What activities can COOL members participate in? [Archive]

Skip

07-20-2006, 01:12 AM

Now this is where things get interesting. :)

Central to my concept of COOL, is having members engage in community supported activities. The purpose of this is to solidify our group identity and to present the wider community with a variety of services that will benefit the public and illustrate our selfless intentions.

There are two main categories of activities I'm referring to. The first would be religious ceremonies that members can participate in that express their beliefs, their joy, their communion with One Love and each other.

These would include the usual rites-of-passage like reaching adulthood, marriage (if one choses that option), death, devotional/meditation activities - which could conceivably include everything from Sufi Dancing to Shiva worship to pagan fertility rites to rock concerts to Zazen!

The second category would be community outreach activities. The could provide things like counseling, environmental awareness, neighborhood improvement, daycare, recycling and other social projects. We can share our wisdom and skills with the larger community.

If we are to be a real community (which we seem to be already), then COOL would provide its members with social, legal and moral support when needed.

We could also get involved as activists, esp. if there doesn't seem to be any effective organizations seeking the changes we'd like to see in the broader society. But this would have to be an individual's choice regarding participation. Again, I would think it unnecessary to force anyone to do anything.

However if the community wishes, it could set a level of involvement that would be required to continue membership in the community. In other words, if you don't participate in anyway with the community, then it would be hard to say you're really a member. There should be a minimum of responsibility set to maintain one's standing, I would think. I mean you can always agree with the community's ideas, but to be an active member one would have to be active in something.

So I see a committee selecting what activities members might be interested in participating in, and somehow making those official. This would never mean other activities aren't, just that those particular ones are "sanctioned" or "official".

Being a virtual community of course would limit our options for group activities in a particular location. Of course should the community grow in size, it would be possible to create local groups who could then get together for these functions.

So we should initially focus on activities that members can do alone or with friends. Some of these would take the form of rites or ceremonies. We could adopt existing ones or create entirely new ones.

I'll go into the possibilities of these later...

Morning Myst

07-20-2006, 03:56 AM

These would include the usual rites-of-passage like reaching adulthood, marriage (if one choses that option), death, devotional/meditation activities - which could conceivably include everything from Sufi Dancing to Shiva worship to pagan fertility rites to rock concerts to Zazen!
This is where I can see a problem rising. The Hip community is dispersed around the world, which makes it difficult for rites requiring a "priest" (sorry, lack of a better term. Maybe Officiant?). I, myself, live in Montreal, and I don't think I could make a trip to get my marriage celebrated (assuming you're o.k. with gay marriages ;) ).

As for the other stuff, like meditating and calling upon Gaïa, it's easy to do it alone, so no problem there.

I also love the idea of volonteering and community services. I believe that all who can should help other.

themnax

07-20-2006, 12:19 PM

i always dream of building demonstration communities like j. donald walters did/does/is doing, with ananda. and it is always just that; dreaming. yet things DO get built and done. and we can be togather in our hearts and in our dreams.

and who'se to say we can't pray, chant, ritualize, without officiants, in our collective dreams?

there ARE other things we CAN do too. no one of us, i very much doubt, can compell any other of us to actualy do them, and this is a very good thing because no one can ever completely know the reality of anyone else's situation, even however intimately they may personaly be aquainted with their outward form and tangable presence.

my feeling remains that the greatest good is the avoidance of causing harm, and along those lines, boycotting of aggressiveness, and finding and using as much as possible, alternatives to driving an automobile, buying power from the combustion fed grid, groceries from the corporate distribution mechanism, housing from contractors, lumber from clear cutters and so on. the list can grow and alternatives like public transportation and local produce at farmer's markets or actual potlatching with neighbors are among the do's to replace the desired don'ts.

rites and cerimonies. the simplest solutions are the most eligant even here. although diksha, the transference of spirit energy involves creating sprit energising settings.

i am leary of setting required levels of envolvement. again none of us can ever really know the limitations of anyone else's reality.

motivation is one of those things i see as being more important what is motivated then how much it is. the love of all that is friendly and nontangable, without further attempting to predefine what is beyond human capacity to conceive, but only rather to accept that it is, this is a powerfully positive unifying force.

really the most important thing, if we don't want to fall into the problem found with so many of other beliefs, is to avoid encouraging ourselves and each other to deceive ourselves as to the mechanisms by which harm is caused and avoided.

