pansexual

[MikeE]

From the local student newspaper:

".. (student) senators passed a resolution in December stating that the policy discriminates against lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, queer, questioning and pansexual people by banning them from openly joinin the armed forces."

OK, what is the difference between "pansexual" and "bisexual"?

[amp7325]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexual


From what I've read, it basically means that the person has the ability to love someone romantically and/or sexually, no matter what their gender is.

[MikeE]

Thanks

[SageDreamer]

"Pansexual" almost sounds like anything goes.

"Bisexual" just means both men and women.

[SelfControl]

"Pansexual" almost sounds like anything goes.

"Bisexual" just means both men and women.
So basically the same thing? Or does pansexuality involve eunuchs, animals, furniture, etc.? I've never met anyone who claimed to be pansexual who wasn't at least a bit of a poser.

[CrucifiedDreams]

Can someone explain to me the difference between a bisexual person and a pansexual person?

I looked up the definitions but it seems to be the same thing to me.

[Samhain]

Can someone explain to me the difference between a bisexual person and a pansexual person?

I looked up the definitions but it seems to be the same thing to me.
Pansexuality (sometimes referred to as omnisexuality) is a sexual orientation characterized by a potential aesthetic attraction, romantic love and/or sexual desire for anybody, including people who do not fit into the gender binary of male/female implied by bisexual attraction. Pansexuality is sometimes described as the capacity to love a person romantically irrespective of gender. Some pansexuals also assert that gender and sex are meaningless to them.

Pansexuals may be attracted to various different forms of romance, and may be aroused by various different acts of sex on a carnal level. It has been stated that pansexuality refers not to a metaphysical order of attraction to other human beings, but rather a more carnal attraction to sexual acts irrespective of gender. Some suggest that pansexuality is more accurately described by its adepts: human- or person-oriented. Despite a pansexual's fluid sexuality, some may have a preference. A pansexual may be attracted to all genders and sexes, but have a preference, (for example) for transsexual men, other pansexuals, masculine lesbians, intersexed people, etc.

Pansexual Sex

Many people who identify as pansexual may associate with people of all sexual orientations, but are not necessarily interested in sex with people of all sexes or genders. They may be comfortable with public displays of affection (PDAs) or semi-public sexual activity which is not confined to their own sexual orientation.
Pansexuals usually consider any sexual act acceptable as long as it is consensual. For some pansexuals, biological sex is a secondary factor, something that will be discovered if and when sexual interaction takes place.

[CrucifiedDreams]

Thanks Sam. :)

[coco]

All queers need to take a reality check. YOU WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT KIDS IN THE UK! Capiche??
It is sick that you think it is ok to stick your di*k up another man's ass. Homophobia is a term invented by queers for right minded, clean living people, when they refuse to accept that homosexuality has a place in society. It is wrong, dysfunctional, and sick. I believe that all queers, and that is what you are, need to have treatment for their condition. You are not born gay - it is a sickness you develop in your teens when the brain gets confused and issues the wrong signals, during the transformation from childhood to adulthood.

Homosexuality needs to be stamped out. It does does not have any place in a christian society. If you feel your rights are oppressed because of this, then you need to leave the UK and go live in San Francisco, where you can get stoned and fudgepack all you want. Remember - IT IS NOT OK TO STICK YOUR DIC* UP A MANS ASS! PERIOD!

[LuckyStripe]

Wow.

[Samhain]

Wow.
wow as in "i've just learnt something new?"
S

[LuckyStripe]

I just pm'd you. Its very weird how close that SEEMS to fit to me but I still feel im missing SOMETHING.

[LuckyStripe]

So ... I kinda get the feeling that all or MOST pansexuals are bi but not all bisexuals are pansexuals? correct?

and on the first... is it all or most? (or am i totally off?)

[Samhain]

So ... I kinda get the feeling that all or MOST pansexuals are bi but not all bisexuals are pansexuals? correct?

and on the first... is it all or most? (or am i totally off?)
I think its a different sexual attraction than straight gay or bi
S

[Bishie lover]

Yep, that's pretty much me! XD

[AreYouExperienced]

"Pit-Pat! A magical, pansexual, non-threatening spokesthing!" - Mr. Show

http://clonecone.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/Pit%20Pat-780823.jpg

[LuckyStripe]

I think its a different sexual attraction than straight gay or bi
S

I know its different but in some (not all) ways it hang a bell at me. but im failing to understand EXACTLY how its different then bi.

Bi is attracted to both... pan.- doenst care about gender?

Um, I dont care about gender.. dont see it. Does that make me pan, bi or both?

[Samhain]

I know its different but in some (not all) ways it hang a bell at me. but im failing to understand EXACTLY how its different then bi.

