The Black Panthers [Archive]

backtothelab

07-07-2004, 04:53 AM

^^Cops in the poorer, generally black parts of town would beat people(think Rodney King). It was happening alot for no reason(most of the time). So, some guys got together and started following cop cars around. Back then, in california, you could were able to legally film officers. You could also carry automatic rifles out in public, so they did that too. Well, the two guys who started the party were lawyers(i think) and they pretty much films all these guys getting beat by cops, then (using the footage) suppoted them in court. Most of these people could'nt afford lawyers, so it worked out good. Later on though, I think things started getting bad, with more suppoters for black power than equal rights. That was pretty much how I understood things, but be free to correct me if I'm wrong. You can still observe a police officer from up to 20 feet, but no cameras, tapes, or (obviously) fire arms.

MC5 and some other people working with the black panthers started WhitePan(the white panthers) which is pretty much like the black panthers, but a total fight against all the 60's white suburan society. It supported art, reading, writing, drugs, and freedom. It's where "Kick out the Jams" came from.

I did'nt realize the above post was directed to beck, sorry.

GrievousAngel

07-07-2004, 05:33 AM

I was a big fan of the dirty 30. In Louisville, KY, during the race rioting there, the cops simply couldn't handle the crowds. So they brought 30 state troopers from Southern Kentucky (where i am from and totally redneck) to handle them. I have no love of the black panthers, the KKK is wrong and the BP's are just as bad, just because you are black doesn't give you a right to hate white people.

hiphopforrespect

07-07-2004, 05:56 AM

Grievous, no offense but you have no idea what you're talking about. You need to do some extensive research into the Black Panther Party. The BPP set up free meals for inner city children of all races. They organized programs to get people off of drugs and get medical help. This is a small portion of the things they did.

The major thing is, they had a sister organization dubbed the White Panther Party. But you don't learn that one in brainwash camp, er, school.

"Don't talk about it unless you know about it" - moms

GrievousAngel

07-07-2004, 06:00 AM

Really i only read about the rioting and the burning of harlem they were behind, sorry but i guess Mark Kurlansky lied in his book 1968.

hiphopforrespect

07-07-2004, 06:54 AM

You're pure genious my man.

beachbum7

07-07-2004, 07:05 AM

The Black Panthers never hated white people. They hated many things the establishment did.

hiphopforrespect

07-07-2004, 07:32 AM

Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about!

Spoonybard

07-14-2004, 05:58 PM

Almost everybody I've come across view the Black Panthers as a black supremacist group. Very far from the truth. Abbie Hoffman donated all of his earnings from his first book, Revolution for the Hell of It ($25,000) to the Black Panthers. Later they would meet again in the Chicago 8 (later 7) trial, and Bobby Seale - a member of the Black Panthers and also of the Chicago 8, was tried with the other 7 with conspiracy to incite riot. It later become 7 when Bobby Seale was given 4 years for comtempt and was tried seperately.

Bambi

07-17-2004, 04:03 AM

How many of you actually think what the Black Panther Party did and was about was kewl? Ever since my research project on them I've felt thta they were some of the kewlest people trying o make a difference. No matter what some people may think, they were not criminals and started out with a non violent approach but the cops soon chasnged that. It was only a fight for Civil Rights. Hey, even after that there was the Brown Power thing with Oscar Acosta. If you know who i mean......Hunter S. Thompson, Oscar Acosta, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas......the real thing that is.

I'll try not to cringe at the use of the word "kewl", and hope you'll consider a writing class.

I worked with the Panthers in the late sixties and early seventies. I remember the school lunch programs, education projects and the attempt to get the military trained Oakland cops to chill.

I'm not sure what Hunter Thompson has to do with this thread, but hey wtf.

Anyway....I saw the Panthers get zapped through the agent provacatuers (and other attackers) who infiltrated and brought the whole thing down. In later movements, people were way more savvy to the ways of those coming in and encouraging people do do illegal, stupid and violent acts.

I worked closely with Angela Davis' sister, Fania, and the women of the Panthers. We were all concerned with the future of our children: black, white, red, yellow or brown.

Madame Bambi

kjhippielove88

07-17-2004, 04:18 AM

well actually im very familiar with the black panther party. when you get a chance look up W.E.B. Dubois. he did a lot of important things back in the day. anyways..he has one son who is still alive named David who is about 70 and my mom is his personal assistant and he is a close family friend. he is the coolest person ive ever met. hes seen so much stuff in his day and he has all these pictures in his house with black panthers and even Martin Luther King Jr. We were going to go with him to this event in Washington D.C. A lot of black leaders from around world were going to attend. David called my house about 3 weeks ago and told us that it was cancelled and know one knows why...very strange

Warrior

07-17-2004, 09:44 AM

Have I accidentally stumbled into an all black site or what? I have rarely seen so many misinformed people in one room. Grievous Angel is the closest to the truth of the lot of you. They were called Black Panthers because they believed in an agenda that was totally black, otherwise I am sure they would have called themselves Rainbow Ducks or some other equally definitive name. Of course they hated the "establishment", it represented Whiteys control over thier lives. In the 60s most of the people who had "tuned in and dropped out" were lame little spoiled suburbanite White kids who had had very little contact with blacks and were easily swayed to believe that by assissting the Panthers they were stricking a blow against the mighty "White establishment" that was behind Viet Nam and was conservative. Of course to a bunch of little brats who wanted free love and everything to be "rosy", being conservative and holding morals was anti-them. It was easy for jewish antagonizers (such as Hoffman) to influence them, to condition them to believe that anything, ANYTHING, ant-establishment was good.

