To drink or not to drink

[earthmother]

OK, there seems to be a little miscommunication here regarding alcohol at Rainbow Gatherings. So, lets vote.

[Bumble]

I believe if you're 21, then there should be no reason why you can not drink. saying that everyone who drinks causes chaos is a generalization and just wrong. I drink and I never ever get out of hand. It is our right in the USA to drink if we want as long as we are 21.

[Shithead_n_dozer]

nothing wrong with it if ya aint being a pest. sick and tired of being dissed on by frillys cuz us alcoholics like to drink. woudnt a true rainbow accept you and love you the way you are? i guess not.....

[nutznfl]

on a personal note my religion says

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. " (I Timothy 5:23)

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18)

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/wine.html <for anyone interested

I drink maybe bout a 6pack a year at the most, but my wife likes to drink,sometimes for pleasure sometimes for pain, cheaper than a doc and scrip..

Therefore i hove no problem with the moderational use of alcohol.

[Shithead_n_dozer]

nice

[drumminmama]

main circle, nahh.. that's where we should be coming together (and we KNOW this is devisive) also not around Kids Village.
I personally the times when I can get away from agro alcohol energy, so a couple camps where it's OK is reasonable (so my vote is between A camp only and subtle use)
Comes down to each drinker (or other consumer) is their buzz-induced behaviour creating tension with others? is that appropriate?
Remember what THE Gathering is aimed at : prayer for world peace.
Where does that start?

[MollyThe Hippy]

alchohol is cool if you don't drink it

[hippiehillbilly]

Remember what THE Gathering is aimed at : prayer for world peace.
Where does that start?um 12 A.M. on the fourth???http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/newsmilies/leaving.gif

[MollyThe Hippy]

and then it becomes super cool

[MollyThe Hippy]

when you drink it

[Shithead_n_dozer]

I Drink At Drainbow Gatherings And Allways Will. We Got More Problems Than People Enjoying Themselfs, Ropeheads With Lice That Wont Cut Em Off Gave My Freinds Kids Lice And They Had To Shave All Their Beautiful Hair. Some Hippies Are Nasty And Carry Desiese And Dont Care. And What Looks Worse To The Feds, A Group Of People Drinking Beer Around A Fire Enjoying Them Selfs Or Some Trpping Hippie Running In Circles Chanting Some Weird Shit With 'dose Me' Written All Over Their Naked Body?

[MollyThe Hippy]

a few irresponsible drunks give all the responsible drunks a bad name

[Shithead_n_dozer]

a few irresponsible drunks give all the responsible drunks a bad name




true, true so true. as is for any intoxicant. i know plenty people that suck to be around when their stoned, on acid twweking, h uped, what evr. then again, i know lots of people who are actually alot easyer to hang with if their on what ever it is they like to do. im not against any drugs at all. in my opinion, thers only 2 sides of the fence to stand on if you do anything, anti or pro drugs. me i like em all. is that so bad? whats wrong with that? as long as you dont let them interphere with your lifestyle or hurt anyone, and youre having fun whats wrong with that? no problem i see. now when you have to steal lie or hurt some one to get youre fix, that effects every one. me, i can do herion speed smoke crack and walk away from it. i dont want to be judged negitvely because of how i like to enjoy myself. o yeah did i mention i like to stay liqouerd up?

[wootier]

i think there should b an option between bringing kegs to main circle and hding ure beer...but im gunna have to go with bringing kegs to main circle because i wont hide wat i do, ever

[wootier]

i think it should b handled on a situational basis anyway...dont let intensely fucked up people of any sort run around kid village...but people seem to b okay with wrecked dosed people, so why not wrecked drunk people, especially if there not being violent in any way

[Shithead_n_dozer]

my point exactly. oh but dont forget the frillys are better than us bro, im nothing but a worthless drunk. ha i wishi could count all theese hi holys that wanna sit and 'council' all day about how everyone elde is fucking up by being them selve and how there so hi and holy, but then they leave on the 7th. ha! im usualy one of the last ones to leave. in w v my kitchen green circus singlehandedly recycled the whole gathering after the frilly peices of shit left because mabye sorting trash would mess up there aura or there positive clean vibration brother bear. and guess what? we stayed drunk allmost the whole time too! so there you lazy arrogant hippiecrites how bout a little less talk and a lot more work? o sorry forgot that would be sucking up. people are really starting to piss me off

[earthmother]

Just sos ya know, some of my bestest friends in the whole world are sloshed almost every second of the day. One particularly grand friend actually turned yeller and had to go off liquor or die. But dammit, I been goin' to gatherings off and on fer a long time, and the alcohol energy is gettin to be an awful lot more than it ever used to. I think partly because the FS dudes keep tryin' so hard to put us in such "convenient" places. I figure theres plenty of room in the forest for everything as long as it ain't BOTHERIN' nobody. But in my experience, folks openly and obviously drinkin' at main circle has ALWAYS been something that bothered an awful lot of folks. Sorry if you drinkers feel singled out, I'm speakin' for a few thousand at least. I suppose because lots of folks consider the main part of the gathering to be sort of like goin' to church. What ya do at yer camp is up to you, what ya got in yer cup is up to you. Yer botherin' somebody, it don't matter what mind alterin' shit yer doin'. Ya NOT botherin' anybody, cool, who cares what yer drinkin' or snortin' or what the fuck ever... But used to be if folks were drinkin' out in the open like, a whole shit pot of people might walk up to them and let them know in a very loving way that it might be seen as a problem. Guess I'm just "old school". But I've heard quite a few folks who used to be regulars at gatherings say they don't go any more 'cause it's changed too much from it's roots. Whole concept's changin'. Those are a bunch of fine spiritual elders I'm talkin' about. Do ya REALLY think it's worth it to run off folks like that so ya can carry yer beer can around? Why not just pour it in a cup fer crissakes? Who's gonna know. Respect, man, that's all.

[hippiestead]

Respect is the big thing, really. Like our crew are mainly drinkers who want to spend the Gathering getting healthy so they can drink when they leave, anyone who wants a beer & is in the crew camp does their drinking in their tent, in A-camp or in town. we're not crazy 'bout seeing folks with beers in the church but felt like Luke had done enough for the Fam that he deserved the big prank pulled in his name

It's not just the drinking that's keeping some folks from coming Home...it's a lot of things really...respect is getting very thin & there's so much judgement going on...it's sad...

[wootier]

i suppose respect works both ways...us drinkers feel like were not being respected, and the sober ones out there feel they arent... clearly more brothers and sisters prefer alcohol not being around, the majority is against us...i suppose as long as we stand up for wat we believe and u stand up for wat u believe, a balance will b reached, i just think the drinkers r being forced to suppress wat they believe, tipping the balance...if that makes any sense, i sware im tottaly sober...really

[dd3stp233]

I'm no expert on rainbow or anything but it is my understanding that the main concept to it was a bit higher then just another beer bash in the woods. I convey this, not as judgmental or biased one way or the other about alcohol but just as what the ideas behind/founding/creating rainbow are.

[hippiestead]

Each Rainbow has a different view on what ideas are Rainbow. For us, it's a Family reunion and the drunk uncles & aunties are a part of the scene. we're not crazy about other folks putting off their views on us...like veggie folks who tell us that we can't cook meat cuz it's a Rainbow Gathering & we respect the veggie folks enough to make a veggie pot even if we are cooking meat but man don't tell us that we have to play your trip cuz it's not about you it's about Us as a Family & that meat pot always empties faster than the veggie pot....

[wootier]

i cant imagine anyone thinking rainbow is some sort of free party...just cus were drinking, doesnt mean were here to get drunk, just like people dont go to rainbow to smoke pot, but it just comes with them

[hippiestead]

see enough folks with 'dose me' signs & you'll know that some only want to party. thing some folks forget is that Rainbow is about healing & growth and all kinds of things really and sometimes those party folks will accidently stumble upon the Light.

Course the party folks are usually looking for more than booze or pot & a lot of drinkers work way hard to get the trails workable long before other folks show up, smokers too....seed camp has lots of folks with rough edges but none of them are working that hard for just a party

[dd3stp233]

i cant imagine anyone thinking rainbow is some sort of free party...just cus were drinking, doesnt mean were here to get drunk, just like people dont go to rainbow to smoke pot, but it just comes with them
There are quite a few people that think that is just a free party, some outside estimates have been about that roughly half the people at a gathering think that.

[drumminmama]

LOL at HHB... ok, you got me...

I think Rainbow has created its own like-minded pockets, for good or ill isn't to say for now. It is what it is, but the folks who need to either be around or be away from certain energies should be able to siddle along and still be Home.
A-camp is the only camp that I can think of off the top of my head that is created around one non food, non coffee consumption habit and people who are identified because of their habit.

[hippiestead]

what about the drug free camp for dyslexic hippies or Nic at Nite?

[Shithead_n_dozer]

LOL at HHB... ok, you got me...

