Toward a Healthier Trade Circle

[Mychal]

deleted

[poorphucker]

Personally, I think you should wait and goto the trading circle and your first gathering!

Will you write me something about the ball I am holding right now?

What color is it? What size? What is its texture? Is it hollow?

Unless you have highly refined ESP, I do not think you could answer these questions!

You are not here to see it, nor have you ever seen this ball. So, I would not expect you to be able to know all about the ball ;)

Kind of like writing about an lsd trip but never trying lsd?

:)

Az

Great topic though!

[Mychal]

I would love to submit a rap for consideration to the trade circle. And I believe that anyone there would welcome yours' or anyone else's suggestions for such a rap. Should you care to make one, I would be happy to present it to them when I go to the gathering.

by the way, I know a man who was against any kind of positive feedback, any kind of proactive actions, but he sure like to gripe. Would he happen to go by the name of poorphucker?


ps: orange, hand held, soft, sand or seeds. Am I close?

[poorphucker]

by the way, I know a man who was against any kind of positive feedback, any kind of proactive actions, but he sure like to gripe. Would he happen to go by the name of poorphucker? Your point and intention?


I know a man...http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Az

[hippiestead]

Who is the 'them' that a rap would be submitted to?

And there is already a basic trader circle rap in the mini-manual

(we made a longer post but it disappeared somewhere)

[Mychal]

Trade Circle,
Barter and the mutual exchange of crafts and the like are encouraged. One thing exchanged directly for another thing or for a service performed. money changing in the temple is unacceptable. No money should ever change hands here. Using money jeopardizes our right to use public land. Trading unused commercially produced goods is in bad taste. The gathering is for sharing hearts, not making profit & the funky energy that goes with it. As a result, consensus was reached in 1995 that the Trade Circle should not be on the main trail,or in sight of the Main Meadow.


I did read that.

Excuse me, the "them" is the trade council. poorphucker suggests I wait to go to the trade circle before I ask folks here to submit a rap.

It seems like the other thread was filled with negative lambasting. In an effort to direct those energies, I suggested that we do something positive and proactive, like writing a rap. I would never assume I had all or any of the answers. Another reason to propose it here. If you think that's a waist of energy, I don't see how it waists more energy than bitching.




Your point and intention?
The point was to use your style of sarcasm, to indirectly ask if you intend to support any effort to make the Trade Circle a better place, or would you just rather belly-ache?

poorphucker, You know, some people aren't happy unless they are putting something or somebody down. They actually like to see things fail, they would never think of trying to help a wayward brother who's selling snickers bars at the trade circle to see the light, because then they wouldn't have anything to belly-ache about.

[hippiestead]

we think it's a little more productive to set a positive example rather than to write a new rap that will only be ignored by those who most need to read it. It certainly blows the whole profiteering racket when some sets up a 'stuff for smiles' trade blanket.

as far as submitting a rap to trade council, you could call for a trade circle council; good luck, some of these issues have been addressed before.

Now, on to this 'point & intention' thing-let's throw some wood on this fire of ideas. From conversations we've had with poorphucker, he leans toward a non-restrictive Rainbow (just our take on how you feel, poorphucker); Mychal, your first post came off as a 'rule seeking' idea, even if you didn't intend it that way. Throwing flames around, directly or indirectly, gets nobody nowhere.

(ps.Mychal, do you have a problem with snickers bars? we've never seen a cash trade for candy, though admittedly trade circle isn't our main hang. we have seen people tell children that they will only trade candy for tradables that children should not have...and when we see something like that we tell the trader straight up that we think it's crappy to do that.)

[poorphucker]

Your point and intention?
The point was to use your style of sarcasm, to indirectly ask if you intend to support any effort to make the Trade Circle a better place, or would you just rather belly-ache? Oh.... is that what that was?

No... there is no good inside of me what so ever. But I am sure you know that already. My whole intention is to disrupt family and cause each other pain. I practice it from the morning I awake till I lay my head down upon my pillow.I am pitiful and should not walk this Earth.... where did I put that noose? Is that what ya want to hear?

Maybe if you gave the thread a bit of time to have others inputs, I might make the effort to pull some kindness out of my ass. I might have to dig deep.

