Topic: Anti-Christians.

[Warrior]

By the large number of threads started to attack Christians and the huge volume of posts against Christians, I am compelled to ask, "Why? Why do so many deem it neccessary to attack the morals and beliefs of Christians?" Most will come to the defense of religions, and nonreligions that are not Christian based, but rarely does one come to the defense of Christians. There are many religions and beliefs that are much older than Christianity, but they are not attacked. A lot of what I read against Christianity is that it is old, or outdated. Seems to me that by that reasoning, no belief system beyond last year is worthy of believing. What do Christian bashers gain by thier assaults on Christians?

[tom]

I believe Jesus answered this question.

This is from John 15:18-26 I believe.


f the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.


That should about sum it up.

[Epiphany]

People often argue against what they don't fully understand. Christianity doesn't fit most people because they find it too difficult. Society has a hard time abstaining from things. But yeah, that verse pretty much sums it up.

[meishka]

remember that christians once tried to erase other religons. this is way back mind u. but it has always been looked at that christianity is a violent religon. and then compare it to buddism and u look like the warlords of the world. u asked u got an answer from a non believer. don't bite my head off.

[LuciferSam]

I guess my cynicism of Christianity comes from growing up as an atheist in the conservative Christian Midwest (and America's puritanism in general), growing up knowing a good number of people that are real hardcore Bible-beaters and all. It doesn't leave a good impression of devout Christians on you, especially the ones that howl fire-and-brimstone for the unrepentent. And the religious right that try to push their beliefs on the rest of us don't help either.

I've become more tolerant as I grew up, after I made a minor shift to agnosticism/humanism. I'm not really anti-Christian, though fundamentalists tend to be my pet peeve so you might say I'm anti-fundie. When holier-than-thou people condescend to non-believers and talk as if the rest of us live in some dark pit of ignorance and damnation, I feel they deserve the same treatment.

[Real American]

Well, I say this to you:

Do you hold all black people responsable when one commits a crime?
Is every dog a vicious beast when one attacks a child?
Is every soldier inhumane when one mistreats an enemy?
Are all white people snoby?

The answers....no.

When I see the idiot people holding signs that say "God Hates Gay's" I can't help but think how mislead they are by Satan. I am a Christian, and I am certainly not better than you. Why do I talk to people about my faith? Well, for one, I am comanded too. Another reason is because I want others to enjoy the relationship I have with God for themselves. You will make your decision for yourself. I can not force you to believe in anything. The only thing I can ask you is to ignore the bad apples that you see and do not allow them to cloud your judgment for true believers.

[maryfairy]

i don't like christianity, because every christian i have ever met tells me in order to be a good person i need to go to church and believe what they believe. and they get mad at me when i explain i can't just set my life aside for a book of stories.



i'm just telling you the truth, you asked for it so don't get all pissed off.

[daymuse]

Do you hold all black people responsable when one commits a crime?
Is every dog a vicious beast when one attacks a child?
Is every soldier inhumane when one mistreats an enemy?
Are all white people snoby?
Only if they say they're christians.

[POPthree13]

I fail to see all these threads of people attacking christians. Maybe I am not looking in the right place. What I see is a lot of good-hearted debate - diagreements over idelas, beleifs, interpretations and principals. Just becasue someone doesn't agree with your perspective doesn't mean that they are attacking you.


True I do see people get fed up occasionally and post insulting text, but I find it is generally directed at an individual who is playing an active role in aggrevating the situation. Not christians in general.

I have been called ignorant becasue I investigated what was handed to me.
I have been called damned because I do not beleive what I was sold.
I have been called blind because I read instead of assumed.

I do not call names... I refute points. Who is doing the attacking?

[FreakyJoeMan]

Yes, but it's a human thing to catogorize individuals into groups, it's easier to assign character traits to groups than to individuals. It's easier to asses goups than is it to asses on a case by case basis, ya see. Now, i don't hate christians, some of my best buds are christian. What I DO hate are closed minded ignoramouses. Jerry Falwell=idiot, The Ayyatola Komeni=idiot, Joseph Stalin=idiot, our pastor=idiot. Stupidity, hate, intollerance, they cross all racial, religious, and intellectual barriers. Heh, you could say it's what binds us as a species. Now, kinda put yerself in LuciferSam's shoes. If you were ridiculed and made fun of by, say, black kids, when you were a kid, wouldn't you have a less favorable view of black people than someone who wasn't assaulted?

[BlackBillBlake]

Theres a kind of intolerance on both sides - some, not all, christians are very narrow and condemn anyone who isn't a christian, or even a christian of their particular brand. Many people form their impressions of christianity from such people's ravings.

Many critcs are not well informed about the beliefs held by modern christians - they think people still believe as they did in the middle-ages. And to some extent , where 'fundamentalists' are concerned, this is true. But the 'official' doctrine of the catholic church, for example, has moved on a long way since then.
Also - and crucially - the church, and therefore christianity is seen as too much a part of the establishment - part of the framework of authority. The teachings of christianity seem to many to have been distorted beyond all recognition to render the thing a useful tool in the hands of the 'controllers'.
The other major factor that I think puts off a lot of folks, esp. the young, is a percieved 'anti-sex' factor.

[roly]

usually when christian places are being attacked its because the christian people are doing stomething right....i.e. rejecting the devil. Perhaps the reason that this forum is being attacked because v#before the attack we were pleasing God and worrying the devil.

roly.xxx

[seamonster66]

Quote from Warrior: sea: I have fought, and won my fights, against minorities, (hispanics and blacks). I have never to my knowledge had a physical confrontation with a gay person.
Perhaps you should study a bit about National Socialism before claiming that it does not mix with Christianity. You may be mistaking Communism for Socialism. It happens alot.

Here is a quote from poor persecuted warrior, a holocaust denier and racist nazi.

[Mui]

christinity is the big abstinance... it is illogical, and foolish (imo), and is actually very bad for a person to live their life around... therefore why I would consider myself one of these... "anti-christians"

christians on hipforums are a lot different than 90% of the christians i meet around my town though...

still still, no reason to be pro-christian

[roly]

christinity is the big abstinance... it is illogical, and foolish (imo), and is actually very bad for a person to live their life around... therefore why I would consider myself one of these... "anti-christians"

christians on hipforums are a lot different than 90% of the christians i meet around my town though...

still still, no reason to be pro-christian

how are we different?

roly.xxx

[Mui]

well not speaking for all of you :D, i haven tmet all of you... but some of the christians on hipforums are a lot more PEACE LOVING, liberal, and intelligent than the christians i meet round here.

[loverofthewoods]

the fact that one can offer proof that christianity is nothing more than stories and still be "ignorant"..."uneducated"..."evil" and everything else non-believers are called makes me a bit cynical towards christianity...also i grew up in utah in an area where at least 90% are mormons...and the massive indoctrination that goes on all around me has made me want nothing to do with others who shove spiritual ideas down my throat...i chose along time ago to not believe anything anyone tells me when it comes to spirituality, but instead find god on my own path.

[campbell34]

well not speaking for all of you :D, i haven tmet all of you... but some of the christians on hipforums are a lot more PEACE LOVING, liberal, and intelligent than the christians i meet round here.
-That's because usually it is the true Christians that like to talk about God and the Christians who "worship Jesus with their lips" are the ones that warm up the church seats and never say a word to anyone about their faith.

Jesus said. "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."-Matt. 15:8

"They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him."-Titus 1:16

Not everyone that says that they are a Christian is a Christian. Please do not be fooled.

[Real American]

the fact that one can offer proof that christianity is nothing more than stories and still be "ignorant"..."uneducated"..."evil" and everything else non-believers are called makes me a bit cynical towards christianity...also i grew up in utah in an area where at least 90% are mormons...and the massive indoctrination that goes on all around me has made me want nothing to do with others who shove spiritual ideas down my throat...i chose along time ago to not believe anything anyone tells me when it comes to spirituality, but instead find god on my own path. Visit one of the other threads concerning proving us wrong. In truth, The Bible proves us right. It is sad that every apple tree has bad apples. What is worse are that so many people want to judge a whole group bassed on the actions of just a few.

The fact that I can offer proof that The Bible is true should not make you cynical, but should make you realize the lies you have been told.
http://www.apologeticsinfo.org/papers/trustworthinessofthebible.html

[POPthree13]

Oh the lies... yeah them. I can see how people get fed up with this same message over and over again. The lies throughout history are easy to spot. They are not the messages that come from research, from science, from our hearts.


We have been told lies for nearly two thousand years now (the earth is flat, it is the center of the universe, we were sculpted out of mud, god created the earth 6000 years ago.. etc. etc.) and just now are we beginning to lift the veil from the dark age where you are TOLD what is true. Find out for yourself and you will see past the lies too.

[abbadabba]

By the large number of threads started to attack Christians and the huge volume of posts against Christians, I am compelled to ask, "Why? Why do so many deem it neccessary to attack the morals and beliefs of Christians?" Most will come to the defense of religions, and nonreligions that are not Christian based, but rarely does one come to the defense of Christians. There are many religions and beliefs that are much older than Christianity, but they are not attacked. A lot of what I read against Christianity is that it is old, or outdated. Seems to me that by that reasoning, no belief system beyond last year is worthy of believing. What do Christian bashers gain by thier assaults on Christians?
People like YOU are the reason so many agnostics and atheists are repulsed by Christianity in general. Is it fair that some of us condemn an entire religion based on the actions of a few morons like you? No, just like it isn't fair that you condemn entire races, religions, and sexual orientations based on whatever idiotic nazi reasons you use to back them up.

I clicked on this thread prepared to say something along the lines of "That isn't true...Christians aren't persecuted." Then I saw who started the thread. Warrior, you are the embodiment of everything that so many people find despicable about Christianity. You need to ask yourself "What would Jesus do?" instead of just displaying the bumper sticker next to the Confederate flag and swastika.