Backtothelab says, "MC5 and some other people working with the black panthers started WhitePan(the white panthers) which is pretty much like the black panthers, but a total fight against all the 60's white suburan society." And is correct. If you will notice the WhitePans purpose was to "fight against all the 60's white suburan society." If the Black Panther Party and the WhitePan Party were not anti-White then why was destroying the White suburban society thier #1 focus?
Before calling someone such as Grevous Angel uninformed, I think you need to inform yourselves.
One quick question: Why has it become so popular to make heros of every black and every black organization (including hate groups, such as the Panthers) simply because they are black? I am not saying that there are not blacks who truly stood for equallity and fought for it, but comon, heros of Angela Davis and the Black Panthers?

beachbum7

07-17-2004, 02:07 PM

Have I accidentally stumbled into an all black site or what?
Whether you loved or hated them, the Black Panthers were an unforgettable part of the 60s. The Black Panthers agenda was mainly empowering an segment of the population that hadn't been empowered (While we're at it, there are others organization who are trying to do the same thing). Were they supposed to be happy that "Whitey" controlled their lives? The Black Panthers weren't the only segment of society that wanted to make radical changes in America then (the SDS was also another).

Every black orginization is not a hero. What makes you think that?

Warrior

07-17-2004, 03:47 PM

Whether you loved or hated them, the Black Panthers were an unforgettable part of the 60s. The Black Panthers agenda was mainly empowering an segment of the population that hadn't been empowered (While we're at it, there are others organization who are trying to do the same thing). Were they supposed to be happy that "Whitey" controlled their lives? The Black Panthers weren't the only segment of society that wanted to make radical changes in America then (the SDS was also another).

Every black orginization is not a hero. What makes you think that?

I replied to this post once and somehow I hit the wrong "button" and lost it. I will try again.
I did not say that every black org. was a hero. Reread my post. I ask a question. I did not give an answer.

beachbum says:"The Black Panthers agenda was mainly empowering an segment of the population that hadn't been empowered"
And I say: Why should they have been, or even now, be empowered? What do they bring to the table? Racist, hate Whitey bullshit? I do not owe them "empowerment". As adults, they should EARN that. I see nothing that they show otherwise. Everyone in America who is worth a nickel works for it.
Black Panthers, now or then, were racist, destroy Whitey, punks. I will not apologize for these words. They are "Whitey owes me" kind of people. But in reality, they owe "Whitey". Had it not been for Whitey, the same blacks who made up the BPP might be dinner on some other Africans table. Think I am lying? I can post cannibal pictures for you.
Anyway this thread is about the BPP. We are detracting from that and I personally would rather not. I can honestly say that the most informed person among you here is G. Angel.

Mui

07-17-2004, 06:17 PM

Warrior

07-18-2004, 12:00 AM

the black panther party fucking rocks... this coming from a white boy... i support them 160%. if you disagree with me, you are a fascist.

nothing but a group of comrades to me... revolutionaries... freedom fighters... the real heros..
This is how White liberals deal with things. They automatically label anyone who disagrees with them. Instead of that would you please give us some evidence that the BPP was "freedom fighters".

grendel 44

07-18-2004, 12:06 AM

Warrior thinks this appears to be an all black forum. What a racist, doesn't like jews either by the look of it.

Hatred is born of fear and ignorance.

I admired the BPP in their time. They really tried to help people, they wanted to make the children feel proud of themselves for being what they are rather than what society tried to make them feel. At the time this was a good thing that was needed. I would love to hear from one of those children to see if it made a difference in their life, to be raised with pride in what you are instead of being made to feel inferior.

What happened later did not make a difference to the good that was done initially. I am a little old lady from Long Beach and I was there. The Black Muslims scared the hell out of me and considered me to be a "white devil". Maybe Warrior is getting them mixed up. However, this is a free country and I guess we are allowed to hate whoever we want, right?

beachbum7

07-18-2004, 01:14 AM

Black Panthers, now or then, were racist, destroy Whitey, punks. I will not apologize for these words. They are "Whitey owes me" kind of people. But in reality, they owe "Whitey". Had it not been for Whitey, the same blacks who made up the BPP might be dinner on some other Africans table. Think I am lying? I can post cannibal pictures for you.
Anyway this thread is about the BPP. We are detracting from that and I personally would rather not. I can honestly say that the most informed person among you here is G. Angel.
You said the Black Panthers owe "Whitey" because they might have been dinner on some other Africans table. Are you aware that when many blacks came to America as slaves, they weren't exactly living the good life? America has always promised "freedom," but for slaves, America was anything but a land of freedom.

I don't agree with all of their views, but they were not black supremacists.

GrievousAngel

07-18-2004, 01:29 AM

What good they did then has long been forgotten. Look at black culture now, Heros in "gangstas' small children are looking up to these people, to 50 cent! This arouses more comtempt in me than seeing a KKK meeting. Children shouldn't be exposed to shit like that.

Warrior

07-18-2004, 02:25 AM

You said the Black Panthers owe "Whitey" because they might have been dinner on some other Africans table. Are you aware that when many blacks came to America as slaves, they weren't exactly living the good life? America has always promised "freedom," but for slaves, America was anything but a land of freedom.

I don't agree with all of their views, but they were not black supremacists.
I never said that negros were treated well here. I only made the assertion that had they not been brought here thier decendants would most likely be non-existant. However, I never said that they were treated badly either. I dont know how they were treated. I only know that they survived by the grace of God and through the goodness of the White race.

grendel44: If racism is born of fear and ignorance, then why am I neither? I came to my racial views through a lot (hundreds of hours) of research, so that rules out "ignorance". Fear? What is there to fear? Being ostrasized for my political/racial beliefs, maybe. But nothing else.

