Poetry Forum Guidelines

[gdhmomchild]

I don't know why, but it bugs the shit outta me when people come into this forum, expect feed back on their poems but don't bother to take the time to post to anyone elses threads....
Personally I find that rude and inconsiderate~!
Sorry and thanks, I just had to get that offa my mind.*smooths ruffled feathers back into place*
On that note, it reminds me of a lil ditty from an unknown author....

Conversations often fly,
Brain in neutral,
Tongue in high.

[KittenX]

I second that notion gdh! It's very rude.

[gdhmomchild]

~* Really...how hard would it be to just post, liked it, thanks.....and when they whine about not getting any responses....grrrrrrrr~! I find alotta times I end up not reading them because all of the sudden the forums have quite a few from one person and I can see that they haven't taken a moment of their time. My time is just as valuable as theirs. Everyone likes some kind of response ffs... *~

[KittenX]

Cheers gdh, thanks for speaking out! :sunglasse :)

[kidder]

Yup, and criticism shouldn't be taken as light duty. If you like something, say it but if you don't, for the love of anything that actually might make sense in this world, offer some advice. I see praise in here all the time for efforts that were probably just retrieved from the garbage can. Don't patronize people and poems by being so glib. Nuff said! Kidder, wordsmith, prick but still a nice guy!

[fulmah]

i couldn't agree more; it's a shame that it even has to be said. half of me doesn't really care, and I'm content to let people do whatever it is they do, as I believe that it's a self defeating practice to run in, drop a poem down, and run off again. I know that I for one, began improving once I started receiving constructive criticism and taking it seriously; and got even better after I was able to recognize how to give constructive criticism.

Unfortunately, most people seem to only want to write for themselves, indifferent to an audience. I fail to see the logic of posting on a public forum if you're not interested in increasing your effect on that audience.

I almost wish there was one of those "you must post two replies to every thread you create" rules; but I dunno. I could also go to another poetry site that does have that rule in place. I don't want to give constructive criticism to someone that doesn't want it. Many people take it too personally.

[gdhmomchild]

~Ahhhhh, but they aren't indifferent to having an audience. So many whine please read, please respond, but don't bother to themselves. Yeah, the two response thing is nice if for no other reason as to teach people that this is indeed a polite thing to do. Don't take without giving back.
ACK~!!! another pet peeve,lolol...people that post so many at once...ffs~! ummm....can't you spread your treasures out a bit? Give others a bit of time on the front page too? (Must be in bitch mode,lol, the older I get the more I don't mind speaking my mind. Not on the earth to win a popularity contest)

[fulmah]

ACK~!!! another pet peeve,lolol...people that post so many at once...ffs~! ummm....can't you spread your treasures out a bit? Give others a bit of time on the front page too? (Must be in bitch mode,lol, the older I get the more I don't mind speaking my mind. Not on the earth to win a popularity contest)
Or at least put them in one thread! I know that not as many people reply in them, so throw some bait out there every so often; maybe you'll get some new fans frequenting...

[sylvanlightning]

We feed, with our attention, that which we wish to grow.

I would rather have silence and fade away due to lack of interest,
than insincere comments made out of obligation.

Act without regrets. Know that these forums are an interactive relationship. Treat each poem as a gift. A thank you is so appreciated, if the gift was enjoyed. This applies to any relationship. It takes time and energy to share, circulating an insightful or positive vibe breaths life into the continuance.

[KittenX]

No obligation, just honesty. It's a relationship in which we reciprocate, share, grow, relate, help, understand, comfort with words - responses.

[fulmah]

We feed, with our attention, that which we wish to grow.

I would rather have silence and fade away due to lack of interest,
than insincere comments made out of obligation.

Act without regrets. Know that these forums are an interactive relationship. Treat each poem as a gift. A thank you is so appreciated, if the gift was enjoyed. This applies to any relationship. It takes time and energy to share, circulating an insightful or positive vibe breaths life into the continuance.
I find such truth here. The simple "I liked this" comment can bolster a fledgling poet with nerve enough to keep writing and posting. For the majority of poets here, that seems to be all that's needed or wanted.

There are those among us that are skilled enough to give more elaborate criticism, though; but (and this is imo), I believe two things should be figured in first. One: whether the original poster actually wants criticism; and two: how to conduct constructive criticism, if they do want it (and I think this especially important). Maintaining a positive atmosphere is vital when giving criticism. Also, I've yet to see a full blown critique on this forum. I could write a full blown essay on this subject, as I do think that there's almost an art to it.

Anyways, I guess this topic should boil down to this: the regulars setting the example. There's a fantastic group here, with more coming and going all the time. Those who keep coming back are going to see how the regulars operate, and they'll conform; at least according to sociology. A kind and gentle helping hand along the way, arguably, couldn't hurt, tho. :)

[sylvanlightning]

There are advantages and disadvantages to having one location for all of a poets offerings.

It seems as if this concept quickly devolves into reading the last post and considering the rest as static.
Yet, posting more than three new poems seems distracting and denies other new poems time to be seen.

How long should a thread be, for accessibility?

Would revisions or additons to the 2nd page of a 10 page thread be noticed?

Do you prefer to see 3 individual poems surface once, and then disappear, or is it a nice surprise to read them as a unit?

Should poems only of a certain theme be grouped?

After two weeks if comments of thanks turned into a new poem would you find it disrespectful?

Does a multiple poem thread turn into a status of ego rank with stars and views detracting from a present living vibrancy?

I would like to hear from others on this.

[fulmah]

My opinion on this….

