Why Blame the Satan on things YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN? [Archive]

peace_sells

06-28-2004, 07:21 PM

Forgive me for generalising all Christians to think this but whenever I suggest something that can happen/has happened that is possibly supernatural all Christians (that I have talked to) can say is "it's Satan" or "it's Demons".

If it is good then they will say it is God of course... but if it isn't (it may still be good) but the bible does not mention it to be possible or it says it isn't right then it is suddenly evil. Q. Why is it evil, by demons or Satanly? IMHO It isn't. It's just a way of being scared into being "good"… only society’s moral view of it, just like the bible… it was really created by men to rule other men.
I mean yeah, there are some things in the bible which make sense, like honour your mother and father, do not kill etc that I think are good to do but why need a bible to tell you that. If you have been brought up properly, it's just common sense. You do not need a bible to tell you this. Not that that will be accepted here.
If we aren’t doing what God says/if we do not repent (reminds me of the communists telling people to conform etc…) then we get to burn in the fiery pits of hell… woo, I’m loving all that “free will” there!!

p.s. I may be going away for a few days but I will be back soon - hope to hear some converting arguments ;)

cerridwen

07-07-2004, 06:58 PM

peacefuldevotee

07-08-2004, 01:10 AM

campbell34

01-14-2005, 03:06 AM

I'm surprised that no one answered yet... But I very much agree with you!

I believe that folks who quickly jump to blaming something on 'Satan's work' are using that as a cop out excuse to learning what it really is.

Ideal example: I was raised Catholic, my whole family is very catholic. Growing up I always questioned my spirituality and my place in the church etc... Anyway, long story short I became Wiccan, and I've been practicing that since I was about 18 or so...

My father is convinced that what wicca is is a cult, or a satan-worshiping phase, it's very bizarre. But a large part of it comes from his deeprooted faith in the Catholic church, and it's very difficult to shake that stereotype from him.

Point being I know exactly what you mean. It's very easy to blame it all on Satan when something goes wrong, it's really too easy of a solution for everything.
The fact is demons do exist and they look for those who are will to take their bait hook line and sinker. There are good spirits and there are bad ones. They come from the devil or God. God does not play religion games. He does not appear as Allah one day and then some other God the next day. That is why the bible states we should test the spirits to see if they are from the true God. The bible states that every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ is Lord is a true spirit. The Devil loves religion, it is the best way to pull men from God. Once mens eyes are turned on strange Gods, they often will never find the true God, that has been there all the time. I have had encounters with demons, and there is an evil that defies description. Their hate for Christ is so great, and if you ever had an encounter with them you will find this out. Demons imbrace all world religions, but they hate Christianity. As far as blaming Satan I would need an example. When a demon spoke to me on one occasion and told me he was going to kill me, I did blame that on Satan.

campbell34

01-14-2005, 03:17 AM

Although Bible speaks about Satan many times, I personally do not think that there is a power that can oppose God successfully. I mean, God or Goddess, by definition, is all-powerful and all-knowing, and there is every reason for Him to get rid of anything that opposes His/Her Will.
In fact, everything that happens happens by that Will.

On the other hand, human mind cannot live without idea of good and evil. So, certain events are labeled as good and others as bad. This leads to the idea of Satan being responsible for bad stuff. It is called duality. At certain moment in meditation, though, our mind can surpass the duality and see everything as perfect. At that time we see everything "from a distance", and it indeed looks perfectly harmonious so that even the thought of evil never occurs. That's the true seeing.
Often evil does win out because the people themselves give into the evil. Rather then serve God they serve the Devil. God gave His creation free will.
And the reason there is so much murder in this world is because men would rather choose the evil. God is calling those who love Him out of this world. I don't see the murder of 6 million Jews or other terrible past or present events as perfectly harmonious. I have had encounters with demons and I can tell you there is real evil in this world. Also these demons have a special hate for Jesus Christ.

