Rainbow question [Archive]

poorphucker

01-25-2006, 02:30 PM

Forget bringing snickers. The gathering is not about money or what things you can bring to trade with others. Sure you can go and pick up a box of chocolate bars or a pouch of tobacco, to trade with others that are trying to fix thier sweet tooth or nicotine addiction, but you would just be taking advantage of a situation and other people's habits and addictions. I know that if we were at a gathering and at a trading circle, and saw somone pimping off bars of chocolate like they were gold, I would take notice of the person and pretty much shy away from wanting to meet or get to know them. Somehow, thier actions can show what type of individual they are before I even meet them! Forget the possibility of ever trading anything we have that they might want ;) Judgemental? NAW! Just reality.

If that is the type of energy you bring into the gathering with you... good luck on what energy leaves with you.

There are alot of good camps and great people of course! You seak you shall find. A poster mentioned a few of those camps. I want to mention my personal opinion on one of the camps.... Kiddie Village. Kiddie Village is for the kids (and parents). I know if I were at KV and a whole bunch of single male campers started to show up at KV, we would probally take our child and camp elsewhere. My child's safety is all I care of at a gathering now! It would make us extremely uncomfortable, to know that stranger adults by themseleves, were trying to camp with kiddies. This is something me and my wife have discussed in depth. Nothing to you personal.

I find the best way for you to get off on a good start at a gathering, is to find some brother or sister who is distressed over something, whether it be a kitchen that needs help, a brother or sister packing in their things, someone haulling alot of wood or water to a camp.... and offer your assistance! I really think that is when I have seen the most smiles at gatherings.... new folks meeting each other and helping one another in the proccess! I have met some very wonderful friends this way!

MMMmmmmmmmm.... DRUMS!

Az

rastapatch

01-27-2006, 05:47 AM

Forget the candy, and the tobacco for trading. If i saw you trading such things i would also probably not trade with you. At the national you are not supposed to trade food, for one. And it doesn't matter how much you bring, you will just be broke before you leave. Come with a clean spirit and the willingness to co-operate, and you will have no shortage of candy or tobacco. Just find some reputable folks and ask them can you help with main circle tonight, and you will never need to trade candy and cigs again.

The rainbow in colorado will not be much like the one in ocala, nor like the michigan regional, nor the west virginia gathering in 05. There will be live music within earshot for the entire two weeks or more.

Crystaleyez

01-28-2006, 11:14 PM

I for one like chocolate and tobacco. People seem to like me at gatherings and trade with me too. At a gathering in Mexcio I became the cigarette faery and walked around the circle after meals handing out cigarettes. After a while people started supplying me me smokes to hand out. Whats someone to do when theyre out in the middle of the forest and need a smoke? They could bum and bum draaaain people or they could trade somebody something for some tobacco.
I've been overjoyed to find people trading chocolate. I love the stuff. Its got antioxidants and flavenoids mmm and happy brain drugs that are alot less harmful than some of the other drugs being injested at gatherings. Love my family. Don't judge my family.

earthmother

01-29-2006, 12:16 AM

There will be music EVERYWHERE... Even talent shows. Some folks don't like the trade circle at all, but I think it's great fun. I see some folks dressed in black with studs and a million piercings and green spike hair trading knives and I just go somewhere else, to the next blanket perhaps, no biggie. Think I'd rather have people trading candy bars...

Keanua Otter

01-29-2006, 01:09 AM

i'm with you sister crystaleyes!!!

some of you kind folks can just avoid me when i am handing out chocolate all over the place at Ocala! I am gonna bring bags and bags and bags of kisses and such!
i just feel like saying get over it for crying out loud, some of you sound like Gathering Nazi's! No giving away or (heaven forbid!) trading chocolate? come on, give me a huge freaking break.

FLASH FORWARD!!!! yes! in retrospect, this was the wrong thing to say!!!! Just kidding!!!!! Sometimes, we mama's can get cranky when we want our chocoalte. meep!:eek:

poorphucker

01-29-2006, 02:20 AM

i'm with you sister crystaleyes!!!
some of you kind folks can just avoid me when i am handing out chocolate all over the place at Ocala!
i just feel like saying get over it for crying out loud, some of you sound like Gathering Nazi's! No chocolate? come on, give me a huge freaking break.HANDING OUT chocolate? Handing out tobacco? What are we talking about? Being a fairy that runs around giving tobacco and chocolate away? That is quite different than telling someone to bring the things specifically to trade.

What...did they grow the tobacco specially organic and cure it themselves? Are they some master chocolatier bringing thier creations to trade? NO... we are talking about greedy people that stop off at some bulk stores and purchase boxes of candy bars and cartons of cigerettes... then prop themselves on thier bounty right in the middle of trading circle! (except for the sly trader that lays out only two candy bars like they are gold... and then looks around before wispering in your ear... I got as many bars as you need... wink wink) And they first thing they usually want is a drug trade! Then when business is not good enough for them.. they wander around trying to trade 2 candy bars for grams of pot treating them like they are gold, and turn down anyone that does not have what they want. But of course... they will always throw in that sales pitch of... I will sell you 4 bars for ten bucks... I really need gas money!....... TO GET TO THE STORE AND BUY MORE SMOKES AND CANDY BARS!

All you posters that disagree with what I said about candy and smokes... are right! I should be able to pull up to any damn gathering with a full on stocked little store in a bus. Everything from cotton candy and popcorn... to hot dogs and fountain drinks. A full on line of camping and trading goods. I wlll be sure to bring extra toilet paper to trade by the ply. Might as well throw in the 20 mexican blankets I bought for 1 dollar a peice....I should at least get back 20 times what I put into them... thats what gatherings are all about afterall! Fuck... I might as well bring in an extra bus that has its own full blown liqour store to trade off.... god only knows... its no different than candy and smokes!

So you can bring your cigerette copporation supporting asses to the gathering and spread some more cancer. Bring all your candy bars in support of whatever major coporation you choose to support! Keep commercializing the gathering however you see fit.

Funny how the a poster recommended others to go out of thier way to bring these things specifically to TRADE... yet all you folks jump in and start justifying it through saying that you bring these things to GIVE AWAY, defending his posting.

Last time I checked.... giving away is not TRADING AND BARTERING!

I'll be sure to remember to bring 24 cases of coca cola and 200 bags of chips to the next national. I am sure I can make hella trades of that! And... in support of all you smokers and candy eaters.... Ill stock up on 20 cartons of smokes and 50 boxes of hershey bars..... or would you guys prefer snickers? Hmmmm maybe I should only trade for those shiny little discs of metal and those pieces of paper with green ink on them... after all... they are just objects to be traded!

I am glad this shit is not an issue at the Canadian gatherings. Seems like people are more interested in gathering... than what they can bring to trade at the gathering!

Az

Keanua Otter

01-29-2006, 02:32 AM

you need to take a bunch of huge deep breaths and try to relax. you are waaay too stressed out about absolutely nothing. I love chocolate. I am a super kind mama and peeps love me and i have a wonderful time lovin' them back.

Flashforward in time:
Absolutely Nothing??? Ok, this is where i go really wrong with poorphucker. it goes downhill fast from here. Note to self: don't disresect poorphucker ever, even kiddingly when you are being a silly....or suffer his wrath.
also, fyi
deleted my ganja joke, just too upsetting.

Keanua Otter

01-29-2006, 02:55 AM

:H ps. my 15 year old daughter says "if he is so gddamned oppossed to corporations, why doesn't he go out into the forest and chisel his posts into a message board boulder? What does he think the thing he's TYPING at was produced by? Maybe microsoft? One of the most powerful companies on the planet? (Who I might add donates meelions of dollars to the poor that they're so supposedly offended by, and 'cannot bare to look' at. Kee-riste."

Flash forward again. Yes, i realized that was a *sassy* thing for Molly to say, but it sounded funny to us at the time. Sorry for seriously offending yu, we were just kidding around. sorry! Some of your views are great and insightful! Sorry brother! Hope you can forgive us someday.

poorphucker

01-29-2006, 02:39 PM

you need to take a bunch of huge deep breaths and try to relax. you are waaay too stressed out about absolutely nothing. I love chocolate. Do people assume that another is "stressed out" because they speak an opinion?

I am a super kind mama and peeps love me and i have a wonderful time lovin' them back. sorry you are so miserable.Point? Not interested in any your "rainbow mattress" stories ;)

ps. any of you bro's and sistas that want to trade chocolate for ganja, please come find me at ocala! Lovin' you! otterI will make sure to let everyone through out the internet world know that there will be some person named otter at Ocala, that has lots of ganja and wants to trade for chocolate! What camp do I refer them too?

ps. my 15 year old daughter says "if he is so goddamned oppossed to corporations, why doesn't he go out into the forest and chisel his posts into a message board boulder? What does he think the thing he's TYPING at was produced by? Maybe microsoft? One of the most powerful companies on the planet? (Who I might add donates meelions of dollars to the poor that they're so supposedly offended by, and 'cannot bare to look' at. Kee-riste."typical of a 15 yo to speak out about someone she has never met and knows nothing about. Is not fun is it? I can say, without knowing your 15 year old... I can honestly say she has not experienced as much as I have in my life. She should grow up some more and experience life a bit... before trying to be a bitch to others.

If you insist on wanting to attack me as an individual... and not what this topic is about... a discussion on chocolate and smokes being traded at a gathering... wander over to AGRO. I have not been there in awhile. I will start a thread named Dear Otter. There we can touch on your thoughts of me and your daughters. I will also have alot of other questions that I would like answers to from your hiholy self? Like your child's fixation on animals with human sexual organs!? Good parenting? Hate to know what goes on in your home!(in reference to your siggy... since you fancy criticizing siggys)

I am done with this thread :)

I will wait for a more intelligent one to come along.

Figures you are going to be at ocala..... don't forget your pen!

See you at agro cosmic sister bear ;)
Az

Keanua Otter

01-29-2006, 03:02 PM

poster above:my goodness, you are an angry person.

flash forward a few days, poorphucker, now i have read some of your other posts, to other hipforum members, i realized that you have done this massive attack on some other posters, not as ferociously as myself however, luckily for them. I acknowledge your passionate feelings about rainbow, but in the future, it doesn't have to errupt into a verbal assault. As i said, i am sorry about the n.word joke.

Keanua Otter

01-29-2006, 04:51 PM

just know that there are bad apples in every bunch,and dont let it spoil the love that others will have for you there is still plenty of loveAside from the occasional ranting Gathering Nazi, (who, apparently, can't even come to an american gathering cause the are illegally in canada hiding out,) most peeps are cool and kind with great senses of humor and lots of love that has nothing to do with matresses!

Flash forward a few days: there i go again being a smart ass. this is gonna come back to haunt me.

Mychal

01-29-2006, 07:40 PM

I haven't been to a gathering yet, but I am hoping to go to the national this summer. I am planning to bring some things to trade. I think it's a neat idea and a fun way to meet people. I love to have yard sales here at home for the same reason.

But I have to agree with that poor phucker -it must be sad to see the bartering reduced to commercialism. But isn't that ultimately what trade is all about. It's not what we trade, but how we do it. Poorphucker pointed out valid examples of the wrong way to go about it.