Bi is attracted to both... pan.- doenst care about gender?

Um, I dont care about gender.. dont see it. Does that make me pan, bi or both?
you know I was thinking about this and i suppose out of all of them being bi is the closest related to this and thats why its in this forum.
Pans I believe get turned on by a person first, the charater the essense and everything else including that persons sex and what they look like comes second.
it sounds evolued to me, maybe what we'll all be like in the future, no judgements just seeing the person as they really are inside.
so in other words if you have a small dick or a big nose or no tits but are lovable, then a pan would likly be attracted to you, because its not about appearence
S

[Samhain]

so in other words if you have a small dick or a big nose or no tits
and i'm not saying any of those things are bad or wrong or shameful for one moment just trying to give an example how sometimes we judge people harshly
S

[LuckyStripe]

and i'm not saying any of those things are bad or wrong or shameful for one moment just trying to give an example how sometimes we judge people harshly
S

I was gonna say, cause my nose is slightly um..pronounced. heh.

And we all have our flaws, too large, too skinny, too this, too that... its about not really seeing those things first but personality and the inner being of the person above and beyond those things.

[Samhain]

I was gonna say, cause my nose is slightly um..pronounced. heh.

And we all have our flaws, too large, too skinny, too this, too that... its about not really seeing those things first but personality and the inner being of the person above and beyond those things.
and by the same token if someone had a perfect nose, it wouuld be about seeing beyound that as well, is this starting to make a bit more sense?
S

[LuckyStripe]

and by the same token if someone had a perfect nose, it wouuld be about seeing beyound that as well, is this starting to make a bit more sense?
S

It is.

However, not crystal clear. For me, Ive known for years and years that I could be with any person regardless of sex. I dont judge people by typical standards and I believe that is why Im like that. If I like the thing I want to lick... (in a total non sexual way, okay not totally... but yeah, I mean licking the soul)..... then that's what I wanna lick... heh :D

I always thought that WAS what bisexual was. Then I read that pansexual thing and it's what I always THOUGHT bisexual was.

No..wait... light bulb. Bisexual is attracted to both SEXES...pan isnt worried about the sex and falls in love with spirit/essance of the person.

Got it.

Okay, Im pansexual then. 100 percent sure.

As my first post (ignitial reaction) in this thread said "WOW" :D

[PinkAime]

I consider myself 100% pansexual & some people find it gross or weird & try to lecture me about how wrong it is; not only am I attracted too both sexes, I'm also attracted too animals & transsexuals & hermaphradites. Anyone or anything really. It's either I love it or I'm turned on by it. Hell I'd probably get off on a plant, I've gotten off on a song once. I'm into every fetish & kink you can think of except for anything invovling bodily wastes. Beastility, Incest, S&M, just anything. Even inanimate objects. Some people find it extremely nausiating when I tell them about it. But I couldn't care less. I'm an animal & animals are sexual beings. If it makes me feel good then I want it. Or maybe I'm just selfish. Heh.

[PinkAime]

Actually I find old people & overweight people an extreme turn on. Weird much? Maybe.

[mrpwonder]

100% pansexual..i love this thread

[jackpot]

http://penfriends.informe.com

[Snowdancer]

Honestly I'm the only pansexual I know personally. I'm sure like sop many other things everyone has their own manifestation of the attraction.

I have been attracted to someone on any point in the gewnder spectrum. The big muscle kind of leather gay & bears with their body hair to extremely femme all girl girl. Butch lesbians, femme gays. Transpeople M2F or F2M.

All have got me going & have made it into the bed just as well.

I know its different but in some (not all) ways it hang a bell at me. but im failing to understand EXACTLY how its different then bi.

Bi is attracted to both... pan.- doenst care about gender?

Um, I dont care about gender.. dont see it. Does that make me pan, bi or both?

[pilgrimp]

Maybe pansexual includes your dog.

[BapBapuHa]

if you want to find sex friend like i do go here
http://adultfriendfinder.com/go/g822271-ppc enjoy it. :)

[whichaxe]

Pansexual.... great, another label.....

[kristian4o]

if you want to find sex friend and feel happy like i do go here


-->> http://adultfriendfinder.com/go/g822271-ppc


enjoy it. :)

[SorchaA]

Pansexual.... great, another label..... Yeah, not long come to the conclusion that I'm bi then this Pansexual come along to confuse me more. Will have to think about some more.http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/moresmilies/huh.gif

[MikeE]

So, it sounds like a Pan-sexual would be attracted to a Peter.

[wannasmoke?86]

I think everyone's a pansexual. Society just conditions us man. Free your preconceptions, free your sexuality.

Crazy enough to work.

