it's time..?

[Razorofoccam]

A whole swath of human religions need to be sent
where valhalla and mount olympus went.

They 'went' because people stopped believing in them..

If this is the criteria for religion. Then occam has to laugh.
thus all human religion would become MYTH
overnight if people stopped saying they were truth.

What is truth?
That which applies to all.
Religion ALREADY does not apply to all as truth.

Religion is a damn poor story.
Occam could create a religious mythos in 30 minutes..
How true it would be by human standards is a function of how many people believe it..
And no more.[and occams 'religion' would have FEW contradictions]
How many people believe a thing has NO relevance to its factuality.
The 'flat earth' is an example of this. [as is the earth as the center of the universe. look up the trial of Galileo]


Occam

[weaselpop]

There'll always be religion, but it's dying. In more and more countries it's become alright to think 'hang on, there is no god!', or 'there is, just not that one'. More and more people are bringing up their children to be able to make their own descision, even if the parents are religious, and a hell of a lot of those kids are taking the non-religious path.

[Vae Victus]

There'll always be religion, but it's dying. In more and more countries it's become alright to think 'hang on, there is no god!', or 'there is, just not that one'. More and more people are bringing up their children to be able to make their own descision, even if the parents are religious, and a hell of a lot of those kids are taking the non-religious path.
I'm sorry, but I try to practice skepticism even more so when I hear something I like to hear. Could you please describe the reason you have for believing this? Are there any statistics involved or anything, or is it just sort of your impression of things in general?

[Razorofoccam]

I'm sorry, but I try to practice skepticism even more so when I hear something I like to hear. Could you please describe the reason you have for believing this? Are there any statistics involved or anything, or is it just sort of your impression of things in general?Victus

It comes with general knowledge
Once you get enough of it.
You realise that A MINORITY truely believe in the god of any religion.
As oppossed to a majority, say 500 years back.

The number of humans who say a religious god created us.. and the world.
AS IS
Is in a guestimate.
maybe 25% of humanity.
it used to be 75%

No?

Occam

And before human language.. it was 0%

Occam agrees with weaslepop

[nephthys]

The BBC recently did a survey on such matters. As with all surveys it has its difficulties but it is the most recent one by an important network that I know of. I quickly did a web search and by clicking on "Open" in poll results in the following page you can see their statistics:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3518375.stm

Occam,
Always keep in mind the concept of a silent majority. Often our impression of reality is from those who speak the most actively on a matter. Also those around us can often be a very bad sample to make a generalization from. They do not specifically address your question but most people who believe in god do believe that it created us. The belief in an existence of a superior force that is not responsible for creation is something that is mostly embraced by people with a greater intellectual interest in such matters (most people in this forum would probably classify as such even just because they participate in discussion about religion). While these are the people who talk the most, they are not indicative of the majority.

Also it is always important to keep in mind that not all religions require a god.

"In more and more countries it's become alright to think 'hang on, there is no god!', or 'there is, just not that one'. More and more people are bringing up their children to be able to make their own descision, even if the parents are religious, and a hell of a lot of those kids are taking the non-religious path."

You call that the death of religion; I call it the birth.

[Razorofoccam]

Occam,
Always keep in mind the concept of a silent majority. Often our impression of reality is from those who speak the most actively on a matter. Also those around us can often be a very bad sample to make a generalization from. They do not specifically address your question but most people who believe in god do believe that it created us. The belief in an existence of a superior force that is not responsible for creation is something that is mostly embraced by people with a greater intellectual interest in such matters (most people in this forum would probably classify as such even just because they participate in discussion about religion). While these are the people who talk the most, they are not indicative of the majority.

nephthys

[occams opinion]

Accepted that occam may be far off the mark.
In general. The proportion of secular humans [defined as having no religion]
within humanity grows.
Over the last few centuries this growth has been huge.
Occam believes that at least 90% of all humans believe in a god to some sort.
But today. only half of that 90% are religious.

Occam is guestimating here
Does this sound reasonable?

Occam


PS
from weaselpop
"More and more people are bringing up their children to be able to make their own descision"

Casting aside the shackles of prejudice.

[Vae Victus]

I just found this, and thought it would be helpful:

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Specifically:

http://www.gem-werc.org/mmrc/mmrc9805.htm

Of course, it should be noted that religions' primary weapon is fear, and many non-religious types may have been silenced yet still existent. But yes, I too am forced to come to the conclusion that having an open-mind is becoming more acceptable.

[FreakyJoeMan]

It's my belief that religion nowadays is spread via ad nauseum, and people are just getting sick of hearing somethin that they've heard a trillion times before.

[meishka]

there are some lessons to be learned from religon. but wen i think of religon i think of the mainsteam chistians and catholics. most wars are out of religon. if we could get rid of or embrace all religons the world would be happier.

[Razorofoccam]

What if teaching fear in a religion was viewed as wrong? What if God was upset with the way religious organizations have been conducting themselves? I mean just look at the history, When the catholic church was in charge of things, well that period of time was called the Dark Ages! Religion was used as population control. It was actually learning the history of the catholic church that turned me away froim God in the first place! I refused to follow something that has its past in starting wars over something ridiculus as arguing over whether Jesus was a man or was God, keep in mind that they all believed Jesus was at least the son of God! I was atheist/angnostic for nearly 10 years! But I don't know something happened to me, thats kinda unexplainable and quite grand. Lets just say that God is a little angry with religion, evil has infiltrated and has made a definate presence.
Midnight

What a load of dead memories to cart about...
To be a catholic.

Occam shivers at the prospect of such a formal upbringing.
Such a pervasive conditioning.
He applauds your break from the dogmatic web of myth.

The evil you mention is the evil of human ego. That grabs at power.
In politics/religion and general life.
Many are driven to dominate. To control
And they will do anything to do it.

That is evil. There is no evil as a thing, No devil or hellish spawn.
There is just human desire coupled with the lust to dominate.

That, results in every evil thing you can imagine.

The devil will always be a poor second to human imagination.

Occam

[nephthys]

"Occam believes that at least 90% of all humans believe in a god to some sort.
But today. only half of that 90% are religious."

I don't think you can really geusstimate such matters because of the great number of cultural differences. Estimations are best left to surveys and even those are often quite suspect. I think 90% may be too high; in China alone there are so many people and most of them are atheists. Also keep in mind that a significant portion of the Buddhist population of the world is also atheist as the religion doesn't need a god.

[Razorofoccam]

Oh, I only wish that was the truth, and I would believe such a thing if I hadn't felt the gasp of a demon myself! No imagination, no hallucination, I truely wish I could chalk up those experiences to that, but I can't!
Midnight

And this is the core of the problem of evidence..

Occam has never felt 'the grasp of a demon'
He has had MANY thoughts which by his code are evil.
And has done evil acts...

ALL he can trace back to ignorance and desire..
Foolishness and pride.

While you have subjectively felt the grasp of of a demon.
How can you 'show' such a thing to occam?

You cannot...this is how reality works...
Thus occam cannot accept HELL/demons and other such stuff as real because NO-one can 'show' occam a speck of existent evidence for such.

This does not mean that 'evil incarnate' does not exist.
Just that ratonal method cannot see it.
And can explain 'evil' to be a human thing of human desire or pure logic.
Without apparent contradictions.

If you can show occam a demon.. He would accept it as rational fact.
And would adjust his understanding to accept that fact.

Occam