I want to tell you about a christmas gift I got from my mother this year. It was a pair of scissors. Nothing special, no heirloom or anything. She was probably at the drug store and saw some good scissors on sale and picked up a couple while she was at it. She calls her gifts like that, "just something to open." It's fun to open a gift. Well, it's not like I can't afford to buy myself a pair of sissors. Others will say "it's the thought that counts." But I disagree.
It's the work.

If I needed a pair of scissors, I would have to go out, get to a store, find the scissors, etc. etc. etc. She saved me a trip to the store.

Sure people at a gathering could stop what they're doing. Walk all the way to the parking lot. Drive to the nearest town and buy a candy-bar, then haul ass back to the gathering. Why not? Or they could trade a pinch of ganja for a candy-bar that somebody has all ready made the effort to bring. They aren't trading for the candy, they're rewarding the effort and forethought. Same with smokes. If people didn't want the candy, traders wouldn't make the effort to bring it, or it would end up all melted in their back pack at the end of a hot summers day. From what I understand there isn't alot in the way of sweets at the cafes at a gathering. And I've yet to meet a vegan that didn't have a sweet tooth.

I am an excellent baker, if I do say so myself. I was planning on baking cookies and bars, making some candies and packing them in 11oz coffee cans I have been saving. I figure that after the treats are eaten, the cans will be useful for something. I may make packets of hot coca too, no preservatives! Some of these I will share at camp but I was planning on trading too. I'm fine if some ppl don't want to talk to me or trade with me, but those who do will be lucky. (belive me, you'd rather eat my stuff than a snickers any day.)

I have also thought of making some sewing kits. They would be made of cloth and hand embroidered. I would be buying needles and thread and fabric and scissors to include in the kits. And probably using antique buttons from my collection. A sewing kit is something I think many folks would forget to bring but realize they have a need for. You might say I was taking advantage of a need. Or you could say I was trading forethought.

But I can't imagine I'll want to spend my whole day sitting on a trade blanket! or even do it every day. But it would be a kick one day. I may bring some velvet and denim and offer to patch jeans while I sit there to trade. I am good at applique too.

MidnightSun

01-30-2006, 02:26 PM

my first gathering i was supposed to go with one of my ratdog tour kids and ended up hitting a show before going to the gathering. he ended up jumping out of the ride and i went to the gathering with 2 people i knew for a day!!! it was fun! i met sum great family and my friend ended up showing up for a few days after i'd been there a week or so.

i think i got more out of the experience than if i had gone in with sumone i knew!

Crystaleyez

01-30-2006, 08:04 PM

Aaaaaw poor phucker. I'm Canadian. I've never been to an American gathering or experienced A camp. Lucky I guess. I'm in the states now though. The west coast is really nice. Hugs sweetie. I hope you're not too mad. :)

SucculentFlower

01-30-2006, 09:18 PM

I just went to a Rainbow Potluck, and we had a small trade circle. My disappointment, when all there was offered where cast-off video- tapes and other commercial items, things I could find at a Good-Will.

I brought my hand-made items, things of natural fibers and crystals, beads and original jewelry. Things that you can't find anywhere but made from a Rainbow....

Those are the things that are fun to trade. And practical items are fun to trade too!

But please, donate your caste-off to the Good-Will or give them away on Free-Cycle (dot) org.

Use your imagination and CREATE to GIVE/TRADE~ya hewwww :sunglasse

rastapatch

01-30-2006, 10:40 PM

It's easy to get distracted by frustrations and inaccuracies, but i will try.

I still say; i rarely spend a moment on the trade blanket, and i have never missed out on any good thing at a gathering. In my life i get plenty of what the city has to offer. I can get candy, and cigs, and elecricity, at the store. Or at burning man. or anywhere else. I have air conditioning at my fingertips, and digital pics of beautiful things on my computer, and gas burning water heating, and razors for the girls that are over 15. And chainsaws, and pavement.
But if i want all of those things in the woods, why don't i just stay in the city?

It is hard to explain to those of you who have never experienced what i'm talking about by using words that you will just hear through your filters. But if you have never went 14 days without thinking of where you would eat, or when or if you would get a candy, or cig, or nug, then i can only say; i have tried it your way, will you try it mine?

There is, btw, plenty of candy at the kitchens at the gathering. It is brought by folks who intend to share it with everybody, regardless of whether they have tradegoods, or have worked, or are known. There is NOTHING that you need to trade for at the gathering, anything from cold beer to gold baubles to WHATEVER will be given for free by folks who realize that MORE IS COMING.

Let me tell all of you this to be clear. If you think that the gathering happens because anybody wants to trade, you have another think coming. The gathering is the product of thousand of folks GIVING. ! I feel to trade at the gathering, when you can trade anywhere and anytime in your life, is to not clearly see the gift of the people who TRADED NOTHING and gave everything freely. Without them the question of how to fill whos addiction is answered, drive to the corner and pay cash to 'the man'.

If you are not sure what i mean, i hope you will try to find out, by looking for what the gathering can give you that you can't get anywhere else.

namaste' #

Keanua Otter

01-30-2006, 11:07 PM

namaste' brother rastapatch. i just have to tell you that i agree with you on the philosphy of giving at the gathering. The trading is done in the spirit of creativity, and just the lighthearted silliness of peeps bringing their little treasures and minerals and arrowheads or knittings or whatever it is they have been collecting up over the year. It is sooo not commercialized and it is a relief i know, to get free from all of the consumer crap we contend with daily in babylon.
Your post is feels written with a loving heart and you are totally right about the fact that the lesson of abundance is what we leave with, if our hearts are open to it. It can really have a huge impact on the senses to realize that our needs are met by the generosity of others in the family, and for a few sweet weeks, it's pure magick. I would never expect to have to actually trade for anything at a gathering, my comments were meant in total jest to make a point about sharing chocolate! It's funny how they get all twisted around! In the past gatherings, kids and peeps and everybody has been so kind to me, i am never without anything, and i can't wait to get to Ocala and just be in nature again.
lovin you'
otter

Mychal

01-31-2006, 12:07 AM

rastapatch,
You present a picture of the trade circle I have yet to see before this thread. I am unsure which of my filters I used to hear what you have to say. But you're right, there is nothing I would need to trade for. I had thought of that.

I don't know how I can explain this so that you might understand. Most of the reports I have read mention the trade circle. It seemed like the thing to do. I don't collect crystals for barter. I don't make drums or hemp bracelets. I have palmistry, story telling, sewing and baking. What I do have for trade, I would gladly offer for free.

Like I mentioned, It would be dreary to sit at a trade blanket everyday. There must be those who do it because they do need to enrich their material selves. Luckily, I don't.

Thanks. I have one less thing to plan and worry about.

rastapatch

01-31-2006, 03:24 AM

You have nothing to plan or worry about.
You could walk out your door on the 28th of june in your short sleeves, and check which way was southwest by the sun, and stick out your thumb, and you would be at the gathering before sunrise on the third day. By then your life would be forever different. You would have met new folks with magic stories about giving freely. you would be fed, smoked, and rolled in chocolate.
Folks who think tradecircle is cool are not seeing how true, or truely rare and important that is. Frankly, the gathering would run just fine without it. For years there was little if any trade circle, now it sometimes looks like a flea market. I try to spend my time making the gathering better.
And by the way, there is plenty of trade to be done at the gathering in the spirit of love and giving, just not food, and not citygoods, and not at the trade circle. Just place your blanket at and corner, or in front of your camp, and trade away. Trading with strangers at the gathering is like; hmmm, well let's just say some things are better when done with friends in private.
I try to see the gathering as utopian as the visionaries that bring it to us do. Folks give their lifes work to make this utopian vision, and there are so many good parties in the world, why come to this utopian vision and not enjoy their work the way it was intended?
namaste' #

Keanua Otter

01-31-2006, 03:33 AM

rasatapatch...thanks brother, (your name reflects your calming effects and wisdom.)

Mychal

01-31-2006, 02:25 PM

there is plenty of trade to be done at the gathering in the spirit of love and giving,...

Just place your blanket at and corner, or in front of your camp, and trade away. Trading with strangers at the gathering is like; hmmm, well let's just say some things are better when done with friends in private.

I don't understand. Why do you now suggest we trade? How is that done in the spirit of giving? I should set out a blanket to trade? Please explain.

SucculentFlower

01-31-2006, 04:34 PM

To clarify ~ The National Gathering is not focused on trading. It's just one of the things that may/may not happen at any given moment. And sooo many things are going to happen!

My History ~ I've been only to 1 National (paonia, colorado) and 3 Regionals ~ all colorado. (I guess I don't travel much-hee hee)

I've yet to be at a trade circle at a National. But I have had some good trades, or have been gifted things. Just because.

But the knowledge that I do have ~ Rainbows are creative spirits, whether it's manifesting material creations, or manifesting spiritual creations, manifesting food creations, manifesting -- you fill in the blank!!

It's a giant experiment of Giving ~ and Receiving. Sometimes that hug is what a person needs, sometimes it's a crystal, sometimes is a sleeping bag.

Just be open.

I do know, a good story sometimes is just the right touch! I heard a good story at the TGC, called the Magic Bowl. Maybe some of you heard it?

Tarot readings and Palmistry are heavy pitchers for a good trade! I know I could use a good massage right now.

Let me say this~ one time at a gas station I stopped in, I happened to run into a Truckdriver hauling a load~ he saw me eyeing a Snickers bar. He said~ if I were you, I'd pass on it. I'm hauling a load of "protein" to the Snickers factory. Do you know what he said that protein was? White blood cells. He said that they separate cows' blood (by spinning it out) and use the white blood cells as an ingredient on the nougat of the snickers bar. EWWWWWWW! I believe it. Labeling laws allow this type of ingredient listing.

Never have touched a snickers since then, I don't care how long I've been in the woods. Yucky.

Mychal

01-31-2006, 05:16 PM

I don't mean to be difficult. This seems to have developed into a somewhat philosophical discussion on trading at a gathering, if not a dogmatic discussion. I know it's just one of many things that happen at a gathering. But I am interested at this point in learning more about this one thing.

I hear some folks suggesting trade, and others admonish it, and still others who's views are ambiguous.

I don't see how trade is part of a "giant experiment of Giving ~ and Receiving." Maybe I don't understand the context of the word, but I have always felt that Trade is not Giving, no matter what your spirit tells you.

Hypothetical situations:

If I were to drive to the gathering and my car stalled in the parking lot, I wouldnt' be surprised if someone would be there to help me. That person may even be a mechanic who works in a repair shop. Should I expect that that person would want some sort of trade for their services?

Now I might charge for my palmistry, I mean I have been paid money to do it at parties. But, I wouldn't think of setting up shop reading palms in order to make a great trade at the gathering.

What if that same mechanic were to repair an old beater and drive it to the gathering -would it be bad if he tried to trade it with somebody? I mean, if the only reason he brought the car to the gathering was in hopes of scoring a good trade. How is that different than somebody making and trading a hemp bracelet?

If I bring crystals to trade, I most likely didn't mine them myself. I bought them from a stone shop or dealer, or I am a dealer and bought them wholesale. How is that any different than buying a box of snickers candy bars to trade?

I don't know everybody at a gathering, but if all are my brothers and sisters, how is it different trading with any of them than trading with someone who happens to pitch a tent next to mine?

I am not trying to be a pill, I'm just confused by what people are saying here.