I am a racist (although I do prefer the term racialist - but let us not be concerned over a couple of letters). Now before you all start calling me a Klansman, Skinhead, or continue with the term Nazi, let me make it clear that I am not a member of any organization. The views and opinions I express here are my own and should not reflect on any group or organization that has beliefs similar to my own.
Also, I would like to define myself as to what "type" of racist I am. First, my racist beliefs are based on knowledge and not hate. Secondly, I believe in racial seperation. In lieu of that I want no less than equality. I oppose Affirmative Action and other programs that are racially biased against Whites. I am against my working 80+ hours per week so some minority who is perfectly capable of working can receive free housing, food stamps, cash, and medical benifits. I do not like having certain areas in my city too dangerous for me and my family to walk through because the minorites there hate Whitey. I belief that there are major differences in the races and God Himself is against race mixing.
These are some of my feelings. They are both political and religious to me. Nothing more. Nothing less. If you oppose them, than that is your right. But if I choose to live by them, then please understand, that is my right.

Back to the BPP: They wanted, (according to what I have been able to garner from the opinions of those here), pretty much what I want. But they aren't racist. According to the pro-BPP posters here, the BPP wanted something better for thier people. Why is it when minorities want better for thier people they are 'warriors for the cause'; But when Whites want better for thier people they are 'enemys of the state'?

I don't know how the system works here but I may get banned for simply posting that I am a racist. It will not surprise me as we in America do live in an anti-pro-White society. Besides, I have learned one good lesson about liberals: I don't remember whose words these are, but they tend to ring true with liberals: "There is none so intolerant as those who preach tolerance."

drumminmama

07-18-2004, 03:17 AM

How many of you actually think what the Black Panther Party did and was about was kewl? Ever since my research project on them I've felt thta they were some of the kewlest people trying o make a difference. No matter what some people may think, they were not criminals and started out with a non violent approach but the cops soon chasnged that. It was only a fight for Civil Rights. Hey, even after that there was the Brown Power thing with Oscar Acosta. If you know who i mean......Hunter S. Thompson, Oscar Acosta, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas......the real thing that is.
OK, the Panthers did not start any new concepts in Black rights.
each wave grew out of the wave before.
Malcolm X and Elijah Muhummed both felt that separate would be the answer, and as we have learned, THE answer does not exist.
Malcom later modified his stance and paid for it with his life.
The Panthers were as rotten with misogyny (see Alice Walker's "Luna") as the cultures surrounding them.
They were supposed to "practice" rape on their own "Beautiful sisters" to prepare for raping white women.
All rape is heinous, and the idea that it was used as a viable threat of control is abhorrent.
Any group that raisies itself on the backs of the women will be short lived.
The Chicano/ Brown Power movement was during, not after, the Panthers. So were AIM's beginnings.
Of equality movements, the only ones that needed members to have some battle experience were the gay liberation and women's movements.
Anyone who stands against the powers of tyranny deserves some respect, and I give the Panthers' their due, but they are not the be-all, end-all of Black Power. Look where the thinking has gotten today's black youth.
crappy materialist gangsta "role models."
What Would Huey Do?

Warrior

07-20-2004, 05:48 AM

From the Black Panther Party spawned a street gang in WATTS called the "Crips". Two members of the BPP branched out and created the infamous street gang that has murdered, raped and robbed thier own race. In "self-defense" a street gang called the "Bloods" sprung up. Now, as a direct result of the BPP we have two murding gangs killing off, selling dope to, in general abusing thier own people. Hmmm...on second thought I may just well be pro-BPP. After all if they are the direct ascendants of negros who exterminate negros, than they have saved many of my White people from negros "going jungle" on them. You go, Bpp!

Mui

07-20-2004, 06:50 AM

This is how White liberals deal with things. They automatically label anyone who disagrees with them.
i wasn't being serious about that part dumbass.

Warrior

07-20-2004, 11:42 AM

i wasn't being serious about that part dumbass.Guess I missed the LOL at the end of your joke. No matter, as a liberal you still had to label me, didn't you, (Now I am 'dumbass')? Almost impossible for a liberal not to label isn't, it? I love liberals, you make me laugh.
http://img57.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Warrior101/dissent_is_patriotic_12KB.jpg

velvet

07-20-2004, 02:39 PM

Hmmm...on second thought I may just well be pro-BPP. After all if they are the direct ascendants of negros who exterminate negros, than they have saved many of my White people from negros "going jungle" on them. You go, Bpp!
That you don't like the black panthers, fine. That you are a 'racialist', fine. But I'm shocked about how you make a difference between humans in general.

I'm a 'racist' and 'seksist' myself as well if you want to call it like that: I acknowledgde the different races, like blacks, whites, asian etc.. and I see the differences between men and women as well.. but those differences are purely physical!

Skin color or the presence or a penis doesn't say anything about the person being friendly, kindhearted, selfish, ignorant, smart or whatever.

Blacks and whites are not the same (my long blond hair isn't anything like short curly black hair or the strong shiny black asian hair.. ), but we are equal! I would never talk about women or whites as 'my people' (at least not seriously).. to me the color of skin doesn't matter and since this is a hippy forum I think most of the people here think alike. What makes me wonder.. what does a person like you do here? If you don't have enough love in your heart to care for people who don't look like you?

I'm truly sorry for you that you can't see pasts someones skincolor into their soul.. 'cause that's what counts!

soulrebel51

07-20-2004, 06:21 PM

Warrior, you are one sad sad person. You would get along just great with the white supremecist gangs around where I live.

staples420

07-20-2004, 07:06 PM

This is how White liberals deal with things. They automatically label anyone who disagrees with them. Instead of that would you please give us some evidence that the BPP was "freedom fighters".
And just what the fuck is it that you think you are doing?? The exact same thing!

Love Fest1969

07-20-2004, 07:41 PM

The Black Panthers did what they felt was right and I totally respect that.

http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/lowe_r.jpg

velvet

07-20-2004, 08:34 PM

The Black Panthers did what they felt was right and I totally respect that.
So you respect nazi's and the kkk as well? 'cause I'm pretty sure they're doing what feels right to them as well..

