UFOs: Inteligent beings or Demons from Hell? [Archive]

Alsharad

06-27-2004, 02:34 PM

This could be a big reason why alien existence would be (is) covered up, them being regarded as 'demons' by religious nuts.
So if aliens do not support Christianity they are then thought to be 'demons'? Sillyness.
Perhaps they ARE demons? Have you actually considered that? Is it a possibility at all?

"The UFO messages deny the authority of the Bible, deny Christ's sacrificial death for our salvation, and deny that Jesus is the only way to the Father."

Jesus is the only way? Talk about pride...
If there is pride involved then the pride is Christ's - "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me."

Jesus said He was the only way. Christians are just echoing the teachings of their God. You call that pride? I would call it "standing for what you believe in."

Aliens are much more intelligent than we are. Think about that in relation to the view of the next life that they are leaving us.
And you know this how? How do you know they are more intelligent? I think you are drawing from the assumption that they have vastly superior technology. Maybe they are a lot less intelligent but had 100,000 years to reach the level of technology that we have put together in 6,000. Maybe they have a recorded history of hundreds of thousands of years... with an average IQ of 80.

Just for fun, consider this regarding aliens:
They can alter our perception of our surroundings.

They can appear to us in any number of guises, and shapes. Also, both are capable ofhiding in the physical sense, as well, within the layered psyche and often within the physical or quantum or interstitial body of the host.

Demons were often compared to stinging insects (Belzebuth – the fly). Many UFO percipients report interactions with UFO occupants resembling insects

They can “possess” our bodies, install one of their own entities, and use our bodies as vehicles for their own activities before returning our consciousness to our bodies.

They manipulate, or in some way force their subjects to perform acts against the subjects' wills, including forced sexual intercourse, violent crime, and suicide.

They live visible marks on the bodies (witch hunters were looking for such marks as proofs of obedience to the Devil). Abductees receive marks on their bodies other than the well-known scoops and straight-line scars. These other marks include single punctures, multiple punctures, large bruises, three- and four-fingered claw marks, and triangles of every possible sort.

They try to convince percipients that they are special chosen ones, and often promise rewards for cooperation and implementation of the entities' agenda. They take body fluids from our necks, spines, blood veins, joints such as knees and wrists, and other places.

They claim to represent the Light, i.e. a higher spiritual power, even though the literal translation of the name Lucifer can be “Light Bearer”.

Aliens and fairies come into homes and temporarily remove young children, leaving their distraught parents paralyzed and helpless. In cases where a parent has been able to protest, the aliens insist that "The children belong to us."

Now, I am not saying that I agree with all of that, but it is, at least, a marginal possibility that aliens are not from outer-space, but are from a co-existing other dimension. It is also important to note that UFOs have defied the laws of physics. There are two possible explanations:

1) they are possessed of some unknown, advanced technology which follows a principle that is unknown in modern physics which allows them to break the "laws" of physics with impunity

2) they are not physical entities and are therefore not bound by any physical law

Both are unverifiable and based solely on opinions. Either one leaves you with having to accept your choice on faith.

loverofthewoods

06-27-2004, 09:32 PM

what if i were to tell you i could write a report that offered all kinds of evidence that christ never existed? would you read it??? and if you did would you read it with an open mind? christianity is recycled paganism...look to the ancient egyptions, that is the farthest back source i can find for these stories

im not even going to start on the aliens cause i would be typing for quite a while...but you could call them demons if you want, some of them anyway...there is more that one race that pay us visit.

FreakyJoeMan

06-27-2004, 10:18 PM

Snicker...wow, some people are reeaaaallllyyy retarted.

mother_nature's_son

06-28-2004, 06:08 AM

If there is pride involved then the pride is Christ's - "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me."

Jesus said He was the only way. Christians are just echoing the teachings of their God. You call that pride? I would call it "standing for what you believe in.""They appeal to human pride with salvation by works or reliance upon the divine within"

Christianity appeals to human pride with salvation by reliance upon Jesus the one and only true savior.

Christ's pride has transpired into Christianity as a whole. That foundational pride has never been lost, in fact, it's effect has only become greater.

How do you know they are more intelligent? I think you are drawing from the assumption that they have vastly superior technology. Maybe they are a lot less intelligent but had 100,000 years to reach the level of technology that we have put together in 6,000. Maybe they have a recorded history of hundreds of thousands of years... with an average IQ of 80.6,000 years?!

Tool-making has existed on earth as long as 2.5 million years. Our ancestors were certainly fashioning implements and practicing manual skills 100,000 years ago.

If it has only taken these creatures 100,000 years to develop the capability to visit other solar systems, they must be incomparably intelligent!

Aliens are more intelligent than humans, as they are able to achieve communication with us. They have broken the boundary of language with telepathic communication. Apparently, they also have smaller bodies and larger brains.

Perhaps they ARE demons? Have you actually considered that? Is it a possibility at all?{First, some questions for you: Perhaps Christianity IS wrong? Have you actually considered that? Is it a possibility at all?}

A species that has existed long enough (much longer than humans, as you have suggested) to reach the level of technology that aliens have reached, must be quite righteous and peaceful in order to get along with each other so well (especially if they collaborate with average I.Q.'s of 80). Do you think humans will ever make it that far? The differences and problems we create amongst ourselves (a big one- religion) sure aren't making it any easier for us. (Maybe this is why aliens do not support Christianity)

In fact, I have considered aliens to be demons, when I was a Christian.
A rationally minded person may well cogitate the existence of 'demons' and then attribute this to extraterrestrial visitors, but to do all this in the name of fear, is certainly not reason enough to believe, or even come close. Personally, I will accept any alien visitors I encounter with peace and love, which I may have already done... cannot say with certainty if that was a dream or not...

meishka

06-28-2004, 06:12 AM

Snicker...wow, some people are reeaaaallllyyy retarted.
yes they are. oh no the liens are gonna get us!

ChiefCowpie

06-28-2004, 01:13 PM

aliens are cool...i smoke pot with them all the time

Alsharad

06-28-2004, 02:11 PM

"They appeal to human pride with salvation by works or reliance upon the divine within"

Christianity appeals to human pride with salvation by reliance upon Jesus the one and only true savior.

Christ's pride has transpired into Christianity as a whole. That foundational pride has never been lost, in fact, it's effect has only become greater.
It is only pride if He was wrong. He said He was God. If He was right, then it would not be pride. It would simply be a statement of fact. If He was God, then He *is* the only way. If not, then, as Paul said, Christianity is a farce and we are to be pitied among men.

6,000 years?!

Tool-making has existed on earth as long as 2.5 million years. Our ancestors were certainly fashioning implements and practicing manual skills 100,000 years ago.