SucculentFlower

01-31-2006, 08:46 PM

Sorry that you are so confused... let me try to address each "hypothetical situation"--but I can only go by my experience.

One regional I drove my first car- a 1963 bug. What a friggin' beater. Towards the end of the Gathering, my breaks went out & other stuff ( I can't even remember exactly what went wrong) and a kind Brother towed me out of the NF to the highway. He didn't have any expectation for reimbursement. He did it out of the kindness of his heart.

Before the tow, he tried to fix the problem. He just saw a young Sister in distress and tried to help out.

I. personally have only one "expectation" when I head out for the National- that I'll receive a whole lotta love and that I'll give a whole lotta love.

I don't think that a person does something out of the kindness of their heart for an "expectation" of the Material.

I do think however, that if you plan to charge green energy for your palmistry, you most likely won't be making any at a trade circle. I believe that trading wares for green energy is held outside of main-gate.

I would totally appreciate a talent of palmistry and would most likely offer a trade. I for sure won't be offering any green energy for it, I can do that around here, so why wait?

It's your choice if you "set-up" on a blanket and offer out your talents, or just spontaneously practice on someone....if you choose to share at all! Just listen to your Heartsong Brother.

What if, what if... I'm not a real good Remote Viewer to predict that type of scenerio regarding a mechanic fixing up a beater to trade with someone, I wouldn't even know if it's been done. I've heard people trading cars for tents.... who knows, is it good, is it bad?

I believe if the both parties feel like it's a fair trade, who am I to judge it. Sometimes people have their own ideas about why someone would trade say- a crystal for a car.

Trading is not the primary purpose of the Gathering. The primary purpose of the Gathering is to PRAY FOR WORLD PEACE & HEALING.

I'm not put off of the idea that you didn't mine that crystal yourself. I've traded for crystals, and have been gifted crystals, and have gifted crystals. Personally, I smudge a lot of "things" that I use for my personal spiritual use. To me, that's good enough, for someone else, it may not be.

To me, there's a difference between a crystal and a box of snickers, but I guess thats my flavor.

I don't know everybody at a Gathering either, but then you have a bellybutton and I have a bellybutton, and I except you as a human being with sentience. I'm just trying to lessen the load of suffering that we are all walking around with.

The difference between a trade circle and trading with someone next to your tent...is it that hard to figure out?

WayfaringStranger

01-31-2006, 08:54 PM

ps. my 15 year old daughter says "if he is so goddamned oppossed to corporations, why doesn't he go out into the forest and chisel his posts into a message board boulder?

:D

smlchance

01-31-2006, 09:59 PM

beautiful words. sorry honeysuckleblue ;)

Sorry that you are so confused... let me try to address each "hypothetical situation"--but I can only go by my experience.

One regional I drove my first car- a 1963 bug. What a friggin' beater. Towards the end of the Gathering, my breaks went out & other stuff ( I can't even remember exactly what went wrong) and a kind Brother towed me out of the NF to the highway. He didn't have any expectation for reimbursement. He did it out of the kindness of his heart.

Before the tow, he tried to fix the problem. He just saw a young Sister in distress and tried to help out.

I. personally have only one "expectation" when I head out for the National- that I'll receive a whole lotta love and that I'll give a whole lotta love.

I don't think that a person does something out of the kindness of their heart for an "expectation" of the Material.

I do think however, that if you plan to charge green energy for your palmistry, you most likely won't be making any at a trade circle. I believe that trading wares for green energy is held outside of main-gate.

I would totally appreciate a talent of palmistry and would most likely offer a trade. I for sure won't be offering any green energy for it, I can do that around here, so why wait?

It's your choice if you "set-up" on a blanket and offer out your talents, or just spontaneously practice on someone....if you choose to share at all! Just listen to your Heartsong Brother.

What if, what if... I'm not a real good Remote Viewer to predict that type of scenerio regarding a mechanic fixing up a beater to trade with someone, I wouldn't even know if it's been done. I've heard people trading cars for tents.... who knows, is it good, is it bad?

I believe if the both parties feel like it's a fair trade, who am I to judge it. Sometimes people have their own ideas about why someone would trade say- a crystal for a car.

Trading is not the primary purpose of the Gathering. The primary purpose of the Gathering is to PRAY FOR WORLD PEACE & HEALING.

I'm not put off of the idea that you didn't mine that crystal yourself. I've traded for crystals, and have been gifted crystals, and have gifted crystals. Personally, I smudge a lot of "things" that I use for my personal spiritual use. To me, that's good enough, for someone else, it may not be.

To me, there's a difference between a crystal and a box of snickers, but I guess thats my flavor.

I don't know everybody at a Gathering either, but then you have a bellybutton and I have a bellybutton, and I except you as a human being with sentience. I'm just trying to lessen the load of suffering that we are all walking around with.

The difference between a trade circle and trading with someone next to your tent...is it that hard to figure out?

Mychal

01-31-2006, 11:07 PM

Thank you SucculentFlower, for attempting to addressing my post. My questions are in ernest. I wonder if your answers were as straight forward because I feel like I am discussing this with the Cheshire Cat. Maybe if I eat some more shrooms..... :)

Ppl have voiced very strong opinions for and against trade at the gathering. With quite a bit of ambiguity. I was hoping that I could find a clear opinion from some of these ppl.

I didn't want to fox anyone into a debate, that's why I presented the hypothetical questions. Each scenario illustrates a quandary to me. That's why they are hypothetical. Forgive me for not being more clear about that. In the context of my hypothetical questions, I was trying to reason the following:

Why isn't a skill like car repair looked at the same as palmistry at a gathering? If I can sit at a blanket an trade a palm reading, why not sit at a blanket and trade auto repair.

Why is buying crystals to bring to a gathering okay, but candy bars is not? I consider crystals City Goods.

And lastly, rastapatch seemed to be admonishing trading, then offered that it would be okay to trade in your camp. As if the folks who pitched their tent next to you were somehow more family than anyone else at the gathering. (I didn't want to say this, but I was hoping he would elaborate on that point which he clearly was trying to avoid)

Please allow me to state emphatically that I do not nor did I ever intend to charge for any services rendered at the gathering. And I never suggested that I would.

My point is
1) people do charge for services in babylon.
2) Isn't trading for those same services at a gathering the same as charging cash?
-if not please explain how you feel it is different.

Quite frankly, this whole discussion on trade has left the sense of a very sour taste of judgmental attitudes to my mind and so, I was hoping that folks would be able to clarify or consider their opinions on the matter.

Crystaleyez

02-01-2006, 12:20 AM

Don't worry about anything. Just go. You'll have fun.

Tradings cool cause its like going back to the old ways before money existed. It's something to do in between cooking and digging shitters and swimming and meditating and dancing and oming. It doesn't need to be overthought about :p.

I tye-dyed a bunch of slips for trade at the Mexcio gathering I'm going to. The girls 'll love em, hopefully the boys too. Its fun to make things and give em or trade em. If you wanna trade, trade. If you don't wanna trade, don't trade. Lotsa love for my family.

SucculentFlower

02-01-2006, 12:32 AM

Sweet Brother/Sister Mychal~

my answers are in ernest. I love you and am trying to be as clear as possible. Am I a cheshire cat? No. I'm a human being trying to communicate my experience of Rainbow as best I can. Please excuse me if I fall short.

Please help me understand the comment about the Mushrooms?

Also, it's okay for people to voice very strong opinions, you'll get a lot of strong people making the National happen. There also a lot of bliss- bows, and they are loved too.

Lighten up. The fact is, that's why it's called RAINBOW ~ there just isn't ONE way, it's a RAINBOW of love, it's a RAINBOW of people, it's a RAINBOW of movies, all coming together around the prayer pole ~ OMMMMMMMMMMM!!

Clarity is in your filter. I'm sure that skilled car repair is and can be traded. My husband, Grasshopper is a very skilled car repair person. He can pretty much work on anything. Now he's not here at the present moment, but I bet if a Master Chess Player needed a hand with his/her vehicle, he'd trade. And enjoy it! Just my imagination running wild.

The comparison of crystal to candy bars (to me) is that ~ I love my Brothers and Sisters. Some of them smoke, some of them hurt themselves in other ways- i.e. candy bars.

Really I know it's a hedonism thing (we love pleasure), sometimes lighthearted, sometimes not.

But because I respect them also, I witness the suffering and move myself and my child out of the way of the secondhand smoke.

Crystals (not man-made) are used by Rainbows for many reasons. I'm interested as to why you consider crystals a "city goods"??

Rastapatch is beautiful, he was being conscious of the imbalance of the trade circle, I really appreciate his consciousness. That's one of the reasons I stood up and stated my preferences regarding trading. But that just my flavor.

The rules (rules?) are at Maingate. I think those raps can be found at the welcomhome (dot) org site. Regarding personal responsibility and the "do's and don'ts"..

My point is ~
1- Family do not charge for services at the Gathering.~ donations to the Magic Hat are appreciated.
2-We do not consider trading the same energy as green energy. ~I believe I've stated enough examples for that point.

I apologize for your filter being clogged ~ and please exuse me for my clogged filter.

Loving Youuuuuuuuu! :D

drumminmama

02-01-2006, 01:20 AM

at the NM and Missouri gatherings there was a couple trading tie-dyed socks and "peace on earth" T-shirts for whatever came their way and trading most of that off ( She did snarf the power bar and a can of orange juice.. not a lot of Vit c in the kitchens that year) for grins, giggles and an excuse to people watch and chat with random people.
THey traded a gold ring off for a bag of starburst, which, with a few missing traded off for a skirt (torn but made a great van curtain). A boombox (?!?) traded for a rock hammer, which traded for a panning pan. Rockhounds abound.
One person wanted to trade three pot seeds for a shirt. When his offer was politely turned down he broke into a rant about "go back on tour." At that moment people were dying before the last GD shows, btw.

Trading is an amusement and a basis of tribal culture: when the prophecy evolves to the working model, people will trade skills because others will be able to do what they can't.
I can't repair a car, and someone else might like how I paint and think of a fair trade.

If chocolate is what someone values, why not have it to offer? If the chocofairy runs out, isn't it better for us to attempt some self sfficiency and have it internally without a trip to Babylon?

nutznfl

02-01-2006, 02:07 AM

I love You All.......

SucculentFlower

02-01-2006, 02:17 AM

Exactly that !!

smlchance

02-01-2006, 02:50 AM

ok ^^^ that made up my mind

i'm going to stop in FL!:)

cya there!

poorphucker

02-01-2006, 04:25 AM

Aside from the occasional ranting Gathering Nazi, (who, apparently, can't even come to an american gathering cause the are illegally in canada hiding out,) most peeps are cool and kind with great senses of humor and lots of love that has nothing to do with matresses!Does it give you satisfaction to call others Nazis? I guess that you have given everyone a little bit of insight about yourself. You speak such kind words in one post and call names in another. Hard to believe you are an adult of 50 and not an immature little one. Where I come from, that is called a hippycrit.

I call others things when I intend to hurt. I suspect that is what you have been attempting. I have been called every deragotory Rainbow name that has ever been said. Want to learn some interesting new terms?

