Scientology

[DancerAnnie]

Has anyone read the article about Scientology in the new Rolling Stone?

I didn't really know very much about it (other than the basics) before reading it.

Personally I think it's a cult in disguise.

What are your views and opinions?

[2cool]

Yes, the article was pretty good until the end, when it became total garbage. Scientology is not a cult in any way but if you wanted to start another thread to trash a religion that has helped people all over the world, there are already two threads in the "cult" section about Dianetics and Scientology.

[MollyThe Hippy]

l r hubbard and dianetics is helping to keep the world safe from the warock menace

[DancerAnnie]

Yes, the article was pretty good until the end, when it became total garbage. Scientology is not a cult in any way but if you wanted to start another thread to trash a religion that has helped people all over the world, there are already two threads in the "cult" section about Dianetics and Scientology.
LOL how is it not a cult? How is Christianity not a cult? LOL all religions are cults if you want to get technical about it.

[DancerAnnie]

Yes, the article was pretty good until the end, when it became total garbage. Scientology is not a cult in any way but if you wanted to start another thread to trash a religion that has helped people all over the world, there are already two threads in the "cult" section about Dianetics and Scientology.
I also looked in the "cult" section. And I think the Scientologists got to you, bro. Watch out, you'll be spending your life savings for shit I can tell you...

By the way...how much do you love Xenu?

[Phrensied Rabbits]

Everything's a cult.
Get used to it http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Grouve on, anyway...

[seamonster66]

I believe its a blatant cult. When I lived in LA you would see the kids walking by in their uniforms staring at the sidewalk, the fresh in town movie extras attending "mmetngs" even converting to get certain jobs. My friend had a scientologist neighbor who moved. We snagged a catalogue that came for her which included 2 month long cruises for parents to send nonbelieving kids on, sets of 3 books for 11,000 dollars, and even more expensive getaways etc.

Supposedly it costs 300,000 dollars to achieve the highest level of enlightenment.

The first step, confessing to them every thing you've ever done and feel guilty about.

[DancerAnnie]

I believe its a blatant cult. When I lived in LA you would see the kids walking by in their uniforms staring at the sidewalk, the fresh in town movie extras attending "mmetngs" even converting to get certain jobs. My friend had a scientologist neighbor who moved. We snagged a catalogue that came for her which included 2 month long cruises for parents to send nonbelieving kids on, sets of 3 books for 11,000 dollars, and even more expensive getaways etc.

Supposedly it costs 300,000 dollars to achieve the highest level of enlightenment.

The first step, confessing to them every thing you've ever done and feel guilty about.
Yeah and you can't even masturbate :rolleyes:

[2cool]

I also looked in the "cult" section. And I think the Scientologists got to you, bro. Watch out, you'll be spending your life savings for shit I can tell you...

By the way...how much do you love Xenu?

A) You can get auditing for free. You just get partnered up with another pre-clear and audit eachother. Because your basically doing work for the church you don't have to pay any $$$.

B) There is no such thing as Xenu. Even if there was, is the story any weirder than the other religous ideas of creation?

By the way, is it fun to descriminate against somebody for their beliefs?

[DancerAnnie]

A) You can get auditing for free. You just get partnered up with another pre-clear and audit eachother. Because your basically doing work for the church you don't have to pay any $$$.

B) There is no such thing as Xenu. Even if there was, is the story any weirder than the other religous ideas of creation?

By the way, is it fun to descriminate against somebody for their beliefs?
Yeah auditing is free, but if they see you're "impure" they make put you through some stuff and make you pay for it...including those E-meters. Which, according to what I've read, were seized by the FBI because they weren't tested by the FDA and were being claimed to "cure" things. :rolleyes: So yeah, why don't you work for a church and not get paid for it.

I also seen in a previous post that you said they were super nice to you. Well, no duh! If they were jerks, they wouldn't get members, now would they?

And how do you know there is no such thing as Xenu? Unless you were at OT III or whatever and read through that packet, you don't know! And if you really are into Scientology, you don't read those things on the internet. Good try.

And I don't believe in Creationism...so...shrugs. I think it's all a scam.

And I wasn't descriminating against you....I didn't call you names, did I? No. I just think it's a crock and it makes me laugh that you'd be so vulnerable to fall into something like that.

[seamonster66]

I openly discrimnate against scientologists, not only is it fun, it is absolutely essential.

[pop_terror]

I think it is a cult...but I think cults are only perpetuated by a strict adherence to determinism/materialism in others.

Just my opinion. I think it's misguided that anybody has to convince themselves that they used to be an alien in order to believe in themselves. All I really know about scientology I saw on an episode of South Park, though.

[2cool]

I openly discrimnate against scientologists, not only is it fun, it is absolutely essential.
People like you make the world a better place.

[2cool]

Yeah auditing is free, but if they see you're "impure" they make put you through some stuff and make you pay for it...including those E-meters. Which, according to what I've read, were seized by the FBI because they weren't tested by the FDA and were being claimed to "cure" things. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif So yeah, why don't you work for a church and not get paid for it.

I also seen in a previous post that you said they were super nice to you. Well, no duh! If they were jerks, they wouldn't get members, now would they?