[Drew_445]

Yeah, not long come to the conclusion that I'm bi then this Pansexual come along to confuse me more. Will have to think about some more.http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/moresmilies/huh.gif
if its so confusing, dump the labels! whats your name: thats who you are

[daveyjones1]

Looking through all the info on pansexuality... I've figured out that I'm not bi but pansexual. Hm. Well, just another label right? :)

[SelfControl]

Yeah, I still don't get the difference. How can you know that you love someone in a different way from someone else, unless you've somehow been them? I don't know that anyone thinks about sexual/platonic/personal/erotic/whateverish attraction with homosexual or heterosexual people. There's variety within the orientations, that's all.

[franzde]

^ yeah exactly, fuck these stupid pretentious labels, they don't mean shit, they're simply limiting the whole notion of sexual expression and fluidity. if you're a pan-sexual it essentially means you could fall in love with anyTHING simply because of its aesthetic or romantic value even if it does not conform to either conventional gender e.g male/female (bisexuality) and can comfortably branch out your sexual activity towards transsexuals, transvestites, and effeminate and masculine gays and lesbians.

so technically bisexuality is a sub category of pan-sexuality.

not to sound too facetious but i think a typical pan-sexual's philosophy is "a hole is a hole" and "anything can be beautiful".

hope this has more clearly defined pan-sexuality for those who were unsure of the definition.

cheers,

-franzde

[SelfControl]

That's the problem I have with it though; I've yet to encounter anyone who describes themself as "pansexual" who can't be defined just as easily as "bisexual". They don't like the idea that they're restricted to males and females, but in practice, none of them have actually admitted to being attracted to anything else.

[imhrd]

Hmmmmm I'm attracted to shemales (transgender) guess I'm pansexual maybe I should consider being attracted to hefemales then I would really be ????? oh well just a thought

[SorchaA]

^ yeah exactly, fuck these stupid pretentious labels, they don't mean shit, they're simply limiting the whole notion of sexual expression and fluidity. I'm a bisexual Trans girl with leaning twords pansexuality

these are just some of my labels that im aware of.

my question is how do you say that in one line without using labels?

as far as i know thats why we have labels so that people can explain stuff without using 100 word to do so.

the problem is people label other people without knowing the other person and mislabel them, and sometimes they do it to be mean and other time all they want is into your pants even though you'll say no a 100 times.

[Chainz]

Pansexuality (sometimes referred to as omnisexuality) is a sexual orientation characterized by a potential aesthetic attraction, romantic love and/or sexual desire for anybody, including people who do not fit into the gender binary of male/female implied by bisexual attraction. Pansexuality is sometimes described as the capacity to love a person romantically irrespective of gender. Some pansexuals also assert that gender and sex are meaningless to them.

Pansexuals may be attracted to various different forms of romance, and may be aroused by various different acts of sex on a carnal level. It has been stated that pansexuality refers not to a metaphysical order of attraction to other human beings, but rather a more carnal attraction to sexual acts irrespective of gender. Some suggest that pansexuality is more accurately described by its adepts: human- or person-oriented. Despite a pansexual's fluid sexuality, some may have a preference. A pansexual may be attracted to all genders and sexes, but have a preference, (for example) for transsexual men, other pansexuals, masculine lesbians, intersexed people, etc.

Pansexual Sex

Many people who identify as pansexual may associate with people of all sexual orientations, but are not necessarily interested in sex with people of all sexes or genders. They may be comfortable with public displays of affection (PDAs) or semi-public sexual activity which is not confined to their own sexual orientation.
Pansexuals usually consider any sexual act acceptable as long as it is consensual. For some pansexuals, biological sex is a secondary factor, something that will be discovered if and when sexual interaction takes place.

Thank you Sam. This sounds a great deal like it would partially define the attitudes of a great many Masters of BDSM (including myself) in that the gender of the individual submissive is unimportant. Indeed, it is the discipline and surrender of the fledgling that is of great significance. I do not consider myself bisexual, but omni sexual, in that if they are acceptable for training, I will take them to a deeper understanding that transcends the meanings of just sex, and coming for your partner. Gender to many of us, is irrelevant and has no bearing on the discipline in its' true nature, a more carnal connection.

~Chainz

[Chainz]

Thank you Sam. This sounds a great deal like it would partially define the attitudes of a great many Masters of BDSM (including myself) in that the gender of the individual submissive is unimportant. Indeed, it is the discipline and surrender of the fledgling that is of great significance. I do not consider myself bisexual, but omni sexual, in that if they are acceptable for training, I will take them to a deeper understanding that transcends the meanings of just sex, and coming for your partner. Gender to many of us, is irrelevant and has no bearing on the discipline in its' true nature.