=^^=
.../\...

BlackBillBlake

07-20-2006, 12:42 PM

I think it depends on how many people want to join in - if it gets bigger then there's probably more scope for group activities and meet ups etc.

One thing I'd suggest is to come up with some kind of symbol or logo for COOL.
Christians have the cross, Muslims the crescent, Hindus the Om, CND had the 'peace sign'.
Maybe people could submit ideas and designs which could then be decided on by vote or whatever. I'm sure there's lots of creative and artistic people out there.

To return to group activities - perhaps it would be possible to arrange stuff on a regional basis - by city, state or country.

Tipo Sensuale

07-20-2006, 12:53 PM

Central to any community - whether religious, civil, or whatever - is the concept of shared rites and shared experiences.
COOL should have some basic 'rites' for birth, marriage and death. Maybe even coming of age rites, but they need not be a formal event requiring an officiant. Maybe a laxer view of rituals, where if two COOL believers want to get married there is a ritual they can undertake on the beach, in the fields, or wherever - just requiring the two of them and a witness. No officiant, no need for mass congregations, just a simple ritual that can be repeated amongst one couple or amongst a couple and thousands of celebrants.

SvgGrdnBeauty

07-20-2006, 04:56 PM

Yes..you want to be careful with rituals and the like...if you want an open community ...you can have these sort of things open...but you can be restricted....

Skip

07-20-2006, 08:13 PM

I'm reposting this here from the CB forum.

I envision special ceremonies (like a rock concert) to honor the great musicians of our time. The ones who pushed the envelope, turning entertainment into a visceral and spiritual experience. I'm referring to musicians like the Beatles, Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, etc. These pop idols are already worshipped by millions, so I think it would be a great idea to create a kind of ceremony to honor these musical "saints" who gave their all to their craft, their music a life-long inspiration to so many!

Imagine if we had a traditional setting like a gothic church, or even an outdoor setting like an amphitheater or a stonehenge type place, and we bring in the amps and live bands (or even a dj if no live bands available), and conduct a ceremony to honor their music.

I would expect such music to be a part of a number of COOL ceremonies.

Of course other types of music are more than welcome (let's not forget ppl like Ravi Shankar - great for meditation), sakuhachi, chanting, etc. There would be few limits on this, although I think some kinds of music might be too dissonant to many.

I think such ceremonies would meet themnax's statement:
"the simplest solutions are the most eligant even here. although diksha, the transference of spirit energy involves creating spirit energising settings"

There is such a wonderful spirit energy at rock concerts, no?

Skip

07-20-2006, 08:18 PM

i am leary of setting required levels of envolvement. again none of us can ever really know the limitations of anyone else's reality.
Yes, well involvement could be as untaxing as helping create the Conscious Bible. Which would require people to do web research and cut & paste & maybe add a commentary here and there. I doubt that would tax anyone more than posting in these forums does.

People who join, and don't contribute in some way, really aren't members as far as I can see.

COOL may be obliged to help its members in some sticky situations, possibly even taking resources away from others. This situation could easily be abused by people who claim to be members but have never contributed in any way. So that is one place where we'll probably need to draw the line.

Skip

07-20-2006, 08:30 PM

One thing I'd suggest is to come up with some kind of symbol or logo for COOL.
This is being worked on as we speak. Someone is designing a logo of a heart with wings (similar to the sufi logo, but with other symbols). If anyone else likes that idea, you can submit an image for review.

However, nothing is set in stone, so anyone who has a good idea can open another thread and discuss it or post up an image they think might work. We may open this to a vote later.