And how do you know there is no such thing as Xenu? Unless you were at OT III or whatever and read through that packet, you don't know! And if you really are into Scientology, you don't read those things on the internet. Good try.

And I don't believe in Creationism...so...shrugs. I think it's all a scam.

And I wasn't descriminating against you....I didn't call you names, did I? No. I just think it's a crock and it makes me laugh that you'd be so vulnerable to fall into something like that.
It's funny to me that people like you are supported when you obviously don't know what the hell your talking about. You read 1 article by Rolling Stone and you couldn't even get what they said right! What do you mean by "impure"? How do they deem you impure? I've heard the good, the bad, and the ugly, and there is nothing about being "impure". Also, you can't buy e-meters. The church uses them. Only approved field auditors can purchase them and take them home. So that doesn't make any sense, and I don't know where you got that from. Then you say that people claimed the e-meter could "cure" them. It can't and no one has ever said it could. They repeatedly say that the e-meter is a tool for the auditor, and in itself can do nothing.

"http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif So yeah, why don't you work for a church and not get paid for it."

That's the point. If you don't want to pay money to the church, then in exchange for auditing you audit others. Now if you wanted to make it your career to audit people, then you get paid.

"I also seen in a previous post that you said they were super nice to you. Well, no duh! If they were jerks, they wouldn't get members, now would they?"

Well yeah, I was just saying that they were nice. I wasn't trying to use the fact that they are nice to make a point. They were just nice. Why'd you bring it up?

"And I wasn't descriminating against you....I didn't call you names, did I? No. I just think it's a crock and it makes me laugh that you'd be so vulnerable to fall into something like that."

Posting the question "How much do you love Xenu?" you were purposely doing something you know would aggravate a Scientologist. You did it to be funny, mocking someone for their religious beliefs. Therefor you were being descriminate. Look I don't care if you don't believe in organized religion. That is your perogative. But you don't have the right to go around and pass judgement on other religions just because you don't have one yourself. You don't have a right to go and degrade people for their deepest most sincere beliefs. That's being a bully.

[Sera Michele]

So how much will it cost for enlightenment?

[themnax]

what disguise? all beliefs are cults in some sense. or rather all organized and shaired beliefs. scientology pretends to be a merage of science and belief and in that it succeeds in deceiving even itself as it is not a very good example of either.

like all religeos leaders, well most of the major ones anyway, hubbard may have and probably did, mean well.

scientology is like trying to preform brain surgery on yourself with a freshman psych text book in one hand and an exacto knife in the other.

and then they want money for it. you'd think the libertarians would love that.

i think one CAN seriously injure their mental health with it and its pretentions, but as cults go, it doesn't really hold a candle to major religeons themselves. especialy the more chauvansitic ones like christianity and islam.

=^^=
.../\...

[Monolith]

Scientology has always scared me.

On this game I play called Fallout there is a cult on there JUST LIKE scientologists, even come plete with a Tom Cruise and shit.. except his name isnt tom cruise.

[DancerAnnie]

So how much will it cost for enlightenment?
According to what I've read...and not just in the Rolling Stone article "2cool", it will cost 300,000 dollars.

Shit, I can find enlightenment for free just by meditating :rolleyes:

[DancerAnnie]

It's funny to me that people like you are supported when you obviously don't know what the hell your talking about. You read 1 article by Rolling Stone and you couldn't even get what they said right!I said everything right...you've just already been brainwashed by Scientologists, so you refuse to accept anything I say. Do you think I would really post about something that I read one article about? Yeah right...I've researched it and I still think it's a crock.

What do you mean by "impure"? How do they deem you impure? I've heard the good, the bad, and the ugly, and there is nothing about being "impure".Impure as in, if you're in a relationship and your significant other is not a Scientologist, they'll make you go through some classes for that. If you've ever had negative thoughts about Scientology, they'll make you take some classes on that. Also if you have "addictions", you are considered impure.

Also, you can't buy e-meters. The church uses them. Only approved field auditors can purchase them and take them home. So that doesn't make any sense, and I don't know where you got that from. Then you say that people claimed the e-meter could "cure" them. It can't and no one has ever said it could. They repeatedly say that the e-meter is a tool for the auditor, and in itself can do nothing.
You obvoiusly didn't read my post correctly. E-meters require a PAYMENT in order to use it. And they did claim that

That's the point. If you don't want to pay money to the church, then in exchange for auditing you audit others. Now if you wanted to make it your career to audit people, then you get paid. The whole auditing thing is ridiculous. Yeah, let's have people judge other people to determine their enlightenment...PLEASE...

Posting the question "How much do you love Xenu?" you were purposely doing something you know would aggravate a Scientologist. You did it to be funny, mocking someone for their religious beliefs. Therefor you were being descriminate. Look I don't care if you don't believe in organized religion. That is your perogative. But you don't have the right to go around and pass judgement on other religions just because you don't have one yourself. You don't have a right to go and degrade people for their deepest most sincere beliefs. That's being a bully.
Sure I was mocking you, but I wasn't discriminating against you. Being discriminatory does not result from mocking...It's not like I'm telling you that I don't like you because you're a wannabe Scientologist. To discriminate: to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit. Sorry, I'm not. And I'm not passing judgement on the basis of it just doesn't "sound" right...I've looked into it...and they're just trying to make money off of you. Once they aren't making money off of you, they don't give a shit about you. It's kind of like, if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. I can find enlightenment for free...I'll save my 300,000 dollars, thanks.

