Debate thread.

[Nathan11]

If there is anything you want to talk about with all of the other people in the Christian forums, post it here.
So many times all of the old posts are never read.
This way, many of the questions past posters read, will be answered by people reading the new questions.

I hope this works out.

[My Question]
How do believers in the Bible feel about drinking alcohol and smoking canabis?
(for non medical uses)

[Nathan11]

So, you believe that in do either of them, it can be destructive on your life, but it is not a sin, per se?

[bandit28]

Midnightmoonlight has prooved himself to be a wierdo. Taking what he says seriously can alter the truth.

As a Christian, your body is a temple. Now, as a human we tend to put aside what we know as right to do what we want and what feels good to us. From simply a rational view point, contaminants such as alcohol, tobaco, canabis, and several others have been proven to be unhealthy(granted canabis in certain forms can be used medicinaly as can tobaco). Now, looking at it from that point of view, the Chistian can deduct that more than likely these things would not be something he would do in the presence of The Lord.

[JohnnyATL]

personally i think drinkin is ok as long as you dont do it like excessivly like getting wasted or getting drunk every night. I belive canabis and tobacco are made by god therefor it is not bad .



1. Is it alright to follow 2 relgions? for example could i follow buddhist livestyle and views while still beliveing in god?

2. Does anyone think that god and jesus are the same people

3. Does anyone think that most of the religions in the world follow the same god/ religios being

[Nathan11]

the Chistian can deduct that more than likely these things would not be something he would do in the presence of The Lord.
But see, if I was Christian, I would want to. Because, The Lord gave you cannabis as a gift. (I think, as do many others) Why not show him you appreciate it? And, truthfully, cannabis isn't that toxic.

[Nathan11]

personally i think drinkin is ok as long as you dont do it like excessivly like getting wasted or getting drunk every night. I belive canabis and tobacco are made by god therefor it is not bad .



1. Is it alright to follow 2 relgions? for example could i follow buddhist livestyle and views while still beliveing in god?

2. Does anyone think that god and jesus are the same people

3. Does anyone think that most of the religions in the world follow the same god/ religios being
In my personal opinion, I believe that all religions are worshiping different 'versions,' if you will, of the same God.

All people see God in a different view, so, they worship the one they see.

[JohnnyATL]

Yeah i agree but like everyone i say that to is like phhss your dumb but again i live in the southern baptist territory lol. I also think that the bible has alot of symbolism for example i belive that adam and eve were not real. instead they were a symbol of humantiy with the tree of knowlege there faith in god. When sin tempted them it was tempting them with sin not eatin a apple.

anyone agree

[Harmony_rain]

1. Is it alright to follow 2 relgions? for example could i follow buddhist livestyle and views while still beliveing in god?
I think it is fine as long as God is your number one priority and you follow his teachings above all others. If you worship God and buddah, then no it is not right, but uf you live your life in a calm, peaceful way and believe in a harmonious lifestyle then sure but keep God first in your heart.

2. Does anyone think that god and jesus are the same people
Honestly, Jesus is God. He is the human form of God. God created Jesus to be sent down in God;s place to tell the people about him.

3. Does anyone think that most of the religions in the world follow the same god/ religios being?
Alot of religions I think have the same meaning behind them with just some alterations. Look at the Hindu religion, the God of all God's is Krishna. You can alter the spelling and it is pretty much Christ. Muslum's believe in God but instead of Jesus they have Mahammad. All religions stem from the one true religion, they were just altered a little bit here and there to benefit everyone's needs in some way or another.