Speaking of voting, I haven't yet mentioned the DEMOCRATIC nature of COOL. I may have come up with the idea, and at this juncture I have the most reponsibility for it, that doesn't mean I'm the decider of everything. I want you ppl to be involved as much as possible in decision making.

I've got an organizational structure I wrote up a long time ago for this, but I probably need to review it again before I present it. It involves setting up committees to share responsibility for decision making, with the general membership getting to vote on most issues. This is a CORE value of COOL, democracy.

For example on the Conscious Bible, we can either setup a committee to review the submissions and decide themselves what goes in, or we could open it to everyone to vote. We could even make this question a poll for everyone to decide.

I'll probably have to retain authority on questions that affect this site or the coolove.org site, and financial and legal issues that would affect Hip Inc. or myself personally.

So one of the most important activities of COOL members is to VOTE! That too helps keep one "active" in the community.

drumminmama

07-24-2006, 03:02 AM

I understand the value of ritual, but this (COOL) could be a point where we can free spirit from dogma.
That would be a demonstration of ONE LOVE.

The great popularity of Pagan sects and the so-called Kabaalah movement (Y Berg's, not actual Zohar-Tanya ecstatic worship) is based on a desire to move from dictated ritual to self-guided ritual, and eventually, being with the infinite.

THat said, perhaps we could agree to mark birth, coming of age, dedication to partners (howz zat for allowing all human partnerships, gay, straight and poly?) passage from childbearing, death and so on...
Now, how to do that?
Obviously no one is born into COOL (yet). So they have ritual that speaks to their soul. That's why white people jump brooms and goys smash glass at weddings. Something speaks to them.
Having a data base (even referred) of life passage rituals around the woorld with the technical and social aspects along with the spiritual aspects would be a great service.
prototype vows/ sevices online.

I strongly suggest looking into ordination mechanics as well. ULC and Spiritual Humanism both on-line ordain.
as for active, next time you are doing something, have COOL referenced.
Protesting? have a line like COOL- Community of One Love (Web site addy) as a tagline on your sign. Then tell people about it.
at a show? stickers! just the right size for Nalgene bottles to cover the brand name.
Making and selling something?
a COOL link on a Web page or a flier in the shopping bag. Heck, COOL cloth bags....

Scholar_Warrior

07-24-2006, 04:46 AM

Religion, being a system, requires dogma as structure.

Understand things for what they are. Cool is a brilliant idea for the structuring of the chaotic imput from many into one coherent group, or democracy. This has a very powerful value, but do not confuse it for what it is not. This can be a religion, but the onus is always on the individual to extract truth from the preserved code.

The word 'religion' is based on the latin, religare', which means to bind. The idea, of course is the binding of the individual with the infinite, or of the particle with the whole. It is a complete system.

Like all systems, individual religions have their strengths and their weaknesses. It is up to the individual to solve the puzzle of the signposts given by these systems by distilling the truths out of the clues left by their elders.

It seems to me that what is most important is to create a legally legitamate entity through which those of us with a greater tolerance of diversity should be allowed to seek "God" in our chosen manner.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Skip

07-24-2006, 08:35 AM

I'm 100% with you on that.

Love the day of the dead! It's almost as much fun as halloween! Now there's a celebration I like! :)

Halloween is a time when we face our fears, and get rewarded for doing so. It's similar to day of the dead.

So what would a COOL Halloween be like?

kitty fabulous

07-24-2006, 11:48 PM

Well as a Pagan, I celebrate Samhain, not Halloween, and there is a difference. For me, it is about crossing the threshold into the darkness, with the trust that I will emerge again in the light, transformed, and free of the past. It's also about lifting the veils, altering or expanding consciousness to reach beyond the predictable and ordinary - again, crossing a threshold - into a realm where things are less certain and absolute, but perhaps, paradoxically, more meaningful. It is the time when we push ourselves beyond our fears into the unknown, are transformed by death (of ego if not of body), and make peace with and release our pasts, making room for the future.

