Should This Be Respected As A Religion....

[Warrior]

Isn't it as qualified as any other?

http://www.churchofthesonsofyhvh.org/

[Sage-Phoenix]

Religion or not I have not respect for such blantantly racist err people.

TTFN
Sage

[matthew]

If they physicaly don't hurt me my family or my friends..thay can say what ever shit they like...lots of religeons are just as bad..even the ones with a friendly face...

http://www.churchofspongebob.org/

Give me this any day of the week :)

[the dauer]

A religion is a religion. What's more important is how it influences the way its adherents think, feel, and act.

[Trixie]

I'm going to join with Spongebob...lol, he has so many values we should all adopt in our lives. Innocence, compassion, ..er..ignorance. LOL!!! U just made my day..

[hobhob]

That web site is sure scary!

So is this:www.white.org.uk (http://www.white.org.uk/)

I prefer this:www.libdems.org.uk

[Trixie]

My stomach literally sank when i clicked on that first link...*shudders*...

[hobhob]

me to,its scary how the screen turns red!

[hobhob]

I do hate that religion but it should be respected as one because a religion is what someone belives in about god and that is what it is.

[matthew]

I do hate that religion but it should be respected as one because a religion is what someone belives in about god and that is what it is.Do you mean that because they hide behind christianity (probably the blue eyed blond hair version) that its alright.. Their shit is mindless and they are ABSOLUTE FUCKING BASTARDS....as i said they can say whatever they want ...if they ever hurt anyone thats a diffrent matter....Using a swastica white power and christianity altogether is the lamest thing you can do. I feel sorry for them. But thankfuly they are a tiny minority and will always be that way..just they hurt people ..wich sucks :(

Its not as religeon its just hate wrapped up in another package.

[bluegill]

no different than the extremists in the arab world......bunch of hippocritical facists pigs who use a perverted interpretation to spread their own political message.......or the jerry fallwells or george bush's, or any other political figure who decides to use religion asa capitalization on political ideals.....fuckin sad if you ask me....

[xdianax]

Trixie, I had the same reaction, I thought the link was going to be something silly but my heart was pounding and my stomach sunk when I saw that huge picture on that site. Heh, couldn't you have given a warning :( that site really scared the hell out of me. Just reading about so much hate disguised behind God and the Bible was disguisting, thinking about it makes me want to throw up. Hate is truly a terrible thing.

Namaste,

Diana

[hobhob]

I change my opinion,it should not be respected,it is just a group of people that are filled with hatred,they exspect that God agrees with them but God is not racist or filled with hatred which is what they are.
They are not religious atall!

[xdianax]

The scariest thought for me, is knowing that these people truly and firmly believe these things.

[hobhob]

I wonder what Warrior thinks,i thought that he would have posted by now.

[Warrior]

Do you mean that because they hide behind christianity (probably the blue eyed blond hair version) that its alright.. Their shit is mindless and they are ABSOLUTE FUCKING BASTARDS....as i said they can say whatever they want ...if they ever hurt anyone thats a diffrent matter....Using a swastica white power and christianity altogether is the lamest thing you can do. I feel sorry for them. But thankfuly they are a tiny minority and will always be that way..just they hurt people ..wich sucks :(

Its not as religeon its just hate wrapped up in another package.
Really? When or where have you ever read that that particual Christian group ever hurt any body? Also, a bastard in the Bible is one of mixed race; in society, a person who was born out of wedlock. If it is "mindless" then please tell us all how you came to that conclusion. I assume you are not a "mindless" idiot and so took the time to read and study the teachings of this church - I mean, why else would you bother making a statement such as that?

[xdianax]

Really? When or where have you ever read that that particual Christian group ever hurt any body? Also, a bastard in the Bible is one of mixed race; in society, a person who was born out of wedlock. If it is "mindless" then please tell us all how you came to that conclusion. I assume you are not a "mindless" idiot and so took the time to read and study the teachings of this church - I mean, why else would you bother making a statement such as that?

Warrior, although I cannot speak for Matthew, I am assuming his words were not intended to be analyzed and stripped apart for their inaccurate use. Also, infact their use is really not inappropriate, because as you yourself pointed out, that is what it means in the bible...meaning if he had quoted from the bible your argument might have been valid, but he himself was talking, and simply using a different definition of the word. It seems like a silly thing to scrutinize someone for anyway.

