The only thing thats real...

[dapablo]

A Hello to you dear reader.

Paul, eldest of 5 siblings, born a cockney from Irish Father and London Docklands Mother.

Catholic/Methodist rearing and morals, though not one who holds any faiths.

I find myself nowadays being a husband and father to two little girls, Shannon 12 and Fay 10. A son also currently at University trying to study Politics and Philosophy.

You'll find us out and about at BD's and an odd festival or two down in the South West. I'm also licenced to attend local parties, beach, barn or field, been quite a while now on the dancefloor and I don't get off. Took an odd liking to rythme and movement many moons ago.

Like music about me and will strum an occaisional tune on my 12 string guitar.

There you go, a reference if you want to say Hello back. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Hello back, have a cup of koffee and one of the more potent varieties of kakes we offer. So, where is your son at uni, is he enjoying his course? I'm doing something vaguely similar.

And what made you lose your faith?

[dapablo]

Chris is a Northampton and is haveing to retake his first year due to too much emotional stress over the last 12 months, girlfriend with the big C and a sexual assault.

We've lived apart for most his life so when were together I did try to make most of our conversations meaningful, hence, so he says, the courses he chose. :)

I don't really remember ever having Faith. Catholic schooling till end of Juniors and I was the only one in my year who didn't take Confirmation, could never believe in an interventionist deity.

I am a believer in the ability of religion to assist youngsters in perceiving a greater reality beyond their own ego though, so have encouraged mine to be involved with the local christian community.

Thanks for the biccy, very tasty. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Oi, hands off, I said a kake, the biccies are mine :p Mine, or I will help you not. Ahem.

How come you and your son have lived apart most of the time?

And sorry to hear about his girlfriend, will she be ok?

[dapablo]

Christopher James born 5-4-87, fruit of my first marriage.

His mother fell in love with her boss and informed me that I was subsequently surplus to requirements. I have spent time and enrgy on him though I've lived elsewhere. In my days of travel I used to visit him every other Giro for the weekend and have kept a weekend phonecall going for years now, slightly less of late.

Chat to his lady on msn, am as I type, nothing heavy but offers of support as you do, she seems comfortable with us, which is cool.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Ooh, always wondered, why the name dapabol?

[fountains of nay]

Hiya fellow south-westerner! How be the land of cornwall treatin ya? :D

[dapablo]

Ooh, always wondered, why the name dapabol?

Now, I just mean, well perhaps spell it correctly and I might, I don't know, what do you do with them, bleedin education system, that or no manners :)

[dapablo]

Hiya fellow south-westerner! How be the land of cornwall treatin ya? :D

The lands treating me well, gave me a lady and two beautiful little ladies. A fine hamlet with a small school 3m away. Idyll for a man reared in the throngs of east london to raise a family. A small cove 10min in the car. Plenty of party people over the years to keep one entertained.

Aye, proper job. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Now, I just mean, well perhaps spell it correctly and I might, I don't know, what do you do with them, bleedin education system, that or no manners :)
Hahaha, Dapablo I mean. Sorry, captain sentence structure :p

[dapablo]

Never you mind my rubbish sentences. :)

My first ever entry on a Spectrum Highest score table was Pablo, Paul was just a bit dull for this new world of computers.

Comes around to giving oneself an internet name and discovered Pablo obviously had already been taken so tried Dadpablo, which didn't really scan so I reduced to Dapablo which did, simple as really.

[fountains of nay]

The lands treating me well, gave me a lady and two beautiful little ladies. A fine hamlet with a small school 3m away. Idyll for a man reared in the throngs of east london to raise a family. A small cove 10min in the car. Plenty of party people over the years to keep one entertained.

Aye, proper job. :)
Aye, you gotta love ye Cornish :D

[Peace-Phoenix]

If you look back on your life, would you change anything you've done?

[dapablo]

Always was an easy one that, no I manage to live a life of no regrets.
It is easy enough when I find it difficult to think of anyone I've harmed. My first wife did declare my inadequacies but has since apologised for her actions, so all was fair, as I did believe, there then.

Choosing my partner in a rational manner rather than in an emotional one has caused me some difficulties, so maybe upon reflection a different decision might of relieved me of that stress, but when looked at as a package wonderful wife, beautiful kids, no other choice is imagineable.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Do you want any more kids?

[dapablo]

Do you want any more kids?
You offering, nah that don't work, oh unless your asking on behalf of someone else ? :)

Now at the ripe old age of 44 the consideration of more children was ditched a little while back, but I suppose the question could still be answered further if you wish to read.

Want - as a desire held by the mind does not relate, but want on the emotional level could be answered in the affirmative. To perceive and nurture the fruit of ones flesh is a wonderful experience and brings pure heartfelt joys. Work is involved but life is work anyway so why stress, enjoy them.

If the fates went crazy I would gladly be a parent again, but touch wood they don't. :)

[Sebbi]

What's the best thing about fatherhood?

[flowerchild17]

How do you think your life woud be different if you had never had children?

[dapablo]

What's the best thing about fatherhood?
Sentimentality, if you enjoy that sort of thing.

From a personal point of view unconditional love is a thing to behold. A being who requests your approval and shows pride when received. Joy at your arrival and sadness at your departure, also a duty fullfilled, a completion, which at the same time increases your awareness of more.

I could go on... :)

[dapablo]

How do you think your life woud be different if you had never had children?
Thats difficult, as mentioned the act of parenthood alters one phsychy, so I'm digging back to when I was 25 and trying to remember, blimey you've a way to go before you get there even. :)

At one stage I lived as a traveller but only to the UK and Ireland, I wanted to go further abroad but remained within easy travelling distance of London so that I could keep regular contact with my son, maybe my feet would of wandered further if he had not existed, that would have radically changed things I suspect.

The biggest difference I percieve though is the matter of mentality. I would of struggled with the inability and I do feel compassion for those that can't, that's a tough deal.

Mostly negative thoughts about that situation, obviously not something I'd like. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

What was your own childhood like?

[dapablo]

Mostly felt rather than thought nowadays. Very early years feel warm and comfortable with perhaps at tinge of jealousy over a soon born sibling. Traditional schooling went well with easy grasp of the 3R's, playing in the streets with friends and neighbours, rare traffic. All changed about the time of Secondary education, new school no-one known. Didn't ever settle with friends so had a pretty torid time meant I left schooling a couple of years prior to exams. Blundered a couple of passes.

Young days good, teens crap.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Were you ever bullied?

[dapablo]

I did suffer a bit of name calling, I remember my mother gave me a dodgy haircut once and I was given the name Helmet which then transposed into the name of a German football manager Helmut Schone, onto just calling me Schone. Slightly amusing if you know a little bit of german.

Got pushed about a little but nothing too heavy, like a lot of people I imagine. The thing that was difficult and still lingers today was exclusion. It meant that I was unable to develop my people skills properly and I still struggle to this day in communicating in a manner that others find comfortable.

I have started to question the above conclusion over the last couple of years as I observe my eldest daughter also having difficulty in forming relationships with her piers, my father was also a poor comunicator, so I am now considering the likelehood of genetic predetermination.

[Peace-Phoenix]

I used to be quite shy and poor at communicating. For me that changed with a bit more confidence and self belief. Sometimes too much, perhaps as it was, at first, a barrier to hide the shyness, which I think, I've overcome now.

