Reflections; whats in a label?

[Anima_Mercury]

Hello everyone! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Well, I have some gay friends and also friends who openly tell me they are attracted to the same sex but never actually dared to have a relationship. I think that all of us (women and men) have a certain attraction to the same sex. I've been told that we've a "side" which accepts bi sexuality... it's like all of us cannot help at least 1 time in our lives to be attracted by the same sex.

I've read all the definitions Sam posted and... wow, there so many "names" and labels. Perhaps names shouldn't be as important as having an open mind.
I think parents (esp in our parent's generation) have been marked by some pseudo "morality" that religion and society impossed by just saying the way we should be. And so customs, idiosyncrasy and religion have persecuted and finger pointed every person who didn't gather "men behaviour" or "women behaviour".

Every time a baby is born we give them cloths in blue and pink colours. Little girls must play with dolls and tea sets, and little boys must play with balls and trucks. Now why should be that way? We're already putting a label since kids are born.
With those teachings men are not allowed to "cry" cause it will make them less men or loose manhood/virility. And women cannot look to other women cause it will make her loose femininity or will turn her into a sl*t. Or women cannot be mechanics cause that's men stuff. Or men cannot be a designer cause that's for gays.

The thing about label (ing) people is something we should review as well. But I guess that the most important thing is that parents should be open minded. Always supporting their children's decisions and "being" with them no matter what.

Sexuality is a very personal matter. And it's ok whatever makes YOU feel good cause it's what YOU like.


♥ Love ♥

V

[Samhain]

I agree we are so much more than labels, the only reason I think that in this case they are important is that so many people haven't got any idea about the difference between a cross dresser and a transexual, let alone a transexual or a transgender and how many of us can talk about the differences between gender and sexuality.
so its almost like we need to start with a label, this person is transexual, so you know what some of their needs and wishes will and won't be and as you get to know a person more, being a transexual is an aspect of them, very important, but still an aspect.
let me put it this way, when we first met someone, we see them in terms of labels, we can't help ourselves, tall, short, man, woman, attractive, all different labels, some of which we would impose and other people would differ some which are pretty universal, so one day you met someone and you call this person 'he'.
this person says 'please call me 'she' because I am a transexual'
as you become friends the person becaomes a person to you, yes they are transexual, but to be honest thats about as noticeable as the fact that their eyes are blue.
Unless we start with the label, we never know really what the persons wishes are, its knowing when to go beyond that.
thats how I see it anyway!
S

[Anima_Mercury]

Yes, you've got a point there too! I guess labels are a way to know what we like and to identify ourselves... however as you said, a person is beyond the looks and his/her sexual condition, that is just an aspect.


♥ Love ♥

V

[honeyhannah]

I think that if there were no labels, a lot of people would never understand anyone who's different from them. I know that sounds odd, but I think that's true.

At the same time, I know there are people that try to comply with a certain label, and over interpret what a label is, and get confused by labeling themselves into a corner.

Usually younger ''outcasts"; if they're not trying to conform, they are trying to fit into the label of what people call them, a bit too much, and limit themselves in that way. But I think that comes with growing up and finding your identity. Unfortunately for some people, society somewhat forces them to cling to their 'labels' for life.

[Samhain]

labels can be bad as well if we are prejudice to groups of people who we see under certain labels.
because quite often people give someone a label with negative conatationsand that person is kind of brandished with that.
I'm sure we can all think of examples
S

[erzebet1961]

I never put a label on myself..Im just me..that ENOUGH for me to deal with !!

[TreeFiddy]

Jesus this is a tough poll...I feel kinda weird voting for either one...


I voted for yes only because I restlessly label myself, I guess in an attempt to know what I'm after so I can start trying to get it into my life. I need focus or else I get nowhere. But I don't limit myself to my labels, in fact part of the reason I "label" myself is because its good for reflecting on how I've changed over time, the way I've drifted in and out of certain ways of defining who I am.

[Samhain]

I never put a label on myself..Im just me..that ENOUGH for me to deal with !!
do you think that by saying we are not something, like if a person says they are not gay or not transexual, isn't the act of 'not being' a label its self?
S

[honeyhannah]

Good points all around... to the latter, as in people saying they are just confused, they don't even know who they are, what to call themselves...

for instance, some people base the entirety of their lives on being a Christian, and state that to anyone they can at all times, and not to be judgemental, but for some people labels are extremely important.

And I also get what you've said Erzebet, I can relate to that as well as treefiddy's statement.

[Samhain]

Good points all around... to the latter, as in people saying they are just confused, they don't even know who they are, what to call themselves...

for instance, some people base the entirety of their lives on being a Christian, and state that to anyone they can at all times, and not to be judgemental, but for some people labels are extremely important.

And I also get what you've said Erzebet, I can relate to that as well as treefiddy's statement.
I wasn't talking about being confused, more like if a person says they are deinatly not something, isn't that a label in its own right?
S

[honeyhannah]

I'm not sure, maybe that's over my head... maybe I should post when I am sober... haha. :)

[Samhain]

I'm not sure, maybe that's over my head... maybe I should post when I am sober... haha. :)
are you saying that you will answer this when your wearing a different label to now?!
S

[Anima_Mercury]

Hahaha :) this is comic.


♥ Love ♥

V

[erzebet1961]

I am sorry but I see nothing comic about someones feelings..Miss Hannah is a sweet lady..and I happen to care about her feelings verry much

[Anima_Mercury]

I am sorry but I see nothing comic about someones feelings..Miss Hannah is a sweet lady..and I happen to care about her feelings verry much
Verry well G! :p But I meant how S. led the topic...