There are definite advantages to having all your stuff within one or two threads that are continuously being updated, especially if you write a lot of poetry. Having all your work in one thread keeps all your work visible to a larger amount of people. In my case, my favorite work is in my first two big threads which I don’t update any more. So they’re getting pretty much no exposure. On the other hand, I was only getting comments from the same few people, usually. That’s not why I killed those threads, but yeah, posting stuff separately definitely nets more viewers who’ll comment. So I guess there’s plusses and minuses depending how you look at it.

Yet, posting more than three new poems seems distracting and denies other new poems time to be seen.

How long should a thread be, for accessibility?
I think three poems in separate threads, all posted within the same day, is a little rude to the rest of the community. Mind you, I won’t react offensively to it, I just won’t read the thread(s)... usually. I don’t think there’s any limit to how long people should make their threads, if they even choose to make one.
Would revisions or additons to the 2nd page of a 10 page thread be noticed?I don’t think revisions like that will get noticed too much with the big threads. With the smaller collections, though; when someone new comes along to take it in, of course they’re going to see the revised version; so yeah, that’s beneficial.
Do you prefer to see 3 individual poems surface once, and then disappear, or is it a nice surprise to read them as a unit?
Should poems only of a certain theme be grouped?
I like the theme idea, personally. But I also write a lot of multi-part pieces. There are also days where I’ll write a whole slew of poems, and I’ll usually throw them up as a group as well. I’ve had good results doing this, as well, when it’s all thrown up at once.
After two weeks if comments of thanks turned into a new poem would you find it disrespectful?
Does a multiple poem thread turn into a status of ego rank with stars and views detracting from a present living vibrancy?
I think no to both of these. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a battle of ego’s in here… or maybe I’ve not been paying attention well enough… lol. Also, I wouldn’t find it disrespectful to take peoples comments and revise a poem and post it again. I think if it’s off the first page or two and someone wants to post up the revision, especially if they made drastic changes, that’d be great. I don’t think I’ve seen hardly anybody here do that. It’s a shame, too, that’s a great way to improve your poetry, imo.

This should be a stickied thread. There’s a lot of ways in which this community could better itself if some good guidelines were discussed and implemented. Alas, we’ve no mod.

[sylvanlightning]

Thank you for your well reasoned insight, Fulmah.

Does anyone else have an additional stance on this?

[heron]

I think you should post them all seperatly. But not like 10 in a row. I post every couple of days if i feel like it, I would post in a set if i had several at a time.

As far as not reading them based on multiple posts seem a bit prickish and pretentious, i read based on the title, regardless of how many posts the person made, maybe they just didnt know any better.

[Lozi]

hmm, would there be a way to get a mod to merge people's threads so that individuals would have like one thread each for their poems? i mean...it's just an idea, but if everyone did it....it would seem less complicated...

like..if anyone's been in the UK forum, there's this thing called a 'flyology' which is basically one thread per person which is updated....

[TrippinBTM]

Here's my take on it. If you post a lot, or if you don't post a lot but, on a given day, are going to post multiple poems, it should be done in one thread. In the first case, it keeps all your work in one place. It's not so bad if the first few pages become "static" or unnoticed, hopefully they were read when they were new. Besides, if you were to post them seperately, the older ones would never get read anyways, as they'd be buried in old pages. At least in the single-thread method, your old stuff has a chance to be seen. In the second case, this keeps your multiple poems in one thread, so that you don't clog up the front page all at once.

But if you're like me, who generally only posts one poem at a time, and not incredibly often (every few days, maybe), then posting individually isn't so bad. Plus, it's nice when you go back to read the comments to know what poem they will be referring to, often I'll put up a poem hoping for criticism on how to improve (though usually don't get any).

I also agree that I wouldn't mind seeing reposts of revised poems, since, as was said, it's a great way to improve. People can see the old one, then the new one, and the poem (and poet) grows as a living thing. There's always room for improvement, they say, so I wouldn't mind seeing more revisions.

[Lozi]

good idea. also, on the subject of comments and critiquing....i think it would be a good idea if you see a post that hasn't had a reply and be the reply to that post. makes me feel guilty when i see lots of noughts on the right and gives you a sense of wellbeing:p

[Lozi]

wanted to make this a sticky but i don't know how! I jsut think it would be so much better if people commented on at least one other poem on here if posting their poems too. You like having comments, so do to others as you would have them do to you! Comment especcially on those with 0 comments... :)

[Lozi]

i've emailed Skip about moderators or stickies or something so we can get some guidelines up here. and named a few of the regular posters like sylvanlightning, fulmah and SvgGrdnBeauty

[Lozi]

bump

[Lozi]

bump

[StonedRedhead]

bump
bump
And a bump to you too. Ha Ha.

I just want to agree with what you said. If we each just read and comment on a couple...everyone will get some feedback.

Cheers to Lozi for this idea!

[sylvanlightning]

Stickies would help out so much.

Yes, an active moderator would be wonderful,
especially for anyone who wants to move
poetry threads to a personal forum...
or removal of that which is unquestionably misplaced.

Fulmah has had some great ideas for stickies...

How about yourself Lozi, imho you would make a
great moderator yourself.

Anyone else have input into revamping the poetry forum?

Peace & Blessings ~~*

[Lozi]

bump:H am just gonna keep bumping til someone is made mod

[fulmah]

As long as they’re only guidelines! Rules suck, and I personally don’t like the poetry boards out there that require you to post two comments every time you start a thread. All that happens is someone replies with a "nice" or something, when they haven't even read what they're replying to. Plus, between catching colds and working 60 hours a week, I'm lucky to really absorb the few things I get a chance to read, and then actually leave comments.