If it has only taken these creatures 100,000 years to develop the capability to visit other solar systems, they must be incomparably intelligent!
Thanks for completely picking apart the analogy without attempting to understand the meaning. Fine, let's say that it took them 10 billion years to get to their current level.

Aliens are more intelligent than humans, as they are able to achieve communication with us. They have broken the boundary of language with telepathic communication. Apparently, they also have smaller bodies and larger brains.
Ummm... that doesn't imply more intelligence, just a different method of communication. Some insects can see UV light, but does that mean they have broken the vision barrier? No - it's just the way that they are. You assume that they have somehow developed telepathy intentionally. If it is just the way that they communicate, then it, in no way, implies greater intelligence. Note that a spiritual entity can ONLY communicate that way (as the lack of physical bodies makes speaking difficult).

And squid have the highest brain to body mass ratio of any creature on the planet, yet they still do not evidence more intelligence than other creatures on this planet (like humans).

{First, some questions for you: Perhaps Christianity IS wrong? Have you actually considered that? Is it a possibility at all?}
I wrestle with that every day. I do consider it and yes, it is a possibility. In fact, I try to be more critical of Christianity than of anything else. Don't want people to think that I am *gasp* intolerant.

A species that has existed long enough (much longer than humans, as you have suggested) to reach the level of technology that aliens have reached, must be quite righteous and peaceful in order to get along with each other so well (especially if they collaborate with average I.Q.'s of 80).
Careful of the idea that they 'must' be righteous and peaceful. They might be peaceful with eachother but it doesn't at all mean that they would necessarily have good intentions toward us. It would mean that they would at the least have agreements to work together without open agression toward each other, but your faith in aliens being friendly and peaceful I believe is misguided. Why? Because super-intelligent beings can still disagree on how to do things. I get the feeling that you see aliens as a unified group of individuals who have achieved some sort of monolithic understanding of the universe and have banded together in a unified racial vision (which might or might no include destruction of other races/species). That is just not consistent with social patterns that we see (not even in animals). There might be a banding together, but there is ALWAYS conflict. The larger the body of individuals, the larger and more widespread the conflict. I think you have a fantasy about what aliens are like, but the idea that they 'must' be righteous and peaceful is ludicrous.

Do you think humans will ever make it that far? The differences and problems we create amongst ourselves (a big one- religion) sure aren't making it any easier for us. (Maybe this is why aliens do not support Christianity)
If it means giving up my free will to the racial goal, then I hope we never make it that "far." Maybe the reason that aliens do not support Christianity is because they are demons attempting to undermine our salvation. Maybe they do not understand Christianity at all and refuse to support something that they do not understand. The experiences of peaceful contact generally put forth new age teachings and a lot of new agers are involved (sometimes unintentionally) in the occult. In fact, how many new agers have "alien" encounters in comparison to those who do not follow new age teachings? I don't know. If it was higher than normal, would it be simply coincidence? Possibly. Possibly not.

In fact, I have considered aliens to be demons, when I was a Christian. A rationally minded person may well cogitate the existence of 'demons' and then attribute this to extraterrestrial visitors, but to do all this in the name of fear, is certainly not reason enough to believe, or even come close. Personally, I will accept any alien visitors I encounter with peace and love, which I may have already done... cannot say with certainty if that was a dream or not...
Not fear. A healthy dose of skepticism. There are many parallels between alien encounters and demonic encounters. I am not necessarily saying that they ARE demons, but it is not an idea to dismiss without careful consideration. It is good that you would accept them with peace and love (as Christ calls us to do, BTW) so long as you do not accept their ideas and teachings with the same lack of skepticism.

It is okay to be skeptical of an idea, even to be biased against it (so long as you are willing to consider it).

POPthree13

06-28-2004, 07:30 PM

Maybe aliens are angels.... They attack christianity becasue the religion is lost. :)

TheProphetoftheWord

06-29-2004, 08:06 PM

Much amusement stands here!
Thank you.

To debate silliness contrived for the occasion is a truly human trait, for in ALL existence none can make more of nothing than a group of faceless humans.

campbell34

07-02-2004, 06:55 AM

"Most people who believe in UFOs think they are visitors from another planet. Although many sightings can be dismissed as hoaxes, hallucinations, or mistakes, not all can be ignored. Too many witnesses are credible, their reports too consistent, and the nature of effects on contactees too obvious."

What is it about Jesus Christ that drives our space brothers crazy?

If they are so intelligent and good, why have so many people been hurt by them either by physical abductions, radiation burns, mental trauma, bizarre experimentation on umwilling human subjects, ect.

Often they tell people that because of Christ's failure they have come to save the world. If that is true, they sure have a funny way of doing it.

strawpuppy

07-02-2004, 07:20 AM

What if:

Aliens were not from another planet......

They lived under the earth.....

What if: They were evolutionary survivors.....from maybe 1 ot 2 miillion years ago...

What if: The ancient Gods are these aliens from our own planet....

Earth IS going to have another ice age...these ice ages can last hundreds of thousands of years.......

One of the few places on the planet to escape ice ages is Brazil.....and lo and behold "Legends" of people under the earth and Gods abound there.....

What if: Atlantis was an advanced evolutionary culture and faced an ice age and they went and lived under ground.....(What would we do with our technology today ?)....

Why is it that all that is known of pre flood fallen angels is (including Satan...who roams the EARTH)....Is that they were bound not to disturb the new creation...and that they are a bad lot.....

What if: This is not a load of "old hogwash".................And it is true...

Then would someone like to tell me what the hell is going on here as I do not have a clue....

Thanks,

Strawpuppy

campbell34

07-02-2004, 05:21 PM

POPthree13

07-02-2004, 06:18 PM

From the beginning there has been a struggle between good and evil. We are living in a day when the end-time prophecies are going to be fulfilled. Jesus Christ is coming back to the earth again to remove both living and the dead to be with him. The devil is a real being who also wants to take as many people with him as he can. Who we side with is up to each individual. God says most people love darkness rather than light.
Christians have been saying that Jesus is coming back 'soon' for just about 2000 years. There is inherent duality in the universe... dark and light, push and pull, yin and yang. To call one bad and the other good is to deny the necessity of them both. All of life, indeed all of the universe, is created as a balance between the two. There is creation and destruction. To build a new home sometimes you must tear down the old, to live another day you must kill to fill your belly. To draw lines is to judge, to eat from the tree of the 'knowledge of good and evil'. Eat if you will, takes sides if you must, but I think it best to leave judgement up to those who can see the big picture.

If aliens are abducting people and probing them and whatnot, what's the big deal? I guess you are not aware of how we treat our fellow creatures on this planet. We test our drugs on them, infect them with diseases, raise our food in inhumane boxes, do all manner of evil unto them and then we expect to be treated better by a race that may well be as 'superior' to us and we are to cows? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

FreakyJoeMan

07-02-2004, 08:39 PM

But, Pop, you must remember, animals are infreior to us, so it doesn't matter if we abduct, probe or torture them!(Hint: Sarcasm)

campbell34

07-03-2004, 06:29 PM

POPthree13,

"Christians have been saying that Jesus is coming back 'soon' for just about 2000 years."