I think Rainbow has created its own like-minded pockets, for good or ill isn't to say for now. It is what it is, but the folks who need to either be around or be away from certain energies should be able to siddle along and still be Home.
A-camp is the only camp that I can think of off the top of my head that is created around one non food, non coffee consumption habit and people who are identified because of their habit.

ok you go your head up your ass sry to say. thers camp dedicated every drug under the rainbow, ever seen a group of people sitting around a fire with nothig to say, nodding out? kids cooking meth in ocala? it aint all sunshine and butterflies man. syre you can try to pretend it dosnt happen, but why live in a fantasy? what do you think the whole hippie culture was alot to begin with? a bunch of spun out mofos with open minds and peace in there hearts. drugs helped create us including alcohol. all the best people i know in rainbow are drinkers

[dawn_sky]

I think there should be areas where alcohol is ok and areas where it is not ok (at least if you're gonna drink there, be discrete and don't get all the way to drunk). So I'd vote for A-camp and being discrete in your own camp.

As long as we're respecting everyone who chooses to drink, we gotta respect those people who can't deal with being around it, whether they're just high holies or whether they're ex-alcoholics who would be too tempted or whether they're children of alcoholics who freak out cuz of their own issues if they have to be around it. Not everyone who bitches about being around a lot of drunk people is a high holy or whatever. Some just have issues of their own.

kids cooking meth in ocala? it aint all sunshine and butterflies man.Damn. That's fucked up and not at all fucking cool. I don't care what you wanna get fucked up on, but when you're dumping toxic fucking waste in the forest, you need a fork stuck in your neck. And cooking meth produces some highly toxic fucking waste. I hope all those fuckers od. Better yet, get fucked up, trip, and fall with their faces in that corrosive shit (get their face ate off). Or just blow themselves up.

How the fuck is that Rainbow to put that many people in risk to their lives (if they fuck up, cause an explosion, set the forest on fire) just for a little high? That really pisses me off. That ain't rainbow at all. You wanna do meth, well, I think you're too stupid to live and should be removed from the gene pool anyway (being from the midwest I've seen what that shit does to everyone who even thinks it might be fun once in a while), but at least cook it where it ain't putting anyone else in harm's way.

[wootier]

cooking meth vreates alot of hazardous waste, including meth

[barter mama]

I think it's all about respect and being discreet. This applies to any substance, moderation is the key and at gatherings you need to respect what Rainbow is to everyone.

It hurts to see my brothers & sisters struggling with a horrible addiction (especially if it's something as nasty and toxic as meth), and I do think that some substances really aren't what Rainbow is all about. But I can only interpret it for myself, so I try not to judge and just hope that people are awoken by all the light & love at the gatherings. :)

[wootier]

i suppose, in the end, its just that we have to respect eachothers choices...look, if somebody thinks smoking crack is worth it, good for them, smoke it up, im not gunna smoke it...i can see how it would look pretty bad a bunch of people on the trails doing that kinda shit, and it gives me some sort of vague idea of where the people who dont wanna see drinkers r coming from...then again, there can only b a certain degree of acceptance and respect, and one party, i suppose the majority, is going to take presidence over the minority... if it comes down to, ure not respecting me by drinking on the trails, and ure not respecting me if ure not letting me drink on the trails, but everyone still wants to make it about respect, were at a stand still...never will both party's be happy...but thinking about the group as whole, as a family, lets say...i think we would all make out better if drinking were kept at certain camps(other than a-camp), this way all apposed could avoid those camps, and everyone who wants to have a drink doesnt have to go to a-camp or hide wat there doing...

[Sunshine Al]

As they say "You hit the nail on the head". It's about Respect

[measa420]

As they say "You hit the nail on the head". It's about RespectBrother couldnt agree more
thats all it boils down to
Love and Light to every single one of my
Brothers and Sisters
R*E*S*P*E*C*T
very simple
an yet
very effective

[Gyva02]

I Love to drink beer, but dont at the gathering. Can you imagin the whole place being like A-camp... holy shit no, I wouldnt go. Call me what you want but its true, alcohol for the most part brings out the negative in folks. Let the bashing begin fellow drinkers.... Just stay in A-camp to drink.... :)
Mike...

[GreaseMonkey]

I Love to drink beer, but dont at the gathering. Can you imagin the whole place being like A-camp... holy shit no, I wouldnt go. Call me what you want but its true, alcohol for the most part brings out the negative in folks. Let the bashing begin fellow drinkers.... Just stay in A-camp to drink.... :)
Mike...

I totally agree with you brother! I drink all the time with my friends in babylon but I love coming to the gathering where I can be away from that energy for a while.

This last summer in CO was a mess when A-campers decided to bring a keg into the 4th of July circle! First without asking anyone they came rolling in and set the keg down in front of a vegan kitchen I was chilling at (the one with the pirates up high on nets in the white trees that dangled a piece-take a toke leave a toke... ). The kitchen people and my friends and I all were yelling "no alcohol in the church!" and "Shanta Sena!". Then the keg was moved and put in the middle of a bunch of huge bushes that were trampled! I was in Calm with Rainbow fever a few days later when I overheard a calm person talking about how a guy approached people in A-camp and simply told them that the keg was not cool (or something to that effect). They beat him up really bad (he needed medical attention), smashed the windows of his car and robbed him blind. I also heard rumors of gang fights over the keg incident.

The drunks who brought the beer to the main circle could of at least gave out free beers in the spirit of the gathering. Im sure alot of people would appreciate a drink and nobody would get too trashed. But according to Shanta Sena they were being hostile and territorial and needless to say they were not in the sharing spirit.

Hopefully in the future Shanti Sena will be more prepared. I talked to one for a little while and it seemed like they were caught off guard to deal with this and their efforts simply focused on preventing violence by creating a zone around the keg.

I heard that a while ago beer was allowed in the gathering. But lo and behold, the violence became a problem (as it usually does in LARGE crowds of drunk people) and the Elders decided to create A-camp as the designated drinking place.

Alcohol has created so many problems in babylon and is responsible for many deaths in my family as well. Having an A-camp seems like more than enough compromise to me. We are all family and even if you're an anarchist you can come and show some fuckin respect!

Luvvin y'all!

Greasemonkey

[hjaystone]

i think the keg incident was a 'wake' of sorts for an a-camp brother who took the final trip "Home" earlier in the year. the beer wasn't passed around or sold, because it was for people who knew the brother.

heard there was also an antenna bought and given his name, Luke.

i don't think it (a keg near main circle) will become a regular thing. doesn't make it 'right' or 'wrong', just giving it some context.


l,l,&l,..

[OnlyOne]

Yeh, ah little or ah lot, that iz the question a drinker must be able to control.

[Shithead_n_dozer]

r i p luke

[weedheadmatty]

get with it. you don't believe in anything else the bible says, so don't pervert it for your purposes. if you really want to claim a lineage and kinship with the fathers of this land, you would do everything in your power to eradicate this scourge from your presence. how has alcohol served the community? has it helped anbody? no. has it caused misery? yes. i'm telling you- there is absolutely no thread between FAMILY and ALCOHOL.

[OnlyOne]

Most familyz drink wine together at many mealz in france, Italy, ect. with food, not like with homless dersperate trollz wantin to get a high felling at any cost.

[weedheadmatty]

that is absolutely correct. the difference is that in those societies wine is used as a COMPONENT of a dinner designed to interact with flavor from food, NOT as an intoxicant. when i lived in germany the legal age, i believe, was 16. but guess what? you never saw 16 year olds drinking it up in bars. they knew their place, and alcohol had no mystical taboo associated with it. do peope in europe drink to excess? of course, but generally it is associated with a specific celebration, not 'just because,' which is the american justification for wanton intoxication.

[nutznfl]

get with it. you don't believe in anything else the bible says, so don't pervert it for your purposes. if you really want to claim a lineage and kinship with the fathers of this land, you would do everything in your power to eradicate this scourge from your presence. how has alcohol served the community? has it helped anbody? no. has it caused misery? yes. i'm telling you- there is absolutely no thread between FAMILY and ALCOHOL.Just wondering at whome this is directed, and unless you know this person/'s on a personal level who are YOU to say what they believe and what to them is beneficial or a celebration?...
like when i see someone i havnt seen all year, i see it as a reason to celebrate just for the fact that i may not see them next year.

