Women should always be worshipped

[Jedi]

Women should always be worshipped
and treated with affection.
The Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva, Section XLVI

Bhishma said: Respect, kind treatment and everything else that is agreeable, should all be given unto the maiden whose hand is taken in marriage. Her sire and brothers and father-in-law and husband’s brothers should show her every respect and adorn her with ornaments. If they be desirous of reaping benefits, for such conduct on their part always leads to considerable happiness and advantage. Women should always be worshipped and treated with affection. There where women are treated with respect, the very deities are said to be filled with joy.

There where women are not worshipped, all acts become fruitless. If the women of a family, in consequence of the treatment they receive, grieve and shed tears, that family soon becomes extinct. Those houses that are cursed by women meet with destruction and ruin as if scorched by some Atharvan rite. Such houses lose their splendour. Their growth and prosperity cease.

Do ye men show them honour. The righteousness of men
depends upon women. All pleasures and enjoyments also
completely depend upon them. Do ye serve them and worship them. Do ye bend your wills before them.

The begetting of offspring, the nursing of children already born, and the accomplishment of all acts necessary for the needs of society, behold, all these have women for their cause. By honouring women, ye are sure to attain to the fruition of all objects.

In this connection a princess of the house of Janaka the ruler of the Videhas, sang a verse. It is this: Women have no sacrifices ordained for them. There are no Sraddhas which they are called upon to perform. They are not required to observe any facts. To serve their husbands with reverence and willing obedience is their only duty. Through the discharge of that duty they succeed in conquering heaven.

In childhood, the sire protects her. The husband protects her in youth. When she becomes old, her sons protect her. At no period of her life does woman deserve to be free.

Deities of prosperity are women. The persons that desire
prosperity should honour them. By cherishing women, one
cherishes the goddess of prosperity herself, and by afflicting her, one is said to afflict the goddess of prosperity.
___________________________________

From The Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva, Section CLXII

Bhishma said:
As the sacred fire waits for libations to be poured upon it when the hour for Homa arrives, even so a woman, when her functional period is over, expects an act of congress with her husband. One that never approaches one's spouse at any other time save after the functional period, is said to observe the vow of Brahmacharya.

[BlackBillBlake]

This is all very nice in the context of ancient or medieval India, and for those of the right caste, but it can hardly be applied acrooss the board to-day.

One should 'worship' only those who are worthy of worship by virtue of their Divine qualities. Ultimately, only the Absolute, Bhraman, God, Shakti should be worshipped.
One should certainly treat all persons with respect, but this is not to say they are worthy of worship. And the respest we accord to a particular individual should not be based only on gender. To say so is really a kind of oblique insult to women.

[cerridwen]

:) right on :)

[GanjaPrince]

Women are all forms of the divine mother, thier vagina is the sacred yoni a doorway to divinity.

They should be worshipped, as should all beings in all worlds, yet the practice of worshiping woman as forms of the divine mother, is not something to be discarded, it can be very effective for certain beings with certain karma. You see, seeing beyond the veil of your own desires, fears, you see into the perfection of the woman, then deeper into the divinity, then deeper into the formlessness, where all beings are, this light shines on all things. This tranforms your being, suddenly, the beloved is everywhere. Thus when you see the world as your mother, your ego falls away. Everything is the divine mother, and you shine on your mother, unconditional love and servitude, which she returns filling you with energy, with bliss, with more love then you can dream of... The woman form, was simply a doorway, with or without tantric practice used to transform sexual energy into higher energy... Not all beings give up sex to focus on thier practice, they go through thier sexual desires, practicing the divine art of tantra, quite a challange, to use duality to achieve unity. Merging, sensual pleasure in tune, meditating upon it to achieve maximum enjoyment, then discarding the senses for divine union, Krishna and Radha! The pleasure a doorway to God, as energy races up the kundilini! It is very possible to implement this practice. Sex can be an expression of unconditional love to the divine mother, and it can help you become a more calm, peaceful, satisfied being ready to serve, ready to heal, and more free from the battle of sexual desires... Thus serving to continue on along the path, in the eternal moment.

