My Issue: The Supernatural [Archive]

Libertine

10-25-2005, 11:17 PM

I have tried to theorize it. I have tried to experience it. I have tried to believe it. Once I accepted who I am and what I really think, I know that I wholeheartedly reject the supernatural. I just CANNOT find any evidence of it that convinces me whatsoever. And believe me, I've tried.

As an illusionist and mentalist, I have both practiced trickery and exposed it. I cannot just accept that "unexplained" equals "supernatural" due to the many, many, many times that such past mysteries that have now been explained have been explained naturally and never proved the existence of the supernatural.

I cannot make the leap of "faith" to believe in the supernatural. I'll be honest, there is nothing I'd love more than to find out that reincarnation or ghosts actually exist, but I've seen no evidence that I could not dismiss--that I had NO alternative but to believe it because the reason or evidence to believe was more powerful than the evidence against it. And I've seen some pretty powerful stuff before...just not quite convincing. Not exactly the "ah ha!" ...

So, I sit here and realize that as much as I love debating Christians (because I wouldn't even want Christianity to be true anyhow, because I would hope that if God existed, he or she wouldn't be that big of an asshole), I have to accept that I don't frown on other beliefs such as Hinduism or Buddhism as much as I do the Monotheistic Barbarianism of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

But, I just can't accept such theories of even those Eastern religions due to my lack of connection with any belief in the supernatural.

IronGoth

10-25-2005, 11:22 PM

Go to Ottawa, Canada. Spend a night in the youth hostel downtown.

Tell them you want to spend the night in the haunted section. Noone has ever spent a full night there.

The Youth Hostel is the old jail. The haunted section is the death row/execution area, which is disturbedly haunted. NOBODY has ever spent the full night there.

Our camera crew from Concordia tried to record what was going on. We saw it, but the film didn't.

Libertine

10-25-2005, 11:28 PM

I'll love to attempt to do that. I would have a few conditions to be met, however. First, as a practitioner of trickery myself, I would have to secure a few loose ends to make sure that what I was experiencing was not--in any form--trickery. Secondly, I'd have to record any and all phenomena I experienced and would gather myself after the experience to determine if these were natural phenomena through various methods of experimentation.

After that, if I could dismiss both, I'd now know that I had experienced something unexplained--however, it would have to be extremely convincing before I would say, "Ok, there is obviously some degree of the supernatural."

I'm such a stickler when it comes to this stuff.

IronGoth

10-25-2005, 11:34 PM

Go to it.

You'll find the Youth Hostel has neither the time, energy or resources to pull any trickery.

They simply accept that there's a part of the building NOBODY will venture into after dark.

BlackBillBlake

10-25-2005, 11:34 PM

It's a difficult thing really, the whole idea of the supernatural. It's very difficult to point to anything that can fully validate a belief in it. But there are various considerations I think.
One is that so called super-natural occurences have an explanation which is simply as yet not understood by science. There is no 'super-nature' only nature - but the range of natural phenomena may extend beyond the range of our current understanding. There are many un-explained things that fall into this category.
The mind is something which science has yet to fully understand. Consciousness also is very little understood. Things like telepathy, distant vision, and so on, might just turn out to be powers of the mind and brain, with no super-natural element.
On the other hand, there are many who claim to have experienced higher levels of consciousness - through some magical or yoga type route, or through psychedelics. Some take these experiences in a kind of 'super-natural' way. Once again, there are usually alternative lines of explanation.
Myself, I think there are many things we don't understand - a certain mentality will always want to label all that stuff as super-natural. I remain open minded - I'm certain that there is a lot more to existence than meets the eye.

Libertine

10-26-2005, 12:09 AM

One is that so called super-natural occurences have an explanation which is simply as yet not understood by science. There is no 'super-nature' only nature - but the range of natural phenomena may extend beyond the range of our current understanding. There are many un-explained things that fall into this category.

This is, indeed, my current philosophy when it comes to the unexplained. I find it unnecessary to add a foreign concept into the mix...to unnecessarily multiply entities, if you will.