I have met quite a few people and grown to love them and then hear they were in an auto accident or something and never get the
chance to say goodby or lovin you or give em any hugs. We should not take life for granted
we should celebrate everyday as if it were our last because it could be!!!

now for the pros and conns

Health benefits

Moderate alcohol consumption may provide some health benefits. It may:

Reduce your risk of developing heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and intermittent claudication
Reduce your risk of dying of a heart attack
Possibly reduce your risk of strokes, particularly ischemic strokes
Lower your risk of gallstones
Possibly reduce your risk of diabetes
Health risks

Excessive alcohol consumption can lead to serious health problems, including:

Cancer of the pancreas, mouth, pharynx, larynx, esophagus and liver, as well as breast cancer
Pancreatitis, especially in people with high levels of triglycerides in their blood
Sudden death in people with cardiovascular disease
Heart muscle damage (alcoholic cardiomyopathy) leading to heart failure
Stroke
Brain atrophy (shrinkage)
Cirrhosis of the liver
Miscarriage
Fetal alcohol syndrome in an unborn child, including impaired growth and nervous system development
Injuries due to impaired motor skills
Suicide
Agro Energy (Added)
Above all, don't feel pressured to drink. Few medical experts, if any, advise nondrinkers to start drinking.
But if you do drink and you're healthy, there's no need to stop as long as you drink responsibly and in (moderation).<Key word here.taken from

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

(Alcoholism),is a problem for a lot of people and is not beneficial or a reason for celebration as with any substance abuse...ie (salt,sugar,
fatty foods)
even too many Zu-zu's can cause problems. lol had to throw that in

As with anythng folks we have to take care of ourselvs and eachother..


puff puff pass...

[crazylegs]

Why don't them that don't like booze start their own gathering and just say no booze at our thing? Let them other ones have their A-camp and the whole shootin match but make something new that meets somewhere else. I guess you'd have to think of a new name. I don't know what.

[Shithead_n_dozer]

get with it. you don't believe in anything else the bible says, so don't pervert it for your purposes. if you really want to claim a lineage and kinship with the fathers of this land, you would do everything in your power to eradicate this scourge from your presence. how has alcohol served the community? has it helped anbody? no. has it caused misery? yes. i'm telling you- there is absolutely no thread between FAMILY and ALCOHOL.
woah yer way outta line there bro. whats worng with a buz?? some people like it and i know plenty FAMILY who drink so tone your judgements down a bit

[nutznfl]

Why don't them that don't like booze start their own gathering and just say no booze at our thing? Let them other ones have their A-camp and the whole shootin match but make something new that meets somewhere else. I guess you'd have to think of a new name. I don't know what.
How bout "Crazylegs Gathering"

[danog]

I am of the frame of mind that we all need to remember that we are all family and in such we respect all others of the family. I will drink at a gathering, maybe, but it is in a way that will not offend other family or push my way on to them as it should be with anything. In cases and this is on both sides of the issue family need to be more tolerable and less bullheaded about there views. I do firmly believe that gatherings are a place for us to gather and share fellowship with our family and as with any family when members cause turmoil within the family it has to be dealt with accordingly. If people that want to drink or for that matter do drugs to the point that it causes turmoil within the family and that person or persons continue to do that then they have no respect for the family so why are they with family. Been to biker events that didn't have some of what i seen at rainbow...it is called respect for family and self. If all you think gatherings are just one big party then maybe those that think that ought to find a field, get as trashed as they can and have a good time without bothering others. Come on lets us show the world what love and fellowship is///
Blessing to you all and loving you

[Gyva02]

all this keep it low key stuff might work with a few hundred people, I dont see it working with 10's of thousands.... just my opinion

[Bumble]

all this keep it low key stuff might work with a few hundred people, I dont see it working with 10's of thousands.... just my opinionword. my thoughts exactly.

[earthmother]

Keepin' it low key, or at A camp has worked very well for MANY years. It is just recently that things have begun to change. I'm talkin' Nationals here, it's harder to do at some regionals (some regionals actually have a BAD rep due to drinking, we've probably all heard those rumors...), and that's one reason why I don't usually go out of my way to attend regionals.
The harder the FS guys try to keep us "under control" and where "they" want us, the more accessable the site becomes and the easier it becomes to import alcohol...

[OnlyOne]

less guud shit 2 get up on, dah more bad shit to get down vit.

[makno]

i want to avoid drunks n explosives on july fourth [the tartuforical holiday of independence , whatever that means in a continent wide prison colony called the united states note that independence and united are oposing terms].....i like to celebrate the absolute fact that whatever systems of hierarchy and domination exist we are interdependent......i have no probs with a camp ....i rarely go there .....if rainbow gatherings turn up as having fireworks n booze .....i aint going !!!

[scottieb]

We counseled about drinking at Rainbowland. It isn't Rainbow to go against the consences that our brothers and sisters counseled on.

[forkman]

I keep my flask in my pack!!

[makno]

the secret compartment of my ring , i fill , with a underdog super energy pill

[subtle_black]

hi everyone.. :)

has anyone here read tom robbin's books. they're the ultimate freethinking, postmodern, and well, hippie books ever..


:)

[thesadeianlinguist]

i want to avoid drunks n explosives on july fourth [the tartuforical holiday of independence , whatever that means in a continent wide prison colony called the united states note that independence and united are oposing terms].....i like to celebrate the absolute fact that whatever systems of hierarchy and domination exist we are interdependent......i have no probs with a camp ....i rarely go there .....if rainbow gatherings turn up as having fireworks n booze .....i aint going !!!Precisely. If a lot of people plan on being drunk around the main circle, I'd just rather not go even though it'd be easy this year. I'd love to take my boyfriend and let him see how wonderful it is to meet like-minded spirits, but neither of us will be much fun if the gathering becomes drinking focused. :(

[pronoid]

Anyone who knew Luke knows a keg at Main Circle on the 4th was no fitting tribute to his memory. Luke was Family all the way and Family does not drink in church. Ever, let alone on the 4th at Main Circle. A beer at the RV is quite another matter.

This discussion should be about AGRO drunkenness, not drinking in general. Personally, I don't give a f*** what you put your body....until you start spreading AGRO energy and justifying it by pretending that only the drunks "do anything" and everyone else is just a "high holy" sitting in council "telling people what to do."

Council is the only time "we" exist as "us." And it's become all too rare. Council is where "we" decide how to do things together for the common good. It's the foundation upon which the Family is built. Without council, it's just a hippie campout in the woods.

Rainbow is about peace, love, and most of all, RESPECT. Get with the program or do something else....whether you drink or not.

[calicofuture]

If alcohol were freely allowed at the Gathering, it would be nothing more than a big drunken party in the woods. That's just how people are, at least in the United States. There is really no way around this, and I think the A-Camp system is the best possible compromise.

I drink frequently, but moderately, when I'm living in the city. At my first Gathering, I had a bottle of wine stashed in my pack that I brought out one night to sip on and share around the fire. A sister came up to me and told me that, by longtime consensus of the Family, there was no alcohol allowed inside the Gathering proper. I hadn't known about that, but once she told me, I realized it should have been obvious, because of all the hippies and bohemian types present, not a single one of them was drunk. If alcohol had been allowed, most of them would have probably had beers in hand, and a lot of them would have been obviously intoxicated. In fact, the absence of alcohol was a HUGE reason why the atmosphere of the Gathering was so healthy, positive, and pleasant.

Gatherings are places of special purpose and intent. I know that many of our brothers and sisters "CAN'T" abstain from the pleasure of alcohol, but that's what A-camp is for! Why can't the rest of us make the Gathering a time to at least take a break from alcohol. It really is good for the mind and spirit. I feel that the magic of the gatherings would be lost if alcohol energy had free reign.

[malakala]

I love you ALL! ...and I love the Long Trail IPA I'm currently enjoying...just sayin'. I think most "drunks" are obnoxious and shouldn't be allowed into sacred ground, but I also feel that if approached sacramentally my hops are far from harmful. Don't get sloshed, at a gathering or otherwise, just enjoy and avoid gluttony. Ultimately however, council decides. And what is concensus, is my path...I can always enjoy the juice of the barley before/after entering sacred space.

[TheRaven]

When we gather be it at a regional or the national our numbers often are larger than the local towns. As Luke said at the last Ocala Gathering council, every town has it's drunks/alcoholics& social drinkers. In every town there's a bar for them to go to and hang out. If we are true Rainbow brother and sisters then we accecpt everyone. Don't fight about, bitch about or complain about it. Build a bar for those who wish to drink and "GATHER" socially, pitch horse shoes or pic a guitar (no drums allowed)).It works and we've proved it. So come eat some meat and drink a beer this year in Ocala with us at THE RAVEN's NEST/A-Camp...

[Sunshine Al]

Looking forward to joining you for a beer at the Raven's Nest and sharing some of that Florida Sunshine.

[galagala]

i'm not steeped with Rainbow experience or anything. i've only been to one, last year. but, i felt that the "unspoken rule" or understanding was that A-camp is for those who want to be totally open and loose with their drinking/intoxication and nowhere else is it acceptable to be a belligerant drinking fool. i know people that had beer, wine, liqour at their own tent or camp but, it never came with them to any other part of the gathering. i think that's perfectly reasonable. i mean, the folks that want to bring a couple twelve packs or a handle of whiskey and a bottle of coke to their sight aren't the drinkers that we're concerned about. like, their just chillen at their sight, having a few. it's those people that only have one thing in mind when there's alkeehol around. those people are trying (in my personal opinion) to drown/run away from their rational thought and it becomes an excuse to be LOUD, OFFENSIVE, CHALLENGING, COMPETITIVE, ABUSIVE, and sometimes these able-bodied individuals require help to stand up and walk safely and it's just NOT condusive to the spirit or the vision of a Gathering. obviously not ALL drinkers are like this. i mean, i'm a drinker. i fucking LOVE MY HEINEKENS! and when i drink, i like to get PRETTY drunk but, i don't have the disposition to go looking for trouble or find a reason to argue with someone. anyways, i hope i made my point. my heads a little scrambled right now, so i'm sorry if i said anything the wrong way, i did the best i could.