thumontico

01-14-2005, 03:44 AM

The fact is demons do exist.The FACT? Certainly there must be some empirical proof for you to make this assertion. Personal experiences will not convince me because there are several more plausible things that can go on in your head to make you believe you see some sort of demon than you actually seeing one. Especially when you have years of "The Fear of God" primed into your mind.

arlia

01-14-2005, 02:10 PM

answer this question then......how come non christians always blame something bad that happens on god!

thumontico

01-14-2005, 02:18 PM

I don't know that they do. I certainly don't.

puddin

01-14-2005, 02:23 PM

answer this question then......how come non christians always blame something bad that happens on god!
Thats a pretty big generalisation there. I personally dont know any non-christians who blame bad stuff on god.

arlia

01-14-2005, 02:48 PM

e.g.......natural disasters and famine in the 3rd world
'if there is a god why does it all happen'

puddin

01-14-2005, 02:50 PM

e.g.......natural disasters and famine in the 3rd world
'if there is a god why does it all happen'
How the fuck is that blaming god?

arlia

01-14-2005, 03:09 PM

people do!
oh god must have done it.......i hear it a million times at college because of the tsunami disaster

thumontico

01-14-2005, 09:59 PM

You are refering to God's inaction.

Soulless||Chaos

01-14-2005, 10:05 PM

answer this question then......how come non christians always blame something bad that happens on god!
They don't... :rolleyes: Many don't even believe in god... :rolleyes:

Alsharad

01-15-2005, 02:32 PM

The FACT? Certainly there must be some empirical proof for you to make this assertion. First, you are asking for sensory evidence of a being that is wholly non-corporeal. That is self contradictory. Also, there are many things that are facts that lack empirical proof. Abstract concepts (love, truth, beauty, logic) have no empirical proof. That is WHY they are abstract.

ab·stract http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dabstract) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifb-strhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifkthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif, http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifstrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifkthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gif)
adj.

Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
Thoughts have no empirical proof, nor do the minds that produce them. Yet would you say that the existence of your own mind is not a fact? Probably not. How do you know that it is real? Experience ("I think therefore I am" and all that jazz). That doesn't mean that you should accept unquestioningly when other people say that they have experienced something phenominal or unlikely, but you should (and probably do) accept it as evidence when you have no evidence to the contrary, the person who is forwarding the information is reliable/trustworthy, and the assertion is reasonable.

So is there evidence against the existence of demons? Are the many people who claim to have experiences with demons reliable insofar as they would give an honest and accurate testimony? Is the assertion of demon's existence reasonable?

Personal experiences will not convince me because there are several more plausible things that can go on in your head to make you believe you see some sort of demon than you actually seeing one. Especially when you have years of "The Fear of God" primed into your mind. Even if there are more plausible alternatives, you must consider them all. As Holmes said, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." So, if the other more plausible explanations are refuted, you are left with the existence of demons as a fact. You should never dismiss something solely on the grounds of it being improbable though (and it looks like that is what you have done).

Archemetis

01-15-2005, 08:34 PM

i think many christians blame satan, for things they dont understand or fear, because they fear satan, and make the connection, if its scary its evil, and if its evil its the work of satan.

Kharakov

01-15-2005, 09:43 PM

Corinthians 1:5 "hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord".

Some christians don't read the bible enough. Satan is a disciplinary tool of God. There is nothing 'wrong' with Satan, it just is not enjoyable to be disciplined by God. The outcome of discipline is enjoyable- knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.

You know how when you first start a workout regimen you get really sore and it isn't all that fun? Consider Satan to be a spiritual workout coach made by God.

Amanda N

01-16-2005, 05:08 AM

peace_sells: Because people don't want to admit that "shit happens"!!!

They feel helpless to prevent all the bad things that happen in their life (as well as the world in general)... so by blaming it on the devil, then saying that god will protect them from it, they feel protected and secure...

