a new color

[Daniel Herring]

I've always had trouble sleeping. In my teens, a strange experience often occurred just before sleep. As I lay on my back with eyes closed, I could feel myself spinning backward, head over heel, or perhaps I should say, heel over head. Then I would feel myself float up to the ceiling. I could sense it just before my face. A new color would occur to me, eyes still shut, it was something like sandlewood, but it had a texture like an egg carton. The wierd thing is, that with my eyes closed, I did not see the color so much as smell it.

[Nalencer]

You can smell color?! Imagine the potential if you taught this skill to the blind!

[Daniel Herring]

Had I had a mentor in my youth, someone who recognized what was inside me, and trained me, I might have a skill today. Alas! What might have been is relegated to a short thread in the 'wierd' forum.

[Lying in a field]

A color can not have a texture.

I sincerely doubt your intelligence.

[Daniel Herring]

Doubt what you will.

Your doubt changes not a thing.

This is, after all, the wierd forum - take your doubts to the Christian forum, where doubting is all the rage.

:)

[lost in smoke]

why cant colour have texture? it can have lots of thing to a synasthesiest (pardon spelling)!!!

[Lying in a field]

If you want to change the english language yes.

What the man saw was not a new colour, but what he assumed to be a new colour, with a texture like an egg carton.

If a colour has a texture, then it is no longer a colour but a variety of colours. This is obvious.

[Death]

there are no new colors

color is created by frequency numbers. and if we go higher than red the light is no longer visible, if we go lower than blue, the light is no longer visible. in between those two frequency ranges are all the colors of the visible spectrum, or rainbow.


in order to invent a new color, you would have to invent a new number somehow.

[Daniel Herring]

How dry, and one-dimensional your thinking is, death - oh but wait - I did say my eyes were closed.

:)

[Lying in a field]

Actually...I cannot speak for death, but I have the intelligence to see where you're coming from. Unfortunately what you have proposed is not a venture into a realm of cosmic thought but a moronic perversion of terms and language. Give me something truly imaginative and objective and not "Its a new colour because I say it is" and I might not regard you as an idiot.

[Daniel Herring]

Why do you seek to scorn and criticize?

Critics rarely believe anything - whatever you give them is only fodder for further criticizm.

As far as giving you anything: I owe you nothing.

Not to mention that "imaginative" and "objective" are often found on opposing sides of the court.

:)

[Lying in a field]

The destruction of pre-conceived notions about reality holds far greater virtues than the continual justification of this pathetic fantasy. Give me quantum physics, give me fiction, give me destruction of the ego, give me childlike innocence...

....but that you saw a "new" colour that was like sandalwood with a texture of egg carton?

Please grow up :(

On my use of the word "objectivity", you're right. That was my bad.

[Daniel Herring]

Dude - free speech is as free for me as it is for you.

You demand so much.

But what have you given?

Put an offering on the wierd forum alter.

:)

[Lying in a field]

Have you been denied your right to free speech?
Am I not expressing according to MY right to free speech?

Please stop, you're killing me :(

I only HOPE that you show us all the common courtesy of using God's gift of intelligence. What you perceive that I demand is in your court!

[TimeForChange]

Daniel, stop you're just encouraging it.....or keep going. It is fun to watch.

[tumbledownDNA]

A color can not have a texture.

I sincerely doubt your intelligence.
??? it is entirely possible to experience a color as a different sense than sight, clinically its called synysthesia. in fact, there are so many possibilities and realms of experience the brain can produce outside of our normal awareness, it is impossible to objectively measure them yet. he experienced what he experienced and he only has the familiar senses of touch and sight and smell etc. to draw on when trying to relate, when in truth the experience was just a feeling like any normal feeling but just very unusual, and it occured before sleep, most likely in the hypnogogic state when the brain is acting very unusual (look it up). i don't know how you can judge someone's intelligence based on what they have felt.