For example, when people use "God" to explain the existence of the universe, I find that they have just presumed this entity as an explanation when there is no evidence of such an entity. To say the existence of the universe is the evidence is a fallacy. They have just used "God" to explain the universe and the universe to explain their "God" -- i.e. circular logic.

I find it very difficult to accept that some thing that is currently unexplained should be used as "evidence" of the supernatural--that a natural mystery is evidence is not exactly convincing nor logically sound.

TrippinBTM

10-26-2005, 12:13 AM

damn, i'm gonna have to check that hostel out some day. I bet I could do it.

anyways, libertine, one must wonder what it would take for you to be convinced. Is there really any possible way, or have you set your parameters such that there's really no way for you to see it that way? What I'm talking about is "rationalization."

Because, according to my understanding, the belief in the supernatural is more about a mindset than it is about specific events that one can point to and say "ok, this was natural, but THAT was supernatural."

It's like how people say the greatest miracles happen every day, with flowers and butterflies, trees in the wind, and just the fact that they are alive. They mean miracle in the "holy" sort of sense (not just as a metaphorical word that sounds nice).

tiki_god7

10-26-2005, 05:08 PM

have you ever seen the movie 'what the bleep do we know' if not I'll explain..its not really a movie but a collection of scientists from across the country explaining reality in a sense of metaphysics and quantum physics. they basically conclude that what we have considered to be real isn't real and that our mind is just making it real for us.

after reading 'autobiography of a yogi' I was really interested in what the movie had to say because paramahamsa yogananda explained a lot of the movie in 1940, except he said that this was what he understood from meditation and yoga and that science was on the verge of discovering it, and then in 2002 the movie came out explaining it.

in a current issue of yogananda's self realisation magazine I found an article with the following:
"Parahamsa elucidated that ancient vedic wisdom which has taught that duality and relativity are the hidden fabric of the universe. today quantum physics knows that the solid aspect of matter is the consequense of the quantum effect conneced with the dual 'wave-particle' property of matter. quanta are fundamental aspects of nature: light and every other form of electromagnetic radiation can appear at the same time both as wave and as a particle......'

'modern physics has stripped matter layer after layer has learned about cells, molecule, atoms, subatomic particles, various forms of energy, and lately, with the 'string theory' may have glimpsed pranic energies. 'strings' are subtle patterns or energy so called because they vibrate like the tonal vibrations from a violin. in a television show presenting the string theory, called 'the elegane universe' the commentator remarked that the string theory evokes the image of a universe similar to a cosmic symphony."

"Nobel prize laureate Sir John Eccles won the prize in neurophysiology beleiving that there is a nonmaterial mind, a mental world which acts upon and interacts with the material brain. with the help from fredrick beck they show the mind brain linkage can be viewed as a flow of information at the subatomic level of brain structures by means of quantum energy patterns called psychons. physicist Nick Herbert postulates the mathematical possibility of mental 'quanta' which he calls cogitons. Psychons and cogitons express a scientific conviction that matter is fundamentally mind stuff."

"Modern physics explains the apparent soliditiy of matter is the consequence of electrons revolving around an atomic nucleus at a velocity near the speed of light. just as apropeller revolving at high speeds gives the illusion of a solid disk. Sensors in the body pick up energy patterns and encode them ina language that the brain can understand: different energy patterns are transduced into specific sensations of light, soudn, touch, taste, and smell. sensations are percieved by the brain and cognized into categories of logical reasoning which transforms the sensations into objects and colors them iwth like and dislike emotion. in the eyes of modern science 'objects' are nothing but ephemeral creations of the human mind from patterns of energy"

the video goes to say that since we are essentially a cloud of electrons like all other matter that if we believe wit 100 percent of our being that we are the water then we would have no problem walking on water, its only our viewpoint that we are not water that prohibits us.

Libertine

10-26-2005, 09:00 PM

Yeah.