I have gotten into this practice of worshipping women, and found it very helpful... it helped me realize the divine mother, and realize her love for me... In fact in a dream, she came to me, first manifesting as all the woman I was ever really in love with big time, then showing her energy form, the dream breaking down into a brillaint white light, telling me that she loves me in the most beautiful voice I ever heard like a thousand angels singing, there was no doubt it was the femanine aspect of God, and wants me to merge with her, it was such a beautiful gift to this beginner on the path! Although I would say, not to simply have this as a primary practice, one should also probably have a sitting meditation thing going... However when you are doing it, it is primary!


It's light, it is playful, it is the cosmic joke!

What works for you may not work for all beings. That's why there are so many religions, sects, cults, techniques, groups, and what not... Different strokes for different folks.

[BlackBillBlake]

On this Earth at present are many Avataras of the Mother, the Shakti. These are worthy of worship. Ordinary people of whatever sex can't really be considered as ideal objects of worship for many reasons.They are imperfect, their consciousness is immersed in illusion, they may even be actively bad in many ways. A man or a woman may be so far from the consciousness of God that to regard them as Divine beings could be very misleading, even dangerous.


It is true that in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says that the seer sees God in all beings. That is true, but few are at that stage of realization. And in that stage, perhaps the imperfections would be seen simultaneously with the Divine.

The thing is that the Divine Mother is within your own heart. Although She appears in forms in this world of the manifestation, She is purely a spiritual being.

[Jedi]

To Black Bill Blake,

I agree with what you say, but you see these rules are there for a reason.

For example,

If I look at my wife (in the future) as the danalaxmi of my house and look at my mother as the divine mother, Guru who is laxmi and my sister as also another form of laxmi, then I will start seeing not my wife, not my mother, not my sister, but a people who represent Goddess laxmi in my house. This will make me feel humble and respect them. This will make me patient and I will not be prone to starting an arguments with them . In other words, I will be thinking more about my wife (of the future)!, than myself while talking to her (in the future).

The same thing applies to women, when they are told their husbands are their greatest Gurus.

[BlackBillBlake]

To Black Bill Blake,

I agree with what you say, but you see these rules are there for a reason.

For example,

If I look at my wife (in the future) as the danalaxmi of my house and look at my mother as the divine mother, Guru who is laxmi and my sister as also another form of laxmi, then I will start seeing not my wife, not my mother, not my sister, but a people who represent Goddess laxmi in my house. This will make me feel humble and respect them. This will make me patient and I will not be prone to starting an arguments with them . In other words, I will be thinking more about my wife (of the future)!, than myself while talking to her (in the future).

The same thing applies to women, when they are told their husbands are their greatest Gurus.
I agree that we should try to see God in everyone. I feel that perhaps the term 'worship' though may be misleading.
I worry that some may end up worshiping the human personality rather than the Divine behind that personality. So I feel that only the Avatar or Guru should be worshiped in the true sense.
Sri Ramakrishna was once asked by the then young Vivekananda about doing 'sahhana with women'. Ramakrishna said it is a dangerous path, as one is sure to be dragged down to the ordinary, sensual level. Whan a man has done sadhana, and gained realization, only then can he safely associate with women and not get dragged down. Then, and only then can all women be sen as manifestations of the Mother.
But really, all that exists is Her!!

[Bhaskar]

I agree with Jedis explanation totally. You see, we are all avatars, we are all manifestations of brahman, only difference is some of us dont realise this, others do.

It is a dicey thing, to worship others, but in almost all people there will certainly be some divine qualities, daivya sampatti, as listed in the Bhagavad Gita. If we can address these divine qualities and see the higher lord in everyone, then not only will we grow spiritually, but it will also uplift those around us.