Amanda N

01-16-2005, 05:13 AM

How the fuck is that blaming god?I'm sure this has been said somewhere already or something by now.. but it's simple, surley??? if god cared about his creation, he would protect us, no?

Alsharad

01-16-2005, 01:50 PM

Corinthians 1:5 "hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord". 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Some christians don't read the bible enough. And others ignore context and audience relevance. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Satan is a disciplinary tool of God. There is nothing 'wrong' with Satan, it just is not enjoyable to be disciplined by God. The outcome of discipline is enjoyable- knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. This passage refers specifically to allowing non-repentant adulterers and fornicators (specifically male prostitutes) to remain within the church. The passage simply states that when they refuse to repent, they should be ejected from the church because such tolerance of unrepentant sin is destructive. Love the person, but do not sacrifice holiness for the sake of tolerance (which is what Corinth was doing). This passage does not speak to Satan being a tool (though he can be). And the idea that there is nothing "wrong" with Satan is simply non-scriptural. He is known as "the Dragon", "the old serpent", "the father of lies"; he is described as a "roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." The word Satan means "adversary" and "accuser".

You know how when you first start a workout regimen you get really sore and it isn't all that fun? Consider Satan to be a spiritual workout coach made by God. That is wholly unsupported by scripture. Can God use Satan as a disciplinary tool? Yes, just as He can use other worldly evils. That does not imply, however, that the whole of Satan's purpose is to act as a disciplinarian. He IS evil and there are many things that ARE wrong with him. He is not at all a "spiritual workout coach." A coach is hard on you (sometimes impossibly hard), but wants you to succeed. Satan doesn't want that. He wants you to fail completely.

Kharakov

01-16-2005, 09:24 PM

And others ignore context and audience relevance. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif The point was that Satan is used for good. Duhhhh. The entire passage is not necessary for that to be pointed out.
Love the person, but do not sacrifice holiness for the sake of tolerance (which is what Corinth was doing). That's why I don't tolerate idiocy, unless it is for fun.
And the idea that there is nothing "wrong" with Satan is simply non-scriptural. He is known as "the Dragon", "the old serpent", "the father of lies"; he is described as a "roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." The word Satan means "adversary" and "accuser". If you read further, does scripture not say that all things are holy? Are you saying that God created a faulty creature? Satan has divine purpose.
That does not imply, however, that the whole of Satan's purpose is to act as a disciplinarian. He can be a friend as well. Calling any of God's creations evil is just Jerry Springer bullshit. God's also the queen of queens (drama queen), if you don't know it yet.
Satan doesn't want that. He wants you to fail completely. Liar.

I trust God completely. If God puts Satan in my life, it is because it is Good for me. Isaiah 45:7: "I create the darkness and the light: I create good and evil: I, the Lord, do all these things." (king james version)

If you read the rest of the chapter (45) you might finally gain some understanding.

You guys are all meanies to Satan, saying that Satan is no Good and not part of God's plan. Well, %@#@ you. Satan is part of God's plan and is an essential part. That make's Satan Good, if you can't do the math yourself.

The stone the builder refused shall be a cornerstone.

When God tell's you something that God created is evil, God is lying. Who's the father of lies?

Alsharad

01-16-2005, 11:07 PM

The point was that Satan is used for good. Duhhhh. The entire passage is not necessary for that to be pointed out.
That doesn't mean that because something was used for good that it is, in essence, good. Because that would imply that the opposite is true. I thing is evil in essence because it was used for evil. It simply doesn't follow.

If you read further, does scripture not say that all things are holy? Are you saying that God created a faulty creature? Satan has divine purpose.
No. It does not say that all things are holy. It does say that only God is holy and only God is good though. Did God create a faulty creature? Well, God created a creature that had the free will to rebel. Satan HAD a divine purpose, but threw it away when he rebelled.

He can be a friend as well. Calling any of God's creations evil is just Jerry Springer bullshit. God's also the queen of queens (drama queen), if you don't know it yet.
God's creations are not evil, but they have the PROPENSITY for evil and, having a sinful nature, we bring it out.