What, so I am non status, and have a Canadian wife and son. I decided to leave th USSA. Is that an insult to you? Are you one of those flag bearing patriotic hippies happy the boys and girls are dying in Iraq? I served in the first Gulf War and have many reasons to hate your government. By the way, not that I have to explain myself to you, we are in the process of me getting my Canadian citizenship now. I am far from illegal! Awwwww... does that take away from some of your insulting and attempting to pawn me off as a criminal? Pretty pathetic jab!

American gatherings? You are absolutley correct! I never learned anything from the 4 American Nationals and 20 regionals I once gratefully attended. My last American gathering was the Prineville National. I decided then and there, that Rainbow was changing to something I did not like. I could definitely see the fork in Rainbow Road. I decided to make my next gathering the one in Tofino BC. EXCUSE THE FUCK OUT OF ME IF I LIKE IT BETTER UP HERE! It sure the hell gets me away from people like you!

Who cares if I am not in America. Besides you. Though some would say I am not "Rainbow"... others would beg to differ.I feel that I have been to enough gatherings to have formed an opinion. And, I speak my opinion. Isn't life groovy the way it works Marcia Brady!

When I speak of the trade circles. This is based on hundreds. I have seen them at thier best and thier worst.

Little story..... on the way from a Cumberland gathering going to the National in Taos, me and others were arrested in South Texas for peyote buttons. We spent ten days in jail including the 4th of July. We got out on an illegal search and seizure. After fighting to get our bus back, we hauled ass to the gathering. We had stopped in Hot Springs Ak on the way from Ky and raided a government quartz mine at 2am. We had so many crystals, crystals we liberated from being made in to circuitry chips, (hundreds of them). One the size of a 2 year old child.. which we left in the sand at the ocean on Padre Island in Texas. Our bus was sagging. We felt we were arrested for peyote becasue of karma for the peyote picking. More raping than liberating. So, we decided to take all our xtals down to the trading circus. That place was so negative, that we traded only a few..... then got really stoned (having been in jail for 10 days) and proceeded to give away hundreds of crystals the size of our fists. Some of them were as long as forearms. I am sure many people still have those crystals. Most of them were flawless. The funny thing is, we would sit there and try to give the crystals away...and people were trying to force money upon us and other things... for crystals that we were giving away damnit!

THAT was the year that trade circle really stood out to me as becoming something more than what it was intended for. I saw so many other people try to trade the cystals we gave away... immediately. I later saw "kidz" trying to sell them in Taos. Meanwhile, our bus was broken into and all our headie personal crystals were stolen! They did not leave one fucking crystal in the bus! Me and the sister I was with, left that gathering without one crystal that we had came with. I thought that was the end of it. But, I even saw one sister sell one of the crystals that was stolen.... on Venice beach for 500 dollars. Fuck...... people are pitiful sometimes. The sad thing is, these crystals were liberated from the ground by us personally. There was never one single cent of value ever placed on them..... untill others chose to put values on them. And alot of them looked at the crystals ... as what they could make off of them. I have not been to a trading circle since. I do have to admit though.... I get a kick out of seeing forest employees tradin patches, hats and shirts for tie dies and what not.

It ALWAYS bothered me to see people trading things that were considered nothing more than "monetary" transactions.

At the end of the gathering , there was only one kitchen feeding clean up. (name witheld) Me and another sister used a bus to haul out hundreds of bags of trash. When we were done and went to get a meal...we were REFUSED because "we were too clean and the kitchen was for cleanup only"... we left.

So yeah... maybe I am bias towards trading circles after that gathering.

Let me stress... trade and barter is very important!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/poorphucker/3fd4a40c.gif

I think the trading circle is a great thing.

However, as I am sure many have figured out. I am against the tobacco and chocolate being traded. I am against people telling others to go out of thier way, to bring these things specifically for trading circle. Sure, bring them...and kick them the fuck down to a kitchen or something. Then it gets shared and prevents the need of it being traded in a circle as a currency.

To put it plain in simple. These items are bought to bring to the gathering to use as a form of currency. That is not right in my eyes. It goes against what alot of people think Rainbow stands out against.

I keep reading people saying that they bring these things to GIVE OUT! What do others not understand about what I say? I have no problem with giving these things out at a gathering... sharing is wonderful. I am not against them being at the gathering..... pfffttttt

Why isn't a skill like car repair looked at the same as palmistry at a gathering? If I can sit at a blanket an trade a palm reading, why not sit at a blanket and trade auto repair.Skills are higly valued in trade and bartering. But, in all reality, a mechanic is not going to sit all day at trading circle with a sign, though I have seen some do it. I have traded for others to help work on many of my buses. You usually know who the mechanics are and what not.

Why is buying crystals to bring to a gathering okay, but candy bars is not? I consider crystals City Goods.
Since I disagree with the candy bars.... let me give my input. Buying crystals to bring to a gathering is wrong also in my eyes. Buying ANYTHING to use as a form of currency at a gathering is wrong in my eyes also. If people want the mass packaged trinkets and what not.... go buy them yourself away from the gathering. I reccomend to others not to encourage these acts by trading with individuals that do so. It also gives a bit of an insight of one of the reasons they have gone to the gathering...after all they did go out of thier way to buy the things planning on bringing them to the gathering!

I remeber the days when the circles were packed with hand made goods that alot of kind brothers and sisters have put alot of time and effort into. And of course... all the whatnots that people aquire throughout thier travels.

My point is
1) people do charge for services in babylon.
2) Isn't trading for those same services at a gathering the same as charging cash?
-if not please explain how you feel it is different.
Skills and services are something that one has knowledge and experinces with... and not a trinket that is bought. NOT EVERYONE can go out and buy that skill asap. Sure they can spend money on the service... but do not learn it itself, immediately.

Mychal, are you familiar with LETS? (Local Economic Trading System)?

It is a great example of how a service or skill can be traded or bartered... and just how much they are honored and respected in the trade and barter world !

Aaaaaw poor phucker. I'm Canadian. I've never been to an American gathering or experienced A camp. Lucky I guess. I'm in the states now though. The west coast is really nice. Hugs sweetie. I hope you're not too mad. :)Mad? Lol.... not at all. Sure, I can be a jerk, but I know that I am a good person! I have said many horrible things in my time on the net... but I am getting better at not doing so! You would be surprised at how many times I have to delete something I have written after... rereading it!

You gonna be back up for the Quebec gathering? I personally, can't wait till it is time to go!

Az

Crystaleyez

02-01-2006, 05:19 AM

Yeah, Phucker I might be there. I'm contemplating whether to start school in Victoria in the fall or winter. If its in the winter i'll be there for sure.

That was a sad story you told about the crystals....

Keanua Otter

02-01-2006, 05:21 AM

:mad: P.P.
Get out of my face. Understood? You said you were through with this thread. Now prove it.

poorphucker

02-01-2006, 06:03 AM

It gives me great satisfaction to tell you that i think you are an overbearing petty tyrant with a serious attitude problem.Glad you got some satisfaction out of your pathetic insults ;)

Glad you are able to judge an individual by words!

More power to you cosmic sister bear!

You can continue your insults if you like, but why feed into what you desire?

Sure, I could respond to any further hateful responses by you, with my own hateful inciteful remarks, but you are too easily flustered for me to even get a good laugh out of!

Thats not what this forum is here for it, now is it? You are 20 years my senior... so I am sure you agree.

The best advice I can give you,

If you don't like what I have to say...
DON"T READ MY POSTS!!!

To make it even more simple for someone that might have a hard time understanding it....

1. Go HERE (http://www.hipforums.com/forums/profile.php?do=editlist) (no...it's not a link to a picture of hell!)
2. Look to the right for the words "Ignore List"
3. Type the word "poorphucker" into one of the boxes
4. Click on the button that says "Update Ignore List"
5. Get on with your cosmic life and act as if I do not exist ;)

I enjoy this forum just as much as you do!

Sometimes, it is easier to agree to disagree!

Az

Mychal

02-01-2006, 07:15 AM

Please everybody, I hope we can set aside the insults.

SucculentFlower, Mushrooms are what Alice ate before her talk to the Cheshire Cat, who spoke in riddles. I was trying to make fun of my own befuddlement.

Phucker you mentioned the idea of what the trade circle was intended for. What was the intention?

You admonish certain items (cigarettes and candy) because they're bought to the gathering to use as a form of currency. But aren't all things traded, services and hand made goods (not to mention "whatnots that people aquire throughout thier travels.") aren't these things also a from of currency when they are traded? Especially if that's why you bring those items?

To be honest, I am not going to bring anything for trade. But saying that some items are okay to barter and others are not confuses me. I know the difference between a candy bar and a hemp bracelet that somebody made, but when those things are intended for trade, they aren't that much different.

If our purpose is to commune and pray, and trading candy is antithetical, then I don't see how trading crafts suits that purpose either.

rastapatch

02-01-2006, 01:16 PM

Hey mychal, thanks for your careful attentions to this important subject.
It is vital to realize the rainbow gathering is different than other things, just as each thing is different. It is not up to the new and unlearned to define these things but to learn them. If the new ones want new things they can make them, but the things of the elders deserve respect, not manhandling. If the new ones want to drink liquor and fuck in public, and waste money, i think they do all that at buning man. Or they can pass out their own flyers and throw their party where they want. They do not have to ruin the lifes work of those that spend their time making a rainbow gathering.

I tell you now. the gathering does not happen by accident, nor because some folks who want to bring chocolate to the woods to trade for beer happen to get there on july 1st. If you want to really see what a gathering is about, go on the 15th of june, and watch the folks who have given an entire year of their lives so you could wonder about these things. Not ocala, not this computer. Rastafari.
As for trading, and what i said about "go ahead and do it". I meant you can trade fairly to someone you meet for fun. The folks who trade candy and cigs at the trade circle do it for profit. They do it to avoid work, and to look cool when they get neat clothes.
Last year in cali i wanted cool hippie clothes. I was carrying in a box of vegetables, it was a two mile walk with a thirty pound box. I had to walk right past trade circle. I had been doing it all week. When i got to the kitchen, i stopped and said, "i was hoping to get some cool hippie clothes at this gathering. Folks who had seen me working stood up, and went to their tents, and brought me some cool hippie clothes. Just like that. I went back up the hill, past trade circle, and got another box of veggies.
The whole way up and down the hill i am known at every camp. I stop for breath, and someone brings me lemonade. Heck, i dont have to stop. Folks call me, "hey rasta, put down the box. Play us a song and we will smoke".
If you have something you would like, and things you dont need, dont go to the moneychangers temple. Just place the things you will trade on a blanket right in front of your tent, and have fun meeting folks and seeing their stuff.
I have run trade blankets without even being there. Just put out some stuff, and a sign, and come back later and see what you got!

Basically, trade is even. If it isn't even it's called commerce, and commerce is not what the gathering is about. No matter how many teenage hotties want nugs.

did that help any? namaste' #

nutznfl

02-01-2006, 01:19 PM

we have a few things that are tradeables,and if by chance im wanting a snickers,or a smoke or nugs,then it will be a good trade, but I doubt it will be at trade circle

poorphucker

02-01-2006, 02:01 PM

Mychal

Ok...I will try another route since it is not understood what an opinion is.

Bring whatever you want to a gathering. (if you are not good at reading sarcasm.... then quit now ;) )

SARCASM ON

Stand at the middle of the circle with a sign that says you are selling your body if that is what you want to do. Afterall, Prostitution is a skill and absolultely valued and needed at the gathering!

