Can Islam coexist with Peace?

[El_Qwerty]

I'm not sure that it can.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2889/realislam0dt.jpg

[ryupower]

That was not nice...

Eventhough it is opposing to parts of the Koran, there are VERY nice and gentle Muslims out there...( if they can label themselves Islamic...but still).


lol, did you know that in a Harem it's often the WOMEN controling the man?
I heard of some that just boss their Husband around, and if he refuses to let himself get controlled, - watch out guys! XD

[Iconoclast]

The majority of Muslims, by far, are folks who simply want to be left alone, raise their families, have a little pleasure when possible, have decent work, and basically just live. All they need to do is kick their religious leaders to the back seat like the West did and decency, common sense, and self-interest will take care of the rest. Keep the mullahs in power, problems will persist and probably worsen. It's all about choice.

[stoney69]

you see, what you do not realise is, in islam ..we got no leaders, unlike the pope!

[jonny2mad]

look at whats happening in france no islam cannot exist at peace with other people.

The problem is that the rest of the world doesnt realise how evil islam is yet , pretty stupid of the rest of the world I suppose .

mohammed played the same game at the start of islam and the people who thought he wanted peace ended up dead or slaves

[Iconoclast]

you see, what you do not realise is, in islam ..we got no leaders, unlike the pope!If you're going to make shit up, then make up shit better than this.

[cabdirazzaq]

Well acually there is no hierarchy and no priests or church system,thus you can't do something equivelant to seperating church and state since there is no church.

To answer the question; yes Islam can co exist with others in peace and its history is enough to prove that.

[jonny2mad]

read the

The Myth of Islamic Tolerance: How Islamic Law Treats Non-Muslims
Robert Spencer (Editor), Andrew G. Bostom (Editor)

Sword of the Prophet
Serge Trifkovic, Srdja Trifkovic

Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide
Bat Ye'or

The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude by
Bar Ye'or,

There are a number of other books as well but thats a good start , look at the apartied secondclass status of non muslims , look at the commands to fight to spread the religion .

jihad is about killing people who stand in the way of the spread of islam and we can see this being carried out around the world today

[stoney69]

look at whats happening in france no islam cannot exist at peace with other people.

The problem is that the rest of the world doesnt realise how evil islam is yet , pretty stupid of the rest of the world I suppose .

mohammed played the same game at the start of islam and the people who thought he wanted peace ended up dead or slaves
is there a line we can draw on ignorance ?! possibly not, good luck anyway

..we, the evil ones can co-exist with the ignorants too

[jonny2mad]

well could you show me where in the Quran Jihad is described as an inner struggle.

Why are the blind ill weak and women exempt? why do you need weapons and have to prepare? Why did the Prophet say after conquering Mecca No migration Now only jihad?

doesnt sound very peaceful

[cabdirazzaq]

For one thing, the prophet(peace be upon him) said that the inner jihad is the greatest of jihad thus showing that jihad-nafs does exist. I am not denying the physical jihad at all but I am defending it!


Do you as a (perhaps) daunted -due to the worries that circumblate the world today- westerner feel any aversion towards a war against terrorism and/or injustice of the highest degree to stabilize these "worries"? I think most people would approve of a war with such a purpose, depending on the means ofcourse. I would claim that islam not only did this but that the means it used were great aswell.

It (jihad) was established to spread good and the means were good aswell, its narrated that the prophet said(peace and blessing of Allah be upon);

“Go out in the name of Allaah and by the help of Allaah, following the way of the Messenger of Allaah. Do not kill any old man, infant, child or woman… spread goodness and do good, for Allaah loves those who do good.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2614)

And it says in the Quran (interpretation of the meaning):

"And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help.''(4.75)

Did you know, johnny, that many people from the inhabitants of Rome(christians) used to send letters to the caliph and close companion Umar to fight the oppression of the Romans? The people of Damascus, Jerusalem etc benefitied from getting rid of the Romans, why?
The romans forced them to many of their ideas which the muslims did not, (with the muslim goverment) they kept their lives, religion, churches and they were promised to be backed up by the muslim army in return of paying the jizah.

