Monogomy, yay or nay

[grimjivey]

Monogomy, is it a natural expression of true love, or an unnatural standard set long ago by the Christian church?

I vote the church one...

[Hikaru Zero]

Monogamy and polygamy are both natural.

Ideally, a monogamy would be my preference. But, realistically, I think I'd prefer polygamy a lot more.

[Bella_Donna]

I think the old fashioned notion of monogomy is beautiful. However, living out that dream is not possible for everyone, I believe.

[JerryGarciasGuitar]

^yeah some people can't pull it off.

People in a relationship need to have a very similar sex drive if they want to be monogamous.

I don't see it as an inherently good thing. I think in order to think that you have to have a certain opinion on what the nature of sex is. If both partners think of sex as a very physical thing and seperate it psychologically from when they make love(because i think theres a difference, being that the latter has a certain emotional aspect not present in the former) then they can have a sexually open relationship. If not then you have a problem.

Different people have varying viewpoints on this subject and none of them are necessarily wrong. I happen to think its red bicycle/blue bicycle. But i think even in this day the vast majority of society would disagree with me and pre-judge me as a piece of shit for advocating sexually open relationships.

As liberal as people are now when it comes to the sex lives of singles, they are still quite traditional in their viewpoints of sex in relationships. I brought this topic up at a more mainstream board and I was demonized by a hord of women as some sort of horrible mysognist(sp?). And they seemed to insist that all women agreed with them. :rolleyes

Ladies, why is that many women seem to think they can speak for all women?

[ponydozer]

Ladies, why is that many women seem to think they can speak for all women?
I think its a bit like when one guy cheats on his girlfriend and his friends say nothing to the girlfriend. We like to think our sisters have our backs :) Nah I dunno, really.

I have wondered this too, I think that monogamy has been learnt by our society...I was once told by a social studies teacher that once men knew that when a woman bears a child it is because they have had sex with her, they stopped caring for 'other men's' children (whereas beforehand, the womans' brother helped her take care of the children).

Because of this, if a woman already had children, no other man would try to (mate?) with her (we're talking caveman times). And therefore she couldn't have sex with many men. After that, it developed so that women were seen as a man's property, which furthermore developed the concept of monogamy.

I dunno if she was right but it sounds believable. I think 'love' is a learnt concept as well, but I have no problem having love and monogamy in my life. I can't imagine it any other way, whether they are real or not.

[ponydozer]

And yes, I believe the church pushed it further. But it was already there before then. I dont want to sound like a feminist but I think these things are the result of a patriarchial society, which dates back to cavemen.

[FrozenMoonbeam]

I think that whatever works for you AND your partner(s) is fine fine fine. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult then whatever feels right can be right - monogamy, polygamy, just be a big cheesy and follow your heart.

Personally, i would be most comfortable with monogamy, i like the idea of being able to build a life with someone and grow old with them. But that's just me.

[stevepremo]

"Personally, i would be most comfortable with monogamy, i like the idea of being able to build a life with someone and grow old with them. But that's just me."

I have a strong, committed primary relationship, with a wonderful wife to whom I am fully committed and completely faithful, with whom I have built a life, and with whom I expect to grow old if we both live long enough. And we have a wonderful and passionate sexual connection.

And we both have secondary relationships with other lovers, from whom we also get love, and joy, and a strong heart connection, as well as sex and passion.

It's harder than monogamy, because there are more people whose feelings must be processed, and polyamory does bring up stuff! But I'm very happy with my life.

[MeMilesAway]

it's what I'm doing currently so yay. Almost 7 years in a relationship, 5 as hubsand and wife, 20 months now with baby involved. In the deep deep recess of myself, as was played out in my past, I am a slut. So ideally i would choose poly because it would most satisfy my internal desire to get lots of women naked and have my way with them.


but as long as i can make a marriage work i would never think of anything except being faithful and exclusive...thats the commitment part of monogomy that makes it cool and right on.

[lakshen]

I don't know, personally I prefer mono... I'd like to have something special with a girl, and I wouldn't want anyone else to be able to say that they'd "done" my girl...

But as to the natural or not issue, first of all there are monogamous animals, second of all... Does it really matter? We're humans, not animals... I eat meat, but my appendix tells me that I naturally once ate green stuff...
So do what you feel like I say...!?

[LuvlyLolita]

I think it depends. It's kind of strange to think that humans are supposed to "mate" with only one person (once they settle down) for the rest of their lives...
At the same time, when you fall for someone, you get that whole protectective thing where you don't want to share...
Then again, there are those that can live with sharing and it even enhances the relationship
Ok, I think it's a tough call

[tuatara]

since humans are dimorphic ,anthropological studies would suggest that humans are not monogamic ...they base this on the male of the species being bigger(dimorphism) ,hence the alpha male had all the females (plural)........most animals in nature that are monogamic are not dimorphic ,in other words both males and females are the same size..........and as with everything else ,this is my synopsis..............if you can't convince them ,confuse them ...lol

[ihmurria]

since humans are dimorphic ,anthropological studies would suggest that humans are not monogamic ...they base this on the male of the species being bigger(dimorphism) ,hence the alpha male had all the females (plural)........most animals in nature that are monogamic are not dimorphic ,in other words both males and females are the same size..........and as with everything else ,this is my synopsis..............if you can't convince them ,confuse them ...lol

Dimorphism affects a lot more than just body size, it encompasses all differences between genders for any given species.

As for monogamy and dimorphism.... do you have any links to show where you got this evidence from? any sort of proof of it that the rest of us can take a peek at?




Yay or nay.... I'm a big fan of it for myself. I can't imagine sharing myself that way with many people, it's somethign terribly important and sacred to me. Doesn't mean I'll never have threesomes or discuss these kinds of things with my partner at the time, but I definitely have a strong preference for monogamy (I like committed kinds of relationships, casual sex has never been my forte)

[grimjivey]

I've never had any threesomes nor any casual sex to speak of. I just think that a few marriages might be saved, if some flexibility were introduced, sexually speaking.

[svensenjensen]

Humans have evolved to be both monogamous and promiscuous . When our scrotum and penis size is compared to other primates we are much large than the Gorilla who picks one partner and keeps for life, The chimpanzees penis size is much larger because of the promiscuous lifestyles having to constantly fight to reproduce. So humans are just doing what we have learned to do, we can be both.

[thespeez]

Monogomy, is it a natural expression of true love, or an unnatural standard set long ago by the Christian church?

I vote the church one... I believe that monogamy was not an origional teaching of the church. With christianity gaining greater acceptance with the populace of the day, the Roman Empire saw an opportunity to infiltrate the church and promote teachings that were not spiritually motivated but politically motivated. With Romans normally practicing monogamy and with the general apathy among the public, this became the standard of the church. Here's an intersting expose on polyamory and Christian compatability:
http://www.libchrist.com/bible/compatible.html

[lovelightlisa]

i think it depends on who you're dealing with
i had a relationship with a guy and his girlfriend
i absolutely loved them both
it was a great relationship and it worked cuz we all loved eachother
i think it's 'natural' to be with whomever you feel you should be
doesnt matter if that ends up to be monogamous or polyamorous.

[Texplayboy]

Honesty is more important that Monogamy. You have to feel good about your partner's choice to be as free as you wish to be. Sex has been used to judge too many emotions and the gage we all use to measure our "love" & "trust". It is hard to be honest about what you want, and to trust that your partner will still love you.