Let every action be worship, think of each breath you draw as a flower offered at the feet of the Lord, think of every karmaphala as his prasad. Then the world is revealed to you as his glory alone and joy is everywhere.

[BlackBillBlake]

I agree with Jedis explanation totally. You see, we are all avatars, we are all manifestations of brahman, only difference is some of us dont realise this, others do.

.
I am not sure about this. In what sense are we all avatars? Everything that exists here is a manifestation of Brahman, but the word 'avatar' is usually used in a special sense, to denote one who has descended from above with full consciousness and knowledge, and not subject to the ordinary laws of karma and for a special, Divine purpose.
The avatar comes to bring knowledge and light from above; the avatar comes with full knowledge, and consciousness of the Divine, wheras we have to attain to this consciousness, we don't 'just have it'.
In fact, the avatar IS consciousness,bliss and knowledge.
All this is explained by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.

[Becknudefck]

this is all so confusing.

[Jedi]

this is all so confusing.You see that picture of a lady who is seated on a lotus flower in one of the Blackbillblake's posts?

She is God's girlfriend/wife and she is God in a feminine form, Her name is laxmi- Goddess of fortunes, luck , the divine mother of all.

She is there with God always and he is there with us in our hearts. Therefore, she is everywhere.

We are here trying to discuss her glory and we are trying to discuss,\ how to see her in all women. :)
Do you understand now ? Or are you still confused?

[GanjaPrince]

To shed light on the discussion of whether to see all form as the divine... I turn to realized being, Neem Karoli Baba, a cosmic jokester, a guru, a saint, hanuman some say, you, me, all... :)

"You should love everyone as God, and love each other. If you cannot love each other, you cannot achieve your goal." .....MAHARAJJI



SEE ALL WOMEN AS MOTHERS

[Bhaskar]

I am not sure about this. In what sense are we all avatars? Everything that exists here is a manifestation of Brahman, but the word 'avatar' is usually used in a special sense, to denote one who has descended from above with full consciousness and knowledge, and not subject to the ordinary laws of karma and for a special, Divine purpose.
The avatar comes to bring knowledge and light from above; the avatar comes with full knowledge, and consciousness of the Divine, wheras we have to attain to this consciousness, we don't 'just have it'.
In fact, the avatar IS consciousness,bliss and knowledge.
All this is explained by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.

Usually the term avatar is used in that sense only, but, in the scriptures we find descriptions of various kinds of avatars. What you described are poornavatars, or manifestation of the lord in his full glory. Also note that avatars like Lord Rama were not born with full realisation. Rama had to be taught the ful bramhajnana by his guru Vasishta before he realised brahman. That story and teaching is described by Valmiki in Yoga Vasishtha, a very beautiful text.

There are also other types of avatar, for example the nityavatar, under which category all the saints and sages fall. We are also avatars (Im not sure of the exact sanskrit name...There are some 6 or 7 categories, Ill look it up for you if anyone is interested)

[BlackBillBlake]

Usually the term avatar is used in that sense only, but, in the scriptures we find descriptions of various kinds of avatars. What you described are poornavatars, or manifestation of the lord in his full glory. Also note that avatars like Lord Rama were not born with full realisation. Rama had to be taught the ful bramhajnana by his guru Vasishta before he realised brahman. That story and teaching is described by Valmiki in Yoga Vasishtha, a very beautiful text.

There are also other types of avatar, for example the nityavatar, under which category all the saints and sages fall. We are also avatars (Im not sure of the exact sanskrit name...There are some 6 or 7 categories, Ill look it up for you if anyone is interested)
Ok - in one sense we might be called avatara, but the great thing with the avatar is that they come to give us grace and realization - to award realization is quite impossible for the ordinary human being!
Sri Rama and others played just like human beings, so Rama, and Krishna himself accepted Gurus just to educate the people in general.
If we say there is no difference between the avatar and the ordinary person, then what is the point of the avatars descent?
The Divine - God, Shakti is in all beings, but that doesn't make them avatars.