About your mention of his use of the word mindless, I must say I am shocked because these people to me also seem blatently mindless to any rational person. If you are looking for reasons, although that seems unnecessary, then simply click on the link. One good example would be their picture with the caption "Violence solves everything". The slogan is quite mindless, and almost laughable, until you realize that they are serious. At first I, myself was afraid to press the enter button because I was afraid that someone would find out and think I was a nazi or anti-semetic bigot. But anyway, after I did enter, the site presented more ridiculous evidence trying to convince the reader that the holocaust was just a Jewish "scam". This claim also could even be thought of as laughable for its complete ridiculousness, but once again remains a solemn truth since these people actually believe it. Now, the best adjective to describe them might not be mindless, but that is pretty close.

:) Namaste,

Diana

[matthew]

If you are looking for reasons, although that seems unnecessary, then simply click on the link. One good example would be their picture with the caption "Violence solves everything". The slogan is quite mindless, and almost laughable, until you realize that they are serious.

thanks you explained my reasoning better than i could have .... your right .

[Purple_Rhapsody]

That just isn't cool. You wouldn't consider the KKK a religion. And dosen't the Christian religion preach on acceptance and "we are all one" and all that hypocritical BS! This "religion" openly admits they think they are better, while the outward church at least downgrades others behind there backs! True it technically IS a religion... but a very "negative" one and has a few kinks it needs to work out.

[Warrior]

Warrior, although I cannot speak for Matthew, I am assuming his words were not intended to be analyzed and stripped apart for their inaccurate use. Also, infact their use is really not inappropriate, because as you yourself pointed out, that is what it means in the bible...meaning if he had quoted from the bible your argument might have been valid, but he himself was talking, and simply using a different definition of the word. It seems like a silly thing to scrutinize someone for anyway.

About your mention of his use of the word mindless, I must say I am shocked because these people to me also seem blatently mindless to any rational person. If you are looking for reasons, although that seems unnecessary, then simply click on the link. One good example would be their picture with the caption "Violence solves everything". The slogan is quite mindless, and almost laughable, until you realize that they are serious. At first I, myself was afraid to press the enter button because I was afraid that someone would find out and think I was a nazi or anti-semetic bigot. But anyway, after I did enter, the site presented more ridiculous evidence trying to convince the reader that the holocaust was just a Jewish "scam". This claim also could even be thought of as laughable for its complete ridiculousness, but once again remains a solemn truth since these people actually believe it. Now, the best adjective to describe them might not be mindless, but that is pretty close.

:) Namaste,

Diana
At first I, myself was afraid to press the enter button because I was afraid that someone would find out and think I was a nazi or anti-semetic bigot. Why should you fear anything in a "free society"?

Every religion has a hatred of something, they just don't all preach violence. Some secretly do it or admire it, others are willing to act on it. I seriously think that people should go beyond the surface of the site and investigate the guts of it. No, before you ask, I am not affiliated with that site. I respect it and its advocates rights to belive as they do. But I also respect all religions and thier inalianable rights to believe and practice as they choose. I also respect the rights of the people to react to belifs that they do not agree with. I think though that we should first know if our "enimies" are who we perceive them to be or if they are those who argue in defense of our orientations.

[gnrm23]

the klan & the aryan-race nazoids & several other groups use religious trappings to cloak their racist cant...
you really can't stop them, but - you don't hafta, well, hang out with them...
just not my cup of tea, thanks...

[xdianax]

Why should you fear anything in a "free society"?

Well my mother is notorious for turning on my brother's computer when he is at work, and I don't doubt that she would do the same on my computer. All the sites you have visited show on your Address box, so I would be a little uncomfortable if my mother found out.

Every religion has a hatred of something, they just don't all preach violence. Some secretly do it or admire it, others are willing to act on it. I seriously think that people should go beyond the surface of the site and investigate the guts of it. No, before you ask, I am not affiliated with that site. I respect it and its advocates rights to belive as they do. But I also respect all religions and thier inalianable rights to believe and practice as they choose. I also respect the rights of the people to react to belifs that they do not agree with. I think though that we should first know if our "enimies" are who we perceive them to be or if they are those who argue in defense of our orientations.

I did look farther than just the title page of the site, and I couldn't read too far down till I wanted to throw up again. In this country, all religions don't have the right to believe and practice as they choose, because a religion that believes in killing people cannot justify the act by saying it is part of the religion; the people of that religion will still be persecuted.

As part of my own beliefs, I think no sentient beings are my enemies; ;) my--I should say our only enemy is dukkha.

:) Namaste,

Diana

[queenannie]

It's just as bad to hate the devil as it is to be the devil!

religion divides, the spirit unites....