[Sunshine Al]

It's about "Respect"

[ShantiPunx]

I respect the fact that everyone at Rainbow has rights. LEOs can bring guns, A-camp can bring a keg. There is no way to stop this without being hypocritical. Despite that we have decided no alcohol in the church, other rainbow doctrines can be construed as contradictory and drunks and not easily reasoned with.
The only way to do something about it peacefully and respectfully, if it gets out of hand, is move to another church. I pray that for the benefit of themselves and everyone else, those who choose to drink can do so in the appropriate place and manner.

[themnax]

i prefer the company of those who have not impaired their immagination along with their awairness. my strong feeling, based on years of observation, is that this contributes nothing possitive to anyone's own experience nor to the consiquent world we all have to live in. what one does in the company of only those who share their own feelings or their own, and does not defacto in any way impose on others, is of course of only their own concern. but consider to, the care it takes TO avoid imposing negativeness and unpleasantness on others. only thus can such negativity and unpleasantness be avoided.

not everyone finds the excitement of boisterousness gratifying, or even pleasant to be in the company of. and if there is one thing that does not need to be tolerated anywhere, it is thoughtlessness.

i'm not claiming to speak for rainbow gatherings as i've not been to one. these are simply my feelings generaly.

=^^=
.../\...

[wootier]

i need to drink...it helps facilitATE communication

[WayfaringStranger]

im really surprised with the results of the pole. i am an avid alcoholic, but at gatherings i dont drink, because i get a bit reckless and mischevious. it would be nice to say, that yes you can have your box of wine with your kids, but then you are inviting every shwilly with a bottle of whiskey to drink all day pissin people off. i say thats what A-camp is for. if you cant go 3 or 4 weeks with out a drink, then i guess youre just an A-camper.

[plumberjohn69]

Well my vote went to "not at all" and heres why. It seems to me the its the youngins that want the alcohol around judging from the posts, and the older folks can just do without. My guess is that the old adage "with age comes wisdom" comes into play here. Kids (up to age 25 is a kid to me) havent seen what we have seen and done, we try to warn them but its just as when we were that age, the lights are on and no ones home. while in great moderation alcohol is ok but for most alcohol cannot be taken in moderation. So then we MUST be honest with ourselves. I for one wont stop at 3 or 4 beers or shots and become sloppy drunk as most wont admit to. I gave up booze 4 years ago simply because i was tired of all that. Lets face it, it tastes like shit, makes you feel like shit the next day and makes you smell like a barroom bathroom floor. With age comes wisdom.

[earthmother]

Well my vote went to "not at all" and heres why. It seems to me the its the youngins that want the alcohol around judging from the posts, and the older folks can just do without. My guess is that the old adage "with age comes wisdom" comes into play here. Kids (up to age 25 is a kid to me) havent seen what we have seen and done, we try to warn them but its just as when we were that age, the lights are on and no ones home. while in great moderation alcohol is ok but for most alcohol cannot be taken in moderation. So then we MUST be honest with ourselves. I for one wont stop at 3 or 4 beers or shots and become sloppy drunk as most wont admit to. I gave up booze 4 years ago simply because i was tired of all that. Lets face it, it tastes like shit, makes you feel like shit the next day and makes you smell like a barroom bathroom floor. With age comes wisdom.

Ha! I just had to answer this one, 'cause I can relate so well. I used to drink to have some fun. Never an alcoholic thing. Just a thing of everybody else is doin' it and it's a party so why not. But I have NEVER particularly liked substances of any kind that make me feel less than in control over myself, or less than myself at all. And lets face it, with ENOUGH alcohol, you too can act stupid. Well, I don't like acting stupid - I don't get off on hanging with others who act stupid either. It's already hard enough to find truely intelligent folks to hang with. It occured to me eventually that it WAS stupid to drink and then spend the entire time trying not to act like I was drinking, 'cause that's what I do when I drink... And had no success at that by the way. Now that I have that concept figured out, I'm much more aware of the fact that alcohol actually RUINS my buzz. I like high, not low. And yea, it tastes like shit and I find it revolting to think that you would actually drink something that would burn in your lamp..... But, I think that taste may have something to do with whether you will become an alcoholic or not, 'cause some folks DO lke the taste, and it seems most folks who actually LIKE the taste tend to get carried away with drinking. Those of us who can barely stand the taste tend not to...

Cheers!

[RELAYER]

i prefer the company of those who have not impaired their immagination along with their awairness. my strong feeling, based on years of observation, is that this contributes nothing possitive to anyone's own experience nor to the consiquent world we all have to live in.

=^^=
.../\...
My best writings, poetry, and music comes from me when I drink. Which is everyday of the week ;) And I LOVE the taste of beer, as well as whiskey, brandy, vodka, and rum :tongue:

[sexbanshee]

I drank booze all my life until i became pregnant and my son is eight now....

When he saw his dad drinking a can of beer he said to me "why dont you drink beer mum" and I replied "because i gave it up when you were born' and he replied "oh good I would hate to have a drunk for a mother...."

Wow....out of the mouths of babes...

Booze and parenthood not always a good idea thinks me!

[RELAYER]

I drank booze all my life until i became pregnant and my son is eight now....

When he saw his dad drinking a can of beer he said to me "why dont you drink beer mum" and I replied "because i gave it up when you were born' and he replied "oh good I would hate to have a drunk for a mother...."

Wow....out of the mouths of babes...

Booze and parenthood not always a good idea thinks me!
Well, I drink when I have my son my half the week, but only when he is asleep and I dont get hammerd ;)

[sexbanshee]

I couldnt drink because our son didnt sleep too well, so I would have to keep a clear head most of the time....I dont mind the fact that his Dad does, but one of us have to keep sober.

One night I awoke with a start at 3am....i thought I heard him call out...when I got to his room I saw he had fallen out of bed and had got caught in the quilt. He was shouting "i love you mum"....when I freed him from the quilt, I asked him what was wrong and he told me he thought he was dying :( and wanted to tell me he loved me...he said he couldnt breathe

Oh God....can you imagine if I had been drinking and was in a deep sleep....

Thats why I choose not to drink......and plus the fact that when i was younger I did it regularly....and ended up getting horrible hangovers....

:)

[RELAYER]

I couldnt drink because our son didnt sleep too well, so I would have to keep a clear head most of the time....I dont mind the fact that his Dad does, but one of us have to keep sober.

One night I awoke with a start at 3am....i thought I heard him call out...when I got to his room I saw he had fallen out of bed and had got caught in the quilt. He was shouting "i love you mum"....when I freed him from the quilt, I asked him what was wrong and he told me he thought he was dying :( and wanted to tell me he loved me...he said he couldnt breathe

Oh God....can you imagine if I had been drinking and was in a deep sleep....

Thats why I choose not to drink......and plus the fact that when i was younger I did it regularly....and ended up getting horrible hangovers....

:)
No no I definitley understand, thats why I said I dont get smashed when I have him, but even when I drink a little (like, right at this very moment, hold on quick sip) my son crib is about 2 feet from the foot of my bed :) I have a room at my cousins house in center city now that I am single, but hey we are happy and thats what counts !

[sexbanshee]

Relayer

You sound like a very good and caring father....I love how you said "my sons crib is about 2 feet from the foot of my bed"

Aaaaahh bless you.....so young yourself too....it cant be easy....

I send you much luck and love for your son and you...

:)

[shameless_heifer]

I believe that moderation and respect are the key words. I guzzled 10 yrs of my life away it seems. When I decided to stop guzzling, I became more aware of myself and others.

I did not like myself much as a drunk. It was not good for my spirit. I always woke up feeling alone, empty and sick, sometimes even ashamed of my behaviour.

I don't mind people drinking as long as they can handle it, it's no fun to be at a gathering( or anyplace) having to babysit a bunch of drunk people.

Over consumption of alcohol usually brings out the worst in people, I have seen it turn the most polite and respective ones into pure D assholes after a half bottle of Jim Beam. Myself included.

We have small gatherings with 30/40 people several times a year and when ever there is a rift alcohol is always involved, which creates bad vibs for everyone.

I think after a limit people are not longer capable of making good decissions or to think rationaly, some folks have a low tolorance for alcohol and they become chemically imbalanced, some folks are beligerent already and alcohol just enhanches these negitive quailities.

I see no harm in the occaional use of livation in moderation. Just use good judgement and keep your head.

In most circles/camps you'd get a better reception sharing a pot of tea then a bottle of booze.