But now, a stickied thread that had forum etiquette or suggestions or whatever, that would be beneficial, and I think there's been several other great suggestions as well for some stickied threads. As far as responses, if people want responses to their own work, it's only common sense that you get what you give.... become an active member within the community and more people will read your stuff and some of em will comment. And a mod... I think we've tried to get a new one before, and failed.
bump:H am just gonna keep bumping til someone is made modI'll post something in whatever that suggestions area is... bump that one too and I think it'll piss more people off and into action.... :)

edit:
xaosflux will sticky what we ask him to.... I know that gdhmomchild did a thread about the responses issue that was really good, and sylvan's thread here is another I'd think should be stickied:
http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102645

[Duck]

people definently should comment on poetry more
but to be honest i don't like to put people's work down and i think about 80% of the poems on here suck ass

[tigerlily]

people definently should comment on poetry more
but to be honest i don't like to put people's work down and i think about 80% of the poems on here suck ass

well feel free to tell me what you think, i definitely want help.


oh yes, and "bump" :p

[Oz!]

How about yourself Lozi, imho you would make a
great moderator yourself.

I'd like to second this idea ..... i think Lozi could add a lot to the forum as a moderator (she already does as one of us plebs afterall) :)

I read a lotta poetry here....but rarely comment as i can be direct and overly critical and I ain't here to pee on anyone's kebab :p

A thread discussing constructive criticism, and give the poets a chance to say exactly what kind of feedback they enjoy/need (or expect) might be an idea tho'.....

[fulmah]

A thread discussing constructive criticism, and give the poets a chance to say exactly what kind of feedback they enjoy/need (or expect) might be an idea tho'.....
There've been a few threads that've devolved into constructive criticism debates and such. As it stands now I think the only way to get good constructive criticism is specifically ask for it upfront in the post for the piece.

Another possibility, tho, would be a whole sub-forum of the poetry forum that's for more in depth critique... if we can't get a new mod, perhaps one of the other mods can make that happen as well....

[Lozi]

which mods have the power to make stickies on here do you know?

[gdhmomchild]

As long as they’re only guidelines! Rules suck, and I personally don’t like the poetry boards out there that require you to post two comments every time you start a thread. All that happens is someone replies with a "nice" or something, when they haven't even read what they're replying to. Plus, between catching colds and working 60 hours a week, I'm lucky to really absorb the few things I get a chance to read, and then actually leave comments.

But now, a stickied thread that had forum etiquette or suggestions or whatever, that would be beneficial, and I think there's been several other great suggestions as well for some stickied threads. As far as responses, if people want responses to their own work, it's only common sense that you get what you give.... become an active member within the community and more people will read your stuff and some of em will comment. And a mod... I think we've tried to get a new one before, and failed.
I'll post something in whatever that suggestions area is... bump that one too and I think it'll piss more people off and into action.... :)

edit:
xaosflux will sticky what we ask him to.... I know that gdhmomchild did a thread about the responses issue that was really good, and sylvan's thread here is another I'd think should be stickied:
http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102645
Damn thing has gone missing! Bugger!
But yeah, I have voiced my opinion to many, sometimes in a response to their poem to let them know why I probably wouldn't respond to anymore. The last "person" was the nastiest, rude, expletetive deleted.....

Suggestions (common courtesy)

Everyone like responses, if you post and expect responses, respond to others as well. It also will make the likelihood of recieving ones higher as well. So don't bitch you get no responses if you haven't bothered to put yourself out as well.

Please do not flood the forum with posts and reasons why its not a good idea are as follows...
You will probably not get many responses when the front page is predominantly your new posts only and it knocks everyone off the front page and they in turn are less likely to have their work seen as well. Lets face it, most people only browse the first page or two in this forum. Everyone would like to have a shot at having their work seen and responded to as well.

Be willing to take criticism. This is an open, public forum and not everyone is gonna give you praise. If they respond by saying "this is shit!" its only their opinion and a poorly given one. If someone gives you a critique/suggestion they are only trying to show a different way and be helpful. Don't be nasty because they didn't love it too.

If you aren't getting many responses try being more active in this forum is the bottom line. People are more willing to interact and critique people that are familiar and regulars that contribute. These are reasons why most poetry boards demand two or three responses before you can even post, we merely make a suggestion.


....did I miss anything? Long winded bitch aren't I?
Lozi, you are so great about posting to people, many who do exactly what is suggested here not to do. I just can't be that nice to people so obviously clueless about having any manners/social graces. Everything I posted above is just common courtesy and common sense!

[gdhmomchild]

P.S. Let me know what everyone wants posted and I'll give it to Xaos. He can do it and I usually see him in chat so np!

[gdhmomchild]

P.S.S. I've missed y'all but just haven't had much heart for poetry the last few months. Kinda in a weird mental space these days.

[Lozi]

Be willing to take criticism. This is an open, public forum and not everyone is gonna give you praise. If they respond by saying "this is shit!" its only their opinion and a poorly given one. If someone gives you a critique/suggestion they are only trying to show a different way and be helpful. Don't be nasty because they didn't love it too.

yeah ditto to what gdhmomchild said, thanks. THIS ISN'T THE HIPFORUM AWARDS SUBFORUM!!!! And therefore it's not a compliment or popularity contest either so don't post on here expecting to be told how wonderful and amazing you are all the time!!!:p

[gdhmomchild]

What twists my knickers inna tight bunch is when they don't respond to anyone, make a bitch about it thread and aren't good poets to begin with. The dark and angry or the roses are red angsty groups, hahahhaaa!!

So whatchyall want in the sticky?