Mui

07-20-2004, 09:18 PM

its hard to compare the black panther party to the kkk and nazis... they are not even close.

velvet

07-20-2004, 09:24 PM

its hard to compare the black panther party to the kkk and nazis... they are not even close.That's not the issue here.. Lovefest states that she 'totally respects' people who are doing what feels right.. I'm only saying that kkk's and nazi's are probably doing the same: doing what feels right to them.. so I'm wondering if she 'totally respects' them as well.. or that her statement about the black panthers was kinda useless

Love Fest1969

07-20-2004, 10:08 PM

The KKK and the Nazis aren't even on the same level as The Black Panthers. The panthers fought for their equal rights and they fought to survive in a time where there was only justice for white people. To even compare the KKK and the Nazis to them is just plain stupid.

http://www.poster.net/washington-denzel/washington-denzel-photo-denzel-washington-6205231.jpg

velvet

07-20-2004, 10:33 PM

*sigh*.. okay.. my mistake to even stop biting my tongue.. if you don't want any sense of normal logical rules of conversation then fine.. I just wonder why you have a conversation then at all..

back ontopic now

Warrior

07-21-2004, 12:54 AM

That you don't like the black panthers, fine. That you are a 'racialist', fine. But I'm shocked about how you make a difference between humans in general.

I'm a 'racist' and 'seksist' myself as well if you want to call it like that: I acknowledgde the different races, like blacks, whites, asian etc.. and I see the differences between men and women as well.. but those differences are purely physical!

Skin color or the presence or a penis doesn't say anything about the person being friendly, kindhearted, selfish, ignorant, smart or whatever.

Blacks and whites are not the same (my long blond hair isn't anything like short curly black hair or the strong shiny black asian hair.. ), but we are equal! I would never talk about women or whites as 'my people' (at least not seriously).. to me the color of skin doesn't matter and since this is a hippy forum I think most of the people here think alike. What makes me wonder.. what does a person like you do here? If you don't have enough love in your heart to care for people who don't look like you?

I'm truly sorry for you that you can't see pasts someones skincolor into their soul.. 'cause that's what counts!
Velvet: There are differences between the races aside from just the physical. There are intelectual and thought process differences as well. Since we are discussing black and White, I will point out that there is a major difference in the IQs alone. The average IQ of Whites is 100, of blacks 85. Whites and blacks do not think the same, either - even with equal IQs. The two races analyse basic problems differently and arrive at completely different conclussions. Whites are emotionally more compassionate to others; blacks are more inclined towards the "me only".

soulrebel51: I probably would, as I do tend to get along well with thinking people.

its hard to compare the black panther party to the kkk and nazis... they are not even close.
Why is this, mui? What makes the beliefs of White racist less valuable than those of black racist? Why should Whites be denied the right to believe in and strive for a better world for thier people? When you consider it the White racist are more correct in wanting White racial identity in America since the White race is the developing race of this country. Now don't give me a bucnch of bull about how Whitey stold this land from the Indians. First the Indians were Asiatic in origins so they obviously migrated to this country themselves. Also, the Whites conquered this land, just as every land has been conquered at one time or another. "To the victor goes the spoils."

The KKK and the Nazis aren't even on the same level as The Black Panthers. The panthers fought for their equal rights and they fought to survive in a time where there was only justice for white people. To even compare the KKK and the Nazis to them is just plain stupid.
And today there is no justice for Whites. So there should be noone standing for the rights of Whites?

beachbum7

07-21-2004, 01:37 AM

You actually give a shit about IQ tests? That's quite pathetic. I think it's quite difficult to have a logical conversation with you.

Skip

07-22-2004, 08:24 AM

The Black Panthers created and ran these numerous programs in various urban areas around the US. This is far more than their government would do for the people. The Panthers earned the respect not only of most of the black community, but much of the local white community where they were active.

BREAKFAST PROGRAM: Every Panther chapter has set up free breakfast programs for young children. They are presently feeding somewhere over 5,000 children per week. The food is pressured out of businessmen raking the profits from the ghettoes and from contributions to the Party from residents and friends.

FREE MEDICAL CLINICS: Clinics are being set up by every chapter. Some, as in Chicago, and Kansas City, are already operating. These clinics are a necessity in black communities which are desperately in need of the most elemental care.

LIBERATION SCHOOLS: For children of all ages, these schools counter-balance the racist, stultifying education that black children encounter everyday in the public schools.

COMMUNITY CONTROL OF THE POLICE: The Panthers in numerous cities are engaged in petition drives seeking community, local control and decentralization of the police force.

FREE CLOTHING DRIVES: just getting started. The Panthers hope to distribute old but still good clothing to the neediest of Black families.

ARMED SELF DEFENCE: The Panthers teach all their members the use and necessity of armed self defense, not only of themselves but for the entire Black community Thus, if a family is threatened, or young kid beaten up, the Panthers can be immediately called.

POLITICAL EDUCATION: PE for ad members and some community members is heavily stressed by Panthers in ad chapters.

PANTHER PAPER: Most Panther revenue comes from the sales (75.000) of their weekly paper, which they see as becoming a national Black community news. In all their programs, the Panthers stress putting socialism into practice, meeting people's real needs, and educating them to the necessity and possibility of revolution. Source: Old Mole 9/26/69

Skip

07-22-2004, 08:26 AM

For those who are ignorant or misinformed, here's the Black Panther Party's platform and raison d'etre.

Black Panther Party Platform and Program

What We Want
What We Believe

1. We want freedom. We want power to determine the destiny of our Black Community.

We believe that black people will not be free until we are able to determine our destiny.

2. We want full employment for our people.

We believe that the federal government is responsible and obligated to give every man employment or a guaranteed income. We believe that if the white American businessmen will not give full employment, then the means of production should be taken from the businessmen and placed in the community so that the people of the community can organize and employ all of its people and give a high standard of living.

3. We want an end to the robbery by the white man of our Black Community.

We believe that this racist government has robbed us and now we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules. Forty acres and two mules was promised 100 years ago as restitution for slave labor and mass murder of black people. We will accept the payment as currency which will be distributed to our many communities. The Germans are now aiding the Jews in Israel for the genocide of the Jewish people. The Germans murdered six million Jews. The American racist has taken part in the slaughter of over twenty million black people; therefore, we feel that this is a modest demand that we make.