Just as I expected. What's even worse is that nowhere does it state unambiguously what the whole thesis is purported to be. Let's compare it to authoring a research article for a scientific journal. Such an article would begin with the 'abstract', a brief paragraph saying, in distilled form, what the whole article will assert to demonstrate in more robust detail: the thesis. Then it would present the body of research, consisting of evidence & methodology designed to converge necessarily on the conclusion. Additionally there would be citations of others' works in the event that they were employed in supporting the assertions at hand.

'What The Bleep' does NONE of this. It says nowhere what its whole point is asserted to be. And of course, with no stated goal to guide it, the story wanders seemingly aimlessly, just thrashing about. It is thoroughly unscientific, in that it's sloppy, to say the least, and utterly ANTI-scientific in that it offers no self critical counter evidence & arguments; there's no quality control. It's an asylum being administered by the inmates.

Yes, yes, of course, Bleep does really have an implicit agenda, namely that people have unresolved emotional problems, which can be cured by way of de-victimizing one's self, by being a proactive, coequal participant in life, rather than a footstool. Sure, but what has the so-called 'physics' to do with all that?

The movie got a lot of the quantum theory and neurology right, but then it proceeds to make a lot of wild tangential claims that are loosely based on the theory and pass it off as the absolute truth.

The main problem I have with this movie, however, is the way these people use quantum theory as a way of providing a scientific basis for mysticism and spiritualism.

I saw the movie as new age religion passed as scientific fact.

IronGoth

10-26-2005, 09:02 PM

RE: have you ever seen the movie 'what the bleep do we know' if not I'll explain..its not really a movie but a collection of scientists from across the country

This film is a recruiting tool for the Ramtha cult.

Sera Michele

10-26-2005, 10:50 PM

I watched about a half hour of "what the bleep..." and I turned it off, I couldn't stand it. I thought they were trying too hard to mix new-age concepts with science. I couldn't get through it.

Libertine, I completely understand what you are going through. I write fiction, mostly, and I would LOVE (LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!) to see some real evidence of the supernatural. My prose is almost always on that topic. For years I was obsessed with it. Growing up I made up ghost-stories a-plenty, kids would have to leave my sleepovers early because they were so scared. I even scared myself a few times! Unfortunatly, I am not a believer in the supernatural either, especially as I have grown older and settled more into reality. It kinda makes me sad sometimes, I miss the days when I thought I was talking to a spirit on the ouija board =(

I would definitely love to spend a night at that youth hostile. And you bet your ass I'd be there ALL damn night. I love to be scared! I plan to make a career off of it =P

Libertine

10-27-2005, 01:06 AM

Colours

10-27-2005, 01:34 AM

i know what you mean...at this point in my life, i dont think i could truely believe in christianity even if i wanted to or tried

MollyBloom

10-27-2005, 01:53 AM

Libertine,

Just so you know: I am just as frustrated with fundamentalist Christians as you are.
---> I don't spend much time on the Christianity forums trying to prove that God exists. I can't prove that God scientifically exists. I just try to talk to people and show them that one can have faith, yet still hold reason and logic. I mean: I am a rational human being just like you...except I get strength from God, and think that the promises of God are real and beneficial.

---Colours: I wouldn't try to "believe in Christianity" either. I believe in God....and I ended up choosing the Christian lense for that as a teenager.

What I'm most interested in is what you're doing about the earth: if you think that government policies on the environment need to be changed: do something. If you think that there is suffering on earth and that Christians aren't responding properly: do something about it. If you think that there are Christians spouting incorrect conclusions from the Bible, (which is how I got started in all this: trying to read the Bible to show other Christians how much they had it wrong,) then do that.
I'd rather work to see real change rather than be on these boards all the time debating matters that, ultimately, one decides for themselves. No one can tell someone else what to believe.

:) peace! .namaste!! assam alaikum!

nitemarehippygirl

10-27-2005, 02:50 AM

Art Delfo

10-27-2005, 04:47 AM

You may have somthing there with the free will thread thing.I must dealve deeper into my parents's libary of Bible stuff for this answer.I have to compare all options and explanations.