[Lozi]

So whatchyall want in the sticky?suggested guidelines as to the curtyseys(sp!) of posting and replying

[Silly Angel]

how about, if you want a critique on a poem, ask for it. sometimes, people just don't want to give feedback. i like to be able to just read a poem and enjoy it without feeling like i have a job to do on top of it. and when i post, i don't always want a critical response. sometimes i just want to put it out there for others to take in. then some other times i'm stuck and need some input.

[gdhmomchild]

What I wote or something else or something more...or less...or sideways....love yah babee!

[TrippinBTM]

how about, if you want a critique on a poem, ask for it. sometimes, people just don't want to give feedback. i like to be able to just read a poem and enjoy it without feeling like i have a job to do on top of it. and when i post, i don't always want a critical response. sometimes i just want to put it out there for others to take in. then some other times i'm stuck and need some input.
True, but I for one would like it when I post a poem to have errors or improvements pointed out. I'm always looking to improve. I don't think, as someone said, that a sub forum would be a good idea. It's better to have all the poems in together. I guess I'll just have to write "critiques welcome" in all my posts.

[gdhmomchild]

how about, if you want a critique on a poem, ask for it. sometimes, people just don't want to give feedback. i like to be able to just read a poem and enjoy it without feeling like i have a job to do on top of it.

and when i post, i don't always want a critical response. sometimes i just want to put it out there for others to take in. then some other times i'm stuck and need some input.
Then don't critique, just post you enjoyed it or something of that nature or post nothing at all. You have no job and nobody expects you to critque. Not everyone is cut out to be able to. Its only polite to respond, especially if you expect any responses to yours. (reap what you sow kinda thing)

This is a public and open forum and alot of people appreciate good constructive critcism. I think its bullshit to have to say to critique or not as that is usually a reason many take their craft publically as well as "putting it out there." If you are not open to suggestions or able to take any criticism you should think twice about posting in a public forum. Maybe a journal or a homepage would be more suitable.

LOL! Good thing Scott and KAA(..wtf was his sn...lone_wolf?) isn't still around as they were extremely blunt at times and could be quite rude about it. We occationally get a few characters on here that are rude, the this is crap, why do you post this shit type that say absolutely nothing constructive. (that tamponfooey guy)

[Silly Angel]

All I'm saying is that everyone posts for different reasons and everyone reads with different intentions. If everyone makes their intentions and desires known, there is no need for guidelines. It's really more simple than people are making it out to be. Is it really that much work to type "critiques welcome" or "no suggestions, this one's a finished piece."

Just for example: sometimes I will post a poem that I'm working on and ask for suggestions of what elements might enhance it. Other times I might post a finished piece solely to share it with other people. One day I might read just for enjoyment and on other days I might be in my "mentor mode". When you set up specific expectations, it can deter people from participating.

Finally, I'm also a pretty firm believer that doing things out of politeness or expectation is not the best reason. If I read a poem and I think it was terrible and beyond reconstruction, I'm not going to say, "I really enjoyed that," and I wouldn't expect or even want anyone to do the same for me. I'd rather not lead people on or be lead on myself. I find it hard to believe that others would rather hear something nice than the truth.

[Silly Angel]

By the way TrippinBTM, I absolutely adore the image in your signature. It's beautiful.

[TrippinBTM]

Other times I might post a finished piece solely to share it with other people..

I never REALLY consider my poems to be finished. There's always room for a tweak or two. :)

[gdhmomchild]

You're right Angel, and nobody expects anyone to conform or adhere to suggestions in a sticky. But suprisingly enough, we have ended up with many people that show no common sense or courtesy over the years and then want to bitch about it. They actually start bitching, whiney, complaining threads about it all.

Nobody certainly expects anyone to say they like something they don't and I don't believe anyone suggested that they do. I however don't see anything wrong with being at least somewhat polite. Since when did having manners/ being polite get to be so frowned upon? You evidently would like people to show politeness. Isn't that what would have to happen for them to show any reguard for your wishes (ie;I want suggestions or just read and enjoy, don't critique) to your posts?

Do you see a problem with having a few suggestions on a sticky? After many years here I personally feel that they could be of some help and evidently, since I didn't start this thread, I'm not the only one. Kinda odd that you do since you just joined and this is the only activity you have had in this forum but if you see where there would be a problem with one sticky post that deals with all these things that seem to constantly come up over the years, please let me know why exactly.

[Silly Angel]

Obviously there's nothing wrong with suggestions; free speech, right? But when you put guidelines in a sticky, it's basically a rulebook with a different name. And no, I guess I don't expect politeness from people by telling them why I make a post. I see it as a difference between being polite and being respectful.

Also, I mean no offense or disrespect, but seniority on a forum doesn't make your opinion any more valid. I have been on public forums for a long time. They aren't all that different from one another and the same basic principles apply.

It's simply that when each person wants something slightly different from everyone else and even something slightly different each time they post, isn't it easier to simply state your intentions for that post rather than come up with a generalized standard, however loose it may be?

Also, TrippinBTM, you've given me a fine example. You say that you never really finish a piece. However, I do. So if I post a finished piece and you post a non-finished piece, our desires for responses will obviously differ. If people grow accustomed to responding in a certain way due to previously set guidelines, both of us could end up getting something other than what we wanted. On the other hand, if you say, "critiques welcome," while I say "please no critiques, I'm just sharing." Chances are we will both get what we wanted, with an unpreventabe exception from time to time.

[gdhmomchild]

They wouldn't be guidlines, they would be suggestions that would hopefully ward off problems and complaints that seem to continually crop up around here. And no, it isn't a rulebook with a different name just a way to deal with the above mentioned. I am in total agreement, that I DO NOT want there to be a set of rules in here to post by other than post as you feel like it.