-You can't blame the Bible for early Christians misconceptions, for if they read the Bible closely they would have realized that many world events that the Bible talks about where still far off into the future.

"There is inherent duality in the universe... dark and light, push and pull, yin and yang. To call one bad and the other good is to deny the necessity of them both. All of life, indeed all of the universe, is created as a balance between the two. There is creation and destruction. To build a new home sometimes you must tear down the old, to live another day you must kill to fill your belly. To draw lines is to judge, to eat from the tree of the 'knowledge of good and evil'. Eat if you will, takes sides if you must, but I think it best to leave judgement up to those who can see the big picture."

-With this reasoning, somebody steals someone returns, someone murders someone saves, someone rapes someonem loves. Lets all look the other way, and let us not judge those who steal, murder and rape! Let them run free in our neighborhoods and leave the judgement up to those who see the big picture. I think I will smoke another joint now.

"If aliens are abducting people and probing them and whatnot, what's the big deal? I guess you are not aware of how we treat our fellow creatures on this planet. We test our drugs on them, infect them with diseases, raise our food in inhumane boxes, do all manner of evil unto them and then we expect to be treated better by a race that may well be as 'superior' to us and we are to cows? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

-Well I guess if a few people are mean to animals, everyone deserves to be sexually abused and torchered by aliens. That makes a lot of sense.

TheProphetoftheWord

07-04-2004, 06:09 AM

The misconceptions of Christians, past, present and future lays as a patch across the eyes.
The teaching of Jesus are not mere rigid words; nay, I say too you that they are as a texture of cloth amongst the sewn quilt of His life. Jesus lay not in a word or a book of days past nor a grave of man.
Jesus and His life stand as a living testament of the Lord. Know Jesus with your heart and mind. Know him on this day as a friend past the trees, not words from days gone by.
Jesus hides not in houses of whorship. He is here. There.
He speaks now to your Christian heart. Why do so many not listen?

campbell34

07-04-2004, 06:34 PM

"Why do so many not listen?"

Because the world is evil and people spend to much time watching MTV-learning nothing and pretending that they are versed in the Bible.

loverofthewoods

07-05-2004, 12:30 AM

the bible contains more translation errors that any other book in history...if you want the truth go to the original source for these stories....research the ancient egyptions and what they believed....yes 3000 years before christ was allegidly born...

strawpuppy

07-05-2004, 08:47 AM

Moses wrote the bible..

Moses was educated in an Egyptian palace school....He was taught from an older document that was some 2000 (don't quote me on that...it was thousands of years earlier...) He realised that this epic that he was being taught was about his own people/tribe the...Hebrews...(From Abraham and Noah...) He then rose up a rebellion, enjoined his people into a physical force and led them out of Egypt...AND THEN WROTE THE BIBLE'S FIRST PART......

The original that Moses took his inspiration from still exists today....I've checked it out............Good Idea if you check it out too.....pre dates the bible and the bible has excerpts from it...

This is the start of the learning curve...Keep at it cause it has a long and winding path.....If you are searching for the TRUTH...Keep going till you find it....and BTW...do not be afraid to look and back up all that is quoted as TRUTH.....

BON VOYAGE..

Love you all

strawpuppy

campbell34

07-05-2004, 07:48 PM

If Moses just took his stories from other writings, why have they discovered Moses's Red Sea Crossing point and why are they finding the bottom with coral incrusted human bones, spears, and charriot wheels? I think this is part of the learning curve too.

Check out Ron Wyatt's website...
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

loverofthewoods

07-06-2004, 01:40 AM

im talking about how so many cutures around the world...including eqypt have deities much like christ...being born of a virgin mother...being killed only to return 3 days later...suposed to return again, ect. ect. ect. the egyptions had a god named horus born of a virgin...crucified and returned 3 days later...and is prophesised to return again. interesting is it not? the egyptions had this god thousands of years before christianity or christ. CHRISTIANITY IS RECYCLED PAGANISM...SAME STORIES...SAME SYMBOLISM...DIFFERENT DATES AND NAMES

loverofthewoods

07-06-2004, 01:47 AM

here are some more deities that tell teh same "jesus" story:

Adad of Assyria
Adonis, Apollo, Heracles ("Hercules") and Zeus of Greece
Alcides of Thebes
Attis of Phrygia
Baal of Phoenicia
Bali of Afghanistan
Beddru of Japan
Buddha of India
Crite of Chaldea
Deva Tat of Siam
Hesus of the Druids
Horus, Osiris, and Serapis of Egypt, whose long-haired, bearded appearance was adopted for the Christ character
Indra of Tibet/India
Jao of Nepal
Krishna of India
Mikado of the Sintoos
Mithra of Persia
Odin of the Scandinavians
Prometheus of Caucasus/Greece
Quetzalcoatl of Mexico
Salivahana of Bermuda
Tammuz of Syria (who was, in a typical mythmaking move, later turned into the disciple Thomas)
Thor of the Gauls
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls
Wittoba of the Bilingonese
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zarathustra/Zoroaster of Persia
Zoar of the Bonzes

loverofthewoods

07-06-2004, 01:48 AM

Horus of Egypt

Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."
He had 12 disciples.
He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
He walked on water.
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys").
Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.

loverofthewoods

07-06-2004, 01:48 AM

Mythra of Persia

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper"

loverofthewoods

07-06-2004, 01:49 AM

Krishna of India

Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki ("Divine One")
His father was a carpenter.
His birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh.
He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
He was of royal descent.
He was baptized in the River Ganges.
He worked miracles and wonders.
He raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and the blind.
Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love.
"He lived poor and he loved the poor."
He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
Krishna is called the "Shepherd God" and "Lord of lords," and was considered "the Redeemer, Firstborn, Sin Bearer, Liberator, Universal Word."
He is the second person of the Trinity, and proclaimed himself the "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father."
He was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and the End," ("Alpha and Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.
His disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus," meaning "pure essence."
Krishna is to return to do battle with the "Prince of Evil," who will desolate the earth.

loverofthewoods

07-06-2004, 01:51 AM

Must i continue? if you dont belive me i DARE you to do the research

there is so much more evidence that "christ" as we know him never existed that has nothing to do with older sources for the same stories

strawpuppy

07-06-2004, 04:02 AM

Hi there,

It is exciting to hear that they have found that evidence...
I'm not saying he did not exist, but that he was probably very clever, did some research into what he was being taught, concluded that the ancient writings were of his own people (the Hebrews)....then got them together to start the exodus to the promised land..

I also saw a documentary on how a volcano that errupted around that time drained the water out of the Red sea...