But, then again, I am in hiding in Canada and should not have an opinion.

Anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt!

poorphucker, You know, some people aren't happy unless they are putting something or somebody down. They actually like to see things fail, they would never think of trying to help a wayward brother who's selling snickers bars at the trade circle to see the light, because then they wouldn't have anything to belly-ache about.Gee.... if that is another attempt at sarcasim towards me as an individual... you are doing an absoultely fabulous job of nothing ;)

You do not know me nor have you met me. Funny, how you can insinuate about my intentions and the type of person I am.

If you do not like me and have judged me from my posts... SO BE IT!

I am at no loss for friends, and anyone that knows me can see that I am a very kind person. Think what you will. I will sleep just as good tonight as I have every other night!

Do you now have a problem with me in general?

If so... keep it to yourself ;)

Pm all your insults, and I will glady teach you a couple hundred new ones!

I have heard them all!

I have no need, nor want, to have to explain my motives of existence, nor should I have to atone for my postings to a sock puppet that has never met me nor taken the time to get to know me ;)

If anything, I was rather curious about your enthusiasm of wanting to create a seperate rap about a trading circle you have never experienced yourself, when you have not been able to form your own opinion on the actual trading circle and what goes on there!

Everything you are attempting to do is based on others opinions and lack your own... except from what you have heard!


Az

[Mychal]

Thanks for the heads up hippiestead. I was trying to move the discourse into a positive direction. Please excuse my misstep, I've removed my first post, my suggestions.

poorphucker, I am sorry for insulting you. I did not intend to wound or offend.

I am indifferent about Snickers Bars. From the last thread, it had become a symbol of what was wrong with trade circle.

I'll bow out now.

[poorphucker]

poorphucker, I am sorry for insulting you. I did not intend to wound or offend.
You never have insulted me mychal :)

I don't even know you! ;)

Hard to be insulted by someone that does not know me and I have not met!

As for erasing the thread, that makes all our posts look foolish!

I guess I will have to fill this thread with nonsense for the next few yearshttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

You started a very valid thread that could have started many wonderful conversations.

Never bow down.... reaching an understanding is much better!

Az

[poorphucker]

Now..... onward with this thread!

Useless fact of the day?

Honeybees have hair on their eyes.

Az

[hippiestead]

hair on the eyes? how strange.

So let's open the floor to talk about some ways to disrupt the profiteering traders.

In MT, one brother had a place near trade circle that he called 'the living room'...anybody who sat in the living room was invited to partake in the smoking circle there The living room put a small devaluation on the trade item that it often the item profiteering traders are looking for. A living room in the trade circle could make a serious inpact on the profiteering trade.

we were hoping to do a 'crashing of the profiteering movie' in WV but we couldn't get away from the hippiestead last summer, CO is still 'up in the air' for us too (Cinnamon has an Alzhiemer's patient that she can't diss out on)

Here are some ideas we had for 'crashing the market'
free trade blankets-lots of them-candy for a smile, happyness bubbles for help blowing them (bubble blowers get their own bottle of bubble juice with free refills for the whole Gathering), hippie jewelry for a smile...basically a group of folks trying to show other folks that material items are meaningless.

It would take a committed group to change the current trade trend, but it would work if there were as many or more free traders as traders looking to for material gain out of their trades.

Comments? Other thoughts or ideas?

[nutznfl]

<< gona be in ocala with free chocolate peanutbutter balls at some point

[SomeoneELSE]

>>gona be in ocala with free chocolate peanutbutter balls at some point<<

Damn had to register just to scream ME ME ME ME
OH I am so in love with your balls.....hahaha
Gotta let me know
They are the best and I got so lucky last year they were so awesome!!!
Was just looking for FL info and I got so lucky today you so gotta let me know
BOB...director (ha ha ha like there could be one) of death camp....Usually at Iris sometimes in Kiddie Village.....OH so save me some!!!....damn is that poor rainbow spirit?....gimmme some?

[dilligaf]

)

Here are some ideas we had for 'crashing the market'
free trade blankets-lots of them-candy for a smile, happyness bubbles for help blowing them (bubble blowers get their own bottle of bubble juice with free refills for the whole Gathering), hippie jewelry for a smile...basically a group of folks trying to show other folks that material items are meaningless.