I think a COOL Halloween/Samhain/Day of the Dead (really we should name our own holidays, rather than borrowing ones that already exist) might include the following:

1) Some kind of acknowledgement and celebration of those who have gone before, especially those who have encouraged personal, community, or cultural transformation.

2) Some kind of releasing, cleansing, or symbolic death, to free the participants of the "excess baggage" of ego and the stresses of the mundane year. Symbolic transformations, such as dressing up in meaningful costumes as commonly practiced on Halloween/Samhain/similar holidays, and/or by some other means such as ritual body modification like tattooing or piercing might be included in these practices.

3) Some kind of a structured rite of consciousness exploration, with ethnogens or without, as the participant chooses. I believe that at the very least a superficial level of structure, training, and guidance should be a part of this rite, to avoid the problems encountered by other groups trying to re-create or reconstruct substance-induced shamanic practices in the past.

What other seasonal/subcultural/spiritual observances should we ackowledge?

Skip

07-25-2006, 05:20 AM

That sounds great Kitty! :)

I like it all. I think it will take time to develop the ceremonies.

Yes! I thinking naming our own holidays is good, esp. if there isn't any equivalent, or I'd say in the beginning we could start with those holidays that seem most appropriate, and maybe research any ancient rituals that might also seem adaptable to our needs. I wouldn't mind attempting some of the old rituals if they seem intriguing. After all why throw out hundreds if not thousands of years of social adaptations? The ancient ones had lots of time on their hands to test various methods and developed ceremonies that most fulfilled their purpose.

I'm all for modernizing things if they seem too quaint or ridiculous. I'm way more interested in the meaning and effect of the ceremonies than the actual instructions.

Of course I think we should design ALL the ceremonies to be as fun as possible, even somber ones, within reason. (I wanna Balinese funeral - how's that sound for fun?)

I have a list in my head of ceremonies. But I'm just gonna go one at a time so I don't short change any of them.

I like Halloween/Samhain to be a mind expanding experience. I think that a major goal of Halloween and Day of the Dead is to displace the fear that people have of death and the unknown. It's appropriate that Halloween (all souls day) happens in the mid fall when death is all around (leaves falling from trees etc.).

So a psychedelic experience would seem to be an appropriate ceremony on Halloween. There's always an element of fear in every trip. I once dropped acid on Halloween and went to a huge party. It was one of the best nights ever!

Believe it or not, Halloween is just about the ONLY holiday I celebrate anymore! But I'm ready to get more involved. I've just been missing the motivation. Every damn religion's holidays seem so remote in meaning anymore. Not that I ever put much into them.

Oh, wait, Thanksgiving too. I celebrate that because to me it's imbued with the most meaning for everyone. A day of thanks. No religious connotations, no commercialism, just good food and friends and family.

What kind of Thanksgiving ceremony would be COOL? Are we ever going to stop making COOL puns? Oh damn! That was a pun too! ;)

BlackBillBlake

07-25-2006, 12:46 PM

Thanksgiving is purely an American thing - I can't see many non-Americans wanting to adopt it. I myself wouldn't be interested.

I think it's ok to celebrate the main pagan festivals - solstices, equinoxes as that fits in with the seasonal changes etc.
However I'm not really very focused on rituals myself. I see it as belonging to the lower end of spiritual experience.

Another idea would be to have days like the church has saints days, only dedicated to teachers, saints etc from many diverse traditions.

Skip

07-25-2006, 06:16 PM

Actually thanksgiving is based on a PAGAN holiday. It goes back to harvest festivals in pre-xtian times. The name thanksgiving is definitely of American origin.

I don't see why non-Americans wouldn't like it. In fact wherever I've lived in the world I've turned my non-American friends on to Thanksgiving, and every one of them LOVE it!

The last time was with my buddy Wally Duck and his family in Australia. They slaughtered their biggest, best turkey (yes they raised them, but never ate them or had thanksgiving) for it. They invited their friends and we all gave thanks for our blessings. They liked it so much they said they would continue to do it every year.