[mushie18]

I haven't finished the one in rolling stone, but I have read a couple articles on it in the past.


Honestly I just don't understand how anyone can believe in the religion. It is more unbelievable than christianity, and that says a lot. The people in the scientology church are nuts too.

p.s. tom cruise is a cunt.

[DancerAnnie]

p.s. tom cruise is a cunt.
Nah, more like a complete nutcase.

[2cool]

I said everything right...you've just already been brainwashed by Scientologists, so you refuse to accept anything I say. Do you think I would really post about something that I read one article about? Yeah right...I've researched it and I still think it's a crock.

Impure as in, if you're in a relationship and your significant other is not a Scientologist, they'll make you go through some classes for that. If you've ever had negative thoughts about Scientology, they'll make you take some classes on that. Also if you have "addictions", you are considered impure.


You obvoiusly didn't read my post correctly. E-meters require a PAYMENT in order to use it. And they did claim that

The whole auditing thing is ridiculous. Yeah, let's have people judge other people to determine their enlightenment...PLEASE...


Sure I was mocking you, but I wasn't discriminating against you. Being discriminatory does not result from mocking...It's not like I'm telling you that I don't like you because you're a wannabe Scientologist. To discriminate: to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit. Sorry, I'm not. And I'm not passing judgement on the basis of it just doesn't "sound" right...I've looked into it...and they're just trying to make money off of you. Once they aren't making money off of you, they don't give a shit about you. It's kind of like, if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. I can find enlightenment for free...I'll save my 300,000 dollars, thanks.
"The whole auditing thing is ridiculous. Yeah, let's have people judge other people to determine their enlightenment...PLEASE..."

That's not auditing. Wrong again. That doesn't even make sense. Let's see, that would mean you would sit down at a table, stare at eachother and then the other guy goes "Nope, still not enlightened! Try again next time."


"Impure as in, if you're in a relationship and your significant other is not a Scientologist, they'll make you go through some classes for that."

Can you say bs, as in bullshit? What would these classes consist of eh? If you think your so smart I'd like facts and details.

"I'll save my 300,000 dollars, thanks."

Again, you don't have to pay for it. I've explained that several times. But then again I think I'll leave you to your bashing. You obviously enjoy it more.

"I said everything right"

Hahahahahahahaha

"Do you think I would really post about something that I read one article about? "

You started this thread after only reading 1 article. Since then maybe you've read some more crap from the same anti cult wackos that fueled the Branch Davidian fiasco.

"Also if you have "addictions", you are considered impure."

Before you begin auditing, all drug residues and addictions are taken care of. Are you trying to say that addictions are ok? Like "those mean Scientologists, making me stop using Heroin!"


"I can find enlightenment for free"

Good, it needs work.

[mushie18]

how ironic...


Today as I was driving through town, I went by a vacant building that had the "the church of Scientology" emblem on it. I was shocked to find out that it's coming to my town.

weird...

[Night_Owl49]

how ironic...


Today as I was driving through town, I went by a vacant building that had the "the church of Scientology" emblem on it. I was shocked to find out that it's coming to my town.

weird... LOL, watch out man.

they'll get you before you know it.

[mushie18]

LOL, watch out man.

they'll get you before you know it.
I think I will check it out.

It would take a lot to suck me into their beliefs.

[2cool]

Watch out man. If your not careful they'll grab you and take you down to their secret torture basement. Then they'll rip out your toenails until you agree to give them your soul.

[mamaboogie]

Scientology is not only a cult, it's the ultimate MLM, selling happiness of all things. Those at the top are getting rich, and those at the bottom are giving away all their money to the "church"

You won't find much helpful info online, because they have enough money to buy out any website that speaks out against them. I find it really suprising to hear that Rolling Stone did an article about it, given their connections with the media and publishing people in high places.

But I do love L Ron's sci-fi paperbacks!! The old ones, the ones that the scientologists (who now own all the copyrights) won't ever agree to have them republished, those are the ones you should read. Because those are the books where he talks about how if someone wants to get rich, they should start a religion. Where multi-level-marketing and evangelism is a running joke in many of his books (he wrote hundreds of them, try a used bookstore's 10cent pile for the good ones). In a few books, there was this main character who always lived by the theory that if you use big words that nobody understands, they won't argue with you because they don't want to look stupid. Thing is, that really big words used incorrectly, and even made up words are all in Dianetics. Yes, I have read that book, too, and I thought it was hilarious. I doubt L Ron himself ever expected it to be taken seriously.

