The Atheism thread

[seamonster66]

Do you ever think complete atheism is absolutely impossible?

This thread was originally part of this one
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167543

[daisymae]

I don't think anyone can absolutely know what happens after we die, because we would have to die to find out.

I know some people have near-death experiences or die for a few minutes and get brought back, but I take their stories the same way I take stories about alien abduction....;) with a HUGE grain of salt...

There are obvious forces of nature at work, because we can see them in the form of storms, tsunamis, tornadoes, etc...but I don't believe they have an agenda. Certainly not expectations of "sinless souls".

This is a very interesting topic.

[Samhain]

I don't think anyone can absolutely know what happens after we die, because we would have to die to find out.

I know some people have near-death experiences or die for a few minutes and get brought back, but I take their stories the same way I take stories about alien abduction....;) with a HUGE grain of salt...

There are obvious forces of nature at work, because we can see them in the form of storms, tsunamis, tornadoes, etc...but I don't believe they have an agenda. Certainly not expectations of "sinless souls".

This is a very interesting topic.
so would you class yourself as an athiest?
S

[daisymae]

More of an agnostic, I'd say. I just don't know what is out there.

I don't believe in "God" as written in the Christian bible, though.

[Samhain]

More of an agnostic, I'd say. I just don't know what is out there.

I don't believe in "God" as written in the Christian bible, though.
can you define the difference for us?
S

[daisymae]

I didn't know there would be a quiz...:D

Without looking up a definition...an atheist believes in nothing spiritual at all and an agnostic is unsure.

[Samhain]

I didn't know there would be a quiz...:D

Without looking up a definition...an atheist believes in nothing spiritual at all and an agnostic is unsure.
you should know me by now- I'm hard work.
thanks for explaining by the way!
Do you ever think complete atheism is absolutely impossible?

Oh Gary if we accept that this defines atheism, why would then complete atheism be impossible?
S

[daisymae]

Well, we could argue that in order to have "complete atheism", one would have to be sure nothing spiritual existed....and no one can be. They can only believe, right?

[Samhain]

Well, we could argue that in order to have "complete atheism", one would have to be sure nothing spiritual existed....and no one can be. They can only believe, right?
I don't think i would agree with that, as I think its possible not to believe in god, but still be spiritual
S

[daisymae]

I agree, but isn't seamonster talking about believing nothing?

He needs to get his butt in this thread and explain himself so we can have a proper discussion..:D

[seamonster66]

right, I think it seems impossible that there is nothing that started the unvierse, the world, the seed of life. When people say they are atheists, i have no idea how they could think that there is nothing else out there. I don't believe it is the traditional "god" but we just didn't evolve out of nothing, eyes weren't able to just form and start seeing.

It seems like a form of rebellion really, people have a religion forced down their throat, so they go the other direction and believe there is absolutly nothing, when that is physically impossible

[Samhain]

right, I think it seems impossible that there is nothing that started the unvierse, the world, the seed of life. When people say they are atheists, i have no idea how they could think that there is nothing else out there. I don't believe it is the traditional "god" but we just didn't evolve out of nothing, eyes weren't able to just form and start seeing.

It seems like a form of rebellion really, people have a religion forced down their throat, so they go the other direction and believe there is absolutly nothing, when that is physically impossible
it feels fine that someone would believe that and far more sensible than some religious beliefs that people have, however even if a person believes theres nothing after they die, it doesn't mean that they are totally void of spirituality and can't find any spiritual value in life
S

[seamonster66]

right, I'm not making guesses, other than a force/entity/alien exists who started this, it is absolutely impossible that its completely random...I just don't understand where people like that are coming from, other than a place of knee jerk rebellion

after we die, I'm not sure, as no one should be

[seamonster66]

ps I've seen ghosts, that alone proves to me that there is far more going on than dick cheney probably thinks

[Samhain]

Gary I think that some people have a geniune belief that there is nothing that is just as sure to them as a belief in the goddess is to me, I think its more than rebilion, but i guess we need an athiest to give us a view of their beliefs, I am not one so can't speak from their point of view
S

[seamonster66]

and I'm asking them how there can possibly be nothing? 2 + 2 =4, its just seems well, retarded to think that there is abolutely nothing, what could possibly cause one to think that? We don't understand so much, what is this planet, universe, life.......how did it happen if nothing we don't comprehend/higher force doesn;t exist, thats just not common sense

[Samhain]

for me its just another respectable option, I might not agree but I don't have any problem with other people holding beliefs like that
S