Your sig rocks

Kharakov

10-27-2005, 08:07 PM

I write fiction, mostly, and I would LOVE (LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!) to see some real evidence of the supernatural......Unfortunatly, I am not a believer in the supernatural either, especially as I have grown older and settled more into reality.
If you spent less time making up stories and more time observing...

Kharakov

10-27-2005, 08:11 PM

The "prophecies" and "interpretation" horseshit was bad enough, but the constant usage of logical fallacies as arguments and the presupposition crowd took me to the brink of insanity. Logically you cannot know of God's existence unless God reveals it to you.

Illogically you kept asking people to reveal God's existence to you, even after being told that God controls all things, even your knowledge (or lack of knowledge) of God. Of course, even your acceptance of this fact is controlled by God.

Anyway, it seems that you have the problem with logic. People cannot prove God's existence, only God can.

Colours

10-27-2005, 09:26 PM

khar no one takes your explanations seriously seeing as you dont have any sources or even a reason for believing the things you do.

BlackBillBlake

10-27-2005, 11:01 PM

I had to get out of the Christian Forums. I tried and tried, but I could not get over the fact that so many people will just ignore reason and logic.

The "prophecies" and "interpretation" horseshit was bad enough, but the constant usage of logical fallacies as arguments and the presupposition crowd took me to the brink of insanity.

I have come to the conclusion that debating with most Christians is like talking to an undisciplined four-year old. They do what they want to, live in their own world and have no clue what the hell you are talking about--or they just act that way spitefully.

Anyhow... *sigh*
Trouble is with trying to interact with christians - or a lot of them - is that they're just fixed in that one little pigeon-hole - they aren't really interested in being open minded, or even giving real consideration to any criticism.
Generally, they either try to act as 'defenders of the faith' or try to convert you to their own view.

Some of the 'prophecies' come from beyond the brink of insanity!

All 'christian logic' is based on pre-supposition.

MollyBloom

10-28-2005, 01:32 AM

khar no one takes your explanations seriously seeing as you dont have any sources or even a reason for believing the things you do.
Speak for yourself Colours! I always find Kharakov's posts very refreshing.

Besides, I write on these forums in the same way: I talk about my faith without referring too much to Scriptures. Why? Because I think it's important to talk about God being revealed in and outside of the Church.

Anyway, were we to use Scripture constantly, we'd be labelled "Bible thumpers" or something. So either way, it feels like people on these boards have got some label ready to slap on us so that they don't have to seriously consider our words. So I hope you can keep an open heart and mind.

Libertine

10-28-2005, 01:36 AM

Kharakov's posts are about as "refreshing" as a glass of warm piss.

MollyBloom

10-28-2005, 01:37 AM

Colours,

I love you man! Don't think I'm attacking you!

I just am not sure sometimes what people want from us on this board.....us meaning people who ascribe to faith in "God" of some sort, in or outside of religion.

And it often seems like no matter what we say, we aren't taken seriously. I try to honestly look at what people are saying and take them seriously.

I just like when people do the same for me...yep :)

MollyBloom

10-28-2005, 01:38 AM

Kharakov's posts are about as "refreshing" as a glass of warm piss.
Well, he talks about my two favorite things: God and sex :)

Kharakov

10-28-2005, 08:04 PM

khar no one takes your explanations seriously seeing as you dont have any sources or even a reason for believing the things you do.
I only have one source. God. Just like you.

Of course, if you don't apply logic to your faith, you will end up using a source other than God (such as a specific religion etc.). All of these "sources" have built in flaws to lead you to realiance upon God instead of something like the bible, the koran, or the teachings of some specific group (Catholicism or hinduism). Rely on something (within your own mind) other than God for guidance, and you end up with a warped understanding.

Kharakov

10-28-2005, 08:05 PM

Kharakov's posts are about as "refreshing" as a glass of warm piss.
That's because you are an idiot. God made you that way, so I don't hold it against you.

Colours

10-28-2005, 09:39 PM

I only have one source. God. Just like you.