[2cool]

But I do love L Ron's sci-fi paperbacks!! The old ones, the ones that the scientologists (who now own all the copyrights) won't ever agree to have them republished, those are the ones you should read. Because those are the books where he talks about how if someone wants to get rich, they should start a religion. Where multi-level-marketing and evangelism is a running joke in many of his books (he wrote hundreds of them, try a used bookstore's 10cent pile for the good ones). In a few books, there was this main character who always lived by the theory that if you use big words that nobody understands, they won't argue with you because they don't want to look stupid.
Mmmhmmm. Did you also know L. Ron Hubbard would dress up like the cookie monster and eat baby hearts? Seriously this is such bull shit. I'd like book titles, publisher, character names, and above all pictures of these books so we know your not really making it up. But then again, everyone would just assume believe you than look for the truth. It's far more fun to have conflict than peace. Even for a supposed hippy site.

[mamaboogie]

uh... fer cryin out loud! go to a used bookstore and look for them yerself. He wrote hundreds of those cheap scifi paperbacks in the 50's and 60's. literally hundreds of them. So many of them, I'm sure you could find one or two if you just looked through the old scifi books yourself, at used bookstores, flea markets, yard sales... My mom owned a used bookstore when I was growing up, and I read lots of old scifi books. The old ones are the best ones, really.... I might have one here somewhere... I'll look for it just for you. You want to send me some postage and your address, I'll mail it to you so you can read it for yourself. Believe me, anyone who is a fan of old scifi knows about Hubbard's books, he wrote so many of them, and most of them are just variations on the same theme.

geesh, even the official scientology websites will tell you of "Hubbard's literary contribution to the world" but only mention four or five chosen books, and the Battlefield Earth series. L. Ron Hubbard's literary output ultimately encompassed more than 260 published novels, novelettes, short stories and screenplays in every genre. I would have thought it was even more books than that, judging by the sheer numbers of them that went through mom's bookstore. He was the ultimate in pulp fiction authors.

[GanjaPrince]

Cults are fun, scientology gives cults are bad name

Up with cults, down with money making schemes that pose as religions...

I think there are sincere scientologists, but the ones at the top seems obviously to know it is a money making scheme... it is not inspired by a mystic's experience in higher consciousness, it is just the mad dream of a sci-fi writer that came true... all ya can say is wow, god sure does have a great sense of cosmic humor.

[FreakerSoup]

Yeah, L. Ron Hubbard = Science Fiction author. Apparently (according to Carl Sagan, to whom I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt), he started scientology on a bet that he could make start a religion and make a profit from it.

[2cool]

Yeah, L. Ron Hubbard = Science Fiction author. Apparently (according to Carl Sagan, to whom I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt), he started scientology on a bet that he could make start a religion and make a profit from it.
That might be the biggest rumor in the world. Can you rrally see, to guys casually making a bet, then him going and spending all his time, effort, and money into this. BTW, L. Ron Hubbard was born into a family of millionaires. He didn't need any money. And when he died, he donated all of his money to the Church of Scientology so that it could live on. Why would he do that? He made his money. Why should he give a rats ass any more? He made his $$$.

[mamaboogie]

because to him, it was the ultimate joke. read some of his books for yourself. That's the sort of sense of humor the man had. Try reading Dianetics, but remember what I said earlier about people using big words that nobody understands, because that is key in reading that particular book and seeing it for what it really is, a big joke.

[mushie18]

2cool, are you a scientologist...?

If so, what led you to this religion, and why?

[MaryJane69]

I havent read any posts or even what the thread is about, but Scientology is fucked.

I went to a flea market, and this guy had a stand full of Ron Hubbard books. Well he sucked my bf into talking to him, and he had us there for a good 20 minutes, convincing us Scientology was the only true answer to life. We kept saying we really had to go and he physically grabbed my arm and got really in my face. I finally grabbed his book as if to read it and flung it at him and we ran. It was kinda really funny.

Moral is: All Scientologists are fucked up.

Anyone see that episode of South Park wjhere they go into details what Scientology is all about?? It's so funny.

I love John Travolta. Why'd he have to go all weirdo on me.

[GanjaPrince]

because to him, it was the ultimate joke. read some of his books for yourself. That's the sort of sense of humor the man had. Try reading Dianetics, but remember what I said earlier about people using big words that nobody understands, because that is key in reading that particular book and seeing it for what it really is, a big joke.

Oh lighten up...

Everything is a big joke


It's called the cosmic joke


Have you gotten it yet?


It the laughter that pulsates through the cosmos... it is the divine leela, the play...

the unbearably compassionate humor of the one consciousness beyond time/space, and in time/space.

Scientology like any other phenomenon; WW2, billy madison, buddha's enlightenment, ducks, supernovas, murder, kissing, sex, meditation, mysticism, religion, houses, money, government, comedy central, TV, the daily show, death, reincarnation, the here now, gandhi, india, tibet, the dark ages, the black plauge, a loving relationship, martin luther king's I have a dream speech...


Everything is funny in it's own way, because it is sooooo absurd, and the thing in my life I try to laught at the most is my own ego... cosmic laughter leads to the realization of oneness...


Getting the cosmic joke is essential to seeing it like it is.