[mynameiskc]

as to the first question, i believe god put everythign here for a purpose. pot and alcohol are not the creation of the devil, okay? now are other chemicals that have been used. putting certain chemicals in your body with a specific spiriual purpose in mind, not just out of abusing sacred plants for selfish pleasure, is not defiling any temple. do you think jesus was worried about defiling the utmost temple of god with wine? and dont' pull that "it was just grape juice" crap with me. it was alcoholic, or else there wouldn't be that warning the ot about drinking too much. it's all in your motivations. are you just looking for an excuse to get high? you won't find it here. i won't condemn anyone, it's not my place, but you know your motivations. i personally went through some drug troubles but found that i'm a better stronger person for the experience. those drugs were not wasted, nor was the experience. but i stoped the abuse. abuse it he perfect word. everything we have on this earth is a gift, and to use it selfishly is an abuse.

[Nathan11]

Ok, I understand what you're saying.
You're talking about how many people use LSD as a spiritual tool, not a recreational drug, correct?
Now, what do you feel about drinking alcohol?
I mean this as just a regular drink.
Also, many Baptists beleive getting drunk is a sin, how do you feel about it?

[bandit28]

1. Is it alright to follow 2 relgions? for example could i follow buddhist livestyle and views while still beliveing in god?

2. Does anyone think that god and jesus are the same people

3. Does anyone think that most of the religions in the world follow the same god/ religios being1. No, God said "Put no other god before me". Not only is he talking spiritualy, but also physicly. Meaning, if all you care about is your car, or your drug of choice and so on.
2. If you read and study The Bible you will see that They, along with the Holy Spirit are one in the same.
3. No I don't think so. Most people get cought up on religion and tradition. I am not a religious person, I am a Christian. My God is the one and only. As He said, The Alpha and Omega.

But see, if I was Christian, I would want to. Because, The Lord gave you cannabis as a gift. (I think, as do many others) Why not show him you appreciate it? And, truthfully, cannabis isn't that toxic.He also gave us poison ivy, will you smoke that? Yes, God created everything on this earth but not so that we could give in and abuse it. Oh, and God didn't create alcohol, He gave man the ability to learn, and with time, man learned how to make it.

Yeah i agree but like everyone i say that to is like phhss your dumb but again i live in the southern baptist territory lol. I also think that the bible has alot of symbolism for example i belive that adam and eve were not real. instead they were a symbol of humantiy with the tree of knowlege there faith in god. When sin tempted them it was tempting them with sin not eatin a apple.

anyone agreeNo I don't agree. First off, God created life. To say He didn't says He isn't real. Also, they didn't eat an apple. It doesn't say apple, or orange, or peach....what does it say, it says a fruit.

[Nathan11]

No I don't agree. First off, God created life. To say He didn't says He isn't real. Also, they didn't eat an apple. It doesn't say apple, or orange, or peach....what does it say, it says a fruit.
I don't think s/he is saying God didn't create life, I think s/he is saying that this is all symbolism used to explain how humans are tainted and tempted by sin.

I mean, according to The Bible, there is no way around that God create life.

[mynameiskc]

here we go.

Ok, I understand what you're saying.
You're talking about how many people use LSD as a spiritual tool, not a recreational drug, correct?

-yeah, that's what i mean. just because it doesn't work for EVERYONE doesn't make it invalid. it may have only been created for the few.

Now, what do you feel about drinking alcohol?

-i like beer. beer beer beer beer i like beer!

i mean this as just a regular drink.

-agreed. christ liked wine. wine gives me a headache.

Also, many Baptists beleive getting drunk is a sin, how do you feel about it?

-in that it is risky behavior, a behavior we all know can lead to all sorts of sinful acts, then, maybe. it's not the getting drunk that's the sin necessarily, it's what you do when you ARE drunk. however, if you live to get drunk or high, then it has become your god. that violates the first commandment to love god before all other gods.

[Nathan11]

Ok, I understand what you're saying.
You're talking about how many people use LSD as a spiritual tool, not a recreational drug, correct?

-yeah, that's what i mean. just because it doesn't work for EVERYONE doesn't make it invalid. it may have only been created for the few.

Now, what do you feel about drinking alcohol?

-i like beer. beer beer beer beer i like beer!

i mean this as just a regular drink.