[loverofthewoods]

Visit one of the other threads concerning proving us wrong. In truth, The Bible proves us right. It is sad that every apple tree has bad apples. What is worse are that so many people want to judge a whole group bassed on the actions of just a few.

The fact that I can offer proof that The Bible is true should not make you cynical, but should make you realize the lies you have been told.
http://www.apologeticsinfo.org/papers/trustworthinessofthebible.html
i suppose i should put a warning on here...DONT READ IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN AND AFRAID TO QUESTION WHAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TOLD TO YOU

instead of type up my whole bit again ill quote it from another thread...
christianity is recycled paganism...they borrowed the stories, just changed the names and places.

here are some more deities that tell teh same "jesus" story:



Adad of Assyria
Adonis, Apollo, Heracles ("Hercules") and Zeus of Greece
Alcides of Thebes
Attis of Phrygia
Baal of Phoenicia
Bali of Afghanistan
Beddru of Japan
Buddha of India
Crite of Chaldea
Deva Tat of Siam
Hesus of the Druids
Horus, Osiris, and Serapis of Egypt, whose long-haired, bearded appearance was adopted for the Christ character
Indra of Tibet/India
Jao of Nepal
Krishna of India
Mikado of the Sintoos
Mithra of Persia
Odin of the Scandinavians
Prometheus of Caucasus/Greece
Quetzalcoatl of Mexico
Salivahana of Bermuda
Tammuz of Syria (who was, in a typical mythmaking move, later turned into the disciple Thomas)
Thor of the Gauls
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls
Wittoba of the Bilingonese
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zarathustra/Zoroaster of Persia
Zoar of the Bonzes

[loverofthewoods]

Horus of Egypt


Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."
He had 12 disciples.
He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
He walked on water.
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys").
Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.

123456789

[loverofthewoods]

Mythra of Persia


Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper"
is any of this sounding familiar yet?

[loverofthewoods]

Krishna of India



Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki ("Divine One")
His father was a carpenter.
His birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh.
He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
He was of royal descent.
He was baptized in the River Ganges.
He worked miracles and wonders.
He raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and the blind.
Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love.
"He lived poor and he loved the poor."
He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
Krishna is called the "Shepherd God" and "Lord of lords," and was considered "the Redeemer, Firstborn, Sin Bearer, Liberator, Universal Word."
He is the second person of the Trinity, and proclaimed himself the "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father."
He was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and the End," ("Alpha and Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.
His disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus," meaning "pure essence."
Krishna is to return to do battle with the "Prince of Evil," who will desolate the earth.

Must i continue? if you dont belive me i DARE you to do the research all these dieties were worshiped long before christ was said to have lived...im not saying there isnt some truth in the stories, but i think the bible very inaccurate...it contains more translation errors than any other book in history. go back to the source if your looking for the truth, ancient egypt is the farthest back i can trace these stories...other than possibly atlantis...but thats just a myth, right??? anyway there is much more i could type up that has nothing to do with older versions of the same stories that would discredit the bible but id rather not take the time... unless you really want me to

[themakerofmonkeys]

Personally, im not really a religious person at all because all religons are man made and they all change to fit what is going on in the world today. I just kinda take from each religon. I used to be catholic but its just not me. I dont find catholics tend to be closed minded and not always excepting of other religons, that probably contributes to people being anti-christians.

[loverofthewoods]

I do not know of these fake gods you mention. However, what I could assume is that whoever created that particular religion associated with those fake gods liked what Jesus stood for but disagreed with a few things so they copied Christianity and changed what made them happy. Just an assumption on my part, I'll look further into it. Meanwhile, why not show me a credable source of info that shows text concerning these fake gods dating further back than say 40 B.C.like i said, all the "fake gods" i mentioned were worshiped long before christ.

horus was worshiped in egypt over 5000 years ago. its history bro

[campbell34]

Popthree,

"We have been told lies for nearly two thousand years now (the earth is flat..."

-Can you please tell roughly when it was discovered that the earth was round?

[Epiphany]

like i said, all the "fake gods" i mentioned were worshiped long before christ.

horus was worshiped in egypt over 5000 years ago. its history bro

that is why God said in the very first commandment, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods except me".

[Warrior]

People like YOU are the reason so many agnostics and atheists are repulsed by Christianity in general. Is it fair that some of us condemn an entire religion based on the actions of a few morons like you? No, just like it isn't fair that you condemn entire races, religions, and sexual orientations based on whatever idiotic nazi reasons you use to back them up.

I clicked on this thread prepared to say something along the lines of "That isn't true...Christians aren't persecuted." Then I saw who started the thread. Warrior, you are the embodiment of everything that so many people find despicable about Christianity. You need to ask yourself "What would Jesus do?" instead of just displaying the bumper sticker next to the Confederate flag and swastika.
This thread was set up to ask, "why" the anger towards Christians, not "This is another good place to bash Christians". I would love to respond to your personal insults, but my hands are tied and so therefore I will not respond to anything that is not "on topic". This is only to remind everyone what the topic is. Thank you.

[abbadabba]

This thread was set up to ask, "why" the anger towards Christians, not "This is another good place to bash Christians". I would love to respond to your personal insults, but my hands are tied and so therefore I will not respond to anything that is not "on topic". This is only to remind everyone what the topic is. Thank you.
Fair enough. I gave an "on-topic" answer: The reason that some atheists and agnostics dislike Christians is because they live in communities surrounded by YOUR brand of Christianity, which any rational person (Christian or non-Christian) finds offensive. If my knowledge of Christianity was limited to the things you've posted on this forum, I'd probably be anti-Christian too.

[Warrior]

Fair enough. I gave an "on-topic" answer: The reason that some atheists and agnostics dislike Christians is because they live in communities surrounded by YOUR brand of Christianity, which any rational person (Christian or non-Christian) finds offensive. If my knowledge of Christianity was limited to the things you've posted on this forum, I'd probably be anti-Christian too.Although you are still off topic, I am going to respond to you at the risk of being banned.

My "brand" of Christianity is probably less than 1% of Christians. I am a Christian who fights fire with fire and one who is willing to fight to the death for my God and my Saviour. Why not? Jesus died for me. Am I too valuable to die for Him? I have the heart that my God gifted me with and it is much like the one He gifted to warriors such as 'Joan of Arc' and others who did not stand by and watch evil destroy the words of God. No, I am not a saint, but I am my God and Saviours sword on this forum. I am not a "we love you and forgive you anti-Christ "Christian", I am the real deal. Had it not been for men and women through out the ages like me there would be no Christianity. They would have never fashioned a sword against the hate that comes from people like you. This site is full of "love thy neighbor" fools who would continue to try to reason with the unreasonable untill the unreasonable removed thier so-called "Christian" heads. Come for mine and God will give me the power to remove 100 of yours.

In response to your pathetic excuse for being anti-Christian. People do not live in communities surrounded by my "brand of Christianity". They live in communities much like this one, a very tolerant and forgiving little "if we love everyone the bad will go away." Strangly, they are like that but the bad such as yourself plagues them even more.

You know what? This is my thread. I know that topics change as they progress in a thread, therefore, you nor I am off topic. We are following simple progression.

[Epiphany]

My "brand" of Christianity is probably less than 1% of Christians.
I have to agree. I wish my, "brand", of Christianity was being taught today. It seems that mostly mainstream Christianity is being preached. It's giving people this notion that as long as you say you believe in Jesus and you show up to church, then you are saved. There is so much more than that.

[BlackBillBlake]

Although you are still off topic, I am going to respond to you at the risk of being banned.

My "brand" of Christianity is probably less than 1% of Christians. I am a Christian who fights fire with fire and one who is willing to fight to the death for my God and my Saviour. Why not? Jesus died for me. Am I too valuable to die for Him? I have the heart that my God gifted me with and it is much like the one He gifted to warriors such as 'Joan of Arc' and others who did not stand by and watch evil destroy the words of God. No, I am not a saint, but I am my God and Saviours sword on this forum. I am not a "we love you and forgive you anti-Christ "Christian", I am the real deal. Had it not been for men and women through out the ages like me there would be no Christianity. They would have never fashioned a sword against the hate that comes from people like you. This site is full of "love thy neighbor" fools who would continue to try to reason with the unreasonable untill the unreasonable removed thier so-called "Christian" heads. Come for mine and God will give me the power to remove 100 of yours.


I am not anti-Christian, but really I think this sort of talk is one of the main reasons a lot of folks are.
Clearly, Christianity has done nothing to reduce your egotism - 'I am the real deal' - but Jesus forgave even those who murdered him.
If I were you I would seriously consider beating this sword you express such enthusiasm for into a ploughshare.
As for 'reasoning with the unreasonable' - no logical proof exists of God's existence, so it is not unreasonable to have doubts. What is not acceptable is the promotion of your Christian belief through negative attitudes towards non-believers. All that will do is harden them in their unbelief. An intelligent presentation of Christ's teaching, done with sensitivity and love is the only hope to convince the sceptic.

[loverofthewoods]

that is why God said in the very first commandment, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods except me".
did you even read my posts? my point was ...fuck it, nevermind.

i am officially quitting the christian forum...it was never really my place to throw this shit out there to begin with i suppose, who am i to try to get others to ask questions about their faith instead of follow blindly. i guess what ever makes you happy is best for you though.

you just cant have a resonable debate with a christian...i offer proof, they offer bible passages. anyway, im done here

[Tristen]

People often argue against what they don't fully understand.
Think about quote above... That's all I am going to say..


Also, stop..Thanks

[Lilyrayne]

Warrior, you need to learn to open your eyes and your heart. You are about to get yourself disrepected and disliked by both Christians AND Non-Christians with this "Holier than thou" act of yours. I know you're not going to listen, so all I can do is pray for you that you will see the light.