[sushiosoyum]

Pansexual.... great, another label.....

pretty much.

nowadays its 'cool' 'hip' to be any of the following:

1) bisexual, especially if you're female!
2) vegan! go whole foods!
3) hipsters who look like they found their clothes but really they are very expensive
4) PANSEXUAL! Whooooa! Awesome!



:rolleyes:

[Kythlo]

I think I like the idea of Pansexuality, and I think I could be. My ex is trans FTM but that could be included in bisexual attraction as well, or as homosexual attraction even, which is what I most strongly identify as. I sometimes label myself pan curious. Either way I love the idea of going beyond bi into categories of gender that are neither male nor female

[MikeE]

"gender that is neither male or female"????
Assuming that you aren't talking about yeasts, that would require a strong space program.

[nitelite]

I guess I'm okay then, 'cause I'm Jewish.

Also, make sure that when you discriminate, that you don't discriminate. You mention how sick it is for a man to stick you know what up another's you know what. Ummm....why are females always ignored, even when their alternative sexuality is being criticized? So don't forget about the sick twisted minds of us female bisexuals. Don't we deserve your lauding as well? lol

[Kythlo]

"gender that is neither male or female"????
Assuming that you aren't talking about yeasts, that would require a strong space program.
Intersexed people are neither male nor female, some trans folk are neither male nor female

[Electric boy]

Apologies if i am going to muck stuff up but this pass quote realy pisses me off

All queers need to take a reality check. YOU WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT KIDS IN THE UK! Capiche??
It is sick that you think it is ok to stick your di*k up another man's ass. Homophobia is a term invented by queers for right minded, clean living people, when they refuse to accept that homosexuality has a place in society. It is wrong, dysfunctional, and sick. I believe that all queers, and that is what you are, need to have treatment for their condition. You are not born gay - it is a sickness you develop in your teens when the brain gets confused and issues the wrong signals, during the transformation from childhood to adulthood.

Homosexuality needs to be stamped out. It does does not have any place in a christian society. If you feel your rights are oppressed because of this, then you need to leave the UK and go live in San Francisco, where you can get stoned and fudgepack all you want. Remember - IT IS NOT OK TO STICK YOUR DIC* UP A MANS ASS! PERIOD!
- what a bastard - we are who we are and this guy should completely fuck off.

[hijoDdios]

Oh coco,
First off, you can't call something dysfunctional that's found in nature, and there are many habitual patterns in several species of homosexuality.
Secondly, there are more nerve endings at the rear end than the head of your cock, you're literally sitting on a goldmine, try it sometime. If being sick felt that good, i'd run out in the snow in underwear and pray to die of hypothermia.
Thirdly, we do not live in a Christian society. We live in an open society. It's funny how the human race is 160,000 years old, Christianity barely 2,000 and somehow that makes us all Christian society. That's 1% of human history. get off the high horse.

And if you feel oppressed because too many guys w/ a flare for style and girls with a pension for cropped hair think that they deserve to be treated like human beings, well then you need to leave the UK and go live in Hell where you can hate and curse all you want. I can assure you, that kind of attitude isn't the one your precious Jesus wants in his realm.

[thetrees]

pretty much.

nowadays its 'cool' 'hip' to be any of the following:

1) bisexual, especially if you're female!
2) vegan! go whole foods!
3) hipsters who look like they found their clothes but really they are very expensive
4) PANSEXUAL! Whooooa! Awesome!



:rolleyes:

see, posts like this really upset me. it's hard enough for those of us who truly are pan to be accepted in the straight community, let alone the gay community. i feel like i've been discriminated against in both, and it's so difficult to get people to take you seriously when the mindset is that it's a "trend." true, some people claim bisexuality to be hip, but those of us who truly identify/have identified for years are finding it more and more difficult to find a place in the gay community without being questioned by those who should understand what it's like to feel called out.

[Some call me Jim]

All queers need to take a reality check. YOU WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT KIDS IN THE UK! Capiche??
It is sick that you think it is ok to stick your di*k up another man's ass. Homophobia is a term invented by queers for right minded, clean living people, when they refuse to accept that homosexuality has a place in society. It is wrong, dysfunctional, and sick. I believe that all queers, and that is what you are, need to have treatment for their condition. You are not born gay - it is a sickness you develop in your teens when the brain gets confused and issues the wrong signals, during the transformation from childhood to adulthood.