Of course, if you don't apply logic to your faith, you will end up using a source other than God (such as a specific religion etc.). All of these "sources" have built in flaws to lead you to realiance upon God instead of something like the bible, the koran, or the teachings of some specific group (Catholicism or hinduism). Rely on something (within your own mind) other than God for guidance, and you end up with a warped understanding.
But you dont believe we even have our own mind, i thought? Everything you believe you just pulled out of thin air one day, i suspect, which makes it no more valid than any other religion, no matter how confident you sound in your posts.

Libertine

10-29-2005, 03:13 AM

That's because you are an idiot. God made you that way, so I don't hold it against you.
Ha ha...an idiot....

I love you, man.

nitemarehippygirl

10-29-2005, 11:10 AM

But you dont believe we even have our own mind, i thought? Everything you believe you just pulled out of thin air one day, i suspect, which makes it no more valid than any other religion, no matter how confident you sound in your posts.i've got to say, that's a valid point.

schmooooooooooch.

Kharakov

10-29-2005, 10:15 PM

Ha ha...an idiot.... Me too, me too!!
I love you, man.:)

Kharakov

10-29-2005, 10:24 PM

double post...

Kharakov

10-29-2005, 10:26 PM

But you dont believe we even have our own mind, i thought? Thought wrong again. We have individual minds and desires. I never said we didn't. All I said is that God made them to do what they do.
Everything you believe you just pulled out of thin air one day, i suspect, Too bad. Didn't come from thin air... thin air came from the being I believe in.
which makes it no more valid than any other religion, no matter how confident you sound in your posts. So. You suspecting something comes from thin air makes it invalid. Lead on, fierce warrior.

Colours

10-29-2005, 10:31 PM

what is your problem? cant you communicate with other people without being such a smart ass all the time? You seem like youre always angry

nitemarehippygirl

10-30-2005, 02:13 AM

no, i don't think he's angry, colours, don't sweat it.
Thought wrong again. We have individual minds and desires. I never said we didn't. All I said is that God made them to do what they do. okay, this doesn't make sense. i know i keep pointing this out to you. if everything we think, do, desire, is caused and controlled by GOD, then we do NOT have individual minds at all, but are simply different aspects of GOD. Sophia is not "Sophia apart from God", but "God as Sophia". if everything i do is done by God, then I am God.

(a bag of skin and bones, filled with God, who makes it move and think and want, and has a jolly old time.)

it is meaningless to say I am separate from God if everything I do is done by God.
............this concept of "I" is meaningless; what I do, is GOD.

your whole philosophy would make a million times more sense if you quit saying that you are actually something, God aside.
according to you, what can you do, without God doing it for you? he even puts your desires inside your head...

Kharakov

10-30-2005, 08:41 PM

what is your problem? Good question. One of them is this: I wonder if there is a catalytic substance that will convert water to Hydrogen and Oxygen with exposure to sunlight (instead of going through the whole sugar making process...).
cant you communicate with other people without being such a smart ass all the time?Yes.
You seem like youre always angryDon't feel guilty and you won't think I am angry.

Kharakov

10-30-2005, 08:53 PM

i know i keep pointing this out to you. if everything we think, do, desire, is caused and controlled by GOD, then we do NOT have individual minds at all, but are simply different aspects of GOD. Sophia is not "Sophia apart from God", but "God as Sophia". if everything i do is done by God, then I am God. No. You feel what God does. There is a difference. Lots of different souls out there for God to do stuff too.
it is meaningless to say I am separate from God if everything I do is done by God.
............this concept of "I" is meaningless; what I do, is GOD.Completely wrong. God values having souls to do stuff with. God does different things with different souls. Your sense of "I" is very important to God- it defines your relationship with God.
your whole philosophy would make a million times more sense if you quit saying that you are actually something, God aside.I am actually something. God does stuff for me all the time, and I feel it. The thoughts that arise because of the words of God that flow through other souls, the intentional caress of a girl, etc. It is the intent that God has grown within a soul that matters when interacting with another soul. You (can) understand these intents, because you have them within you as well.
according to you, what can you do, without God doing it for you? he even puts your desires inside your head...Exactly. The only thing I can do is feel, and have my feelings displayed by God for others. Our feelings are the light of our soul.
Luke 8:16 "No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light."

