Are You Taoist?

[Wilson]

I'm just curious as to how many people here consider themselves Taoist. I think its a really cool Philosophy/Religion (whatever) but I didn't know if most of you just take several ideas from Taoism or totally believe in it. Just curious.

[Art Delfo]

I mix it with Buddhism

[Yourcrazedpoet]

I like the down-to-earthiness it introduced into Buddhism

[ethereal]

When I read the Tao Te Ching, it really resonated and connected with me, more than any other religion or belief system ever has. So while I would not call myself a Taoist, I definitely do take a lot from it and incorporate it into my life.

[Meagain]

I like this chart (http://www.kheper.net/topics/greatchainofbeing/Primordial_Tradition.html) (near the bottom from Ken wilbur) and description, which places Taoism under Chinese Religious Complexes. Notice that all the catagories are really the same thing expressed differently.

[cannabiskid420]

I feel that Taoism is to blank. Tao Te Ching was a good read for the poetry and i do like some of the verses and there meaning but i think that someone who follows taoism competly will never go anywhere in life. because according to Lao Tzu it is better to be Nothing than to be Something because without Nothing you can't have Something or that it is better to not try than it is to try and fail.

[slinklikegroove]

I feel that Taoism is to blank. Tao Te Ching was a good read for the poetry and i do like some of the verses and there meaning but i think that someone who follows taoism competly will never go anywhere in life. because according to Lao Tzu it is better to be Nothing than to be Something because without Nothing you can't have Something or that it is better to not try than it is to try and fail.
i don't see that in taoism... where are you trying to go in life and how would taoism hold you back? :) there are so many different translations in english that i find it hard to take much of what is said in a completely literal sense. i read the tao te ching in as profound of terms as i can, within reason of course.

about competition... are you competing to be of higher status than others in some way? that is looked down upon, attaining higher titles to put oneself ahead of another. its not that you shouldn't go anywhere but it is to realize the path you are on and why. be true to yourself, eachother, nature, and the tao.

[themnax]

what i am is an awairness that observes. that makes me a little bit of many things and not entirely any one of them. i find the science-like honesty of phylosophical taoism refreshing and feel a kindred to it in my own perceptions, as i do many aspects of shinto and indiginous traditions, though i possess no committed intimacy with any of them, just a sense of greater spiritual closeness to these three then to any of the more dominant name brands of belief with which the less thoughtful so arbitrarily and blindly identify themselves.

i do feel a personal closeness with the 'kami' of the mountains where i grew up.

=^^=
.../\...

[George]

isn't it that we're all just here and the tao "the way" is just the way. I look at life as though the tao resonates in and out of "Everyone" in different areas of their being; not being aware of the book enabeling considerations all of it's aspects makes it hard to be completely centered and intune with the perfection of the all of all, but i've met people exactly like that and thought, wow, "you have incredible wisdom"

America is lousing it's natural taoist, taoists in the form of people of the land, back country folks of the old world who knew the ways of the land and lived a much closer to what the words of the tao portray i believe ;authentic christians; taoist in spirit

really... if all of us were to go out alone into nature, in the wilderness where there was know recolection of society or the ways of life in progression "city life" we'd all come to the consciousness of the tao. it isn't an it by my perception; we are the tao.

i feel that it's much easier to find the tao if we're able to look at ourselves and yes, our inflated egos, as if each persons me, or the thought of "you" within yourself, as, in a sense, sick. The western mind, possibly because of the deeply rooted ideaology of a monotheistic god, along with the consept of original sin, jumped the track of balance hundreds and hundreds of years ago and really, weather we like it or not, the spirit has been imbedded within our souls ever since childbirth. noone i know doesn't have an out of balance grandmother/father or mother/father who used to be a christian.

I spent some time with a group of chinese people, all between the age of 30 & 40 who'd been raised with a taoist philosophy as their root. it was really incredible how different and i might say enjoyable it was to have been allowed into their realm for only a second. I was very high for 8 to 9 hours around them and then unfortunately my western, attraction mind took over and had me giving very very slight glances to a girl i'd been attracted to the entire time and the spirit of a self-involved mind could be seen by every person in the around 20 person or so group and the realization for both me and them of my wavering taoist spirit became evedent.

that's basically why i think an admitance of being off track or sick is essential in the merge to realization of the tao.

[Fallout55]

I feel that Taoism is to blank. Tao Te Ching was a good read for the poetry and i do like some of the verses and there meaning but i think that someone who follows taoism competly will never go anywhere in life. because according to Lao Tzu it is better to be Nothing than to be Something because without Nothing you can't have Something or that it is better to not try than it is to try and fail.
Ah but what does it mean to somewhere in life?