[FreakerSoup]

That might be the biggest rumor in the world. Can you rrally see, to guys casually making a bet, then him going and spending all his time, effort, and money into this. BTW, L. Ron Hubbard was born into a family of millionaires. He didn't need any money. And when he died, he donated all of his money to the Church of Scientology so that it could live on. Why would he do that? He made his money. Why should he give a rats ass any more? He made his $$$.'Cause he's dead. He has nothing to lose by giving everything to his church. Scientology does have some admirable suggestions for a way of life, but that's as far as it goes. To take it as a religion is to take it too far.

He knew he could take people for their money, so why not?
According to his son, he was also fairly mentally unstable. Maybe just emotionally, but some of the stuff he talked about was waaaay messed up.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

You won't find much helpful info online, because they have enough money to buy out any website that speaks out against them.

Au contraire.Despite spending millions every year on lawyers' fees,they haven't made a dent on critical info on the net.Go to www.xenu.net

Among other things,you'll find four full-length books (webbed) on Scientology/Hubbard and dozens,if not hundreds,of accounts by former Scientologists.Including a former member of their secret police who posted last week for the first time.



I find it really suprising to hear that Rolling Stone did an article about it, given their connections with the media and publishing people in high places.

Rolling Stone soft-pedaled it somewhat,for whatever reasons.
At the Xenu website,you can also find the Time magazine cover story that caused Scn to sue.(Scn lost.) And series of articles in The Boston Globe,LA Times,St Petersberg Times,etc,exposing the abusive behavior and endless lies of the "Church."

[2cool]

Au contraire.Despite spending millions every year on lawyers' fees,they haven't made a dent on critical info on the net.Go to www.xenu.net (http://www.xenu.net/)

Among other things,you'll find four full-length books (webbed) on Scientology/Hubbard and dozens,if not hundreds,of accounts by former Scientologists.Including a former member of their secret police who posted last week for the first time.




Rolling Stone soft-pedaled it somewhat,for whatever reasons.
At the Xenu website,you can also find the Time magazine cover story that caused Scn to sue.(Scn lost.) And series of articles in The Boston Globe,LA Times,St Petersberg Times,etc,exposing the abusive behavior and endless lies of the "Church."But you know one thing no one ever tries to "expose" is the fact that Scientology helps people to unimaginable degree. People that who suffer of epilepsy, migraines, heart attacks even are all cured. Even the former Scientologists who spend their time finding people willing to pay them for a good story, even they have nothing to say about the fact that Scientology has helped them physically, mentally, emotionally. People crippled by bad eyesight will walk out of auditing and take their glasses off, never having to put them on again. But no one, even those outrageous Xenu sites, they have nothing to say about the peoples whose lives have been saved by Scientology. Why? Because that's no good. No one wants to hear about that. They like to hear about Chaos and corruption. Their whole lives depend on it. They are religious bigots and to talk about the lives helped and saved is far too boring to hear about and far too dangerous for their future. The truth lies in the fact that Scientology has not stopped growing. 2 new missions have opened up so far 2006. 1 in Idaho, 1 in Kyrgzstan. Which means Scientology will help people in 2 brand new places which, until now have not had Scientology establishments!

[Bluesbilly Dave]

But you know one thing no one ever tries to "expose" is the fact that Scientology helps people to unimaginable degree.

Oh,I don't know,Tom Cruise and John Travolta seem to be able to disseminate how wonderful $cientology is without any problem.


People that who suffer of epilepsy, migraines, heart attacks even are all cured.

BWAHAHAHA.It will also cure cancer,bad breath,and give your kitchen floor a gleaming shine like you've only dreamed of.
Bring your checkbook.

[2cool]

Oh,I don't know,Tom Cruise and John Travolta seem to be able to disseminate how wonderful $cientology is without any problem.




BWAHAHAHA.It will also cure cancer,bad breath,and give your kitchen floor a gleaming shine like you've only dreamed of.
Bring your checkbook.
Your sarcasm is funny but doesn't make my statements any less true. Scientology hasn't stood the test of time for no reason. Tell me, all the people who have sworn about miracles that happend to them thanks to Scientology, all the people whose lives have literally been saved, these thousands of people all over the world are all lying? Wow. Too bad the all the pyramid schemes couldn't get people to do the same thing, they'd still be around too eh?

[Sera Michele]

Your sarcasm is funny but doesn't make my statements any less true. Scientology hasn't stood the test of time for no reason. Tell me, all the people who have sworn about miracles that happend to them thanks to Scientology, all the people whose lives have literally been saved, these thousands of people all over the world are all lying? Wow. Too bad the all the pyramid schemes couldn't get people to do the same thing, they'd still be around too eh? I would be interested in seeing these case studies where people were cured of epilepsy, heart attacks, and such with scientology. Thousands worldwide, like you claim, ought to make for some very good research and documentation.

Oh, and scientology began in 1950, and I would hardly call 56 years the "test of time."


What is making your statements less true is your lack of information backing them up. We are supposed to just take you at your word? Not all of us care to be misled...

[2cool]

I would be interested in seeing these case studies where people were cured of epilepsy, heart attacks, and such with scientology. Thousands worldwide, like you claim, ought to make for some very good research and documentation.