If you must drink, keep it low and be cool and don't go dumping your stuff on ones that don't induldge, respectively.

just my 2cent worth as a former drunk.

sh

[RELAYER]

Relayer

You sound like a very good and caring father....I love how you said "my sons crib is about 2 feet from the foot of my bed"

Aaaaahh bless you.....so young yourself too....it cant be easy....

I send you much luck and love for your son and you...

:)
Thank you :) Really, always makes me happy and feel better about my role as a father when people commend me, its not so easy but he is my life! And no ones life is easy :tongue:

[sexbanshee]

"he is my life"

what a very lucky boy....:)

and you deserve commending, sure you do

:)

[crud3w4re]

I believe that people should bring the beer, and then proceed to mind their own businesses on who's consuming the alcohol.

[sexbanshee]

I agree.... crud...

As long as there arent children involved....:)

[crud3w4re]

;) bah. If a child wants to give it a shot, why not? :P

[sexbanshee]

haha....why not....why not....?

I take it you aint a parent yet then lad...

Keep on hearing our small fella saying he dont want a drunk for a mother...talk about putting yer feet on the ground having a child....P H E W......!!!

Didnt know I was alive until he came to us!!

LOL!

[crud3w4re]

Nope. My imaginary child would have the option to do what he or she wants, but to know the consequences of actions. :p Of course, my opinions can always change, they have in the past ... If I would be held responsible, then I wouldn't allow it, why? Because I'd be examining the consequences of taking no action, so I would be looking out for my own best interest - indirectly. Selflessness through acts of selfishness lol

[sexbanshee]

Its so easy to say "how you would be"....the reality of becoming a parent can be something quite different.

Of course all people should be allowed freedom to do as they please, but unfortunately when children are young, they need "guidance"....

If I allowed my eight year old son to drink beer and eat copious amounts of junk food...we may have a few problems on our hands....

lol

[crud3w4re]

I didn't want to drink or smoke any weed at 8 years old. I only wanted to when I met friends that do that, peer pressure is the greatest threat.

[sexbanshee]

Oh I agree with the peer pressure thing Crud.....indeed I do....

Am trying to teach our son not to worry about running with the crowd. He is one of the only boys in his class with very long hair...when I say to him...he can choose how he wears it, he says "I dont wanna be like everyone else...I am me"....

Maybe he will take this attitude with other matters too....who knows?

[greysky]

yeah if you're 21 and want to drink do it.. i personally see drinking as wasting life. but its all a matter of choice and everyone has to make their own..

[Loveminx]

I'm Polish and I've always had my own wine glass during the holidays...

Drinking isn't that big of a deal as long as you don't get shitface drunk and cause others problems.

[wootier]

wine will never start a fight... it only makes u feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and i have a feeling its not the wine that does that... nothing beats a good bottle of some strong wine... in my humble, limited, opinion.

[Shithead_n_dozer]

wine will never start a fight... it only makes u feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and i have a feeling its not the wine that does that... nothing beats a good bottle of some strong wine... in my humble, limited, opinion.

haha. i gotta call this one out ive been involved in quite a few wine brawls, wine is waht makes me and alotta peopole i know get nuts because of the easy to drink factor you catch a buz faster. drinking wine right now DONT PISS ME OFF!!


just kidding!!!!!!!!!!

[wootier]

i think ide enjoy a real good bottle of wine with u...true, it may cause problems, but so does everything... plus ure drunk, so who gives a shit, i suppose thats where it all comes from

[JodyDnl]

from what i understand in rainbow history alcohol is not allowed past the entrance to hippie land. lets keep to the tradition and since a-camp has become one of our traditions if you want a beer just go to a-camp. come on people, its really not that hard. and if you decide to bring it in DO NOT drink it at main circle.Peace and love--Jody's camp and co

[friendlyghost]

Lets be honest. A tree is judged by it's fruit. If one's consumption of alchohol causes them to inflict mental, emotional, or physical harm upon another it is identified as bad fruit. The line we must be weary of is that line of at what point we blame substances for actions. Can any of us say that we have never seen an idividual who was out of control while under the inluence of a pychedelic or other form of intoxicant? We need to be focused on behavior management rather then substane exclusivity. Just a thought. Love you all.

[wizarddrew77]

Most of the old concerts and festivals had a great vibe and energy around them since we did not drink except wine once in awhile.
Take a look at Woodstock 69 and Woodstock 94....94 was a horror and most were drunk.
Anytime you take a large group of folks-the sun and beer you will have problems.
I'm sorry I also thought that The Rainbows had something to do with Black Elk and his vision of a Rainbow people?
Booze never goes well with anything Native American...I know I am part Lakota.

I say keep the beer and fire water home and keep it green.

[Skerb]

I think people who can drink a lot and have a propensity to transform into an altered state of mind know as an 'asshole', like me, should not do so. well, perhaps if their confined to a cage under watch where they can't hurt or offend others or themselves.
anyone can handle a drink or two, or a twelve pack, or a 30 pack.. but it will catch up with you one way or another and show you who was in control...

[Symple]

In my experience alcohol awakens the spirit of the extravert. It is about look at me, see me, and hear me. Smoke on the other hand awakens the spirit of introversion. It is about who and what am I. It is about who and what are you and what is our relationship about. It is about listening and exchange. Like I said this is only my experience and there are always exceptions to the rule. Also and mind altering substance usually amplifies what ever is in us to start with.

I have and always have had trouble with the “party” vibe. It is just not who I am. I love to dance with total abandon, to laugh and cry, to feel free. But the alcohol induced party thing is a different vibe. I don’t know how to articulate it.

I have never been to a Rainbow gathering although I would like to. I for one would not like it to be a drunken party seen.

How do I find out when and where Rainbow gatherings happen?

[omganesha]

I agree with Symple. Alchohol has a completely different vibe than smoke. Most of us who are older, would like to go to gatherings...maybe even for the first time!! It meets the "original hippie" in us. But just to hip you drinkers (and I have nothing against it in other situations) it's a drag and buzz-kill to be around drunk people in that kind of setting. You don't know it, because you are drunk. It ruins it for the rest. If you're that defensive about drinking, it means you might just become obnoxious..I knew someone (and I'm sure most of us do) who once he began to drink was truly awful and frankly, dangerous to be around. So, if folks want a little beer or wine (like at Woodstock) fine, but if they get out of hand..they should be out of there. No judgement, just for the higher good.....
Blessings...OmGanesha

[Pixiebelles]

I apologize in advance that I have a lot to say about this. I have given it a great deal of thought over the years and would like to share my insights and conclusions thus far. I welcome any challenge to my thinking - I like to see things in full view and allow myself the opportunity that someone might point out something I hadn't seen before.

During my teenage years and into early adulthood I drank frequently, as many of us can say. In college I worked as a bartender for a very busy bar in Savannah, GA, which allowed me to experience alcohol consumption from a sober point of view in may forms of personality.

I also have experienced a parent that drank excessively.

I have experience with pot, LSD, mushrooms, etc...


My conclusion is this:

The effect alcohol has on the brain has a very high tendancy to (especially in large quantities) blur and confuse thought. It does allow some that are more introverted to unleash inhibitions and relax in a social situation - but it is my experience that it does so because it deadens the senses enough for that person not to feel the anxiety associated with socialization that they may normally experience. In doing so it also seems to deadens positive attributes.

I have countlessly experienced that it can elicit certain behaviors in people that are negative in nature and often contradict their normal demeaners. It can amplify those qualities that we may consider our weaker traits.

I have rarely seen a situation where alcohol has been the factor that assisted the partaker in reaching a positive self-discovery or life changing conclusion or the experience of something coming into focus that may have been just out of reach before - UNLESS these awakenings occured following a very negative event resulting from drinking that came about after sobering up and realizing these gifts in the throws of remorse.


I have seen far less hostility in the use of marijuana and has, in my experience, been a substance that offers a certain reliabilty in respect to the effect it will have on individuals. In other words - if you've seen a friend smoke before - chances are they will react in a similar manner each time you see them smoke. You just can't say the same for alcohol which is guilty of bringing many a benign personality to anger and hostility or even violence without a level of provocation that make sense of the behavior.

I have experienced several occasions in which marijuana has been a contributing factor to deep meditation and introspection which can assist a person in self awareness and assessment which often lead to personal growth. I have also witnessed certain individuals that smoke it to "check-out" or to supress certain personal demons and have see that using the substance in these cases can have a powerfully negative effect - usually in the long run. The thing is - this seems to be the exception not the rule and is more of a self-destructive consequence than one that would effect a surrounding general population. Let's face it, someone that is walking a path of self-destruction can create a weapon of most anything - chocolate can become a negative substance in the hands of someone who is engulfed in this manner of thinking.


In the case of hallucinagens, again if used responsibly offers the opportunity for growth and discovery and connectivity that alcohol just cannot afford. Senses tend to be piqued rather than dulled. I do not think it is for everyone and once you gain the tools to reach the greater areas of consciousness on your own - I feel it's much more validating and impacting to do so without any substances whatsoever unless it's hydration or nourishment.