And when I was living in Amsterdam, we would invite our Dutch friends over and they would freak out cause the Dutch eat turkey, but never get to see a whole cooked one. In fact a Dutch friend I haven't seen in about 6 years, recently contacted me just to remind me about our Thanksgiving dinners.

Of course it could just be the turkey and trimmings, but I believe every human has a need to "give thanks", and to have at least ONE day dedicated to acknowledging others, the bounty of nature and our good fortune at being alive another year.

Skip

07-25-2006, 06:45 PM

However I'm not really very focused on rituals myself. I see it as belonging to the lower end of spiritual experience.

Ah but don't you see how much FUN & rewarding they can be? Just like halloween and thanksgiving. These are celebrations, but with a minimum of ritual, and what ritual there is, is straight forward, easily understood, but still imbued with meaning.

I've always been put off by religious rituals as they mostly serve the purposes of the clergy; to reinforce their role & status in the community, to keep their flock from straying, to exercise their power over their members (confession is a good example), to provide situations where they can get money from their congregation, to reinforce the dogma, etc.

The benefits for the congregation of course is the "blessing" they supposedly get for births, confirmations, marriages, funerals, etc. This is the part that bothers me the most. The idea that only a church and clergy can "sanctify" these rites of passage, make them legitimate.

I rather see the rites & ceremonies as an opportunity to share our joy and bring the community together (if it's physically possible). There is a lot of bonding that goes on, as well as socializing at these events. These are basic human needs, not self-serving clergy needs, and so that should be the emphasis.

Oz!

07-25-2006, 06:50 PM

Skip

07-25-2006, 06:56 PM

Another idea would be to have days like the church has saints days, only dedicated to teachers, saints etc from many diverse traditions.
All Saints Day? I like the idea, but I think rather than just honor a diversity of "saints" all at one time, dilutes the message each brings. I would almost prefer a series of holidays, each celebrating a different sage or group of sages with a similar message.

For such events honoring people, I think the focus should be on the message, and not the messenger.

For instance a celebration of Ahimsa or World Peace might include acknowledging the contributions of Gandhi, Jainism, Martin Luther King Jr. Then any ceremonies would be tied in with acknowledgement of how important it is for people to actively confront injustice and prejudice with consciousness raising and non-violent protest.

For instance those who wish could participate in a local protest for a different cause each year. So for such a ritual there might be a coordinator, perhaps a committee to oversee the event, but no need for an official "priest" to provide the "sanction", bless the event or act as boss.

Skip

07-25-2006, 07:07 PM

Skip + Bill ..... you seem to be arguing the validity of what is, essentially, the same day of celebration (orginally a festival of lammas, then later christianized into michelmas) ... and popularised into the Harvest Festival among the europeans and Thanksgiving by the america-bound pilgrims

here's a very simplistic site that gives a basic descripton of the modern celebration of this day in three different cultures (USA, Canada and the UK)
http://www.crewsnest.vispa.com/thanksgiving.htm

Personally i'd love to see a resurgance of a public celebration of this day, and i think in these times of crass commercialism.... people forget too easily that it's the basics that power our lives... not the luxuries.

I do think the name "thanksgiving" for such a day is too familiar with US culture and tradition tho' ... wrongly so, but it's their in the mass psyche as an american/christian-only holiday.... but a new, more cross culture name should be easy to come up with :)Actually I think Thanksgiving is one of the least religious holidays, even though the name was thought up by Xtians. It's not like Christmas or Easter, for god's sake. ;)

In fact half the participants in the first American Thanksgiving were NOT xtians, but pagan heathens.

I think ppl need to keep this in mind, and realize that some things are Americanisms, some things are Xtian, but somethings belong to all humanity, that were appropriated by the Church as only by keeping some of the old pagan traditions could they entice so many into the fold.

So it's worthwhile to separate these things in our minds because they are of different origins with different intents.

Thanksgiving is such a neutral word, I'm surprised American fundamentalists haven't Xtianized it more. If so it would be "Thanks to Jesus Day" or some such rot. Like he put the food on the table. Then I could see dumping the name. But you'll be hard pressed to find a better word. After all the only "rites" on that day are "giving thanks" and carving the bird. That's it. No reference to God unless your family likes to say "grace".