[BlackBillBlake]

To shed light on the discussion of whether to see all form as the divine... I turn to realized being, Neem Karoli Baba, a cosmic jokester, a guru, a saint, hanuman some say, you, me, all... :)

"You should love everyone as God, and love each other. If you cannot love each other, you cannot achieve your goal." .....MAHARAJJI



SEE ALL WOMEN AS MOTHERSOne can indeed see all form as Divine, but that does not mean we are all avatars. As I pointed out in my previous reply to Bhaskar the avatar comes to bestow light and knowledge - the ordinary person is not able to do this.
This is not to say that the ordinary person does not have the Divine within them - it is precisely through the action of such beings as Avatars that we can unfold this hidden light, realize the Godhead concealed within - but this will not make us avatars.

One further point - although I don't accept that all women should be worshiped as avatars of the Divine Mother, I do think they should be treated with respect, as should all beings.

[GanjaPrince]

There are several different levels of reality, my friend, on one there are differences, man, woman, divine, human, up and down, love and hate, but as you go deeper, you see only love, you see the unity, you see that avatar is all, all is avatar.

There is no descent, the avatar was always here, it is lila, play, like shiva dancing, Krishna playing that flute. Does that mean we can deny that there are realized beings, and divinity descended onto this plane? No, that is so. Yet you see, it is a paradox to the rational mind, if you try to put all this into the rational mind, you are gonna get an error message, it's message is directed to the heart which sees and knows and experiences, you can read all the books but to know left from right on the divine highway you have to have mystical experience! This is this and that is that, and there is no deveation from these concepts of reality... it is not so straight and narrow, yes there are laws, but these laws are written in endless streams of infinite love and super intelligent energy that can not be reduced to mear words! God is playful that's why you can worship God in any form you want, and if it is done in total faith, god will take that form, whatever it may be, even the yoni, the vagina, and you will dance with god, lover and beloved, until they merge as one!

[BlackBillBlake]

There are several different levels of reality, my friend, on one there are differences, man, woman, divine, human, up and down, love and hate, but as you go deeper, you see only love, you see the unity, you see that avatar is all, all is avatar.

There is no descent, the avatar was always here, it is lila, play, like shiva dancing, Krishna playing that flute. Does that mean we can deny that there are realized beings, and divinity descended onto this plane? No, that is so. Yet you see, it is a paradox to the rational mind, if you try to put all this into the rational mind, you are gonna get an error message, it's message is directed to the heart which sees and knows and experiences, you can read all the books but to know left from right on the divine highway you have to have mystical experience! This is this and that is that, and there is no deveation from these concepts of reality... it is not so straight and narrow, yes there are laws, but these laws are written in endless streams of infinite love and super intelligent energy that can not be reduced to mear words! God is playful that's why you can worship God in any form you want, and if it is done in total faith, god will take that form, whatever it may be, even the yoni, the vagina, and you will dance with god, lover and beloved, until they merge as one!
I am aware that there are many levels of reality, and also many levels of illusion.
I don't suggest for one moment that true knowledge, vijnana, gnosis, whatever name you like, can be either fully expressed or known by the ordinary, rational mind, or the discursive intellect.
You say God or the Divine is ever present, and that is true. But the vast majority of beings here in this world do not see this, or have any realization of the Divine prescence. Hence, the need for the Avatar. In Vedantic philosophy, Sri Krishna is generally accepted as such an Avatar, and Krishna says He descends. Only a fool would take this literally, and think of this descent in terms of physical spatial dimensions.
The descent is from a higher plane of being, beyond the mind and sense.
You speak of mystical experience, and I assume you are one who has had such ?- and I agree in effect, but there are experiences and experiences - effectually, there is no end to knowledge and realization , because God is infinite. To become too attatched to a particular experience, or a particular form of experience can be a mistake -
I am not sure exactly what you mean by 'worshiping the yoni' - do you mean on a mental level, or are you talking here about some form of sexual practices?
You can worship any form you want, but the difficulty here is that that of finding a form adequate to fully express the infinite Godhead in form. That is why God comes in particular forms of Avatars. So we can see what are Divine forms.