It would take a committed group to change the current trade trend, but it would work if there were as many or more free traders as traders looking to for material gain out of their trades.

Comments? Other thoughts or ideas?
just my 2 1/2 cents on your crashing the market hippiestead... n although we weren't in trade alley at national this year when this happened,,,, it sorta shocked me a bit,,,, or surprised me i should say,,,, twas me first nat, n only third or 4th rainbow "event" ever....
but,,,, we had a whole shitpot load of crackers n dried fruit n pnut butter,snickers, some organic nasty cereal stuff, trail mix,,,, nuttin fancy ,,,, n rather than take it back on out with us decided for shits n giggles to just throw our blanket out on a path edge one evenin,,,, lit some candles and seated our selves to hand out snacks for the "road" ...It was prolly the best evening we had in the nine days we were there ,,,,,
but the questions we got were kinda insane atleast to this newbie to rainbow ,,,,, r u selling that, r u trading that,,,,, what do you want for that ,, etc etc,,,, ,,, n to see the happypples when we said nah man just have some,,,, was pretty kewl but at the same time isnt that really the heart of rainbow, the giving n sharing n not expecting from others,,,, yet here we was on our lil highway n that was the first question out of everyone just about

[hippiestead]

just my 2 1/2 cents on your crashing the market hippiestead... n although we weren't in trade alley at national this year when this happened,,,, it sorta shocked me a bit,,,, or surprised me i should say,,,, twas me first nat, n only third or 4th rainbow "event" ever....
but,,,, we had a whole shitpot load of crackers n dried fruit n pnut butter,snickers, some organic nasty cereal stuff, trail mix,,,, nuttin fancy ,,,, n rather than take it back on out with us decided for shits n giggles to just throw our blanket out on a path edge one evenin,,,, lit some candles and seated our selves to hand out snacks for the "road" ...It was prolly the best evening we had in the nine days we were there ,,,,,
but the questions we got were kinda insane atleast to this newbie to rainbow ,,,,, r u selling that, r u trading that,,,,, what do you want for that ,, etc etc,,,, ,,, n to see the happypples when we said nah man just have some,,,, was pretty kewl but at the same time isnt that really the heart of rainbow, the giving n sharing n not expecting from others,,,, yet here we was on our lil highway n that was the first question out of everyone just about
yep, that's weird thing, not many can accept that folks are sharing freely....except those folks who are 'fishing' for anything they can get. the Family needs more folks that just want to share, and hopefully the vibe will spread.

we've given away free food at festivals and it freaks people out....some people will force us to take money which we usually use to buy more food to give away. we remind folks to drink water & we offer free sunblock to people ('specially if they're starting to look red). we try to show folks the Rainbow Light no matter where we are or what we're doing

[rastapatch]

hey fucker , ahem i mean phucker, you are almost too funny sometimes. I am glad that thing is not loaded.

Mychal. This was a great idea, and a great try. There are a few problems though. The trademob is not a circle, or a counsel, or even a council.
You have received the opinions of a half a dozen folks who have not spent 20 hours in a 'tradecircle' in the last twenty years, or ever. And another halfdozen with less experience. And a few with the inability to debate. The truth is trade 'circle' is out of control. It should have a full scale shantisena pulled on it.
It is propped up by folks who could not be talked into digging thier own shitter. Usually they dont have one. They don't have a garbage. They might have a fire, but you will have to DONATE the shovel, and bucket and water it takes to maintain a fire. If you ask them to to move for main circle they will laugh and say they were here first, and there are no rules at a rainbow gathering, aint that right Phuck?