It's all very interesting...

The path you go down depends on the questions you ask and the answers you get........It's all so very personal, just reading posts here over the last 6 months has been an eye opener for me...

strawpuppy

POPthree13

07-06-2004, 10:33 PM

Watch out for Ron Wyatt's research. I like his theory on the exodus point, but his work on Noah's arc is complete bunk. He asserts many things that we know to be completely untrue. Like wood fossilized in 4000 years or that trees didn't have growth rings before then. Wood takes millions of years to fossilize and there are tress still alive (growth rings and all) that are over 4,800 years old. How do you trust someone who peddles complete falsehoods to prove his point and further his cause?

strawpuppy

07-07-2004, 01:48 AM

Who's he...did someone quote him...if so which bit?

thanks....

strawpuppy

RainbowLovinHippy

07-07-2004, 01:55 AM

I think some aliens are from the future and some are from the past. I think there intelligent and im may have seen a ufo once! lolol.

Thethirdbenjamin

07-07-2004, 02:12 AM

UFO's can be almost anything, a UFO can be a simple vapour of gas, that we don't know about.

but in general i think the "genuine UFOS" are piloted by some devloped superhumans from the future.

I mean have you noted the descriptions of Aliens, they are almost like humans only they are missing some features and have some features we don't have.

but I read some aritcle by some crazy man that he clamied that jesus whould come down to earth, in UFO right before jugment day.

I don't know what that man meant exactly, but its sounds a little hard to grasp.

I'm stil trying to understand Ezekiel's accounts in the bible they seam like aliens or ufos to me.

campbell34

07-07-2004, 05:17 AM

loverofthewoods

07-07-2004, 05:42 AM

Thethirdbenjamin,

"UFO's can be almost anything, a UFO can be a simple vapour of gas, that we don't know about."

-Well what we do know about aliens is they have hurt many people over the years by burning them, injecting them with foriegn substances, scaring them psychologically, ect. Also they embrace all world religions except Christianity. They seem to have a great dislike for Jesus Christ. Which may give you a window as to what they are about. Eziekel mentions a vision of God which some interpret as a flying saucer. One thing for sure, the UFOs have a future agenda which will more likely be tied into the coming Antichrist and not Jesus.

Learn more....

http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/babylonwhat makes you think they embrace all world religions exept christianity?? i can only guess your information has come from christians and christian sources. certin alien races are driven by fear...thats their role in this spiritual war. perhaps its just that christians are more fearful of such things, but it isnt because their christians that they get fucked with. loose your fear and you have nothing to fear...these entities wont wast their time with a strong spirit.

also its of my opinion that the site you posted has mounds of misinformation.
such misinformation is meant to keep people in fear...we have nothing to fear.

this "apocalypse" is not going to come as teh pope would have us believe...not the end of the world but rather, the end of an age...begining of a new. our collective conciousness will trancend the 4th and become part of the 5th dimension. sure we will see some hard times before its over, but this is a great time to be apart of...we're playing out the most beautiful time in our history...the end game.

...dont take anything i say personal if you dont agree, im just speaking my mind

campbell34

07-07-2004, 06:15 AM

loverofthewoods,

"certin alien races are driven by fear...thats their role in this spiritual war. perhaps its just that christians are more fearful of such things, but it isnt because their christians that they get fucked with. loose your fear and you have nothing to fear...these entities wont wast their time with a strong spirit."

-Now where do you get your fear philosophy...Is it your own?? Tell your slogan to the people that have been abducted and sexually abused by them. And yes the specific site i looked at was a christian website... There are not many secular websites on this subject out there however there has been studies on UFOs and religion and they have came up with the same conclusion.

"also its of my opinion that the site you posted has mounds of misinformation. such misinformation is meant to keep people in fear...we have nothing to fear."
-Yes, I can tell it is your opinion. Such information is for to warn people about what is going to happen. It is not made up by a single person but from the Bible. If you have a problem with the story then I am sure you have a problem with the Bible. You would have to white out the Bible to not believe this story. I ready to debate the Bible's validity at any time...

"...dont take anything i say personal if you dont agree, im just speaking my mind"

-I never take anything on this forum personal, its just a simple debate

loverofthewoods

07-08-2004, 02:06 AM

-Now where do you get your fear philosophy...Is it your own?? Tell your slogan to the people that have been abducted and sexually abused by them. And yes the specific site i looked at was a christian website... There are not many secular websites on this subject out there however there has been studies on UFOs and religion and they have came up with the same conclusion.

mostly i speak from personal expirience...and the race i refer to are the reptilians. it is just a theory but many who study them would say the same

You would have to white out the Bible to not believe this story. I ready to debate the Bible's validity at any time...

refer to my previous posts in this thread...i think the bible is incredibly inaccurate and contains many many translation errors. (or at least the popular versions like king james...im not sure about the original as iv never read it)

i guess no one really knows what these entities are all about (how could they?)...its just one of those things we can only speculate on

campbell34

07-08-2004, 04:29 AM

loverofthewoods,

The people that try to prove the Bible wrong only usually search for literature and websites against the Bible because they do not want to believe the truth because then they will have to change, change for the good and people love their evil ways. People will go to great heights in attempt to prove the Bible wrong just so they continue their sinful lives.

Christians are always referred to as narrow minded but the real narrow minded people are the ones who dont check out what the Bible is really about.

This man was like most other people in the world he passed off the Bible as ancient history and no longer relevent to this world. Until he actually checked what the Bible was really about, then he saw the truth...