I am willing to do whatever God wants me to do, just like you. But what God wants me to do may be different than what God wants you to do, and just because it is different doesn't mean that one of us is wrong. Even if it meant one of us was wrong, you do not have the right to say that what you believe is "the true way" and everyone else is screwed.

I've been reading your posts. While I appreciate that you are "on fire" for God and you feel so strong in your convictions, I think there is a lot you need to learn, because you aren't gonna get anywhere being the way you are. You are too focused on "the rules" instead of on what it's really all about. I feel sorry for you, because you dig yourself into a hole and then wonder why no one wants to help you out of it. Your words are hurtful to Christians and especially to non-Christians, and I know that is something God doesn't want. I wish you knew it.

I know that, being the way you are, you are going to continue to be stubborn and full of yourself. But I tried. You'll be in my prayers. I know God loves me and listens to me, even if by your personal, deluded, close-minded, unaccepting, unloving, and unJesus-like standards I am not a "true Christian". I know I am. That's what is important.

[sweatininthesouth]

My "brand" of Christianity is probably less than 1% of Christians. I am a Christian who fights fire with fire and one who is willing to fight to the death for my God and my Saviour.

Osama bin Laden is saying the same thing about his "brand" of Islam. Warrior, it is YOUR kind and bin Laden's kind that are ripping this world apart over your "brand" of religion.....it is sickening. You and he are the same, cut out of the same cloth.....don't you see it! You are blinded by your own hate. You have NO love in your heart and neither does bin Laden.

Do you have children??? What kind of children are you raising, Warrior? God help your kids, because you sure aren't! You sound like a card-carrying member of the Klan. You, are a very, very scary person and I thank God you are not my neighbor.

[peace_sells]

ok I have been brought up in christianity. I have been to several different denomination churches. I know the ins and the outs. I won't say I'm an expert because I think it would be wrong for anyone to say that.
But being brought up in those surroundings my whole life I never knew any other kind of path. My eyes were always shielded from the other religions and my parents became worried if I started to investigate - what were they trying to hide? A whole load of new perspectives on things.
There is nothing you can do to say "Christianity is right" because none of us know. None of us have FACT that Christianity is right because otherwise everyone would believe it. All religions eventually come down to the same things, they're all just versions and versions, yet you tell the other religions that they are wrong. Something that we don't even know.
I think it's the people who Christianity has been imposed on throughout their life that are more likely to be anti-christian - take maralyn manson for example - if you read his autobiography you'll see exactly WHY he's turned out how he has.

[peace_sells]

I think most of the time it's actually the Christians who turn people against God. It's nothing to do with rebelling against God or the good book or anything. Just the people.

[roly]

like i said, all the "fake gods" i mentioned were worshiped long before christ.

horus was worshiped in egypt over 5000 years ago. its history bro


just coz these so called deities were apparently around before Jesus doesn't make them real. Jesus is the truth.....bro.


roly.xxx

[roly]

Fair enough. I gave an "on-topic" answer: The reason that some atheists and agnostics dislike Christians is because they live in communities surrounded by YOUR brand of Christianity, which any rational person (Christian or non-Christian) finds offensive. If my knowledge of Christianity was limited to the things you've posted on this forum, I'd probably be anti-Christian too.


i'm rational and a christian......warrior is entitled to have her/his opinon as are you......y so angry abbadabba? plus....what do u mean by brand of christianity...?

roly,xxx

[LuciferSam]

just coz these so called deities were apparently around before Jesus doesn't make them real. Jesus is the truth.....bro.


roly.xxx Wow! Such a convincing argument!:p

Doesn't make Jesus real either. It's stuff like this, I think, that makes Christians look silly - this whole you-don't-know-the-truth junk. Your religion is a faith, man, not fact. That's what makes religion religion. Now you have your opinions, of course, but it doesn't excuse arrogant, holier-than-thou condescension.

[FreakyJoeMan]

It's funny, christians, to a person of another religion's eyes, you astray, walking off the Holy Path. And they wish that they could make you see the light, but you can't force someone to do that. We're all going to hell, in someone elses eyes.

[loverofthewoods]

just coz these so called deities were apparently around before Jesus doesn't make them real. Jesus is the truth.....bro.


roly.xxx
i never said they were real...i simply said christianity borrowed its stories and symbolism from other dieties. and i thought i did a pretty good job at giving evidence to support my statement, but i guess you cant make people see what they dont want to see

[campbell34]

This can counter a couple of peoples posts but especially loverofthewood's post. You say that the stories of the Bible where copied off from other religions, then why are there chariot wheels dated back to the time of Moses. And there aren't just chariot wheels on the bottom there are whole chariots, there are spairs, and humans remains. Go read the story of the red sea crossing-if you forgot and then go to this site... http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/exwheel3.JPG

and by the way Ron Wyatt is not the only one that has gone down and researched this- many others have.... so please don't try to discredit Ron Wyatt.


I'll be gone for 2 weeks on a fishing trip... so I wont be able to hear your lovely respones.

[roly]

Wow! Such a convincing argument!:p

Doesn't make Jesus real either. It's stuff like this, I think, that makes Christians look silly - this whole you-don't-know-the-truth junk. Your religion is a faith, man, not fact. That's what makes religion religion. Now you have your opinions, of course, but it doesn't excuse arrogant, holier-than-thou condescension.

It IS fact however if u have felt God....and in honesty you're right i cant explain this....except to say its the truth coz i've felt it....thats the problem y'see.....'til you've felt it ur gonna mock it, i kno i did so i cant really judge you either...however i quite liked my witty *coughs* bro thing! lol! PLus i'm not arrogant or holier than thou.....i totally understand how annoying christians can be.....i used to think so too.

roly.xxx

[roly]

i never said they were real...i simply said christianity borrowed its stories and symbolism from other dieties. and i thought i did a pretty good job at giving evidence to support my statement, but i guess you cant make people see what they dont want to see

I tried to see ur point but y'see the Bible tells me that my God is the only one....just coz there are loads of religions brfore christianity and they are similar to it doesn't mean that Chrstianity took these ideas...its a coincidence. The Bible was written as an account for real events as well as parables.

roly.xxx

[LuciferSam]

and by the way Ron Wyatt is not the only one that has gone down and researched this- many others have.... so please don't try to discredit Ron Wyatt. Sorry but I'm gonna have to do that anyway:p

http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/ Bam.

Ron Wyatt was full of it, not terribly surprising, 'cuz otherwise it would've obviously been a much bigger story. Just another case of people exploiting the faithful's will to believe. And that link's coming from a Christian site too.

Enjoy your fishing trip, though.

It IS fact however if u have felt God....and in honesty you're right i cant explain this....except to say its the truth coz i've felt it....thats the problem y'see.....'til you've felt it ur gonna mock it, i kno i did so i cant really judge you either...however i quite liked my witty *coughs* bro thing! lol! PLus i'm not arrogant or holier than thou.....i totally understand how annoying christians can be.....i used to think so too. That's better, I'm fine with that, since you acknowledge it's a subjective view.

[roly]

Sorry but I'm gonna have to do that anyway:p

http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/ Bam.

Ron Wyatt was full of it, not terribly surprising, 'cuz otherwise it would've obviously been a much bigger story. Just another case of people exploiting the faithful's will to believe. And that link's coming from a Christian site too.

Enjoy your fishing trip, though.

That's better, I'm fine with that, since you acknowledge it's a subjective view.

hoorah!

roly.xxx

[SimpleMan]

remember that christians once tried to erase other religons. this is way back mind u. but it has always been looked at that christianity is a violent religon. and then compare it to buddism and u look like the warlords of the world. u asked u got an answer from a non believer. don't bite my head off.

There was a time in history when rulers who were govered by Satan tried to spread Christianity throughout the world by the sword....its sad.

NO true Christian would do that nor would have. Its just that simple. Christianity is not complex...the devil would like and does make you think that. (Thats not directed at you meiska)

[loverofthewoods]

There was a time in history when rulers who were govered by Satan tried to spread Christianity throughout the world by the sword....its sad.


you'd think god would take better care of his church then do somthing like let satan run it...

[HonkyTonk]

Ah, but why would God mettle in the affairs of mortals? I think part of the reason that christainity is becoming more militant is that much of it's public veiws and symbols are being labeled "discrimatory" or "prejudiced". Which in my veiw it isn't. The 10 commandments are not only a historic cornerstone of most modern western laws, but they are also very true. "Thou shalt have no other gods before", this could be taken as totally and arrogantly christain, but take it as a veiw of yours. For example, let's say you're an atheist and you believe that you are god, in that case you want no one else veiwed higher than you in YOUR eyes. I see no point in ripping down these old religious symbols, they aren't offensive unless you make them so.

[LuciferSam]

Uhh... that doesn't make sense. Atheists don't believe that they themselves are gods, because atheists don't believe in gods.

[HonkyTonk]

I was trying to make a point. Just see things as you want to see them. Do you find anything offensive about the 10 commandments?

[LuciferSam]

:Shrug: Offended wouldn't be the right word, it's pretty hard to offend me. I don't say that there's nothing meritable about the Ten Commandments, but I think when we want to incorporate its ideas into government we could just easily sift out the good advice that's in it without having to patronize a religion. I'm not really offended by it but I don't think we need the religious connotation either.

[Epiphany]

Ah, but why would God mettle in the affairs of mortals?
God created us. We are his children. When your children do something that you specifically asked them not to do, wouldn't you interfere? Of course, it seems that parents are too self-involved nowadays to be part of their childrens lives. Their kids are having sex at earlier ages, walking around baring half of their bodies, doing drugs, drinking, and disregarding all sense of morals and vaules. Most parents walk around, blind to it all.