If you would like i will quote the years all those events happened. #

[peaceful]

Yes, Patch you're right on target, "trade 'circle' is out of control", and it is largely a blissaninny excuse to sit and look like you're doing something useful. In my opinion, no new raps are going to change it. Some of the traders may help out at a kitchen, or clean-up, or supply runs, etc, and that is the best you can hope for. As far as solutions, many people including myself, make signs from re-used cardboard which as least appeal to the masses to help with recycling, or litter, or at least disappearing cigarette butts. I'm not fooling myself that it does much, but it might raise a tiny bit of awareness, some of the signs are colorful and artistic in their own right. I guess it would be funny to make and trade artistic signs that said things like "Good hippies dig shitters", or "The Kewl Hippies stay for Clean-up and the Best Kick-downs". It would be best to keep it positive. You can also make personal appeals to traders, but frankly you're gonna get a lot of "Are you trying to slave me?" or "Smoke me out" energy. The whole point of being a trader is always getting something back immediately, and preferably a profit, karma doesn't enter into the picture. Ultimately there are enough people who realize there are things that need doing. So, acceptance of the traders is part of the reality, they think they are part of the entertainment, so you might as well enjoy it somewhat.

[!wAly]

Watch out for Ed Haffaman aka Sir Edmund the green He is a thief. He is a bearded long hiared guy in his 50s. He tries to do work shops on living with out working.
He gets people agravated enough to hit him and then black males them treatening to a call the cops.Warn others about him.

[hippiestead]

all any of us can do to change the mode of trade circle is to keep doing the things we feel are helpful and refuse to trade with people who are profiteering.

ya know what, we never smoke out anyone who's fishing for nugs but our kitchen crew always stays in their preferred states of mind. reward folks who are working in any way you can (even if it's just a hug & a thank you) & they'll continue to be good workers; and when someone at trade circle or on the trail hits you up for smokes or whatever, suggest that they plug into a kitchen

[papabear]

AH, sitting in trade circle on a nice sunny afternoon. Up in the Seirra Nevada'a kickin it with the kids. Over here a librarian trades away books for stories, I heard some great ones. This guy has some cool rocks and fossils, where did they come from? Wow we relived some great memories there. This guy has food, how shwag, so we pass him by. I sit with the people, it's great to swap stories and to see each other again. It's fun to bless the children, to give them a story, or a trinket, and see thier little faces shine with excitement.
I know it is a little too exciting for some, thats not why they came into the woods in the first place. But it is an important and fun part of the gathering for others. It's my chance to meet up wit people. Not all traders are blissninies, or walmart. There is lots of beautiful items. Some of my most special and meaningful stuff came from gatherings.
There are good traders out there, as mentioned. People giving things away, people helping out. It does get out of control sometimes, but I'm not sure what is the best way to go about changing that other than trying to set a good example. As I have heard that mentioned already a few times on this thread. Yelling at people and demanding is not usually a good way to go. So lets all deep setting a good example and not trade with those we find offensive, but kindly suggest ideas toward a better vibe.

[rastapatch]

I have confronted the trade circle head on before. In michigan ('02?).
We were saving one small meadow for main circle, the traders said that's too bad we are here now. We said counsel was here first, they said too bad this is a rainbow gatherng and we can do what we want.
There was dog shit all over the ground and the traders wouldn't even pick it up (that's not my dogs shit, my dog shits in the woods). They didn't have a compost or garbage, but were trading food, and compost and trash were everywhere.
They wanted to trade all night, since the trade circle was accessable that year to locals driving in with more beer, candy, and cigs. They built a fire so thier customers could keep warm while they traded by flashlight, but they had no shovel, bucket or water. Everybody said 'thats not my fire' but they kept getting wood for it night after night. I asked around and got them a shovel and bucket. They watered thier dogs with it, lost the shovel (or traded it), and never even smoked me out.
We got some old men together (6) and went to talk to them, and got the run around. We tried to call a shantisena, but there were more kids (chaos) acting stupid in the parking lot, and we ended up having to bandage some kids head, and put out a plastic fire.
They also didn't have a shitter so folks were shitting behind the bushes and leaving the paper on the ground (this happens every year in trade circle). When we mentioned this one fellow said he would put a crew together. That's when we found out they had 'lost' the shovel. The shitter never got dug.

If you don't believe me, go to a big trade circle at the nationals and ask for a work crew to set up a shitter and compost and recycling station for them. Go there at noon and watch most folks trail off to eat (in shifts so no customers are missed), then come straight back. Watch them as they do that everyday. Call a shanitsena and see that only the two folks with handmade stuff even get up.