Oh, and scientology began in 1950, and I would hardly call 56 years the "test of time."


What is making your statements less true is your lack of information backing them up. We are supposed to just take you at your word? Not all of us care to be misled...
They are all Scientologists. Ask any Scientologist and they will tell you. Read Dianetics and you'll read about some of the early success stories. Read the book "What is Scientology" and there is an entire chapter dedicated to people telling about their experiences. Success stories from every level of Scientology. People are cured of epilepsy, migraines, and inexplicable illness including limbs suddenly withering away, and someone in danger of losing their eyes for no apparent reason. It's not as if all these people go to lab after auditing to get examined. They've just experienced a miracle that forever changed their lives. Any Scientologist has success stories. For some it's that they conquered their fear of talking in front of audiences, for others it's something bigger. Oh and seeing that most religions lifespan is a matter of years before they deteriorate I see 56 years as standing the test of time, including the fact that Scientology is the fastest growing religion in the world. No other religion has grown as quickly in the last 30 years than Scientology. Furthermore it's grown more in the last 5 years than ever before.

[Sera Michele]

They are all Scientologists. Ask any Scientologist and they will tell you. Read Dianetics and you'll read about some of the early success stories. Read the book "What is Scientology" and there is an entire chapter dedicated to people telling about their experiences. Success stories from every level of Scientology. People are cured of epilepsy, migraines, and inexplicable illness including limbs suddenly withering away, and someone in danger of losing their eyes for no apparent reason. It's not as if all these people go to lab after auditing to get examined. They've just experienced a miracle that forever changed their lives. Any Scientologist has success stories. For some it's that they conquered their fear of talking in front of audiences, for others it's something bigger. Oh and seeing that most religions lifespan is a matter of years before they deteriorate I see 56 years as standing the test of time, including the fact that Scientology is the fastest growing religion in the world. No other religion has grown as quickly in the last 30 years than Scientology. Furthermore it's grown more in the last 5 years than ever before.
I can find you the same shit from every religion. We got pentacostals casting out deamons every sunday, letting the blind see and the crippled walk. If we take everyone at their word we would all have to believe all kinds of B.S.

And as far as religion giving people a psychological boost (people getting over stage fright and such), that is aanother claim people of any religion can make. That type of thing is a product of belief in any manner, not one particular belief.

Also, it's rate of growth is not an indication of any sort of absolute truth of it's message.

[2cool]

I can find you the same shit from every religion. We got pentacostals casting out deamons every sunday, letting the blind see and the crippled walk. If we take everyone at their word we would all have to believe all kinds of B.S.

And as far as religion giving people a psychological boost (people getting over stage fright and such), that is aanother claim people of any religion can make. That type of thing is a product of belief in any manner, not one particular belief.

Also, it's rate of growth is not an indication of any sort of absolute truth of it's message.
If you've read Dianetics you'd understand the reasoning behind it. It makes sense. It's a mental/spiritual thing. Not some guy waving a wand and saying some chant to heal you. It's not "healing" in the traditional sense of the word really. These things, epilepsy, migraines etc. are all psychosomatic, and that's where Scientology comes in and rids the person of the psychosomatic. It's not some religious ritual with candles and holy water to get and evil spirit out. It's therapy for the spirit and mind.

[FreakerSoup]

Actually, the fastest growing religion in the world is FreakerSoupism. Last year, nobody was a follower, and now I myself subscribe to that belief. That makes a growth rate of infinity percent.

[Sera Michele]

It's not "healing" in the traditional sense of the word really. These things, epilepsy, migraines etc. are all psychosomatic,
Ok, well show me the scientific research supporting this then. Tom Cruise jumping on a couch doesn't count.

[inbloom]

Yeah and you can't even masturbate :rolleyes:I refuse to join anything that won't allow me to masturbate.

It's like L Ron himself said:

"If you want to make a million dollars...start a religion."
(That may be paraphrased a bit, as I don't have the actual quote on hand.)

At any rate, the whole thing's a joke. I have a hard time believing that I
have "Body Thetans" stuck to my ass cheeks, and that I should fork over
my money, and mind, to these fucks, so that they can help me get rid of
them. It's a load of shit.

Plus, 2cool, no offence, but you're 16. You're very impressionable, and you
still have a lot to learn. Not saying that I don't, but your mind is still very
fresh and ready to soak up the first thing it sees. Don't buy into this crap,
because of it's empty promises of enlightenment. As Annie said, you can find
enlightenment by meditating. No religion, rules, or beliefs necessary. Find
enlightenment on your own terms, don't buy into the money making schemes.

[2cool]

I refuse to join anything that won't allow me to masturbate.

It's like L Ron himself said:

"If you want to make a million dollars...start a religion."
(That may be paraphrased a bit, as I don't have the actual quote on hand.)

At any rate, the whole thing's a joke. I have a hard time believing that I
have "Body Thetans" stuck to my ass cheeks, and that I should fork over
my money, and mind, to these fucks, so that they can help me get rid of
them. It's a load of shit.