As I said before, the means they used were excellent(compared to what some people claim is jihad these days, alot of it being basicly a disgusting form of terrorism!). The first caliph and closest companion Abu Bakr told his soldiers whom he sent to the Syrian border:

" Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman. nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"

Can islam co exist with peace and can muslims co exist with non muslims?
Il quote one verses and that should be enough:

"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity"

[stoney69]

touché cabdirazzaq !

[TrippinBTM]

Did you know, johnny, that many people from the inhabitants of Rome(christians) used to send letters to the caliph and close companion Umar to fight the oppression of the Romans? The people of Damascus, Jerusalem etc benefitied from getting rid of the Romans, why?
The romans forced them to many of their ideas which the muslims did not, (with the muslim goverment) they kept their lives, religion, churches and they were promised to be backed up by the muslim army in return of paying the jizah.
That can't be right, because the Romans were long gone well before Mohammed was even born. There was no caliph back then.

[cabdirazzaq]

The Roman empire became split, it wasnt gone. I was speaking about the byzantines who were under the leadership of Heraclius.

[jonny2mad]

Im sorry its taken me so long to respond to this but been very busy

anyway

its good cab that you admit that islam encourages war to spread the religion, there are special blessings for killing people and fighting jihad. .

thats why we see people around the world wherever they accept islam killing and oppressing non muslims, they are following the example of mohammed and what they are taught in the religion .

not all muslims do this all the time but some do apply the teachings of the koran and haddith .

luckly most muslims like most christians dont follow what the religion teaches

as mohammed cult became stronger it became more violent, much like charles manson.

when he was on his own manson wasnt that dangerous he was a cowardly short street punk , but when he convinced people he was a prophet he had his followers go out in a gang and kill people .

if you imagine a situation where manson wasnt arrested early enough, he could have become a guy on the same scale as mohammed

you can see how mohammeds revelations become more violent as he got more followers if you look at when suras were revealed .

so you have the suras that muslims like to qoute like to you your religion to me mine when he was in mecca .

but because they fail to tell you that this is abrogated by later suras the ones from medina where he had a army that tell them to fight and kill non believers you may get the wrong impression and think that islam is a tolerant religion .

this article will explain whats going on

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/abulkazem/face_of_islam.htm/url]


“Go out in the name of Allaah and by the help of Allaah, following the way of the Messenger of Allaah. Do not kill any old man, infant, child or woman… spread goodness and do good, for Allaah loves those who do good.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2614)

if you kill the old man and the women and the children there is no one to make into a slave cab and no one for the muslim to rape.

so that statement isn’t that impressive, also I can think of instances where muslims did kill women and children including pregnant women and this was at the time of mohammed

jihad was established so that muslims could justify their crimes if you are a thief and a rapist having the excuse that god tells you to do it I suppose eases the conscience.

if you had something like fight oppression and dont make the people you capture into slaves, and dont rape female captives that would have been a more impressive commandment .

today we have armys that dont make people into slaves and that dont rape women captives, so it was possible to do in those days, but strangely what claims to be the army of god didnt do that

early muslims were not persecuted to any great extent the early Christian church had a much worse time generally, the people who did the persecution were muslims
most of Mohammed’s battles were offensive .

in fact islam has taken advantage of people who were tolerant towards them a process we can see happening around the world today

[url]http://www.historyofjihad.org/

[jonny2mad]

“Go out in the name of Allaah and by the help of Allaah, following the way of the Messenger of Allaah. Do not kill any old man, infant, child or woman… spread goodness and do good, for Allaah loves those who do good.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2614)

if you kill the old man and the women and the children there is no one to make into a slave cab and no one for the muslim to rape.

so that statement isn’t that impressive, also I can think of instances where muslims did kill women and children including pregnant women and this was at the time of mohammed

jihad was established so that muslims could justify their crimes if you are a thief and a rapist having the excuse that god tells you to do it I suppose eases the conscience.

if you had something like fight oppression and dont make the people you capture into slaves, and dont rape female captives that would have been a more impressive commandment .

today we have armys that dont make people into slaves and that dont rape women captives, so it was possible to do in those days, but strangely what claims to be the army of god didnt do that

early muslims were not persecuted to any great extent the early Christian church had a much worse time generally, the people who did the persecution were muslims
most of Mohammed’s battles were offensive .

in fact islam has taken advantage of people who were tolerant towards them a process we can see happening around the world today

http://www.historyofjihad.org/

[Erasmus70]

There are some major differences between typical Islam and typical Christianity (or anyone else really).
Christianity, for example, is 'Evangelical' but has zero interest in governments or lands and if people are not interested - you leave them be.
Buddhism doesnt care about governments or establishing any dominion over anything.
Hindus - same deal.