When did you become a 'hippy'?

[dapablo]

Memories of young man. I had a cousin, say 6 years older than me who was an original.
I liked him then one day he said he was leaving to travel and left me a single to look after till his return, "White Rabbit", always looked up to him and so alligned myself to what I considered hippy principles, love, peace, compassion and environmental concerns.

He returned to London shortly after the break up of my first marriage, took me to a Grateful Dead concert and gave me my first acid. Investigated their philosophies, took a liking and wear the t-shirt. :)

So accepted the label twice in a way, once as a kid and then again in my twenties.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Memories of young man. I had a cousin, say 6 years older than me who was an original.
I liked him then one day he said he was leaving to travel and left me a single to look after till his return, "White Rabbit", always looked up to him and so alligned myself to what I considered hippy principles, love, peace, compassion and environmental concerns.

He returned to London shortly after the break up of my first marriage, took me to a Grateful Dead concert and gave me my first acid. Investigated their philosophies, took a liking and wear the t-shirt. :)

So accepted the label twice in a way, once as a kid and then again in my twenties.
Have you seen Almost Famous? Your cousin leaving to travel and leaving you a single that changed the way you think reminds me of that....

[dapablo]

Sorry Sal canna say I have, but perhaps I shall, cheers.

[Peace-Phoenix]

What, then, is your favourite film of all time? What film character is most like you?

[dapablo]

Oh dear, "Films and TV", never a favourite in Trivial Pursuit.

Titles that come to mind are, "Lassie Come Home", "Color Purple" and "Harvey", most films are enjoyed only for the time spent in observing the story, they don't seem to carry any significance beyond that moment so don't linger.

Couldn't place myself as any character I'm afraid as suggested above, might like to be Forrest Gump maybe. My son did call me Yoda many moons ago, seemed to of liked that and repeat it. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

How about any fictional character from any medium?

[dapablo]

That got me thinking didn't it?

After a few weeks contemplation the answer is no.

I found that situation rather peculiar, the question then became why not, and the answer to that is hard to find.

[flowerchild17]

What did you want to be when you grew up?:)

[dapablo]

I always had plans to be a family man with children and am content with that choice.

Workwise I felt comfortable in my chosen career as a draughtsman/designer. It seemed the easiest way to use my pleasure at drawing as a means of earning a living. Still do the same trade now with design and detailing timber roof structures, though now it is all computer based, creating 3D design models for every different project still keeps me interested and.

Not the most taxing of realities but pleasurable nonetheless. :)

[flowerchild17]

Sounds a lot like me, ever sinceI can remember I've dreamed of a family of my own, having a big house full of kids and friends and family...

When did you start drawing? Were you one of those kids like me who would constantly draw on their school folders and get yelled at for it?:P hehe...

[dapablo]

I've always enjoyed pencil sketching from a young age, usually copying what I saw rather than random sguiggles. Painting was always a bit more tricky, putting paint over the drawings usually spoilt them.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Are you musical in any way?

[dapablo]

Maybe. I've sang all my life and also been told to shut up all my life.

I've played a 12 string guitar now for 16 years. First picked a guitar up to learn when the ripe age of 28, something to do after the end of my first marriage, and learnt mainly on the street. Will perform an occaisional song round a fire.

I've played some percussion in a couple of short term bands as well.

[lithium]

Would you say you have noticed anything missing from your house recently?

[dapablo]

Well I left my phone charger in Gravesend a week ago, apart from that I would say all is present.

Couple of things missing because I haven't done them yet, namely a work-surface for the utility room and the celtic knotwork to the front elevation I've told everyone I am painting.

[Peace-Phoenix]

What's your favourite day of the year?

[lithium]

Have you ever stolen anything?

[dapablo]

What's your favourite day of the year?
I think I'll choose the saturday of the Beautiful Days Weekend, it's been fun for the last 4 years now.

[dapablo]

Have you ever stolen anything?
Loads of lighters, but if your really asking about deliberate theft, then yes but not very often. The last deliberate would of been about 14 years ago when I stole some petrol from a garage when short from driving back from london, and before that I would reckon a childhood shoplift.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Someone I know stole candyfloss from a kid at a funfair recently - pretty muchy as close as you get to stealing candy from a baby!


What's the worst thing you've ever done?

[dapablo]

Someone I know stole candyfloss from a kid at a funfair recently - pretty muchy as close as you get to stealing candy from a baby!Thats just bloody sad ain't it.


What's the worst thing you've ever done?
Looks over shoulder. I've feel I've been very active in living a life with the principal of no harm so again nothing particularly bad. The worst thing is love outside of marriage, which I firmly deny was within my control, but unfortunatly does still involve the concept of betrayal, that would have to be the worst.

[Peace-Phoenix]

I've always thought my friends' parents who have done drugs have been pretty cool. Do your children know that you do drugs? If so, what do you tell them about drugs? If not, would you tell them about them? And what advice would you give them if they wanted to do them in later life?

[dapablo]

I have a 19 year old son and two girls of 10 and 12.

Been a regular smoker since the boy was 3. All three children observe me skinning and smoking, I've never deemed it something I should hide, so it is perceived as narural behaviour, my visitors if inclined are able to do also. Chemical substances are not part of my life except when attending a party, but then the little ones aren't around.

We are obliged to discuss drugs when the children hear of it from schol teachers. I tell them that everything they consume can be classed as a drug, and the most widely used and abused is of course alcohol, I ask them to observe the behaviour of their friends parents, they're bound to know the odd alcoholic. Nothing is bad per se, just legal and illegal.

Had bigger conversations with the boy because of his age and the same line exists but with the obvious caution about mind altering substances, namely find a guru to do your first with. The best prevention for misuse is hard work, if your a busy body then you won't have the time for dependence.

[Peace-Phoenix]

What's your favourite high?

[dapablo]

I have enjoyed many a pleasant evening on MDMA, I enjoy a dance and smiles to go with it.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Always good fun. Do you tend to get pills, or powdered MDMA?

[dapablo]

Always been powder, except for very early doors when it used to be called Ecstacy. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Where do you end up finding good MDMA powder? Never had much luck. Though never had any cause to complain about quality of pills either....

[dapablo]

lol, now that I can't say can I. :)

Local is about as good as it gets. I would say I don't have to ask very often the boys are usually at the same parties I go to.

[Aunty Al]

If you could design the line-up for next years BD Saturday, who would you put on?

[dapablo]

Good one Al. I would assume the Levellers to do the Sunday.


11-Dawn The Grateful Dead

9-11 Neil Young

7-9 3 Daft Monkeys

5-7 Faithless

3-5 Tori Amos

1-3 Waterboys

[Peace-Phoenix]

You've put the Daft Monkees in some distinguished company! But they are a wicked band. Their performance this year was probably the best I've seen from them. What bands have you discovered at Beautiful Days that you've really liked?

[dapablo]

Well the Monkeys for a kick off, saw them first time at the first BD's.

Alabama 3 heard the name but only heard them for the first time there.

Others that come to mind:-
Dan Donnelly lovely Irish singer, saw tears in the eyes of the audience.
Jill Sobule a sweet canadian lady with quirky songs.
The Dhol Poundation, brilliant drumming.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Dhol Foundation were pretty good. I was sceptical at first. Tahmina loved them and rushed backstage to accost one of them straight after their performance.