[LuciferSam]

Eh, I more see it as more parents realizing that a lot of traditional morals and such aren't really as important or as valid as they were made out to be, and some parents can trust their kids to do those things (more or less) responsibly. Just my opinion though. I don't unequivocably support all those activities you've mentioned, but it's also more of a personal choice thing.

[HonkyTonk]

Well, things do seem to be morally defunct today, but i wasn't around during the golden generation so i can't compare things. A decline in religion though usually signals an immense collapse in morals as well.

[LuciferSam]

Well, morals are mostly a relative thing, once you get past the basic don't-kill-steal-harm-people mark. Not everyone has to fit within one precise set of morals.

[HonkyTonk]

Still a lack of morals is usually the beginning of the end for anything. Rome, Sodom, the Mongol Empire, European Colonies (but WW2 had alot to do with that) all fell after a decline in morality.

[thespeez]

What most people who consider themselves "Christian" fail to realize is that their religion has been infiltrated for roughly the last 1,700 years. During the time of persecution, Christians were probably the only group who truly understood what the meaning of respecting life was all about. They refused to engage in horrific pagan rituals such as live human and animal sacrifices, among other sick rituals.

As Christianity was gaining acceptance in the Roman empire, it became apparent to the leaders at that time that they should use this surge in popularity as a means of infiltrating and perverting Christianity. By creating a state church or religion, this became one of the catalysts for holding together the Roman Empire at a time when it had fallen into much disarray. When the persecutions ended during the early 4th century, fights began to erupt between individuals who were loyal to the church in Rome and those who were loyal to the church in Alexandria. This led to the council of Nicea in 325 A.D., where church officials decided what was to become official church doctrine. Three-hundred bishops walked out of that council. Much of the motives of why this council took place were for reasons of political expediency and not for spiritual integrity, but it was sold as the former. Many of the ramifications from that council are still being felt today.

Because most of the "Christian" churches that exist today were built upon Roman Catholic doctrine, they adopted many of the heresies that that church held. Many of the beliefs held by christians after nicea of 'abstaining' from various 'sins,' were in actuality euphemisms for something much more horrific than any civil human being could ever imagine!

When certain "Christians" talk of the ten commandments they hold views on that document that are questionably true. Many fail to take into account what the language meant at the time. I've heard many fundamentalists state to me a statement that God "hates" one thing or another. What these people have done is violate the following commandments: Bearing false witness, using the Lord's name in vain, and committing adultery. In the former two cases, this is violated by promoting a message which is contrary to the true meaning of the Word and stating that God is someone He is not. In the last case the misuse of scripture caould also be defined as betrayal, which was the origional meaning of adultery-not necessairly the infidelity that we think of today.

It's no wonder why some people who consider themselves to be decent folks are often turned away from Christianity because of the dogmatism that has perverted it. It is up to those of us to expose the deceptions and beat the manipulators at their own game. Do get a chance to look at the following sites who do a decent job trying to reveal Christianity's true message:
http://www.religioustolerance.org (http://www.religioustolerance.org/)
http://freechristians.com/Site_Contents.htm
http://www.americanunitarian.org (http://www.americanunitarian.org/)

[BlackBillBlake]

If it were not for the church, corrupt as it may have been during certain historical periods, I doubt anything of Christianity would survive to-day. It would very likely have been lost, as were many other cults and religions, with the collapse of the Roman Empire. Therefore the church has been the custodian of Christian teaching, even at times of its worst excesses of coruption in the renaissance. And when we speak of the church, do we mean the people at the top, or the ordinary, sincere christian?

The thing is fraught with contradiction - who represents better the medieval church, Saint Francis, or pope Alexander?

[LuciferSam]

True, and the church itself owed its existance and power to the Roman Empire, specifically Emperor Constantine.

But also, you can also say that if it weren't for the church, there would be many more widely different variations of Christianity than there are today, assuming that any of it would have survived. The Church dogmatically stomped out any differing faction of Christianity when it gained power, any variation it deemed unorthodox.

[roly]

If it were not for the church, corrupt as it may have been during certain historical periods, I doubt anything of Christianity would survive to-day. It would very likely have been lost, as were many other cults and religions, with the collapse of the Roman Empire. Therefore the church has been the custodian of Christian teaching, even at times of its worst excesses of coruption in the renaissance. And when we speak of the church, do we mean the people at the top, or the ordinary, sincere christian?

The thing is fraught with contradiction - who represents better the medieval church, Saint Francis, or pope Alexander?

Christianity can and does survive without church

[Defence_mechanism]

i dislike christianity because it dislikes me.

im gay.

[mynameiskc]

i dislike christianity because it dislikes me.

im gay.
so what? i'm a sinner. i like women, i like men, i think lustful thoughts constantly. get over it. ;)

[Jozak]

i suppose i should put a warning on here...DONT READ IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN AND AFRAID TO QUESTION WHAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TOLD TO YOU

instead of type up my whole bit again ill quote it from another thread...
christianity is recycled paganism...they borrowed the stories, just changed the names and places.

[/list]
This is probably not a Christian belief, per se....But I seriously am thinking about this, let me know what you think ( I am a devout Catholic/Christian btw)

I think this proves--all those stories--are all the same god, he is just using differnet names and such for different people and cultures so they can know who he is. Think about this one too--all of the women goddesses--Gia--Mother earth--I think that is a form of the Virgin Mary--to appeal to other people. I obviously think it's Christ and God taking on the forms of these other beings, but it would just show how untied we are as people more than divided. Any thoughts on this, or is this not making any sense? It's late, but my mom and I were talking about this and she thinks what I think to. (Actually, my mom is a Catholic "Witch"---its the coolest thing I have ever seen in my life. If you are confused on what that is, look it up OR PM me ill let you know.)

[Jozak]

True, and the church itself owed its existance and power to the Roman Empire, specifically Emperor Constantine.

But also, you can also say that if it weren't for the church, there would be many more widely different variations of Christianity than there are today, assuming that any of it would have survived. The Church dogmatically stomped out any differing faction of Christianity when it gained power, any variation it deemed unorthodox.
Minus Catholic/Orthodox Churches, There are somthing like 10,000+ different Protestant denominations. I don't know how many more you would want lol.:p

Christianity would have certainly have fallen had the Church not organized itself the way it did, I would bet money on it.

[bandit28]

To many people here are confusing religion with Christianity. To many folks are implying that if you go to church you are being brain washed. Well, If you are a true Christian, you study The Word of God, ask for wisdom and guidence, and listen to what The Holy Spirit tells you about these things. You don't need to pray to Mary, or any other saints. You don't have to go into a booth and confess your sins to get to heaven. You don't have to ride around on your bike and pass out books that have nothing to do with Jesus Christ. All you have to do is put you whole heart into believing and relying in and on Jesus Christ. Accept Him as your saviour, and you are guaranteed a spot in Heaven, reject Him, and you will have front row seats in hell.

You all can doubt all you want to. Do your best to derail Christianity. Those that call themselves Christians yet don't follow The Word of God will be easily swayed. However, those that do their best to live according to God's will and Jesus's teachings in The Bible will find themselves attacked on a daily basis.

PS
Come on God, I am ready for this all to end, let's light this place up and move on.

[glynos]

Pretending to believe in something doesn't really work with me. Convincing myself of such a farce to make myself feel better about my mortality also isn't my style. Besides, in heaven, all the interesting people are missing.

[steffan]

the majority of the things that put a black mark on history are centered around that cult, and stiil it continues. from the genacide of countless great peoples to flying planes into buildings, ( i know there called muslims or some such shit, but to me,, the same book, the same religon) I infuriates me that people can limit themselves in such a fasion, to beleive in something that makes absolutly no sence what so ever, how, why would the creator of the entire universe act that way, feel the need too? and when you ask "why did god tell the isrealites to destroy the zenanites, the men woman children animals? or why did he/it just do this? all you get for a response is god works in mysterous ways" or " have faith".. faith yaeh right, i have faith, faith in my ability to see right from wrong,
maybe im just vain, but why would god tell some unknown person or persons the secrets of the universe but not tell me? and how could he give me a mind and then say if you want to live in paradise dont use it. personaly i believe the universe is probaly aware of itself and i try to fallow the "golden rule" thats all i realy can do, but i will not! conform to beliefs of strangers, sorry if i have offended anyone, but i got to say have you actualy read that book? I'm meen realy read it? ask yourself with the mind you have been given , does this petty god sound like a entity worth giving yourself too?,, maybe i'm wrong, maybe i'm not but i have no choice but to keep my mind open and to learn

[mynameiskc]

most of us christians spend a great deal of time reading that book. and yeah, we still think it's worth it. i don't think anyone's going to be offended by your post, though. it's just how you feel. i was there once, too. then something happened to me. too long to explain, really, but if you want, i can tell you how and angry person like me, raised among angry atheists, ended up changing my mind. it's pretty personal, though, and i don't want to post it in the open yet. it's still pretty raw.

[loverofthewoods]

This is probably not a Christian belief, per se....But I seriously am thinking about this, let me know what you think ( I am a devout Catholic/Christian btw)

I think this proves--all those stories--are all the same god, he is just using differnet names and such for different people and cultures so they can know who he is. Think about this one too--all of the women goddesses--Gia--Mother earth--I think that is a form of the Virgin Mary--to appeal to other people. I obviously think it's Christ and God taking on the forms of these other beings, but it would just show how untied we are as people more than divided. Any thoughts on this, or is this not making any sense? It's late, but my mom and I were talking about this and she thinks what I think to. (Actually, my mom is a Catholic "Witch"---its the coolest thing I have ever seen in my life. If you are confused on what that is, look it up OR PM me ill let you know.)i would agree with the statement in bold....but i dont think we have a reliable source of information that accuratly depicts the truth. i also dont really think it matters that we dont. the path to god lies within....not in a book, or church, or a man that supposedly lived and died thousands of years ago

(if christ did live i wouldnt say he was the savior but rather a master of that invisible energy that connects us all....there have been many throughout the ages who have been able to harness it....christ no different...)