NaykidApe

10-30-2005, 08:55 PM

Don't feel guilty and you won't think I am angry.

:D http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/icons/newicons/icon14.gif

Chapt 1. in The Gospels for Dummies.

mati

10-31-2005, 09:15 AM

Belief in the supernatural may be a sign the the person cannot accept the world as it is.

Kharakov

11-01-2005, 08:56 PM

Belief in the supernatural may be a sign the the person cannot accept the world as it is.
Belief in the supernatural is a sign that a person accepts the world as it is.

Colours

11-01-2005, 09:30 PM

in my life, i have never seen anything supernatural happen. if you accepted the world as it is youd see nothing supernatural. seeing the world as youd like it to be is supernatural

ryupower

11-04-2005, 05:11 AM

Run around in your house and take digital pictures at night ( with flash )

and I've told you of stuff. You stubbornly refused it ( it didn't seem like you were conscidering it), but you always come with the commant:
" So, just because our science doesn't know how it happened, - God did it!"

I told you of someone's testimony where in no way the lady could have been healed by something physical ( I know of healings of aids and limbs growing back as well ).

*sigh*
sorry, but I'm in a bad mood today...:(

mati

11-04-2005, 11:18 AM

You are welcome to interpret events in any way you like, this isn't the pseudo-science of the occultists. What does your interpretation give you? Have you learned anything by it? What kind of world do you want to live in? Do you want to go on believing that some "outside" "force" is controlling things? Some unknown something? If it isn't "physical", what is it? Where is it? Does it inhere in something? If it does, then it must be somewhere. Can you locate it anywhere?

mati

11-08-2005, 11:29 AM

Belief in the supernatural probably represents a persons' wish to be immortal. If things can be interpreted in their way then anything is possible. Whatever turns you on I guess. If its' hanging out in the middle of night talking to dead people, then by all means...go for it. I happen to like the world as it is.

Scarlit Rose Flowz

11-10-2005, 12:00 PM

I cannot make the leap of "faith" to believe in the supernatural. Drop some acid, and just THINK about love. And God, and how magical reality is. And wonder what is real, and what justifies suffering. Many people on DMT talk to elves all the time, and an alien encounter on a mushroom trip is not a rare occurence either, Mr. Leary-head.

You know, shroom spores are the only thing that can survive extended space travel and grow when conditions permit. More interesting info: shroom clusters in the wild, seem seperate. Not true, underneath, they are connected with more connections than are in the human brain. They know us and reality better than we do. And the best part, it's all really one mushroom connected underground, much like the underlying reality, of reality. Were all one. How bout that?

krin

11-10-2005, 05:41 PM

"There is no 'super-nature' only nature "

We don't know that,and we could never prove it,if we could then the supernatural would be natural.
Supernatural abides by no logic,no law,it could exist,beyond our universe of logic,and out of its complete random illogical wierdness effect us from that "realm" and theres nothing to prove it and nothing to completely erase its probability.

1+2=3
its apparently a logically stable equation,we can understand its operations and apply its uses,but what is "1"?
you could take 1 and divide it infinitely,its composed of a magic strange goop of decimal places stretching into forever,its blurry and undefined,yet still can be part of a sound structure.
to me this is like the universe,theres an infinity of strange nether-world garbage "floating" "around" but there still can be a solid working logical structure in coexistance.

Sera Michele

11-10-2005, 05:59 PM

Drop some acid, and just THINK about love. And God, and how magical reality is. And wonder what is real, and what justifies suffering. Many people on DMT talk to elves all the time, and an alien encounter on a mushroom trip is not a rare occurence either, Mr. Leary-head.