My wife is asked why she allows me to have a girlfriend. Her answer is "because I love him". "I love you so much that sex is not the issue" is much better than "I love you, unless you sleep with someone else". We realized before we said "I DO" that most of the people we know were not being honest with each other, nor with themselves. We choose a different path, and the first three years have been wonderful, she has an option to renew every five years.

You can BET I am doing everything I can to make sure she wants to keep me. I would be nuts to let this one get away...

James

PS, I know what you are thinking.. what about the girlfriend, how fair is this to her?.. I am a person in her life that she enjoys a fun night out with. One day she will have someone who is more than a friend and our friendship will change to accommodate her new choice.

[rastapatch]

There is a lot of learning for us to do on this subject. The different control paradigms of the past have not encouraged freedom, and sex was just one of the tools.

First, monogamy only means one wife. It actually addresses the woman as not part of the discussion, only the object of it. The same is true of polygamy, which is why polygamy is illegal (it is unfair to women).
Polygamy means more than one wife, and again doesn't ask the woman, but tells her.

Polyamory means more than one love, and does not definitively include nor include sex or marraige
POLYFIDELITY is a word that more folks should know. It means more than one commitment. In polyfidelity (my preference) both the man and the woman have the choice to start a relationship, but are still 'required' to behave in a fidelitous manner; with dating, courtship, engagement and other traditions being acknowledged and enjoyed.

Almost all of my relationships in my life have been polyfidelitous.

Monogamy is much more popular with young folks, who practice it like "serial monogamy" and are not always safe. It is also popular with older folks, who have already had enough "serial monogamy" and are ready to 'settle down'. To me it all too often looks like sef delusionment.
I'm all for folks doing what they want (with eternity in thier hearts), but i do not remember very many "monogamous" relationship that were %100 successful. Most either had 'mistakes' or lies of occaisions or etc.
I prefer to be honest with myself and my spouses about my occaisions, than have to lie or call them mistakes.

[lovelightlisa]

Hey, rastapatch great post!

"I prefer to be honest with myself and my spouses about my occaisions, than have to lie or call them mistakes."

I totally agree with you on this.

[evil lesbian]

i think that monogamy is fine and dandy if it's mutual and not grudgingly. i think i speak for most when i say that during the phase of initial passion it is not exactly difficult to be monogomous i mean chances are you and you other were all over eachother at the beginning but it does die down and that is where the dedication comes from. when the sex isn't as free and impulsive as it once was and so i don't think it is right to bind someone you truely love into a monogomous relationship unless you intend to provide all the passion that they would be recieving with multiple partners

[mighty_thor]

The open-minded part of me wants to say "whatever works for you."

HOWEVER,

I really don't see how any poly-anything could work on a long-term basis. This opinion is not based on any preconceptions, or moral models, or anything like that. It is based on personal, gut-level experience.

When you are with someone in a physical way, it does such a number on your emotions, that I can't imagine going off and doing something with someone else. That person that you're with becomes precious to you, on a very primal level. (At least, that's how it works for me, in my limited experience.)

Yes, I'm reading this forum about folks who live differently, and I'm trying to understand and learn. In a fantasy world, the idea of free love is appealing, but in reality, my gut tells me that it can never work for the long haul. This is one of those lessons that surprised me. But then life has a way of teaching you lessons that you don't expect to learn.

[rastapatch]

Thor, you say you read these post, did you read mine?

I said nothing about free love. I spoke of polyfidelity.

To say it 'can't' work is to not know about the history of it. It HAS worked. In fact it has worked for me.

[rastapatch]

Oh, and Lisa,

You are SHINEY !

[lovelightlisa]

Oh, and Lisa,

You are SHINEY !


:D !!!

[Ghostman]

i think that monogamy is fine and dandy if it's mutual and not grudgingly.
People should do what makes them happiest. Personally I'd settle for any sort of -ogamy at this point, but the specific sort is open for negotiation. Penn & Teller have that show on Showtime where they debunk myths and such, one of them is on the concept of monogamy and true love (there's another one on sex myths, as well); pretty interesting stuff.

[mighty_thor]

rasta,

I did read your post, and I understand what you say about polyfidelity (as opposed to free love). I know that many people say that it works for them, and I wish you all well.

I was just writing about my own, viceral knowlege that I can't live that way. I've been with the same, great woman for over two years, and I can't imagine that either of us could continue the relationship if the other one wanted to bring in a third party.

Sleeping around if you're not in a relationship might be nice, and as long as everyone understands the rules. I have those fantasies too, but I don't think it could ever work for me. Physical intimacy produces an emotional connection that calls for an exclusive relationship. It's not anything that I could have predicted, and I'm not moralizing, it's just my observation.

[rastapatch]

That was a little more clear, but not much.

When you communicate you say never when you mean two years, can't when you mean preference, and us when you mean yourself. Those habits will serve you better in monogamy.
You also say sleeping around in a post addressed to me. If you think polyfidelity has anything to do with sleeping around you are wrong.

In my guidlines two years is just a courtship. Most of my relationships have lasted between 7 and 20 years. Before i would consumate (with coitus. Kissiing and petting is allowed earlier) a relationship we would first need to date, then say we wanted to consumate our relationship, and THEN courtship for six months. After that time we would plan a very special event for the consumation of our relationship.
Done this way a relationship builds trust. When i date a new girl my 'wives' do not think i am 'fucking' a stranger. They trust me because i showed restraint when i courted them.

These have been my guidlines my entire life, and have served me well. The only problem i have ever had was folks who could not understand it.

I always feel like i wrote to much, and sound like a soapbox preacher. sorry.

[DancerAnnie]

Polygomy or polyfidelity could never work for me. Call me selfish, but I just don't want to share something that special with someone else. I feel sex is an intimate thing between two people that is another way of us expressing our love for someone...not something you simply just throw around like a dirty rag. It is my personal opinion and if others want to do it, it's fine...for me...it's not.

[stevepremo]

DancerAnnie wrote: "I feel sex is an intimate thing between two people that is another way of us expressing our love for someone...not something you simply just throw around like a dirty rag."

I agree that sex is an intimate thing between two (or more) people, and that it is a way of expressing love. It is sacred and bonding and connecting. I'm not interested, myself, in getting very sexual with people unless I'm in relationships with them.

And I also know that my lovers and I are capable of deeply loving more than one person without detracting from our love for the others. In fact, supporting my loves in their other relationships is, itself, an expression of my love for them.

In other words, polyamory has *everything* to do with using sex as an intimate expression of love, and *nothing* to do with throwing sex around like a dirty rag.

[DancerAnnie]

DancerAnnie wrote: "I feel sex is an intimate thing between two people that is another way of us expressing our love for someone...not something you simply just throw around like a dirty rag."

I agree that sex is an intimate thing between two (or more) people, and that it is a way of expressing love. It is sacred and bonding and connecting. I'm not interested, myself, in getting very sexual with people unless I'm in relationships with them.

And I also know that my lovers and I are capable of deeply loving more than one person without detracting from our love for the others. In fact, supporting my loves in their other relationships is, itself, an expression of my love for them.

In other words, polyamory has *everything* to do with using sex as an intimate expression of love, and *nothing* to do with throwing sex around like a dirty rag.
I guess I just can't...or rather choose not to.

[GypsyPriestess]

I say, for myself, nay to monogamy. It simply will not work for me. I love my husband to death, but I cannot thrive in a purely monogamous relationship.