[bandit28]

there have been many throughout the ages who have been able to harness it....christ no different...) Really? Name a few. Oh, and make sure they walked on water without using some device(there must be witneses), that they fed 3,000 people with a few loaves of bread and fish, that they cured diseases with just a touch or word, oh, and lastly, that they died for our salvation.

[loverofthewoods]

Really? Name a few. Oh, and make sure they walked on water without using some device(there must be witneses), that they fed 3,000 people with a few loaves of bread and fish, that they cured diseases with just a touch or word, oh, and lastly, that they died for our salvation.does it even matter? you wouldnt believe me anyway...the "miracles" jesus is said to have performed are within all our abilities, but few ever master the skills. call it Psi, Ki, Manna whatever...its just energy, and learning to control that energy through the mind is somthing many have been able to do... the buddas, the shaman of peru, many occultists (btw occult simply means hidden knowledge)... its not easy and takes hard work but it isnt impossible. the power of the mind is far greater than most can comprehend let alone believe.

...we are all gods, gods that havent a clue...

[mynameiskc]

i think that christ was sinless and sacrificed himself is the most important part of his life. as for his miracles and healings, like lover here said, many are capable of this, as gifts from god. look at the miracles and healings done by his apostles after his death.

[Defence_mechanism]

so what? i'm a sinner. i like women, i like men, i think lustful thoughts constantly. get over it.what? get over that christianity, or rather the church, has organised itself in such a way as to hate me? i dont think i will. ill get over it when they do.

im aware not all christians are homophobic, but i think its wrong that an institution that promotes love of all cannot get over the differences of others.

[mynameiskc]

what? get over that christianity, or rather the church, has organised itself in such a way as to hate me? i dont think i will. ill get over it when they do.

im aware not all christians are homophobic, but i think its wrong that an institution that promotes love of all cannot get over the differences of others.
i'm a christian. i'm over it. i'm also not a member of a church. i prefer the company of the bible and some prayers to the company of most church-goers. people are fallablie and prone to prejudices and hatreds. whatever other gripes you may have against christianity, i don't find this one to be all that worth hanging onto.

[bandit28]

i'm a christian. i'm over it. i'm also not a member of a church. i prefer the company of the bible and some prayers to the company of most church-goers. people are fallablie and prone to prejudices and hatreds. whatever other gripes you may have against christianity, i don't find this one to be all that worth hanging onto. Perfect example of someone not following The Bible. Find a church. If you concentrate of the negativity of people in the church, then you are letting Satan win. We are instructed to fellowship and praise. What better place to do it than in a church? Can't find a good one? Find one out of someones home, find something, but don't allow Satan to lure you away from the truth.

[mynameiskc]

Perfect example of someone not following The Bible. Find a church. If you concentrate of the negativity of people in the church, then you are letting Satan win. We are instructed to fellowship and praise. What better place to do it than in a church? Can't find a good one? Find one out of someones home, find something, but don't allow Satan to lure you away from the truth.
the bible tells us to commune with believers for support of one another. this is what i prefer to do. there's nothing that says i have to attend church on the sabbath to commune with god, either. i have yet to find a single church not bogged down with rules and regulations that make no sense to me. people end up following the rules of a church instead of the rules of god. you may be willing to associate yourself with a people who find regulations written by men (with good intentions? perhaps) but i have little faith in men.

[bandit28]

Explain to me the rules that every church has that keep you from going there. Is it the "no running in hallways"? Perhaps it's the "no food allowed past this sign". Please, share with me these rules that every church has around you that keeps you from going.

[campbell34]

It is tuff to find a good church today. There are many corrupt churches. Wether it be with money, sex or lies good churches are scarce. I have attended numerous churches in my 19 years which is not saying much but the majority of them where not good. Most of what I have learned about the Bible and God is from my own research and my father. I have learned very little from church although I must say that the church I attend now is the best church I have ever been too. It is hard to put up an argument for going to church because lots churches and the people in the churches are so screwed up and do not even know what they believe. Which can mainly be the fault of poor preaching. I would still urged a person to go to church although there may be corruption in some churches; there is corruption everywhere. Not even Christians are perfect. You must search for the best church and I assure you there will be people there that trully love the Lord. They will help you grow closer to Christ.


I have put this own the forum before but here is what my dad wrote about churches.


"As the future of the human race progresses, we are approaching the time of the ultimate confrontation. The author of good and the embodiment of evil will meet to do battle at a place called Armageddon. As that final hour approaches, many Christians are asleep at the switch. Instead of warning the world of God's impending and inescapable judgement, many priests and ministers are preaching a "watered downed" gospel and turning their sanctuaries into social classrooms. They preach nothing but "feel good" messages. They spoon feed their congregation and actively resist any talk of Christ's return. These "feel good" churches are the leading cause of the "dumbing down" of the American Christian. The conflict in the Middle East, between Israel and its neighbors, is the beginning of the end of time as we know it. Yet, from so many pulpits across America, we hear nothing but silence, which has left large numbers of church attenders and young people clueless. If the church cannot find its voice and warn the world of God's Return, then who will? The signs of His coming are everywhere. Now is the time for all Christian churches to stand up, present the evidence of the coming of our Christ, and give a lost world a chance to be saved from the wrath of God--which will surely come."

[mynameiskc]

Explain to me the rules that every church has that keep you from going there. Is it the "no running in hallways"? Perhaps it's the "no food allowed past this sign". Please, share with me these rules that every church has around you that keeps you from going.
well, all due respect to jozak, but my first church, being catholic had some shit that got under my skin, like papal infallibility, sunday sabbaths, and first communion rules.

the same went for my second church, the anglicans. basically catholic but without the pope.

the next was baptist. man, the people there were so unbelievable judgemental about homosexuals and sins, but had NO PROBLEM whatsoever making other people work on the sabbath (the after church lunch at denny's.) or violating other laws of god as long as they went on sundays.

then there was the SDA's. i rather enjoyed some of their practicl approaches to the studying of the OT and it's laws, but that whole vegan/vegetarian thing kinda wore on one after a while, as well as the rigid set of rules set down by their founders. there was also way to much emphasis placed ontheir personal prophetess. some interesting reading, and the bible clearly states that the gift of prophecy lives, but i'd rather read the bible first.

even the non-denom's people were making me crazy. hypocrites and liars leading the church. services and music that had no appeal or soul. people who also held no appeal for me. these are NOT my people. my people are thinkers, questioners, READERS, philosophers. not packs of people who don't bother to actually discuss the gospel or the bible in sunday schools.

i've sought, and i haven't found. what i HAVE found is peace in studying my bible. i ask a question, i get my answer. i have my like-minded friends and acquaintances who can disagree with me on a point in doctrine without losing their heads or think i'm "un-christian" or "un-patriotic" (i don't even know HOW that comes into the conversation, but it invariably does).

[Jozak]

well, all due respect to jozak, but my first church, being catholic had some shit that got under my skin, like papal infallibility, sunday sabbaths, and first communion rules.
That's fine KC, if you disagree with something, I don't care, you are intelligent enough and respectfull enough of a person to say so. You don't have this blind hatred, so I have no problem.

The problem with papal infallibility is most people, even Catholics, for them; it's hard to understand. Most people think it means the pope is perfect. That's not what it means. (I am not saying you don't know what it means, but just posting this for everyone else.) The basic premise is from this verse in the bible, in which Jesus instructed the apostoles (bishops): "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16), and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt. 18:18). Another one is Luke 22:32--"I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail." It basically means, as I understand it as best I can, we beleive the Holy Spirit is guiding the Pope's decisions in the church, and that they will not fall away from the teachings of Christ.

This is a pretty good, simple understanding of it from Catholic writer Karl Keating:
["Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might.
As Christians began to more clearly understand the teaching authority of the Church and of the primacy of the pope, they developed a clearer understanding of the pope’s infallibility. This development of the faithful’s understanding has its clear beginnings in the early Church. For example, Cyprian of Carthage, writing about 256, put the question this way, "Would the heretics dare to come to the very seat of Peter whence apostolic faith is derived and whither no errors can come?" (Letters 59 [55], 14). In the fifth century, Augustine succinctly captured the ancient attitude when he remarked, "Rome has spoken; the case is concluded" (Sermons 131, 10)."]


I'd be interested, KC, if you told me what commuinion rules bother you and why Sunday sabbath bothers you, considering Catholic masses are held on Saturdays as well, AND during the weekdays?

[mynameiskc]

That's fine KC, if you disagree with something, I don't care, you are intelligent enough and respectfull enough of a person to say so. You don't have this blind hatred, so I have no problem.

The problem with papal infallibility is most people, even Catholics, for them; it's hard to understand. Most people think it means the pope is perfect. That's not what it means. (I am not saying you don't know what it means, but just posting this for everyone else.) The basic premise is from this verse in the bible, in which Jesus instructed the apostoles (bishops): "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16), and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt. 18:18). Another one is Luke 22:32--"I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail." It basically means, as I understand it as best I can, we beleive the Holy Spirit is guiding the Pope's decisions in the church, and that they will not fall away from the teachings of Christ.

This is a pretty good, simple understanding of it from Catholic writer Karl Keating:
["Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might.
As Christians began to more clearly understand the teaching authority of the Church and of the primacy of the pope, they developed a clearer understanding of the pope’s infallibility. This development of the faithful’s understanding has its clear beginnings in the early Church. For example, Cyprian of Carthage, writing about 256, put the question this way, "Would the heretics dare to come to the very seat of Peter whence apostolic faith is derived and whither no errors can come?" (Letters 59 [55], 14). In the fifth century, Augustine succinctly captured the ancient attitude when he remarked, "Rome has spoken; the case is concluded" (Sermons 131, 10)."]