[tumbledownDNA]

Actually...I cannot speak for death, but I have the intelligence to see where you're coming from. Unfortunately what you have proposed is not a venture into a realm of cosmic thought but a moronic perversion of terms and language. Give me something truly imaginative and objective and not "Its a new colour because I say it is" and I might not regard you as an idiot.
damn man i didn't even see that one. wtf? imaginative and objective? imagination is the opposite of the rational, objective mind. he's not a poet, he used the best objective words he could find. i had a very intense psychedelic experience once where i remember something that had a scooby doo feel to it. i can't explain it at all but thats what sticks out in my mind is a scooby doo feeling. anything is possible man, and when you insult someone's intelligence because they feel they experienced something that you haven't, you limit and discourage those possibilities for yourself and others. lighten up man

[Daniel Herring]

Thank you, tumbledownDNA, not so much for standing in the breech, but as being worthy of such open forums.

:)

[StonerBill]

the mind works on relations. the mind is not based on what IS and what ISNT, it is based on what SEEMS, and what REMINDS of.

lying in a field is trying to seem smart, and does bring up some logical errors in his opponent, but the issues here all come down to understanding not only what colour is, but what it means when someone tries to explain an experience. his logic fails to consider the fact that humans (including himself, as we can see by his arguements) are not based on what is and isnt but on what things seem as to their best ability or desire to discern.

it might seem as though colour cant have texture, or else it would in fact be multiple colours, but what does it mean when someone reports that a colour has a texture? it means that the experience they percieved left a link in their mind not only to a vague hue but other feelings, which only the person who felt them could comment on specifically, feelings that relate to similar psychological responses as the word 'texture' which was used.

[wonderboy]

exactly... in order to describe, you have to describe using the sometimes lousy constraints of language and interrelation.

well put bill.

[lost in smoke]

why the hell dont you guys just accept wot he is saying rather than dismiss it. dont people understand that he is simply telling you an experience he had rather than saying "i had this experience, so im opening this thread so anyone who doesnt feel secure enough to aknowledge something that lies beyond their comfortable reality can tell me im completely wrong" ?

[StingingPistol]

Are you sure you were/are completely sober? :confused:

Must've been cool.

[Moving_cloud]

We are so trained to divide, judge and measure and put things into terms ... to put the mantle of the known around that which is unknown ... yet we ourselves are as unknown.

What if we are all equipped with sense organs besides eyes, ears, tongue, nose and skin ... which help us to perceive more whole rather than more divided ... where the senses we refer to in daily life just impart they are not left out, but involved.

Even the egg carton is part of mystery ... its own universe woven of a million colours, sounds, smells and subtle texture, and all is connected.

I think we all need to grow up ... which is wonderful, too.

[themnax]

there are no new colors

color is created by frequency numbers. and if we go higher than red the light is no longer visible, if we go lower than blue, the light is no longer visible. in between those two frequency ranges are all the colors of the visible spectrum, or rainbow.


in order to invent a new color, you would have to invent a new number somehow.

this is one of those six blind men and the elephant kind of things. the peramiter of color is indeed the freequency of light energy uniquely, but our human senses they act upon are not the only senses or with the only range of them it is possible of living organizms to have. it is quite possible for life forms to develop that have far different ranges of 'vission' well into and 'beyond' both the infrared and ultraviolet 'ends' of our specturms. and just as some people can hear a greater and lesser range of audible sound freequencies, it is not inconceivable to have a greater and lesser rainge in the vissible spectrum as well.

this wouldn't exactly make a 'color' 'new' however, just unfamiliar to our normal visual rainge.

it is quite probable that what IS being refered to is indeed something other then COLOR as such. far from this narrowing our universe, accapting that there are more and other peramiters then we are familiar with, if anything broadens it, while deceiving ourselves as to the nature of those with which we are, does nothing of the sort.

a different peramiter, other then color, with the word "color" being merely a simplistic way to describe a range of possibility unfamiliar, and possibly unaccepted, by the mind attempting to describe it.

texture is by far NOT the only possibility. if anything diversity, even of peramiters, is effectively limitless. more so then the range of possibilities within any single one.