The problem with trade circle is the same problem with A-camp and Lot. They have no circle/counsel. There is no peer value placed on counsel, just on capitalism. I am not talking about the few folks who trade a little and then go dig, i am talking about the majority who trade. The majority trades every day, and does little else.
This has to do with the feds and the permit and everything. The reason for the permit/cops is because the folks can't/won't do the right thing. I think the counsel should be considered our system of address, and if you don't have a circle then maybe THEY (non circlers) need cops.
Capitalist only respond to reward and punishment. If you pay them not to trade (profit) they will stop, but if they can still trade somewhere else without getting caught they will lie and do it, until they get caught and punished.

I am not talking about the few little blissninnies that want to give away cookies. Real traders don't come on these forums, because they don't really care about rainbow during the rest of the year.

It is a sin to profit at a rainbow gathering. #

[poorphucker]

You have a great way of putting words to things that I cannot begin to even think of how to describe.

:)

Az

[rastapatch]

It takes me an hour or more to write a post like that. My wife loves me but sometimes she wonders why it matters that i type to a poor phucker who might not even be listening. But you know she knows love lovely love, love.

Are you coming to the colorado gathering this year?

[poorphucker]

I won't be coming down. When I have to cross the border, I always have to hike. Now that I have a child, my priorities have changed, and I do not feel comfortable making the hike like I used to. Getting caught and sitting in jail would not be too helpful for our family. Plus we just recently got my immigration application going again, and would not risk messing it up.

We will be at the Quebec gathering though :) and are eagerly awaiting it's arrival!

My other half and son will be shooting down to Maine to see David Grisman in a few months.

She used to want to go to a US gathering, maybe she will one day :) when it is back out this way!

Az

[hippiestead]

Hey Rastapatch, you know that trade circle isn't the only place with problems as far as shitters & fires are concerned, those are problems all over the Gathering. In MO'96, Krishna kitchen set up across the meadow from It's a Beautiful Day @ Popcorn Palace & they kept sending people over to use the shitters that our kitchen dug & to make matters worse the trade row by our kitchen was using the shitters our crew dug. Our '96 shitter digger crew deserved a f#%*ing medal for all the shitters they dug!!! In MT'00, a coffee kitchen set up 20ft from where our shitter was & refused to move when we told them that they were camped by a shitter that had been in use for a week or more. What about the crazy fires in AZ'97 during the burn ban?!?!

As far as A-camp goes, we've heard that things have changed drastically since our last Gathering...there used to be councils of a sort in A-camp...not your typical feather passing councils, mind you, but there was a form of respectful communication in A-camp & between A-camp & the Main Gathering.

Yeah Rainbow isn't a perfect utopia, but it's better than being in the middle of Babylon. The biggest thing we've learned from running a kitchen all those years is that the best lessons are the ones learned by following good examples....the running theme here, keep setting good examples.

A smile of a Rainbow note here...a young brother came up to us in MT and asked if he could be a part of the kitchen crew, after he shared sacrament with all in the circle and offered all a zuzu. Several days later, we asked the brother who had turned him on to Rainbow world. He said close friends had told him about Rainbow then added 'Yep, they said find a kitchen where you like the people and the vibe' He laughed and told us "They said that I should share sacrament with the crew and offer whatever help the kitchen needs." All we can say is we sure wish others showed up at their first Gathering with teachers such as this brother had! He was an excellent worker too!!

[rastapatch]

First let me add that i think there is more good than bad.

The reason focused on trade circle is that was the name of the thread, and i agree with what you said. I also believe that sometimes the attempt to let folks do whatever can lead to the blind leading the blind and the knowledgable being held hostage to fix it all later.
Not that i think there should be leaders and laws. I think folks should become more involved in sharing thier common sense earlier in the moment. And more folks should share thier opinion in 'calm groups'.
Sometimes One person cannot tell another person what to do, but a big enough group with enough calm sense can almost always talk sense into a folk.

That's my suggestion. PEER INTERACTION.

[merlinclark]

thank you for an excellent point papabear.
thank you all who have participated in our fair and loving exchanges.
off to flo 2morrow. see u all at home