BTW, grace is something we should consider as a separate ritual. In fact I think we need to say something similar every time, before lighting up that bong. There's a ritual I feel is really needed. How else can we show our respect for the "herb"?

Oz!

07-25-2006, 08:22 PM

Then I could see dumping the name. But you'll be hard pressed to find a better word. After all the only "rites" on that day are "giving thanks" and carving the bird. That's it.
Then i'd have to agree with bill, it wouldn't interest me in the slightest (apart from maybe a jolly social get-together)... as a non-american, sitting down to a feast and carving a turkey and other of the traditional thanksgiving foodstuffs would have no relevance to me whatsoever. The word Thanksgiving might be ambiguous... but the traditions behind the named celebration certainly aren't.

I belong to a large (paternal) family of practicing druids.... and i suppose like most that are comfortable with their own religion/ideology.... i feel like Thanksgiving is not only not for me.... but i would be reducing a lot by making the harvest celebrations into a sit-down meal with little actual thanks for the harvest.

Good luck with it tho'! :)

Skip

07-25-2006, 08:32 PM

Don't knock it till you've tried it. You don't know what you're missing. And it's not just food. As I said Thanksgiving is NOT an American tradition, but a pagan one adopted by Americans. Quit saying it's an American thing, cause it's not only that.

Oz!, evidently you didn't bother to read all it says on that site, cause you'd see it's also a Canadian and UK tradition as well, that predates the American tradition. After all it WAS the English who sat down with the Native Americans for our first one - obviously they brought their English tradition with them. :
http://www.crewsnest.vispa.com/thanksgivingUK.htm

Note that their references to "corn" do not mean maize, but what we Americans call wheat. Corn is indigenous to the Americas, so it wouldn't have been part of a pre-xtian ceremony in England.

Ah, I re-read your post and think I get what you're saying. You mean that the Americanized version of the harvest isn't sufficient celebration.

Yes, many Americans don't even bother to vocalize their thanks anymore. It's just a party, one which many people don't really like (cause they have to spend time bored with their families), but attend anyway cause it's a family obligation.

But in reality it's what YOU make it to be.

As far as the actual Americanized ceremony, with turkey & trimmings, yeah I don't think that's an absolute necessity, and certainly ppl elsewhere can adapt things to their own liking and local produce.

Indeed I can see a much more spiritually focused celebration. Especially since most people don't need to spend so much time actually harvesting the crops.

But I think a feast is definitely part of it, after all you reap what you sow, and then EAT IT! :)

I suppose those ppl who traditionally have called it Harvest Festival can continue to call it that. But thanking all those involved in the harvest (as Americans supposedly do) and the "Great Spirit" for providing the bounty as Native Americans do, is the minimum acknowledgement of the importance of this celebration.

I think it's also especially important for a community to recognize the importance of such a celebration to thank each other for their support and fellowship.

BTW, as time goes on I'll be introducing a number of adapted Native American ceremonies into the COOL community. I'm hoping you Europeans will keep an open mind and not state out of hand (without even trying), oh, that's an American ceremony, I'm not really interested in it cause it doesn't relate to me.

The point I'm making is that these are HUMAN ceremonies. They have great power and meaning for us, wherever we come from.

The sad thing is, after the first Thanksgiving, things were never the same for native Americans, and their way of life was rarely ever looked at as having anything to offer the Xtian Europeans whose dominating genocidal patriarchial culture soon went on to nearly wipe out all Native Americans.

We have much to learn from that, and from Native Americans, who may hold the key to saving our race and our planet from humanity's self-destruction.

Oz!

07-25-2006, 08:55 PM

Ah, I re-read your post and think I get what you're saying. You mean that the Americanized version of the harvest isn't sufficient celebration.

Yes, many Americans don't even bother to vocalize their thanks anymore. It's just a party, one which many people don't really like (cause they have to spend time bored with their families), but attend anyway cause it's a family obligation.