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

Sex is a phsyical. Love is emotional. The two together are absoutly wonderful, but they are absolutly not the same thing. Sex consists of drives to want other partners and can be brought on by sight. Love consists of getting closer to other people and is more brought on by involvoing that person more into your life.

Women tend to not understand this as much as males because I believe due to the fact they don't have as strong physical 'urges' as males. So there's a lot of controversey here due to that.

I'm not saying you have to have sex all over the place with everyone you think is attaractive. But it's important to understand that sex is a base need and itsn't anway contected to love which is a desire rather than a need.

However it isn't okay for a man to sneak around and feel all macho because he cheated on his girl and she doesn't know it and he'll do it again too. This is more about abuse and lying. Trust is exteamly important in a relationship. If you're sneaking around there's an extream problem!

But however if you are compleatly open with your partner and understand the other and still see other people, to me there's nothing wrong with that. If everyone is okay with it then there isn't a problem and actually you'd be surprised at how much more it can deepen a relationship. (it can't however fix a broken relationship)

Me and my boyfriend have actually brung other people into the bedroom with us and he's seen other people on the side and I have ocasionally myself. But because we are so open and expressive with each other, nothing is hidden. He doesn't have to feel like he needs to lie to me when he finds another girl or guy attractive. It's actually fun to further learn about your partner when you are able to talk about what they find attractive without feeling offended.

And besides just because you are having sex with other people doesn't kill the love or make it seem less singnificant. With me and my boyfriend we've actually gained a new found apreciation for the other. When your with someone else it only makes you realize how much you love and enjoy that other person. You never feel trapped and if anything makes you want to be with that person even more!

I think that has to do with a lot of failed marriages. A lot of times a relationship can be going well but when they marry all they can think about is "omg, I'm going to be with this person only all my life!" And then you start thinking about what you can't have verses what you have.

However when you are with someone in an open relationship the trapped feeling is gone and when you can have anything you want, you are more likely to have what you favor the most and you rarely think about what you can't have verses what you can.

The biggest issue with society today is that there's a lot of pressure to be with one person exculsivly and that sex=love or that in a relationship sex=love so no sex with anyone you don't love. But really that isn't natural or true at all and the only thing you are doing is denying yourself of what could be a wonderful relationship if you wouldn't cage it up all the time.

Besides, if you truly love someone, set them free. Why does society always feel the need to own things and be so selfish. I just find it so crazy. Why wouldn't you want the one you love to be happy and able to explore his/her desires to the fullest? It's such an issue of control! All other aspects in trying to control someone in a relationship is bad so why is okay for this one thing?

Sorry for the long post. This kind of thing always makes me so crazy! And this is coming from a female.

[DancerAnnie]

Maybe the one you're with fulfills everything you need in a person. Then you don't need more than one person, now do you?

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

Maybe the one you're with fulfills everything you need in a person. Then you don't need more than one person, now do you?


You are most likely talking about emotinal needs which is enterily differntant than physical like I was trying to explian. Because if not, do you not find anyone else beside your partner attractive? Are you saying that if you are in love with someone all natural, base insticts suddenly disappear? That all of a sudden a man who natrually thinks about having sexual desires by just seeing an attractive body suddenly disappears? That doesn't make sense. Because if you seriously doubt that, show a man whose married for x amount of years a porno magazine. He's gonna have desires that aren't attached to his wife.

[DancerAnnie]

You are most likely talking about emotinal needs which is enterily differntant than physical like I was trying to explian. Because if not, do you not find anyone else beside your partner attractive? Are you saying that if you are in love with someone all natural, base insticts suddenly disappear? That all of a sudden a man who natrually thinks about having sexual desires by just seeing an attractive body suddenly disappears? That doesn't make sense. Because if you seriously doubt that, show a man whose married for x amount of years a porno magazine. He's gonna have desires that aren't attached to his wife.
I bet there are men out there that get their needs fulfilled physically as well from one partner. That's why I think this polygomy thing is a crock...it's all about physical needs...not emotional ones. And if that's the case, the guy or the girl is just using the "extra" person to fulfill those needs that their partner isn't fulfilling...and that's a slap in the face if you look at it that way.

I say, if the person you're with can't satisfy ALL your needs (which, come on people, be realistic here)...then you need to dump them and find someone else. Because I DO believe that there is at least one person out there that CAN.

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

I bet there are men out there that get their needs fulfilled physically as well from one partner.


Well if they weren't getting their physical needs fulfilled then they'd not bother having sex with that person anymore no would they? They can get satisified by their partner but just because you're satisfied with something shouldn't mean you get trapped by it.

Let me put it to you this way. Let's compare sex with eating which is also a base need and works very similar to all base needs. There was a study conducted that if you put a person in a room and told them they could have every single sweet on the table BUT Oreos, they'd want to eat the oreos. They also did it the oposite way that you can't have any sweet on the table BUT the Oreos and people wanted to eat anything but the oreos even if oreos were their favorite. Conclusion? That people want to be free. They always desire things they can't have. And even if they have it they desire something else they can't have. It's just human nature.

Now pick out your favorite food. It could be absoutly anything. And then someone tells you, you have to eat ONLY that food for all meals for the rest of your exisistance. You may think it's absoutly great at first but then the taste gets boring and bland. You may not care about eating after while and then may even start dreading it. Then you start to look on to people who are eating other things. You start to crave the other foods.

However if you were to be able to eat anything you wanted, you would apreciate that food all the more. Probably still eat that food the most and find it still the most delicious and never dread but always absolutly enjoy that food every time you ate it.

So how does that compare to sex? Study how sex in marriage works. It starts off everyday and then slowly dwindles down to once a week to once a month then to maybe even not at all or scarely exsistant. Then what? Those people are still going to have desires for sex (since it's a base need like eating) and they're going to go off cheating or end the marriage in a divorce.

All you have to do is swap the favorite food with a lover and there you go. Just because someone is eating a food besides their favorite doesn't mean they don't love the favorite the most or don't apreciate it. It's the same with people, just because someone has sex with other people doesn't mean they don't love to do it with them or aren't satisfied with it. It's just natural to want something that isn't always the same or else it get's to scedualed, boring, and extreamly unapreciated since it's taken for granted.


and that's a slap in the face if you look at it that way.


It's only the slap in the face if you're absoutly untrusting and insecure in your relationship.

which, come on people, be realistic here
Actually I think it's you who needs to be realistic. You obviously live in a fairy tale fantasy land shoved upon you by the society's out look on life. Espeically girl's in our society were raised to think sex=love. But realisiticly it's NOT. It's a base instinict that is enforced to ensure the survival of the species. It has nothing to do with love. When you have sex with a random person you don't fall in love with them. Or else are you saying that when a girl gets raped they'll fall in love with them? It's something else entierly differnt that often gets confused because of the emotion that can get evoked with it.

Seriously I think it's sad society forces men to constantly lie to their women about how they are feeling. The base drive of sex is so much more promininent for them it's difficult for them to ignore it. It's like being absolutly starving and watching a hamburger walk by and knowing all you can only eat is a carrot.

I'm not saying you have to have sex with differnt people. But it's extreamly important to understand the nature of men or else you'll probably get seriously hurt when you realize the truth behind all the lies. And really I seriously doubt I'll ever convince you. But that's your world and not mine.

[DancerAnnie]

Let me just say,

Not everyone is the same and I am in a relationship that is very healthy all on its own. We don't need other people to be happy in our relationship. We are satisified in every way. If I can find someone like that, anyone can.