[Random Andy]

Hate, fear, anger. These are the ways of the dark side Obi Wan Kenobi - Star Wars

[BlackHoodedCrow]

And Christianity is safe from evil? If Christians acually peacticed what is said in the bible it would be outlawed:

In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me."

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

I don't see this as a religion that preaches exceptance.

D

[gnrm23]

ummm, all those "kill 'em all" dealios you quoted were from the "old testament" - so why not rail against the jews? - you did specify christians, yes?
there's a lot of wild speechifying & stuff in the "new testament" (& in islam's al quran) but wtf?
when a mob was ready to stone a woman for adultery (were they ready to stone the man she took? i dn't think so!) jesus stopped them by asking who among them had never sinned? let that one be the first to cast a stone... and the crowd melted away...
anyways, nazoids & kkk-ers & such just seem to get into doing dirty work for god a bit too easily, sorry...

[BlackHoodedCrow]

Was Judaism Jesus' religion? So id the Old Testement does not apply to Christians Why Bother puting it in the bible.
I have met MAny Christians who often quote from the old testement. This is an honest question. I was asked to read the bible by a friend. So I did. I asked him about those passages and he could not answer me.
That is why I posted her. I would like to understand in what context those were written and why.

December

[xdianax]

Wow, I have never seen those quotes from the Bible before.

My friend told me that the Jewish God is really a jealous and vengeful one although many don't know it. I guess that is what she meant. She also said that the Muslim God is really a loving one although many times it is not represented as such.

:) In Kindness,

Diana

[the dauer]

And Christianity is safe from evil? If Christians acually peacticed what is said in the bible it would be outlawed:

In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me."

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

I don't see this as a religion that preaches exceptance.

D

I don't have my tanakh with me so I can't quote anything back at you. The first quote deals with the redemption of the first born. All first born, man and beast, go to the priests. The human first born were to be servants. But there's a point later on where it says rather than this, that the first born can be bought back. It's still done today. The first born are bought from the kohanim.

Quote two is dealing with individuals who will not listen to an authority. Like if the court makes a ruling and says someone has to be pay a fine of 50 bucks. But in reality the laws regarding capital punishment are complicated and I'll get to it in a sec.

I believe chronicles is a specific case and not a commandment. I don't even know what the context is so I can't really reply to it.

Kill homosexuals again goes to the laws of capital punishment.

They're dealt with in Deuteronomy mainly. Basically, you need 3 witnesses. They have to see it. They have to try ask what the person's doing. The person has to say it. And then they have to ask them to stop and the person must continue. At this point if they still want to press charges, the case is taken to trial where every attempt is made to stop things. Then in order to finish sentencing the first witness must be willing to personally carry out the penalty. Unless all these happen it's a no go. It's not as elaborate in Deuteronomy but it is present. The talmud expands quite a bit and declares a court with one death penalty in 70 years a bloody court.

[Jozak]

And Christianity is safe from evil? If Christians acually peacticed what is said in the bible it would be outlawed:

In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me."

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

I don't see this as a religion that preaches exceptance.

D
Actually, people who take those verses literally are Fundementalists, usually Protestants, someone like Epiphany who thinks Catholics aren't Christians either. Those types of people who judge like that are hypocrites, and are not Christians, no matter how many times they tell you they are. As you know most likely, I am Catholic, and I always am being challenged by some narrow minded Pentacostal or Southern Baptist. I would never tell someone they are not Christian based on their religion, any of them. Catholics realize times were different in the Old Testament days, that is why we do not interpret Old Testament "literally", becasue of verses like those.

[TrippinBTM]

In short, no, it shouldn't. A religion should get man (and woman) closer to the sacred, to bring peace and love and kindness. This is divisive and hateful, the anti-thesis to religion and spirituality. This isn't religion, it's bigotry hiding behind a thin veneer of false spiritual notions.

[Turn]

Thanks again for getting my ip linked to another white supremcy site.

Yeah it makes the techincal defition for a religon:People belive in it.
And yes these pigs should be round up and tortured/ shot/imprisoned/ celebrated, depending on who your asking

[Burbot]

In response to Black Hooded Crow, yes I am pretty sure Jesus was a Jew, and what I don't get is that with those quotes from the Bible, they seem to contradict all the things that Jesus was supposed to preach...

And about the old Testement...I think (but don't quote me on it) but i think that the Jewish, Muslims, and Christians agree on just about everything up to and including the birth and place of Christ. (Please don't quote me on this)- I think the Jews beleive he was lying about the whole "Son of God" thing, Christians beleive he was the real deal, and Muslims beleive he was a prophet for Allah ( arabic word for God).