Islam is different - its not only a religion but its a system which is to be for government and (according to Islam) SHOULD take over the world.
The goal IS to have the world and all who are in it submit to Islam.
Do you understand Im not 'accusing muslims' of something here - Im telling you that IS what the Koran is about.
Whenever possible - all nations are to be converted.
Nations.. not just 'people in them' but the Nations themselves.

Now your going to tell me that Islam does not and cannot 'force' anyone to believe or not.
Of course thats true.
However, Islam is to give you the chance to convert and if you do not - then you must do two things:
-Do NOT oppose Islam or evanglise for your beliefs.
-Pay extra taxes to support Islam.

Just because they CANT do this yet doesnt mean they do not 'ultimately' intend this to be the final endgame.
As for violence - that is the last resort.
Thats true - but the fact its a 'resort' option makes Islam totally different than just about any other World Religion out there.

[jonny2mad]

very true erasmus ,you can see this process in countrys being turned into theocracys, like iran and the constant battle every country that has a large number of muslims to stop it them becoming theocracys .

and how muslims kill or scare people from pointing out what a low life mohammed was and what a nasty religion islam is .
this process is world wide even in countrys with small numbers of muslims

by whatever means necessary as malcolm x said, so if they can use money they will use money to buy media outlets, or they will use politics , or violence .

another thing is the way muslims will play the media, they do a attack and have some talking head say how it has nothing to do with islam , its quite funny really how people buy this lie .

hitler did the same thing he would have his boot boys attack some jews ,and then say it wasnt the nazis , or just blame his attacks on the jews on the jews themselves .

[The Sad Knight]

Jonny, www.faithfreedom.org (http://www.faithfreedom.org) is a great site!!!
10x :)

[jonny2mad]

yes faithfreedom.org is a great site Ive been posting on there for years .

ali sina the iranian apostate behind the site puts a wonderful case against Islam being true, or mohammed being a prophet, he also understands how dangerous islam is .

its a pity he doesnt have the sort of money that used to promote islam , its a unfair fight , what I would ask is why people like ali sina are never allowed to give their view of islam on mainstream media .

every attack the same people saying its nothing to do with islam and that islam means peace blah blah blah......nobody saying that mohammed commited mass murder or that murder and terror are part of the religion and have been from the founding of the religion .

The people who say that all the terrorism and war comes from offensive jihad and the actions of mohammed are right, and unless you say that that is the case your going to get nowhere .

I went to a Library today and all the books on islam were pro the religion , there are lots of books written but for some reason I never see ones that could show the negitive side of the religion .

a good one to start which Ive just read is the politically incorrect guide to islam by robert spencer hes a chistian but I really liked it .
ali sina should be writing some books on islam and I would imagine they will be wonderful .

[The Sad Knight]

Jonny, I am already registered with the nick Bulgarian :)

[dawn_sky]

Wow. All of you ignorant, racist, uneducated people depress me. Can't burn crosses on black people's yards anymore, can't throw Jews in concentration camps, so you'll just turn your hatred against Muslims?

Sad.

look at whats happening in france no islam cannot exist at peace with other people. You have absolutely no understanding of sociology, do you? Economic factors had a hell of a lot more to do with that than the religion of Islam. Where religion did factor in, it was the racism against Muslims that is to blame -- after years of prejudice, which compounded the economic issues (can't get a better job), they finally rose up. Are black people unable to coexist in peace with other races? I mean, look all those bloody revolutions they started (you know, uprising against slavemasters and freedom-fighters against colonial powers), and hell, the LA riots were only, what, a decade ago... Then again, I suppose hispanics are incapable of living in peace too, I mean, just look at all the turmoil that always seems to be happening in Central America..

OH WAIT, white Christians must also be incapable of coexisting in peace with anyone else -- hell, they go blow up women & doctors at abortion clinics, beat gays to death, persecute anyone who is not Christian... And how many thousands (millions?) of people did they kill in thier silly little crusades?

Y'all are spouting the most disgusting racist crap, sounding a little to the right of Hitler, yet you deign to call yourselves hippies? WTF????