Is it being rich and famous?

Or do people need those things to be content?

A content man is a content man no matter how much wealth he has.

A dead man is a dead man no matter how much his coffin costs.

Now if pain is caused by not having these things we "need" why should we struggle to obtain them when we can simply give up the desire binding us to these things?

[colorful_hippie]

I would not classifiy myself as a taoist, but that is because to me that would make it a religion, I dont view it as worship or a way to please the spirits, I view it as teachings on life and earth and the way we should live, having said that yes I do follow the teachings

[dirtydog]

Wilderness is one place to hear it: The mighty roar of the eternal void.

Once I sat quietly by the side of a lake (Celestine Lake, Jasper Park, Alberta, Canada)all afternoon, the nearest other person being probably fifteen miles to the south. It was a very small lake, perhaps 1/4 mile by 200 yards. Three birds were talking: one at the southeast, one at the southwest and one at the north. They were saying something like "Come here, baby" or "This is my nest, buddy, keep moving", or who knows what? But it was a definite conversation.

* * *
http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/LittleHarborRocks.jpg
If you're lucky enough to have a seashore, do this. Sit facing the breakers. Close your eyes. Listen. Stereo sound comes in.
From the left : Shshshsh shaa.
From the right, start at right and slowly moving left: Shaa shsh.
At center: Whap! Shshsh Shaa (happening before the wave at right finishes).
And on and on.

You can probably do this with a prairie wind or even a mountain wind, if you're well away from traffic and people.

[dirtydog]

I feel that Taoism is to blank. Tao Te Ching was a good read for the poetry and i do like some of the verses and there meaning but i think that someone who follows taoism competly will never go anywhere in life. because according to Lao Tzu it is better to be Nothing than to be Something because without Nothing you can't have Something or that it is better to not try than it is to try and fail.There is a time for work and a time for meditation. If you have a really boring job, daydreaming about some mountain retreat sometimes helps.

I don't have the Tao Te Ching in front of me. Some of Lao's ideas might indeed be better suited to a retiree than to someone slogging up a corporate ladder, working the oil patch, or fixing power lines in the middle of an ice storm. I suggest you take what you need and leave the rest.

For example, the biblical Old Testament has some good ideas in it, but few of us today would try to abide by the laws of Moses. Also, big chunks of it are a 'God On Our Side' apology for a scorched earth policy of Israelites toward their various neighbors. The first thing Joshua did after defeating Jericho was put everyone to the sword except a couple of spies.

The New Testament contains many references to miraculous events which are difficult for non-Christians to accept. It remains excellent if you are dying and need the comforting idea of an afterlife.

The Koran is blunt about the need to slay infidels, and outspoken about the need of woman to obey man.

Zen texts, such as Teachings of Huang Po, are faulted by some for their attack on the value of rational thought. Rational thought is held by most Westerners and most modern Japanese to be of great value in day to day life.

In the same way, the Tao Te Ching has a lot of lyrical stuff about how by doing nothing, everything gets done. This has to be taken with a grain of salt, so to speak. Am I supposed to do nothing the next time I have a flat tire on the highway?

[dirtydog]

I spent some time with a group of chinese people, all between the age of 30 & 40 who'd been raised with a taoist philosophy as their root. it was really incredible how different and i might say enjoyable it was to have been allowed into their realm for only a second. I was very high for 8 to 9 hours around them and then unfortunately my western, attraction mind took over and had me giving very very slight glances to a girl i'd been attracted to the entire time and the spirit of a self-involved mind could be seen by every person in the around 20 person or so group and the realization for both me and them of my wavering taoist spirit became evedent.

that's basically why i think an admitance of being off track or sick is essential in the merge to realization of the tao.Boys watch girls, girls watch boys. That is natural programming and not something to feel guilty about. If you've become actually indifferent to cute girls, it means you're sick, senile or gay. There is also the possibility that the girl would feel insecure and unwanted if no guys were sending her these signals.

[mortes]

Like many others I wouldn't consider myself a taoist (or any term really, even athiest) The labels seem so... strange in my mind. It's like a foreign idea (the label) entering and becoming something with me. I don't like it. With that aside, I do like many of the taoist teachings and the tao te ching was really good. I don't agree with a couple of them (the ones surrounding leading your life a certain way, and being devout, shit like that) and on the whole I don't agree with teaching someone a religion/philosphy/etc in the sense of I'm right you're wrong. The tao doesn't do this, but regardless I take the tao for what it's worth and enjoy the bits of revelation that they bring and enjoy the relations I can make between the ancient chinese and my life.