But in reality it's what YOU make it to be.

As far as the actually Americanized ceremony, with turkey & trimmings, yeah I don't think that's an absolute necessity, and certainly ppl elsewhere can adapt things to their own liking and local produce.
That's it exactly :) If COOL itself is to be an all-embracing community, then i think the emphasis should be place on marking the actual Day (wether this be a public holiday in your own countries... or simply the rise of the harvest moon during autumn, or whenever the countries optimal harvest time is)... how individual members celebrate isn't really important... be it sitting down to a turkey dinner with family and friends.... holding a ceremony/prayer while burning the chaff off the wheat fields.... or simply wandering in the country alone in quiet contemplation while gathering wild fruit and berries.....

Mark the day.... not the tradition :)

Skip

07-25-2006, 09:01 PM

Mark the day.... not the tradition
Yup, and create our OWN traditions (but they are almost always based upon others that preceeded).

I can see how COOL would stamp such things with a different approach and ritual. That is what will make them uniquely ours.

BlackBillBlake

07-26-2006, 12:19 PM

As a Brit I've really no idea how thankgiving came about - I was under the impression it related to something in US history - like we have 5th nov. 'Guy Fawkes Night' - although I can tell you, I don't celebrate it (as they say, he was probably the only man ever to enter parliament with honest intentions:) )

I certainly don't object to a feast of some kind around the thanksgiving time, but probably better to re-label it, also as a vegetarian, Turkey is def. off the menu for me.

With the saints days I meant more like the church dedicates pretty well every day to a particular saint. But dedicating days to a particual message or anything else would be ok I think.

Also we could celebrate the birthdays of sages we incorporate into the Conscious Bible, as Hindus celebrate the appearance days of Krishna and the rest.

SvgGrdnBeauty

07-26-2006, 05:10 PM

If you wanted to keep the traditional harvest feast...just use traditional N. American foods...the ones they taught the settlers to plant: maize, squash (YUM) , and beans

SvgGrdnBeauty

07-26-2006, 05:12 PM

In fact half the participants in the first American Thanksgiving were NOT xtians, but pagan heathens.

I know you were making a point...but please don't use the word heathen...

Skip

07-26-2006, 07:11 PM

I know you were making a point...but please don't use the word heathen...I was pointing out how the English settlers viewed those who so graciously helped them survive their first year in America. Turns out it was that tribe's custom (belief/religion) to share what they had, even if it was very little, with others in need.

Guess that makes them "Godless" savages, heathens, etc. according to Xtianity.

So glad the Xtian white men tried to cure them of that.

You can read a lot more on this subject in Robert Roskind's new book, the Beauty Path. I'll post up links to his books soon.

themnax

07-28-2006, 02:04 PM

actualy the REAL origen of the american 'thanksgiving' feast, what it was origeonaly in celibration of, was extremely creepy. what people think they know about it now was a myth created about a hundred years after the fact. (it was the aniversary of having SLAUGHTERED the village and tribe (men, women, children and infants) of the people who helped them survive origeonaly. this is a matter of historical record though it has been well obscuired and you would have to dig rather deep and diligently to find it. and find it you likely won't at your local public library)

at any rate, celebrating the passing of the seasons and their generosity IS a good thing, and an exciellent opportunity for people to get togather.

=^^=
.../\...

Oz!

07-28-2006, 03:08 PM

I know you were making a point...but please don't use the word heathen...Whyever not? The origin of the word heathen simply means "one who worships on the heather" ..... it was only the christian/roman propaganda that gave the word it's [modern] connotation with "one who is ignorant/barbaric"

I'm proud to be known as a Heathen :)

kitty fabulous

07-28-2006, 03:41 PM

Most of the Pagans I know who work with Northern pantheons actually prefer the term "heathen" to "pagan". Those that work with the Southern pantheons seem to prefer "pagan".

I'm Gaean, and I don't really give a fat damn what people call me.