metamarism is an effect that is measurable and real. it does not create 'new colors' but is the way different kinds of light effect the way colors on different textures appear to the eye.

so color is color and only color, but what is perceived as color, can indeed encompass a great deal else and more. a larger and more complex context then a few simple absolutes. what is an absolute is that unless you limit the meaning of a word and how you use it, then that word, by then being able to mean almost anything, thus becomes meaningless.

but the simple minded with a limited vocabulary can still see and witness what they have inadiquite words to discribe and there is no lack of validity to their doing so. paget to the contrary, experience is NOT limited by verbal vocabulary, only the ability to express and shaire it verbaly is.

and even the most intelligent of us, are still only finite in our ability to express observations of a universe that is far less limited then ourselves.

=^^=
.../\...

[ChinaCatSunflower02]

yeah i don't get why people are so closed minded either. i heard you can smell colors while on lsd.

[thecrowing86]

^ That is true, with almost all psychedelics

[verseau_miracle]

If you want to change the english language yes.

What the man saw was not a new colour, but what he assumed to be a new colour, with a texture like an egg carton.

If a colour has a texture, then it is no longer a colour but a variety of colours. This is obvious. All colours are a variety of colours.

[Lying in a field]

All colours are a variety of colours.
Of course. But they are combined. A colour with a texture is in fact separated colours.

It seems in everyone's attack of my own admittedly harsh attack, people are missing a few basic points.

I am not trying to sound smart, I am not trying to dictate what is real and what is not. I am simply warning against one's own tendency to assert almost assuredly that they have experienced something entirely new when they have NO way at all of measuring it. What I guess I should have done is given the benefit of the doubt, but I think I should be offered the same.

Also, as stoner bill says, I have pointed out some extreme flaws in Daniel's logic and he has shown absolutely no desire to acknolwedge it. I think its safe to call "stupid" here. If you want to say the same for me, go back and read my posts carefully.

[Daniel Herring]

Lying, I offered a wierd experience in the wierd forum. It had nothing to do with logic. You have not attacked logic, you have attack me. You have attcked my nature; my freedom to express myself in my own terms; my character and personality. And I must add, you have no way of measuring, or guaging who or what I am. Your tendency to make unwarranted assertions has angered some decent folk on this forum, and you have drawn fire from them. You have not hurt or troubled me, for I remain the same.

:)

[Cosmic Butterfly]

The destruction of pre-conceived notions about reality holds far greater virtues than the continual justification of this pathetic fantasy. Give me quantum physics, give me fiction, give me destruction of the ego, give me childlike innocence...

....but that you saw a "new" colour that was like sandalwood with a texture of egg carton?

Please grow up :(

On my use of the word "objectivity", you're right. That was my bad.
Shut up.

[Cosmic Butterfly]

I've always had trouble sleeping. In my teens, a strange experience often occurred just before sleep. As I lay on my back with eyes closed, I could feel myself spinning backward, head over heel, or perhaps I should say, heel over head. Then I would feel myself float up to the ceiling. I could sense it just before my face. A new color would occur to me, eyes still shut, it was something like sandlewood, but it had a texture like an egg carton. The wierd thing is, that with my eyes closed, I did not see the color so much as smell it.
Hope this helps some.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaesthesia

"Synaesthesia (also spelt synæsthesia, synesthesia); from the Greek (syn-) “union,” and (aesthesis) “sensation,” is the neurological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurological) mixing of the senses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense). A synaesthete may, for example, hear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_%28sense%29) colors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color), see (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_perception) sounds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound), and taste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste) tactile sensations. That means, the perception of one stimulus evokes a second perception. Synaesthesia is a neurological condition, which occurs naturally in many individuals, but is also a common effect of some hallucinogenic drugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelics%2C_dissociatives_and_deliriants) such as LSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD) or mescaline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mescaline).