I agree, senority doesn't make my opinion more valid, just that maybe I see what things are repeated here regularly that you haven't had the opportunity to as of yet. We get alot of kids in here that have never posted anywhere else and then get dissappointed, angry and upset and don't know why nobody responds. The suggestions merely point out why they may not be getting the responses they want. You or I may not have expectations but alot of people come in here with some. Maybe there ought to be the addition of " you may not be getting posts because nobody wants to say they don't like it"

Also, as you can see, there isn't a sticky and I merely made some suggestions for a "Suggestion" sticky.

Oh yeah, yer right, there is a difference between being polite and respect. Usually someone has to earn my respect, being polite however is just treating someone in a decent manner.
_________________
Main Entry: po·lite

1 a : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of advanced culture b : marked by refined cultural interests and pursuits especially in arts and belles lettres
2 a : showing or characterized by correct social usage b : marked by an appearance of consideration, tact, deference, or courtesy c : marked by a lack of roughness or crudities <polite literature>
synonym see CIVIL

Main Entry: 1re·spect

Etymology: Middle English, from Latin respectus, literally, act of looking back, from respicere to look back, regard, from re- + specere to look -- more at SPY
1 : a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2 : an act of giving particular attention : CONSIDERATION
3 a : high or special regard : ESTEEM b : the quality or state of being esteemed c plural : expressions of respect or deference <paid our respects>

[Silly Angel]

Eh, I say if the kids expect something, let them be disappointed :)

And thanks for the definitions, but I already know what they mean. Haha.

Well this is a tired subject. Somewhere in there it changed forms and became something different than what it was. I need to dig up some of my poetry to post but I moved semi-recently so I need to locate my book. Writers block lately so nothing new.

[sylvanlightning]

Thank you all for sharing. I feel honored to be present.
How many threads should be stickied to allow room for current posts?

[sylvanlightning]

I love passionate discussions.

[sylvanlightning]

It has been a while, yet the principles here are still valid topics.

[gdhmomchild]

Just one thread with suggestions and one that people can post to in case they have a new suggestion too...I forgot the suggestion of the single thread to basically journal poetry for the more prolific writers instead of flooding the forum every other day. :P

[skyfire]

have you guys noticed that the only people commenting *here* are those of us who have been around awhile?!

i mean, i dont come around so often anymore, but when i do i read and comment on just about all of them, then post one of my own...its just a matter of respect and good manners.

[skyfire]

Anyways, I guess this topic should boil down to this: the regulars setting the example.
oops...haha...someone else did notice! :) oh boy....

[standingdeer]

In my deepest opinion after thinking about it for a while, I really don't see a problem with people posting multiple poems or keeping a thread with there poems in it. Its all creativity its all sharing and we should feel so lucky to have the grace of wonderful young and old writters. I find it to be a great sense of aspiration when I read others poems, it makes me feel wonderful to know people are so inspired to write to there hearts content. I also feel that its important to remember that poetry is always available on these threads, that if you take a particular interest in someone words then you can look up there posts and comment on there work which will revive that work and people will get to enjoy it all over again. Its a wonderful process, enjoy it!

Blessings
Standingdeer

[Lozi]

crumbs how did these become stickies? does that mean we have mods now?

[gdhmomchild]

No clue how this was picked...I thought a new one was going to get written.

[AshtonsMom]

I feel like if someone wants to read a poem, they will read it; there is no use getting angry if yours doesn't get responses....I don't. I only had four on one of mine, but hey, that's four people that read my work and enjoyed it, you know?

[standingdeer]

I think its important to look at the relationship we have with things, to me this forums is nothing but a thing that I enjoy, I have not attachments to the outcomes that filter throught this place. Not everyone feels motivated to write a responce because they don't feel they can. Not everyone is driven by the same force in there life. Some are shy, others are out going. We are all different, so when you have a place like this you have to expect it all, and not take it to heart. Non attachment. I wish everyone to continue to share, that is what I enjoy most.
Bless

[Keramptha]

Yes, it's not ego tistical to put up a lot of work in one place....becuase writing is an art that has alot of 'mass'

it also depends on how 'done' you are with the poem. If it's just great as you see it, then you might be posting simply to share what you wished to say.

If you are trying to develop your style, you may be more likely to specifically ask for feedback, or post just the one poem, becuase you want it to be scrutinised and in my case, im cuurently experimenting with style, and havent found one thats most prevaiant, or 'stick' so i usualy post the one poem, hoping for feedaback based on what extent the message has 'come through'

[GirlInTheGreenGrass]

I don't mean to butt in, but I've read what you all have to say, and I haven't been to this forum for a while, but I remember reading some of sylvanlightnings, kittenx, and kidder's peices. I've posted a lot at once, because I haven't been on here in a while, and I've written a lot, so I wanted to share a few. So, I just wanted to clear that up. Not trying to be on the front page.:) peace&love

[GirlInTheGreenGrass]

It's late, and I have to work in the morning, but now look what you've all done. I have been reading this and have decided to say something about it all. So here's what I think about all of this-


I look to this forum, as free speech. A place where people can express their ideas, experiences, anger, desires, fear, fantasies, beliefs, disbeliefs, feelings, whenever they feel them; into this great big ocean of thoughts. Completely exposing themselves. Naked, in this great big ocean. People strip themselves, and share what's underneath to all of us, and we share the same respect.

I think that it shouldn't been so analized...When I post something, I'm not like, "Oh yes I want everyone to see me on the screen." I just don't think about it too much, I write something and then I post it.