I'm not equating sex with love...LOL that's ridiculous. I just think that sex is a sacred thing that should be shared with someone that you love, not every Tom Dick and Harry, just because you're attracted to them. For Christ's sake, show some self restraint.

I don't care what others do in their bedroom. I just choose not to and I'm sorry but anything you throw at me isn't going to change my mind. I'm FAR from insecure, especially in my relationship. I'm not a jealous person or controlling by any means...I just choose to be in a relationship without involving others.

Also, sex in marriage doesn't ALWAYS dwindle. That's ridiculous. I know a lot of people who have been married for years...including my grandparents who have been married for 52 years who still have a very active sex life (trust me, they talk about it way too much).

How is it not a slap in the face to want someone else? "Sorry, Sally, I want to have sex with someone else, you're just not fulfilling all of my needs." sheesh, talk about selfish :rolleyes: . Why not try to work on things with your partner instead of looking elsewhere? If you're not happy in a specific part of the relationship, work on it!

I'M living in a fairy tale? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That's HILARIOUS! You're the one that wants to be able to have sex with many different women! Talk about living in a fantasy world. If one person makes you happy, why do you need to look elsewhere????

So, you're saying, that women should just suck it up and let there men have sex with other women??? Haven't women been degraded enough in history? Oh, so men have NEEDS, so we as women should let them be fulfilled by others...

Sheesh...you're crazy.

Also...I find it extremely difficult to compare food with love. Love is a deep feeling...not an object.

[hippychickmommy]

Go Annie!

[greengoddess]

I think monogomy is great if that's what you both want.. me and my husband both have agreed for awhile that we are both so sexual that we want to have an open relationship when it comes to sex.. we haven't had any experiences yet because we haven't found the right people but we plan to have threesomes and swing and have a good time sexually TOGETHER... I think it will ultimately help our marrige.. I'm bi and we have an agreement that if he meets a girl he finds really attractive and he thinks I'd like her we might invite her to join us.. and same goes both ways.. I'm not worried about him ever cheating on me because he doesn't have to.. I'm excited to see what we will do sexually in the future.. we have an amazing relationship..
so I think you should just do what feels right in your relationship... everyone's differant..

[DancerAnnie]

Go Annie!
Hippychick...I bet you and your husband have a really great sexual relationship don't you?

[hippychickmommy]

Hippychick...I bet you and your husband have a really great sexual relationship don't you?
Absolutely, and we've been together for almost 10 years now. :)

[greengoddess]

you two are so cute! ^^

[hippychickmommy]

Awww, thankyou greengoddess. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[greengoddess]

:)

You're good role models for young couples..

[stevepremo]

I just think that sex is a sacred thing that should be shared with someone that you love, not every Tom Dick and Harry, just because you're attracted to them. For Christ's sake, show some self restraint.

I don't care what others do in their bedroom. I just choose not to and I'm sorry but anything you throw at me isn't going to change my mind.
I certainly have no desire to change your mind! I'm glad you're happy, and I, too, believe strongly that sex is a sacred thing that I want to share with those I love. I just love more than one woman. And each of them loves more than one man.

You say that you don't care what other people do, but you also say "Show some restraint," which sounds like you are asking other people to be monogamous regardless of their desired lifestyle or orientation.

How is it not a slap in the face to want someone else?
The same way it is not a slap in the face to want another child in addition to the one you have. If my beloved also has deep feelings for her lover, that does not diminish her love for me. I don't expect it to be that way for you any more than I would expect a straight person to turn gay, but I hope you can accept that different people are oriented differently, and that one way is not "better" or "more natural" or "more loving" than another.

Monogamy is about: love, honesty, communication, trust, and connection between two people. Those qualities are not all present in every relationship, but in my experience, they are present in every *good* relationship.

Polyamory is also about: love, honesty, communication, trust, and connection between two or more people. The same qualities are necessary for it to work.

So, you're saying, that women should just suck it up and let there men have sex with other women??? Haven't women been degraded enough in history? Oh, so men have NEEDS, so we as women should let them be fulfilled by others...

Sheesh...you're crazy.
Well, yes, I quite agree. To allow the men the freedom to have multiple relationships while denying that freedom to women is quite oppressive. But I have not heard anyone advocate that in the poly community.

My impression is that you really want to be OK with people having whatever style of relationship they desire, but when people say that polyamory works for them, you feel threatened and afraid that you are being pressured to open your relationship, so you say judgmental things like "Show some restraint." But I think that in your heart, you really believe that the love I have for my lovers is a good thing, just as I am really happy that your relationship is so fulfilling to you.

Love to all,
Steve

[DancerAnnie]

My impression is that you really want to be OK with people having whatever style of relationship they desire, but when people say that polyamory works for them, you feel threatened and afraid that you are being pressured to open your relationship, so you say judgmental things like "Show some restraint." But I think that in your heart, you really believe that the love I have for my lovers is a good thing, just as I am really happy that your relationship is so fulfilling to you.

Love to all,
Steve
I'm an openminded person, I am not threatened, but I disagree with the lifestyle you live. And that is my perrogative.

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

I dunno I'd have to agree with stevepremo that you are acting threatened and judgemental. Just because you don't agree with some one doesn't mean you have to throw out flippant remarks that overexagerate my opinion:




I just think that sex is a sacred thing that should be shared with someone that you love, not every Tom Dick and Harry, just because you're attracted to them.

You act like I'm having sex with everyone I've seen on the street. It's not like that. For one thing that would be extreamly unsafe. I'm not having sex with compleate strangers either. They're always someone that I trust or that my boyfriend trusts and I trust my boyfriend's opinion on who's safe. Besides I've only had sex with 4 people including my boyfriend and that's a lot less than some other people that I know that have sex exclusivly with their partners.

For Christ's sake, show some self restraint. If you're truly open minded you really wouldn't tell me what to do. I don't expect you to suddenly go into my life style as you should expect me to go into yours. I really wouldn't want you to if you are extreamly unconfortable in doing so. You gotta do what's best for you and what's most confortable for you.


Also, sex in marriage doesn't ALWAYS dwindle.
I never said always. But I believe the satistics of how sex is in most dwindling relationships have the same effect. Besides most relationships don't make it that long anyways. Isn't the divorce rate 52% now?


How is it not a slap in the face to want someone else? "Sorry, Sally, I want to have sex with someone else, you're just not fulfilling all of my needs." sheesh, talk about selfish :rolleyes: . Why not try to work on things with your partner instead of looking elsewhere? If you're not happy in a specific part of the relationship, work on it!
You are blowing my opinion out of proportion. It simply isn't like that at all. Me and my boyfriend fufil each others needs and it has nothing to do with being dissatisfied in any way shape or form. It might be hard for you to understand but a person can be satisfied with someone in a relationship but still see other people. Take friendship for example. You can have a great time with them and just because you have more than one friend doesn't mean you are dissatisfied with your orginal friend or best friend... it's just that you simply have another. Besides your relationship with your partner shouldn't be affect by other people.

I'M living in a fairy tale? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That's HILARIOUS! You're the one that wants to be able to have sex with many different women! Talk about living in a fantasy world. If one person makes you happy, why do you need to look elsewhere????My dear, I believe you are being really defensive or childish in this. You choose. I really don't apreciate your rude commentary and the only reason why I said you lived in a fairy tale was because you comment it on my first.