If you could see one great band or artist from history, at the height of their careers, who would it be?

[dapablo]

I would of loved to of been around for early Dylan, not just him but the whole vibe of the era.

[lithium]

What do you do for a living?

[dapablo]

I started my trade straight from school at 16 as an apprentice draughtsman and from there into design. This started in the steelwork industry and then onto timber engineering.

I now work as the commercial estimator for one branch of a timber engineering firm, producing roof designs and quotations which I then try to secure as orders, once that is achieved the files are passed on for others to produce approval drawings and production. I travel to Dorchester for Wed/Thu and work from home the other 3 days of the week.

Tried to upload a drawing but to no avail, never mind.

[Mary Poppins]

Christopher James born 5-4-87, fruit of my first marriage.

His mother fell in love with her boss and informed me that I was subsequently surplus to requirements.
Terribly sorry, I'm sure the reallity of it was't funny but the way you've phrased this tickled me pink dapablo!!! Where is the ROFL emoticon when I need it??

Hullo and welcome to the Karma Kafe and the forum in general!!

I also LOVE dancing, don't do it enough though!!! :nopity:

[Peace-Phoenix]

If you weren't living in Cornwall, where else would you want to be?

[dapablo]

Terribly sorry, I'm sure the reallity of it was't funny but the way you've phrased this tickled me pink dapablo!!! Where is the ROFL emoticon when I need it??Me too, fell out of my mouth a few months back in conversation with another, afterwards I thought that was worth remembering. :)Hullo and welcome to the Karma Kafe and the forum in general!!Hello back at ya. I also LOVE dancing, don't do it enough though!!! :nopity:Next time I do I'll think of you. :)

[dapablo]

If you weren't living in Cornwall, where else would you want to be?
S'funny with such basic contentedness, perceiving an environment elsewhere that was worth inhabiting is quite tricky. Sure a bit more sunniness might be apprecited, but not too much, what else is required more than I have got. It might be interesting to have wealth to transport a family around the world for visits, but I believe it healthy for children to grow in an caring environment so a stable home is required somewhere. Nothing perceived greener elsewhere for me to fulfill that duty.

When they have reached maturity or left home, not necessarily one and the same thing, my horizons might broaden but I don't have a need to fly, unsure of the concept as a reality I would wish to consider.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Been abroad much?

[dapablo]

You've switched your brain into auto-pilot haven't you ?

Little jaunts to Germany, France and Ireland is about it. The further reaches of the globe always seemed a bit like overindulgence, considered briefly but quickly discarded.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Auto pilot, why? And why an over indulgence to go to the further reaches? Some amazing places out there that you should see before you die....

[scratcho]

Really enjoying this thread----dapablo,is there a timber industry there?With lumberjacks and such?

[lithium]

Have you never flown?

[dapablo]

And why an over indulgence to go to the further reaches? Some amazing places out there that you should see before you die....
I was raised in a working class, council estate environment, the only people able to jaunt about the planet were those with cash to burn, the stigma still remains.

I am aware that this does limit me in the ability to observe strange and beautiful places and peoples, but lingers nonetheless.

And whats all this killing me off already, bleeding cheek ? :)

[dapablo]

Really enjoying this thread----dapablo,is there a timber industry there?With lumberjacks and such?
Funny people ain't they. :)

All our timber is imported from Scandanavia, and nowadays all with full chain of custody paperwork to ensure that it comes from renewable plantations.

There is some Pine forestation around this country but that I believe may be more to do with the paper industry, apparently better structural timber grows abroad, something to do with the climate I imagine, these are harvested by big machines, no-one does any climbing that I've seen.

You can see some of the old skills still being used and taught but mainly as a sideshow at Count fairs.

[dapablo]

Have you never flown?This I have done twice. The first time was with my Secondary school when involved in an exchange experience. I flew out to Germany and back. I don't remember much about the flight though I have some nice memories about the visit.

The second time was say, blimey, 20 years ago on a work related trip to Edingburgh, why do I keep telling people I've never been to Scotland, thats just reminded me that I have.

[lithium]

To go back a few pages, something caught my eye...


Got pushed about a little but nothing too heavy, like a lot of people I imagine. The thing that was difficult and still lingers today was exclusion. It meant that I was unable to develop my people skills properly and I still struggle to this day in communicating in a manner that others find comfortable.

I have started to question the above conclusion over the last couple of years as I observe my eldest daughter also having difficulty in forming relationships with her piers, my father was also a poor comunicator, so I am now considering the likelehood of genetic predetermination.Have you looked into the possibility of Aspergers? I think the whole Aspergers / autism spectrum is so wide that many of us would say we are
somewhere on the scale. I've always had real trouble with these things too, but it's possible to compensate and live a fairly normal life. Only in quite extreme cases usually involving developmental brain damage does it really cause problems with learning difficulties and living a full life.

What is your opinion on the diagnosis of such things as this as mental illness? The human race has always been this way, with a wide variety of different personality types. Do you think it can be helpful or is it problematic to diagnose these aspects of personality as a "disorder"?

Have you ever suffered from any mental illness?

[dapablo]

The thought had crossed my mind after reading about other peoples difficulties, though to diagnose feels somewhat hypocondriatic. With the fantastic range of personality that mankind can enjoy there are bound to be some that don't fit comfortably with the majority, law of averages I suppose. I don't believe my life could be classed as problematic, maybe a little peculiar.

Those on the edge tend to be the thinkers, tend to be the holy men rather than the warrior, perhaps a place for all in a healthy society. To classify those that may have an autistic measurement as unhealthy I believe would be damaging because as far as I'm aware other than drug therapy there's not anything particular one can do about it. More general awareness would be good to assist those that feel alone and unsure about their reality might be beneficial though.

Never felt mentaly ill, nor ever been suggested I was, so probably not. Sadness for lengthy periods twice but wouldn't say I was ill sure it's perfectly natural, grin and bear and wait the time.

[flowerchild17]

How do you deal with those hard times, and what's your best meathod for stress-busting?

[dapablo]

I've always kept it internalised which isn't the best way to deal with stressful occaisions, will keep a smile on my face and hope the world smiles with me.

I reckon my guitar and voice are my best method of stress busting, either with a sad song or an angry one.

[flowerchild17]

I agree, I find music to be my best outlet of stress, which explains why I play so much...

When did you start playing guitar? Do you think you have a good voice?

[dapablo]

No real music in my childhood, apart from a vague memory as a boy about a cousin playing a guitar, he disapeared for many a year, but the seed was planted with him. Didn't do anything about it till the breakup of my first marriage, seemed like something to occupy myself with, I would of been about 27. Purchased a Billy Bragg and Folk songbook and tried the 3 chord bash. Lived much of my life then on the street so learned to play in the park or the street corner, occaisionaly with a cap in front.

Singing songs has been something I've always done, even in my places of work, never been much appreciated though, I can be a bit flat. It's never stopped me though and as I've got older and don't need to be so sweet my singing has improved. I rarely sing the hits though, too many people want to hear those songs as they remember them, and I can't sing that good.