Liar.

I trust God completely. If God puts Satan in my life, it is because it is Good for me. Isaiah 45:7: "I create the darkness and the light: I create good and evil: I, the Lord, do all these things." (king james version)
It is possible that God allows Satan and evil into your life, but that doesn't make them good in essence, though their presence might bring about good.
Regarding, the Isaiah passage, please try to include context and audience relevance. It is apparent that this verse is speaking in terms of natural disasters as opposed to moral evil. The Hebrew word "rah" can be translated as "affliction", "mischief", "sorrow", "calamity," etc. The context of the passage refers to natural phenomena (sun, light, darkness). It indicates that this passage refers not to moral evil, but to natural disasters and human comfort. Other passages support this interpretation (Exodus 4:11, Amos 3:6). Other passages in scripture also note that God is pure and cannot abide moral evil. As such, He cannot be a source of moral evil.

If you read the rest of the chapter (45) you might finally gain some understanding.
That God is the only God and that He is sovereign, yep, got it. Still not seeing how Satan is not evil.

meanies[/i] to Satan, saying that Satan is no Good and not part of God's plan. Well, %@#@ you. Satan is part of God's plan and is an essential part. That make's Satan Good, if you can't do the math yourself.
Really? At what point in God's original plan or the redemptive plan of mankind is Satan's existence essential? It isn't. As such, Satan isn't necessarily a part of the plan, he is simply a bystander that needs compensating for. Just because something is a part of a good plan doesn't mean that it is, in essence, good. The assumption you are making is non sequitur.

When God tell's you something that God created is evil, God is lying. Who's the father of lies?
Satan. But just because something is created pure doesn't mean that it is immune to corruption. You seem to assume that corruption is impossible if something is good. I don't believe that is true. Something that is created good and with free will has the ability to ruin that goodness and become evil. This view is supported by Scripture and by our everyday exerience.

Kharakov

01-17-2005, 12:55 AM

That doesn't mean that because something was used for good that it is, in essence, good. Hmm, so you can have a good hammer or a bad hammer. One that works as it is supposed to (the good hammer) and one that the head keeps falling off of. When something does not work the way a person designs it, the person calls it 'bad'. However, since God designed everything perfectly, everything does exactly what God intends it to do. Everything is Good. Only man, when he judges the hammer as bad, is wrong, because the hammer being 'bad' is part of God's plan (so is the man's error in judgement that the hammer is 'bad'). IF the hammer is used to murder someone, man would call it bad. However, it is part of God's divine plan for it to occur, therefore, in God's mind, it is good (the judgement of evil just being another error that man has made because he was created to make 'errors').

Because that would imply that the opposite is true. I thing is evil in essence because it was used for evil. It simply doesn't follow.It doesn't follow that anything God does or creates is bad (evil).

Ive gotta go, get back to this l8r... I might need to edit it too :).

Kharakov

01-17-2005, 02:20 AM

No. It does not say that all things are holy. It does say that only God is holy and only God is good though. I remember a passage about that, but could not find it. Please read romans 8:28 though.

Did God create a faulty creature? Well, God created a creature that had the free will to rebel. Satan HAD a divine purpose, but threw it away when he rebelled. Wrong. God created Satan to rebel. Satan would not have rebelled otherwise. Satan has fulfilled Satan's divine purpose.

God's creations are not evil, but they have the PROPENSITY for evil and, having a sinful nature, we bring it out. Don't you understand that you can do nothing except what God creates you to do? You will sin if you are created to sin, you will be pure if you are created to be pure. God is perfect, and all creations of God fit perfectly into God's plan. Even people (like you) who do not understand this extremely simple fact.

It is possible that God allows Satan and evil into your life, but that doesn't make them good in essence, though their presence might bring about good. So something that is good for you is not good? I call things that are good for me "good" (everything God' has given me and taught me, even the concept 'evil').