♥ Love ♥


V

[Starsrainbow]

Hmm labeled or Not

Well, at first....thinks not
But then.....if I call myself related as say a 'hippy'.....there for I am 'labeling
Thus puts me 'aside' from others?

I think we label our selves all the time.....such as clothes, cars....even political an also religion or church
Thinks that might be where the 'titles' come into play.....

Not to mention our 'cultures' .....we choose to relate to
It's a 'think tank'.....

I'll end it with this note.....once we start questioning 'are we labeling'
Are we becoming more 'unlabeled' so to speak?

Don't you thinks :)
We might be seeing as a 'whole' an not as 'pieces'

[Samhain]

Hmm labeled or Not

Well, at first....thinks not
But then.....if I call myself related as say a 'hippy'.....there for I am 'labeling
Thus puts me 'aside' from others?

I think we label our selves all the time.....such as clothes, cars....even political an also religion or church
Thinks that might be where the 'titles' come into play.....

Not to mention our 'cultures' .....we choose to relate to
It's a 'think tank'.....

I'll end it with this note.....once we start questioning 'are we labeling'
Are we becoming more 'unlabeled' so to speak?

Don't you thinks :)
We might be seeing as a 'whole' an not as 'pieces'
well we all have more than one label, so the pieces make up the whole do they not?
S

[clementinexo]

fuck labels.

[Samhain]

fuck labels.
LoL don't feel you need to hold back, say what you think (joke)
S

[mynameiskc]

i think labels are kinda handy so long as you aren't clinging to them to the death and not understanding that a label ONLY relates to the simplest form of understanding someoen you don't know well. no one REALLY fits a label once you get to know them better.

[Samhain]

i think labels are kinda handy so long as you aren't clinging to them to the death and not understanding that a label ONLY relates to the simplest form of understanding someoen you don't know well. no one REALLY fits a label once you get to know them better.
Ok so kinda starting with one, but always knowing its just the first step along a path?
S

[Snowdancer]

I have attempted to write here a few times but this is a subject that I just can't work out.

On the one hand I hate the limitations that lables put upon us but conversly, I realize that they are necessary as means of communication. If I were to type to you that I was at a party Friday night that was comprised of four frinds & myself. When we got tired. The host went to bed with his partner, another guy slept on the floor, I ended up sharing the couch with the other person as we slept.
I am still using a label or two but I haven't made as acurate of a statement nor as effective as if I said...
I was at a party Friday at the apartment of my gay friend, his partner went to bed early. He, our trans male friend, our trans female friend & I partied & when it ended he joined his partner, the transguy slept on the floor & I shared the couch with my trans sister..... A lot more meaning, right?

[Samhain]

I have attempted to write here a few times but this is a subject that I just can't work out.

On the one hand I hate the limitations that lables put upon us but conversly, I realize that they are necessary as means of communication. If I were to type to you that I was at a party Friday night that was comprised of four frinds & myself. When we got tired. The host went to bed with his partner, another guy slept on the floor, I ended up sharing the couch with the other person as we slept.
I am still using a label or two but I haven't made as acurate of a statement nor as effective as if I said...
I was at a party Friday at the apartment of my gay friend, his partner went to bed early. He, our trans male friend, our trans female friend & I partied & when it ended he joined his partner, the transguy slept on the floor & I shared the couch with my trans sister..... A lot more meaning, right?
I'm wondering if your example needed more meaning, do we need to know ones gay and ones a trans male, is in this example '4 people' good enough?

now if it was a party for transexuals and there friends, probably just saying come to a party wouldn't be good enough, for the comfort and safety of all involued
S

[Sunburst]

Labels often simplify things, so we can find the basic traits of others and figure out who we identify with, who might be going through the same stuff we are, who feels how about certain topics. But when we let labels get in the way and close off our minds to other possibilities (ie, one I get a lot, "Hey you can't say he's hot! You're a lesbian! You're not allowed, are you?"), that's when they hinder us and get in the way. Labels are great for the basics, but you can't let it make decisions for you.

[Karissa_SC]

Labels are necessary for communication. Where they become problematic is when used for identification and evaluation, especially of your Self.

I was a philosophy major in college, so get used to this sort of thing<g>:

As Aristotle put it, "A distinction in analysis is not a separation in fact". We can use as many little cubbyholes as we like, but the world exists as a gestalt and pretty much ignores our categorizations.

[Samhain]

I'm thinking I should have added another poll option, just yes or no seems to balck and white for this subject.
(note I wasn't the author of the thread but I didadd the poll)
S

[SleepJiva]

I'm not a great fan of labels. I see them as a "sometime necessary evil". I think one of the major problems with them is that in the case of transfolk they just help to re-enforce the mainly western concept of the gender binary.

As long as you view male and female as forever distinct and apart, you then have to start attaching labels to all and sundry to determine whereabouts they fall in relation to the two genders. Unfortunately, most transsexuals actually help to re-enforce this by wanting to transition from one to the other, without really considering the possibility of living outside of the gender norms. It can also cause major problems for those that don't pass as their chosen gender.

If we did away with the concept of the gender binary however, all these issues would cease to exist. I doubt we will though, more's the pity!

[Samhain]

I'm not a great fan of labels. I see them as a "sometime necessary evil". I think one of the major problems with them is that in the case of transfolk they just help to re-enforce the mainly western concept of the gender binary.

As long as you view male and female as forever distinct and apart, you then have to start attaching labels to all and sundry to determine whereabouts they fall in relation to the two genders. Unfortunately, most transsexuals actually help to re-enforce this by wanting to transition from one to the other, without really considering the possibility of living outside of the gender norms. It can also cause major problems for those that don't pass as their chosen gender.

If we did away with the concept of the gender binary however, all these issues would cease to exist. I doubt we will though, more's the pity!
excellent point!
S