Synaesthetes often experience correspondences between the shades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade) of color, tones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone) of sounds, and intensities of tastes that provoke alternate sensations. For instance, a synaesthete may see a more intense red (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red) as the pitch of a sound gets higher, or a smoother surface might make one taste a sweeter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_taste#Sweetness) taste. These experiences are not metaphorical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor) or merely associations; rather, they are involuntary and are consistent throughout life, although some young synaesthetes seem to lose their ability by or during adulthood. Depressants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressant) tend to increase the depth of the perception.

Synaesthesia can even occur when one of the senses no longer functions properly, e.g., a person who can see colors when words are spoken can still see the colors if he becomes blind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindness) in later life. This phenomenon is known as "martian colors." The term originated from a case of a synaesthete who was born partially color blind, but saw certain 'alien' colors in his synaesthetic perceptions that he never saw (was incapable of seeing) in the 'real world.'

The most common forms of synaesthesia involve color being assigned to letters, numbers, days of the week or (especially for musicians) musical keys."

[ArtistofPeace]

Lying_in_a_field, how I can't stand ignorant people like you. The man offered us an experience. He is not an idiot. Quite the contrary, you yourself come off as a huge idiot for what you have retorted. You sound like a fucking close-minded prick. If this man experienced something which he perceived as a new color, than so be it. It's his experience, and he explains it the way he can. To call his description a "moronic perversion of terms and language" is moronic in itself. Terms and language exist so we can explain experiences and if they need to be perverted in order to do so, then so be it. There is nothing so set in stone that it doesn't give way to interpretation. So are all poets moronic? You fucking idiot.

What the hell do you consider to be "truly imaginative and objective?" Are you the say-all on this subject? Do I have to check with you every time I want to explain something I believe to be imaginative? Get the fuck over yourself. He didn't say it was for sure a new color. The man was describing his experience to us. The way he could explain it was to say it was a new color. Whether, in your little world of "truth" and boundaries, he is "right," doesn't matter. God, open your mind.

This is the weird forum. He shared something weird. Get over yourself and kindly shut up (go ahead...blah blah, free speech, blah blah).

[Daniel Herring]

Thanks, Cosmicbutterfly; I'll have to look some of that up.

Thanks, Artistofpeace; I was way too easy on the fellow, but, I think you set him straight.

:)

[Lying in a field]

It seems no-one is going to actually think about anything i've said, nor recognise the incredibly stupid flaws in OBVIOUS LOGIC

I'M NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T SEE A NEW COLOUR, I'M SAYING ONE SHOULD NOT BELIEVE IT LIKE THEY BELIEVE GOD EXISTS FOR SURE, JUST AS I SHOULDN'T BELIEVE A NEW COLOUR CANNOT EXIST JUST AS GOD CANNOT EXIST FOR SURE

I have a lot of friends who can think, can reason and can LISTEN so i'm not really changed or disillusioned by this experience either. Goodbye!

[DarkLunacy]

What you are experiencing is called astral projection. You are literally leaving your physical body and entering another plane of existance. You may indeed be experiencing things non-existant in this realm. When I sober up I'll send you a link to a website to develop your skill... I havent been able to do it yet. You have a very special abillity that you seem to be harnessing unintentionally. If developed you could be the next great scholar on the subject. Hope that adds a bit of clarity to all this flamming nonsence

[BuffFilmBuff]

I think the language you grew up speaking has a lot to do with how you see colors. I grew up speaking English, but my dad grew up speaking English and French. He uses the word "tango" to refer to a color between red and orange. I just always thought of it as "red" or "orange" but he sees it as a totally separate color.

[Daniel Herring]

Is that anything like tangerine?

[King Parrot]

It would be a seeded association.

You can't taste a colour, just as you can't see a smell or hear a taste.

[Daniel Herring]

Jeez! Not another one!

(Still though: "seeded" was pretty good.)

:)

[King Parrot]

Here's one to ponder:

Can you imagine a colour you've never seen before?

[wonderboy]

isn't that what he's saying?

[Cosmic Butterfly]

It would be a seeded association.