I'd be interested, KC, if you told me what commuinion rules bother you and why Sunday sabbath bothers you, considering Catholic masses are held on Saturdays as well, AND during the weekdays?



well, in my understanding, anyone who is a baptised christian is able to receive communion. i like the way the sda's did communion. it was basically a supper complete witht he foot washing, and everyone received communion. i think that makes more sense.

sunday is called the sabbath. why? because the pope said so. if christ was celebrating the sabbath on saturday, that's good enough for me.

as for papal infallibility, honestly, can you really believe that the popes of the past have even listened to the holy spirit? i rather like this current one, aside from a few decisions. at least he seems to try to listen to god.

[SageDreamer]

My experience may not be typical, but I've met my share of Christians who are bashers themselves. Much of the world has a live-and-let-live attitude toward matters of religion and spirituality, and there are a significant number of Christians (at least a very visible minority) who don't see it this way.


I'm not talking about all or most Christians, but there are some very high-profile people who seem to want everyone in the world to believe as they do and are very pushy about it. There are also people who at least claim to be Christians who are very active in politics who want the government to reflect their anti-abortion and anti-gay people positions. If these people were more into their own spiritual growth than pushing these positions on everyone else, there would almost certainly be less "Christian-bashing."

[Jozak]

well, in my understanding, anyone who is a baptised christian is able to receive communion. i like the way the sda's did communion. it was basically a supper complete witht he foot washing, and everyone received communion. i think that makes more sense.
The problem is though Protestants and Catholics take communion for different reasons, times, etc. We take communion every mass, and beleive in the real presence of Christ's body and blood. Protestants generally bleieve it to be a symbol of his grace, so why would I take something I don't beleive? I would never take non-catholic commuion, for my own beliefs and out of respect for the other people's church.

sunday is called the sabbath. why? because the pope said so. if christ was celebrating the sabbath on saturday, that's good enough for me.
I forgot why it was changed, or who did it, but most Christians use Sunday as well. Catholics use Saturday Sabbath as well, so there really is no problem I can see.

[seamonster66]

Quote: We take communion every mass, and beleive in the real presence of Christ's body and blood

Its a cracker, you must be delusional.

[mynameiskc]

i have no problem with people taking communion every mass. what i don't believe is making people jump through hoops to get it.


i read a catechism (sp?) once. on the question as to why the sabbath was changed to sunday, the answer was basically "because the pope said so."

now, if a day has been set aside by god to be the holy day of rest, how does the pope have the ability to change that? this day has been set aside for all god's children to rest and think on him. chaning the day of rest means changing that people who should be observing god's day are doing their housework, stopping by mass, then going about other business. it kinda takes the crux out of the day. also, it's very difficult for people who wish to observe teh true sabbath to observe that day of rest because the rest of the world has been duped into accepting sunday as a sabbath, instead of saturday.

[FreakyJoeMan]

"I often wonder what the atheists think of the laws that are
going to be passed against those who cannot tolerate the
religious beliefs of others,and what are they going to do when
they are forced to become part of the religious system when all religions are united together?
Most will no doubt conform. Have you known many atheists
who will die for what they claim they believe?
Atheists love sin,and they know it. No secret there,duh!"

This is a quote from "dna"

I frankly was offended by this, and not much offends me.

[mynameiskc]

what about it offended you? in particular, i mean, what is your objection to the quote. i know what mine would be but wouldn't think to speak for an atheist any more than i would for a buddhist or hindu.

[Jozak]

Quote: We take communion every mass, and beleive in the real presence of Christ's body and blood

Its a cracker, you must be delusional.It's not a cracker once the priest blesses it and becomes the body of Christ. To you, obviously a non-Catholic, it is a cracker, and it is until the process of transubstantiation comes into play, it is. Again, this is probably one of the biggest dividers among Catholics/Protestants that is alive to this day. The other one, quite frankly, is Mary.

[seamonster66]

quote:It's not a cracker once the priest blesses it and becomes the body of Christ.

So once a person who may or may not molest children, but has at least gone to seminary school says a few words a cracker, flour and a few other things, becomes the body of a man whos been dead for at least 2,000 years.......and you think that you are NOT part of cult?!

[bandit28]

seamonster66, is it possable for you to grow up? You my friend are old news. Nothing you have or want to say is new. Everyone has heard it already. It is clear from your posts that you are not a believer in Christ. You are not a foolower of His teachings. Guess what...we are. Get over yourself and quit trying to impress your other non believe friends that come into this forum looking for a laugh or attempting to persuade a believer into something else. I recomend you just shut up and allow your brain to catch up to your age, perhaps then your maturity level can develope to that of at least a 13 yr old and compassion and understanding will take over. Until then, keep your rude remarks and degrading theories to yourself.

By the way, I am not Catholic nor do I support that religion(or any religion for that matter). I am however a Christian. Perhaps God will judge me on this day for not turning the other cheek. His will be done, and so am I.

[LuciferSam]

By the way, I am not Catholic nor do I support that religion(or any religion for that matter). I am however a Christian. Perhaps God will judge me on this day for not turning the other cheek. His will be done, and so am I.
Uh... call me a nitpicker, but Christianity is a religion dude.:H

[seamonster66]

Everything I say , i believe, and since this is a thread against christianity, and I am anti-christian, it seems I have found the right place to state these opinions.

you exhibit no characteristics of a true christian yet you claim to be one, you don't follow his teachings either.

I am trying to impress no one, i just think you are a moron and love fucking with you.

I will keep nothing to myself, if you can't handle it then ignore me like the weak minded fool you are.

so in short, you shut up, these forums are for posting opinions.

Lucifer sam is right, christianity is a religion and a cult.

[Bacchus]

By the large number of threads started to attack Christians and the huge volume of posts against Christians, I am compelled to ask, "Why? Why do so many deem it neccessary to attack the morals and beliefs of Christians?" Most will come to the defense of religions, and nonreligions that are not Christian based, but rarely does one come to the defense of Christians. There are many religions and beliefs that are much older than Christianity, but they are not attacked. A lot of what I read against Christianity is that it is old, or outdated. Seems to me that by that reasoning, no belief system beyond last year is worthy of believing. What do Christian bashers gain by thier assaults on Christians?

We attack because no other system of beliefs has wrought so much suffering on to mankind.

Call it a prejudice, but it's one born out of experience.

[seamonster66]

Warrior has already been banned for spouting neo nazi beliefs.............I believe people should be able to say what they want,non-violently, but he did mention picking fights with minorities.

[mynameiskc]

all religions are cults in the basic sense of the word. in the modern sense, most aren't.

[Cosmic Butterfly]

We are all Jesus we are all one! It is when we start to believe that God is seperate from us and we start pointing fingers. My problem with the Christians and the bible is that the message is scrambled. A bunch of rich aristocrats, and wanna be saints wrote the bible. They messed with the message of Jesus and used it to their advantage. It was a meaning of control, a certain way of governing.

Jesus is a buddha, we are all buddhas. All those Gods mentioned earlier (Horus, Mithra, etc) are real. It was not a lie. It is only a lie when you let your ego tell you otherwise. It is a lie that Christians call other people in places like South America heathens and without God. They felt the magical feeling of divinity in their heart and soul too. They felt the unspeakable, and immense connective presence. Wether it was ancient tribes consuming peyote, monks in some remote temple, Sufi's, Jews, Yogi's in a cave....God was with them.

Realization of our divine nature has been given to us in different messages but it all the same. ALL ONE ALL GOD "I AM" GOD WAS WITH THEM BECAUSE WE ARE GOD AND GOD IS EVERYWHERE.
Things start to get ugly when we point the finger. When we say you are wrong and my(ego) is right. It is just insanity or even the delusion of dark force(Devil, Shaitan, Satan).

Jesus said " The Kingdom (of Heaven) is inside you and it is outside you"


"Blessed are the Pure in Heart, for they shall see GOD.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven

"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you!
Matthew 5

"LOVE ONE ANOTHER!"



John 15:12

[mynameiskc]

how do we know you're right? how do you know we're wrong?

[LuciferSam]

all religions are cults in the basic sense of the word. in the modern sense, most aren't.
To quote Tom Wolfe - "a cult is a religion with no political power."

[Jozak]

So once a person who may or may not molest children,
but has at least gone to seminary school says a few words a cracker, flour and a few other things, becomes the body of a man whos been dead for at least 2,000 years.......and you think that you are NOT part of cult?!The percentage of priests who are child molesters is very small, and there are just as many pedophiles in other proffessions, they are everywhere unfortunently. You are getting off topic, are we talking about transubstnatiation or are talking about pedophilia? I am trying to be respectful and explain to you what catholics beleive, but everyone can plainly see you are not interested in that, only in being a bigot against a religion. That is your mindset, it is ignorant, immature, and uneducated, but no matter how in depth i go you wont care or even keep an open mind. You are no better than Warrior either--dont throw stones in glass houses, seamonster.

[bandit28]

you exhibit no characteristics of a true christian yet you claim to be one, you don't follow his teachings either.
Explain yourself. That's funny you would say I don't follow His teachings, yet I do.
I am trying to impress no one, i just think you are a moron and love fucking with you.

I will keep nothing to myself, if you can't handle it then ignore me like the weak minded fool you are.

so in short, you shut up, these forums are for posting opinions.
Yay for more imaturity.

We attack because no other system of beliefs has wrought so much suffering on to mankind.
Actualy, the muslim religion has killed far more people in it's strugle to convert the world. Get your facts straight please.