Bring a whole bunch of crack rock and heroin, and lay it out on your blanket at the circle. Afterall, it is a damn worthy thing to bring to trade an barter at a gathering. Drugs are used as currency all the time.

Do not forget to bring extra syringes, as there is a high demand for them at a gathering.

Break a leg? You can always use the CALM bicycle ambulance! Too bumby? You can always get the more valued Rainbow Ambulance Brigade and have 6 brothers carry you on a stretcher with out a bump! Of course you will be slapped with a bill in the mail for the services and will owe them 1000 community hours.

Got any firearms? BRING THEM! They have multiple uses at a gathering. You can shoot the stray dogs, protect yourself from A-Camp, and show that you are proud to bare arms. Make sure you bring extra ammunition to trade and barter at the circle! There is a full line of targets you can trade for.

I heard about the stolen car heading to the gathering, hopefully they will show up with a whole bunch of stolen goods to trade at trading cricle, as they are just items ;)

Hell, might as well trade and barter the stolen vehicle.... afterall, possesion is 9/10's of the law, they say?

On your way, do not forget the fireworks.... after all, the National takes place on the 4th of July! I am sure many people will want them in the trading circle.

Don't forget to look for all the child porn that is available and encouraged to be brought and traded at the trading circle.

That pesky rainbow sister won't leave you alone after spending the night with her? Look around at trading circle and I am sure you can find a hitman sitting around, waiting to off someone and bury them in a shitter with a layer of lime. He has every right to sell his goods too.

Want a new transmission..... look in the automotive aisle of the trading circle right next to the gas pumps! It is right down from the soda fountain on the other side of the movie theaters. It is nestled right in next to the photography booth!

Only got money... I am sure you can find a currency trader that will trade you some clam shells for your cash.... then you can trade and barter away.

I heard that this year, someone will be setting up a full blown carnival on generators. They will be trading those little paper tickets so people can enjoy the rides in the forest! They are even brining an extra uhaul to haul off thier newly aquired trades. You can even win a giant stuffed green ape!

For anyone having problems seeing in the dark at night, there will be a flash light trader. He comes every year with 420 flash lights and leaves with a huge sack of candy, smokes, and clothes! He even traded for a blow job from some nice kind sister who was sick of tripping on things, walking the trails at night!

Most of all...don't forget the cold beer and wine store right in the middle of the circle!

OH....and don't forget to look for the vendor trading rainbow gathering videos! I hear he has some good titles such as The Sisters of Rainbow, Rainbow Sisters Gone Wild, The Breasts of Rainbow, and The Rainbow Orgy series... seasons 1- 5!

SARCASM OFF

If one were to stop of at a Cosco and load up a bus, packed with candy, chips, soda, lighters, toilet paper and cartons of smokes, and show up at a gathering, and proceed to haul 100 wheel barrels of the items to the trading circle to open up shop... it would make alot of people unhappy and I could see a council being formed to address the person. Let them form!

People can bring whatever they want to trade circle. That has been made clear by others! When it comes down to it... They are right! Rainbow has no say... only the individual people that decide to go and camp at these functions, can decide what they want to bring! It is no one's business to tell them otherwise, or suggest, or even offer opinions!

People can have whatever opinions they want on what should and should not be brought!

Rainbow councils stating otherwise mean nothing! Even if they were to have one!

WHY?

What right do these people have to form a council and decide that another American is not allowed in a public national forest, that they have every right to be in? Or what they are allowed to do and not do. What if the person does not want to leave? I have seen "rainbow" beat people out of gatherings becasue a council say they need to go. NOT EVERYONE would let that happen to them ;)

On a lighter note..... I just heard that a mailwoman went "postal"?

I have oftem wondered what would happen if some disgruntled Rainbow ever went "postal" at a gathering, when confronted by a mob!

Of course, that would never happen... as the rainbow gatherings are the most peaceful places on Earth!

Are you really attempting to understand and comprehend.... or just trying to sir up the pot a little bit http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

Rastapatch has made a damn good post! Reread it!

Az

Mychal

02-01-2006, 03:30 PM

Yes poorphucker, I am attempting to understand and comprehend. But even if I weren't, do my provocative questions merit an answer? We learn more from the fox than the sheep. And besides, I may not be alone in this question.

But believe me, I don't intend to stir the pot -I just have a habit of doing that when all I want is information. Please excuse my boldness. I see a discrepancy and I want to find the meaning hidden there. Perhaps there is no discrepancy, and it's only myself who's confused. If that's the case, please show your kindness so that I can see the light. Are you really trying to explain and share your knowledge, or are you acting smug and ridiculing me? I would like to believe that you are trying to find the words that best describe your opinion and open me to understanding.

Thank you, rastapatch, for the validation of my desire to learn from the folks who's life's work make the gathering happen.

It seems to me that to keep the peace, compromises have been made that allow trade of this and that. I am okay with that. I can understand that. I'm not a bore. I'm not against trade. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, that isn't how you learn a thing. And to keep peace of mind, people will always find a justification; I wish to learn that, too.

It is fun to trade. You've left things outside your tent unattended for folks to barter using their conscience as a guide. Believe it or not I'd thought of doing exactly that with my own art work, making postcard sized works that folks could mail or keep for their own. (people have placed great value on my art) But that doesn't feel right to me now.

The question as you put it is about commerce. I don't want to get into semantics, but commerce does not dictate that the exchange of money for goods is unfair, or inherently unfair. Likewise a trade can be outrageously unfair or uneven. I contend that anything that is not a gift is commerce. Whether you call it a sale, or trade, or even, or fun or whatever. That leaves the type of commerce which is socially acceptable at a gathering up for interpretation and justification.

As you said, the rainbow gathering is different than other things -the beauty of that is that it forces us to view things like green energy and trade and gifts in a different way.

Did that help any? Well yes, I will never tire of hearing the stories like the one you tell of people giving you cool hippy clothes for the asking.

I would very much like to come early and help and participate from the beginning. But I will not be coming to a gathering wanting any material thing. No insult intended, but I could not do that. I am not now in a peace of mind where I could place myself in that vulnerable of a situation. And besides, I'm not like that. I wasn't raised that way. I could never stand to be a drain. I could not sit back and watch you work without my own contribution. It's hard for me to refuse help when it's needed and even harder to ask for it.

earthmother

02-01-2006, 04:22 PM

The disagreement about trade circle comes by every now and again in various places. This is a pretty common disagreement. It is absolutely unnecessary to get a bad attitude over it tho. Trade makes the world go around. Every culture all thru history has relied on trade to get things they want or need. Either trading goods or money. Rainbow is a bit of an enigma. It is preached to the hilt that there should be no money changing in the temple, and that's a cool concept. But what do you suppose the magic hat is? How do you suppose that all the wonderful food you eat there is obtained? The gathering is a big place, I'm sure if there is something going on that you don't like you can go elsewhere and find something you do like. Continuing a heated debate about whether or not the trade circle is a good thing is much like jumping into a giant mud hole and getting stuck there. You could have avoided the mud hole altogether, but chose to jump in. Nothing is accomplished. Personally, I find the trade circle to be fun. Many people do. That does not make us all idiots. What I do find somewhat offensive is all the people who come there looking for handouts. The ones who don't have enough honour to realize it would maybe be a better thing if they had something to offer in exchange for their constant begging for tobacco, candybars, alcohol, or whatever. Unfortunately alot of folks show up with the idea that they will be handed anything they need by someone without having to do anything in return. I know this may sound shallow to some, but I would never think of begging handouts without at least working my ass off first, or doing or giving SOMETHING in trade. It's all great to feel like Rainbow should be some totally utopian thing that is so different from real life as to be unrecognizable, but as long as Rainbow includes HUMANS, then thee is no escaping human actions. So, if you come to the Rainbow with limits on what you will like and what you won't like, then you will leave with limits, and live with limits. Just so you know, I'm NOT talking about just accepting anything no matter how bad it is. There HAVE to be some limits to what we as a "disorganization" can accept, but these things would be so huge and important as to be agreed upon by most, not something as picky as whether or not it is alright to trade. But, some folks just post on forums to throw their weight around..............

Mychal

02-01-2006, 04:39 PM

To stretch the metaphor:

I am looking at this mud puddle, well the idea of it, and I hear folks say -stay away from the mud it's dirty, and other folks say but the mud is fun, discussing the mud is wrong and tedious, just come and enjoy it. If you feel you must discuss it -then walk around it.

Forgive me for walking a path that has been beaten down, but just the same, it's new to me. And I don't see how ignoring it enlightens me.

SucculentFlower

02-01-2006, 08:40 PM

~Or you could have thanked EarthMother for her good energy. ~THANK YOU~ Earth Mother, I learned from your writings.

By the Way, THANK YOU TO EVERY ONE!~ phoorphucker, keanua otter, rastapatch, crystaleyez~ Ya'll are feeding my heartvibe, I miss ya! I'll be seenin' ya'll soon in Colorado ( well maybe not p.p., tho I totally appreciate YOu )

Hence forth, I'll shall stretch the Metaphor even FURTHER~

I love Mud, sometimes it makes me dirty, sometimes I stay away, sometimes the Mud is fun, sometimes the Mud not, sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes it is tedious.

But We like to discuss the Mud. And we may either walk through it, or around it, I've even heard of Folks levitating over it, or even Meditating through it into other Mud Puddle

My favorite is the CUDDLE PUDDLE~ we lovvvvvvve you!

P.s. this is NOT an attempt to ignore the Mud.

Just the facts Man....lol:p

Crystaleyez

02-01-2006, 09:07 PM

I like bringing toys for the kids and putting them on my blanket. The kids come up and say, "can I trade you a song for this?" It's cute. Then I sparkle up the little girls. Facepaints are fun too. I love that there are so many different colors of the rainbow. I'm purple. :)
I love your buddha baby Succulent Flower

Earthmother is wise :)

Love, peace and veggie grease,
Crystal

p.s. I know this might sound cheeeesy but it works. When you are in conflict with someone just think loving thoughts about them whenver they come into your head.

Mychal

02-01-2006, 10:45 PM

I have read earthmother's posts in the past and always found wisdom in her writing. Thank you earthmother for your wisdom, I mean no disrespect to your opinions. But I was surprised to be admonished by you for asking a question. I was taught and always have believed that no question is a stupid one.

And yet I am told that this question has been hashed over many times before. I'm sure folks more wise than myself have considered it. It's a quagmire and better for me to step around it because "Nothing is accomplished" in my asking on it.

I was hoping that I could accomplish insight into the gathering and the people who attend. I was trying to do that by asking questions.

SucculentFlower, perhaps someday I will earn enough of your respect to ask impertinent questions. Until then I will heed the advice to step around issues that may cause discomfort or issues that I was never fortunate enough to be around when they were discussed in the first place.

In this tread I pondered making sewing kit's, much like bringing toys for children, because I perceived a need. From my experience with people who live on the road, a needle is a precious commodity when you need one. I was told that was taking advantage of a need. I also pondered making cookies and candies, because people love my baked goods and I know that vegans always have a sweet tooth. I was told there was plenty of sweets at the gathering and that trading food was bad but trading ganja and tie dye is good because these things were not City Goods. I was told that I am listening through filters. That I should share with everybody but only trade with people I know or who are camping next to me. In that way trade is done in a spirit of giving. And I was told that collecting little things, like crystals, throughout the year to trade was so not commercialized. And I read the insults and tirades that this topic unwittingly induced. And anytime my discussion became ponderous or the answers ambiguous I was reminded to love everybody. But mostly I pondered the guiding principles that drive folks to say this kind of trade is fun and tribal and that kind is bad.