So, you're saying, that women should just suck it up and let there men have sex with other women??? Haven't women been degraded enough in history? Oh, so men have NEEDS, so we as women should let them be fulfilled by others...
Absoltuly not. I was just using men as an example since it's more prominant in them. If you don't feel comfortable with that set up your partner should know it. Whatever rules you have set up in a relationship should be followed if that's seeing just one person or whatever. As I said in one of my eariler posts just because they do have those needs doesn't mean they should go around and cheat on you. Then they'd be lying and clearly hurting your feelings without thinking of you and being rather selfish and breaking the importance of trust the foundation in a relationship. Also the street is too ways. IF the man is allowed to see whoever then so should the woman or else it's a control issue.


Sheesh...you're crazy.

Also...I find it extremely difficult to compare food with love. Love is a deep feeling...not an object.
Again, I don't apreciate your flippant childish remarks. An openminded person doesn't call someone "Crazy" just because their opinion is differnt.

A comparasin is a comparasin and as long as the point and message is made across clear it doesn't really matter what is being used to comapre. And it was food with sex not love.

[DancerAnnie]

Say what you mean. Mean what you say.

And by the way...it's COMPARISON :rolleyes:

I'm childish? Yeah, OK. Whatever you say LOL.

[brightness]

I say yay for monogamy, and it works for me. It doesn't work for everyone and I realize that- but I think its important for monogamous people to seek out other people interested in monogamy and for polygamous people to seek out those kinds of relationships, too. That would be ideal.

[Texplayboy]

It sounds like the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". If someone is making Monogamy work, then more power to them. If you are with your first lover, then you are monogamist. If you are not, then you have to question if you are really a monogamist. Everything from there is a shade of grey.

The real issue should be honesty. People choose an open lifestyle for many reasons. Sometimes it is so they can participate in a bi-sexual relationship, and still enjoy a life partner. If a couple both agree to whatever works from them, no one should be in judgment of that.

It sounds like most of the "bashing" of polygamy is based on a fear of someone breaking their trust. Society has become polygamist more than monogamist, but few are honest about it. So the fear is justified.

For all of you who have only had ONE LOVER, and hold on to the true sense of Monogamy, more power to you, I wish you all the happiness and hope that it is mutually respected. At fifteen, I wish I had that much will power, maturity and forethought.

I realize that I will take some criticism on my narrow view of monogamy, but Monogamy means ONE LOVER. We have adjusted that to ONE LOVER AT A TIME. Time is a shifting perspective. SO if you have ONE Lover, but not your first lover, and you go back to an old lover, after breaking up with the newer (now old) lover, is that monogamy? And then you go back to the old lover again, a year later. A week, a day, an hour? Time makes it all subjective. Beginning to see my point?

Food for thought,
James

[lynsey]

I like monogamy for the simple fact that I could never stay with a man who was okay with having others inside of me and I know myself and when i don't feel like I'm kept the way I need to be I get really immature and self-destructive.

[rg paddler]

Monogomy, is it a natural expression of true love, or an unnatural standard set long ago by the Christian church?

I vote the church one...

I vote for monopoly

[mexicatl]

POLYGAMY ALL THE WAY, makes the most sense, more of everything to share, helps ease burdens, more security, less power struggles, more hands to share the labor, more hearts to share the love, more heads to share the ideas, etc, etc. If you can leave the idea of stereotypes then you have a chance. And remember fidelity is still the same!!

[rastapatch]

**** If you are with your first lover, then you are monogamist. If you are not, then you have to question if you are really a monogamist.****

Tex, i can see that you're really trying, and i appreciate that. I feel like you are smart enough, and contrite enough, to understand what i am trying to say. If you would like you can go read my first (second?) post in this thread.
you bring up a good point that i have also considered, and around here we call it 'serial monogamy'. But in truth monogamy does not mean one lover, it means only one wife. Still it is true that most folks i know who are 'mono' go through as many lovers in a ten year period as most of my 'poly' friends. A lot of the folks with firm opinions on this thread have not been having sex that long, and SHOULD be 'mono'.

***The real issue should be honesty. People choose an open lifestyle for many reasons. Society has become polygamist more than monogamist, but few are honest about it. So the fear is justified.***

Polygamist means more than one wife, and is oppressive in that it does not offer the same options to the woman. And where i think 'polyamory' is a stylish word nowadays, i think it is often just a word for debauchery. Polyfidelity is nearly an unknown word even in this thread.

***I realize that I will take some criticism on my narrow view of monogamy, but Monogamy means ONE LOVER. ***

It means one wife, which is a rather judeo concept (wife) that does not really exist in many cultures (though the judeans will tell you it exist everywhere) which is inherently defined "till death do us part". You can have 500 lovers at the same time as you are monogamous, but as i say; most folks are so brainwashed by the existing power structure that the word polyfidelity is barely used. Even in a thread on mono vs poly, on a forum used exclusively by the counterculture.
You seem pretty smooth though, i bet you get it first shot.

[koopa]

Big Yay on Monogamy.....cheaters hurt people and never make any relationship work to its full potential.

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

A lot of the folks with firm opinions on this thread have not been having sex that long, and SHOULD be 'mono'.


Why "should" I have to do anything a particular way if what I'm doing works for me? What does having sex for any particular amount of time have to do with someone's views on a relationship?


If you are with your first lover, then you are monogamist. If you are not, then you have to question if you are really a monogamist.

While one can consider this... because times have changed so has the concept of marriage and the idea of one lover. People can divorce now a days as compared to before so there is no longer a "death do us part" type of thing anymore. Considering one lover to be one lover in a life time would be rediculous in this day and age. It doesn't fit into this lifestyle anymore and the idea of "One lover at a time" is now what relplaces that concept.

[koopa]

Why "should" I have to do anything a particular way if what I'm doing works for me? What does having sex for any particular amount of time have to do with someone's views on a relationship?
because having sex involves another person. Its not a self contained act so what works for you may not be working as well for your partner. For example (not the best example, but relevant), smoking cigarettes in public may work for you but it effects the people around you so it is outlawed in most places. If you only care about yourself then have sex with yourself. If you want to ignore others feelings then so be it. Have fun when it happens to you at a time or with a person you don't want it to ......

[SkeeterVT]

Monogomy, is it a natural expression of true love, or an unnatural standard set long ago by the Christian church?

I vote the church one...Monogamy is most definitely an invention of the Chrtistian church. In Islam, a man can have as many as four wives. Mormons were forced to give up polygamy as the price for Utah's admission into the U.S.

Monogamy was designed as a means to control the sexual behavior of men, since men -- like the males of almost every other species on Earth -- are "hard-wired" by Nature to mate with as many females as possible to preserve the species.

Don't believe me? Consider the fact that in the overwhelming majority of divorce cases in which "infidelity" is cited as the reason for the divorce, it's the husband who's the "infidelitous" one in 90 percent of those cases.

And even among unmarried couples, the male partner is far more likely to "cheat" than the female partner is.

If you've ever been to a "swingers" club or party, you've no doubt noticed that there were far more men in attendance than women.

Right here on this very thread, the majority of those who have expressed a preference for monogamy are women, while the majority of those who favor polyamory are men.