[mortes]

dirty dog what you wrote about the sea reminds me of kerouac's poem "the sea" that can be found at the end of big sur. Described as "a brilliant poem appended, on the hallucinatory sounds of the pacific ocean at big sur." - Allen Ginsberg

I'm not suggesting (or not suggesting) that you read it, but its very similar to what you wrote and just as interesting.

Also, I don't agree that you can "get anywhere" in life. Or that you can "do something" with your life. You have it to yourself and if you accomplish whatever you want to then that's your own thing. It'd be impossible to determine the definition of those terms and to me they don't exist. It's hard to debate a topic such as this when its merely personal preference/opinion though.

[dirtydog]

dirty dog what you wrote about the sea reminds me of kerouac's poem "the sea" that can be found at the end of big sur. Described as "a brilliant poem appended, on the hallucinatory sounds of the pacific ocean at big sur." - Allen Ginsberg

I'm not suggesting (or not suggesting) that you read it, but its very similar to what you wrote and just as interesting.




I could have gotten this idea from Kerouac, years ago. It just goes to show I'm capable of learning from reading, but this surf-listening meditation is very soothing. You're also clued in right away that the surf is happening now, it will be happening tomorrow and for hundreds of millions of years to come, and it has been happening for hundreds of millions of years.Ksshhaw, pause. Ksshhaw. Whap! Ssshhhi ssshhaw.
And this guy, sitting here shoving his toes in the sand, is programmed to die in about twenty years, and knows it.


I'd rather be in sync with Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac than with Bill Gates and George W. More recommended reading: Richard Brautigan, A Confederate General From Big Sur.

[sejtzu]

I am most certainly a Taoist but I would call myself a non conventional Taoist in that I prefer the Zhuangzi to the Tao Te Ching.

[Aeshura]

I don't think you can *be* taoist. I mean the tao just *is* there are no questions to answer, no wondering why. there's living to be done,, who has time for why?I've studied the writings of Ching and Laotsu but I can't say I practice it. I can't say I believe it either, cause believes gives the probability of not existing and to mean existing, the act of existing, as all.

[Aeshura]

There is a time for work and a time for meditation. If you have a really boring job, daydreaming about some mountain retreat sometimes helps.

I don't have the Tao Te Ching in front of me. Some of Lao's ideas might indeed be better suited to a retiree than to someone slogging up a corporate ladder, working the oil patch, or fixing power lines in the middle of an ice storm. I suggest you take what you need and leave the rest.

In the same way, the Tao Te Ching has a lot of lyrical stuff about how by doing nothing, everything gets done. This has to be taken with a grain of salt, so to speak. Am I supposed to do nothing the next time I have a flat tire on the highway?I think your taking it all in face value. Let's go to the tire scenario...What it says is Don't Whine to *god* about why you nor should you think in terms of divine intervention. Don't curse and rave at the tire, at your situation, at the road. likewise if a desirable female shows up and help you out, don't thank your tire, *god*, or the situation. You got a flat tire, that's all that happened.

[phriendofthedevil]

i think that being a devote taoist would be contradictory to taoism...
i that blindly (or not) embracing a religion - even a religion like tao - is very un-tao-like.

[Kaoz]

Yes. I consider myself a "taoist" for lack of a better word.

I am of this Universe, like a hologram linking and reflecting parts of this vast Emptiness, indivisible from the whole. The Great Tao.

[Birmingham]

Hi Wilson,

the longer a daoist practices daoism, the less likely he is to call himself a taoist.

the first line of the Tao Te Ching says "tao called tao is not really tao".

[dirtydog]

I mix it with BuddhismI noticed your signature with interest:
Big Brother is Watching You.
Doesn't apply to me. My probation officer is female.

As far as the Way is concerned, it's not up to me to follow the Way or not follow the Way. These things are not in my hands.

I work on a golf course. Geese eat worms. Bull snakes eat gophers. Herons eat fish. The sun also rises, and the sun sets. All the rivers flow into the sea, yet the sea is not full. What profits he who works, in that wherein he labours?

[dirtydog]

the longer a daoist practices daoism, the less likely he is to call himself a taoist. the first line of the Tao Te Ching says "tao called tao is not really tao".The Wade-Giles system of Mandarin to Roman character transliteration used the following rules (see link for complete list):
WADE-GILES character pronounced Pinyin system character
CH pronounced ZH
CH' pronounced CH
CHI pronounced JI
CH'I pronounced QI or KI
K pronounced G
K' pronounced K
P pronounced B
P' pronounced P
T pronounced D
T' pronounced T
TS pronounced Z
TS' pronounced C or S

Fortunately the Mandarin to Pinyin Romanization system is more widely used today.