Homosexuality needs to be stamped out. It does does not have any place in a christian society. If you feel your rights are oppressed because of this, then you need to leave the UK and go live in San Francisco, where you can get stoned and fudgepack all you want. Remember - IT IS NOT OK TO STICK YOUR DIC* UP A MANS ASS! PERIOD!

son. you have 0 posts.
are you trying to tell me you went to ALL the hassle of signing up to this site, then logging in, then locating this forum, then this thread,
and then once you were surrounded by non-hetero minds, you started getting angry about adoption rights -- a topic NO ONE INTRODUCED TO THIS THREAD.

if anyone needs their head examined, its fucking you.
if anyone shouldn't be allowed to have kids, IT'S FUCKING YOU :mad:


... plus, wrong? dysfunctional?
if all species of animals can be homosexual, then how exactly can it be wrong? where oh where do you people get this bullshit from?
its not a human phenomenon, and its certainly not a choice. people have a right to be happy with who they are, and shouldn't have to live in fear, and lie about everything that feels right to them, so people like you (and your kids tbh) won't abuse them on a daily basis out of sheer idiocy.

AND who the fuck are you to say what is and isn't wrong?
you're a fuckin Christian (i assume from your post)
you're a mindless drone. you do as the little book tells you to.

fuck off. you need shot.

[biguy71]

Regardless of how others view it, I see pansexuals as people who have no preference, while bisexuals lean more one way than the other. Bisexuals may swing back and forth, but pansexuals are people who are consistently and equally attracted to both sexes.

Any label only holds whatever meaning an individual attaches to it, though, and the same label will surely hold different meanings for different people, so I tend to avoid them whenever I can. I simply refer to myself as Steve. Then again, what is a name besides just another label. I'm sure there are some people who would even make assumptions about me based on my name.

[alpha_omega]

I'd disagree about a couple of things there, biguy. I think, if there were only two genders and nothing in between, "bisexual" and "pansexual" would mean the same thing. Since there are more than two genders (or sexes), the people who want to make this explicit in the label (yes, label! They're not so bad) looked for something other than "bi" (meaning "two"). It translates pretty easily: "two sexes/genders" -> "all sexes/genders".

I totally agree that labels will mean different things to different people, but I'd say it's in the best interests of communication to try to be on the same page as everyone else. Makes communication plain old more efficient.

[Invisible Soul]

I'd disagree about a couple of things there, biguy. I think, if there were only two genders and nothing in between, "bisexual" and "pansexual" would mean the same thing. Since there are more than two genders (or sexes), the people who want to make this explicit in the label (yes, label! They're not so bad) looked for something other than "bi" (meaning "two"). It translates pretty easily: "two sexes/genders" -> "all sexes/genders".

That is false. There are only 2 genders. A transperson is not some kind of "third gender". Well, maybe in the eyes of others, but in the eyes of the transperson themselves, they just see themselves as either male or female. Genderqueers though, dont see themselves as any specific gender. I suppose it depends on who's point of view you're looking at it from. I think most of the general public see transpeople (ones who feel they are born in the wrong body) as some kind of "third gender", or try to tie them to the gender associated with their birth sex. For the transperson themselves though, they just see themselves as male or female, simple as that. As for intersex people, they are biologically both sexes, but most of them identify as one gender only. I think the only people who really fit into a so-called "third gender" are genderqueer people. Intersex people, and people born in the wrong body are not that. Despite what most people might think, gender and biological sex are not intrinsically linked. In fact, they are seperate things. The fact that most people's brain is in harmony with their biological sex does not alter that fact. So there are only 2 genders, though for intersex people, there can be more than 2 sexes, seeing as they have biological components of both sexes. (Though usually one of the sexes' components is more prominent than the other.)

[alpha_omega]

That is false. There are only 2 genders.

(snip.)

I think the only people who really fit into a so-called "third gender" are genderqueer people.

This seems contradictory. It's also the sort of thing I was referring to originally :) The vast majority of people do identify as male or female, but not all. Hence, "pansexual" meaning something similar to "bisexual", but more inclusive of anyone who, for any reason, does not identify as fitting into a binary gender system. So if I'm attracted to males, females, and also genderqueer people (or whoever), or anyone who identifies as something other than male or female, it seems as though "bisexual" isn't quite the proper term.

Edit: also, I wasn't trying to imply that sex and gender were anywhere near the same thing in my earlier post -- but people might argue whether someone who is "bisexual" is attracted to "both sexes" or "both genders". I tried to avoid that can of worms by suggesting that the term could be used either way.

[Invisible Soul]

This seems contradictory. It's also the sort of thing I was referring to originally :) The vast majority of people do identify as male or female, but not all. Hence, "pansexual" meaning something similar to "bisexual", but more inclusive of anyone who, for any reason, does not identify as fitting into a binary gender system. So if I'm attracted to males, females, and also genderqueer people (or whoever), or anyone who identifies as something other than male or female, it seems as though "bisexual" isn't quite the proper term.