As a man who's been "out of the closet" for nearly 30 years -- the last 13 years as bisexual -- I defy anyone to prove to me that same-sex male couples (especially those under age 40) are monogamous. My male partner of 20 years and I certainly aren't. We never have been and we never will be (Even though at fiftysomething, we have nowhere near the libido we had when we were twentysomething). And while I can't speak for all bisexuals, I can tell you that for THIS bi male, monogamy most definitely does NOT work; I'd be feeding only one side of my sexuality while starving the other side.

I think it's time for our society to finally admit that men are polyamorous by Nature and centuries of enforced monogamy cannot alter that.

-- Skeeter

[rastapatch]

Big Yay on Monogamy.....cheaters hurt people and never make any relationship work to its full potential.
Koopa, There is no cheating in implied in any form of 'poly'. Cheating is just lying. Mono folks often call all types of things cheating. They do this to put a negative moral implication on things, thereby elevating themselves and their choices beyond the question of choice and into the realm of 'already decided, and i am right".

Raven, i did not say YOU should anything. I allowed that a lot of young folks respect their innocence and that such respect makes sense when you are innocent. It was me noticing a paralell between two facts and spoke of noticing both. I did not tell anyone what to do. Nor did i imply my authority to do so.
I only point out that is it no surprise that folks who were virgins for most of twenty years, and virginless for only a few, are more prone to limiting the amount of partners; thereby maintaining their continuity of personality. Those with more years on this earth as non vigins are often less adamant about the number, and sometimes follow with focusing their concern rationalizing the truths in their current situation.

On your second point, raven, i did not write that, i was responding to it.
With that said, no amount of your saying this or that will change the fact that 'till death do us part' is what judean marraige is, or that such commitment STILL does not imply monogamy (one wife). The commitment of 'till death do us part' can be fullfilled even if you are living with another woman.
You sound like a nice young man, and i don't mean to imply you should not choose for yourself. You are however young. Try to remember that i have been POLYFIDELITOUS longer than you have been on this planet. Your opinions are valid, but i am not new to this particular conversation.

Most folks that speak of poly are just using it as an excuse to have sex. If you read my first post on this thread you may learn that most folks do not even know what some of these terms mean.

I have reposted it below for your convienienc.

There is a lot of learning for us to do on this subject. The different control paradigms of the past have not encouraged freedom, and sex was just one of the tools.

First, monogamy only means one wife. It actually addresses the woman as not part of the discussion, only the object of it. The same is true of polygamy, which is why polygamy is illegal (it is unfair to women).
Polygamy means more than one wife, and again doesn't ask the woman, but tells her.

Polyamory means more than one love, and does not definitively include nor include sex or marraige
POLYFIDELITY is a word that more folks should know. It means more than one commitment. In polyfidelity (my preference) both the man and the woman have the choice to start a relationship, but are still 'required' to behave in a fidelitous manner; with dating, courtship, engagement and other traditions being acknowledged and enjoyed.

Almost all of my relationships in my life have been polyfidelitous.

Monogamy is much more popular with young folks, who practice it like "serial monogamy" and are not always safe. It is also popular with older folks, who have already had enough "serial monogamy" and are ready to 'settle down'. To me it all too often looks like sef delusionment.
I'm all for folks doing what they want (with eternity in thier hearts), but i do not remember very many "monogamous" relationship that were %100 successful. Most either had 'mistakes' or lies of occaisions or etc.
I prefer to be honest with myself and my spouses about my occaisions, than have to lie or call them mistakes.

[SkeeterVT]

First, monogamy only means one wife. It actually addresses the woman as not part of the discussion, only the object of it. The same is true of polygamy, which is why polygamy is illegal (it is unfair to women).
Polygamy means more than one wife, and again doesn't ask the woman, but tells her.

Polyamory means more than one love, and does not definitively include nor include sex or marraige
POLYFIDELITY is a word that more folks should know. It means more than one commitment. In polyfidelity (my preference) both the man and the woman have the choice to start a relationship, but are still 'required' to behave in a fidelitous manner; with dating, courtship, engagement and other traditions being acknowledged and enjoyed.

Almost all of my relationships in my life have been polyfidelitous.

Monogamy is much more popular with young folks, who practice it like "serial monogamy" and are not always safe. It is also popular with older folks, who have already had enough "serial monogamy" and are ready to 'settle down'. To me it all too often looks like self-delusionment.
I'm all for folks doing what they want (with eternity in their hearts), but I do not remember very many "monogamous" relationship that were 100% successful. Most either had 'mistakes' or lies of occaisions or etc.
I prefer to be honest with myself and my spouses about my occaisions, than have to lie or call them mistakes.Monogamy is not just having only one wife. Monogamy, as I define it, means being in a sexual relationship with one person -- and ONLY one person -- for LIFE, whether married or not.

That is utterly unnatural to me and I will never conform to that standard. It breeds distrust, jealousy and possessiveness -- the number-one destroyer of relationships.

I prefer "polyamory" to "polyfidelity" because "polyfidelity" is, in my opinion, an oxymoron. It still contains some of the restrictions of monogamy within a polyamorous relationship. And it can still breed distrust, jealousy, and possessiveness if one of the partners in a "polyfidelitous" relationship goes outside it. This, too, is unacceptable to me.

It is true that polyamory does not necessarily include or exclude marriage. But the one thing that distinguishes polyamory from polyfidelity is that polyamory cannot tolerate the distrust, jealousy and possessiveness that both monogamy and polyfidelity can breed.

It's like matter and anti-matter: Polyamory and DJP cannot peacefully co-exist.

-- Skeeter

[koopa]

i'm an agnostic monogamist that wants to give and receive an expression of true love Skeeter. Monogamy has absolutely no religious connection with me. It is a physical choice that acts simultaneously as an emotional commitment to the person I love.

[gandhiwars]

Monogamy is most definitely an invention of the Chrtistian church.

-- Skeeter
Where do you get any evidence for this? Monogamy happened to appear long before the Christian church, sorry to tell you that. Monogamy appeared in the fertile cresent (which is even before the Jewish church) as a response to the growing populations and the settling down of humans. As populations outgrew their land, society came together and tried to make new laws in which to govern the size of a village...Monogamy came out of this as an attempt to control population.
The Christian church indorces Monogamy but saying they invented it is silly and just mis-informed. As well around the world monogamy was practiced long before Christian missionaries go there.

AS well in response to your post. There are monogamous gay/same-sex couples. You are your partner may not be able to do it, but they do exist.

[rastapatch]

I just want to say that i am really a nice guy , and open minded, and i apologise if i sound rude trying to communicate in this medium.

I wish we were in the same place enjoying dinner. I think we would all get to know eachother much quicker.

I really do respect all of your opinions, and your attempt to share them.

namaste' patch

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

You sound like a nice young man, and i don't mean to imply you should not choose for yourself.


um...I'm a girl. :p

[SkeeterVT]

Where do you get any evidence for this? Monogamy happened to appear long before the Christian church, sorry to tell you that. Monogamy appeared in the fertile cresent (which is even before the Jewish church) as a response to the growing populations and the settling down of humans. As populations outgrew their land, society came together and tried to make new laws in which to govern the size of a village...Monogamy came out of this as an attempt to control population.
The Christian church indorces Monogamy but saying they invented it is silly and just mis-informed. As well around the world monogamy was practiced long before Christian missionaries go there.

AS well in response to your post. There are monogamous gay/same-sex couples. You are your partner may not be able to do it, but they do exist.
I stand corrected as to the origin of monogamy, but you nonetheless did not dispute my main point that monogamy was developed as a behavioral-control mechanism. And I still submit that to control population growth, controlling male sexual behavior was absolutely vital, since women have always outnumbered men.