You know, shroom spores are the only thing that can survive extended space travel and grow when conditions permit. More interesting info: shroom clusters in the wild, seem seperate. Not true, underneath, they are connected with more connections than are in the human brain. They know us and reality better than we do. And the best part, it's all really one mushroom connected underground, much like the underlying reality, of reality. Were all one. How bout that? Because some mushrooms are connected everything is connected? I don't get that logic. (I also don't think a fungus is more knowledgeable about reality than a human.)

BTW, I am no stranger to a few hits of acid. But I do know that my experiences on the drug are because of the drug, not some outside supernatural force.

mati

11-12-2005, 12:45 PM

I do not believe in the infinite divisibility of space. Space is finite and therefore has finite divisibility. "There is no 'super-nature' only nature "

We don't know that,and we could never prove it,if we could then the supernatural would be natural.
Supernatural abides by no logic,no law,it could exist,beyond our universe of logic,and out of its complete random illogical wierdness effect us from that "realm" and theres nothing to prove it and nothing to completely erase its probability.

1+2=3
its apparently a logically stable equation,we can understand its operations and apply its uses,but what is "1"?
you could take 1 and divide it infinitely,its composed of a magic strange goop of decimal places stretching into forever,its blurry and undefined,yet still can be part of a sound structure.
to me this is like the universe,theres an infinity of strange nether-world garbage "floating" "around" but there still can be a solid working logical structure in coexistance.

BlackBillBlake

11-12-2005, 01:15 PM

I told you of someone's testimony where in no way the lady could have been healed by something physical ( I know of healings of aids and limbs growing back as well ).

This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've yet read on these forums.
Nobody who has lost a limb has regrown one.

BlackBillBlake

11-12-2005, 01:27 PM

Because some mushrooms are connected everything is connected? I don't get that logic. (I also don't think a fungus is more knowledgeable about reality than a human.)

BTW, I am no stranger to a few hits of acid. But I do know that my experiences on the drug are because of the drug, not some outside supernatural force.
The actual mushrooms are only the reproductive part of the fungus. The thing itself is called a mycelium, a complex system of fine root fibres under the ground. To assume some magical or mystical 'connection' between mushrooms is simply a lack of understanding of what they are.

It's interesting that some think mushrooms are sentient - I wonder if they believe the same about a tab of acid? Because the effects are very similar.

Colours

11-12-2005, 05:20 PM

I had a thought, that perhaps the reason no one can fully explain the concept of God, is a result of human imagination. We can explain science, we can explain our day to day lives, but when it comes to comprehending the unknowable, we just can't put it into words. It always comes down to "its too big to comprehend". Its because it isnt real, why try to make it real? We need to live our lives and stop imagining

Kharakov

11-12-2005, 10:13 PM

It's interesting that some think mushrooms are sentient - I wonder if they believe the same about a tab of acid? Because the effects are very similar.
It is the sentience of God that makes acid and shrooms so cool.

krin

11-13-2005, 12:39 AM

you believe you can explain your daily life,but im pretty sure it would be far from some sort of objective truth.
example:"I put on my shoes"
if you melt your shoes at which point do they stop being shoes and become a puddle of goo?if the goo evaporates and drifts into the clouds and crystalizes and it falls back down and millions of years later all those particles are dispersed all over the place,when did it stop being a puddle of goo???
we live in fat symbolic worlds,symbols also being a good reason why some would believe that empty space is something that is finite and has boundary,or anything for that matter
they only comprehend a symbolic reference,instead what it really could be,an infinite possibility

its true thinking "outside" the box with infinity is pretty much completely useless in our lives,wont help you get a job or love or whatnot,but if you want to talk philosophy and truth (which is simply entertainment) then lets get dirty!