THE BIGGEST SKEPTIC IN THE WORLD: IT COULD HAVE BEEN ME
(courtesy of http://bibledesk.com/ (http://bibledesk.com/))
To the best of my memory, before I came to the saving grace of Jesus Christ, I did not believe the Bible was true. I doubted whether there was a God and believed that we were born, lived so many years, and then died. I owned a successful business and thought that I had succeeded by my own wits.
One evening, my wife and I heard some documentation that these were the last days before Jesus Christ would actually return. Not really wanting to hear it, I almost walked out. Something kept me there, and I listened. I was not convinced. I still had doubts whether or not there was a God. I doubted whether there really was a Satan, heaven, hell, or a judgment. Just to be sure, however, I decided to do a little research. My idea was to find out if the Bible was really true. Indeed, if I could find one contradiction, one error, or anything in the Bible that was not true, then that would be all that was needed to disregard it. (I wasn't necessarily interested in whether we were in the latter days or not, but just trying to find out if the Bible was really true.) I believed this would take a very short time.
As I have learned, the Bible has about 10,000 prophecies (verses). Nearly one-third of the Bible is directly or indirectly related to prophecy. This endeavour led me into far more research than I could have suspected. One thing needed, was to determine when the Bible was actually written. Because of this, a study of biblical history and archaeology was necessary. I found the Old Testament was indeed written before the coming of Jesus, as the Dead Sea Scrolls (containing parts of the book of Isaiah) were proven to have been written before Jesus came. The book of Isaiah includes forecasts of Jesus. Thousands of clay tablets have also been found, which confirm many accounts in the Bible.
I began studying the prophecies in the Bible. My wife would go to the library for me to obtain documentation from reference books to see if the prophecies really did take place. One day went by, then two days, and then a week. Every prophecy that we were able to get information on proved to be accurate. Two weeks went by. Then four weeks passed. My job became of secondary importance. Every prophecy that we were able to verify checked as being true. I was astonished, but far from convinced. I still had doubts as to whether there was a God, a heaven, or a hell yet I had to be sure. Later, there were people who would show me what appeared to be contradictions in the Bible, yet these were not contradictions at all, but only a lack of research on the part of those that said these things. I was searching to find if the Bible was true. My wife spent a lot of time at the library making copies of various reference materials, which I would check out against the Scriptures. Stubborn, that's me. Even after four weeks of intensive study, proving prophecy after prophecy was true, I was still skeptical and refused to believe. I began taking more time off from my business and investing it in study. One month turned into two, and two months turned into four. The more I researched, the more determined I became. It wasn't possible. The Bible could not be perfect. Thousands of prophecies, and every one perfect? No, impossible! Sixty-six books written by many people over hundreds of years and not one error? If I would admit that, I would have to admit there was a God, and I was not prepared to do it, even after months of research.
My studies also included various translations of the Bible, checking prophecies against reference books, archaeological discoveries, just to mention some. It became an obsession with me. My foremost desire was to know the truth. Four months turned into many months. I've never known anyone, before or since, that was willing to take this amount of time just to find out if the Bible was true. Finally, I had to admit I was wrong.
If you would walk across the street 10,000 times and never get hit, then you would walk across the street the next time by faith. So it was with me. Finally, after spending almost countless hours of research, I had to admit the Bible is true and is indeed the perfect Word of God. Anyone willing to take the time I did and do the same research, could only come to the same conclusion, if they are honest with themselves. I may have been the biggest skeptic in the world, but now I know. It did not come easy, but by God's mercy and grace, it did come.

campbell34

07-14-2004, 06:28 AM

Hey popthree, I was looking at other forums and I came across a comment you had about UFOs:

"Maybe our planet has been under alien control since the late 40's... I am not saying it is... but who's to say it ain't? :P"

It's intresting how these "aliens" start showing up in the same time period that the Bible gives when Christ will return. The Bible says when the Jews return to Israel that that generation will not pass. Well the Jews returned to Israel in 1948. There will be people still living from 1948 when Christ returns. And like you said these aliens or UFOs started showing up in the 1940's. In the end, God will send a powerful delusion. As one can see-or maybe not-this has already started. The delusion is already in play and many already are believing the lie all because "they refuse to believe the truth."

2 Thess. 2:10-12
"and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

After the true Christians are Raptured, the AntiChrist will step forward
and explained the disappearance away as a final UFO abduction. The Antichrist will declare that the final abduction was to get rid of the the evil people-the Christians. This new leader will exercise control over strange light ships of the sky, and he will take credit for removing those who would oppose his rule. People will be amazed with his miracles and with his backing of the "intelligent beings" people will say, "Who would make war with this man?" The world will believe that the UFOs came to help them, only to discover too late that their occupants are really demons from Hell. Then will begin the time of unimaginable horrors and the reign of the Anti-Christ."

mother_nature's_son

07-14-2004, 02:08 PM

2 Thess. 2:10-12
"and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."
campbell,

In regard to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, it says in verse 9 quote:

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of satan, displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs, and wonders"

How typical is this of religion?

To tell you: "Any 'miracles, signs, and wonders' that are not products of this doctrine are fake, and come from 'the evil one'. "

Should all religions that do not agree (because each religion is a unique cultural creation) be telling each other this?

Nobody is right if everybody is wrong...

campbell34

07-14-2004, 08:18 PM

campbell,

In regard to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, it says in verse 9 quote:

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of satan, displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs, and wonders"

To tell you: "Any 'miracles, signs, and wonders' that are not products of this doctrine are fake, and come from 'the evil one'. "

Should all religions that do not agree (because each religion is a unique cultural creation) be telling each other this?

-Don't blame religion for the prophecies of the Bible. The organized Christian faith did not get started until about 200 years after the Bible was written. And the Bible can't be faulted for accurate prophecies.

The Bible predicts that a man of sin will come in the last days and will be able to call fire down from heaven in the sight of men. He will claim that he is God and he will demand that all people worship him. Those who refuse will be put to death. Those who worship him will receive a mark in their right hand or forhead. Without the mark you will not be able to buy or sell. According to the Bible this will take place after the Jews have returned back to Israel and are in pocession of Jerusalem.

-The only thing unique about religions is that one faith might be telling the true while all the rest are lying. You cannot have an honest faith filled with blantant contradictions. Since the Old and New Testiment fortells future events before they happen, I tend to believe something that is verifiably true.

mother_nature's_son

07-14-2004, 11:12 PM

The organized Christian faith did not get started until about 200 years after the Bible was written.Yea, and the bible wasn't written for 200 years after Jesus supposedly resurrected.

The Bible predicts that a man of sin will come in the last days and will be able to call fire down from heaven in the sight of men. He will claim that he is God and he will demand that all people worship him. Those who refuse will be put to death. Those who worship him will receive a mark in their right hand or forhead. Without the mark you will not be able to buy or sell. According to the Bible this will take place after the Jews have returned back to Israel and are in pocession of Jerusalem.So this isn't about aliens then? If it is a 'man of sin' that will come?

-The only thing unique about religions is that one faith might be telling the true while all the rest are lying. Nobody is right if everybody is wrong...
And with religion, all of them are wrong according to each other.

Religion was created as humans civilized- as we banded together and thus conquered the game of survival, to the point that we were able to sit around comfortably and ponder the concept of god. Each unique religion is simply the product of a unique culture. Religion happened throughout the world around, generally, the same time. Happened on every continent inhabitable by humans.

Do you really believe that god is going to discriminate with his 'truth' and only give his word to one group of people while the rest are inherently in the dark, doomed to hell?

So many religions exist because human spirituality can be accessed in a multitude of ways. Are the feelings of spirituality that non-Christian religions conjure actually counterfeit feelings?

You cannot have an honest faith filled with blantant contradictions. Blatant contradictions- like that 'god so loved the world that he gave his only son' but only happened to tell a certain group of people in a certain area of land in a short period of time?
And on top of that, it is the doctrine you subscribe to and not the quality of your character that determines your eternal fate?

Or that, yea, the modern bible has left out tons of scripture but, dont worry, its still perfect. Were the excluded scriptures in error but, we can trust that those which compile the bible today are not?