But to get right down to it, I feel as if everyone's inspiration deserves it's very own page.:) I think it's all going to be alright. Poetry is beautiful in all of it's forms. All of them. peace&love

p.s. I believe that I have given an example of this controversy tonight with my postings. My apologies.

[ahram]

http://www.fancydating.com/

http://www.fancyasian.com/

[Poem~Girl]

i just wanted to come in here and introduce myself. i am mostly in the private forum, but i run my own site and forum also. I just wanted to say anybody can write no matter if you think its horrible or not. My dad (who i take after) will re write things over and over till he knows that its how he wants it to be. But i know that anybody who has a face hands feet legs arms etc is able to write..(i work with handicapped children) i write whenever i have time or however... that also goes for singing to, you can also have the worst singing voice but sound like Whitney houston after a few years. I just wanted to come in here and tell a few people.. Thats all.


Cheers
PG

[sylvanlightning]

Thank you for sharing your work.

[sylvanlightning]

I look to this forum, as free speech. A place where people can express their ideas, experiences, anger, desires, fear, fantasies, beliefs, disbeliefs, feelings, whenever they feel them; into this great big ocean of thoughts. Completely exposing themselves. Naked, in this great big ocean. People strip themselves, and share what's underneath to all of us, and we share the same respect.


I'm personally glad you decided to share your feelings.

[GirlInTheGreenGrass]

thank you sylvan :) And so am I.

[Icurus]

Damn thing has gone missing! Bugger!
But yeah, I have voiced my opinion to many, sometimes in a response to their poem to let them know why I probably wouldn't respond to anymore. The last "person" was the nastiest, rude, expletetive deleted.....

Suggestions (common courtesy)

Everyone like responses, if you post and expect responses, respond to others as well. It also will make the likelihood of recieving ones higher as well. So don't bitch you get no responses if you haven't bothered to put yourself out as well.

Please do not flood the forum with posts and reasons why its not a good idea are as follows...
You will probably not get many responses when the front page is predominantly your new posts only and it knocks everyone off the front page and they in turn are less likely to have their work seen as well. Lets face it, most people only browse the first page or two in this forum. Everyone would like to have a shot at having their work seen and responded to as well.

Be willing to take criticism. This is an open, public forum and not everyone is gonna give you praise. If they respond by saying "this is shit!" its only their opinion and a poorly given one. If someone gives you a critique/suggestion they are only trying to show a different way and be helpful. Don't be nasty because they didn't love it too.

If you aren't getting many responses try being more active in this forum is the bottom line. People are more willing to interact and critique people that are familiar and regulars that contribute. These are reasons why most poetry boards demand two or three responses before you can even post, we merely make a suggestion.


....did I miss anything? Long winded bitch aren't I?
Lozi, you are so great about posting to people, many who do exactly what is suggested here not to do. I just can't be that nice to people so obviously clueless about having any manners/social graces. Everything I posted above is just common courtesy and common sense!
Yes Dear,
You have been most kind to me in the past, and it was only
the dormant state my com., as well as I have been that I've not been
around to say hi, or reply, I don't believe I've ever had any ONE say
negitive/nasty things I've written in the past, and still I've read some
great emotions here, I've laughed, and some may have once, or thrice,
made me swollow hard if it was truly heart felt, I felt for them, as for
myself, I've refrained from making anyone feel bad by writting negitively,
I find all that accomplishes is both the writer and myself feel bad.
Now that I'm up and running for now anyway, I'll be around for good
reading, and will attempt equal writting's, and nothing like a little Neil Young
unplugged to set the mood too..Peace all.
Devon Knight ~ Icurus

[foundme]

now i know exactly whatcha mean

[gdhmomchild]

(((((( Devon ))))))))
Seems like eons! I've been in and out with computer woes lately. Hard to read on a monitor going thru a death throe.
This post was written some time back when the poetry forum was getting a barrage of posts from people bitching and making rude accusations because they weren't getting the attention they believed was due to them. Sylvan made it a sticky because it always seems to crop back up from time to time, the occational "genius" that only got a few responses for their ten posted poems that were so much better than this or that persons....pfft~
The poetry was taken from my heart and soul for awhile and was even having trouble reading any except for a few like my beloved Frost who are more like old friends to me but luckily wounds heal when you don't pick the scabs. Glad to be back myself!

[wideyed]

i like to see people who keep their poems together in a thread. to me poems are fleeting and can be lost if you dont keep them together in a group. i have a thread in here but its about 50 pages back because i havent had any inspiration for a looong time. But if i was ever inspired, i'd go drag that thread out of my history and keep on writing in it. just to keep it all together. the more prolific writers, i think they should write in one or two threads also. jus' because, thats how i like it...

[Anders]

is it allowed to post a poem who isnt your own?????????

[stalk]

Logically, it would deem that Yes,
It is allowed,
Just give credit to the Poet.
Don't try to say something's yours, that's fucked up.
If you want to pose,
progress yourself to the image
you are so desperate to conceive.

Ah, not that I'm directing that toward you or anything,
Just saying :)

[Shroomgirl880]

I would prefer it if they were individually posted- that way you know what poem the feedback goes with

[Icurus]

I don't know why, but it bugs the shit outta me when people come into this forum, expect feed back on their poems but don't bother to take the time to post to anyone elses threads....
Personally I find that rude and inconsiderate~!
Sorry and thanks, I just had to get that offa my mind.*smooths ruffled feathers back into place*
On that note, it reminds me of a lil ditty from an unknown author....