[flowerchild17]

Ah yeah, I know how to sing in theory, but my vocal chords dont cooperate, and I often sound like a dying cat who can hit two octives when I attempt singing, but it's gotten slightly better as my pitch control on wind instruments has gotten better... I can sing a tuning concert F pitch if I really, REALLY try. :D

Do your kids enjoy listening to you sing/play?:) I always find that the kids I'm around love it to death when I play for them...

[dapablo]

I think they're a bit blase about it now really but they do join in with the songs they know.

At the ages of 10 and 12 they are starting to have their own repetoir, it does give me a great deal of joy to hear them singing, feel a bit proud to think I've encouraged it.

I've got a few nice memories of performing for kids especially ones in the open air, a bit of "Wild Thing" always went down well. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Something Taz likes to ask people...


If you had to be always tired, or always hungry, which would it be?

[dapablo]

Where is she anyway, give her a "gentle" prod in the ribs from me, and say Hi. :)

To exist in a state of perpetual need to sleep I would think might make it very difficult to move ones body, the desire to collapse must be overwhelming.

To exist in a state of perpetual need to eat would I imagine leave one distressed but still able to exist in the world.

Two quick thoughts. I would therefore believe a state of Hunger would be my choice.

[Peace-Phoenix]

People do have that problem in real life, and it often leads to morbid obesity. Such is the extent of the problem that, if left to their own devices, many of them can't get out of bed. However, people with ME have the same problem anyway, so it may ammount to the same thing.

Taz is busy with work and such things. She's on MSN though. Have you got an MSN addy?

[dapablo]

I do, mannixpd @ btinternet.com

[Peace-Phoenix]

Cool, have added you. If you want you can make a post here, and I'll add you to the MSN list:


http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190308 (http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190308)

[Peace-Phoenix]

If you met God, what would you say to him?

[dapablo]

I have created this individual in imaginitive terms and have had words, shall we say.

Can't say I've been overly impressed with his handling of affairs and its about time someone had a little word in his shell-like, a bit along the lines of "Wake up and sort your shit out", and I wouldn't mind being that person. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

What would you do if you were god?

[dapablo]

Made sure that everyone had proof of my existence, then say its all yours get on with it and then made sure everyone saw me kill myself.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Go you want to be a grandapablo one day?

[dapablo]

Am in a fashion already, 3 little lads by my ladies son from a previous marriage. She is Nanny, my girls are Aunties and I'm also attached as a family thing.

I do look forward to seeing the offspring of my offspring, and also to see them fullfilled as human beings. Christopher 19 should be the first but we've lived miles apart for years so I imagine the contact there would still be intermittent but fun nonetheless.

Both my little ladies are feminine in their outlooks at the moment and do enjoy the concept of having boyfriends, fingers crossed they manage to keep control of their heads. What will be will be though I wouldn't lay any trips on them.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Following on from your post on the Borat thread...


Ever get caned at school?

Ever get cained at school?

Ever get caned for getting cained at school?

[dapablo]

What me get into trouble, never. Had one detention during my time at school, and that was a class one, quite upset about it at the time if I remember.

First cannabis would of been at 18, just an occaisional spliff with a college mate. Didn't really go there till I was 27.

[Peace-Phoenix]

What's the most selfless thing you've ever done?

Do you believe truly 100% selfless acts are possible?

[dapablo]

I actualy believe that everything we do is selfish. Even the act of selflessness in fact bolsters ones own belief in ones duty of kindness, reinforces ones own self approval and thereby becomes selfish. Noble deads are still noble but I don't believe they are selfless.

I like my nobility so do find myself always willing to assist once asked, and will try my best to be useful at the task in question. Nothing particularly noteworthy springs to mind, other than appearing on a stage in pantomime so that the local children can join in a show, in particular Shannon and Fay. This is a little strange, believe me.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Aye, I'd agree with you in your ideas onf selflessness. I think it's something that in theory should be impossible, though if you were to try to narrow it down to a loose working definition in practice, you could describe some acts as selfless.


And to flip the coin, what's the most selfish thing you've ever done?

[dapablo]

Now that is tricky, I do pride myself on unselfish behaviour.

The most selfish thing I have come across in my experience is the act of Love, it is so overwhelmingly self centred, and almost impossible for it not to be so.

A small selfishness would be the smoke to myself.

[lithium]

I have created this individual in imaginitive terms and have had words, shall we say.

Can't say I've been overly impressed with his handling of affairs and its about time someone had a little word in his shell-like, a bit along the lines of "Wake up and sort your shit out", and I wouldn't mind being that person. :)Do you believe in god?

[dapablo]

God as an interventionist deity certainly not, the concept seems to verge on the ridiculous as far as my mind can see. To place the possible creation in the form of personality I can think only of as human arrogance.

I'm a bit loath to abandon the concept completely though, I mean we all still have to deal with "Why ?". To circumvent this my words to my children are "god is more than anything and everything you can imagine". The concept in my mind of good and bad still exist, I'm justifying it all on the hoof really hoping my offspring reach a similar rational, probably to justify myself, but also as a duty of care to others also.

[lithium]

I'm a bit loath to abandon the concept completely though, I mean we all still have to deal with "Why ?". To circumvent this my words to my children are "god is more than anything and everything you can imagine". The concept in my mind of good and bad still exist, I'm justifying it all on the hoof really hoping my offspring reach a similar rational, probably to justify myself, but also as a duty of care to others also.What do you think your children believe about god?

You said you had a religious upbringing, were your parents devout, or more just cultural Christians?

[dapablo]

My little ladies, 11 & 12 are still dealing with conformality, they trust the world to tell them the truth and still enjoy the innocence of childhood. They will still say they believe in Father Christmas so getting real discussion in the reality of God is a little tricky.

There have been statements about doubt of Gods existence from the elder but they are not ready to dismiss the notion just yet. I will say that I have had an above average involvement in their religious education so it is a conversational topic in our household, a good thing I believe.

Father is an Irish Catholic, Mother is English Methodist, we were educated within the Catholic school system through Infants and Junior. Church was a regular occurence until I refused conformation it then tailed off. I would say that both were believers but not devout they even played with Jehovas Witnessess for a while. A search for the correct manner in which to behave is the legacy they left me.

[lithium]

How did your parents react to your rejection of their faith?

Do you have much contact with your parents and siblings?

[dapablo]

Dad dropped the faith many years back now and dosen't, even with the onset of old age, show any interest of picking it up again. Mother on the other hand has picked the reins up again over the last couple of years, and I get the feeling that has happened because of what I was involved with. Neither of them ever gave me any trips about whatever my philosophical beliefs were. Saw the old man a couple of months ago for the firat time in 3 years, ha can't travel and I don't like going to London. Mother appears a couple of times during the year for a brief visit, she'll ring up maybe once every 2 months, suppose you'd say not close.

I have four sibling all younger than me, boy, girl, girl, boy. I get on reasonably well with my brothers, football being an easy subject of conversartion. Girls, can't say I do, one pissed me off and the other is just a bit essex really.

[flowerchild17]

Did you get along with your siblings when you were all younger?

And did you try the recipe I sent you?:)

[MisterEm]

Catholic/Methodist rearing and morals, though not one who holds any faiths.

Hello to you.