Regarding, the Isaiah passage, please try to include context and audience relevance. Other passages support this interpretation (Exodus 4:11, Amos 3:6). Umm, they support mine. "When trouble comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?" "Then the lord said to him "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes a man not able to see or hear? Is it not I, the Lord?""
Do you think that man's thoughts are not created by the Lord as well?

That God is the only God and that He is sovereign, yep, got it. Still not seeing how Satan is not evil.That's all right. There is nothing wrong with lying about Satan. God does, so why don't you go ahead and keep on doing it.

At what point in God's original plan or the redemptive plan of mankind is Satan's existence essential?We wouldn't be talking about Satan if it was not part of God's plan that we talk about Satan. It's that simple. Maybe Satan doesn't exist, you know God lies sometimes- I mean, saying a creature rebelled against God is the equivalent of saying God made a mistake, which didn't happen.

It isn't. As such, Satan isn't necessarily a part of the plan, he is simply a bystander that needs compensating for. Just because something is a part of a good plan doesn't mean that it is, in essence, good. The assumption you are making is non sequitur. It think it is logical to assume that anything that is essential to good coming about is considered good. It is also logical to assume that God wouldn't do anything without a reason (including introducing the idea of Satan).

But just because something is created pure doesn't mean that it is immune to corruption. You seem to assume that corruption is impossible if something is good. God can cause something to become corrupt, but would only do so if it was good to do so.

Something that is created good and with free will has the ability to ruin that goodness and become evil. Totally illogical. If something is good, it would not choose to become evil. Unless, of course, the good thing knew that by becoming evil, it would cause greater good to arise. This would be a case of reverse machiavellianism- something good decides to appear evil in order to bring about a greater good for everything in existence. In essence, a good being, lying about its nature in order to appear evil, causing good by doing so.

Amanda N

01-17-2005, 02:37 AM

Don't you understand that you can do nothing except what God creates you to do? You will sin if you are created to sin, you will be pure if you are created to be pure. God is perfect, and all creations of God fit perfectly into God's plan. Even people (like you) who do not understand this extremely simple fact.Please don't tell me you honistly believe this? If you do, then you're off the scale...

You're telling me that I'm sat here right now, trying this message, because god laid out this plan for me? bollocks, utter bollocks.

If this is true, then god truly is an asshole... we could all be living in utopia, sipping tea and chatting about the weather.. but no..

If what you're saying is true, then it's god's fault adam ate the apple, because god programmed him to do so. It's also god's fault that cane/kane/cain (whoever you spell it) killed his brother, etc..

I'm sorry, but no... Life is meaningless, it's up to us to give it meaning.. and to create our own destiny...

arlia

01-17-2005, 10:32 AM

i aprtly agree with ya amanda......i dont see how this guy can believe that we were a;ll created to sin,god does not create us as robots.however, yes he has a plan for you a destiny and a purpose for each and every one of us!but the great thing is that we have free will,he lets us make the desisions,so you see it is possible for us to do things that god doesnt want us to do,because we chose to,this is the permisive will of god,something which is not as good as the plans he has fro you,but he still loves you because of who you are.

god does not control anybodies life with pupet strings

BlackGuardXIII

01-17-2005, 11:00 AM

You all have wonderful attitudes, very loving.

I know that the bible says the number of days in our lives is recorded long before we are born. If we do have freewill, and that is true, God must know what we are going to choose. I wondered if this was how it was possible for my precognitive dreams to be possible. It is not my favorite explanation, though.
I feel that blaming God or Satan for our errors is a copout.
I also feel that I should pay for my own sins, and not put them onto anyone else's shoulders, ie: Jesus.