Since the Old and New Testiment fortells future events before they happen, I tend to believe something that is verifiably true.Example please.

loverofthewoods

07-15-2004, 02:25 AM

campbel- you mention teh evil one who would put a mark on teh hand of the followers...no one can buy or sell...its of my opinion that the evil one is rearing its head, this is somthing me and my fellow "conspiracy theorists" have been warning about for years. RFID chips are making their way into the public...in a few years electronic money will take over and no one can purchase or sell anything with out a chip...the mark of the beast if you will.

their introducing them slowly at the moment to give people time to accept it. first with cards...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3659355.stm

there is already a bus touring the country implanting those with the mark...soon this will be a manditory...
http://www.adsx.com/prodservpart/verichip.html

do a quick google on RFID chips and see what you find...your government / the illuminati is very serious about this.

http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/products_en001.htm
scary huh??

though you and i have our squabbles about teh specifics and christianity and whatnot...we're fighting on the same side. take care of yourself brother....we're in for quite a ride these last few years.

campbell34

07-16-2004, 11:39 PM

mother nature's son,

"Yea, and the bible wasn't written for 200 years after Jesus supposedly resurrected."

-No the Bible was completed about 100 A.D. and possible before.

"So this isn't about aliens then? If it is a 'man of sin' that will come?"

-The man of sin is the Antichrist. The Antichrist will have authority over the UFOs. UFOs are a big part of the end times and they will have a lot to do with what the Bible describes as the great deception(I just talked about this a couple of posts ago).

"Nobody is right if everybody is wrong...
And with religion, all of them are wrong according to each other."

"Religion was created as humans civilized- as we banded together and thus conquered the game of survival, to the point that we were able to sit around comfortably and ponder the concept of god. Each unique religion is simply the product of a unique culture. Religion happened throughout the world around, generally, the same time. Happened on every continent inhabitable by humans."

-There is one ancient belief that rises above the others. It is a belief that fortells the future before it happens. None of the other religion's text does this. That ancient belief can be found in the Old and New Testiments.

"Do you really believe that god is going to discriminate with his 'truth' and only give his word to one group of people while the rest are inherently in the dark, doomed to hell?"

-From the beginning God told man to spread his word the Bible to all people. That is why every culture on earth has recorded the story of the world wide flood. When the Spanish landed in South America they began to teach the Indians the story of Noah's flood. The Indians answered back-We know that story.

"So many religions exist because human spirituality can be accessed in a multitude of ways. Are the feelings of spirituality that non-Christian religions conjure actually counterfeit feelings?"

-When it comes to faith, feelings should have little to do with what you believe. Feelings are usually associated with blind faith. Blind faith is dangerous. Truth faith should be based on verifiable and inrefutable knowledge.

"Blatant contradictions- like that 'god so loved the world that he gave his only son' but only happened to tell a certain group of people in a certain area of land in a short period of time?
And on top of that, it is the doctrine you subscribe to and not the quality of your character that determines your eternal fate?"

-If it is your character that determines your eternal fate then Hitler and Stalin must be in heaven today because they felt that they were doing the right thing. And millions of people supported their efforts. Would you agree with that statement?

"Or that, yea, the modern bible has left out tons of scripture but, dont worry, its still perfect. Were the excluded scriptures in error but, we can trust that those which compile the bible today are not?"

-The modern Bible's are not perfect and there are people today who are trying to pervert them even more. But thankfully we have the Dead Sea scrolls that were untouched for 2000 years and are older Bibles have remained in tacked.

campbell34

07-16-2004, 11:48 PM

loverofthewoods,

"though you and i have our squabbles about teh specifics and christianity and whatnot...we're fighting on the same side. take care of yourself brother....we're in for quite a ride these last few years."

-If you are a born again Christian, we are on the same side. As far as the chip goes, Christians have know about this long before that technology existed. It is recorded in the Bible that at the time of the end followers of a very evil man will be required to have a mark in their right hand or forehead. It also says, that they will clone this man and if you have this mark you will be a worshipper of his clone. It also states that the clone will be located in a rebuilt Jewish temple that sits on Mount Mariah. The Jews are not in Israel by accident.

FreakyJoeMan

07-17-2004, 02:39 AM

Woooohoooo! Do I get to be an enemy of the born-againers??? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!

campbell34

08-02-2006, 05:47 AM

This could be a big reason why alien existence would be (is) covered up, them being regarded as 'demons' by religious nuts.
So if aliens do not support Christianity they are then thought to be 'demons'? Sillyness.

"[Aliens] appeal to human pride with salvation by works or reliance upon the divine within."

You point out the speck in your brother's eye, while you ignore the plank in your own:

"The UFO messages deny the authority of the Bible, deny Christ's sacrificial death for our salvation, and deny that Jesus is the only way to the Father."

Jesus is the only way? Talk about pride...

"On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand..." -Christian hymn.

"Contactees are left with an anti-Biblical view of the next life."

Aliens are much more intelligent than we are. Think about that in relation to the view of the next life that they are leaving us.
Actually aliens appear to support all world religions, except Christianity. Aliens are much more intelligent, they should be. They have been around since the beginning. And the reasons aliens are upset with Christ, is because they know who He is.

shaman sun

08-02-2006, 11:36 AM

Extra dimensional, extra terrestrial? Who knows? I find them a fascinating aspect of our culture, and what is often intriguing (also good for a spook) is the amount of involvement and seriousness our government has given to UFO's.

At any rate, considering that there is no "Hell" as some tangible ethereal magical place where all evil is born aside from the birth canal of the imagination, I'd say they're intelligent beings.

Freedom_Man

08-02-2006, 01:40 PM

if anyone is "aliens" for sure, we are, we are the most intelligent species on earth that we know of. so for now we are the aliens.

spook13

08-02-2006, 04:14 PM

JLPMGHRS

08-02-2006, 10:28 PM

i've heard this theory before but the fact is it doesn't square with a christian worldview and what scripture says. demons(fallen angels) found in scripture are spirits and are non-corporeal. As far as aliens, the Bible neither supports or refutes their existence. From a christian worldview, if there is indeed life on other planets, God created it and it is subject to him. There is however little substantial evidence for their existence, as far as i can see anyway.

Freedom_Man

08-03-2006, 01:04 PM

Alsharad

08-03-2006, 08:56 PM

I don't know about UFO's but I believe in zombies...

how else do you explain this thread coming back from the dead?!

:p

NaykidApe

08-03-2006, 10:21 PM

Thats what i hate about christians, if it goes against their bible, then its either of the devil(i.e. demons,satan exc.) or it is faith. Ignorance is stupid, believe in yourself and put no god before you, you are all you've got.

Ironically, the whole belief in demons/the devil is itself non-biblical.

