body, but that I have a mental life which is more than just the sum of neurons and chemicals in my brain. I know it sounds naive and very simple, but so far I have yet to encounter an arguments that can refute it without question.

[themnax]

the soul is what you are. the body is what you walk arround in, while living in THIS life. (or another like it. in others NOT like it, you may likely not need a body at all)

(one body one life, but one soul, forever. and no you can't loose it or have it stolen, it is you, and there is no other thing that you are. bodies can and do rot. souls do not. bodies can be "folded, spindled and mutilated". souls can not. they are not subject to damage other then that self inflicted, often as a resault of social coercion, even, perhapse especialy, when that coercion, as in the case of beliefs, is well intended)

=^^=
.../\...

[BlackGuardXIII]

I often find myself in amazement at the world and stars. But it's unreasonable to link that to religion. Beauty, even overwhelming beauty, is no indicator of divine beings or intelligence. Often the most beauty resides in the most random things, like stars, or mountains, or corals, or the northern lights, or the ridges on the back of your hand, or any number of other beautiful things. I totally agree, and beauty is subjective, what I find beautiful, others may not.

I don't think there is anything best explained by life after death. I've seen my share of coincidences, dreamed a number of scenes that I later saw for the first time, and stuff like that. Some may be evidence of an as-of-yet untapped realm of knowledge, but to say that a particular instance is best explained by life after death requires a LOT of evidence. I don't know if life goes on, but I have seen a few things best explained by either life after death or out of body travel. I also have had a number of precognitive dreams, exacting in detail, and the chance they were precog was not at all anticipated until they occured later. Perhaps I have seen some things that you have not? It is not likely I will know for sure till I go. It is not something I concern myself with overly, at any rate.

Many people are horrified at the thought of ceasing to exist when they die.

Fair enough, I'm not at all, why would they care, they won't even know?

I appreciate your view, of believing in an afterlife but not a particular religion (as far as what I know of you), because you have no reason to. I used to have similar beliefs, but I think now that they were more hopeful wishes than beliefs. I do hope there is an afterlife, I just don't think that's the case.
It is a little different for me. I don't hope so, and I was convinced that was what was most likely based strictly on critically analyzing events I have witnessed. For most of my life I tried not to think about it, the phenomena were 'neat', unexplained, and filed away. Two years ago I felt I needed to examine the whole works, and along with the events occuring at that time, I concluded that I believe in an afterlife. But not because I wanted to, or hoped there was one. The opposite, I avoided answering the question for over 30 years, every time it popped up.

[yyyesiam2]

maybe we should rename it "continuing life". "aferlife" seems to assert that life could somehow end.