Warrior has already been banned for spouting neo nazi beliefs.............I believe people should be able to say what they want,non-violently, but he did mention picking fights with minorities. I don't see how this has anything to do with the current topic, please quit trying to change the thread, that is banable you know.

And now for the fun:
We are all Jesus we are all one! It is when we start to believe that God is seperate from us and we start pointing fingers. My problem with the Christians and the bible is that the message is scrambled. A bunch of rich aristocrats, and wanna be saints wrote the bible. They messed with the message of Jesus and used it to their advantage. It was a meaning of control, a certain way of governing.
Throughout this forum you will find several threads that proove your theory wrong. However, because I am a closed minded Christian, please show your proof to your claims. Secondly, you attempt to discredit The Bible, then later in your post, you quote scripture. Seriously, you just destroyed your entire post. Oh yeah, and God clearly stated that there would be no other gods before Him. Not only did this include money and like things, but also these gods you mention(Horus, Mithra, etc). Make up your mind on further posts please, you can't use parts of The Bible and throw the rest away. You are either for God or against Him, not in the middle.

[Mui]

Hahahahahaha hahaha wow

that is some funny shit right there.

[loveflower]

We are all Jesus we are all one! It is when we start to believe that God is seperate from us and we start pointing fingers. My problem with the Christians and the bible is that the message is scrambled. A bunch of rich aristocrats, and wanna be saints wrote the bible. They messed with the message of Jesus and used it to their advantage. It was a meaning of control, a certain way of governing.

Jesus is a buddha, we are all buddhas. All those Gods mentioned earlier (Horus, Mithra, etc) are real. It was not a lie. It is only a lie when you let your ego tell you otherwise. It is a lie that Christians call other people in places like South America heathens and without God. They felt the magical feeling of divinity in their heart and soul too. They felt the unspeakable, and immense connective presence. Wether it was ancient tribes consuming peyote, monks in some remote temple, Sufi's, Jews, Yogi's in a cave....God was with them.

Realization of our divine nature has been given to us in different messages but it all the same. ALL ONE ALL GOD "I AM" GOD WAS WITH THEM BECAUSE WE ARE GOD AND GOD IS EVERYWHERE.
Things start to get ugly when we point the finger. When we say you are wrong and my(ego) is right. It is just insanity or even the delusion of dark force(Devil, Shaitan, Satan).





i liked that :)

[roly]

Explain yourself. That's funny you would say I don't follow His teachings, yet I do.
Yay for more imaturity.

Actualy, the muslim religion has killed far more people in it's strugle to convert the world. Get your facts straight please.

I don't see how this has anything to do with the current topic, please quit trying to change the thread, that is banable you know.

And now for the fun:
Throughout this forum you will find several threads that proove your theory wrong. However, because I am a closed minded Christian, please show your proof to your claims. Secondly, you attempt to discredit The Bible, then later in your post, you quote scripture. Seriously, you just destroyed your entire post. Oh yeah, and God clearly stated that there would be no other gods before Him. Not only did this include money and like things, but also these gods you mention(Horus, Mithra, etc). Make up your mind on further posts please, you can't use parts of The Bible and throw the rest away. You are either for God or against Him, not in the middle.


Guys, its all about Jesus , not petty arguements....no one can say what the other believes is wrong...it should be personal faith should...

[thespeez]

so what? i'm a sinner. i like women, i like men, i think lustful thoughts constantly. get over it. ;)
Well, we're ALL sinners. Be mindful, though, that the term lust meant something totally different than what it means today. When you think of that term are you meaning that you desire to steal away another's mate, or are you saying that you feel the desire to share your body with another? The former is what Jesus in the sermon on the mount was referring to, NOT the latter.
Also, Sexual immorality in the bible had little to do with voluntary sexual relations outside of an 'approved' institution, but was a reference to sexual torture, rape, deceit and other deplorable actions. As I've stated before, we must understand what the origional intent of scripture was and not try not to take things out of context. Try understanding all of the logistics that were in place at the time.

[seamonster66]

Quote: That is your mindset, it is ignorant, immature, and uneducated, but no matter how in depth i go you wont care or even keep an open mind.

I am better than you and warrior, everything about me is way superior, you are wrong, what you believe in is criminal and should be abolished from the world


Quote: Yay for more imaturity.


Yay for believing in outdated and deploreable propaganda.

PS...you primitive kids are so easy to rile

[JesusDiedForU]

Yay for believing in outdated and deploreable propaganda.


-What is your belief system based on?? Mine is based on fact. Where do you think people came from??

[Showtime/Redneck-Bud]

"Where do you think people came from!?"

Well... i don't know about everyone else... but i was created by my mom and dad fucking... and they were created by their parents fucking... and so on and so on... as for everything before that... who cares? if i go through life worrying about where we came from, why were here, and where we are gonna go when we die... i'm not gonna get anything impo'tant done... i've got books and movies and comics to write, and i'm not gonna get any of it done by worryin' about stupid stuff like that... so... that's all i have to say... buh-bye and peace, man...

[The World of Dan]

I'm happy to admit that I don't like christanity. I don't have any problems with any individual christans (some of my very good friends are christan), and I have respect for christanity as a religion... But I don't like it.

Why?

Well, this is very much a generalisation (and again aimed at the church as a whole, not individuals), but I don't like the way that they try and force their faith onto other people. It's something that has been going on for years, and I don't think it's fair.

I'm happy for you to believe what you believe - if jesus died for you, i'm happy... but he didn't die for me, I don't even believe in him, and I'm happy with that...

I do have many many other rants against christanity, but I'm going to keep them to myself as it's not my intention to upset anyone here. And like I said, I've got a few christan friends... I just don't like the church.

(I've also got a thing against 'religion' on the whole - not against 'faith', just religion - but that's for another time).

[Jozak]

Quote: That is your mindset, it is ignorant, immature, and uneducated, but no matter how in depth i go you wont care or even keep an open mind.

I am better than you and warrior, everything about me is way superior, you are wrong, what you believe in is criminal and should be abolished from the world


Quote: Yay for more imaturity.


Yay for believing in outdated and deploreable propaganda.

PS...you primitive kids are so easy to rileHow stupid are you? Unlike warrior, I am not a fundementalist, racist piece of shit. And I stand by my statement I said earlier. You come on here, spout off bullshit, people call you on it, and you try to worm your way out. Either support your assertions and statements like an intelligent human being or shut up, becasue frankly no one here cares to hear some uneducated bigot. If by superior you mean dumb, then yes, you are.

[JesusDiedForU]

Showtime/Redneck-Bud,


"if i go through life worrying about where we came from, why were here, and where we are gonna go when we die... i'm not gonna get anything impo'tant done... i've got books and movies and comics to write, and i'm not gonna get any of it done by worryin' about stupid stuff like that... so... that's all i have to say... buh-bye and peace, man"

-Prove there is no hell because if you are right than we are both ok... but if you are wrong I am still ok but you are trouble.

Even if there is a slight chance there is a hell that is something to worry about... Hell is not stupid it is scary and you have a chance to avoid it.

[Showtime/Redneck-Bud]

JesusDiedForU,

1. Just call me Showtime, please...
2. I don't care enough to prove it...
3. Speaking of telling me to prove it, don't tell me what to do...
4. Jesus said that if you are good to yer fellow man, you will go to heaven when you die (well, his version was longer, but you get the gist), knowing that, if there is a hell i'm not worried...
5. Let me reitterate (or however it's spelled): If i spend my time worrying about all of this doom and gloom bullshit (sorry, that's the way i feel about it), i'm never gonna get off my ass, write my book, draw my comics, form my band, win the heart of the woman i love, and all sorts of other stuff i wanna accomplish before i turn 22!!
6. NO ONE'S (not even mine) beliefs are "based on fact"... it all has to do with what you personally believe... calling yer beliefs or views "facts" or (like my father does) "the voice of reason" is one of the most pompous, arrogant things to say... buh-bye and peace, man

[JesusDiedForU]

The World of Dan


Well, this is very much a generalisation (and again aimed at the church as a whole, not individuals), but I don't like the way that they try and force their faith onto other people. It's something that has been going on for years, and I don't think it's fair.

-Jesus said tell not force others about him

Mark 16:15 - And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
The problem is Christians say to a person they should use gasoline in their car and the person says "you are to narrow" "don't force me into your thinking" "I'd rather use water" But gasoline is the ONLY WAY your car will run.


I'm happy for you to believe what you believe - if jesus died for you, i'm happy... but he didn't die for me, I don't even believe in him, and I'm happy with that...

-"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (romans 10:13)

Why don't you believe in Jesus?

I do have many many other rants against christanity, but I'm going to keep them to myself as it's not my intention to upset anyone here. And like I said, I've got a few christan friends... I just don't like the church.

-A person is not saved from their sins by going to church or doing good deeds. A person is only saved by accepting and following Jesus...This concept is so hard for people to grasp.

[The World of Dan]

6. NO ONE'S (not even mine) beliefs are "based on fact"... it all has to do with what you personally believe... calling yer beliefs or views "facts" or (like my father does) "the voice of reason" is one of the most pompous, arrogant things to say... buh-bye and peace, manhere here.. well said, I agree with you 100%

[The World of Dan]

JesusDiedForU, I'm not going to even start on you. In the end I'm just going to get pissed off and do something silly like insult you, so I'm not even going to start.

I am going to ask you this question tho... I don't want the answer, I don't even care what the answer is, I just want you to think about it...

What diffrence does it make to you what I believe?