[Bhaskar]

Again Bill, you failed to see my point. By using the word avatar you still refer to only the poornavatar. Taken in that sense all you say is right. However in the scriptures all creation is one or the other kind of avatar.

The word means that which has descended. In that sense we are definitely all avatars, since we have lost touch with our higher Self and are confined to the lower egocentric finite self. Thus spiritually we have fallen, or descended and so we are avatars. Of course if the meaning you choose to apply to the term be taken then we have no point to disagree on.

[BlackBillBlake]

Again Bill, you failed to see my point. By using the word avatar you still refer to only the poornavatar. Taken in that sense all you say is right. However in the scriptures all creation is one or the other kind of avatar.

The word means that which has descended. In that sense we are definitely all avatars, since we have lost touch with our higher Self and are confined to the lower egocentric finite self. Thus spiritually we have fallen, or descended and so we are avatars. Of course if the meaning you choose to apply to the term be taken then we have no point to disagree on.
Bhaskar, in one sense perhaps you are right, but I would be very interested to know the exact passages and in what texts they occur. I know we've disagreed before over other matters in this connection, but really I would like to know where this idea that all are Avatars comes from.

Hari Om.

[Bhaskar]

I am unsure of the text in which the types of avatars are enumerated, though it was talked about by various acharyas in discourses on Bhagavatam and on Bhagavad Geeta. This is a listing as I made during my notes of a bhagavatam series I attended. It may be incomplete.

1. Poornavatar - Such a manifestation is of the Lord in his enire glory. He has control over all powers of nature, the elements, time, etc. He is omniscient, omniprescent and has all divine virtues. An example of such an avatar is Sri Krishna.

2. Leelavatars - These are avatars taken for the specific correction of a rise in adharma. They are born in human form, live through infancy, childhood and the other stages of human life in the same way, but they lead model lives and they bring about a reform in the world, bringing a rise in dharma and destruction of forces that disrpt dharma. Prime example of this is Lord Rama.

3. Mahatmyavatar - The mahatmyavatar is a sudden manifestation of the Lord for a very specific purpose, like when a true devotee is in urgent need of succour. The favourite example is that of the narasimha avatar, when the great bhakta Prahlada was saved from his demon father's persecution by the emergence of Narasimha from a pillar, to destroy Hiranyakashyapa.

4. Yugavatar - In every age, every yuga, there is a great avatar sent to bring about spiritual development and to give lasting spiritual guidance for those who walk the path. Examples Sri Adishankaracharya, Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ, etc

5. Vibhuti avatar - Such manifestations are usually not in living form, more as a sudden unexplained occuring, of great beauty and magnificence. You may find many examples even in your daily life if you look closely enough.

6. Nityavatar - These are the rishies, saints, yogis, gurus and great realised masters of every generation. There are always enough of these to provide guidance and encouragement to those on the spiritual path.

7. Amsavatar - These are the day to day manifestations of the Lord, in the form of animals, birds, humans etc. The One becomes the Many. Example, all of us.

This is the listing as I know it, there may be more or other classifications available along the same lines.

