We're not a GROUP, We're a FAMILY !!!

[TradinBill]

ATTENTION U.S.F.S.
We are not a Group....We are a Family. So until you require a "Family Use" permit.... Please halt the Harassment.

Let 'em know we're "A Family" !!!!


http://members.tripod.com/ohhotrod/rainbow/rainbow.html


Tradin' Bill


http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/1war.jpg

[soaringeagle]

the permit regs are not specific, they are for a noncommercial group
does barter & giving count as a commercial transaction?
& shutup fattass..heeheehee

[Lis]

I understand your stance, but in-fact you are not all related in the terms of today's understanding so you are technically an otherwise "group of people" why doesn't someone just bite the bullet and sign the stupid thing and avoid all this hassle! Seriously, if I were involved with this event, I would print and sign my legal name and give them their silly permit so that all the harrassment would just end. period. done. now let's enjoy why we came here and stop talking to cops and people who aren't interested in the gathering!

[Normlzach]

Then the MAN wins, I personally don't like it when the MAN wins

[Normlzach]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

- First Amendment to the US Constitution

[Bhumi47]

And wait til you get the 750,000 bill from the forest service...

You and your grandchildren can pay it for the next 75 years..

Personally, You don't know anything do you.

In Fact, i would bet that the Lizard has never even been to a gathering.

Who cares what you think anyway

Babylon Beeeotch.

HA HA
Boomer

[soaringeagle]

I understand your stance, but in-fact you are not all related in the terms of today's understanding so you are technically an otherwise "group of people" why doesn't someone just bite the bullet and sign the stupid thing and avoid all this hassle! Seriously, if I were involved with this event, I would print and sign my legal name and give them their silly permit so that all the harrassment would just end. period. done. now let's enjoy why we came here and stop talking to cops and people who aren't interested in the gathering! you are 1 person willing to put yourself on the line for 30000 others? & theyre actions? every injury illness misdead then is on your head, you will be legaly responcible for every single person theres actions as well as medical bills, and, also you could be stuck with the bill for the police, & fs incident team & much more
not to mention, you will be saying to the government here let me sign your permission slip to trash the bill of rights
i know you mean well, but this is not an issue we can budge on, not only for purselves, but for ebvery person in the country who depend on that bill of rights to keep this country from going to hell

[wild_juniper]

Thank you SoaringEaGle, I wish everyone could understand that concept too. By the way, do you yell out free rainbow hugs when your HOME?

[soaringeagle]

nope thats not me..i dont advertise...dont need to

[WanderingturnupII]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."



- First Amendment to the US Constitution




Silly arguement, since US v Kalb, et al. If you support the Constitution, you gotta support this part too:


Article 3 - The Judicial Branch

Section 1 - Judicial Powers

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#ORDAIN) and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

[Lis]

you are 1 person willing to put yourself on the line for 30000 others? & theyre actions? every injury illness misdead then is on your head, you will be legaly responcible for every single person theres actions as well as medical bills, and, also you could be stuck with the bill for the police, & fs incident team & much more
not to mention, you will be saying to the government here let me sign your permission slip to trash the bill of rights
i know you mean well, but this is not an issue we can budge on, not only for purselves, but for ebvery person in the country who depend on that bill of rights to keep this country from going to hell

I've signed a lot of contracts in my life. Why don't you just add a paragraph about how you are complying with the permit, but you personally will not be held responsible for the actions of others. If they don't like it, they can make everyone sign one. Sounds to me like one permit, per group. I just see you guys losing by not having the true experience you are seeking over a silly piece of paper. What are they going to do trash your credit? so get someone out of the 30000 who already had bad credit and doesn't care. Or hey sign a fake name? In the research I have done in the last couple of days that in gatherings past someone usually just signs the permit and then things calm down with the forrest service and everybody wins.

Good for you for having a cause, it's just a shame that it is inturrupting the purpose of why you are here in the first place.

[Gyva02]

no one gets it... one by one they take away your rights and you sit there with a smile, they are my goverment they must know whats good for me....

Its a sad sad thing.....



Mike...

[lostalot]

An excerpt from: http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/nfs-regs/fs-training.html

The [new group] rule requires a permit for noncommercial group uses of National Forest System lands. Under the rule, a "group use" is an activity that involves a group of 75 or more people, either as participants or spectators. "Noncommercial" is any use or activity where an entry or participation fee is not charged, and the primary purpose is not the sale of a good or service.
-----------
What makes the permit unnecessary are the facts that
-no campsite has more than 75 people anywhere at the gathering
-there is no organization in charge (therefore, who signs?)
-and no money is exchanged.