Conversations often fly,
Brain in neutral,
Tongue in high.
"Zealous enough to anger in my attempts at trying,
causing sounds that soothe, and satisfied sighing,
read it for what it is, don't be affraid,
muse over the meaning, and the sound that it made,
ink and the path that it chooses, simple quilled thoughts
of one that muses....."

[alex714]

How many of you revise and revise your poems as you would do with say, a story?


Or do you believe that good poetry can be written in a moment and doesn't need the same level of revision you would give any other ficitional work?


I think I used to believe that if I wanted to write a good poem it had to be in a moment...that the moment would give me the inspiration for the whole poem, not a basic frame work.

Now, I like the idea of revising a lot. I like the idea of tightening a poem so it becomes minimal in a sense, and fits neatly in a well thought out framework. I like the idea of few words concealing great meaning and complexity. And, in my opinion, this comes with revisions.

[Ganja_Goo_Ninja]

I agree. Writing is like any other art form; in that every single second you're doing it, you're just that much better than you where before. I enjoy looking back at my earlier work, and usually do keep my first drafts around, but that doesn't mean I don't revise and change and scribble things out or add things in.

My problem is over-analyzing stuff and thus changing it or rewriting it until it just stops making sense.

[bird_migration]

How many of you revise and revise your poems as you would do with say, a story?


Or do you believe that good poetry can be written in a moment and doesn't need the same level of revision you would give any other ficitional work?


I think I used to believe that if I wanted to write a good poem it had to be in a moment...that the moment would give me the inspiration for the whole poem, not a basic frame work.

Now, I like the idea of revising a lot. I like the idea of tightening a poem so it becomes minimal in a sense, and fits neatly in a well thought out framework. I like the idea of few words concealing great meaning and complexity. And, in my opinion, this comes with revisions.
Everything I write I write in the moment. If I write something it is usually done within a few seconds. If not I usually give up and completely delete everything.

Inspiration for me is momentarily.

[TrippinBTM]

Both, but most of the time they need revision. Sometimes just little nudges to make the flow or meter or whatever better, sometimes I'll chop lines or stanzas, or add some.

Then sometimes I write poems just flat out and they come out pretty good.

[myself]

It depends on the poem. Some are written in a fit of inspiration and remain like they were in the very beginning, others are revised - I look at them and continue or improve it a bit by adding a few lines or changing others.

[Sebbi]

In "Writing Down the Bones" by Natalie Goldberg, she describes the editing process.

There are two ways of approaching editing; one is that you say to yourself that the creator has had space to run wild and now it's time for the editor (who wears a pinstriped suit) to come and along and make everything nice and tidy.

But this is the ego, trying to conceal your honesty.

The other is that the editor is a warrior, cutting away all that is unneccesary.

I generally, don't edit much at all. Often I will waffle, trying desperately to say something meaningful, for ages and then suddenly it'll just come out and then I will take away some of the waffling. Generally though, I won't go through something and reword things or play around with it too much though.

[TrippinBTM]

They say the best thing to do is leave it alone, put it out of sight for a few months, then pull it out and start the revision then. That way you're getting a fresher look at it

[fulmah]

I revise/edit just about everything I write, if I think the piece has potential. I'm getting to the point with my newer stuff that I don't do it as much, or don't remove/change things to a great degree, It's more of a tightening up, taking a word or two out, switching to a different word and whatnot. For a long time, though, I would make drastic changes. There was a method I had to doing it too, because I noticed that I would go through a long drought of writer's block, but when I started writing again, my skill jumped up a notch. Whenever that happened I'd go back through a lot of my older pieces and start revising them.

I've been doing an insane amount of revising lately, or maybe a better word would be "adapting" ... it's for a new project. I've been using several of my personal favorites and incorporating bits, pieces, or the entire thing into an epic work. It's been... difficult, because the "epic" is in the past tense and switching the tense on something I already consider complete is proving to be a challenge. It's the good kind of a challenge, though.... :)

[sylvanlightning]

Excellent! Thank you all for the insights.

I let poetry flow, in the moment, and return to revise if another moment calls for it.

Ok, i went ahead and merged the stickies so there is just this one now... feel free to add your perceptions on any poetry related matters here.

hmm, would there be a way to get a mod to merge people's threads so that individuals would have like one thread each for their poems? i mean...it's just an idea, but if everyone did it....it would seem less complicated...

Sure, just let me know if you want poems merged or if you have any questions.

[FreeBird1969]

I don't change it...most of the time I don't even go back and read it. Too weird for me.

[papapoet52]

I don't know why, but it bugs the shit outta me when people come into this forum, expect feed back on their poems but don't bother to take the time to post to anyone elses threads....
Personally I find that rude and inconsiderate~!
Sorry and thanks, I just had to get that offa my mind.*smooths ruffled feathers back into place*
On that note, it reminds me of a lil ditty from an unknown author....

Conversations often fly,
Brain in neutral,
Tongue in high.
Far out,,,so true so true

[athena_skye]

I totally agree. I actually spend more time replying to other ppl's poems than I do posting my own! Such creative fusions....it's truly amazing.

[myself]

I don't know why, but it bugs the shit outta me when people come into this forum, expect feed back on their poems but don't bother to take the time to post to anyone elses threads....
Personally I find that rude and inconsiderate~!
Sorry and thanks, I just had to get that offa my mind.*smooths ruffled feathers back into place*
On that note, it reminds me of a lil ditty from an unknown author....

Conversations often fly,
Brain in neutral,
Tongue in high.
I both post and I also read and comment on the poems I like.

[Flux]

So would helpful advice on a poem you didn't like be like "that sucked, make it better" or soemthign? Or should it be personal, you know, like "i hate you" that kinda thing?