[BlackBillBlake]

Bhaskar - I am not sure you're correct. I checked the Bhagavata and it mentions the following as kind of Avataras:


1 - Purusha Avatara
2 - Lila Avatara
3 - Guna Avatara
4 - Manvantara Avatara
5 - Yuga Avatara
6 - Shaktyavesha Avatara

Also, an article at www.dlhsq.org/religions/avatara.htm#kinds (http://www.dlhsq.org/religions/avatara.htm#kinds)

suggests that the Amsavatara is a term for a partial incarnation, not the ordinary, or even realized soul. Here is a brief quote:

Difference Between a Jivanmukta and an Avatara

A simple Jivanmukta is like a star that glitters at night. He throws a little light only. Somehow or the other, he has crossed to the other shore through some Tapas and Sadhana. He cannot elevate a large number of people. Just as the waters of a small spring can quench the thirst of a few pilgrims only, so also, this Kevala-jnani can bring peace to a few persons only. Whereas, an Avatara is a mighty person. He is like a big Manasarovar lake. He removes the veil of ignorance of thousands of men and women, and takes them to the land of eternal rest, bliss and sublime.

The Avataras are one with the Supreme. They are not parts like the individual souls. Avataras or Incarnations are rays of the Lord. When the work of Loka-sangraha is over, they disappear from the world.

Kinds of Avataras

Avataras are of various kinds. There are Purna-avataras, with full Kalas or rays. There are Amsa-avataras or partial incarnations. There are Lila-avataras.

Lord Krishna was a Purna-avatara. Sri Sankaracharya was an Amsa-avatara. Matsya, Kurma, Varaha, Narasimha, Vamana, Rama and others were Lila-avataras.

Krishna and Rama were the Avataras of Lord Vishnu. Dakshinamurthy was an incarnation of Lord Siva. Dattatreya was the Avatara of the Trimurtis—Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are three aspects of God. Brahma is the creative aspect; Vishnu is the preservative aspect; and Siva is the destructive aspect. There is no polytheism in the Hindu religion. Siva, Vishnu, Brahma and Sakti are different aspects of the one Lord.(end quote).



Maybe it is just that we are looking at different texts or commentaries. But I think overall that to use the term Avatara for the ordinary person, even the realized is a mistake, and could be misleading.

[Bhaskar]

Different texts, different commentaries... I dont insist on what I said in any way.

I do agree with you on the point that the term isnt ordinarily used in the sense I meant, even though the word meaning can very definitely be interpreted in that sense. Either way I dont thik it matters too much and we oughtnt spend too much of our energies on such intellectual debate. That which we seek is far beyond words and the sights must always be set there.

May bhagawan fill your heart with his Grace.

Hari Om

[BlackBillBlake]

Different texts, different commentaries... I dont insist on what I said in any way.

I do agree with you on the point that the term isnt ordinarily used in the sense I meant, even though the word meaning can very definitely be interpreted in that sense. Either way I dont thik it matters too much and we oughtnt spend too much of our energies on such intellectual debate. That which we seek is far beyond words and the sights must always be set there.

May bhagawan fill your heart with his Grace.

Hari Om
I agree - what do details matter? Thanks for the good wishes!

Jai Ma!

[Hari]

It is dangerous to worship ordinary personalities
and in essence people are always doing that, so the guru or avatar(bhagavan) comes so that we see magnanimous qualities in him, and easily desist from worshipping inferior personalities, which is a downfall itself; however sat-chit -ananda refers also to the spirit of everyone. Those are the three qualities of the self, eternity(or beingness) conciousness and bliss.

As long as we cannot see past personalities we
are not focusing on the real self.

[BlackBillBlake]

It is dangerous to worship ordinary personalities
and in essence people are always doing that, so the guru or avatar(bhagavan) comes so that we see magnanimous qualities in him, and easily desist from worshipping inferior personalities, which is a downfall itself; .
Thanks for that Hari - thats exactly the point I was trying to make!

Love.

[GanjaPrince]

"Many people excuse their own faults but judge other persons harshly. We should reverse this attitude by excusing others' shortcomings and by harshly examining our own.

Sometimes it is necessary to analyze other people; in that case the important thing to remember is to keep the mind unprejudiced. An unbiased mind is like a clear mirror, held steady, not oscillating with hasty judgments. Any person reflected within the mirror will present and undistorted image.