That aside... I don't care if a permit is signed or not - I'm going. I am an individual that does not need permission to borrow what nature has generously provided.

I know of people that won't go if a permit is signed and all I had to say was, "Then the man has won. That was their intent all along".

peace, nomad

[hippiehillbilly]

permits an back door deals been goin on long time. thats irrelavent as well.. the shit that gos down every year is just that,.. but i love my family who sits there an plays cat an mouse..

the family i know is only defending there home and trying to get family in..

love n light

[lostalot]

Remember to love yourself.

Impeach Bush

BUT

[hippiehillbilly]

impeach?? hehhehe gotta get outta the woods an into babylon to do that dont ya???




heehhehehehehhehehhe,,..

we shall be there in spirit,...

we love you..

[Lis]

no one gets it... one by one they take away your rights and you sit there with a smile, they are my goverment they must know whats good for me....

Its a sad sad thing.....



Mike...

No I dont' belive everything the government does is automatically right. I think it's a sad thing that you let a stupid, unconstitutional, therefore uninforcable permit stand in your way. You guys would rather push past road blocks and have guns drawn and rocks thrown at your "peaceful gathering"

If it weren't for government protecting the forests, than any multi-millionare could buy up the land and develop it to his desire. Make it private land. Just because it's public land doesn't mean it doesn't have to be maintained and protected. I belive that you guys take good care of the forest and leave it in better condition than when you arrived, but there is still an organization who supplies things like 10 dumpsters that need to be emptied daily during your event, and they have the right to plan ahead and know what and how many to expect for this "un-organized" event. Someone picked the date. Someone suggested the location. Someone came and scouted it out... It's not as if you are all summoned super-naturally every year.

I think it's great good for you. Don't let the politics get in your way. Be bigger than "the man"

[soaringeagle]

sorry sis, we do not have 10 dumpsters that need emptying every day..we do all that ourselvesalways have always will & we carry our own trash out at least 100 miles from the site in all directions to minimize impact on local recycling & landfils
additionaly, there is no ghroup of over 75 to be a part of you go as 1 person, in a vehicle with maybe 10, maybe camp in a group of 20
but you are still only 1 person acting as 1 person
if you say accidently walk up on a kkk ralley, you are in the same place as 1000 kkk folks, does that make you a part of the kkk & therefore respomcible for everything they say or do?

[hippiehillbilly]

lets remember there was a nazi camp at last years gathering.. :p

love n light..

[hippiestead]

I've signed a lot of contracts in my life. Why don't you just add a paragraph about how you are complying with the permit, but you personally will not be held responsible for the actions of others. If they don't like it, they can make everyone sign one. Sounds to me like one permit, per group. I just see you guys losing by not having the true experience you are seeking over a silly piece of paper. What are they going to do trash your credit? so get someone out of the 30000 who already had bad credit and doesn't care. Or hey sign a fake name? In the research I have done in the last couple of days that in gatherings past someone usually just signs the permit and then things calm down with the forrest service and everybody wins.

Good for you for having a cause, it's just a shame that it is inturrupting the purpose of why you are here in the first place.
Lis, you really need to do some background study on this issue. The FS will not allow anyone to sign a permit being responsible for only themselves, it's been tried; permit applications that do not encompass the Rainbow Family as a whole are not accepted; No permits for individuals (who by the regulations cited are not required to have a permit), No permits filed by specific kitchens; the FS won't budge on these issues despite the Rainbow Family's cooperation on other requirements that the FS has placed on the Rainbow Family (such as requiring certain numbers of latrines built to FS specifications)

Study the whole issue; then come back & tell us who is being unreasonable

(ps. what exactly is your definition of the 'purpose' of a Rainbow Gathering? If you check previous threads, you will find that the 'purpose' is many things to many people. If the Prayer for Peace is your definition of the 'purpose'; the lack of a FS permit will not stop that; those that come for the Prayer will pray even if they have to take tickets, even if they have to circle in the middle of a major roadway; the Prayer will happen!)

[busmama]

In Fl a year or so ago the permit was open to be signed by anyone who wished to sign. I think that everyone who can should sign the permit. If the rainbow is about personal responsibility, then take responsibility.