[jonny2mad]

dawn sky most of the people who think like me are arabs or north africans or pakistanis iranians somali are they all racists ?

and who are they racist against .

my family is multi-racial half white, half chinese but Im always called a racist by people like your self , because they are unable to disprove what I say about islam because what I say is true.

france has gone out of its way as has the rest of europe to welcome muslims, but they respond by riots and murder and suicide bombing .

you dont see the same level of violence from say the chinese they are a different race to europeans, but I havnt seen any chinese blowing themselves and hundreds of other people up because of racial discrimination .

I havnt seen a jihad of buddhists or hindus there is violence from other religions but nothing compared to islam .

if Im uneducated maybe you can disprove what I say or you could try to disprove what ali sina says about islam which is pretty much the same as me , hes iranian but he a racist according to you .

why dont you tell him hes a racist.

I know ayaan hirshi ali, the somali women who helped make the film submission with the late murdered theo van gogh ,has been called a racist lots of times , why dont you write her a letter telling her that she burns crosses in black peoples yards even tho she is a black person .

[jonny2mad]

I have never said that islam is the only cause of wars in the world .

so bringing up other causes and trying to say that just because some other cause or group of people start wars too ,means that islam doesnt wont wash

the original question was could islam co-exist with peace , I dont think it is a religion that encourages peace as it has the concept of war to spread the religion and the aim of the religion is religous govement .

apart from the war and oppression directed against non muslims there is the oppression directed at sects in islam more muslims are killed by other muslims than by anyone else .

so even if everybody claimed to be muslim there would be war until one branch came out on top

[Disarmed]

Check out Yusuf Islams (Cat Stevens) website.

[jonny2mad]

I remember yusef islam aka cat stevens calling for the death of salman rushdie,

he said that under islamic law rushdie should die and if he knew where he was he would tell people who would do him harm.

he was one of the main people who incited the rushdie affair .

and I remember him making threats on tv to people who wanted to make a film of the book satanic verses, so he is someone to look at if you wish to learn the effect of becoming a muslim .

hes a too bit gangster who pretends to be a man of peace, I think he should be in jail for incitement to murder but he was never charged , in fact no one was charged during the rushdie affair for anything as far as I know although hundreds were arrested , bookshops bombed people killed and rushdie has spent more than twenty years in hiding

he wont talk about his actions or his beliefs its against his forum rules, he has been asked to discuss islam by ali sina but hes happy to pump out the usual flim flam without being asked awkward questions .

since then he has had links to terrorist groups I believe he gave money to people involved in suicide bombing thats why he isnt allowed to visit isreal .

what he says about the rushdie affair paints him in a good light and because he wont allow his view to be challenged, people do not get a view of what he did or what he believes now .

he says now that he doesnt call for rushdies death because he at present lives in a non islamic state britain , but all his life he has worked to turn the uk and the rest of the world into a islamic state .

so he wants rushdie dead, but like say himmler or hitler in the 1920s he is not at present able to have killed the people he would like to have killed , but the fascism is there the intent is there .

if he wasnt a fascist he would have supported rushdies right to write a book with out fear of being killed .

if he had changed his views from the time of the rushdie affair he would say that under no circumstances should rushdie be killed or killed in any other future state .

thats not what hes saying

[stlkr_94]

can somebody tell me what's goin on here, and what do you think ?..

[Erasmus70]

Ive had a similar conversation with Ex-Yugoslavians about this whole situation.
You can look at it this way:
- You can find people who are trying to take over and dominate lands who do so 'in the name of 'Christianity' or God.
- You can find people doing the same in the name of Allah and Muhammed.
HOWEVER
The difference being that the Serbian paramilitary warlord is doing this IN SPITE of the Scriptures he is not following anyways.
Seriously, if you really could pin them down on this - they have no choice but to admit that its not 'Biblical' regardless of what they do.
THIS IS NOT THE CASE ...
.With the Jihadists. They are actually doing this BECAUSE they find it in their Scriptures and they really ARE following their religions teachings and if you could pin them down on it - they WILL show you a very very convincing argument FROM the Koran and Hadith.