To me, the experience of a gathering more than enough to bring on a state of piqued awareness, openess, and accessabilty to those regions of our minds that allow you to more easily connect or socially interact because in tapping into them you tap into a REAL self-confidence - rather than being able to let loose because you've numbed your insecurities. There is a realness there that I feel is priceless. There is a growth in this process that will help you to more easily access confidence and contentment and relaxation even when you are not in ideal settings. If you try and find your carefree self anf confidence through alcohol - those insecurities will only become stronger when you aren't impaired.


Having said ALL THAT - a glass of wine amongst friends or a cold beer on a hot day isn't a bad thing.

But drinking to intoxication in a setting where you are afforded MUCH greater delights and a lasting powerful life experience seems to be counter-productive and my wish is that the Rainbow experience can become a much deeper and more meaningful one for everyone - and that can't be experienced when you are fuzzing out all of those groovy brain activities that come alive just on the energy alone.


It's a magical thing - and for people that are riding that energy wave - it can be a SERIOUS downer to be snapped out of it because someone intoxicated themselves and becomes out of control and intrusive.

Respect that and if you really would rather experience the feeling of drunkeness - just do so away from the inner circle. It's the heart of the magic. Better yet - drink some other time and choose to connect to the vibe and give the gift of sharing YOU and reap the amazing experiences.


Wishing Peace and Contentment all around!
Pixie

[Rainbowtoke]

Wurd...

[Symple]

Wurd...What does this mean?

[hippiestead]

wurd=cool, good groovy, a positive response

& in response to your other question of when & where Gatherings happen...the vague answer is all over & at all times...the not so vague answer is to check here, regionals are often listed on here & sometime during mid-late June the Annual info will be posted, or check welcomehome.org for info. There are Gatherings in Canada too, as well as other countries around the world....I'll try to bump up a thread with info about Canadian Rainbow for ya...

[hippiehillbilly]

i voted ok if kept low key when this poll started,if i could change it to not at all ,now i would

[sodabandito]

The gatherings is about being free and not imposing your beliefs upon others, so ANY vote of this kind , that is to decide the conduct of others- is to me any way- Anti- Rainbow.... but in light of what has been experienced and discussed here, Alchohol SHOULD be kept low key, as well as any other "mind-altering" substance, even my favorite one...good ole' Mary Jane!

[sodabandito]

Alchohol leave my dry, Now when its time for pie..Takin' it as they come, Alchohol, please give me some!!!

-Beck.....1994

[eshu]

umm, first of all I should say that I have not been to any rainbow gatherings. ahah and I'm from turkey, I just found this forum by google and well it's feelin' a bit weird to write in a forum that's quite completely based on USA and UK :)

though I haven't been in a rainbow, I've been to several underground goa trance gatherings (and soulclipse festival turkey 2006) in here and I feel rainbows do have more or less the same kind of unity of minds, emotions and peace and love. so I think I can talk about this subject;

I personally developed a dislike for alcohol and think that mind altering substances should be viewed as per their unique characteristics; alcohol "lowers" consciousness despite some other substances.

my questions are:
do you, family, see all substances as one? (I guess you don't but I wish to get some explanation in depth :) ) are all substances be kept within the a-camp?

and, is having more than one camp and dividing the family is a good solution? does this not lead to (and come from) the separatist influence of the "babylon"?

love you

[earthmother]

The gatherings is about being free and not imposing your beliefs upon others, so ANY vote of this kind , that is to decide the conduct of others- is to me any way- Anti- Rainbow.... but in light of what has been experienced and discussed here, Alchohol SHOULD be kept low key, as well as any other "mind-altering" substance, even my favorite one...good ole' Mary Jane!

This isn't about deciding the conduct of others. It's about stating preferences and what the total rainbow experience means to folks. Also, there has been some miscommunicaton at times over the alcohol issue, as in people NOT being aware that Rainbow's not just another party, and these people many times end up embarassing themselves by thinking that it's an accepted practice to, say, sip on a fourty ouncer at main circle. It's about keeping the vibe right, education, knowing where everybody's heads and hearts are at...

[earthmother]

umm, first of all I should say that I have not been to any rainbow gatherings. ahah and I'm from turkey, I just found this forum by google and well it's feelin' a bit weird to write in a forum that's quite completely based on USA and UK :)

though I haven't been in a rainbow, I've been to several underground goa trance gatherings (and soulclipse festival turkey 2006) in here and I feel rainbows do have more or less the same kind of unity of minds, emotions and peace and love. so I think I can talk about this subject;

I personally developed a dislike for alcohol and think that mind altering substances should be viewed as per their unique characteristics; alcohol "lowers" consciousness despite some other substances.

my questions are:
do you, family, see all substances as one? (I guess you don't but I wish to get some explanation in depth :) ) are all substances be kept within the a-camp?

and, is having more than one camp and dividing the family is a good solution? does this not lead to (and come from) the separatist influence of the "babylon"?

love you

Even in Rainbow where no one is rejected, mind altering substances are looked at according to their own merits. Some are felt to be something like religious sacraments, and some are seen more in a negative light. That is why A-camp came to be. You can't keep people from doing their drugs of choice, but you can keep circumstances such that they more or less have their "area" and if you DON'T want to be around a certain thing, theoretically, you don't have to be. It's absolutely all about respecting others. And when you get thousands of people camping in the woods together, this is a very big consideration. There are camps for just about any preference. It's not about separation as much as being able to find ways for that many different folks to all get along together.

[sodabandito]

Yeah, earthmother, I DO agree... something like sippin on a 40 at main cirlce should not be a practice....but , telling someone that ANY alchohol consumption nakes you an asshole ( I know you never said such a thing) is anti-Rainbow..to be honest , totall drugless-ness is probably the TRUE Rainbow way.

[earthmother]

I don't know about the "total drugless-ness" thing. Many native tribal rituals and spiritual practices include substances that the modern world considers to be "drugs", but as Rainbow tends to be based quite a bit on tribal living and spiritual nature, and is the real "great melting pot" as far as beliefs and practices are concerned, I'm not sure one could say that....

[josh55116]

Like Bob Marley said, "Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction." I totally agree.

[tuesdaystar]

Nothing is more refeshing than a beer sometimes, it's the alcohol abuse that really sets things out of balance, it's as healthy as a bunch of junkies in an alley and much much louder.

[blinkin]

I really like a good dank beer or two or 8 at the end of hard week,
and honestly bieng at a gathering doesnt stop me, though I sure as shit wont go up to A camp, I abhore violence, and tahts all I see up there, If I have a few beers Im smiling and chill

but I do absolutely agree not in main circle or around the wee ones,

just be chill about it, respectfull of others

[TurquoiseRose]

Drinking is dumb. Eat some mushrooms & don't hide from your mind.

But, I'm not saying anyone else ever HAS to believe what I believe, so I say keep it at A-camp.

[scratcho]

Surprises me that this is even an issue.Why would a bunch of alkys even want to go to a Rainbow gathering?Why would those who see the gatherings as spiritual, tolerate a bunch of drunken dick-heads to even be there?The old "do your own thing"ethic that we embraced in the 60s-????Lines have to be drawn in life--stands have to be taken.There's no easier way to fuck up a gathering of almost any kind than to tolerate alcohol there.Especially a gathering at which spiritual -re-conection is uppermost. That it's even being discussed makes it obvious that it's problematic.-I intended to go to the gathering,but if the old saying"the bad always drives out the good"holds true,as it usually does,it's probably only going to get worse.

[blinkin]

ok good point

BUT

whats spiritual too one may not be to another and can you honestly tell me those hundreds of kids strung out on drugs is a better scean?

im saying if its a sober thing cool, but why can some indulge there vices when others cant?

isnt it all respect?