And like I am certain will happen again, I was told not to give any of this any thought. I will be told that the gathering is many things other than the trade circle. I will be told that the gathering brings many people together with diverse opinions. But, these new ways, where knowledge is passed on without question, are unique to me. I just can't believe that is what the gathering is all about! This thread is the first I have heard of it.

I have a belly button, so I am sure to gain admittance, but to get along are you asking me to bring blinders, ear plugs and a button for my lip?

Crystaleyez

02-01-2006, 11:22 PM

Mychal, theres always gonna be people at gatherings that are like, "I have a problem with blah blah blah" Just hug em.

rastapatch

02-02-2006, 01:47 AM

Chrystaleyez, you are right in a way. And PoorPhucker, you are very, very right in a way. Earthmother, i also agree with, and the rest of you.
We should be able to be nice about being different, but at the same time, there are things that are just wrong. I am glad that the gatherings have such a good reputation with so many folks, but i know that takes a lot of work and attention, long before the yada yada.
But don't take my word for it. If you want to know what the gathering in colorado is really all about, go there in May. Stay till August. If you want i can send you there now.

earthmother

02-02-2006, 02:07 AM

I have read earthmother's posts in the past and always found wisdom in her writing. Thank you earthmother for your wisdom, I mean no disrespect to your opinions. But I was surprised to be admonished by you for asking a question. I was taught and always have believed that no question is a stupid one.

Ah, I'm confused, I didn't realize that I was admonishing you in particular. I thought that PP was getting pretty carried away tho. No problem at all with questions....

And yet I am told that this question has been hashed over many times before. I'm sure folks more wise than myself have considered it. It's a quagmire and better for me to step around it because "Nothing is accomplished" in my asking on it.

Well, it HAS. And it IS. You are certainly allowed to ask. The part where nothing is accomplished has to do with when a group of people begin getting all worked up over the issue, which I've seen umpteen times, and the disput solves nothing, because the whole thing is a matter of opinion only, and no matter what anyones opinion is, there will still be a trade circle, so the arguement just becomes redundant after a while.

I was hoping that I could accomplish insight into the gathering and the people who attend. I was trying to do that by asking questions.

And I believe that you are. You are learning that we are all different, we all have our own ideas and views, some of us are easier to get along with than others.

In this tread I pondered making sewing kit's, much like bringing toys for children, because I perceived a need. From my experience with people who live on the road, a needle is a precious commodity when you need one. I was told that was taking advantage of a need. I also pondered making cookies and candies, because people love my baked goods and I know that vegans always have a sweet tooth. I was told there was plenty of sweets at the gathering and that trading food was bad but trading ganja and tie dye is good because these things were not City Goods. I was told that I am listening through filters. That I should share with everybody but only trade with people I know or who are camping next to me. In that way trade is done in a spirit of giving. And I was told that collecting little things, like crystals, throughout the year to trade was so not commercialized. And I read the insults and tirades that this topic unwittingly induced. And anytime my discussion became ponderous or the answers ambiguous I was reminded to love everybody. But mostly I pondered the guiding principles that drive folks to say this kind of trade is fun and tribal and that kind is bad.

There are as many different answers as there are people on the forum...

And like I am certain will happen again, I was told not to give any of this any thought. I will be told that the gathering is many things other than the trade circle. I will be told that the gathering brings many people together with diverse opinions. But, these new ways, where knowledge is passed on without question, are unique to me. I just can't believe that is what the gathering is all about! This thread is the first I have heard of it.

You have been told rightly on all counts. But this barely scratches the surface of what a gathering is "all about". It is all about the people who come, and what they do, what they believe, who they are. And the fact that ALL are accepted without prejudice.

I have a belly button, so I am sure to gain admittance, but to get along are you asking me to bring blinders, ear plugs and a button for my lip?

Heavens no, no one else does! To get along, be your kind self. You will ultimately get out of the gathering only what you as an individual are conciously or unconciously willing to percieve.

Mychal

02-02-2006, 10:45 AM

Thank you again, everyone, for your advice.

Here's what I have learned.

The issue of trade circle at the gatherings is one that some people have strong opinions about, strong enough to easily lead to insult.

I learned that if I bring items to trade some brother will inevitably be insulted and tell me I'm wrong in doing it, or that I'm going about it in the wrong way.
If I ask for an explanation on the principles that guide such an opinion, I will be patronized. I may be told to hug somebody, I may be told the gathering is about more than trading, I may be told a wonderful story about sharing, but I won't be offered a chance at analysis of one brothers beliefs.
I learned that even if the discussion at that point is civil, a second person will come into the conversation, and a third and a forth, and one will tell me that this conversation had been hashed out before by others, the other that my questions are futile, and yet another that my questions are provocative and I would do better to hug someone. And everything they tell me will be true.

But what will I have learned that I don't all ready know?
I will have learned that if I criticize a brother, then I need not explain myself other than to say that's the way it is, or that's the way I feel.
And If the person I criticize tries to extract some meaning from my admission, then several folks will appear as if to distill any ill feelings before they happen.

I learned that, on principle, it's okay to ask a question, but rather than receive an answer, I should be expected to be told that I am learning that people are different, and everybody is accepted without prejudice and therefore we do not question their motives.

However If I wish to criticize another, well, everybody does that!

Keanua Otter

02-02-2006, 02:34 PM

mychal, another thing that you could think about doing at gatherings is really focus on enjoying the drum circles at night and forget about trading and "everything it stands for" untill farther down the proverbial road... when you are sitting, dancing or drumming around the huge roaring bonfires at night, surrounded by friends, everybody is equal, everything is in-the-moment, and the moment is mystical. The Fire will transport you to a primitive place in your heart and the rythym of the drums will heal you. It's just that simple. Opinion doesn't carry much weight there. Words are gone! It's like kissing a mouse on it's tummy. Wonderful!

poorphucker

02-02-2006, 02:37 PM

People are different of course, but funny how when I am at a gathering, I find that alot of the differences are meaningless.

Mud?

I can tell you the mud is black.

Another can tell you the mud is brown.

I bet people in Arkansas will be insulted and say that it is red clay... not mud.

We would all have different discriptions of mud.

Some will say that it has more dirt than water.

Others will say that it has more water than dirt.

The of course, you will have the people that will come along and say "WTF PEOPLE! IT'S JUST MUD!"

EVERYONE IS RIGHT!

Not to mention that every mud puddle is different.

East coast mud puddles might be thicker puddles than west coast.

And so forth.

Rainbow gatherings mean many different things to many different people.

I have my own opinions that have formed. Others have thier own opinions. Even someone that has opionion's similiar to another, might have gained thier insights in an whole different way.

In all reality now, I only want to find out your opinion, later on, after you have rolled around in the mud for a bit!

I really really want to comment on your last post, but I think I will just go puff a spliff instead;)

Az

PS. Mychal.... did you know that Rainbow has a huge carpet where they sweep all the dirt from the gathering under it, to hide it? The thing has quite a bulge underneath it. It even seeps out from under the carpet at the edges, every once and awhile! Most people like to just sweep the dirt back under the carpet when that happens. Of course once in awile it rains. Some of that dirt becomes mud for a bit. Hard to sweep mud back under the carpet. Eventually the mud will dry and back under the carpet it will go.... untill the next time it rains. Some people have never seen this carpet. Others choose not to see it. Some get a bit dirty from walking around it so much and well others.... they sleep on that carpet!

If I ever had to vote for an unofficial rainbow motto that I have heard the most, I would vote for "We will deal with it later!"

It seems that has been the motto for 20 some odd years and that later has now come knocking on rainbow's door... on many different things. It sure has been raining for the past few years ;) Maybe the rain will wash away all the signatures on those pieces of paper that people like, instead of people just covering them with mud!

WONDER WHAT THE WORLD WOULD BE LIKE WITHOUT OPINIONS?

SucculentFlower

02-02-2006, 05:08 PM

That was beautiful Phucker! Thank YOu!

But I have to say this~

Dirt--you find that under your fingernails

Earth is what mixes with the water..and is the creation of all things!

I love the Earth.

Just the facts dude!

Hey smoke one for me! Lucky Phucker! :P

Mychal

02-02-2006, 08:34 PM

Mud and dirt and earth, I guess we are wallowing in it.
EVERYONE IS RIGHT!
http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/mudhippo.jpg
I love you all!

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-OKAY?-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

Many folks in this thread have offered a simple opinion, like "I like trade, it's fun." or "it's okay, it's tribal." Those are rather black & white opinions; I haven't questioned it.

Others have said, "this kind of trade is okay, that kind is not." That's a grey area. Yes you may live in that grey area and hold what ever opinions you wish and pass judgments. I respect that. Folks like earthmama and rastapatch and poorphucker strike me as enlightened people who are wise and have considered their own opinions before they have arrived there. That is where the nugget of their wisdom lies.

I have yet to argue that anyone who has posted in this thread should change their opinion on the matter. Please give me the benefit of the doubt, I had no intention of swaying an opinion. I know full well the variety of the rainbow. I respect the diverse opinions. Taking the time to examine and learn those opinions should not be considered an affront or argumentative. Because others have been argumentative in the past, I understand why you would make assumptions about me. But please, allow me to debate this issue into the ground if I need to. It's my turn. And if I do become argumentative, or crazy or insulting, do let me know. But don't be sermonic, let me know after I have sinned not before.

Dispensing platitudes and bromides is not sharing wisdom, well not in a way so that another can learn from it. It's condescending. Explaining how you arrived at your decisions -that is sharing your nugget of knowledge. And that's what I have been asking for. So please, don't be greedy with your wisdom.

Let me paraphrase my questions asking for the wisdom I've been after about the grey areas:

1) You admonish certain items (cigarettes and candy) because they're brought to the gathering to use as a form of currency. But aren't all the things, services and hand made goods (not to mention "whatnots that people acquire throughout their travels"), don't these things become a form of currency when they are traded? Especially if that's why you bring those items? (how do you differentiate from healthy trade items and poor? is it objective or subjective?)

2) Why is it different trading with someone who happens to be in your camp but it is tawdry to trade with any other bother or sister at trade circle?

3) You mentioned the idea of what the trade circle was intended for. What was the intention? (Or what do you believe it was or should have been?)

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

Other points I wish to make on the thread so far.

1) The one opinion I did state is that it's "all commerce, whether you call it a sale, or trade, or even, or fun or whatever. That leaves the type of commerce which is socially acceptable at a gathering up for interpretation and justification." I don't expect anyone else to agree with me or convert.

2) I didn't think this was a heated debate. I thought the heat had been given a chance to cool down. And we were almost at the brink of constructive criticism.

8) And yes my little butterfly, Keanua Otter, you are learning what true wisdom and knowledge is. I believe that one day when you are sitting, dancing or drumming around the huge roaring bonfires at night, the fire will transport you to a primitive place in your heart and the rythym of the drums will heal you and you will then learn how to share that wisdom and knowledge. :)

9) poorphucker, you are hilarious. I'll remember to bring my broom to the gathering, I'm sure to stumble across the carpet you talk about.