[seamonster66]

I don't have a problem with it, it just is impossible, I'll be friends with whoever i like regardless

[Samhain]

ps I've seen ghosts, that alone proves to me that there is far more going on than dick cheney probably thinks
I think philosophy is the one area that people shouldn't argue in rights and wrongs.
ok 4 people see a ghost
one person says it has to be a trick of the light because there is no after life
one says ghosts are dead people simple as that
another says its an evil demon, because all the saved souls are in heaven
and the last person says they saw an angel

if i say one is right I belittle the views of the other 3.
the goddess is very real to me, I have a relationship with her, but other people see it differently.
I think its possible for all four people to see the truth, because its their truth, and because its their truth it doesn't have to be our truth
S

[Wond'ringAloud]

I was raised Christian, but for many years considered myself Atheist, now I'm not quite sure how I'd class myself. I don't believe in any 'god' as such, but find myself believing more and more in the Earth as a seperate entity. I've always had a strong affinity with nature, and it grieves me to see how we sorely abuse her precious resources. So, just my thoughts, but when I see the natural disasters occurring, I wonder could the Earth be getting her on back on us. When these things happen the tendency is to blame God, and then pray to Him for help, but what if the Earth was a thinking 'being'? Well, you probably I'm crazy, but it's just my musings.

[seamonster66]

makes sense to me

The only people i don't agree with are the ones that know for sure the keys to the universe, and the ones who think our brains and bodies and perception appeared one day out of nothingness with no starting force

[rg paddler]

you've seen ghosts?

[Samhain]

I was raised Christian, but for many years considered myself Atheist, now I'm not quite sure how I'd class myself. I don't believe in any 'god' as such, but find myself believing more and more in the Earth as a seperate entity. I've always had a strong affinity with nature, and it grieves me to see how we sorely abuse her precious resources. So, just my thoughts, but when I see the natural disasters occurring, I wonder could the Earth be getting her on back on us. When these things happen the tendency is to blame God, and then pray to Him for help, but what if the Earth was a thinking 'being'? Well, you probably I'm crazy, but it's just my musings.
there is a name for this belief, i believe its called the gaia principle and you are certainly not the only person who believes the earth as a conciousness
S

[Lying in a field]

Complete Atheism is as faith based as any religion.

[Samhain]

Complete Atheism is as faith based as any religion.
I agree with this point of view, do you know anything about the subject, cause I think it would be great if someone posted something about what Atheism is about
S

[Crosslight]

.............(ô_ô)........yes

.............(ò_ó).........no

.............(ó_ò).........maybe

[Kujo]

Well, we could argue that in order to have "complete atheism", one would have to be sure nothing spiritual existed....and no one can be. They can only believe, right?I totally agree with this statement. Non-believing is just as strong as believing. I go for experience. I have not experienced death, god, what's out there in another world other than this one. I do not call myself athiest. I have recently chosen the word agnostic over any others simply because I don't know what's out there. I prefer no labels at all really. I am who I am. But I'm not entirely without spirituality. I notice things, whether coincidence or not. But that doesn't mean that I believe in anything. Believing or not is out of the question.

[Kujo]

I've always had a strong affinity with nature, and it grieves me to see how we sorely abuse her precious resources. So, just my thoughts, but when I see the natural disasters occurring, I wonder could the Earth be getting her on back on us. When these things happen the tendency is to blame God, and then pray to Him for help, but what if the Earth was a thinking 'being'? Well, you probably I'm crazy, but it's just my musings.I don't think you're crazy. I think this is a nice theory. I feel this has to do with cause and effect. Each person has a strong problem with responsibility. What if mother earth was just showing us all the effects we've caused?

[fritz]

Of course, science has lots of discoveries to make yet. I'm definetly a Darwin fan..
I've seen so much nasty shit in my short existence that IF there was some master designer..I'd want to see the sadist pay...Worst absentee landlord ever, bar none.
I cannot believe it. It's a myth, just like safety.
Personally, I can't pay any homage to anything more than mom. Earth. Mother nature, she rocks out the hardest.
The afterlife insurance policy scares me. I simply feel we should not live for any life than this one. Too many attrocities for religion. How much history do we need behind us for everyone to see it?
Anyways, I feel spiritual in my love of nature.
Art is spiritual to me, be it music, brushstroke, or written word. IMHO it's as close to nirvana as we ever get in human expression.
(...oops, I left out sex..) ;)

[HikerHauk]

If we take Atheism as another kind of religion, we can avoid many unnecessary quarrels.