[eshu]

substances vary and the vibes they carry also vary, as you all know dears :)

I was never fully into alcohol after all yet lately I quit alcohol consumption, totally. one can not infuse his/her judgements upon others yes; yet one must see the fine line between psychedelics and alcohol.

one takes the person upwards, to a higher level of conciousness; if used properly. it's not discharging but recharging for the whole gathering. daring, often.
yet the other, takes the person downwards, often to animalistic and low states of conciousness. this is not a situation I crave. it seems like an easy way of escaping from the reality.

on the other hand, forbidding something almost always assures its rise.
just, be :)

"to oppose something is to maintain it"
ursula k. le guin
;)

[scratcho]

Those for whom a spiritual transformation included phsychedelics AND had prior experience with alcohol ,wether thru family or personal use ,KNOW---just KNOW that alcohol is not an uplifting ,conscienceness raising drug.It is,in the end a drug very much favored by the "establishment"and is kept legal because it is extremely good for business.And of course because people want it.Need I go thru the litany of money made because of car crashes,domestic violence,ect,ect.Money to be made indeed.It's all well and good--but how does that make it right to include drinkers, that according to previous posters ,camp on the edge of a gathering of peace and re-connection with the idea of sloshing beer down or swilling whiskey,becoming rowdy,fighting and generally acting like -well---people that drink alcohol to excess?As turqoiserose said"Quit hiding from your mind".Eat some mushrooms ,get control of your mind or have your beer bust somewhere else.Of course,I don't have shit to do with the gatherings----I'm just responding to what I've read here and this is just my opinion.I hope folks will remember what I said in the previous post I made--that is "the bad always drives out the good".I've seen it happen again and again.Think about it.(I'm not AGAINST alcohol per se--I love to sit around with my boys,have some beers,toke up and laugh my ass off with 'em--it just seems the juxtaposition is inimical to a peacefull ,loving gathering---if people can't control themselves)-------------scratcho

[nutznfl]

Surprises me that this is even an issue.Why would a bunch of alkys even want to go to a Rainbow gathering?Why would those who see the gatherings as spiritual, tolerate a bunch of drunken dick-heads to even be there?The old "do your own thing"ethic that we embraced in the 60s-????Lines have to be drawn in life--stands have to be taken.There's no easier way to fuck up a gathering of almost any kind than to tolerate alcohol there.Especially a gathering at which spiritual -re-conection is uppermost. That it's even being discussed makes it obvious that it's problematic.-I intended to go to the gathering,but if the old saying"the bad always drives out the good"holds true,as it usually does,it's probably only going to get worse.
I dont Drink but bout a 6pack a year
but...
Are you gona be the one who comes into MY camp and tell me i cant drink
or puff a fatty or anything else i wana do, After all i pay my taxes, this is my land too

[scratcho]

No,brother--I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what or what not to do.I just have seen and been thru alcohol wars in my life---just voicing my opinion.Don't mean shit.

[alongyourpath]

I drink a 6pk a week or so. For me the Rainbow gathering is a spiritual journey for me. Weed and shrooms have their place because they are natural. Beer is man made and can take you to the lower realms of your mind, not really enlightening and such.

I for one don't think it should be at the Rainbow. A-Camp does give the whole vision and reality of the Rainbow a bad view to those that go there for the first time, which I did last year. The majority of these people could just stay at home and drink there, yet, knowing this is in part a spiritual mindset for most Rainbowers, it doesn't seem right.

Yet this is a free country and there are hardly anyone or group of anyones that will standup against it.

There was a good article dealing with A-Camp I found a few days back.- http://therainbowfamilytribe.tribe.net/thread/85768b78-562f-4c7b-a6b2-0f3815878a72

[unionjack67]

I can't very well bash drinkers while I'm smoking a joint. But, I will say that I don't hang around people who drink. I've had some terrible experiences with drunks and avoid them.

I personally have no problem if someone drinks and is mature enough to hold it. The tendancy of alcohol to promote violence and of being self destructive is a major turn off.

Keep in low key and I have no problem.

[alleycatinksters]

Ok if it's kept very low-key and out of plain sight. -or-
Bring in the beer kegs! Main circle here we come!!!

there's a lot of ground between those two choices. Hide yer beers like a leper hidin sores or pukin' drunk in church...

[unionjack67]

It isn't about "hiding" the alcohol. It's about holding your alcohol and making your public interactions friendly. There are way too many power drinkers, drunks, and socially unacceptable (violent drunks) behavior at what is supposed to be a peaceful gathering.

Alleycat, I think you miss the point.

[alleycatinksters]

eh, if ya think i missed the point, yer mistaken. i was pointing out the huge gap in choices in this overworked argument, to drink or not to drink at gatherings. you'd think that there would be some middle ground that would be acceptable. "Ok if it's kept very low-key and out of plain sight" sounds a lot like hiding to me.

as fer keeping it only at A-Camp, that is a seperatist comment that irks me to no end also. what makes everybody think that a-campers want every drunk in their camp? they have their own thing going, believe it or not, and don't appreciate every random drunk in the place hangin out schwillin & bein useless.

personally, i think kegs at main circle are just not practical - too far to tote the ice.

i don't drink. i do buy beers for my family drinkers when i can. i'm not one to force my beliefs on someone else's life. i will make them pick up the cans when they're done, though.

the point i was making is that the POLL is reedickyoolus - there's a lot of other options besides None, A-Camp only, "out of plain sight" (hiding) and kegs at main circle.

enuff said on this subject from me, i'm goin out to engage myself in some real life.

[unionjack67]

You do get the point. I do agree with you. Not every drinker is an A Camper. As I said before, "Out of Plain Sight" does nothing to solve the problem. It is more about people and the way that alcohol effects them. As much as I rag A-Camp types, I know the reality that there are always going to be trouble makers at gatherings and most of the time it will have some A-Camp origin. I understand that you don't like the separatist attitude, but it is for the safety of families and peace lovers.

I think this whole poll was to find others who are sick of A-Camp and power drinkers. There are a lot of us out there who despise A-Camp. It's not the alcohol itself.

There is no way to enforce any sort of prohibition. People who want to drink, toke. or smoke are going to no matter the opposition.

[alleycatinksters]

There are a lot of us out there who despise A-Camp. .well at least we know where YOU stand.

how about we make an AA-camp - anti-alchohol camp. you can all clump together in your little sanctimonious circle and dump on the rest of the people. then the moderate drinkers would be able to have a beer in the open and not have to feel like a sneak or a liar.

or, we could paint lines all over the gathering. drinkers over here, drunks over there, teetotalers over yonder.

but it is for the safety of families and peace lovers.we have a family. i am a peace lover. i've never once felt any danger or hate coming from a-camp. they are my family, i married an a-camper. picked him up at the bar, actually - asked him to take me for a ride on his harley. i'm just a scooter tramp in a tye dye.

my rainbow experience began at a-camp. there's real love and family there - we take care of each other. i visited rainbow land with my hubby, who is now on his fourth year sober. guess what? we got treated so shabbily that i really don't ever care to make the hike in again.

just don't push all your drainbow alky trash to a-camp. a-campers have enough clean up to do after everybody leaves nothing but footprints. yeah, right.

and now, a word from my hubby -

I don't have too much to say, that my better half hasn't already said. Your attitude reminds me of some yahoo on here aways back with the moniker 'AGRO_HIPPY" He talked some trash too- here, in cyberspace. When rainbow started, in '72- wine was drank at main circle. Does the fact that it was homemade make it alright? nah- only to those who need to judge others would split that hair. -- Tattoo Joe

[unionjack67]

It doesn't seem possible that you can be unbiased (anymore than I can be). All along in this thread you never mentioned that you married into A-Campe. Once you guys sober up come on back and reread the postings. When posting to a forum, it's always good to be upfront and not hide information that would discredit your opinion. I make no secret that I am anti-alcohol. I know, in reality, that A-Camp will never go away. People like A-Camp are like the Herpes... You can't ever get rid of them and they will always be there to cause problems.

My opinion is based on experience with alcoholics in life (not just the gatherings). You should have been upfront instead of being deceitful. You came to the thread saying that you were not A-Camp yet you now admit you were.

I am NOT A-Camp. While I have not figured out how to be part of the solution, I am definitely not part of the problem.


Peace to you... This thread is over for me.

[alleycatinksters]

You should have been upfront instead of being deceitful. You came to the thread saying that you were not A-Camp yet you now admit you were.i was not deceitful for even one minute. i didn't say i was or was not a-camp. i said the POLL was ridiculous, that "there's a lot of ground between those two choices", hiding beers or drinking at main circle.

Once you guys sober up come on back and reread the postings.i already said i don't drink. my (retired) a-camper hubby doesn't drink - he's on his fourth year sober. i don't know how much more sober i'm supposed be to dialouge with you. you should maybe re-read my postings, to familiarize yourself with my statements before you start shooting off at the mouth.

my gathering experince is this - A-CAMP HAS THEIR OWN FAMILY! and guess what, they've been hanging out with each other for years. YOUR "experience" with alchoholics is out of context.

i only really have two bitches about all the ANTI-ALCHOHOL people at gatherings - first off, they treat anyone that doesn't agree with their mind set as lesser humans. second, they figure that everyone that drinks should be forced into a-camp. like i said before and will say again, a-camp is their own family, brought together not only by alchohol consumption but also by being ostracized (read: to exile by ostracism 2 : to exclude from a group by common consent) by every other hippie dippie rainbozo in the woods. we as a FAMILY unit do not want to deal with every random drunk that shows up. all drunks are not friends. we don't know all those drunks. we don't want all those drunks in our camp EITHER. they are not our family just cuz they schwill beer.

you ARE part of the problem - you are generalizing, oversimplifying and exhibiting non-tolerance to anyone that doesn't agree with you. real life, even rainbow life, needs understanding and tolerance so we can ALL JUST GET ALONG! make a plan, work a plan, if it don't work, make a new plan. apparently all you anti-alchohol people aren't getting the message, that pushing all the drunks into a-camp DOESN'T WORK. shoving drunken strangers together and pushing them into a-camp only compounds the problem - they don't know us, we don't really want to know them either (unless they can spange enough for a keg). these drunks are causing all kinds of destruction and mayhem in our living room. and sometimes it completely backfires, like when a-camp family got permission from handy dan to drink at welcome home because the a-camp CAMPSITE, that a-campers set up, had been overrun by all the random drunks. pretty amazing year, cuz handy dan don't let nobody drink at welcome home - but he took pity on the a-camp FAMILY and shared his campfire with them.

so why don't all you anti-alchohol people come up with some other plan - cuz this SOBER a-camper and her SOBER a-camper husband will be expelling random drunks from our family's camp where ever we happen to be, shoving them back into the woods to commit acts of random destruction and mayhem someplace else.

arrrgh to you!