arlia

01-17-2005, 11:21 AM

atropine

01-17-2005, 01:13 PM

that is a very lovely attitude you have,but im afraid no man is righeous in the eyes fo god exept through jesus,nothing you can do can make you richeous apart from exept christ,if man could free himslef for sin,there would be no need for jesus,jesus is the only way.is says in the bible all humanity have fallen short of the grace of god,but through the life death and ressurection of christ we are set free if we believe.
while you may have a good attitude, and goodwill at heart, i still find what you say to be very usual ignorance. "no man is righeous in the eyes fo god exept through jesus", its sentences like this that make me hate christianity.

arlia

01-17-2005, 02:03 PM

not ignorance my friend,but knowing the truth,and when you have the truth you keep hold of it and defend it!
ive not believed this fro many years of my life,it was not the bible that made me understand this but learning from god.

nobody in this world is sinless,apart from jesus,sin is what seperates us from god,therfore if we had not had jesus we would all be seperate from him still,he still loved us,but the unity would not be there,because sin ruined what we had with god

atropine

01-17-2005, 02:49 PM

blatantly stating that something is truth without unconclusive proof is blatant ignorance. its the "we're right, you're wrong" mentality that engulfs the majority of christianity that makes it so unappealing. its complete ignorance and selfrighteousness. its faith, not fact. you believe jesus is the only way, you believe in your beliefs, theres nothing wrong with that. but that doesnt make them fact.

arlia

01-17-2005, 03:58 PM

without faith you will not find the truth!
christinaity is not selfrigheousness,far from that,righeous only through jesus.
christianity is not boasting about how perfect we are but lifting our hands up and admiting our mistakes and surendering to jesus,letting him make us righeous in the sight of god!
christianity is not ignorance,its standing strong,too many times i ahve seen christians dilute theyre faith and settle fro compramise because the world around us is changing......that in my opinion is hypocritical,god is the same god that he ever was,can do the same things,hral the same things,make the same miracles,there is no limitations to what god can do.

at the same time though we haveto be relevant to people around us,christinaity is not about being stuck in a time warp and listenig to all the old hyms and doing the same thing,its about being relevant to the world today,jesus is just as contravertial as he ever was 2000 years ago!some christinas need to liven up and get excited about the fact that they have freedom in christ,he set you free thats a reason to mosh in church and go crazy with the holy spirit!

im sorry if you ever think i am arrogant but i believe that it is more of a criom to make my voice silent and not speak the words that are on my heart with all boldness

Kharakov

01-17-2005, 04:14 PM

Please don't tell me you honistly believe this? If you do, then you're off the scale...Hmm, there is a scale in the other room, but currently you are correct.

You're telling me that I'm sat here right now, trying this message, because god laid out this plan for me? bollocks, utter bollocks.You ever read a good book and wonder how the author tied everything together in such an amazing way? Look at life as a book.

If this is true, then god truly is an asshole... we could all be living in utopia, sipping tea and chatting about the weather.. but no..I have said that God is an asshole. Generally I say this when God pisses me off. You know why life has to be this way, even if you don't admit it.

If what you're saying is true, then it's god's fault adam ate the apple, because god programmed him to do so. It's also god's fault that cane/kane/cain (whoever you spell it) killed his brother, etc..Of course everything is God's fault. Only asshole's and morons try to blame a person for their actions. Even in a completely scientific community, to blame a person, the product of their environment/genetics, for their actions is sheer idiocy.

I'm sorry, but no... Life is meaningless, it's up to us to give it meaning.. and to create our own destiny...Good luck. You are silly. Do you really see yourself as above and removed from the whole? Or do you see the truth, that you are part of and a product of the whole?

atropine

01-17-2005, 04:14 PM

[1]without faith you will not find the truth!
christinaity is not selfrigheousness,far from that,righeous only through jesus.
christianity is not boasting about how perfect we are but lifting our hands up and admiting our mistakes and surendering to jesus,letting him make us righeous in the sight of god!
[2]christianity is not ignorance,its standing strong,too many times i ahve seen christians dilute theyre faith and settle fro compramise because the world around us is changing......that in my opinion is hypocritical,[3]god is the same god that he ever was,can do the same things,hral the same things,make the same miracles,there is no limitations to what god can do.