Up unitil the Babylonian captivity (exile) the bible makes no mention of any supernatural force for evil. Everything that happens (good or evil) is attributed to either God or man.

This changed slightly in the books written after the captivity;

In II Samuel 24:1 (written before the captivity) it says "And again the anger of the Lord was kiindled against Isreal, and he incited David against them and said to him 'Go number Isreal and Judah'".*

But in I Chronicles 21:1, a post-exile version of the same story, it says "Then Satan stood up against Isreal and provoked David to number Isreal".

Point is, before the Captivity, and the Hebrews exposure to Zorastrianism with it's dualistic vision of the supernatural realm, there's no mention anywhere in the bible of any rival spiritual forces at work in the universe--no devil, no fallen angels, no demons--and certainly nothing like any ongoing spritual war between the forces of good and evil.

The only mention of Satan (book of Job) depicts him as a member of God's court (not a "fallen angel") who has to ask God's permissiion before he does anything concerning man.

*(note: at least one version, The New world Translation, rewords this to say "one incited David..." which would somewhat resolve the situation, but it still makes no mention of "Satan".)

spook13

08-03-2006, 11:32 PM

Actually aliens appear to support all world religions, except Christianity. Aliens are much more intelligent, they should be. They have been around since the beginning. And the reasons aliens are upset with Christ, is because they know who He is.Thoughts regarding UFO's and aliens:

With scientific knowledge-- astronomical and physical--of the universe being what it is, it stands to reason that beings capable of traversing interstellar space would fall into one of these categories:

-they are functioning on the plane of the subtle body, where the same physical laws that affect gross matter don't apply.

-if human beings or similar, in order to cooperate for the vast endeavor, economic and otherwise, that would be required to make this type of travel a reality, they would have to have reached a phase in their overall social development where such lower qualities as territorialism, hugely disproportionate personal greed and selfishness, racism, etc., had been almost universally transcended. These lower qualities are generally eradicated as the result of the development of spiritual insight.

In either case, yes, they would need to be much more intelligent than we are, or use a larger portion of their brains than we do.

None of these possibilities suggests creatures with evil, generally ungodly, and specifically anti-Christ intent...rather, they suggest the opposite.

JLPMGHRS

08-04-2006, 12:06 AM

Ironically, the whole belief in demons/the devil is itself non-biblical.

Up unitil the Babylonian captivity (exile) the bible makes no mention of any supernatural force for evil. Everything that happens (good or evil) is attributed to either God or man.

This changed slightly in the books written after the captivity;

In II Samuel 24:1 (written before the captivity) it says "And again the anger of the Lord was kiindled against Isreal, and he incited David against them and said to him 'Go number Isreal and Judah'".*

But in I Chronicles 21:1, a post-exile version of the same story, it says "Then Satan stood up against Isreal and provoked David to number Isreal".

Point is, before the Captivity, and the Hebrews exposure to Zorastrianism with it's dualistic vision of the supernatural realm, there's no mention anywhere in the bible of any rival spiritual forces at work in the universe--no devil, no fallen angels, no demons--and certainly nothing like any ongoing spritual war between the forces of good and evil.

The only mention of Satan (book of Job) depicts him as a member of God's court (not a "fallen angel") who has to ask God's permissiion before he does anything concerning man.

*(note: at least one version, The New world Translation, rewords this to say "one incited David..." which would somewhat resolve the situation, but it still makes no mention of "Satan".)How is it that the whole belief in demons/the devil is non-biblical when both are clearly found in the bible. even with the points you are making i don't understand how this makes them "unbiblical" You don't think that the serpent talked about in Genesis is Satan? what's your interperation of the prophecy in Genesis ch 3:14-15 in light of the rest of the bible? Also, where does Scripture attribute evil to God?

The two scriptures you brought up (samuel and chronicles) i don't think are a contradiction. they're complementary. As it's seen in the book of Job and Jud 9:23 and elsewhere, God can use Satan and evil spirits as well as men to accomplish what he wants and to pass judgement. So, he could have commissioned Satan to do this.

JesusDiedForU

08-04-2006, 02:19 AM

Wow this is an old school post... and a Christian... yes I said it an actual Christian ressurected it.... Thanks man!

BushyOldGrower

08-24-2006, 09:27 PM

As a child a man had telepathy with me. He told me that he was from another planet and that there were a million of his kind here. That they were here to help us.

I have seen UFO's in the 70's that were not hallucinations.

Perhaps there are more than one kind of alien but if they exist as I believe perhaps some of them are benevolent like angels.

Some believe that when Jesus resurrected himself and walked again that he left in what was called, "a cloud from heaven" and this flying thing had angels in it. As they rose Jesus said, "as you see me go so shall I return".

I take this to mean it is possible that the return of Christ might be the aliens coming to take over the corrupt war making gov'ts of this world as promised.

Perhaps this is real and easier to believe than supernatural shit. ;)

I guess you may think me crazy. I am serious though. BOG

campbell34

08-27-2006, 11:44 PM

Ironically, the whole belief in demons/the devil is itself non-biblical.

Up unitil the Babylonian captivity (exile) the bible makes no mention of any supernatural force for evil. Everything that happens (good or evil) is attributed to either God or man.

This changed slightly in the books written after the captivity;

In II Samuel 24:1 (written before the captivity) it says "And again the anger of the Lord was kiindled against Isreal, and he incited David against them and said to him 'Go number Isreal and Judah'".*

But in I Chronicles 21:1, a post-exile version of the same story, it says "Then Satan stood up against Isreal and provoked David to number Isreal".

Point is, before the Captivity, and the Hebrews exposure to Zorastrianism with it's dualistic vision of the supernatural realm, there's no mention anywhere in the bible of any rival spiritual forces at work in the universe--no devil, no fallen angels, no demons--and certainly nothing like any ongoing spritual war between the forces of good and evil.

The only mention of Satan (book of Job) depicts him as a member of God's court (not a "fallen angel") who has to ask God's permissiion before he does anything concerning man.

*(note: at least one version, The New world Translation, rewords this to say "one incited David..." which would somewhat resolve the situation, but it still makes no mention of "Satan".)
The Devil is non Biblical? You most of forgot the story of Adam and Eve in the garden. The story is found in the first Book of the Bible. It speaks of the Serpent tempting Eve in the Garden. The Serpent is the Devil.

Anima_Mercury

08-28-2006, 02:02 AM

The Serpent is the Devil.And what about the Serpent of Wisdom then?

Besides the story of Adam and Eve is an "allegory". In Western Christian art, the fruit is most commonly depicted as an apple. One possible reason for this arises from a medieval pun. It was a source of humor to monks that the Latin word for evil was similar to the word for apple. Thus it was often said that by eating the malus (apple), Eve contracted malum (evil).