10) I know that everybody is different, it's something I have been acutely aware of since a very young age. It's condescending to suggest I'm just now learning that. And I know that the Rainbow Gathering is varied, diverse and wondrous, and that Trade Circle is a tiny, insignificant part of it. But for gosh sakes, quit reminding me and allow me this one chance to investigate this one thing before I decide to move on to other things, like going into my backyard to practice drumming around a campfire. (And you don't have to remind me that the gathering is about more than drumming around a campfire; and please forgive me if I come back here and ask what is the best type of drum and that sets off a whole other debate that has been hashed out before. You know, if you want to open the gathering up to new people, you're going to have to learn to tolerate a little repetition of things that aren't covered in the raps) :rolleyes:

Keanua Otter

02-02-2006, 11:26 PM

Mychal, Forgive me if my comment about *enjoying the drum circles whenever you get to a gathering* sounded incredibly trite or simpleminded. i wrote the drumming comment out of kindness, and because i am trying to think positive happy thoughts about the gathering that i am getting ready to leave for in a few days.For me, i am much more into drumming than trading and the comment just slipped out! But drum circles are about the closests thing to heaven and i wish you could experience it..
I must share with you I feel really bad about some of the things that have been said about me in this thread. I am sorry i think i coined the phrase "gathering nazi", But it seemed to fit. Sorry that I wasn't paying enough attention to the spirit of poorphuckers original rant and then before i knew it he was crucifying me and i just got scared and hurt and felt totally cyberviolated. It's been too painful to really discuss! and sorry that others have thought i was referring to them, when i made the Canada remark. It was a psychic vibe that i guesss touched a serious nerve. Ouch!
But, truth be told, I am a simple woman. An OLD woman!!! but i do have some redeeming qualities...f you go check out my gallery and really look at me and my pics of my family and friends 'n things, you could see that i am not all that bad!
I would love to write a post defending my own honor, but i am too old and tired. Perhaps the upcoming drum circles will revive me. Untill, many blessings and much love, otter

Terzabine

02-02-2006, 11:37 PM

Just wanted to come in and just let everyone know a little something about Keanua Otter. She is a powerful, amazing, beautiful, incredibly intelligent and spiritually enlightened individual, as well as being an awesome, loving, wise and caring mother (to me, actually. And that's MY naked jackalope art in her sig, just FYI!!). I can't believe no-one is calling poorphucker on his completely outrageous, uncalled-for behavior. She made a few lighthearted comments voicing her opinion on people who make such a big deal out of these things, and WHAM!!! Four paragraphs slamming her, her opinions, and making derogatory comments about her parenting skills. GAWD. What an angry person you are! And if you have an issue with my art, you can take it up with me, thanks.

I hope all of you people have a wonderful, thrilling, enlightening time at the Gathering, and I wish I was going. Sorry to go so off-topic, but this whole thing has really stressed her out and I had to come in and speak up in her defense!!

Mychal

02-03-2006, 12:04 AM

I never thought you were a bad or mean person.

I can say I too am tired, maybe not as tired as you, but at least as old. And I can say I felt slighted after being called "little grasshopper". Then after several comments from different posters which seemed to suggest that (because I was new at hip forums or new at rainbow?), that I was somehow spiritually underdeveloped, I began to wonder if I needed a post defending my own honor. I have been working on my spiritual connection to the world, I just haven't been doing it with the Rainbow Family, but I believe that is what brought me here, closer to home, so I can share the message of my journey with you.

This forum is a good place to do that; and what's nice about this medium is that we can retract our statements and move on. You are a kind heart for doing that. Thank you.

p.s. I have seen your album, you have a wonderful portfolio and family, and every right to be proud.

p.p.s. I was composing the above as you were writing your post, Terzabine. so this p.p.s. is an edit add on. You are right that the comments about your art, Canada etc. was totally uncalled for, but it looked like your mum was holding her own.

She is lucky to have a talented and dedicated daughter like you. I hope things look better for all of us tomorrow. And thank you, maybe this thread will be able to resume.

Keanua Otter

02-03-2006, 12:10 AM

thanks mychal, kelly sweetheart. Big hugs to both of you.
ps. mychal, *welcome home*.

Rocky_Green

02-03-2006, 02:21 AM

I'm gonna bring Snickers bars to Ocala and then give them to 'Shut Up and Eat It'. They will turn them into deep-fried zu-zu's and serve them to everybody who stops by. Deep fried snickers bars in the woods, Fuck Yeah!
Also, one way to discourage both the use of tobacco as currency and the tendancy of people to 'bum smokes' is to bring tobacco and give it to 'Nick at Nite'. They will distribute tobacco, without charge, to anyone at anytime.

Keanua Otter

02-03-2006, 02:36 AM

lol

Keanua Otter

02-03-2006, 03:28 AM

Zuuuzuuuu's!
lovin you all!

Keanua Otter

02-03-2006, 03:30 AM

Mychal, i don't want to take up a bunch of space here getting so far off topic with this, but i do thank you for your kind, insightful thoughts.
Before we leave for Ocala, i want to close my strange participation with this most interesting thread, dust my rainbow otter self off a bit and share some ideas regarding "observing the the tenents" (whatever they may be, and i say that with all due respect)) of the *rainbow consciousness*....when i get back from the gathering, hopefully this thread will still be goin' strong.
But i do want you all to know that in spite of my previous brash or indifferent reactions to some anti-chocolate and cigs rants (!) etc. ironically, i certainly and most assuredly share every caring rainbow brother & sisters concerns about keeping the gathering pure, etc, babylon out, etc. trading in the right spirit, protecting Nature and each other... serious issues have been brought forth: this Cause, and worldlifestyle movement of healing called the Rainbow Family. What is it really, socially and environmentally...and how can we all protect it and make it better. My mind is open to learning all that i can about The Rainbow Family Of Living Light, my loving adopted tribe. I say this with utmost repect and sincerity. I will try to be much more mindful of how i come across sometimes in this forum. As an youthful, yet aging otter, i can be cranky and sassy.

In the meantime, i have decided not to bring any chocolate (to share, sigh,)to this gathering in consideration of some of the opinions from this thread!!! Hopefully, this will come as a relief to some.( i do however reserve my right to change my mind about this!) (oh, ok, i will still have my private stash if ya really need some! ) I will be bringing my animal medicine cards for y'all (pure magick) and all manner of pyschic readings, and lots of hugs!
Thank you all for having patience with my flaws, age, wierdness, playfulness, and insecurities. Sorry for everything...
Lovin' you, everybelly & See ya in Ocala
ps. *nic at nite* rocks! (sorry!)

rastapatch

02-03-2006, 04:23 AM

mychal, i think i have felt the same way as you before.

People who say we shouldn't try to talk things out because they can't be finished. Then they say, 'just talk about love', or 'trust good', as if somehow we will all agree just what love, or good is about.
I myself have changed my mind before, and like talking to smart folks about contentious things. It helps me learn, and change my mind. And i also don't need the answer 'everybody is different'. That answer doesn't answer anything.
I mean, there are things that are right/wrong, aren't there? It is wrong to steal? and to shit in the middle of the trail? It is right to help with the work? and listen before anger?

When i said commerce perhaps i should have used a better word. Or perhaps you could have heard me better. What i meant was:

If you have a closed system, and someone is working and someone else isn't that's not really fair. Folks whobring chocolate, but then want fed.....? I am not claiming a chocolate is a big problem, so i also don't need anybody calling me a candy hater. I am speaking of PROFITING at the gathering.
You will know who i am talking about. Not the blissers that don't know what tragedy is, they are for the massage blanket, and i wouldn't have it any other way. I am talking about those who bring JUNK, and trade 'up' at the gathering. They trade the majority of their time, and leave with a years worth of profit.
I have known folks who plan to not work for months, because they traded smokes for handmade pipes, and jewelry and such.

Now this is where usually someone tells us (as if we didn't know) that folks can do what they want, but that's not true. There are many things that folks can't do.
Isn't it ironic that if person 'x' likes the law against carthieves he will give thanks for cops, but if he doesn't like marijuana laws he will talk down on the same set of laws. When you ask of this he will say the law is unjust, but will later say 'you can't tell folks what to do'.
Of course we can tell folks what to do, it's called parenting, and/or peerpressure. In rainbow they call it consensus, or counsel. Those that don't like a consensus should give the benefit of a doubt, and either call a circle or go along with consensus.

And of course there is my standard rant. . . . Folks shouldn't show up on the 1st of july and have a big opinion of themselves. If you didn't make the rainbow gathering happen, perhaps you ought to listen to those without who it wouldn't have happened.
I would write more, but my post is too long already.
namaste' #

ps: dude, if you get to colorado, ask around for me. I wont be hard to find. I will be right in the middle.

hippiestead

02-03-2006, 04:31 PM

the only thing that bugs us about trade circle is the folks who try to 'profit' from their trade goods....and it's not just chocolate & tobacco that make up that part of the trade scene. Trade 'profiteering' is a state of the trader's mind, not an item specific thing. on the rare occations that we sit in trade circle, we like to do either a 'take something/leave something' blanket where you can trade almost anything for what's on the blanket or a fun 'themed trade' like when we traded lighters for anything that would light (tobacco, candles, inscents, whatever...). Of course we're the type of folks that if we have something you really need (like flashlight batteries) we're likely to give it to you...no trade needed.

warpedsoaper

02-03-2006, 06:31 PM

Wow. After reading all these post I will go camp else where with people who are truley kind. Have a great time in Ocala.

PatchWorkKid

02-03-2006, 09:46 PM

Hey phucker! I don't know yuo, but I think your an asshole for treating my sista Keanua like that!:mad:

END OF SUBJECT! NO FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS! ThankYou! Peace&Love,
Patches
I wish I could go, buut I can't. Have fun! Peace! Any of u go'n to the gattering in ithaca?
Glad you got some satisfaction out of your pathetic insults ;)

Glad you are able to judge an individual by words!

More power to you cosmic sister bear!

You can continue your insults if you like, but why feed into what you desire?

Sure, I could respond to any further hateful responses by you, with my own hateful inciteful remarks, but you are too easily flustered for me to even get a good laugh out of!

Thats not what this forum is here for it, now is it? You are 20 years my senior... so I am sure you agree.

The best advice I can give you,

If you don't like what I have to say...
DON"T READ MY POSTS!!!

To make it even more simple for someone that might have a hard time understanding it....

1. Go HERE (http://www.hipforums.com/forums/profile.php?do=editlist) (no...it's not a link to a picture of hell!)
2. Look to the right for the words "Ignore List"
3. Type the word "poorphucker" into one of the boxes
4. Click on the button that says "Update Ignore List"
5. Get on with your cosmic life and act as if I do not exist ;)

I enjoy this forum just as much as you do!

Sometimes, it is easier to agree to disagree!

Az

Mychal

02-03-2006, 10:52 PM

rastapatch, Thank you for the clarifications. I didn't think that you or anyone else were candy haters, that's another one of the reasons I wanted to continue the dialogue. Profiteering seems to be the common issue here. You mentioned that something could or should be done. I agree, but first I want to reflect back. (aside: I will look for you in Colorado, rastapatch -not sure how I'm getting there yet. But I've never had a problem finding the people I want to see.)