Edit: also, I wasn't trying to imply that sex and gender were anywhere near the same thing in my earlier post -- but people might argue whether someone who is "bisexual" is attracted to "both sexes" or "both genders". I tried to avoid that can of worms by suggesting that the term could be used either way.

It is a bit contradictory, I guess. I think a lot of people do tie down gender with biological sex. So to them, someone who is attracted to a person who identifies as female, but was born with male sex anatomy (or the opposite way around) is actually gay, not pansexual. Yet others think that being attracted to someone like that does make you pansexual. Me, I think if you're a straight male, and attracted to the female mind, and physical form, then being attracted to a female who once had male sex organs woudn't make you "gay". I think the problem is, lots of people have different ideas about the gender binary system, and what "qualifies" a person to be male or female. Intersex people are probably the ultimate conundrum. (Ironic, as most people are unaware of their existence) But they are probably the real proof that gender is not intrinsically liked to physical sex. If it were, they would identify as male and female. But most intersex people identify as one gender only, despite having biological characteristics of both sexes. So I guess what makes a person "pansexual", would all depend on who you were talking to, as many people have different opinions on what gender is, and what makes it up.

[CJJ44]

IT IS NOT OK TO STICK YOUR DIC* UP A MANS ASS! PERIOD!

So is it okay to stick it up a woman's ass then? I'm just askin'..... :rolleyes:

[alpha_omega]

So to them, someone who is attracted to a person who identifies as female, but was born with male sex anatomy (or the opposite way around) is actually gay, not pansexual.
Yet others think that being attracted to someone like that does make you pansexual.
(snip.)
So I guess what makes a person "pansexual", would all depend on who you were talking to, as many people have different opinions on what gender is, and what makes it up.

This pretty much sums it up, yes. This is why labels are useful! If people can agree on definitions, that is. But that goes for any word in a language; it's annoying when words are ambiguous, and they're only useful when the meaning of a word is standard among the speakers. Since many of these terms are pretty new to most people, even if they describe ideas that have been around for a long time, it's natural that they haven't quite gotten established/standardized yet.

Even saying "sex is physical, gender is mental" is an oversimplification, which is kind of unfortunate. Even an intersex person, born with genitalia that doesn't fit in to "male" or "female" has a particular set of chromosomes; some would say that XY and XX definitively puts that person into one category or another.
But wait! There's more! There's not just XX and XY, there's XXY and XXX (ha, ha) and others! http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism2.htm

Maybe it's just out of convenience, but I tend to just not care much about physical sex and focus on how the person identifies; after all, they'd know best. So, if a person says "I'm male", he's male in my mind -- simple as that. If they say "I don't know" or "neither", then fine with me. I haven't come across many situations where this approach causes problems, other than specifically discussing my POV with others ;)

[Deisceabal]

Just curious, what would it mean to be sexually attracted to both genders, transsexuals, hermaphrodites ect. but be only romantically interested in the opposite sex? Would that be pansexual, bisexual or?

[Invisible Soul]

Even saying "sex is physical, gender is mental" is an oversimplification, which is kind of unfortunate. Even an intersex person, born with genitalia that doesn't fit in to "male" or "female" has a particular set of chromosomes; some would say that XY and XX definitively puts that person into one category or another.
But wait! There's more! There's not just XX and XY, there's XXY and XXX (ha, ha) and others! http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism2.htm

Maybe it's just out of convenience, but I tend to just not care much about physical sex and focus on how the person identifies; after all, they'd know best. So, if a person says "I'm male", he's male in my mind -- simple as that. If they say "I don't know" or "neither", then fine with me. I haven't come across many situations where this approach causes problems, other than specifically discussing my POV with others ;)

Whether it is oversimplification or not, it is a fact that gender cannot, at least not always, be completely tied down to biological sex. Just because most of the general public believe this to be so, doesn't mean that it is. It is true there are many other chromosomal setups other than XX/XY (It is also possible to have XX males, and XY females, biologically speaking. Anyone who doesnt believe this, can simply do the research, and see for themselves.) Most intersex people are either anatomically and/or biologically a mix of the two sexes. Knowing that this is the case, how do you assign said person's gender, purely based on the strict gender criteria that most believe is the only one available?

Lots of intersex babies had operations forced on them after birth to make them appear as if completely one sex, as doctors suggest leaving them untreated, opens them up to bullying at school, and ostracision from society if they are left as they are. Needless to say, a lot of these kids feel the opposite sex/gender, to the one assigned to them by doctors and/or parents. Then of course, you have gender in brain structure. Males and females have significant differences in certain areas of the brain. It has been shown up that some "mtf transsexuals", have in fact, a brain more congurent with what a female should have. In the same test, gay men were shown to have no difference in brain structure compared to straight males. At least in relation to gender. Seeing as the brain is a biological organ, (just because it is not visible to the naked eye, is no reason to disregard it's relevance to someone's gender) is it fair to brand someone a certain gender purely on their genitalia, when their brain is in fact, of the opposite sex?