[The World of Dan]

Oh, one thing tho, mr jesus fan... I want you to read this: http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26513

[JesusDiedForU]

Showtime,



1. Just call me Showtime, please...
2. I don't care enough to prove it...
3. Speaking of telling me to prove it, don't tell me what to do...
4. Jesus said that if you are good to yer fellow man, you will go to heaven when you die (well, his version was longer, but you get the gist), knowing that, if there is a hell i'm not worried...
5. Let me reitterate (or however it's spelled): If i spend my time worrying about all of this doom and gloom bullshit (sorry, that's the way i feel about it), i'm never gonna get off my ass, write my book, draw my comics, form my band, win the heart of the woman i love, and all sorts of other stuff i wanna accomplish before i turn 22!!

-If you accept Jesus you can laugh past the black herse. Right now you close your eyes and pretend like your immortal. I don't worry either but atleast I acknwoledge there is one....I took the time to study.... You have to be willing to seek-which most people are not.

6. NO ONE'S (not even mine) beliefs are "based on fact"... it all has to do with what you personally believe... calling yer beliefs or views "facts" or (like my father does) "the voice of reason" is one of the most pompous, arrogant things to say... buh-bye and peace, man

-The proof of the Bible is what seperates Christianity from all the rest of the religions. And I am sure you nothing about the proofs of the Bible. Believing that there is no hell based off no facts is Blind Faith.

[JesusDiedForU]

What diffrence does it make to you what I believe?
I know you said you did not want the answer but I think it would help people understand alot better if I did. I'll make it general though. It would be selfish of me to let someone to die of a disease, when I knew the cure. Or it would be selfish of me let someone drowned as I am standing right off shore.

I have a free gift to share to everyone and it would be selfish of me to share it with no one. Though it is up to that person I share it with to accept or reject that free gift-the gift of salvation.

again like Jesus said...

Mark 16:15 - And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

[Showtime/Redneck-Bud]

Jesus-Man,

1. I don't believe I'm immortal, I just wanna get the stuff that matters t' me accomplished before i turn 22 (i kinda made a pact wif myself)
2. Just 'cuz somethings in a book, doesn't make it fact...
3. It's not that i have "blind faith", it's that i have... NO faith...
4. Don'cha think $10 is too much for a pack of chicken strips!? I mean, i loooves my chicken strips, but FrankZappa-damn and Jesus Christopher! that's too much for anything food-related if you ask me!
5. You did it again... yer belief's are not facts, they are yer beliefs... my beliefs aren't facts, they are my beliefs... Pat Robertson's beleifs are not facts, they are... well, insane actually, but he doesn't count!
6. In closing, here is one of my favorite quotes:

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." - Mark Twain

buh-bye and peace, man...

[The World of Dan]

I know you said you did not want the answer but I think it would help people understand alot better if I did. I'll make it general though. It would be selfish of me to let someone to die of a disease, when I knew the cure. Or it would be selfish of me let someone drowned as I am standing right off shore.

I have a free gift to share to everyone and it would be selfish of me to share it with no one. Though it is up to that person I share it with to accept or reject that free gift-the gift of salvation.

again like Jesus said...

Mark 16:15 - And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Why not, rather than spend all your time quoting scriptures at people, live your life by example, and show people the good life rather than trying to force them to accept your views? I think you would have a much better success rate.

Was it not Tertullian, one of the church fathers, who converted to christanity after attending the gladiatorial games and watching Christians being thrown to the lions, choosing death over renouncing their faith.

[JesusDiedForU]

5. You did it again... yer belief's are not facts, they are yer beliefs... my beliefs aren't facts, they are my beliefs... Pat Robertson's beleifs are not facts, they are... well, insane actually, but he doesn't count!

I would like to respond to the other ones.... but I think #5 is the most important right now.

IS THERE A GOD?
-yes
HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE IS A GOD?
-Because the Bible says
HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE IS TRUE?
-It was inspired by God
HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE WAS INSPIRED BY GOD?
-Prophetic, Archaeologic, and Scientific proof aka Something you probably never looked into because you refuse to seek the truth

[JesusDiedForU]

Why not, rather than spend all your time quoting scriptures at people, live your life by example, and show people the good life rather than trying to force them to accept your views? I think you would have a much better success rate.
I try to live by the example of Christ and the real good life is through Jesus Christ. I show this through what Jesus and the Bible says. "Force people" ...um am I holding a gun to your head??? I can tell you about Christ over and over and you can deny him till you die. No one can make you believe. You make the choice. But they can lead you to believe.

[Showtime/Redneck-Bud]

JesusFriedForU2,

It's NOT that i "refuse to seek the 'truth'"... i just don't care for it... it honestly doesn't seem all that impo'tant to me... as long as I'm playin' my guitar, makin' people laugh, and makin' love to the woman I love, I'm fine with my life...

Now... on to more impo'tant issues...

I personally think... that chicken strips should cost about $4.99... i think that is more than enough for something as wondeful and delish as chicken strips... what do you think...?

[The World of Dan]

I would like to respond to the other ones.... but I think #5 is the most important right now.

IS THERE A GOD?
-yes
HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE IS A GOD?
-Because the Bible says
HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE IS TRUE?
-It was inspired by GodIgnorance at it's finest, its the paradox that answers itself. The fiction goes around in their minds and proves itself

HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE WAS INSPIRED BY GOD?
-Prophetic, Archaeologic, and Scientific proof aka Something you probably never looked into because you refuse to seek the truthHow do you know that any of this is true? After all, this is the word of humans, and humans can lie.

[Genesis]

As regards my faith I refuse to be held accountable for the acts of extremists who claim they act in the name of god. For in truth, they are doing no good. And that is fact. standing on roadsides screaming at innocent women telling them they are wrong when in fact those who scream are wrong for judging in the first place. denying people the right to marriage outside of the house of god because it's not "natural". who are these people to determine what is natural in the eyes of god? he created all creatures alike...let him be the judge of who is "wrong" and who is "right" and i guarantee it would be those who were decent people all their lives and strove to live free of ignorance.




To act upon the "teachings" of god is to be a decent person. Loving, self-sacrificing and true to his will and testament. I believe that to truly be a Christian you strive to please god by being a good person. I mean truly good. Not nice…because god like his children can see a fool and a liar for what they are. And what we do to the least of his brothers we do to him. Therefore by serving god, we are in fact serving you.



To be decent and true to him, we must also be decent and true to our brothers and sisters alike. Whether they are of different race, or religion or sexual preference.





I believe these basic human principals. Treat others, as you would like to be treated. Judge not lest ye be judged etc. and for the majority, we as people, as non-believers and believers alike, we as people have achieved this.





But as Christians, we strive to be decent that is what we do and have tried to do for many years. And it is silly to be held accountable for those who have jaded you as non-believers.





But please don’t think I speak with rancour.



But I suggest that if anyone’s doubt and disdain derives from the acts of people…let it lie with the people not with the scapegoat they attach their acts to.



We as people behave without decency or care for our fellow man.



Influence merely comes from the want of influence and comfort of excuses.





I know the acts of few can jade you from the acts as many but we are not all to be tarnished with the same brush.





i am a christian but i do not agree with hating homosexuals or blacks [i don't know if that term is politically correct it has raised some eyebrows in the past] or even those of another faith. i believe in respect for our fellow man and i believe that those who act in hate cannot be acting out the will of god because i do not believe him to be a being of hate. and i know that sounds foolish as it is apparently stated in the bible itself that homosexuals are a sin but like a lot of christians i do not accept that as truth but mere mishandeling of truth by people.


written down it does sound silly to be honest:& and might make me sound like a very bad christian because my only cold feelings would lie with those who think they have the right to judge a belief and others do not.



i promise we're not all nut jobs :) some of us actually don't like hatred and prejudice and try ourr best to abolish it within us and our surroundings.












lol it does seem like a bit of a paradox...i think most would simply answer...i know the bible is true to"me" because i "believe" it to be true. but thats just me




now ill go back n read the rest of the posts i onlygot to read about three pages so sorry if this is a bit out of sync with the rest of everyones posts.



dia libh go léir.

[bandit28]

Well mr. Jesus Hater. I found your writing, well, stupid. If it is your work I would just not admit to it if I were you. First off, there were witnesses to Jesus being alive and performing miracles. No different than someone recording down on paper what hapened in The Civil War. You can believe it or not, noone will force it on you. You claim we as Christians force our faith and our God on you. Well, as mentioned before I do not see anyone putting a gun to your head and making you choose. As a matter of fact, did anyone force you into this thread and force you to complain about something you don't even understand? That's right, I said you don't even understand Christianity. Case in point:4. Jesus said that if you are good to yer fellow man, you will go to heaven when you die (well, his version was longer, but you get the gist), knowing that, if there is a hell i'm not worried...
No, He never said that. You can be good all you want, it wont get you inot Heaven. Perhaps if you are going to come in here and make fun of things, you might want to pick up a Bible and educate yourself on it.
2. I don't care enough to prove it...
Then why are you here? Why are you still replying? It seems to me you have made your choice, so why stick around? Perhaps you are just seeking attention.

6. NO ONE'S (not even mine) beliefs are "based on fact"... it all has to do with what you personally believe... calling yer beliefs or views "facts" or (like my father does) "the voice of reason" is one of the most pompous, arrogant things to say...
You are right there, my beliefs are not based on facts. My beliefs are based on faith. However, my faith is strengthend by facts and evidence that can not be refuted. Again, this would be a good time for you to educate yourself on Biblical history.

Thanks for you time.
God - 1
Satan - 0

[campbell34]

Well mr. Jesus Hater. I found your writing, well, stupid. If it is your work I would just not admit to it if I were you. First off, there were witnesses to Jesus being alive and performing miracles. No different than someone recording down on paper what hapened in The Civil War. You can believe it or not, noone will force it on you. You claim we as Christians force our faith and our God on you. Well, as mentioned before I do not see anyone putting a gun to your head and making you choose. As a matter of fact, did anyone force you into this thread and force you to complain about something you don't even understand? That's right, I said you don't even understand Christianity. Case in point:No, He never said that. You can be good all you want, it wont g