SvgGrdnBeauty

07-28-2006, 05:51 PM

I just don't like that word...because most of the time its spit out with hatred... that's all...its just a thing...

BlackBillBlake

07-28-2006, 07:28 PM

I just don't like that word...because most of the time its spit out with hatred... that's all...its just a thing...
'Sticks and stones....'

I wouldn't let it worry you too much my friend. It's only a word, and there are far worse words even.
I understood the origin of the word slightly differently from Oz - my understanding has always been that it simply meant originally 'one who lives on a heath'. Hence, I suppose, a rustic type, devoid of the culture of the aristos etc in their mansions, who of course, considered themselves above such riff-raff, and certainly superior in the eyes of God.......
And also I used to live briefly on Hempstead Heath in London (btw - 'Hempstead, because at one time that crop was grown there).
And there's Bob Marley's 'Heathen Man'.....

Oz!

07-28-2006, 08:20 PM

I understood the origin of the word slightly differently from Oz - my understanding has always been that it simply meant originally 'one who lives on a heath'. Hence, I suppose, a rustic type, devoid of the culture of the aristos etc in their mansions, who of course, considered themselves above such riff-raff, and certainly superior in the eyes of God.......
.....I've heard that description too.... and being a good ol' country boy... really like it :)

SvgGrdnBeauty: Heathen is a word i use a lot, and will continue to use where applicable. I can understand your dislike of the word, perfectly understandable as it is often used as a derogatory term, but if I do use it.... you can be assured that it will be as a postive term of description ... not with the negative connotation with which "heathen" is too often associated.

Most of the Pagans I know who work with Northern pantheons actually prefer the term "heathen" to "pagan". Those that work with the Southern pantheons seem to prefer "pagan".That's great info! Given the climate in which heather grows... and the culutral use of the word Heath... most intersting...

Ok, i'm rambling and offering little to the discussion subject of the thread... ignore this one ;)

Skip

07-28-2006, 08:24 PM

Getting back to Thanksgiving, it was also a Native American custom as well. In fact the local natives who join the Pilgrims for the first thanksgiving held six different thanksgiving feasts each year!

For more See:
http://www.ewebtribe.com/NACulture/articles/thanksgiving.html

I recommend ppl from the UK read that article too, because it reveals some interesting facts about those Pilgrims/Puritans who came to the US and their political agenda which was the overthrow of the King of England. They were revolutionaries...

BlackBillBlake

07-28-2006, 10:13 PM

Sorry to change the subject again Skip, but I was wandering - now we've got the COOL Books subforum, can we have COOL Music ? Because music is definitely something which is part of most people's lives and their spirituality..

Skip

07-28-2006, 10:16 PM

Oh yes, music is a central element of our lives and should be a focus of COOL for meditation, celebration and ceremonies. All music is welcome if it fits our theme.

BlackBillBlake

07-28-2006, 11:41 PM

:cool: .

themnax

08-04-2006, 07:43 PM

i think pet rocks could be in here somewhere. i know in this age that may seem trivial. they did when they were popular too.

but the thing is, about bringing people togather, without telling them how or what to think, well that was and is the thing about pet rocks.

i mean anyone can pick up a rock, clean it off, paint it and decorate it and make it look like something. but that's just the point. that it IS something everyone and anyone can do. and trade and appreaciate. whatever else our situation at any time or place might otherwise be.

i just stumbled over this in the nostelgia forum but it occured to me there, that it just might have a place here.

=^^=
.../\...

Skip

08-04-2006, 11:26 PM

Hehe...

My sister has loads of rocks around her house with words carved in them, like peace, harmony, love, etc.

Rocks also make good meditation tools, such as in a Japanese rock garden.

Some people just don't understand rocks at all! They have stored energy over eons of time. Rocks are ALIVE, but we have trouble perceiving that. That's our limitation, not the rocks. If we could see how a rock evolved over time, we would understand it more.

Can you LOVE a rock?

If you realize that the rock IS GOD, just as much as you or I or Jesus, then you'll be enlightened. Then you can love the rock as you love God.