Ever hear the saying, "My karma ran over my dogma?" I was raised under a variety of Christian faiths, but I don't hold to any of them, and I don't go to church anymore. I still believe in God, but now consider referencing God as "The Source", and I question whether or not God has a gender at all.

Anyway, I think Karma holds equal, if not more, practical spiritual value at times compared to church values. A person could be nice to others out of worry for bad karma just as much as out of religious conditioning. The end result is basically the same. That's not to say that I haven't learned some good morality from going to church, but my perspective on morality is different now in relation to karma. One could choose whether or not to be religious and/or go to church, but karma simply happens. It's like the weather -- we don't choose rain or sunshine on any given day; we just deal with it when it comes.

[dapablo]

Did you get along with your siblings when you were all younger?

And did you try the recipe I sent you?:)
I always beleived I got on well with my borthers and sisters, they ahave shared a slightly different opinion with my children though, nothing spectatcular but the odd little jibe about events they remember and I don't.

Closest to the elder boy and girl, Sean and Anette, the other two were babes really during my growing.

We had a wonderfully messy time weekend before last, a new taste experience for the little ladies left them slightly puzzled.

[dapablo]

Hello to you.
And likewise to you sir.

I believe I'm quite a fatalist myself really with an awareness that your behaviour has direct consequences at least, and also your own emotional being informs others how to behave with you.

I have and do use church as an institute of moral instruction for my offspring though. I find it a shame when children are not taught strong moral fundamentals but are raised with airy faeiry philosophies, if any at all.

[flowerchild17]

Hahaha, hopefully it didn't taste too bad;)

When your kids are a little older, do you plan on giving them the choice of whether they want to go to church or not, or will you continue to take them?

[dapablo]

When your kids are a little older, do you plan on giving them the choice of whether they want to go to church or not, or will you continue to take them?
They've always had the choice to attend or not.

I started with the realisation that church services are a complete bore to children, if not most adults, so that has never been part of the regime, they only attend those on special occaisions.

Most children in england receive their religious education from school which is subsequently dropped the same time as father christmas is realised as a fairy tale. This can leave a moral vacume.

Children also seem to accept education better from teachers than from parents, so because I have an interest in their moral wellbeing I stood as a sunday school teacher myself, thereby embibing me with educational authority, what I have to say on the matter carried more weight.

They'll both probably stop attending the majority of the time next year when they are both in the senior school. At least they have an inkling about kindness, care and consideration, hope the people they meet appreciate it. :)

[lithium]

Most children in england receive their religious education from school which is subsequently dropped the same time as father christmas is realised as a fairy tale. This can leave a moral vacume.
...
At least they have an inkling about kindness, care and consideration, hope the people they meet appreciate it. :)
Do you not think these things can exist in the absence of religious moral indoctrination?

[dapablo]

Do you not think these things can exist in the absence of religious moral indoctrination?
To be honest, no.

As mentioned children respect their teachers authority, the words given are subsequently respected, even if only for a year or two, but the foundation is laid.

Children who don't receive this have no moral foundations. The most they can hope for is a bit of "be nice to each other" from mum and dad, which will carry no authority whatsover and thus leaves the children able to create their own opinions on morals.

Care, kindness and consideration do not exist, they have to be created, our current celebration being involved in the same.

I've looked but can find no authority other than religion for morals, rather it weren't the case but beggars cant be choosers.

[lithium]

I've looked but can find no authority other than religion for morals, rather it weren't the case but beggars cant be choosers.What about cultures which have no organised monotheism? Religious morality of the type you describe is a very new phenomenon which has developed since the development of agricultural societies a few thousand years ago. There are still cultures which do not have these kinds of centralised religious guilds which purport to hold a monopoly on morality.

Are these cultures without care, kindness and consideration? Did these things not exist until organised monotheism took hold?

I would say it's quite the opposite: these things are naturally occurring phenomena which arise as a consequence of human society and the need for co-operation that entails. They don't arise as a consequence of superstitious beliefs, but those beliefs tack on to our innate propensity to exist in a moral framework, so that it has become hard to disentangle the two. But if you take away religion, the social frameworks (and evolutionary factors) through which morality arises would still exist.

I would say there is very good evidence that morality is a naturally arising human phenomenon :)

[dapablo]

What about cultures which have no organised monotheism? Religious morality of the type you describe is a very new phenomenon which has developed since the development of agricultural societies a few thousand years ago. There are still cultures which do not have these kinds of centralised religious guilds which purport to hold a monopoly on morality. Ah, but they don't exist in my neighbourhood, my points of consideration are, as you would say, subjective.

Are these cultures without care, kindness and consideration? Did these things not exist until organised monotheism took hold? Not well read by any means, but I think the older religions may well of had them as part of thier doctrine.
I would say it's quite the opposite: these things are naturally occurring phenomena which arise as a consequence of human society and the need for co-operation that entails. They don't arise as a consequence of superstitious beliefs, but those beliefs tack on to our innate propensity to exist in a moral framework, so that it has become hard to disentangle the two. But if you take away religion, the social frameworks (and evolutionary factors) through which morality arises would still exist.

I would say there is very good evidence that morality is a naturally arising human phenomenon :)"Lord of the Flies", grandmother and eggs I imagine but the proposal in this tale seem prevelant to me. I observe around me the world of self, religious morality has been replaced by no morality.

The issue I believe should revolve around which morals are relevant rather than ditch them all because some don't fit anymore, not your proposal I know but one that seems to be accepted by others. Small groupings of humans seem able to deal with the issues satisfactorily, large groupings do not.

Thanks for your thoughts dude.

[Peace-Phoenix]

If man made religion to instil moral values into communities, is it not conceivable that these created morals could be incorporated into society through other means? Are atheists amoral?

[dapablo]

Apologies for the delay, been busy wiping off the stagepaint. :)

I'd struggle with the precept of "man-made", nature made man...but anyway, if these values could be displayed in another way I'd give them due consideration but unfortunately I am still waiting for the opportunity to do so.

Amorality is a natural consequence of atheism, yes I declare my belief in the case, am I in error ? :)

[lithium]

Amorality is a natural consequence of atheismI assume that could be taken to mean that you think a majority of those who don't believe in gods don't care about issues of right and wrong, which seems like an incredible assertion to me. On what do you base it?

[dapablo]

Perhaps I don't mean complete amorality but a lesser/smaller morality !

[Peace-Phoenix]

I have morals, only with no concept of God, or punishment or reward, I must be the enforcer of my own moral values. That instils a certain sense of responsibility in an atheist that one should not overlook I think. Nor, given the highly interpretive nature of religious texts, should one assume that because one is religious, one has higher or better morals. Take evangelical Christians, Zionists, or fundamentalist Muslims for example....

[lithium]

Perhaps I don't mean complete amorality but a lesser/smaller morality !On what do you base that?

How would you account for those people with religious moral views on (for instance) homosexuality and the role of women which are actually quite hateful? How would you account for those secular social and charitable institutions (the welfare state, Oxfam, Amnesty etc) which have strong ideas about right and wrong and yet which have no basis in religion?

[dapablo]

I have morals, only with no concept of God, or punishment or reward, I must be the enforcer of my own moral values. That instils a certain sense of responsibility in an atheist that one should not overlook I think. Nor, given the highly interpretive nature of religious texts, should one assume that because one is religious, one has higher or better morals. Take evangelical Christians, Zionists, or fundamentalist Muslims for example....
Your a good boy then, would you really want me to find an example of someone who is not ?