I don't know who Wade and Giles were, but their system using apostrophes with consonants resulted in confusion which exists to this day. The link for complete Wade-Giles to Pinyin conversion is
http://www.library.ucla.edu/eastasian/ctable2.htm

[sublime94]

yes I am. And MAN does it piss off rednecks!

[rocsolid]

when the great tao is forgotten, philantropy and morality appear.intelligent stratagies are produced and great hypocracies emerge.

[rocsolid]

this so called pig empire your talking about is firstly the product of far greater men then you, secondly, to quote spiro agnew, when the hippies stop smoking all day and change the world using the system already there then ill close my mouth, and just to really piss you off child, read the the tao te ching and you might find something important, every action has an equal and opposing reaction, a man who lives violently does not live very long. and shop lifting in walmart doesnt count as a stab at the empire. fool.

[groovecookie]

I am new to using these forums and didn't realize there were more posts on other pages, so I originally responded to a subject that had already changed, but I haven't learned how to delete a post yet, only edit, so i might as well use it to respond to the new subject "the pig empire". About the hippies stopping smoking and changing the world with the system already in place, that's what we're doing! All except for the stopping smoking part. :leaving:

[TerminallyChill]

I'd say I agree with and try to live by fundamental Taoist principles, but I don't really consider myself a "taoist." I believe in the notion that their is no real objective truth of any sort, and that distinctions or opposites are created only through the collective human consciousness. I believe that, independent of our own minds, there is no such thing as good or evil, right or wrong, beautiful or ugly. Everything just is--without conscious minds to perceive or judge it, how can anything do any more?

But I don't make any attempt to follow "the way" of pure, objective existence; after all, Lao Tzu explicitly says that doing so is impossible.
I am a human being, and thus I am inevitably going to perceive "unnatural" traits and opposites as humans do. Human society is the world I live in, not the idealistic and fantastic world of the way. I acknowledge the existence of right and wrong, etc., in the context of that society, the only context that is relevant.

I guess I acknowledge Lao Tzu's conception of the way as being a sort of idealistic, underlying truth to reality. I like to think that everything just exists, with no particular bias beyond that. And in practice, the ideas behind Taoism are the same behind a relativistic approach to morality, which I firmly hold. I don't think conceptions of right and wrong are objectively defined or set in stone; rather, morality is fluid and adjusts to societal standards and circumstances, in keeping with the Taoist theory that it is just an abstract construct of our minds, not some set of absolute truths.

[brickcircle]

I think birmingham hit it on the nose. ( if there is a nose )??? thats the beauty of the Way, the way is and it isnt, you are a toaist and you isnt. Of the books of wisdom I relate and read taoist texts the most. However raised christian I can never shake that.

[wolf_at_door]

What/who can be defined as Tao is not Tao, I think Tao Te said - or something like that.

Tao can't be defined. Tao involves no criterions. Tao is not a label you put on yourself. Tao is something you are.

And Tao is not something you label yourself. If you are a bricklayer and Tao you say: "I'm a bricklayer" - you don't say: "I'm a Taoist".

[woody666]

What/who can be defined as Tao is not Tao, I think Tao Te said - or something like that.

Tao can't be defined. Tao involves no criterions. Tao is not a label you put on yourself. Tao is something you are.

And Tao is not something you label yourself. If you are a bricklayer and Tao you say: "I'm a bricklayer" - you don't say: "I'm a Taoist".Of course you're right, but while labels are limiting they can be useful.

I seek to live in harmony with the Tao & I call myself a Taoist because it is a convenient label that alludes to the path I'm following. The word is of limited use but as a label is useful because it means that if I'm looking for a forum, for example, to discuss the Tao, I can look for "Taoism" or "Taoist" sites and it gives me a greater chance of finding what I'm looking for than choosing websites at random.

It's also handy in conversations if people ask what you believe. I can say "I'm a Taoist". If they want to know more then they can ask about it, if not then it's a lot shorter than going into a long explanation when all they're interested in is a short label.

[sunyatasamsara]

im a Yogacara Buddhist basically the same as a Taoist. Zen Buddhism came from Yogacara Buddhism. Taoist say god is absolute nothingness just like the sunyata of Buddhism.

"i dream therefore i am not"

[wolf_at_door]

Of course you're right, but while labels are limiting they can be useful.

I seek to live in harmony with the Tao & I call myself a Taoist because it is a convenient label that alludes to the path I'm following. The word is of limited use but as a label is useful because it means that if I'm looking for a forum, for example, to discuss the Tao, I can look for "Taoism" or "Taoist" sites and it gives me a greater chance of finding what I'm looking for than choosing websites at random.