The comment that tipped off this direction in the thread, and drew me to hash it out, was made by poorphucker. He said that we should not be suggesting to people that they bring snickers bars to trade at the circle, as if that were a currency which you could greatly profit from. I agree with him there, "bring a box of Snickers," is poor and disruptive advice.

In the last few months, I've been reading alot about Rainbow. Hundreds of documents gleaned from Google. Rainbow sites, Newspaper accounts, Forestry reports, Blogs, Journals and Forums like this. A couple of ideas get repeated ad nauseam and without concern for originality. For instance, to describe diversity you must run off a list of camps, "Jesus Camp, Hare Krishna Camp, Kiddy Village and Faerie Camp." I can't tell you how many times I've read that exact list as if it were the avatar of rainbow diversity. Of course, there's more to rainbow than that. But apparently we can't all be creative writers.

Some foot notes get repeated so often that they seem like small truths in themselves. I have to admit that I fell prey to the "Bring Snickers to Trade" advice myself. I can't tell you how many times I've read that as advice or as a description of the trade circle. NO WONDER, it peeves yourself and others to no end. But you gotta understand, this is the first I heard of descent on that advice. I thank you and poorphucker for pointing that out.

No food shall be traded.
I must say that as a baker I find that to be a very arbitrary attitude. I understand the need for us to break bread together. I understand the need for main circle to be a central and organized place to confer. But I'm not talking about building a separate fire pit and private kitchen on the grounds and charging admission.

Granted, I could bring the raw materials for the cookies to the Main Supply. Or I could try to bake them at the gathering, or make the candy over a gas burner, but it would never be the same as if I made them at home. Baking is one of my crafts.

To me it's the same as any craft person. The confusion is in the materials. You know, I could bring twine and beads for Kiddy Village, but if I make a bracelet for trade, do you expect me to donate it to kiddy village? Besides, the kids would never make the same bracelet that I could. And you don't expect the crafts folks to make their jewelry at the gathering. Generally, the reason you value the bracelet I make is not only the materials and effort but my skill and artistry.

Now, if trading baked goods were the only thing that I did at rainbow, but I still ate the meals and took a crap, yes that would be a drain. But I wonder if there aren't craft people and rock dealers who sneak under the critical radar but who's only contribution is to sit at a blanket all day. The issue seems to be: it isn't what you trade, it's how and why you do it.

But like I said, I won't be trading my baked goods. People are predisposed to misunderstand, or think I am conflicting with the kitchens.

What to do?
You suggest that something could and should be done. Something proactive. Shaming people doesn't always help. I'm suggesting a rap. I don't know the procedure on how that's usually done; I thought we could start it here. At least discuss it here. There's a new thread: "Toward a Better Trade Circle:" (http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145873) where I talk about my thoughts on the subject and offer a structure for the rap. I'm hoping it will be an outlet for all of you who have shown interest, and disinterest, in this topic and you will be able to contribute.

Great Idea, Rocky_Green: I like the idea of bringing smokes to Nick at Night to devalue the scalpers hoard and discourage the use of tobacco as currency. I quit cigarettes some years ago, but I plan on bringing something to Nick at Night now.

poorphucker

02-03-2006, 11:31 PM

Hey phucker! I don't know yuo, but I think your an asshole for treating my sista Keanua like that!:mad:

END OF SUBJECT! NO FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS! Yet another "patches"..... whats that make ....Patches #491?

Nice meeting you!

Glad you are able to inform an opinion all by yourself!

Do you know the old phrase....

"takes one to know one!"

That about sums you up :)

If you would like to have no further conversation, after attempting a pathetic insult, why fucking bother posting it in the first place?

I won't play your game ;)

But, I will ask how making deragoatory comments against another person, fits in to your "Peace,Love&Harmony!"

Your insulting is no different than mine.

If you want to stoop to my level as you just have, at least you did it on your own... no one made you the asshole but yourself ;)

Az

PS: get over it... I am... hopefully she is!

Keanua Otter

02-03-2006, 11:55 PM

hey! well if that doesn't kill this thread, nothing will!:(

mingodrake

02-05-2006, 11:55 PM

Gosh I hate it when I'm away from the computer for a few weeks and miss a good conversation. Last year at Ocala our camp brought 873 assorted candy bars( mostly energy bars. We traded about 30 the first day for whatever anyone wanted to trade( scraps of cloth, some wire wrapped stones, a joke, a hit from a nice phatty, ect.) We gave the rest away starting at nightfall. We also had a free candy cane tree set up in the woods. Due to unexpected issues we left the gathering a faster then planned but not before both tradeing AND giving away a LOT of zuzus and capachino.I guess all I am trying to get across is that I myself feel its the spirit of the trade not the object being traded.

PatchWorkKid

02-06-2006, 08:35 PM

Dude. I shouldn't called u an asshole, but damn didn't anyone ever tell u how nasty u are? Jeez! can't we all just get along. keanua otter ur idea sounded pretty cool. I think u should follow through. Maybe even donate some of what you get to a good cause.;) Let us drop this here and now Phucker.

Yet another "patches"..... whats that make ....Patches #491?

Nice meeting you!

Glad you are able to inform an opinion all by yourself!

Do you know the old phrase....

"takes one to know one!"

That about sums you up :)

If you would like to have no further conversation, after attempting a pathetic insult, why fucking bother posting it in the first place?

I won't play your game ;)

But, I will ask how making deragoatory comments against another person, fits in to your "Peace,Love&Harmony!"

Your insulting is no different than mine.

If you want to stoop to my level as you just have, at least you did it on your own... no one made you the asshole but yourself ;)

Az

PS: get over it... I am... hopefully she is!

rastapatch

02-10-2006, 09:34 PM

Great ideas mychal.
Forgive me if i don't know which parts to repeat, but look, it got us this far :^D

I will join you on the new thread. I always feel the need to repeat this though. More folks should be asking what the rainbow family is, instead of telling. And yes that means us. #

angelle

02-11-2006, 02:40 PM

yarrr.. poor mixed up rainbows.. it seems the colors have gotten swirled around into that browny accident like when you're painting for some of you.. and there's paint scattering about madly trying to dominate the canvas..

i think trading a delicious baked good is fine.. if no one feels the same way, they wont trade, and then you'll be like "ahh.. i'll just share them!" sharing is beautiful.. but no one's going to twist any arms to trade an item. perhaps once you get there, you'd fall in love with the gathering & turn into the muffin faerie. maybe before judging someone by the item they've got, you should talk to them.. once you get a feel for their energy, you can tell if their intentions are "pure" or if they're simply a scammer, if you'd like to call them that. baking is an art.. i love baking.. and would gladly trade a painting for a sweet treat, if i felt so inclined. and about the crystals, it seems as though it would be a rather common thing to trade as im sure we've all got quite the collection, but i know my crystals have all gotten attuned with my energy & have been in my presence for the past several years.. just seems like such a personal item to hand off.. "trade you my amythest for your quartz" to each their own, but my crystals were all chosen & loved. there could be negative energy intwined with the stone of another no matter how peaceful they come off as. i give away trinkets to those who have shed a beautiful light into my world and would be more inclined to give away my crystal than trade off. i'd like to trade handmade crowns.. my friend tink makes the most wonderful ones with ribbon & seashells.. little glass beads.. they're fun to wear, no matter how old you are. i think some of the wee ones would be enthralled to wear one for the festivities.. as would some of us maturing folks.

anyway.. i've been a lurker here for a while, but wanted to put in a little positive note. "im not going to stoop to your level" says one, but yes.. it appears as though you are doing just that. be kind & honest with your words, and dont attack one another... different opinions are surely allowed, but there's no need for the animocity that's flying about. if you can't get along, pm each other i guess..

rastapatch

02-12-2006, 02:43 PM

angelle. What a funny post.

You start out insulting everyone equally (poor mixed up rainbows) when you could have addressed just the points. Then you say you are so above that.

Then you end with another blanket insult, and more negativity, before telling everybody what to do (if you can't get along PM eachother).

I am sure you are a lovely person and that it was just a simple oversite.

As for crystals. I have seen enough crystals to flatten a mountain. If the mountain we gather on had crystals it would be flattened before the gathering was over. That's just one dudes opinion. Myself i think crystals are like fingernails or testicals; they are most useful in their original location, and a comaratively useless novelty on your shelf.

As for your opinion on trade. I will tell you the same thing as i have said on this thread before. Have you ever spent a couple of years trying to find out what all those old people were sayin? Have you ever been involved with the gathering from one gathering 365 days to the next gathering? I know 'your opinions have worth', but how much time have you spent on the land year after year making a gathering happen with the folks who MAKE IT HAPPEN?

There is no lack of consensus in seed camp or cleanup. It is just the 'rest' of the gathering that thinks they 'can do what they want'.

Trade no food. Trading a single piece of food blurs the line of trading two pieces blurs the line of trading four pieces, blur 8, blur16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384. Fourteen steps from no trading food, to all food traded. Yes i know it's just an example, but it's really just like that.
There used to be zero tolerance at the gathering for trading food, remember that? One child with a lot of ego traded one candybar, and the next child said "i just saw him do it, so i can do it" Now they trade candybars, and soup cans, and dried beans. Hmmm.

I am sure you are a lovely person. I hope to see you at the gathering and i guess your friends and my friends will get along on almost everything. I am not hard to find. Just ask any old hippies (inside the gathering, not at the trade circle) for rastapatch. You won't have to ask very many times.

PatchWorkKid

02-13-2006, 09:43 PM

I like the way chose your words angelle. yarrr.. poor mixed up rainbows.. it seems the colors have gotten swirled around into that browny accident like when you're painting for some of you.. and there's paint scattering about madly trying to dominate the canvas..

i think trading a delicious baked good is fine.. if no one feels the same way, they wont trade, and then you'll be like "ahh.. i'll just share them!" sharing is beautiful.. but no one's going to twist any arms to trade an item. perhaps once you get there, you'd fall in love with the gathering & turn into the muffin faerie. maybe before judging someone by the item they've got, you should talk to them.. once you get a feel for their energy, you can tell if their intentions are "pure" or if they're simply a scammer, if you'd like to call them that. baking is an art.. i love baking.. and would gladly trade a painting for a sweet treat, if i felt so inclined. and about the crystals, it seems as though it would be a rather common thing to trade as im sure we've all got quite the collection, but i know my crystals have all gotten attuned with my energy & have been in my presence for the past several years.. just seems like such a personal item to hand off.. "trade you my amythest for your quartz" to each their own, but my crystals were all chosen & loved. there could be negative energy intwined with the stone of another no matter how peaceful they come off as. i give away trinkets to those who have shed a beautiful light into my world and would be more inclined to give away my crystal than trade off. i'd like to trade handmade crowns.. my friend tink makes the most wonderful ones with ribbon & seashells.. little glass beads.. they're fun to wear, no matter how old you are. i think some of the wee ones would be enthralled to wear one for the festivities.. as would some of us maturing folks.

anyway.. i've been a lurker here for a while, but wanted to put in a little positive note. "im not going to stoop to your level" says one, but yes.. it appears as though you are doing just that. be kind & honest with your words, and dont attack one another... different opinions are surely allowed, but there's no need for the animocity that's flying about. if you can't get along, pm each other i guess..