Monogamous same-sex MALE couples are indeed in the minority, according to sex researchers Phillip Blumstein and Pepper Schwartz, authors of the landmark 1980 study "American Couples: Love, Work, Sex." Their study found that lesbian couples were the most monogamous and gay-male couples the most polyamorous, with unmarried hetero couples only slightly less monogamous then married hetero couples.

And as one who has had first-hand personal experience in the gay (and bi) male community for nearly 30 years, I can tell you that few same-sex male couples are strictly monogamous (and such couples tend to be well over age 40, when the libido, for many, if not most men, begins to decline).

-- Skeeter

[koopa]

Koopa, There is no cheating in implied in any form of 'poly'. Cheating is just lying. Mono folks often call all types of things cheating. They do this to put a negative moral implication on things, thereby elevating themselves and their choices beyond the question of choice and into the realm of 'already decided, and i am right". Well I'm being a lamen and when I say monogamy I mean a physical, emotional, and spiritual commitment to one and only one partner. I appreciate your explanation of the technical definition of polygamy though. I don't think its immoral to cheat, in fact I don't believe in morals. But I do know that I treat people the way I like to be treated (not because I have to, not because of some moral code guilting me into it, but because I have a natural inclanation to).

Furthermore, do not interpret this as "koopa has decided that the way he treats people is better so he looks for a moral code to assure it". The fact of the matter is that for some there is no question at all. A desire to be monogamous is an expression of love that some people feel naturally. I don't claim to be better than any polygamist and I don't claim to be right. This thread asked what I prefer and I gave my preference. It is my preference because I know how much emotional pain a love triangle can produce. I refuse to believe that one person can maintain two seperate relationships, develop them to there fullest, and make them as rewarding as possible for all parties involved.

[dietcoketree]

um...I'm a girl. :p
LOL wow that made my life haha. nice one.

[rastapatch]

Yeah, uhm, sorry Angel.
I feel pretty clutzy now. Nothing to really put a fellow in his place like that, huh?

You are very gracious. Again my apologies. I owe you one.

Ahem, you can stop laughing now dietcoketree. . . . .

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

It is my preference because I know how much emotional pain a love triangle can produce. I refuse to believe that one person can maintain two seperate relationships, develop them to there fullest, and make them as rewarding as possible for all parties involved.
But having more than one partner in polygamy is NOT a love triangle! A love triangle deals with a lot of hurt and pain like you said. It entails wondering if that person loves you or actually loves someone else and not you because there is a desire of having only one partner.

In polygamy it isn't a question on whether or not that person loves you or not. You know they do but they also love others as well (whether that be physically or emotinally or both). It isn't a backstabbing thing like with cheating. There is NO betrayal. It's an openess and understanding with all people involved. Like I said before it's like having more than one friend. You aren't going to disown your friend because they have more than one.

A lot of people who don't understand polygamy try to associate it with the idea of taking a monogamist relationship and adding in another party in which they associate with that of cheating. But it isn't like that. It's not a matter of lying or jeliousy or rejection like with cheating. Cheating usually entails something is wrong with the relationship.

In polygamy it's a basic understanding and openess and a true expression of trust. I absoultly feel not a drop of hurt when my boyfriend wants to go with a boyfriend of his nor do I get mad if I see him kissing another person. It actually makes me happy that he is happy. Because that's really all I care about is his happines and it is in no way making me sacrifice my own. The relationship between me and him shouldn't and isn't effected by other people.

Yeah, uhm, sorry Angel.
I feel pretty clutzy now. Nothing to really put a fellow in his place like that, huh?

You are very gracious. Again my apologies. I owe you one.

Ahem, you can stop laughing now dietcoketree. . . . .
Hehe. It's okay. Honest mistake. :D

[marbchic]

monogamy . . . somethign i particpate in due to the respect i have for both myself and my partner.

if i'm THAT horny and he's not around, i'll just do the job myself :p

[koopa]

But having more than one partner in polygamy is NOT a love triangle! A love triangle deals with a lot of hurt and pain like you said. It entails wondering if that person loves you or actually loves someone else and not you because there is a desire of having only one partner.

In polygamy it isn't a question on whether or not that person loves you or not. You know they do but they also love others as well (whether that be physically or emotinally or both). It isn't a backstabbing thing like with cheating. There is NO betrayal. It's an openess and understanding with all people involved. Like I said before it's like having more than one friend. You aren't going to disown your friend because they have more than one.

A lot of people who don't understand polygamy try to associate it with the idea of taking a monogamist relationship and adding in another party in which they associate with that of cheating. But it isn't like that. It's not a matter of lying or jeliousy or rejection like with cheating. Cheating usually entails something is wrong with the relationship.

In polygamy it's a basic understanding and openess and a true expression of trust. I absoultly feel not a drop of hurt when my boyfriend wants to go with a boyfriend of his nor do I get mad if I see him kissing another person. It actually makes me happy that he is happy. Because that's really all I care about is his happines and it is in no way making me sacrifice my own. The relationship between me and him shouldn't and isn't effected by other people.


Hehe. It's okay. Honest mistake. :D Well I understand your take and appreciate you taking the time to explain it so elloquently. Polygamy would fail to nuture me emotionally and psychologically. I want a love so true that there is NO DESIRE FOR ANOTHER and without that I wouldn't be satisfied. Once again I understand your position but from my perspective you are playing yourself. You are following a custom generated by some barbaric neanderthal man. Of course I'm assuming that a majority of humans share the emotional needs I possess and you claim to lack. Have you ever had any relationship where you have no desire to be with anybody else? And BTW if you want to get so technical....doesn't polygamy involve marriage? You wrote boyfriend........
If you have a boyfriend who has more than one partner I'd simply call that a non-committed relationship not polygamy. Have you ever been married to more than one man? Have you ever been married men who didn't have multiple wives? Have you ever even been married?

[ihmurria]

... And BTW if you want to get so technical....doesn't polygamy involve marriage? ...

there is that. Probably when people have been using polygamy in this thread, they mean polyamory, but it's definitely good to remember the difference

[Nolan14]

If its cool with your luvr and your such, i dont believe marriage counts for anything in the case of monogamy but If ur hubby or ur chick is cool with it knock yourself out. Myself? im dating a wonderful girl and i luv her more than enough to know that i wont need to go anywhere for any extra luvin. I stay tru and i belive that if ur dating somebody your shouldnt sleep around on them if they arent sleepin around on you lol. yeah thats my take

[koopa]

Myself? im dating a wonderful girl and i luv her more than enough to know that i wont need to go anywhere for any extra luvin. I stay tru and i belive that if ur dating somebody your shouldnt sleep around on them if they arent sleepin around on you lol. yeah thats my take i agree 100%
nice to know that the younger generation gets it too! Kinda illustrates my point that it is a natural expression of love. Unless of course Nolans a bible thumper then it could relate back to a forced morality issue :)

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

Once again I understand your position but from my perspective you are playing yourself. You are following a custom generated by some barbaric neanderthal man.


I'm not playing myself and I don't find it barbaric (nor do I appreciate such remarks). My boyfriend didn't talk me into it either. I actually aproached him upon the matter because he's bi-sexual. I felt like I'd be taking something away from him considering he desires both sexes. My only desire is for him to be happy and I think that is a show of true love.