Plus, 2cool, no offence, but you're 16. You're very impressionable, and you
still have a lot to learn. Not saying that I don't, but your mind is still very
fresh and ready to soak up the first thing it sees. Don't buy into this crap,
because of it's empty promises of enlightenment. As Annie said, you can find
enlightenment by meditating. No religion, rules, or beliefs necessary. Find
enlightenment on your own terms, don't buy into the money making schemes.Again, L Ron Hubbard never said anything about "If you wanna make a million dollars, start a religion." he was born into a family of millionaires. He lived his whole life rich. He didn't need any more money. Oh and FYI, you CAN masturbate in Scientology. This isn't Christianity. BTW, thanks for sterotyping me. I don't go "Wow, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist and he's famous! Scientology = Good." I've researched lots of religions, and many are interesting. But nothing really snaps until you read Scientology. I'm getting really tired of sitting here and having to defend my religion. People keep repeating the same things that I've addressed 5 times over. Oh and Sera Michele, I don't have the actual research with me, it's all very technical stuff that's hard to really understand. It's not like he jots down his findings immediately into book form. If you want research read "Dianetics", or some of his other Dianetic books are a little more detailed. I've defended Scientology here 3 times now. I forgot intolerance was such a popular theme among so called "hippies." Though I must say most people at this forum aren't hippies. Most of them turn out to be asshole potheads who like to post pictures of their dicks, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

[inbloom]

Again, L Ron Hubbard never said anything about "If you wanna make a million dollars, start a religion." he was born into a family of millionaires. He lived his whole life rich. He didn't need any more money. Oh and FYI, you CAN masturbate in Scientology. This isn't Christianity. BTW, thanks for sterotyping me. I don't go "Wow, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist and he's famous! Scientology = Good." I've researched lots of religions, and many are interesting. But nothing really snaps until you read Scientology. I'm getting really tired of sitting here and having to defend my religion. People keep repeating the same things that I've addressed 5 times over. Oh and Sera Michele, I don't have the actual research with me, it's all very technical stuff that's hard to really understand. It's not like he jots down his findings immediately into book form. If you want research read "Dianetics", or some of his other Dianetic books are a little more detailed. I've defended Scientology here 3 times now. I forgot intolerance was such a popular theme among so called "hippies." Though I must say most people at this forum aren't hippies. Most of them turn out to be asshole potheads who like to post pictures of their dicks, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
Wow, your immature outburst and insulting comments REALLY help
you case there, buddy. Way to defend scientology.

First off, he DID say that. He's also been quoted as saying:
"Make money. Make more money. Make other people make money."

Yeah, the guy wasn't obsessed with money, at all.

Besides, it doesn't matter if he was born rich. More often than not, the
rich ones are the ones that seek to have more, more, more, more, and give
less, less, less.

[Sera Michele]

Again, L Ron Hubbard never said anything about "If you wanna make a million dollars, start a religion." he was born into a family of millionaires. He lived his whole life rich. He didn't need any more money. Oh and FYI, you CAN masturbate in Scientology. This isn't Christianity. BTW, thanks for sterotyping me. I don't go "Wow, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist and he's famous! Scientology = Good." I've researched lots of religions, and many are interesting. But nothing really snaps until you read Scientology. I'm getting really tired of sitting here and having to defend my religion. People keep repeating the same things that I've addressed 5 times over. Oh and Sera Michele, I don't have the actual research with me, it's all very technical stuff that's hard to really understand. It's not like he jots down his findings immediately into book form. If you want research read "Dianetics", or some of his other Dianetic books are a little more detailed. I've defended Scientology here 3 times now. I forgot intolerance was such a popular theme among so called "hippies." Though I must say most people at this forum aren't hippies. Most of them turn out to be asshole potheads who like to post pictures of their dicks, but whatever floats your boat I guess. Ok, first things first. There are plenty of millionaires in the world, and they are all still trying to get money. People don't stop trying to make money once they have a million dollars...

Secondly, I don't care if the research is techinical stuff that is hard for you to understand, you need to supply us with supporting evidence to your information, you can't just expet us to accept at your word that things like epilepsy are psychosomatic. I can google it myself, but I want to know where YOU are sourcing YOUR information. But if one book is all it takes for you to buy another reality then I've got plenty whacky stuff for you in my Stephen King collection. Why limit yourself to a sci-fi writer?

And I think you are having problems in this forum because we ARE hippies and we don't like it when someone comes along with a B.S. message of enlightenment and charges a price for it. That is VERY un-hippy. Us hippies share, we don't try to capitalize off of eachother. I don't know any hippies that would start a religion where it takes money (or sitting around judging people - auditing, whatever you call it) to make it to the top.


Edit: And just to add, I just went to scientology's own website and they offered me a free personality test and claimed they would have normally charged $500.00 for it!!! Come on, you can't smell BULLSHIT a mile away??? I may as well went to Match.com looking for enlightenment...

[Sera Michele]

Fastest growing religion? Grown more in the past 5 years?