Perhaps saying gender is 100% mental is oversimplification, but then it is also true that saying gender is 100% based on physical sex anatomy is also oversimplification. Even taking people's own personal feelings out of it, there is enough scientific and medical evidence to show that even biologically, gender (and even physical sex) is not as cut and dried as most people seem to think it is. Seeing as women and men have differences in brain structure, is it not feasible to say their brain structure is part of what makes them the gender they are? And if so, then that would make some transsexuals at least, have some biological component of the opposite sex. (Though I suppose it could then be argued that said people are in fact intersex, and not transsexual.)

I think pansexual people simply dont care about the gender of a person. They fall in love with the essence and spirit of the person, the person's physical body is actually very much secondary, and indeed not very important to them at all. I think this is essentially what pansexuality is. Questions like the above "are transsexuals really the opposite sex as they claim", and "what gender is a hermaphrodite" (because hermaphrodite/intersex, is NOT a gender, it is the physical sex of the person. Probably the ultimate proof that gender and physical sex are in fact seperate things. The fact that most people's gender falls into line with their physical sex does not change this from being a fact.) are really meaningless to pansexual people, because their physical sex/gender is completely irrelevant to said person's attractiveness. This is how I see it anyway. :)

And if so, the world would probably be a much harmonious place if everyone was pansexual. lol

Just curious, what would it mean to be sexually attracted to both genders, transsexuals, hermaphrodites ect. but be only romantically interested in the opposite sex? Would that be pansexual, bisexual or?

That's narrow minded, not matter what sexuality it is. I cant see the logic to that, unless you are of the belief that all people of a certain sex and/or gender has the same personality. Especially when a lot of trans or hermaphrodite people do not disclose being so. So in saying that, I think a lot of people have been romantically attracted to members of the above groups without realising that they were. Upon realising this, they break up with said person because of this fact. I dont think its a fact that straights cant be romantically attracted to those people, its purely fear that would prevent them from being so.

[alpha_omega]

Most intersex people are either anatomically and/or biologically a mix of the two sexes. Knowing that this is the case, how do you assign said person's gender, purely based on the strict gender criteria that most believe is the only one available?
I'm sorry, which criteria exactly? If a person is intersex, I'd still think of them as whichever gender they wanted me to, whether that's male, female, or some sort of "other" of their own description.


Seeing as the brain is a biological organ, (just because it is not visible to the naked eye, is no reason to disregard it's relevance to someone's gender) is it fair to brand someone a certain gender purely on their genitalia, when their brain is in fact, of the opposite sex?
No. Which is why the current treatment of intersex infants is not satisfactory... It reminds me of circumcision of infant males -- both can lead to some issues later on, especially a feeling of having been forced into something before being able to choose.

Anyway, I think we actually agree on just about everything. I think it's probably too much of a generalization to say "straights are just afraid"; I'd bet that's not the case for *every* hetero out there. :) As for the rest, though, makes sense to me.

[Invisible Soul]

I'm sorry, which criteria exactly? If a person is intersex, I'd still think of them as whichever gender they wanted me to, whether that's male, female, or some sort of "other" of their own description.

I mean the criteria that most of the general public/population have for assigning gender. I think it is safe to say that most people think it's as simple as "penis and testicles at birth =male", and "vagina at birth =female". It is not as simple as that, but it is fair to say that the vast majority of people see it like that. The fact that babies are assigned a gender purely on the basis of their outer sex anatomy is the ultimate proof of this.

No. Which is why the current treatment of intersex infants is not satisfactory... It reminds me of circumcision of infant males -- both can lead to some issues later on, especially a feeling of having been forced into something before being able to choose.

Anyway, I think we actually agree on just about everything. I think it's probably too much of a generalization to say "straights are just afraid"; I'd bet that's not the case for *every* hetero out there. :) As for the rest, though, makes sense to me.I think the current treatment of intersex babies (at least intersex conditions which are immediately visible, not all are) is really a damning verdict on society's strict gender binary system. Its like any deviation of the simple gender assignment I described above is deemed unacceptable, and that the child's best interests are being met by removing an aspect of their genitalia at birth. Of course, this is not always the case, and children born like that should be allowed to make a choice on what gender they are, once they are old enough to express that. I myself, know the pain of this situation only too well...