1- ignoring the fact that science could be the answer, and ultimately religion could possibly be nothing but stories. nothing can prove religion to be the ultimate truth, and if there was then whats to say the truth is christian

2- of course, christianity is not ignorance, but one can easily be ignorant in regards to it.

3- if god is the same as he ever was, why arent you jewish.. if to compromise and change is hypocritical, why change because of jesus.

Kharakov

01-17-2005, 04:18 PM

not ignorance my friend,but knowing the truth,and when you have the truth you keep hold of it and defend it!
The truth defends itself without the help of man or beast. The truth needs no defender, for it will always be itself. Only a liar would claim that the truth needs to be defended, and lies are riddled with faults, ready to be blown away by the slightest wind.

arlia

01-17-2005, 04:21 PM

i defend my beliefs,because too many people these days thinks its ok to compramise them!

Kharakov

01-17-2005, 04:24 PM

3- if god is the same as he ever was, why arent you jewish.. if to compromise and change is hypocritical, why change because of jesus.
Scopolamine-

Do your ideas change and adapt? Can they not be added to and modified? This indicates your method of thought. This does not mean that God thinks the same way as man. Otherwise, we would live on a giant breast with beer flowing from the nipple.

arlia

01-17-2005, 04:31 PM

hahahaha!!!!!
that was funny!
god never changes,wen everything else falls apart and goes upside down,god is the solid rock in which we can stand

atropine

01-17-2005, 04:40 PM

if he never changes, then why is it his holy word was changed?..

arlia

01-17-2005, 04:49 PM

it never did!
his wrd will always remain the same!
the language may have changed,by the bible never did!

Amanda N

01-17-2005, 05:12 PM

Good luck. You are silly. Do you really see yourself as above and removed from the whole? Or do you see the truth, that you are part of and a product of the whole?This isn't about me... this is about everyone... I'm glad that you see meaning in your life... but the truth is, you're inventing it yourself.

campbell34

01-18-2005, 12:33 AM

The FACT? Certainly there must be some empirical proof for you to make this assertion. Personal experiences will not convince me because there are several more plausible things that can go on in your head to make you believe you see some sort of demon than you actually seeing one. Especially when you have years of "The Fear of God" primed into your mind.
It was not the fear of God that brought this about, it happened when I tried to get close to God. It was at this time I saw the power and the love of God and I saw the real face of evil. It was a number of Christians who saw this event and there was no fear of God. Jesus Christ is the real God, who has the power and it was the demons who feared that day.

Kharakov

01-18-2005, 05:00 AM

This isn't about me... this is about everyone... I'm glad that you see meaning in your life... but the truth is, you're inventing it yourself.
Umm, no I didn't. The meaning in my life has always been there. I didn't preexist meaning, it was always there. Sometimes people don't get that, and it's all right.

Kharakov

01-18-2005, 05:09 AM

i defend my beliefs,because too many people these days thinks its ok to compramise them!You only need to defend your beliefs if you harbor doubt about them. You wouldn't doubt them if they were fully formed true beliefs. God wouldn't assail your beliefs if they were true, which translates too: God wouldn't allow someone to cause doubt in your heart about a belief unless it was not a true belief.

Amanda N

01-18-2005, 05:27 AM

Umm, no I didn't. The meaning in my life has always been there. I didn't preexist meaning, it was always there. Sometimes people don't get that, and it's all right.So who is it that discovers a person's meaning?

Kharakov

01-18-2005, 07:46 AM

So who is it that discovers a person's meaning?You don't know that yet? Doesn't meaning arise from interaction? You do not pre-exist the God you have risen from and any meaning you find precedes you. It exists for you to find and be a part of, not invent.