-agreed. christ liked wine. wine gives me a headache.

Also, many Baptists beleive getting drunk is a sin, how do you feel about it?

-in that it is risky behavior, a behavior we all know can lead to all sorts of sinful acts, then, maybe. it's not the getting drunk that's the sin necessarily, it's what you do when you ARE drunk. however, if you live to get drunk or high, then it has become your god. that violates the first commandment to love god before all other gods.


Haha, I love you. I think you're great.
You've explained this all so well why keeping a sound Christian mind.
(I'm glad to see this is possible.)

[Epiphany]

This question was asked last week, and we had a big discussion on it a few months ago so here are both links:

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2586 (http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2586)

and

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21308&page=3&pp=10

[mynameiskc]

well, nathan, i think what happens is that so many christians are attacked so often that it's very difficult not to get angry and defensive. no one is perfect. but when you're angry, your ability to communicate is lessened, and the message gets lost in the rage. there's also those people that are so new to it and so excited about it that they are so thrilled to share it that they don't listen to what people are trying to say, or if they do, they're baffled and confused as to why you're not as excited as they are. me, i've never been really excitable. that's just me. people need to cut each other more slack, but even i can't take it all the time.

[dna]

as to the first question, i believe god put everythign here for a purpose. pot and alcohol are not the creation of the devil, okay? now are other chemicals that have been used. putting certain chemicals in your body with a specific spiriual purpose in mind, not just out of abusing sacred plants for selfish pleasure, is not defiling any temple. do you think jesus was worried about defiling the utmost temple of god with wine? and dont' pull that "it was just grape juice" crap with me. it was alcoholic, or else there wouldn't be that warning the ot about drinking too much. it's all in your motivations. are you just looking for an excuse to get high? you won't find it here. i won't condemn anyone, it's not my place, but you know your motivations. i personally went through some drug troubles but found that i'm a better stronger person for the experience. those drugs were not wasted, nor was the experience. but i stoped the abuse. abuse it he perfect word. everything we have on this earth is a gift, and to use it selfishly is an abuse.
:) You are correct in my honest opinion,it was wine.
I use to drink,but not anymore.It's only because alcoholism
runs in my family and I was starting to use it to cope with
life.God helped me stop drinking.
It's really not abuse if you don't let yourself get drunk.
wine can cause headaches because of what they add to it
now. It did me when I use to drink.
Wine was probably more pure,and maybe even stronger
when Jesus was here?

[mynameiskc]

:) You are correct in my honest opinion,it was wine.
I use to drink,but not anymore.It's only because alcoholism
runs in my family and I was starting to use it to cope with
life.God helped me stop drinking.
It's really not abuse if you don't let yourself get drunk.
wine can cause headaches because of what they add to it
now. It did me when I use to drink.
Wine was probably more pure,and maybe even stronger
when Jesus was here?
i think it's the nitrates or some such thing in wine, some inherently in certain grape crops. my dad made mean once and that didn't hurt me. i can't drink a lot of beer because i'll get a preemptive hangover. i can, however, drink smooth, quality whiskeys, which by their price naturally curbs my consumption to a more tolerable, slow pace. i don't drink to get drunk unless somethings very wrong with the situation. i know this now, and am able to extricate myself from bad situations.

[JohnnyATL]

I was actually meaning instead of adam and eve being individuals I belive they are actually representing all of the world of humanity (Note) i belive the world evolved gradually

[Nathan11]

I was actually meaning instead of adam and eve being individuals I belive they are actually representing all of the world of humanity (Note) i belive the world evolved gradually
UH OH!

Did you sey evolution in the Christian forums?!?!

It's open season!

lol

Just kidding.

[JohnnyATL]

i dont care if everyone yells at me lol i was just stating it ::ducks head and runs::

[mynameiskc]

it's okay. i believe god evolved us, too. i don't think we're an accident, i just don't believe he went "POOF!" gimme grandkids!" there's no blasphemy in that. some prefer to think it was all accidental or inevitable, i like to think the whole thing was guided and nurtured.