I've not argued that religious texts or that fundamentalism are good, but rather the development of awareness of other is.

[dapablo]

On what do you base that? watching the news
How would you account for those people with religious moral views on (for instance) homosexuality and the role of women which are actually quite hateful?They are bigots, find em everywhere.
How would you account for those secular social and charitable institutions (the welfare state, Oxfam, Amnesty etc) which have strong ideas about right and wrong and yet which have no basis in religion?They do good but are too narrow in the viewpoint to influence the wider society.

Look there are lots of examples of good and bad in every institution, I cant justify everything on the planet.

I restate, apart from the religious institutes there is no moral directive. I am duty bound to raise my children with a premise of care and consideration of others. Oxfam, Amnesty and the ilk are in no position and have no desire to educate the children in moral behaviour.

You believe in the inherent good of man, I don't, I believe in his inherent selfishness.

[lithium]

watching the news Do news reports tell you what the religious beliefs of the ne'er-do-wells they report on are? How are those views relevant?


I restate, apart from the religious institutes there is no moral directive. I am duty bound to raise my children with a premise of care and consideration of others. Oxfam, Amnesty and the ilk are in no position and have no desire to educate the children in moral behaviour.

You believe in the inherent good of man, I don't, I believe in his inherent selfishness.
Don't you think atheists might also be able to raise their children with ideas of care and consideration to others? Our moral framework exists wherever socialisation occurs - within a secular state school system, or where moral ideas are passed from parents to children. I suppose I'm asking why you think it is only superstition which can instil moral values when I think we have established those moral values are quite capable of existing elsewhere?

I don't believe in the inherent good of mankind, I believe mankind is naturally capable of both good and bad, religions are quite capable of doing both as are those who have no faith...

[Peace-Phoenix]

watching the news
They are bigots, find em everywhere.
They do good but are too narrow in the viewpoint to influence the wider society.

Look there are lots of examples of good and bad in every institution, I cant justify everything on the planet.

I restate, apart from the religious institutes there is no moral directive. I am duty bound to raise my children with a premise of care and consideration of others. Oxfam, Amnesty and the ilk are in no position and have no desire to educate the children in moral behaviour.

You believe in the inherent good of man, I don't, I believe in his inherent selfishness.
No one would doubt that you have raised your children with the utmost respect for morality. However, that does not, I would argue, exclude atheists from doing the same. You are right that Oxfam, Amnesty etc are narrower in their vision, but in the case of Amnesty in particular, it serves as a rational-legal guaranteur of morality outside the religious framework. Concepts of human rights are ingrained into international society through the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Amnesty exists as its watchdog. This is something it can fulfil much more effectively outside the remit of religious, political or economic interests....

[dapablo]

All getting a bit technical now ain't it, what if, you said, x+y=z.............

Why are you here, what is the purpose of your existence, what is the purpose of the universe, what happens when I die ? All big thoughts from childhood, remember ?
Have you both discovered the answers, or learned not to care ? Though why I'm asking you anything on my thread I don't know.

Contemplation of God enables the expansion of the mind, it enables exploration of a fourth dimension, to deny the possibility, even though it may be superstitious, is a regressive step, imho. I like to encourage my children to explore it and consider those that don't as lacking. :)

[autumn_jewels]

hm i havent read all the way through this and so am probably not in the best position to respond and will read through it properly later.

however, raised in the church as a believer i was brought up with good moral standing. during highschool i began questioning His existance and came to the conclusion that He wasnt there. I continued attending church regularly in the hope that I would 'find' what everyone else seemed to have but it wasnt to be. Now, as an atheist I still consider myself to be of good moral standing. Without God and religion there are basic truths in life which go beyond religion imo.

[lithium]

Contemplation of God enables the expansion of the mind, it enables exploration of a fourth dimension, to deny the possibility, even though it may be superstitious, is a regressive step, imho. I like to encourage my children to explore it and consider those that don't as lacking. :)To be fair, that's not quite what you were saying. Of course we should encourage our children to explore these ideas for themselves. What I found interesting was your apparent belief that there is no such thing as secular morality, that atheists were somehow less moral than religionists, and by extension that they would be incapable of raising children with moral values.

I would say that a thoughtful secularist/atheist is quite capable of having (in fact I would argue more likely to have) reasoned and responsible ideas on issues of morality as someone who subscribes to a particular dogma. Christians tend to have strong moral views on homosexuality, but that doesn't make those views right. Having a strong sense of morality is not a virtue if the content of those moral ideas are bigoted and intolerant. I feel very sorry for the child brought up with strong Christian values who discovers his sexuality is different from how it 'should' be. It's far more important to have reasoned, considered, nuanced and responsible ideas about such matters than simply to have strong ideas such as those found in religious dogma. It's more important that the parent is thoughtful and responsible, than that they provide religion as a surrogate moral teacher...

[autumn_jewels]

In christianity however lithium, not everyone carries the same beliefs. People take what they want from the bible and use it in a way which works for them. There are the purist christians who are anti homosexuality and follow the bible as it is written, and then there are the christians who say, yeah i believe in God, but this writing is outdated, and I will follow the concepts which work for me, but I dont think it is all accurate for modern day living. My Dad is a pretty open minded guy, he believes in God, he doesnt go to church and im sure if you asked him to make a quote from the bible he couldnt. He doesnt live his life around his religion, but he still has a belief in God.

At the end of the day, we all choose routes which work for us and as long as we keep an open mind and empathise with those around us, treating people as we wish to be treated, show respect, then I dont think it matters whether that originates in a religious or atheist background.

[lithium]

At the end of the day, we all choose routes which work for us and as long as we keep an open mind and empathise with those around us, treating people as we wish to be treated, show respect, then I dont think it matters whether that originates in a religious or atheist background.I entirely agree, autumn_jewels. In fact I would say using religion as a comparative rather than an absolute source of ideas - by picking the bits that best fit our inherent sense of morality - is itself a form of secularism. It would be a fool who ignored any source of ideas, whether those ideas come from religious tradition, or from atheistic secular humanist tradition. The danger lies in closing down ideas by excluding any particular tradition or uncritically focusing on one limited set of ideas - that's a form of indoctrination.

[dapablo]

- that's a form of indoctrination.
become a parent dude, everything you do or say is indoctrination..

[dapablo]

To be fair, that's not quite what you were saying. Of course we should encourage our children to explore these ideas for themselves. What I found interesting was your apparent belief that there is no such thing as secular morality, that atheists were somehow less moral than religionists, and by extension that they would be incapable of raising children with moral values.

I would say that a thoughtful secularist/atheist is quite capable of having (in fact I would argue more likely to have) reasoned and responsible ideas on issues of morality as someone who subscribes to a particular dogma. Christians tend to have strong moral views on homosexuality, but that doesn't make those views right. Having a strong sense of morality is not a virtue if the content of those moral ideas are bigoted and intolerant. I feel very sorry for the child brought up with strong Christian values who discovers his sexuality is different from how it 'should' be. It's far more important to have reasoned, considered, nuanced and responsible ideas about such matters than simply to have strong ideas such as those found in religious dogma. It's more important that the parent is thoughtful and responsible, than that they provide religion as a surrogate moral teacher...
This is becoming all a little zealous Lithium wouldn't you say. You ask me a question, I try and answer. You decide my response is not to your taste and allmost get to the point of harranguing me for my ideas. Not good.