It's also handy in conversations if people ask what you believe. I can say "I'm a Taoist". If they want to know more then they can ask about it, if not then it's a lot shorter than going into a long explanation when all they're interested in is a short label.
I dig it. :)

[natural philosophy]

the tao is not the tao

[sunyatasamsara]

exactly the Tao is not a concept, it is. One time i was tripping and had to write this down.

"it is what it is"

[dirtydog]

Why drag in right and wrong?

[themnax]

i call myself one who attempts to avoid deceiving myself, knowing full well my imperfections.

=^^=
.../\...

[woody666]

i call myself one who attempts to avoid deceiving myself, knowing full well my imperfections.Well that's just a lot of words saying not very much at all. If you asked most people they'd probably agree that those words described them. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[themnax]

Well that's just a lot of words saying not very much at all. If you asked most people they'd probably agree that those words described them. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gifmaybe, maybe not. what more do you believe needs to be said?
(what more do you believe CAN even be said, without being in some way deceptive, of both self and others?)

rightly or wrongly i see taoism, and i claim no expertese, as precisely not pretending to know what is not known. much as i also see this in many indiginous traditions in their actual practice.

=^^=
.../\...

[rainbowedskylover]

i never try to settle for one thing, one frame of thought, which any religion, philosophy school/ science is anyway. one thing will never grasp all there is, i myself will never grasp all there is either. i just take bits from wherever i run into things that keep my mind busy and I have to say Taoism is something I really dig, though i've only just started up reading about it.

[captainblack666]

(replying to a thread that has been idle for some time=i fail)

I sort of refer to myself as being "Taoist" because it is easier to breifly sum up my ideas and beliefs with that. As far as "are you a taoist?" there is a comlicated answer to that.

Taoism is split into different things in a sense. There is a religious side to it having a theistic ideology to it, and then there are more of a philosophical and way of life and acceptance to it that really cant be considered a religion as far as theistic religions go.

I am simple, while at the same time complicated, as are my views. They are the same as the view of taoism on the universe as a whole, there is a balancing.

My ultimate goal is sort of the mix of Taoism and Buddhism, with a zen outlook and meditation.

I try to live as natural and as simple as I can. I try to be peaceful, while accepting that self defense, and preparation for self defense (such as studying martial arts, etc.) are also important. The ultimate goal is peace, but with peace there will almost always be a sense of war, that is part of the balance, those with a pure, simple and natural mind will avoid this, and know it is not needed, but will also study and train to act in defense, never as a showing of dominance through strength or power though.

I view the universe as one entity. Everything is made of energy. Atoms are known as the smallest particles, each atom is made of positive, negative and neutral energy. This energy makes up all things, had no beginning through the theory of energy exchange, and has no end. Rather than thinking along the lines of "the big bang" I view this energy was always there in some form, the universe was always there in some form, the way that energy changes in its constant flux to create this here and now is just what I am experiencing as energy has formed into molecules and repeated in a complex process to create me as a human.

I accept that I am made of the same thing as everything around me in my simplest form.

As far as a here and now, consciousness outlook. I appreciate that I came together in the form I did to be human, have intelligence and free will within limits of natural law, and have the experience of consciousness and a perception of reality. I therefor enjoy everyday and each moment for what it is and what I can do with it. In that mindset, I disagree with those who say Taoism teaches it is better to be nothing than something or to not try than to try and fail. I view it is simply and outlook and a view and acceptance of simple, natural law, and oneness with the infinite universe that contains all things(which is where I believe the idea of all theistic religions stems from). This in no way teaches to be nothing. It teaches that whether something or nothing we are energy in some form all part of one infinite entity in constant flux.

In that view, yes, I would say I am a Taoist. However, having the most basic and fundamental Taoist views, I dont feel that label means anything, it just simply explains to those who feel everything needs a label along what lines ones views lie near.

I hope this makes at least some sense to anyone reading it.

[themnax]

well, and of course as i say, i claim no authority, but i see the basic tennant of taoism being that if you think you know what cannot be known, you're full of shit.

to put it a bit crudely and bluntly perhapse, but it is a principal i endorse whole heartedly and see no fault in.

there's a lot more else to it of course, like the most good is done by doing the least harm, and even doing the lest at all when avoidance of harm is uncertain.

=^^=
.../\...

[fragile wings]

I consider myself a Taoist of sorts. I don't claim to be a follower of any one path, except for the one in my soul.

[Jimmy P]

I don't consider myself much of anything, but a lot of the concepts and ideas of Taoism work well with a lot of other spiritual views, including my own.