[JohnnyATL]

well then would you think that adam and eve were like neolithic man? or cavemen considering they have proved that civilization evolved out of the middle east messopotamia?

[mynameiskc]

sure, i've got no problem with that. i don't see how that would be considered a cut against god or my belief in him. i just think that the original texts were greatly simplified based on the understanding held by the people who passed down the stories, and the degree of detail they would be able to accurately pass along in word until it could be written.

[JohnnyATL]

yeah thats cool the reason i was saying that is because where i live most of my friends are hardcore baptist and I asked them that and they said they dont belive in evolution or any of my ideas so i was like alrighty

[mynameiskc]

yeah thats cool the reason i was saying that is because where i live most of my friends are hardcore baptist and I asked them that and they said they dont belive in evolution or any of my ideas so i was like alrighty
yeah, i don't try to push too hard. people have different levels of tolerance. when i first started attending church, by myself when i was 9, i was priveledged to sit in bible studies with doctors, lawyers and philosophers, all of whom had a masters of phd in religious philosophy. it was a sort of club. i didn't really get to understand a lot of the concepts until later. but one of my favorites is that a couple fo the scholars were discussing ancient hebrew texts of the genesis. i guess the word that we translated to mean 'day' was actually pretty much outside of our ken, and could also be translated to mean 'forever' or 'eon.' their argument presented that day was that there's no reason to believe that 7 'days' MUST mean 'one week of our current understanding.' that god created man and animals from the earth could just be a very simplified explanation of evolution, given to the less technically minded children of those days. a mother goose explanation of god's creation.

[TrippinBTM]

A few points to address:

First, cannabis isn't actually very bad for you. All the health problems associated with it come from smoking it; inhaling smoke isn't really great for you.

Second. Drugs and alcohol in moderation is cool. Dependence is not. However, I say that not because i think it pisses some god off, but because it's bad for the body and the mind, can ruin your life in some cases, and makes it hard to be spiritual in any sense...you're too absorbed looking for your next drink or fix to really be aware of anything else.

Third. I think that all religions are right, and wrong. They all view the divine through a different cultural lens, and thus come up with different ideas on it. Then they add laws and rules and sacraments and rites that fit with their own culture. Thus I adhere to none of them, but take from each what works for me. I have to walk my own path, so if borrowing ideas from Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity works for me, so be it. At their hearts, they all basically say the same thing anyways.

[mynameiskc]

i would hasten to add to your second point is that the reason it WOULD piss god off is BECAUSE it's bad for your body and mind.

[TrippinBTM]

i would hasten to add to your second point is that the reason it WOULD piss god off is BECAUSE it's bad for your body and mind.
Well, I don't believe in a God that can be pissed off. I don't see god as an entity or as having any qualities. It's sort of an ever-present kind of god, as in, there is no seperation between spirit and matter, the two are one. Thus, I tend not to use the word god, preferring to say "universe." I don't think drug use pisses off the universe. Of course, I realize this is the christianity folder and I'm among people who do see God as an entity or at least as someone or something that can be pissed off. Thus my original phrasing, just saying I don't think I'm pissing any god off (trying to keep things simple).

Anyways, I like the Buddhist idea of the middle path. Total abstinance and total indulgence are equally wrong and detrimental. Peace is found in the middle, where balance exists. In fact, "balance" is key in my spiritual ideas, and I feel it applies to everything: the environment, drug use, relationships, and spirituality. :)

[mynameiskc]

well said, and i agree wholeheartedly. i did apply my concept of god to your argument, sorry to step on it. so i will say, in the christian understanding of god, god only gets mad about that because it IS bad for us. much like your mom will get really annoyed because all you'll eat is sour punch straws and cokes or something like that.