Now.. Im telling you I am friends and aquaintences with with Muslims who are definately not happy about the Jihadists.
They are what you might call 'Secular Muslims' or maybe 'liberal, progressive type' Muslims.
Thats a whole another story in there too but I can tell you that I spent so much time being familiar with them and being with them that on occasion they forget Im a Christian.
During the attacks on the UK subways I never forget one turning to me and with the excitement of a fan seeing his team score goals says:
"Oh man.. did you hear today we got 'them' like TWICE hehehehe!!" and then suddenly realising in mid-gloat that I was the wrong person to be high-fiving.

If I thought for a second this was just an isolated case or some wacko type thing I promise I would not tell this 'as if' he represented modern secular Islam.
The problem is that this sort of thing is more and more appearing to be a very common thing.
Definately not the majority of moderate Muslims (but it IS for traditional ones) but I see and hear this sorta thing wayyyyy to often.

btw.. I cant help but notice how the Muslims really have a deep-seeded mentality of 'punishment' and 'reward'.
Its different than our more western christianity-based way of thinking in terms of fall and redemption.
Im not even talking about doctrines here - I just mean that comparison in terms of cultural 'thinking' or 'mentality'.

[jonny2mad]

we have a couple of problems the main one being the one that dawn sky brought up, she thinks pretty much the way the TV tells her and is so narrow minded that she wont look at the facts or do her own research .

jihad war and violence and terrorism is in Islamic scripture as a commandment , non Muslims are looked on as second-class citizens in the classic Islamic state they are dhimmi who live in a sort of apartied .

Everything is done to encourage them to stop having different beliefs and become Muslims.

you have as of today top Islamic leaders saying that non Muslims are ritually unclean that you need to have a ritual bath if lets say you sit on a chair a non Muslim has sat on if you go on grand ayatollah sistani website he says that today he’s the top man in shia Islam.

In France they have been unable to get Muslims children to take swimming lessons for example because they don’t want to swim in unclean water that non Muslim French people have swam in or that girls have swam in .

They have been unable to teach the holocaust or enlightenment philosophy because the children riot or attack the teachers.

Where did those children get those ideas from and are they the sort of ideas you want if you want peace and peace on whose terms.

The riots targeted churches, and synagogues, and non Muslim cars and businesses with the idea of striking terror in the heart of non Muslims and driving them out of their own land.

If it was just that these people are oppressed why did they called imams to make pleas for the riots to stop why did the rioters shout Allah Akbar and attack sectarian targets.

And if you look around Europe and the rest of the world you will see the same process these riots are not happening by accident, its all part of a plan

[campbell34]

we have a couple of problems the main one being the one that dawn sky brought up, she thinks pretty much the way the TV tells her and is so narrow minded that she wont look at the facts or do her own research .

jihad war and violence and terrorism is in Islamic scripture as a commandment , non Muslims are looked on as second-class citizens in the classic Islamic state they are dhimmi who live in a sort of apartied .

Everything is done to encourage them to stop having different beliefs and become Muslims.

you have as of today top Islamic leaders saying that non Muslims are ritually unclean that you need to have a ritual bath if lets say you sit on a chair a non Muslim has sat on if you go on grand ayatollah sistani website he says that today he’s the top man in shia Islam.

In France they have been unable to get Muslims children to take swimming lessons for example because they don’t want to swim in unclean water that non Muslim French people have swam in or that girls have swam in .

They have been unable to teach the holocaust or enlightenment philosophy because the children riot or attack the teachers.

Where did those children get those ideas from and are they the sort of ideas you want if you want peace and peace on whose terms.

The riots targeted churches, and synagogues, and non Muslim cars and businesses with the idea of striking terror in the heart of non Muslims and driving them out of their own land.

If it was just that these people are oppressed why did they called imams to make pleas for the riots to stop why did the rioters shout Allah Akbar and attack sectarian targets.

And if you look around Europe and the rest of the world you will see the same process these riots are not happening by accident, its all part of a plan
There actually is a plan in the works. Yet you will have to read the Bible to discover it. God is allowing the Jews back into Israel to get the Islamic nations to attack them. He is doing this, to reveal to the world who He is. It may sound far out, but the whole story in in Ezekiel chapters 36, 37, 38, and 39. These chapters are prophecies. And if you read them, you will discover these events will happen in the latter years. Also, the Bible states that God is doing this for His Holy name, and not the Jews. God states that the Jews polluted His name where ever they wandered. After God defends the Jews from what appears to be these invading Islamic nations, the Jews will see who God is, and the Old Testament states they will look upon Him who they pireced, and they will ask Him where He received the wounds in His hands.
The latter part of the prophecy will be found in Zec. chapter 12.