[Justagrrl420]

I agree..but sometimes you may read something but don't know how to respond. I mean it just seems boring and uninteresting, not to mention not good 'habit' to say the same things over again. "Yeah I love it, you have real talent" just doesn't mean the same after 50 million times of saying it. Would you rather say something you mean or something that's been watered down? I would personally like to say something meaningful, and if it touches me then I let the person know. I don't really care if anyone reads my work. It's there for me, and if you like it, then so be it.

[athena_skye]

Honestly, gdhmomchild, I don't think you were being harsh at all. You see it in every poetry site these days - people who wanna hear that their poetry is GREAT without giving the other artists a lil well-earned praise for a job well done. Hopefully, these guidelines are harsh ENOUGH to make the perpitrator (spelling?) learn to show more care for the poetic movement of others :)

[dragonangelbiker]

i agree people should respond. i have only posted one of my poems so far and i have plenty more that i have written so i hope when i post more everyone will read and respond. i'd like to know what everybody thinks.thanks.i look forward to reading everybodys poetry.

[Old Hippy]

Ya know what...


Most people that only post & never comment are starved for attention. They have real feelings inside but have never learned to support others. Giving praise to others is something that's learned. Remember the line in George Harrisons "My Guitar Gently Weeps" "with every mistake we must surely be learing?" Most people are the product of our selfish society. They were never taught to care for others; only to look out for themselves.

I'm glad that this was brought up here; it helps to teach the many lost souls that it's important to share their feelings in verse. But it's also important we learn to give and nurture each other. Receiving support for bearing our souls is very important. Thank you gdhmomchild.

Now that I've had my say I'll get off my soap box. Sorry it's been so long since I've been here. I've been very sick. Had to go on chemo to kill the hep-C I acquired sharing needles with all those other Hippies so very long ago.

I'm going to make a real effort to hang here more often. If we don't share & support each other; we will never survive this mess we all need to live in.

[Old Hippy]

My poem has one of the lines in my signature.


"Creations branches reach beyond our perceptions
Our grasp of the sum is limited by our form
We create grand distraction to fill our needs
Then lose our souls to delusions of grandeur"

[Sirius]

I like your poem Old Hippy, the words are so true

[sylvanlightning]

I'll 2nd that... ;)

[while lee]

I belive you when you say you got bugged

[dirtydog]

No obligation, just honesty. It's a relationship in which we reciprocate, share, grow, relate, help, understand, comfort with words - responses.Honest? You want to be honest? Give me a break! I'm an American, after all.

[The Instinct]

I don't know why, but it bugs the shit outta me when people come into this forum, expect feed back on their poems but don't bother to take the time to post to anyone elses threads....
Personally I find that rude and inconsiderate~!
Sorry and thanks, I just had to get that offa my mind.It's amazing this thread is so popular and yet I still find poems with aproximately 100 readers and only 2-6 replies. That's like 2-6% feedback. If one wants to improve their writing, does 2-6% feedback really help? You agree with this thread but yet what have these hundreds done about it? If you all agree with this thread then replies should be much much higher, ya think? I say hypocrit because I've noticed some poems may not be that great in many eyes so you feel like not replying. I found one poem written many weeks ago that didn't have a reply so I became the first. Not everyone is a hypocrit though. Just my opinion on this matter. Take it or leave it.

[KittenX]

There used to be a bunch of people on this forum who were "regular" contributors and writers, but then they've either gotten too busy or just stopped coming here, while more and more new people come in and don't really bother to respond or understand the concept of responding to others.
Maybe it's the lack of an actual community on this forum.

[Malapascua]

There used to be a bunch of people on this forum who were "regular" contributors and writers, but then they've either gotten too busy or just stopped coming here, while more and more new people come in and don't really bother to respond or understand the concept of responding to others.
Maybe it's the lack of an actual community on this forum.
Maybe I'm the only bumb blonde here, but I was here posting pretty regularly over three months ago. Then, last week I came back and couldn't find the "Poetry" section. Not wanting to sound like a total idiot I just searched for awhile, then I found it as a sub group in the "Writers" section.

Maybe others have not found it and think it was deleted ot something, I don't know. (Is my blonde really showing?)

Anyway, I am back and posting, and commenting on other's work, and there are different people here now than there were over 3 months ago.

[The Instinct]

Times have changed, sometimes I miss that. Maybe I'm just trying to say my piece and peace about readers who don't reply. Get it out as much as possible rather than hiding it inside I believe. I know this thread is dating back a long time so maybe I was just frustrated with something and spoke to soon before I thought. I don't know. I was born blonde, so my friend Malapascua, you aren't the only one.

[sylvanlightning]

It's amazing this thread is so popular and yet I still find poems with aproximately 100 readers and only 2-6 replies. That's like 2-6% feedback. If one wants to improve their writing, does 2-6% feedback really help? You agree with this thread but yet what have these hundreds done about it? If you all agree with this thread then replies should be much much higher, ya think? I say hypocrit because I've noticed some poems may not be that great in many eyes so you feel like not replying. I found one poem written many weeks ago that didn't have a reply so I became the first. Not everyone is a hypocrit though. Just my opinion on this matter. Take it or leave it.Perhaps this thread was so popular because it was stuck....

Poetry is a moving stream; in gatherings of old certain, aspects of sharing would resurface so in the interest of helping the community, guidelines were suggested. Now that the poetry forum is a subcategory, new and vital interests are presenting their vision, this thread is released in the interest of transformation and rebirth. May all who wish to share be guided to here so that we may all be clear mirrors for each other and allow all that will come to be known in its fullness. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/newsmilies/3/set12_b/joker.gif