[TheRaven]

alleycat we love you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!get em girl !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[coyotesister]

i quit drink'n a little over two and 1/2 years ago for MY sake...will that stop me from going and hang'n with the family in a-camp? definately not! i can't even tell you how many good times i've spent with the a-campers round the campfire, play'n old tom waits on de guitar and sing'n... i know that alot of craziness happens in a-camp/park'n lot land...but i think it's really unfair how all the blame falls on the a-campers shoulders. duh...their the closest to the front gate...they are our moat... it makes me sad to see the lack of tolerance in alot of folks posts here. where is my compassionate family? i agree with ohhhh i can't remember who said...(this was a loooong frigg'n thread to read but i did it ) that the hike into the main site has gotten shorter and shorter....this makes it easier to carry a keg to main circle folks. when i first started going to the gatherings the hikes in were at the very least 2 miles or so. quite a difference now...i was shocked in idaho when i left the park'n lot crossed a small foot bridge walked round a small bend up over one slight hill and tah-dah you were in the gathering.

i just want you all to know...where ever you are on the path, i love you, i respect you...we all stumble from time to time....but as a family it is our duty to one another to lift each other up...without judgement...don't we get enough of that BS in babylon?

[Cheerio_n_Miranda]

i quit drink'n a little over two and 1/2 years ago for MY sake...will that stop me from going and hang'n with the family in a-camp? definately not! i can't even tell you how many good times i've spent with the a-campers round the campfire, play'n old tom waits on de guitar and sing'n... i know that alot of craziness happens in a-camp/park'n lot land...but i think it's really unfair how all the blame falls on the a-campers shoulders. duh...their the closest to the front gate...they are our moat... it makes me sad to see the lack of tolerance in alot of folks posts here. where is my compassionate family? i agree with ohhhh i can't remember who said...(this was a loooong frigg'n thread to read but i did it ) that the hike into the main site has gotten shorter and shorter....this makes it easier to carry a keg to main circle folks. when i first started going to the gatherings the hikes in were at the very least 2 miles or so. quite a difference now...i was shocked in idaho when i left the park'n lot crossed a small foot bridge walked round a small bend up over one slight hill and tah-dah you were in the gathering.

i just want you all to know...where ever you are on the path, i love you, i respect you...we all stumble from time to time....but as a family it is our duty to one another to lift each other up...without judgement...don't we get enough of that BS in babylon?
i coudnt agree with ya more, ya hit it right on the head.

yeehaw and we all love mr. waits.

the best times ive had at gatherings consist of drinkin beer throwin horse shoes and just talking and shootin the shit up front, ya know??

i think the frilly hippies need a scape goat and someone to talk down on to make themselves look 'holier than thou'

[Fawn]

"The government that governs least, governs the best"...to dis-allow something brings out desires and tendencies toward the banned that did not exist previously. Banning something does not mean that people wont do it. By "allowing" it to exist we are able to somehwat control it, and keep it limited to certain areas. People are very different from one another and everyone has certain "quirks", if you will. I am believer that everyone should make their own choices 100% of the time, for better or for worse, and we should all learn to work with one another, not against. I believe alcohol should be allowed.

[MaryJane69]

very interesting poll and topic. im new to all this so i cant say much besides people should know there own limits. i'm old enough to know that I can have a few drinks and get to a point where i am just a bit more cheerful and chatty than usual.

if someone knows they have a tendency to get violent, they shouldnt be drinking.

i will probably have a hidden flask and spike a few of my drinks but no one will know. and no one will guess from my behaviour. no harm, no foul. i'm sure whoever has been doing this, already has been, and for ppl that cant handle their booze, they will be found out soon enough

[geckopelli]

At the '07 Ocala gathering I camped at back gate (I won't go near A camp) and handed out around 350 cans of beer (and 35 cartons of cigs- which I fell guilty about) to brothers and sisters over the course of a weekend. However, I used a bartenders discretion- none for breakfast and I cut off anyone who appeared to me to be heading toward counter-productive intoxication.
I know that's sounds a bit nazi, but the choice to provide the alcohol was mine, and the responsibility for any acts of stupidity spawned would also, at least partially, be mine. And I'm heavy into taking responsibility for one's actions.
We had alot of fun- and not one alcohol driven incident.
But I would not personally take a quanity of alcohol to main circle, and I hope no one else does, eithier. But it's thier choice.

[Mycelium]

I think that A-Camp is where the alcohol should stay. That being said, my wife and I have often brought a bottle or two of very good wine to share around our personal campfire. I don't approve of getting drunk. That's a far cry from a glass or two.

mmmmm... shiraz

[Bareftinafieldofwldflwers]

I wouldnt personally drink at a gathering

Do I think its cool if other people drink?
well if you wanna drink go ahead... at a-camp
know your limit and dont forget the purpose of these beautiful events

Peace<3:grouphug:

[kryn_taal]

Really I think this is a simple question... Alcohol dulles the senses exponentially with each drink, & as these gatherings are intended to pray & work towards peace I would think the answer should be quite obvious.. If you cannot hear another brothers words, how can you hope to understand them? If you cannot see the world, how can you see it's ills? If you cannot remember yesterday, how can you know you acted peacefully? A small quantity of alcohol will not prevent these things, & in fact would probably go unnoticed. It's when it's taken to an extreme level that there's a problem, that we all notice, & peace is disrupted. I myself like to smoke, but at the gatherings I smoke very little for the same reasons; I wouldn't bother being there if I couldn't remember it a week later.. Personally I feel that anything in mild moderation is fine, it's in excesses that problems arise & people get ugly. Alcohol, pot, shrooms, etc. Just exercise caution Family. I may personally feel that alcohol is evil & people seem to have a harder time knowing thier limits with it than ANYTHING else on this planet short of tobaccoo, but if you really can drink just a bit & be happy then more power to ya brothers & sisters...
Lovin You!

[King Robert]

<<i just want you all to know...where ever you are on the path, i love you, i respect you...we all stumble from time to time....but as a family it is our duty to one another to lift each other up...without judgement...don't we get enough of that BS in babylon?>>

I have only a few gatherings under my belt as of lately, and a few in my early, hippy years that we didn't call Rainbow.

Coming back home to me was strange. I hung with the most popular kitchen at the time. Most stayed away from me because I was a stranger, others like Zak went out of their way to make me feel comfortable and at home. Others yet showed great disrespect by going through my pack and taking what was not theirs. In this group was an A-Camper with his little brown pit and warm beer, sitting on the path all alone. Next to Zak of course, this man was who I bonded with. I felt more excepted at A-Camp than in the woods. I was judged by some there also, don't get me wrong. That's just the human way of life I guess. I have no point to all this gibber other than to say when I make out my list of things to bring, I now add some beer and a small bottle of Jameson's to share with my A-camp family.

[Anubhuti]

i remember when you couldn't say *uck at a gathering,and if ya did you were sorry,but
i'm like the brother that remembers when the hike in was 2 miles minimum,that helps keep rowdiness and such from the main circle and kids village,before i read about the gasballs at Kiddievillage this year i heard about vehicle access all the way to main circle ;that is bullshit,and you combine alcohol with easy cop access there is the potential for much greater violence.Please keep the drunken cops far away in their air-conditioned trailers.
I just have a good feeling about the Gathering in NM next year,I think the word will come
down from on high to show us a little respect.

[hydrohippie1]

Do u or any one wana step on broken glass.
people waana fight when they drink....Cant believe people cnt go a week w/o drinkin........I do and I drink everyday........
\Peace

[bekyboo52]

k, i've never been to a rainbow gathering (but i want to go), and id probably (i dont know) have 2 be at a kids village or something (im 15) but i voted on the a-camp thing because it seems like this is something important so if there is alcohol then it should be in a designated area, im not against drinking at all in general (in case you care my mum lets me drink with her and sometimes my friends , you were a kid once, u know) but if its somthing meaningful then, well you know my opinion.... :D

[bekyboo52]

also when i do get drunk with my friends i actually dont turn out to be an asshole, i end up being the one who tells the assholes to sit down, relax, and have some coffee......... :D

[Lolli]

I think as adults we should be able to chose out own path. I think as members of a global society we should consider how those choices may affect those around us, and act accordingly. Drinking a few is cool. Drinking to the point of a coma is silly. Chose wisely.