4. We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings.

We believe that if the white landlords will not give decent housing to our black community, then the housing and the land should be made into cooperatives so that our community, with government aid, can build and make decent housing for its people.

5. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present-day society.

We believe in an educational system that will give to our people a knowledge of self. If a man does not have knowledge of himself and his position in society and the world, then he has little chance to relate to anything else.

6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service.

We believe that Black people should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like black people, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by whatever means necessary.

7. We want an immediate end to police brutality and murder of black people.

We believe we can end police brutality in our black community by organizing black self-defense groups that are dedicated to defending our black community from racist police oppression and brutality. The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States gives a right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all black people should arm themselves for self defense.

8. We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails.

We believe that all black people should be released from the many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial.

9. We want all black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their black communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States.

We believe that the courts should follow the United States Constitution so that black people will receive fair trials. The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives a man a right to be tried by his peer group. A peer is a person from a similar economic, social, religious, geographical, environmental, historical and racial background. To do this the court will be forced to select a jury from the black community from which the black defendant came. We have been, and are being tried by all-white juries that have no understanding of the "average reasoning man" of the black community.

10. We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major political objective, a United Nations-supervised plebiscite to be held throughout the black colony in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate for the purpose of determining the will of black people as to their national destiny.

When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly, all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to supper, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariable the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Skip

07-22-2004, 08:29 AM

In short the Black Panthers were advocating a revolution of the black people against the racist oppressive policies of white American society. That is why they were attacked by the power structure.

In reality they were freedom fighters seeking more independence from white society that treated them as second class citizens.

soulrebel51

07-22-2004, 10:48 AM

Velvet: There are differences between the races aside from just the physical. There are intelectual and thought process differences as well. Since we are discussing black and White, I will point out that there is a major difference in the IQs alone. The average IQ of Whites is 100, of blacks 85. Whites and blacks do not think the same, either - even with equal IQs. The two races analyse basic problems differently and arrive at completely different conclussions. Whites are emotionally more compassionate to others; blacks are more inclined towards the "me only".People thinking differently happens within races too. Personally I haven't found anyone else, of any race, who thinks like I do.

soulrebel51: I probably would, as I do tend to get along well with thinking people.thinking people? I've had some conversations with a couple of the skinheads here, and they hate other races because their skin is a different color. And because they believe that more jobs are being given to minorities then themselves, when they haven't even tried to get a fucking job.

Why is this, mui? What makes the beliefs of White racist less valuable than those of black racist? Why should Whites be denied the right to believe in and strive for a better world for thier people? When you consider it the White racist are more correct in wanting White racial identity in America since the White race is the developing race of this country. Now don't give me a bucnch of bull about how Whitey stold this land from the Indians. First the Indians were Asiatic in origins so they obviously migrated to this country themselves. Also, the Whites conquered this land, just as every land has been conquered at one time or another. "To the victor goes the spoils."a bunch of bull? So are you saying that the genocide of the natives and the marches that they were forced to make across country never happened? Pure ignorance at its finest.

And today there is no justice for Whites. So there should be noone standing for the rights of Whites? have you ever been pulled over for driving a nice car? I have experienced this myself riding with black friends, because the pigs are "stopping every tenth car". If i get banned oh well, but fuck you. Fuck you and your skinhead ass. Grow the fuck up, and see that skin color differences don't make a person any better or any worse than someone of another race.

Warrior

07-23-2004, 09:03 AM

You actually give a shit about IQ tests? That's quite pathetic. I think it's quite difficult to have a logical conversation with you. Yes, Beachbum7, I do. Is there a reason you don't? Do you know of a better means of measuring intelligence? If so, please inform the government as they have not been able to produce anything better. Nor have the blacks, asians - who btw, have the highest IQs - hispanics or anyone else. Biased, you say - or will say. How?

In short the Black Panthers were advocating a revolution of the black people against the racist oppressive policies of white American society. That is why they were attacked by the power structure.

In reality they were freedom fighters seeking more independence from white society that treated them as second class citizens.
Skip: If they were "seeking more independence from" Whitey, Then explain why they demand that the White government give them jobs, (see #2 which violates #1); #4 is a demand for Whitey to give them housing; #5 they want Whitey to give thier children a black education; and they already have, and had #10. It is known as welfare. Seems to me by your post that they want more "Whitey give me" than independence from Whitey.

soulrebel51: People thinking differently happens within races too. Personally I haven't found anyone else, of any race, who thinks like I do.
True, but I am referencing diversity in thought.

thinking people? I've had some conversations with a couple of the skinheads here, and they hate other races because their skin is a different color. And because they believe that more jobs are being given to minorities then themselves, when they haven't even tried to get a fucking job.
Some thought provoked them into becoming skins. Have you ever ask them what that thought might have been?

a bunch of bull? So are you saying that the genocide of the natives and the marches that they were forced to make across country never happened? Pure ignorance at its finest.
My point was, and still is, that this country was conquered and not stolden. And it was used to squash posts like yours in favor of replies to the questions I asked.

have you ever been pulled over for driving a nice car? I have experienced this myself riding with black friends, because the pigs are "stopping every tenth car". [Edited]. Grow [edited] up, and see that skin color differences don't make a person any better or any worse than someone of another race.I have been pulled over for driving a raggedy car; for having long hair; for wearing a patch on my back; for being in suspicious neighborhoods; for suspicious actions; for riding a motorcycle; for an illegal lane change which I didn't make....on and on. Does any of this qualify? You are getting at "racial profiling". Guess what? I never once got upset about being profiled because of my looks. Why? Because I know cops use that as a means of determining who is likely to be involved in a crimanal act. Black crime is rampant. Car theft, likewise. I have spoken to blacks who are in favor of it. Some of them get pulled over, but rarely. Less often than I do. If your riding around in a new car and you are young, black or White, with ghetto boom, boom, boom, blasting out your speakers, bouncing up and down and acting fools, you will, deservedly be stopped. And, have you ever considered, sometimes the cops are stopping "every tenth car"? The only problem I ever had when being profiled was when they ripped the tags off my bike thinking that they belonged on a bike I had sold and transferred the tags to the bike I was on. Otherwise they checked me and my vehicle out and let me go. Ofcourse I never gave them attitude. Curiously, what was the outcome of your stop?