Amanda N

01-18-2005, 01:45 PM

You don't know that yet? Doesn't meaning arise from interaction? You do not pre-exist the God you have risen from and any meaning you find precedes you. It exists for you to find and be a part of, not invent.I'm sorry, but I feel you are very much mistaken. Your life has no meaning, you feel guilty for being alive, so you justify your self existance by inventing meaning.

Unless you have some proof you care to offer? and i'm not talking about the bible, unless you can prove that it's the direct word of god, which no one can - because it's not.

atropine

01-18-2005, 02:47 PM

I'm sorry, but I feel you are very much mistaken. Your life has no meaning, you feel guilty for being alive, so you justify your self existance by inventing meaning.

Unless you have some proof you care to offer? and i'm not talking about the bible, unless you can prove that it's the direct word of god, which no one can - because it's not.
that was a stupid post..

BlackGuardXIII

01-18-2005, 03:26 PM

Now, putting each other down and claiming to know God's plan for a fact, are clearly signs of demonic possession. Or at least its not productive.
I say Satan gets a lot of blame cuz he's such an easy mark. 'Blame Satan, no one would doubt that he was at fault.'
Maybe he's just misunderstood, and is actually more of a mischevious entity, than an evil one?
Thoughts anyone?

arlia

01-18-2005, 03:26 PM

BlackGuardXIII

01-18-2005, 03:35 PM

proof doesnt lye jsut in the word of god!
there are too many miracles that have happened in this world,too mant signs and wonders to ever make me think that they isnt a god,also i have a personal relationship with him,so i knwo whith all my heart that he is very much a living and relevant god in my life
I support your life path arlia, and I too have seen many miracles. None of them led me to conclude that I should give up taking the responsibility for my sins, and hang them on Jesus shoulders. They did not even tell me that God is real. I believe in prayer having great power to heal, miracles, magic, spirit guides or guardian angels, and that good will forever triumph over evil.

Of course I could be 100% wrong, but that is my decision and so if I am wrong I will not blame Ol' Nick.

Amanda N

01-18-2005, 04:21 PM

that was a stupid post..why? It sounds to me like you can't accept what I'm saying, but don't have a valid argument to fight back with...

arlia

01-18-2005, 04:31 PM

I support your life path arlia, and I too have seen many miracles. None of them led me to conclude that I should give up taking the responsibility for my sins, and hang them on Jesus shoulders. They did not even tell me that God is real. I believe in prayer having great power to heal, miracles, magic, spirit guides or guardian angels, and that good will forever triumph over evil.

Of course I could be 100% wrong, but that is my decision and so if I am wrong I will not blame Ol' Nick.
bein responsibel fro your own sin is a very selfless thing,i admire that!
if you put your sin on jesus it does not mean that you are blaming him,just excepting that there is nothing you can do to make yourslef right with god in your worn strength,nobody is good enough a person to be righeous in gods eyes as we are all with sin,the only way to heaven is through jesus,who made our path clear.

some people would call it the devine exchange,giving your lack of life to receive fulness of life,giving your depression,to receive bountiful joy,giving your dirt and filth and confusion to receive pureness,freshness and wisdom.

thank you blackguard!
my path is with jesus christ!

Kharakov

01-18-2005, 06:09 PM

Your life has no meaning, you feel guilty for being alive, so you justify your self existance by inventing meaning. Umm, no. That's pretty funny that you think that though, since you probably have felt that way yourself sometime if you believe other people think that way.

Meaning pre-exists you. To have a purpose, like, duhh george, i think i'm meant to be a doctor you need to have all the ailments that a Dr. cures. To be a <medical> Dr. without Disease or ailments would be completely pointless. Now tell me this, did the cures and the diseases pre-exist the Dr. discovering them, or did the Dr. Invent them?

disclaimer: Invent was used in olden times to mean: discover or find. Nowadays, I think the common usage of the word means :fabricate, produce, or develop... something along those lines.

Unless you have some proof you care to offer? Not right now. If you can't see that meaning must pre-exist the finder of the meaning from the example above...