Colours

11-13-2005, 01:44 AM

i dont quite understand your analogy with shoes and goo :D

Colours

11-13-2005, 01:48 AM

krin

11-13-2005, 04:55 PM

"what is testable is real"
what is testable can be made useful
anything has the possibility of being real,it just might be beyond your understanding.
the power of god is testable,you can see it in the masses of people worshipping and living by it,wars and massive structures built for it.the energy transfer is great.
you might play a word game and say that its the power of delusion,but god is a widespread symbol that will incite great reactions that last for centuries and centuries,thats the power of god and religion.
if i hug a tree and cry out "its giving me strength!!!!"
and i feel more confident about myself,you would probably smirk and say i just "fooled myself" and the tree didnt give me power at all.
you fail to realize that without the symbolic prescence of the tree I would have not incited that strength and confidence (or would I have found it in another symbol)
you have to recognize the power of the symbol as a catalyst for change and evolution and power.
thats testable

the analogy of the shoes and goo is that symbolic identity is an "illusion"
every snowflake is different,every shoe is different,every cell,every neutron,and every part smaller than those are different
every second and every situation will inevitable have a new set of variables
this is why scientific testing cannot be used to fully explain the universe when we try getting down to subatomic levels
the fact that quantum theorists think they can have a "controlled" environment is ridiculous
the very difference in the earths rotation from moment to moment may have an impact on any given particile at any time
when they use this type of bullshit to say that at the base level of existance,things are "fuzzy" or "random" i barf with laughter
we are simply stupid little monkeys who cant possibly factor in all the variables

who knows whats beyond the thresholds of our knowledge

Sera Michele

11-13-2005, 07:42 PM

Some people don't seem to get the difference between science and philosophy.

krin

11-14-2005, 02:44 AM

there is no difference,we assume everything
we make a reaction occur and say it was because of so and so,but we really dont know because we havent figured out the basic principles of what make up reality,so we are really just ignorant assholes full of ourselves

Colours

11-14-2005, 03:57 AM

are we really assholes though? or are you just assuming that were assholes..

krin

11-14-2005, 12:04 PM

im assuming we are,cuz im an asshole

mati

11-14-2005, 01:21 PM

I see no reason to believe in "infinite space". There is nothing in my experience that should lead to such a conclusion. It may be a possibility but I don't believe in possibilities, belief is a higher standard. What makes you think space is empty? you believe you can explain your daily life,but im pretty sure it would be far from some sort of objective truth.
example:"I put on my shoes"
if you melt your shoes at which point do they stop being shoes and become a puddle of goo?if the goo evaporates and drifts into the clouds and crystalizes and it falls back down and millions of years later all those particles are dispersed all over the place,when did it stop being a puddle of goo???
we live in fat symbolic worlds,symbols also being a good reason why some would believe that empty space is something that is finite and has boundary,or anything for that matter
they only comprehend a symbolic reference,instead what it really could be,an infinite possibility

its true thinking "outside" the box with infinity is pretty much completely useless in our lives,wont help you get a job or love or whatnot,but if you want to talk philosophy and truth (which is simply entertainment) then lets get dirty!

BlackBillBlake

11-14-2005, 06:18 PM

. What makes you think space is empty?
Because if it is occupied by an object, it ceases to be space.

krin

11-14-2005, 06:45 PM

actually there probably isnt anything such as space,always some shit is there man.
gravity or wierd waves of some shit being projected from far off.

mati

11-18-2005, 09:33 AM

belief in infinity is similar to the belief in the supernatural, there is no evidence for either. The mind is limited and cannot have an adequate idea of infinity. All we can know for certain are our perceptions.

Archemetis

11-18-2005, 09:08 PM

i dont think its an external search but more of an internal shift of awarness

BlackGuardXIII

01-03-2006, 11:09 AM

'in my life, i have never seen anything supernatural happen. if you accepted the world as it is youd see nothing supernatural. seeing the world as youd like it to be is supernatural' colours

I can believe and agree that is true for you. Not for me, though. I see the world as it is, I think, and I would likely see it just like you were it not for the things I have seen that I can only define in supernatural terms. Many people I have met tell me they have never seen one thing that was supernatural, in their whole life. I, on the other hand, for whatever reason, have seen a lot. In 35 years, since the first one, at about age 6, I have personally seen at least a dozen of them. From precognition, to astral travel, to messages from the deceased, to levitation and telepathy.
Had I not seen so many of these things, I am quite certain I would totally see things as you do. But, that is not possible for me to do, having experienced in my life such events.