You called me a skinhead, but I am not. Nor was I offended. But, even though I am an admitted racist, I am not now, nor ever been a member of any group or party. As I have said before, do not judge them groups by my deeds or words. I edited out your statement in an attempt to not get my post deleted as I am sure they will yours here.
When or where did I post that anyone was better or worse than anyone else because of color? I see that we are different, and I believe that we should be seperate, otherwise....

beachbum7

07-23-2004, 04:35 PM

Yes, Beachbum7, I do. Is there a reason you don't? Do you know of a better means of measuring intelligence? If so, please inform the government as they have not been able to produce anything better. Nor have the blacks, asians - who btw, have the highest IQs - hispanics or anyone else. Biased, you say - or will say. How?
Saying you believe one ethnic group is more intelligent than other is to me a dangerous stereotype. In regards of intelligence, I believe in viewing each person as an individual. And each people have different areas of intelligence - some people are very knowledgeable about some things. In college admissions, nobody gives a shit about one's "IQ."

About racial profiling, unfortunately, there are black men are pulled over by cops only because they're black. It has never happened to me, but it has to happened to many other people.

If you think cops just randomly stop "every tenth car," I don't know how I'd explain your thought process.

velvet

07-23-2004, 04:57 PM

Warrior:

I'm studying pedagogy and took several courses of psychology (university level all).. so trust me when I say that IQ test are not very trustworthy and the only reason they are still used is because there isn't anything that's better. However, even if and IQ test is reliable (eg. when made by a middle class white kid) then it's still viewed in the context of other aspects of the kids personality (like his work attitude, attentionspan etc.).

There are tons of reasons why an IQ test isn't very reliable, especially when used on other cultural/ethnical groups or on people with a low social economic status.. I could look up evidence, but I'm lazy and I'm sure you know how to use google as well.

You're attitude towards rases is imho very dangerous.

Warrior

07-24-2004, 06:23 AM

Saying you believe one ethnic group is more intelligent than other is to me a dangerous stereotype.I mentioned "average" and not inclusive. And yes, the truth can be dangerous, - it is dangerous - to lies.

About racial profiling, unfortunately, there are black men are pulled over by cops only because they're black. It has never happened to me, but it has to happened to many other people. By your statement I assume you are black. How do you defend your statement, considering that you personally do not get profiled? I don't deny profiling, it does happen, but not just because of race as I showed in my own personal experiences. Although I do not like cops, on the average, I do recognise the need for profiling, even in my case. Cops aren't stupid. In any job you develop a sort of 6th sense in which you know things just by the sight of them. I think cops, on average, are in tune with that sense. This is not to say that there are not cops who abuse thier powers, but I believe in todays more liberal society, that it is infrequent. No doubt in the hay day of the BPP it was a real problem.

If you think cops just randomly stop "every tenth car," I don't know how I'd explain your thought process. I lived in Las Cruces, N.M. (actually on the Organ mountain east of L.C. on Hwy 70). Approximately 2 - 3 times per month the Sherriffs Dept. would park next to the hwy and one cop would stop a car, 3 cars would go by, a second cop would stop a car, 3 cars go by, the third cop.... and on and on. I know this because I would listen to my police scanner so I could time myself in order to avoid being stopped.

From Velvet:I'm studying pedagogy and took several courses of psychology (university level all).. so trust me when I say that IQ test are not very trustworthy and the only reason they are still used is because there isn't anything that's better. However, even if and IQ test is reliable (eg. when made by a middle class white kid) then it's still viewed in the context of other aspects of the kids personality (like his work attitude, attentionspan etc.).

There are tons of reasons why an IQ test isn't very reliable, especially when used on other cultural/ethnical groups or on people with a low social economic status.. I could look up evidence, but I'm lazy and I'm sure you know how to use google as well.

You're attitude towards rases is imho very dangerous.Lets see if this will help you any:

Excerpted from: The Evolution of One Person’s Views
on Racial Differences in Intelligence
Lawrence Auster
February 1995

IQ and Intelligence

1. In the mid 1980s, New York magazine had a cover story on the growing tensions between blacks and Jews. The article gave figures on black SAT scores that were absolutely stunning, for example, that in the entire U.S. only about 100 blacks in any given year scored over 700 in the verbal SATs. What this meant to me was that the number of blacks at the top level of academic abilities was virtually non-existent. So it was no longer a surprise that there were so few blacks in the intellectual professions.

However, at this time I did not draw any deeper conclusions from this with regard to black intelligence. The data did not suggest to me that differences in SAT scores related to something I would call "intelligence" or that such differences were permanent, but only that, as blacks were at this point, it was unrealistic to expect proportional equality in all professions, and in particular there was this shocking absence of blacks at the higher levels of verbal and logical ability.

2. In 1990, I met Michael Levin when he hosted a National Association of Scholars meeting at his apartment in Manhattan, around the time that he was first being attacked for his statements on black intelligence. I acquired a copy of Professor Levin’s controversial article in the Australian quarterly Proceedings which contained the sentence, "The average black is significantly less intelligent than the average white." After reading it and also hearing him interviewed on a radio program, I wrote a letter to Levin in which, perhaps contradictorily, I expressed both admiration for his courage and concern that he was being too blunt; specifically, I suggested that instead of saying "blacks on average are less intelligent" he might say "blacks on average are less capable in the intellectual skills measured in I.Q. tests"—wording, I argued, that would be more precise and less demeaning to blacks.