You can't taste a colour, just as you can't see a smell or hear a taste.

Yes you can and it is REAL. Many famous artists and musicians have this gift all over the world. Also an interesting thing is that this special phenomenom occurs quite often when people take psychedelics.

Its called synaesthesia. I reccomend that you look into it.

[SageDreamer]

Here's one to ponder:

Can you imagine a colour you've never seen before?
I think you can imagine a color you've never seen before. I think that our color vocabulary has an effect on the colors we see. For example, you might go around for years and not know what "mauve" means. Then you learn the word and associate it with something in that color, and it seems like you're seeing it everywhere. The point is not that you were unable to see it before. You are finally noticing it even though it's been there all along. You start perceiving it as a "new" color.

[AreYouExperienced]

Colors are combinations of wavelengths of different frequencies striking the transducers (rods + cones) in your eye and then interpreted by the occipital lobe of your brain. There are over 100 million different colors that can be distinguished by the human eye, though the English vocabulary only has names for about 200,000 of them. Anyone with a bachelor's degree in Psychology or Physiology/Pre-med can tell you that.

It's entirely possible for the OP to have envisioned a "new" color, i.e. a combination of wave lengths that his brain had never interpreted before.

[StonerBill]

I think you can imagine a color you've never seen before. I think that our color vocabulary has an effect on the colors we see. For example, you might go around for years and not know what "mauve" means. Then you learn the word and associate it with something in that color, and it seems like you're seeing it everywhere. The point is not that you were unable to see it before. You are finally noticing it even though it's been there all along. You start perceiving it as a "new" color. thats unrelated to this, since you never didnt see the mouve, you just didnt consider it as a seperate shade with a name.

it is impossible to imagine a colour youve not experienced before.

[hipzip]

some people have known to be possessing the ability to smell colors, to see sounds, to feel the texture of abstract forms.....i have forgotten the exact name of such a condition...but it is well-recognised in the field of psychiatry and neurology.

[hipzip]

Yes you can and it is REAL. Many famous artists and musicians have this gift all over the world. Also an interesting thing is that this special phenomenom occurs quite often when people take psychedelics.

Its called synaesthesia. I reccomend that you look into it.
ah yes....thaat's it....synaesthesia :)

[StonerBill]

synaesthesia is when a colour is stimulated by a sound, or a smell by a touch or something like that. it is not the case of seeing the sound or smelling the touch, whereby a totally new sensation is apparently experienced.

ie.

if the sound of a chainsaw lead to a perception of the colour red coming from wherever the sound was

vs

seeing the colour that IS the sound of a chainsaw

[zeppelin kid]

I think your all tripping on acid and you just wont admit it.

[Supermegaman]

yeah one out of 150000 people can taste see sometimes feel music because of there nerves are combined into the brain weird i seen it on the discovery channal when i was stoned

[inbloom]

synaesthesia is when a colour is stimulated by a sound, or a smell by a touch or something like that. it is not the case of seeing the sound or smelling the touch, whereby a totally new sensation is apparently experienced.
Exactly. I once experienced this on mushrooms. I saw colour spots formed by
words I was hearing, from the TV. I also watched the strings on my guitar
light up with colours, as I played different notes.

[SugarStash]

If you want to learn more about synesthesia, there are many websites you can check out. Just type the word into a search engine. Also, There is a book that just recently came out called "A Mango Shaped Space" By Wendy Mass. It is a young adult fiction, however it gives a lot of good info on synesthesia. Also check out "The Man Who Tasted Shapes" by Richard E. Cytowic.

[CrazybutLazy]

There is a disorder where you confuse your senses, and smell colors or taste shapes. I've read about it some while researching autism.

[desert nightmare]

There is a disorder where you confuse your senses, and smell colors or taste shapes. I've read about it some while researching autism.
Yeah it's synesthesia. I'm sure it's already been mintioned hundreds of times in this thread already though. I get it when i'm on acid sometimes. Not those damn rc's though. I think it is a fucking awsome experience to have!