I was also watchiong a Biograpgy on A&E about "The Unknown Jesus" and there is no record of Him as a teenager until he was 30 or somethiung like that. So they were trying to figure out where he was....Some think He was in England with the druids, others think He was refered to in the Dead Sea Scrolls and was with a sect of Jewish monks, but i think the most interesting, and what I personally beleive was that in the himilayas, there is a scroll that tells of a boy that came there from the mediteranian to study Bhuddissm and left at the time Jesus would have needed to to return in time to make it back into the Bible. Also his teachings were very similar to Budism....

they aer also similar to the Jewish monk teachings but He was probobly married and they were selibate......

Hope i enightened you......If i made a misteak...PLEASE call me out on it.

[the dauer]

Jews have no indoctrinated beliefs about Jesus. He may or may not have existed as a historical figure. The accounts in the NT are unreliable and even the Catholic Church has confessed to this which is reported here:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christian_Credibility.htm

if that source is unreliably reporting about the Church someobody please let me know.

Basically, he's not important at all in Judaism. Anything that we can understand we do so from history in the same way any rationalist would. His relevance to Judaism is the same as that of Buddha, only historically we have been slaughtered quite a bit in his name and nobody's done that to us in the name of Buddha.

There are countermissionary groups within Judaism that are a reaction to the intense missionizing towards Jews by fundamentalist Christians, especially through groups like Jews4Jesus and Messianic Judaism, which are made up primarily of Christians and were designed to missionize. The countermissionary groups take steps to debunk things said about Jesus and teach uneducated Jews what Jewish theology is and why Jesus has no place in it. They also have the same types of people working for them who help individuals taken in by cults.

That's more than you were asking for, but it puts things into perspective.

[Genesis]

violence is the answer?



this is what they preach? and do they think contorting what jesus stood for, the message of love and peace he was trying to spread to save us from our sins...do they honestly think using jesus' words so haphazardly justifies their anti semetic ways?

is what they are trying to preach not the complete antynom of what jesus stood for?

i hope im picking it up COMPLETELY wrong i really do. i hope that it is not in fact the bible...the "GOOD NEWS"bible they are using to spread such words of hate...i hope they do not think that is what the bible ever stood for. and if they do....i could not respect them. i could not respect their faith.

people should not preach hate. they should not preach violence against and living creature. most of all they should not preach violence and hatred using the very book that bears the words of jesus and the will of the father.


religion as a belief structure stands to teach people tolerance and decency. kindness to our fellow man.



what we do to the least of our brothers we do to jesus and in turn god.to attempt to breed hate and suffering commits an injustice of a spiritual kind against god. such a suffering that should not be allowed. but, love the least of our brothers...

it is our duty to accept that....

but it is not our duty to accept hate...i don't believe it ever should be at least


no man is more then the other....so yes they should be considered a faith...but i do not think they should be respected by any accounts. i don't know if that would be considered a terrible thing in gods eyes not to respect my fellow man but i don't think the frown would be heavy against me if i did not respect them

[Stalkz]

The thing I dont like about white power christians is that they don't seem to realize..... most people in the bible were not white.

[Genesis]

this is true.


that and i thought jesus was a jew?



sorry if this has been discussed already i just looked up the link.:(

[phybre]

Respected? That's your call. It is not written anywhere that all religions deserve equal respect. That's something most Scientologists don't seem to understand. Should it be recognized as a religion? Sure. Recognize it all you want. Should it be legally recognized as a religion? If it fulfills the legal qualifications, sure.

Is it a "real religion", in comparison to Christianity or Islam or Shinto or Football?

Make up your own mind. Was David Koresh qualitatively different from Jesus? What about Shoko Asahara? What about Osama bin Laden? Although Osama's name is now famous, his religious affiliation is practically unknown. For the most part, he is a Wahhabi. That's an ultra-fundamentalist Sunni sect of Islam. Saudi Arabia's royal family is Wahhabi, as well. But the mainstream Wahhabis disown him, saying he's too radical. Now that's really impressive. A Wahhabi calling someone too radical. Heh.

Anyway, before I get off on a tangent, the distinction among "religion", "subsect of an existing religion", and "cult" is an entirely arbitrary one. How much new dogma is necessary before the belief system is "new" ? Is it dependent on the dogma or the organizational structure of the group? Or the culture the group belongs to? Judaism and Islam are surprisingly similar when you get right down to it. They're both Semitic religions, that trace their origins back to Abraham. But they also disagree on many points. But then, Jesuits disagree with Dominicans on many points too, and yet they're both Catholic.