This thread was posted so you could get to know me better if you wanted to, not for you to come and give me the third degree over some of the cuff remarks about atheists. :)

Cheers.

[lithium]

This is becoming all a little zealous Lithium wouldn't you say. You ask me a question, I try and answer. You decide my response is not to your taste and allmost get to the point of harranguing me for my ideas. Not good.

This thread was posted so you could get to know me better if you wanted to, not for you to come and give me the third degree over some of the cuff remarks about atheists. :)

Cheers.Zealous? Haranguing? :eek: Well I don't see that at all, but sorry if that's what you think.

I think the Karma Kafe is a place to get to know people and gives an opportunity for debate. What I was doing was debating your views in order to get to the bottom of how and why you think the way you do. This also gives you an opportunity to articulate and think through your opinions, which I always find is the best way of refining my views. It's not at all about being "not to my taste", debate is about rationally thinking through and arguing the issues raised.

Again, apologies, I thought I was engaging in intelligent and thoughtful debate. I honestly can't see the "zealous" or "haranguing" thing at all, and to be honest that accusation has floored me a little...

[dapablo]

How can I debate ideas with you when posts from you link my thoughts with intolerance and bigotry. It's all a bit grandmother and eggs. I know people abuse each other, surely you know I know this, it can be used as an anti argument for nearly everything not just religion?

The subject does hold an interest for me but to have to argue against bad examples is just pointlesss. Try thinking about the majority and their emotional behaviour rather than extremists, it probably makes for a boring conversation though. :)

I started from the premise that I believe religious education is good for children. I have no interest in my ideas being correct really, I try my best but know ultimately I am bound to fail in that regard.
I don't really give a toss about christianity either or any other religion for that matter, but I do care about consideration.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Moving on in an egg related way...


What's your favourite method of preparing eggs?

[dapablo]

Moving on in an egg related way...


What's your favourite method of preparing eggs?
Chuckles.........

The only time I eat an egg as an egg is with sunday morning breakfast, and then it is usually prepared by poaching in a poaching pan. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Is breakfast your most important meal of the day?

[dapablo]

Is breakfast your most important meal of the day?
They're all important. I couldn't get through to lunch without breakfast so maybe it is. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

If you could go back and relive one day in your life, which would it be and why? What, if anything, would you do differently?

[lithium]

How can I debate ideas with you when posts from you link my thoughts with intolerance and bigotry. I didn't link your thoughts with intolerance and bigotry, and I'm fairly sure from reading your posts that you are very far from being either.

Any ideology / doctrine / dogma tends to contain some elements of these though, and this subject holds a great fascination for me. I was very interested in the issues raised and was trying to discuss them - hopefully thoughtfully and intelligently - to ascertain what your thinking on the subject was. You've always seemed like an interesting person and I was genuinely interested in knowing what you thought and how you dealt with these ideas.

How you got from that to zealous and haranguing I'm still unclear, hopefully it should be obvious that that couldn't be further from my intentions. Since you apparently don't appreciate the style or subject of debate I'll know to avoid it. Sorry for any offence caused.

What's your favourite colour?

[dapablo]

If you could go back and relive one day in your life, which would it be and why? What, if anything, would you do differently?
One evening at a Governors meeting I heard my childrens teacher might be leaving the school. As she was also my companion sunday school teacher I rang to enquire if things were okay. During this conversation wherein we called each other friend, I said I needed a word with her anyway regarding another difficult matter, she said "just spit it out, always the best way", she lied.

I'd not pick up that phone if I had the chance again.

[dapablo]

I didn't link your thoughts with intolerance and bigotry, and I'm fairly sure from reading your posts that you are very far from being either.Maybe not intentionaly but thats the way it felt.

Any ideology / doctrine / dogma tends to contain some elements of these though, and this subject holds a great fascination for me. I was very interested in the issues raised and was trying to discuss them - hopefully thoughtfully and intelligently - to ascertain what your thinking on the subject was. You've always seemed like an interesting person and I was genuinely interested in knowing what you thought and how you dealt with these ideas.A fascination for me also but you are a well educated gent whereas I'm not, your strong statements can be intimidating.
How you got from that to zealous and haranguing I'm still unclear, hopefully it should be obvious that that couldn't be further from my intentions. Since you apparently don't appreciate the style or subject of debate I'll know to avoid it. Sorry for any offence caused.

What's your favourite colour?Spoilt it now, sarcasm was not necessary, put out your hand and as I go to reach for it, pull it away. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

I don't think he was being sarcastic. Always so much harder to tell when you're reading words off a screen though, the source of far too many misunderstandings....

[Peace-Phoenix]

One evening at a Governors meeting I heard my childrens teacher might be leaving the school. As she was also my companion sunday school teacher I rang to enquire if things were okay. During this conversation wherein we called each other friend, I said I needed a word with her anyway regarding another difficult matter, she said "just spit it out, always the best way", she lied.

I'd not pick up that phone if I had the chance again.
If you don't mind my asking, what did you end up spitting out?

[dapablo]

If you don't mind my asking, what did you end up spitting out?
Something I shouldn't of, she hasn't spoke to me for 3 years because of it. :)

[dapablo]

I don't think he was being sarcastic. Always so much harder to tell when you're reading words off a screen though, the source of far too many misunderstandings.... Well if one wanted to be sarcastic what would be the question one would use then ? :)
.

[lithium]

Sheesh. Good natured humour yes, sarcasm no. Perhaps I best just stop posting in your thread:)

[dapablo]

It is always very difficult to go for good natured humour once one has upset someone, without the body language it is practicaly impossible to read it as such, you would have to be long standing friends with a history of verbal banter for that to succeed.
I've calmed down a touch. :)

[phoenix_indigo]

what do you see as your greatest achievement in life? (i'm going to disqualify the answer "my kids" cos that's a typical parental answer ... so other than your kids, what's your greatest achievement in life?)

is there one thing in particular that you have never done that you have always wanted to do?

[dapablo]

I come from a poor working class family and I believe because of that environment I never placed any goals on myself. Simple matters were the important ones.

I do recall conversations with college friend wherein they would place ideas of becoming managers of businesses etc. and i would dumbfound them by stating I was happy to recieve whatever was placed in my lap.

With a stronger drive perhaps I would of observed more, or earned more, but neither of those things exist as a regret in any way shape or form.

The greatest achievement in life imho is contentment, which I did hold for many years.

My mind requires no more from my existence than other than what is.
My heart, treacherous thing, is another matter. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Is it better to have loved and lost?

[dapablo]

Is it better to have loved and lost? rather than to of not loved at all ?

I would call it unnecessary I suppose, sure the spirit is broadened, the sense of self is enlarged, understandings are obtained but the cost is too much for my humble requirements.

Contentment is a noble enough goal for me.

[Peace-Phoenix]

Is there anything apart from family you would die for? Is there anything you would kill for?