Of course I'm assuming that a majority of humans share the emotional needs I possess and you claim to lack.

I don't know what emotional needs you're talking about. I don't have the desire to own someone or keep them selfishly to myself. I lack insecurity and jelously. But shouldn't selfishness and insecurity be lacked if you truly are in love?


Have you ever had any relationship where you have no desire to be with anybody else?

If you really think about it we have relationships with everyone. Family, friends, strangers... We relate to all of them in some way shape or form and it's impossible to NOT relate to anyone unless there is only two people in the world. So everyone has mulitple relationships. Not all of them are "the one" romance. So yes I do feel my boyfriend is my soul mate and love him very much. I love my friends as well but to a lesser extent (like most people). But the difference is I will hug, kiss, and have sex with them; I'm merely showing them the affection I have for them and I don't see any wrong to that.


And BTW if you want to get so technical....doesn't polygamy involve marriage? You wrote boyfriend........
If you have a boyfriend who has more than one partner I'd simply call that a non-committed relationship not polygamy.

I'm not trying to be technical... I just thought "polygamy" is easier to write than "a relationship with more than one person". :p

And besides I don't think the term is a matter of importance. The debate here is more than one person in a realtionship vs one person in a relationship.


Have you ever been married to more than one man? Have you ever been married men who didn't have multiple wives? Have you ever even been married?

Nope. I've never been married and I don't plan on it. I think marriage is silly, but then that's another argument.

[ihmurria]

...
I'm not trying to be technical... I just thought "polygamy" is easier to write than "a relationship with more than one person". :p

And besides I don't think the term is a matter of importance. The debate here is more than one person in a realtionship vs one person in a relationship.

...
while you're correct that the term isn't the point of the debate, most people call that POLYAMORY. -gamy means marriage, not relationship.. polyamory refers to being in love with more than one person at a time.

[koopa]

I'm not playing myself and I don't find it barbaric (nor do I appreciate such remarks). My boyfriend didn't talk me into it either. I actually aproached him upon the matter because he's bi-sexual. I felt like I'd be taking something away from him considering he desires both sexes. My only desire is for him to be happy and I think that is a show of true love.


I don't know what emotional needs you're talking about. I don't have the desire to own someone or keep them selfishly to myself. I lack insecurity and jelously. But shouldn't selfishness and insecurity be lacked if you truly are in love?


If you really think about it we have relationships with everyone. Family, friends, strangers... We relate to all of them in some way shape or form and it's impossible to NOT relate to anyone unless there is only two people in the world. So everyone has mulitple relationships. Not all of them are "the one" romance. So yes I do feel my boyfriend is my soul mate and love him very much. I love my friends as well but to a lesser extent (like most people). But the difference is I will hug, kiss, and have sex with them; I'm merely showing them the affection I have for them and I don't see any wrong to that.


I'm not trying to be technical... I just thought "polygamy" is easier to write than "a relationship with more than one person". :p

And besides I don't think the term is a matter of importance. The debate here is more than one person in a realtionship vs one person in a relationship.


Nope. I've never been married and I don't plan on it. I think marriage is silly, but then that's another argument.Well thanks for being so honest. At this point we should just agree to disagree because after your last responses I don't view you as a credible source for this debate. You are a 21 year old girl in a non-committed relationship. You ARE playing yourself. Don't you realize that your boyfriend could be a better boyfriend if he only had one relationship to focus on. Your remarks sound like the words of a brainwashed person "my only desire is for him to be happy" Sounds like you have the self esteem issues you just tried to project onto me in the last post. Don't try to tell me I am selfish / insecure / and jealous just because I know what I'm worth and won't settle for less.......keep turning a blind eye to your needs and living for somebody else sweetheart, i wish you luck as you walk down the road to your own nightmare. Say hi to the former polygamy practicing mormons for me at your support group in the future :)

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

At this point we should just agree to disagree because after your last responses I don't view you as a credible source for this debate. You are a 21 year old girl in a non-committed relationship. You ARE playing yourself. Don't you realize that your boyfriend could be a better boyfriend if he only had one relationship to focus on. Your remarks sound like the words of a brainwashed person "my only desire is for him to be happy" Sounds like you have the self esteem issues you just tried to project onto me in the last post. Don't try to tell me I am selfish / insecure / and jealous just because I know what I'm worth and won't settle for less.......keep turning a blind eye to your needs and living for somebody else sweetheart,

That's absoutly rude and uncalled for. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm wrong or have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm hardly brainwashed because I've made all these choices on my own. I know what my needs are and my boyfriend takes care of me and mine. I don't see what's wrong with living for another person. I feel that's a part of love and something you should feel when in love. If you desire that person and only that person alone wouldn't you want to fufill their needs too or is it just about your own?

I'm not trying to call you selfish or insecure. I just don't know what emotions you are trying to point out to me that you say I lack. Please explain to me or I'm just merely left in the dark.


i wish you luck as you walk down the road to your own nightmare. Say hi to the former polygamy practicing mormons for me at your support group in the future

I don't think it's very nice to say that. Let's be civil here. I don't call your ways and views a nightmare waiting to happen, so I expect the same common curtosy from you. Let's be mature here especially since you want to wave in my face how young I am.

[koopa]

your actions wave your age in my face. I'm trying to wake you up out of a coma and your complaining that shaking you is rude.....

I'm not here to make you feel warm and fuzzy about your lack of foresight, sorry.

[RavenTheDarkAngel]

I don't need waking up from anything. There's nothing wrong with having a differnece of opinion. Your way isn't right and my way isn't right. There is no right and wrong here just a differnce. So stop trying to tell me what to do or call me ignorant because I don't follow your ways.

If you want to debate with me and put forth some actual points on your views instead of calling me young/naive then maybe we can talk about it some more. I feel that understanding someone else is point of view even if you don't agree with it is the point to such debates and what I'm trying to do. So if you want me to understand your side more don't sit there and yap about how I don't know what I'm talking about, it does very little to support your argument and only shows me how rude and arrogant you are.

[koopa]

there is no debate. i said we should agree to disagree awhile ago so don't try to take credit for it. Also if you think that you are not right and I am not right, then there is no reason to debate is there? Feel free to call me rude and arrogant all you like. While I felt it necessary to point out my take on your situation (if you disagree and don't want to call it the truth then call it the worst case scenario) I feel no obligation to offer you any more help then that. Good luck with the ideas in your head, you'll need it.

[CrucifiedDreams]

Yay for monogomy. I think for many people it can work to be in a relationship with more than one person, all the power to you. Me personally though, though I've never tried it, I know how I am, and am fairly certain it would not work.

[Bumble]

monogomy never works because we're animals and someone gets distracted and wants to experience something different. Plus, it is possible to love multible people.

[sunshine and pearls]

guess i'll weigh in here. i do the mono things because it has worked for me and my husband for almost 10 years now. we give each other everything we need. this may be because we are both very sexual passionate people and have no energy for others. i also think that it is very o.k. for anyone in a relationship to be open to anything as long as it is agreed upon. i also know that a relationship can be remain strong and wonderful even if you have went outside the mono. box even if you decide together to change later because in the past my husband and have shared before we were married but only together never seperatly. we are also not jealous in the least bit. I think that removing jealousy from a relationship in the way that works for you is how a relationship will work.

[steelegiraffe]

i was all for polygamy, then i met my love and i knew i only needed her.
i dont think there is anything at all wrong with polygamy, but ya just not for me i guess.