I didnt mean "all straights", but certainly an overwhelming proportion of straights, men in particular, have a fear of being seen as anything that could be interpreted as "gay". Even on this forum, I have seen several men asking if being attracted to a transwoman makes them gay. And Im sure a few straight guys have been attracted to a trans/intersex woman without realising it. The scenario I mentioned earlier, is a classic example of that. A guy falls for a girl, realises she either has, or at some point has had male genitals, and finishes with her purely for that reason. Why is that? The fear of being seen as gay would seem to be only logical explanation for that, even though he fell for her as a woman, in her appearance, and her personality. I was merely addressing the point in a previous post that insinuated that a person falling for (In a romantic sense) a trans/intersex person can't be straight. I was merely correcting that assumption, and saying that it is quite possible for a straight person to be romantically attracted to those kinds of people, even if it is unknowingly.

[siouxsiexloveless]

I was introduced to the term pansexual a few months ago. It is also called "omnisexual". More so than being bisexual, I feel I am pansexual: it isn't the gender of the individual I fall in love with, it's the person inside the physical body; the soul, the person's essence. If they would make a good partner, I could care less about their sex organs.

[Trissay]

I don't give two shits if people think I'm mentally ill. I like who I like, and no one can possibly change that.

[Fastswitch]

Some people have the unique personality to enjoy sex with whomever they are attracted to. Without worrying about it! Forget gender, that gets you into bisexuality. The people I am referring to don't think in terms of gender. They think in terms of shared pleasure. Gay, straight, trans, old, young, pretty, ugly, etc. they are open to the possibility of giving and receiving sexual pleasure with any person who at the time is attractive. I have always thought of this as pansexual. Not limited to gender issues; freely able to meet any and all; no hangups about sex at all. Sounds neat, but I'm too syereotypical (mores the pity!)
As for CoCo, I feel sorry for the poor soul. Can you magine living with that much hate, that much uncontrolled venom. AND, I'll bet he's had his dick in some pretty filthy pussies - worse than m/f asses!

[babyjay]

i am very open to both males and females, and i know i could love both.

but i don't know about the rest of pansexuality, i'm not sure i would be that open.
so i'm just bisexual?o.o

[AvatarMN]

All this "love the person, not the gender/sex" stuff... I highly doubt there's anyone gay or straight who would agree that they don't love the person they're in love with.

[Invisible Soul]

All this "love the person, not the gender/sex" stuff... I highly doubt there's anyone gay or straight who would agree that they don't love the person they're in love with.

Yes, but a straight/gay person sees themselves as people who are only capable of being in love with people who have a specific set of sexual organs. So the sex organs of the person does matter to straight and gay people. It is arguable whether there is any real difference between pansexual and bisexual people though.

[AvatarMN]

Still, most gay and straight people love the "person" not the "sex organs", even if the wrong organs are a deal-breaker.

[Kythlo]

Yes, but a straight/gay person sees themselves as people who are only capable of being in love with people who have a specific set of sexual organs. So the sex organs of the person does matter to straight and gay people. It is arguable whether there is any real difference between pansexual and bisexual people though.

I would disagree, when I identified as gay I loved my boyfriend who happened to be a pre-op trans guy. I was only really attracted to guys at the time but he had a vagina. I was attracted to him not his genitals and could love him for him nevermind the organs he was assinged at birth.

[Invisible Soul]

I would disagree, when I identified as gay I loved my boyfriend who happened to be a pre-op trans guy. I was only really attracted to guys at the time but he had a vagina. I was attracted to him not his genitals and could love him for him nevermind the organs he was assinged at birth.

I phrased my post wrong. Though for a lot of people, that post would still stand. What I actually meant was, straights and gays could only fall in love with one specific gender. Some people would call you "pansexual" for the fact you love a transguy. I however, would just say you are an enlightened gay man. It is fair to say though, that as an intersex female who was brought up as male, and have genitals that were masculinised, Ive had no luck where romance is concerned. I did get close to one guy, but ended up losing him, probably because I was afraid to get too physically close or he'd discover about my sex organs. It is fair to say I feel Ive been cheated out of the chance of a close, loving relationship.

The problem for trans/intersex people, is lots of others cannot see past their sexual anatomy, or if they're post op, the fact they once had sex organs of the opposite sex. And the only people who usually want to be with people like that, is if they've got a fetish for it. Which is a huge turn off when you're looking for love and companionship. But the fact that straight males have been attracted to me, not knowing about my condition, makes me bitter, because I know most, if not all of those males would have not been interested had they known my anatomic setup. Which is the main reason I think fear is the main thing that would stop a straight guy wanting a relationship with a trans/intersex woman. Because unknowing physical attraction definitely occurs. So definitely contrary to what most people may think, it is not only "pansexual" people who could be attracted to trans/intersex people. Have a relationship with, perhaps. But being romantically attracted to, definitely not.