At the same time, however, I conceded to Levin that blunt language might be the only way to get at these forbidden ideas. Experience in later years proved this to be correct. I came to feel that Levin, by stating the forbidden truth in plain English rather than in technical terms or euphemisms, had been a pioneer. The reason for this is that without that horrifying word "intelligence," as in "blacks are on average less intelligent than whites," the difficult truth of this matter does not get through to our minds. We can always evade the truth by imagining that the thing at issue is something secondary, like "the ability to take tests."

3. Then there was the question of whether IQ tests measure something real. While this is amply demonstrated in the literature and I don’t want to go into it much here, a key finding that proved to my satisfaction the validity of IQ is its predictability—a point well established by Murray and Herrnstein in The Bell Curve. You can make all kinds of metaphysical arguments that IQ is just the "ability to take IQ tests," or that it "does not measure creativity," and so on. But as Murray and Herrnstein demonstrate in exhaustive detail based on the data from National Longitudinal Study of Youth, if you give a large sampling of fourteen year olds an IQ test, while controlling for socioeconomic background, ten or twenty years later their life achievement will correlate very strongly with the results of those tests. This, I think, is the definitive argument for the validity of IQ. [Note: A couple of years after this was written, Murray demonstrated that siblings with different IQs—who of course share exactly the same socioeconomic status and home environment—differ markedly in their later success and income. This was absolute proof of the reality and importance of IQ.]

Part 1/2

Warrior

07-24-2004, 06:26 AM

4. In 1991, when the New York Post condemned Levin as a racist, I wrote a letter to the Post defending Levin’s ideas. It was the first time I had addressed the issue in print.

In that letter, I saw the significance of the IQ difference in that it meant blacks could not be expected to have equal intellectual achievement with whites, and that lower black representation in the professions was not due to racism. However, I still thought that the lower black achievement might be due to "cultural" factors and therefore could potentially be raised up to equal that of whites. The main point for me was that, as blacks are now, they could not be expected to achieve equally with whites, and that affirmative action was therefore based on wrong premises. I was not particularly interested in the great debate over "environment versus genetics," since the topic seemed metaphysical to me. I was, and am, also offended by the constant references to "genes" as causal in human life, which I think is a materialistic, reductionist concept. I felt we should stay with the things we know, such as the concrete fact that black do perform differently, without worrying ourselves to death over the hidden ultimate causes that we cannot know.

5. However, the problem with the above view is that it leaves open a huge escape hatch for the supporters of affirmative action. They can concede that blacks are less intelligent now, but still insist that if we push blacks artificially into higher socioeconomic levels through massive affirmative action, then black intelligence will be equalized with that of whites. Or, if it’s too late for this generation of blacks to improve, then their children will grow up with a better environment (created through affirmative action) and will be more intelligent. Liberals are constantly looking for ways to keep the egalitarian social engineering project alive; and as long as that project is alive, any failure by society to achieve complete racial equality of outcomes will continue to be falsely blamed on "white racism," with all the divisive, demoralizing, and destructive effects that charge has on society. For these reasons, it’s not enough to know about the existence of racial differences in intelligence without also grasping the fact that these differences are not amenable to elimination by any known means. Of course, black intellectual performance could be improved, perhaps significantly in some cases, if society brought back real standards and discipline and if black illegitimacy were reduced. But that’s not the same as eliminating the racial gap, which is the aim and demand of our ruling ideology.

6. Richard Lynn’s and Michael Levin’s articles on the Scarr-Weinberg cross-racial adoption study in the March 1994 American Renaissance settled these questions for me. The adoption study, which followed until adulthood black children adopted as babies by college educated whites, showed that even with a totally "white" upper middle-class environment and upbringing, the large black-white IQ gap remained; at best it was slightly narrowed. As Levin pointed out, this was a definitive demonstration of a hereditary racial difference in IQ.

7. Then there was the assertion of cultural bias in mental tests, meaning that blacks did worse on IQ tests because the tests emphasized "white" cultural knowledge. Jared Taylor’s interview with Arthur Jensen, published in the August and September 1992 American Renaissance (and even more, the unabridged, 36-page typescript of this interview) blew that notion out of the water. Jensen made the point that in test questions that involved no cultural background at all, such as the ability to see similarities in geometric shapes, blacks actually did worse than in questions that used "white" cultural references.

Part 2/2

beachbum7

07-24-2004, 11:50 AM

By your statement I assume you are black. How do you defend your statement, considering that you personally do not get profiled?Let me rephrase my statement. I have never ever been pulled over while driving a car (I have a driver's license, but I've never had my own car), but that doesn't necessarily mean I haven't been profiled. I'm sure there are times people in stores have paid extra attention to me, thinking I was quite possibly a thief.

I've heard stories about people who've been pulled over by cops only because they were the wrong race, and they've been quite angered. Maybe if you could see some things from someone else's perspective, you thought think differently. I think many black people are aware that could be pulled over only because they're driving a nice car.

soulrebel51

07-24-2004, 12:30 PM

Warrior: You're going to live your life just out of what you read in one book? Who are Michael Levin and Lawrence Auster to even make claims like this? They are not black, therefore they can not understand a black person's thought processes. And what the hell does it even matter if whites supposedly are smarter than blacks? People are people.
This disgusts me that people make claims like "We should be seperated because of our skin color" in the year 2004.

lavalamped

07-24-2004, 09:43 PM

Ya know what? Racism is shit. Pure shit. There is always going to be a lower IQ-average race. I know that there are some black people way fuckin' smarter than myself. Who fucking cares!?!?! That's what makes the US so damn great, man. It would be sooooo much more boring if we were all white...or some other color.

velvet

07-24-2004, 10:10 PM

so Warrior.. if you so firmly believe in IQ tests and you agree that asian's have the highest score.. why don't we try to make this an 'all asian' world then? Or is there something wrong with them as well? I'm sure you can come up with a dozen of things why whites are supposed to be superior to all races, so I'm kinda curious what your problems are with asians..