Learn to see God in all persons, of whatever race or creed. You will know what divine love is when you begin to feel your oneness with every human being, not before. In mutual service we forget the little self, and glimpse the one measureless Self, the Spirit that unifies all men."


Yoga (http://www.ramdasstapes.org/jesus%20christ.htm)nanda (http://www.ramdasstapes.org/beings%20yogananada.htm)

[Jedi]

"Many people excuse their own faults but judge other persons harshly. We should reverse this attitude by excusing others' shortcomings and by harshly examining our own.

Sometimes it is necessary to analyze other people; in that case the important thing to remember is to keep the mind unprejudiced. An unbiased mind is like a clear mirror, held steady, not oscillating with hasty judgments. Any person reflected within the mirror will present and undistorted image.

Learn to see God in all persons, of whatever race or creed. You will know what divine love is when you begin to feel your oneness with every human being, not before. In mutual service we forget the little self, and glimpse the one measureless Self, the Spirit that unifies all men."


Yoga (http://www.ramdasstapes.org/jesus%20christ.htm)nanda (http://www.ramdasstapes.org/beings%20yogananada.htm)
I just don't understand, if I can excuse other's short comings then please tell me why I have to treat myself so harshly... why can't I treat myself the same way I treat others?

Because I found myself at peace when I didn't mind about other's short comings and also when I lost my temper sometimes I tried to understood my behavior in such a situation and forgave myself for it later.

This way I had a peaceful mind, I say this because when I saw faults of others I saw my ego build like a big mountain and when I treated myself harshly there was a great sense of misery in my life. I saw this life as if it is
useless , meaningless, which was very depressing and pessimistic...

So I just don't understand why swamis today say that we have to treat ourselves so harshly, please clear this up for me if you can... I will appreciate it.

[BlackBillBlake]

I just don't understand, if I can excuse other's short comings then please tell me why I have to treat myself so harshly... why can't I treat myself the same way I treat others?

Because I found myself at peace when I didn't mind about other's short comings and also when I lost my temper sometimes I tried to understood my behavior in such a situation and forgave myself for it later.

This way I had a peaceful mind, I say this because when I saw faults of others I saw my ego build like a big mountain and when I treated myself harshly there was a great sense of misery in my life. I saw this life as if it is
useless , meaningless, which was very depressing and pessimistic...

So I just don't understand why swamis today say that we have to treat ourselves so harshly, please clear this up for me if you can... I will appreciate it.
Dear Jedi,
I think that the reason is this - it is easier to criricize others, to lay the blame for things going wrong on others ect. than to see oneself, and where one's own faults and weaknesses lie. It is better always to seek the fault in oneself or one's own attitudes first. But I agree, one should not judge oneslf too harshly - one must have compassion for all, including onself. Here is another quote from Yogananda (taken from Man's Eternal Quest)

"Don't think of yourself as a sinner. You are a child of the Heavenly Father. No matter if you are the greatest sinner, forget it! If you have made up your mind to be good then you are no longer a sinner. 'Even an evildoer who turns away from all else to worship Me exclusively may be counted amongst the good, because of his righteous resolve. He will fast become a virtuous man and obtain unending peace. Tell all, O Arjuna, that My devotee never perishes' (bhagavad gita IX:30-31) Start with a clean slate and say 'I have always been good; I was only dreaming that I was bad' It is true - evil is a nightmare that does not belong to the soul"

Om Shanti!

[GanjaPrince]

Yes have compassion and love for yourself, and the physical form and ego you have be given total...



Yet you can do this while being honest about your own faults, thus by seeing all your colorful fuzz balls (faults) that you have tea with, you can start to become free of them. Being aware of them, and transending them through breaking from your seperation into the unity that exists, to the oneness, to the love!


Because when you have all that compassion, love and forgivness for yourself, your "faults" are not longer demons that need be slayed, but fuzz balls you have tea with, understand, and let them go into the distance, let them fall as they fall.

You can't rip the skin of the snake, it sheds as it does, as with the harmony of the situation.