And while maybe not all the the FS and LEO's care about the forest, there are many more who are wonderful people and love the land as much as we do. Ever seen an leo cry as she told you about rounding up the dogs and having to shoot them because there was no more room at the pound? I have. Not all are afraid of hugs, some hug back. Some come out and take the time to teach the kids what some of the plants can be used for. Some are jerks who just as soon see us all in jail and our kids taken away.

We can argue all we want, but the permit seems to get signed every year. If they can't find someone to do it voluntarily, they will coerce and threaten until someone gives in.

[hippiestead]

It's so very hard for us to have sympathy for the FS & LEOs (especially the LEOs) when they held a Glok 9 at JuJu's head because the LEOs wanted the right to sexually harrass a sister...

If the LEOs are allowed to get away with the harrassment & threats, they will just continue to do so; if not about permits, then another issue will be found.

Why don't you go sign the permit Busmama; oops, can't do that because they already denied the permit that was signed for this site. Well, you can sign the permit for the site where the LEOs want the Gathering to be & when they run off the clean up crew, you can pay for the federallly approved clean up crew! The responsiblity thing is just a crock; what they really want is CONTROL!!!!!

[busmama]

By your reasoning then I should hate all rainbows because at one gathering a brother tryed to pull me into the woods at knife point.Oh I know he wasn't rainbow huh? People are peole and some Leo's are asses, some aren't. I think that the permit is quite a violation, but all this arguing isn't helping. If you really want to stop this permit shit you need to fight all year round for changes in the laws. Not just go into the woods and fight them then. You need to fight it at the federal level, write your congressperson, but don't have bad vibes for those of who do not want to break laws, or worse are threatened with harm and seperation from children, family, gear ect.. if the permit isn't signed. I never hear of anyone fighting the permit any other time of the year. In fact, I think I will go send a letter to both my congressman and both of my Senators right now. Of course since I live in a nasty republican state I am not sure it will do any good. Maybe you should organize something to change the laws.
I find it hard to believe that anyone threw rocks or sticks at leo's, but whose word do you think they will believe?

[hippiestead]

Well of course they'll believe the LEOs; we went to court over the incident mentioned & the judge believed the LEOS.

The problem here Busmama, is that people are being threatened, are being harrassed and if parents signed a permit to keep their child(ren) from the trama of separation, then we wouldn't hold any grudges; we really don't hold grudges against permit signers anyway; like we said before, it's a control game & they control the Family as much as they can with these threats. ('They' is more of an entity as opposed to a person) How long do 'We' as a Family let this go on, how far do we let them take it? Permits today, Porta-potties tomorrow (& a permit fee to cover the cost of the LEOs)

Most of the government is useless these days, shepards leading sheep into protective little states of mind. Nearly all the legal routes concerning the constitutional vaildity of the permit have been traveled. There are Rainbow lawyers working on this year round every year since the permit reg before it was drafted, then put into place in 1996; every year it becomes more difficult and every year the LEO presence has become more disturbing. Sure, there are some nice LEOs; but if the guys at the top of the chain were actually interested in working with us, then why don't they form the management teams with people who understand & respect the many aspects of Rainbow?

Sending letters is good, sometimes it helps & sometimes it doesn't but at least it's doing something. Gathering regardless of permits being signed or not is good too, if the folks in CO right now hold their ground & refuse to move the Gathering maybe it will be enough to change the permit regs or at least enough to get them to listen.


Oh & sis, we're not sure how you get the hate thing, never said anything about hate; more of a once bitten twice shy thing. And as a parent how would you feel if your 6-yr old witnessed a gun to his unarmed father's head?

But yea, arguing doesn't help, we just get touchy about the permit.

[nutznfl]

Personally, I go to gather with my friends and family and there arent
75 of us in our camp !!!
I will sign no permit..........

dont have any preferance if someone wants to take that responsibility, Go head on with it....

[drumminmama]

wondering, the forests here are of good size. How far apart do the camps need to be to become separate in the eyes of the law groups?
a mile? less? more?


I do give 'em kudos for shutting the motorized trails down through Aug 20 (which kind of makes it look like they were expecting all of us, eh?) to minimize hasles. (per Denver Post article last week)

[dilligaf]

wondering, the forests here are of good size. How far apart do the camps need to be to become separate in the eyes of the law groups?
a mile? less? more?

we had that conversation last year at one or more of the gatherings,,,,,, never have found a viable answer in our search,,,,, wonder if we would be looked at weird if we stopped in to one our local headquarters n asked?... :)

[hippiehillbilly]

Shit,, ya know the answer to that,, it would be a big duh huh??


an then they would make there rules up as they went..