[dapablo]

I would have the desire to prove my humanity by declaring I could find a situation in which I would forfeit my life for another or others, but nothing specific I could declare.

Kill for a cuppa. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

How was your trip?

[ronald Macdonald]

I am a believer in the ability of religion to assist youngsters in perceiving a greater reality beyond their own ego though, so have encouraged mine to be involved with the local christian community. Are you sure that christianity is asking them to see beyond their own ego, or is it asking them to sacrifice their ego and to accept their truth beyond reason,to accept a lie without question? Isn't the hardest thing to accept about christianity the fact that it asks you to sacrifice your self control, and your ambition in favour of the churches vision and moral ambition

[dapablo]

How was your trip?What my Jaunt to Aylesbury on Wednesday, business and as its an internal meeting a waste of my time and energies really, but they do like to think its team building. You couldn't build me into a team in a month of sundays, but will they listen, no ?

Down to Dorchester thursday afternoon, day at the office then home Friday eve. Used to charging about really, have my 5GB player connected, sounds on, do a journey, though my left leg is starting to complain nowadays. :)

[dapablo]

Are you sure that christianity is asking them to see beyond their own ego, or is it asking them to sacrifice their ego and to accept their truth beyond reason,to accept a lie without question? Isn't the hardest thing to accept about christianity the fact that it asks you to sacrifice your self control, and your ambition in favour of the churches vision and moral ambitionIt would make no difference to me which religion was teaching its faith to my children. It just happens to be Christianity in my local.

I am perfectly aware of the requirements of faith, but at the same time also aware that my children will drop their early pretenses of faith. I require my offspring have the ability to discuss some philosophy with me rather than just dismiss it, simple as that really. I was also offered the opportunity to become the teacher of God so jumped at the chance to have that authority as well.

I no longer teach and my youngest is spending her last few sunday visits before she leaves, then it will all be past tense. We are not Christians but will of an occaision be happy to sing at a service, and we do sing. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

Hehehe, I read that as "it just happens Christianity is my local". It reminded me of the Blake poem:

"But, if at the Church they would give us some ale,
And a pleasant fire our souls to regale,
We'd sing and we'd pray all the livelong day,
Nor ever once wish from the Church to stray."

Oh if churches were ale houses....

[dapablo]

Oh if churches were ale houses....
I think you might find a lot of them are. :)

[Peace-Phoenix]

If you could create your own festival, who in the history of music would you book to play? Who would you book out of the bands going today?

[dapablo]

2 days of the "MAD MONKS FESTIVAL"

Sunday
GRATEFUL DEAD
Bob Dylan
Genesis
Beatles
Neil Young
Glenn Miller
Woody Guthrie


Saturday
Faithless
Eat Static
Dreadzone
Athlete
The Zutons
Kula Shaker
KT Tunstall


entry - the first's free, the second you gotta pay. :)

[lithium]

2 days of the "MAD MONKS FESTIVAL"

Sunday
GRATEFUL DEAD
Bob Dylan
Genesis
Beatles
Neil Young
Glenn Miller
Woody Guthrie


Saturday
Faithless
Eat Static
Dreadzone
Athlete
The Zutons
Kula Shaker
KT Tunstall


entry - the first's free, the second you gotta pay. :)Can I apply to steward? :confused:

[dapablo]

If you read the poster it tells you you don't actualy need to, not this time anyways. :)

[lithium]

:confused:I'd still rather steward if that's all the same:confused:

[dapablo]

why confused anyways ?

and am I asking myself questions again ?

[dapablo]

Want to place my rational for the events that have transpired over the last week, before memory colours and clouds too much.

Today I appear to have upset someone enough that they want to stop me from communicating with them and their friends. This is quite a shock to system, don't recall ever being told to piss off before. I might not of been spoken to but I'd never offend enough to require that request.

Perhaps a description of the events and players might elucidate.
4 years ago nearly I stumbled across this site after searching for articles regarding the first Beautiful days. My first thought was cool, this could be an interesting and rewarding place, and so it has turned out to be.

"What the hell, I don't believe it, You cant say that", oops oh dear, sive nines go wading in, "Oi you, are you one of Thatchers Children or what". I'd stumbled across a little drama being played between DrA and Ma Crap, I immediatly went to the defence of Ma and they had a few days fun playing with the fool that was myself.

He didn't like my attitude, I didn't like his attitude, we've generally suffered the presence of each other since with the occaisional moment of comradary, suffered less the longer.

Couple of things in this time have been declared, the first being what I call foul language i.e. don't use it at me, I get offended, and secondly I have and Live nad work with children please don't associate me with the negative aspects of these relationships, I'm paranoid about the whole trip, thanks.

Over time I've been warned about arguing my viewpoint in contradiction to someone elses, I might get angry occaisionaly but I wont be abusive. I've been labelled as a trouble maker. I do notice he is very protective about his lady, if anyone says anything against he will be there and be there big.

First breakdown in communication occured after I had met everyone, we all had faces. Sent A a jokey PM about nothing and got an abusive one back. This I forwarded with request for action to P. and never heard anything from either. Oh dear not worthy of a reponse.

October last I observed someone contradict Earth W. I sent the gent a PM saying "Best leave it alone mate it won't be good for your health". I then receive a Pm from A stating "Why are sending X a PM, you must be up to no good". I post this PM on the forum to complain about this as a form of behaviour by the administrators. Naturaly I'm banned and the post is removed.

I return to the better place and revive my existence, howdy folks.

[dapablo]

I should of known my input wasn't really appreciated by the admin, but there was some fair people there with some interesting things to say so I found myself slowly joining in again. A week ago I responded to a post by EW, ooops as metioned previously not a particularly good idea, my words were then taken out of context and turned into a joke against me, nothing sinister apart from the fact it now culludes to unsuitable behaviour with my daughter. Now it gets tricky.

Jokes or even abuse between friends is a healthy and natural way to behave. Jokes or abuse between people who are not friends is not healthy and can be antagonistic. I informed of my discomfort with this post and requested it's removal, this was met with a denial of request and a suggestion I take it to the "Suport Forum".

As mentioned the man knows about my concerns about some behaviour references, even if he chooses to deny such knowledge, link that to denial of a simple request and you can see my concern. I should of just walked and left them to it, but I thought the manner displayed needed at least an attempt correction.

If someone says you are offending them, especially someone you may of known for years, my natural response would be to apologise, modify my behaviour and ask if I could recompense them. I also think this is a form of behaviour that all organisations should employ to all customers.

I declared my problem to the admin, but they didn't want to listen to my concern and only showed an interest in following the line of "its only a joke", used as an excuse by the offender. I understand the logic of their argument BUT that wasn't what I was complaining about, I was complaining about there lack of due diligence and care for their customer base. I tried to engage in conversation but twice my threads were closed for discussion.

Is there anything more likely in this world to antagonise than to be told to shut up or else. I foolishly made 2 jokes one about a youth with a brown nose and one about A grooming. Banned until I can become more adult.

1 week passes, I'm allowed to return, see a sign which says A is going on holiday. I post a new thread. "What a wonderful idea......., See the simple things are always the best, Aren't Eureka moments wonderful". Result banned for eternity.

Obviously such vile, foul and trolling behaviour needs the maximum punishment.
No abuse, no threats, no swearing, no trolling, banned because why exactly.