Was Hitler's state religion of swastika worship a real religion, or simply an extremely radical sect of Roman Catholicism? Or both? Or neither?

Most importantly, what difference does it really make?

[Genesis]

well it does make a difference if they're using the bible to preach hate and anti semetic views.

[phybre]

well it does make a difference if they're using the bible to preach hate and anti semetic views.
How does it make a difference?

Have you ever read the Christian bible?

Jesus said: I come not to bring peace, but a sword.

Now let's talk about the crusades. The Spanish inquisition. Let's talk about Christian anti-abortion nutcases shooting doctors in Pensacola with shotguns.

How does it make a difference what one hate group has to say about Christian scripture?

[Genesis]

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."





Yes many people in fact believe the term “sword” and “division” to be literal and quite simplistic in meaning and intent. Therefore people envision a metal sword that is a symbol of violence and that the “division” he spoke of was that of war and strife. Many cultural Christians claim it to be a sentiment of war but the meaning runs deeper then that.





But of course how could that be? jesus did not come to advocate the division of humanity but in actual fact the bringing together of humanity. To think he would advocate such a thing would in actual fact make him a very paradoxical mix indeed.







The statement is one of the most widely used in conjunction with sceptics and critics of the Christian following, placeing the quote along with some seemingly contradictory quotes as regards the bible and the divine origin of god and his everlasting love for all his creations.





Literate scholars and literate Christians say it is a metaphore for the word of truth. This idea can be backed by a quote from the book of revelations that was a vision john had. Conversely there are many references over 200 I believe, to the word sword in the bible and to chose one particular image is somewhat unsubstantiated. Its not a matter of one definition of a word but moreso its presence within a certain case.



the Son of Man... cometh with clouds.. clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle... head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire... feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters...in his right hand [had] seven stars, and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword..."





The forked tongue is supposed to represent truth because it is the one virtue that indeed, though not an act of malice, can cause division amongst the greatest of people. Jesus was the being of truth. With his coming came Great War and strife and he knew it would. It was also believed to be his way of telling people the inevitable that was to come to pass. His words of truth would be a dividing force for some and an excuse for hate but that did not mean he advocated it or asked them to commit to it.





The word sword is more oft then not used to show how easily the bible can be misinterpreted and that like with all writings, certain statements bare symbolism.





If he had not come people would have gone on in sin and guilt undisturbed till the day of doom had come to be and pass. Now, Christ came to get rid of that sin and guilt but then there was subsequent turmoil because men clung to violence and perverted his truth and fought god and the gospel. Christ foresaw this and let it happen but became empathetic and cast a sword upon the earth. The logic behind this to some was that, why leave all perish when it would be better to have division and hostility but save as many people as possible?





Some people respond negatively to the word but it was not his intent but the effect his teachings would have on the people.







Most Christians do not advocate violence. They don’t agree with it but look harshly upon it especially when people do it and “use” religion as an excuse. But all christiansd shouldn’t be lumped into one category of agreeing with violence.





Not all are extremists…







We could talk about the crusades….but then again I am not a crusador in those terms nor am i familiar with it in any great detail.



We could talk about the Spanish inquisition but all i could add is that it had something to do with religion.





We could talk anti abortion nutcases I too disagree with. And then follow on with another extremist level of how they killed a human being for doing their job.



We could sit all day and discuss how much we both find detestable the acts of men. And I think after talking in circles we would both find we share the same level of disgust in people who loose a sense of humanity and in that loss take the most precious gist awarded us. Life.







We could talk about murder and violence in those aforementioned contexts but what relevance has that to Christianity as a whole? Unless you’re hinting that Christians as a unit strive to hurt and kill those of a different path?



In which case that’s just not completely true.


I believe it would make a difference when the words of the bible are perverted to take a role of hate and justification of hate …. But hey….maybe im just one of those inane people who thought the bible was supposed to be a symbol of goodness and love. There’s a couple of us cooks around these days.


i joke...


its just me.

[the dauer]

I think he's just saying that it's not hard to squeeze antisemitism from the NT. This is an essay that shows all of the occasions of antisemitism, potential antisemitism or things with the potential to provoke antisemtism, book by book:

http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html

I'm not saying that modern Christianity is antisemitic. On the contrary, I've never met an antisemitic Christian in person. Most Christians are decent, honest people. But for those who would use them, the sources are there for such hate.