[Erasmus70]

This seems like the time to mention something (following post by an agnostic and a Theist heh).

I think I understand one of the basic underlying thinkings/feelings going on with the whole entire Jihad idea.
These French and Europe riots which are being exposed as, at the very least a 'loosely strategic' effort.
This also fits into the post by Campbell as far as theistic revelations etc...

Running deep and wide throughout the Muslim World and 'Worldview' is an 'insecurity' or a 'confidence issue'.
An 'Inferiority complex' as psychologists might call it.
There are already 'compensating' attitudes seen in the children who will not swim in 'unclean' waters and I know this has even gone past 'Ritually Unclean' to a very certain belief among Arabs that they are 'cleaner' people.
Anyways...
It seem increasingly certain to me that (generally) there is a thinking that, ultimately, to prove who is the One True God and to finally put to rest all doubt about Allah and his Messenger they WANT to test your theory Campbell.
If you get past all the political reasonings, accusations, talk of Hadith or non-stop positioning of their victim status or how they are being 'forced' to do these things by oppression.
Forget all of that... the real deep down 'thinking' is that this will prove out Allah is real and they have been right all along and finally all the world will see the One True Allah, proven for once and for all.

Now wait.. I know there people like Dawn Sky who are going to reply to the 'contrary' just because she thinks 'Something mean is being said about brown people .. so thats BaAad right'.

No, you have to understand that (generally) the entire 'concept' of how the Muslim and esp the Muslim Arab see this is DIFFERENT than how say a typical Christians, Buddhist, Hindu etc would see the world.
Islam is different in that it does indeed tie together both a spiritual and political and socio-economic mandate all in one.
So starting world war three with Israel does make sense as the ultimate 'apologetic' and proof of their Allah.

Havin said all that - I am honestly concerned about a certain segment of Christians out there who are displaying the same sort of thinking but in a sort of 'over confidence' way in which they almost 'hope' the Muslim world will try this and fail as we believe they will.
Now lets stick to the principles here. Just because we know an outcome might arrive after all - we are always obligated to constantly persue peace.
It might be true that we have foreknowledge that others will reject it but thats not our business.
Our business is to carry on as long as possible as best as possible and NEVER do we try and 'self fulfill' or 'speed up' anything unfortunate!

Anyways.. I would like to hear Johnny2mads commentary on this underlying mentality of Jihad which ultimately 'wants' to instigate an armeggedon for the very purpose of 'finally proving Allah'.
I think this IS the real heart of the matter?

[Disarmed]

I remember yusef islam aka cat stevens calling for the death of salman rushdie,

he said that under islamic law rushdie should die and if he knew where he was he would tell people who would do him harm.

he was one of the main people who incited the rushdie affair .

and I remember him making threats on tv to people who wanted to make a film of the book satanic verses, so he is someone to look at if you wish to learn the effect of becoming a muslim .

hes a too bit gangster who pretends to be a man of peace, I think he should be in jail for incitement to murder but he was never charged , in fact no one was charged during the rushdie affair for anything as far as I know although hundreds were arrested , bookshops bombed people killed and rushdie has spent more than twenty years in hiding

he wont talk about his actions or his beliefs its against his forum rules, he has been asked to discuss islam by ali sina but hes happy to pump out the usual flim flam without being asked awkward questions .

since then he has had links to terrorist groups I believe he gave money to people involved in suicide bombing thats why he isnt allowed to visit isreal .

what he says about the rushdie affair paints him in a good light and because he wont allow his view to be challenged, people do not get a view of what he did or what he believes now .

he says now that he doesnt call for rushdies death because he at present lives in a non islamic state britain , but all his life he has worked to turn the uk and the rest of the world into a islamic state .

so he wants rushdie dead, but like say himmler or hitler in the 1920s he is not at present able to have killed the people he would like to have killed , but the fascism is there the intent is there .

if he wasnt a fascist he would have supported rushdies right to write a book with out fear of being killed .

if he had changed his views from the time of the rushdie affair he would say that under no circumstances should rushdie be killed or killed in any other future state .

thats not what hes saying
Didn't know that. Thanks for the info. ; )