The term "forbidden fruit" is a popular metaphor that describes any object of desire whose appeal is a direct result of the knowledge that it cannot or should not be obtained. The phrase comes from the Bible, where it is the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil eaten by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. As a result of eating this fruit, Adam and Eve lost their innocence, began to know good and evil, and were exiled from the garden where they were forced to adopt agriculture under less than desirable circumstances for a living. The concept of "knowing" good and evil can be best understood as being emotionally entangled with the struggle of determining the difference.

Popularly, the fruit has been identified as an apple (perhaps as a Latin pun of 'malus' sounding like 'evil' and 'apple'), although the Bible does not identify the fruit as an apple.

The term most generally refers to any indulgence or pleasure that is considered illegal or immoral and potentially dangerous or harmful, particularly relating to such things as human sexuality (underage, extramarital, or otherwise), recreational drug use, and underage alcoholic beverage consumption.

In some biblical interpretations, the 'apple' was a metaphor for sexuality, 'the first sin' and so forth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_fruit

♥ Love ♥

V

campbell34

08-29-2006, 11:35 AM

And what about the Serpent of Wisdom then?

Besides the story of Adam and Eve is an "allegory". In Western Christian art, the fruit is most commonly depicted as an apple. One possible reason for this arises from a medieval pun. It was a source of humor to monks that the Latin word for evil was similar to the word for apple. Thus it was often said that by eating the malus (apple), Eve contracted malum (evil).

The term "forbidden fruit" is a popular metaphor that describes any object of desire whose appeal is a direct result of the knowledge that it cannot or should not be obtained. The phrase comes from the Bible, where it is the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil eaten by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. As a result of eating this fruit, Adam and Eve lost their innocence, began to know good and evil, and were exiled from the garden where they were forced to adopt agriculture under less than desirable circumstances for a living. The concept of "knowing" good and evil can be best understood as being emotionally entangled with the struggle of determining the difference.

Popularly, the fruit has been identified as an apple (perhaps as a Latin pun of 'malus' sounding like 'evil' and 'apple'), although the Bible does not identify the fruit as an apple.

The term most generally refers to any indulgence or pleasure that is considered illegal or immoral and potentially dangerous or harmful, particularly relating to such things as human sexuality (underage, extramarital, or otherwise), recreational drug use, and underage alcoholic beverage consumption.

In some biblical interpretations, the 'apple' was a metaphor for sexuality, 'the first sin' and so forth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_fruit

♥ Love ♥

V
Saying that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory is another way of telling me you donot believe the Bible. The Bible does not waste words with endless allegories. The reason for this is, if it did, then people such as yourself could honestly say, we do not need to follow the Scriptures, because who is to say what is true and what is false. The fact is, when the Bible tells us that in the latter years the Jews will return to Israel and retake the land, and there country will be surrounded by enemies. This is clearly stated. And this prophecy is not allegory. The Bible is direct, and it is telling the world the truth. It is a truth the Bible tells us, the world will not want to hear. And that is why we have people who deny that Biblical truth, stating that its truth is just allegories. We are living in the last days. When Israel became a nation, this was the start of Gods stop watch. According to the Scriptures, the generation that was born in that year would not pass away, until all Bible prophcies would be fulfilled. Israel became a nation in the year 1948. According to the Scriptures, when Christ returns, there will still be people alive on earth who were born in the year 1948. This is not allegory, this is Biblical future prophecy that is now coming to pass. According to the Bible, many nations at the time of the end will rise up to try and destroy the state of Israel. God will use the Jews to reveal to the world who He is. The Islamic nations along with the Jews will be in for a big surprise when God shows His hand. Some of these prophecies found in the Old Testament. Ezekiel chapters 36, 37, 38 and 39. The Bible also gives a detail account, on what is going to happen here in America.

BeaverKoffi

08-30-2006, 01:29 AM

campblee- so you believein GOD and bibliological prohpecies ?

spook13

08-30-2006, 08:48 PM

Saying that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory is another way of telling me you donot believe the Bible. The Bible does not waste words with endless allegories. The reason for this is, if it did, then...Campbell, your base-line method of reasoning has always been: Because there are some passages in the Bible that can arguably be interpreted as prophecies of current world events, the whole Bible is 100% literally inerrant.

More briefly: Some arguably-accurate prophecies = 100% Biblical inerrancy.

This is both logically faulty and very personal and subjective reasoning.

IMO, it's why people here don't tend to take you seriously very often.

Just an observation, no Christian, Bible, or Campbell-bashing intended.

Anima_Mercury

08-30-2006, 09:07 PM

Saying that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory is another way of telling me you donot believe the Bible
Not necessarily ;) Allegory doesn't mean it's a lie... When reading the Bible you don't have to internalize it literally. All the facts in the Bible (IMO) are true but many things have been distorted, the Jew people weren't the chosen one and they took all the credits for many things that had happened in another culture (Sumerian) and made it their own and so forth...

The bible has been manipulated and distorted according to people's convenience.

Anyway, you haven't answered me about the Serpent of Wisdom...

♥ Love ♥

V

JLPMGHRS

08-30-2006, 09:51 PM

Not necessarily http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif Allegory doesn't mean it's a lie... When reading the Bible you don't have to internalize it literally.

We should read it how it is written, don't you agree?

All the facts in the Bible (IMO) are true but many things have been distorted, the Jew people weren't the chosen one and they took all the credits for many things that had happened in another culture (Sumerian) and made it their own and so forth...

The bible has been manipulated and distorted according to people's convenience.

I like to hear how you came to this conclusion.

Sera Michele

08-30-2006, 09:58 PM

JLPMGHRS

08-30-2006, 10:26 PM

Read it how it is written? Christians across the world can't even agree on an interpretation, everyone's is different, there are more denominations and variations within those dominations than one can count. What makes your's or campbell's the valid one??my opinion is no better than anyone else when trying to determine what Scripture says. Scripture itself is the truth, the standard. And yes, there are disagreements among Christians on certain issues, but there are also main and plain things that aren't up for different interpretations.

An example would be allegorizing the story of Adam and Eve to where it does not mean that man was tempted by Satan and fell into a life of constant sin.
If you do this, get rid of the rest of the Bible. There is no need for salvation.

I'm just saying that a lot of the times we read meanings into passages that just make no sense and pay no attention to the context in which it is written. It seems to be done to the Bible in way that we don't use with other literature. I guess the bottom line is to read the Bible for all it's worth.

Not to mention this whole subject matter is rediculous. Are we supposed to accept a biblical interpretation from someone talking about UFO's and the aliens aboard them being demons from hell that hate christinity in paticular?no, i don't agree with the idea of aliens being demons as i mentioned in an earlier post. I think it's totally wrong, though I see how Christians are for falling for this the way it is being popularized by Christian leaders that people trust. But when you step back and look at it in light of Scripture, it's just incorrect.