From the very article discussed at the beginning of the thread:

Church officials boast that Scientology has grown more in the past five years than in the previous fifty. Some evidence, however, suggests otherwise. In 2001, a survey conducted by the City University of New York found only 55,000 people in the United States who claimed to be Scientologists. Worldwide, some observers believe a reasonable estimate of Scientology's core practicing membership ranges between 100,000 and 200,000, mostly in the U.S., Europe, South Africa and Australia. According to the church's own course-completion lists -- many of which are available in a church publication and on the Internet -- only 6,126 people signed up for religious services at the Clearwater organization in 2004, down from a peak of 11,210 in 1989. According to Kristi Wachter, a San Francisco activist who maintains an online database devoted to Scientology's numbers, this pattern is replicated at nearly all of Scientology's key organizations and churches. To some observers, this suggests that Scientology may, in fact, be shrinking.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology?rnd=1141765569025&has-player=unknown

[inbloom]

Well said, sister. :D

[FreakerSoup]

I don't think anyone is being "intolerant" here. Nobody has called you an asshole for believing this stuff, we (at least I) just don't feel that you should be bound (especially at 16) by such a cult-like religion. Sure, take away some of the basic tenants that help you become a better person, but don't buy into it.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

from The Boston Herald,1998:
**********************The Church of Scientology's late founder, Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, left behind a $ 640 million fortune, and an estimated 25 million words in books and lectures that form the spiritual core of his controversial religion.

But some of those words are a legacy of exaggerations, half-truths and outright lies, according to Hubbard's son, court records and critics.

"The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be reflective of its founder LRH," wrote California Superior Court Judge Paul Breckenridge during a top Scientology defector's court suit against the church.

"The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements," said Breckenridge, who ruled for defector Gerry Armstrong in the 1984 case.
********************

[DancerAnnie]

from The Boston Herald,1998:
**********************The Church of Scientology's late founder, Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, left behind a $ 640 million fortune, and an estimated 25 million words in books and lectures that form the spiritual core of his controversial religion.

But some of those words are a legacy of exaggerations, half-truths and outright lies, according to Hubbard's son, court records and critics.

"The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be reflective of its founder LRH," wrote California Superior Court Judge Paul Breckenridge during a top Scientology defector's court suit against the church.

"The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements," said Breckenridge, who ruled for defector Gerry Armstrong in the 1984 case.
********************
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I love it.

[Bluesbilly Dave]

Hubbard wasn't rich before $cientology.He was writing pulp fiction for sci-fi magazines for a penny-a-word.He made the "start a religion" quote several times in front of various writer acquaintances.
Hubbard dropped out of college.He later claimed to be a Ph D and nuclear physicist.He purchased diplomas to hang on the wall from a mail-order outfit.
He claimed to have been in combat in WW ll.He was never in combat,and was relieved of command three times for being a fuck-up.His two-day battle with a non-existant submarine off the coast of Oregon is an especially funny highlight of his military career.He later *bought* a case full of medals to display in his office.
Hubbard claimed to have been "crippled and blinded" in the war,after which he came up with techniques to heal himself.His correspondence with the Veteran's Administraion after the war show that to be bullshit as well.
Would you buy a used car from this man?

[inbloom]

Hahahaha, oh lordy, that's too good. Thanks for sharing Dave,
that sheds some interesting light on this subject. Hahahaha.

[mamaboogie]

If you've read Dianetics you'd understand the reasoning behind it.
if you read dianetics, you don't understand anything, because of the really long and/or invented words out of context and used incorrectly. Anyone who says they read it and understand it, are saying that because they don't want to admit they don't understand it and look dumb. Nobody can understand it because half of the words in it is not from any known human language, should be called Hubbardese, I think.

it's all very technical stuff that's hard to really understand. exactly, that's the whole point. If you don't understand it, that makes it really hard to disagree or argue against it, doesn't it?

you have been told to believe certain things. We all have to some extent. Most of us look into those beliefs and ask "why?" Why should you believe these things? Because someone has told you to believe it? Because they told you that if you don't believe it, you will suffer the consequences, burn in hell, be unhappy forever, or some other similar scare tactic? Or because you have spent the last twenty years searching your soul for the answers... oh, you haven't even been around 20 years yet. Get a grip. Nobody is being intolerant. Scientology is the most successful MLM ever, not a religion. Find some of Hubbard's books, including Dianetics. Read them. Make up your own mind what kind of person he was. But don't take anyone else's word for it. Unquestioned faith is not worth having. Question your beliefs. If, after all, you find that to be what you really and truly believe is so, your faith will be much stronger for having questioned it in the first place. If not, you will recognize that no claims made by any organisation, religious or otherwise, should ever be accepted blindly without looking for the answers yourself.

[dd3stp233]

I would recommend that anyone interested in L. Ron Hubbard should read "Sex and Rockets: the occult world of Jack Parsons" by Jack Carter. It is about Jack Parsons, one of the founders of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and early pioneers of American Rocketry, who was the #2 figure in Alestair Crowley's group in the U.S. Hubbard was renting a room at Parson's house and took part in the magick rituals. Hubbard was also later a business partner with Parsons and even stole Parsons girlfriend and his boat. There is a lot more in the book but you can read for yourself. It is different view of Hubbard then how he is described by Scientology. It appears that Hubbard got much of his religious knowledge from these years that he later used to create Scientology.