*hands over the microphone to warrior*

Warrior

07-25-2004, 07:10 AM

Let me rephrase my statement. I have never ever been pulled over while driving a car (I have a driver's license, but I've never had my own car), but that doesn't necessarily mean I haven't been profiled. I'm sure there are times people in stores have paid extra attention to me, thinking I was quite possibly a thief.

I've heard stories about people who've been pulled over by cops only because they were the wrong race, and they've been quite angered. Maybe if you could see some things from someone else's perspective, you thought think differently. I think many black people are aware that could be pulled over only because they're driving a nice car.And you prove my point. Even though I show that I, a White man, have been profiled, your only concern is for you - who has admitedly never been profiled - and your people. This is the "me only" mentality I mentioned in an earlier post concerning blacks.

From soulrebel51: "Warrior: You're going to live your life just out of what you read in one book? Who are Michael Levin and Lawrence Auster to even make claims like this? They are not black, therefore they can not understand a black person's thought processes. And what the hell does it even matter if whites supposedly are smarter than blacks? People are people.
This disgusts me that people make claims like "We should be seperated because of our skin color" in the year 2004.

They are not black, therefore they can not understand a black person's thought processes.Here you admit the difference in White and black thought processes that I mentioned earlier. So why do you argue against me when in reality you agree with me?

From lavalamped: "Ya know what? Racism is shit. Pure shit. There is always going to be a lower IQ-average race. I know that there are some black people way fuckin' smarter than myself. Who fucking cares!?!?! That's what makes the US so damn great, man. It would be sooooo much more boring if we were all white...or some other color.

Just get over it & fuck a black dude.
That's my solution....think about it. :)"

http://img57.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Warrior101/4654loserawardnatalie_2_.jpg
No thanks on the sex with a "black dude", I am neither gay or into what I consider beastiality.

From velvet: "so Warrior.. if you so firmly believe in IQ tests and you agree that asian's have the highest score.. why don't we try to make this an 'all asian' world then? Or is there something wrong with them as well? I'm sure you can come up with a dozen of things why whites are supposed to be superior to all races, so I'm kinda curious what your problems are with asians..

*hands over the microphone to warrior*"

I have never advocated an all White world. I advocate the right to live peacefully in an all White community, with White schools, Churches, bussiness', etc. I advocate not being forced to live among a race different from my own. I advocate my White heritage and culture and the preservation of same. I advocate the right of all people to do the same, if they so choose. I advocate your right to mix with other races and thereby create your own problems. And you advocate that I should surrender my descendants to a world of the problems that you are so set on creating. Thank you, but no thank you.

soulrebel51

07-25-2004, 07:25 AM

"No thanks on the sex with a "black dude", I am neither gay or into what I consider beastiality."

beastility?? what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

staples420

07-25-2004, 09:41 AM

Warrior, people like you really make me sad... and pissed...

Warrior

07-25-2004, 11:25 AM

Warrior, people like you really make me sad... and pissed...http://img57.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Warrior101/271613.jpg

Does this help^^^^?

soulrebel51: "No thanks on the sex with a "black dude", I am neither gay or into what I consider beastiality."beastility?? what the fuck is that supposed to mean?About what it says.

Back to the BPP whom you admire so much. Do you know that they advocated rape? What humanistic people would advocate such a deed? Sounds pretty beastial to me.

soulrebel51

07-25-2004, 10:20 PM

lover/young_peace

07-25-2004, 10:50 PM

Warrior

07-25-2004, 10:52 PM

oh wow, youre sooooo cool Warrior, mspainting pictures to make it look like they are saying something.

I think what you are implying is that sex with blacks is beastiality. When a white man rapes a white woman, is that beastiality? motherfucker.....It wasn't plain? [edit] No, if a White man raped a White woman, it would not be beastiality, it would be rape. And he should be executed for it.

Warrior

07-25-2004, 11:03 PM

I do not support racism against black, white, yellow, red, blue, green, or any people. If you think a person's skin color defines them then I beg of you to think of what you are saying and reconsider.

If you really want to live in an all-white world come to the Western P.A. suburbs. You'll love it here. Many people agree with your opionions, even in the year 2004. Which, I agree, is very disturbing to think of.
Believe me, I have thought long and hard on what I am saying. I have lived among blacks and mexicans. Its like liveing in a jungle. Filth, noise, and a thousand other not so nice things. Perhaps you should move to welfare lane and see how these 'people' really are. I'll even set you up. I have a rental house in Kansas City, Mo. I'll sell it to you for $15,000 (negotiable). In any White neighborhood its worth $75,000 - $85,000. Want pics? It's a nice house. 3 bdrm, 2 bath, attached garage.

There is a reason so many agree with my opinion - they have woke up.

lover/young_peace

07-25-2004, 11:39 PM

Love Fest1969

07-26-2004, 03:55 AM

lover/young_peace

you can't just say that all people of one race are the same. You may have had a bad experience with people of a certain race, but not everyone is like that.

ok... for example, I am white (sorta http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif ). So a lot of white people are assholes. But a lot of people of every race are assholes, it has nothing to do with skin. Can somebody say they hate me, or that I am an asshole, because this has been their experience with people the same color skin as me? No, I have no control over other people, you can't blame me for somebody else because we have the same skin color. No matter what color you are, you can't blame a whole race for the actions of some people.

I hope I made sense to you.

http://www.poster.net/wonders-of-the-world/wonders-of-the-world-stonehenge-4001855.jpg
Thats a damn good point.

Warrior

07-26-2004, 05:57 AM

you can't just say that all people of one race are the same. You may have had a bad experience with people of a certain race, but not everyone is like that.

ok... for example, I am white (sorta :p ). So a lot of white people are assholes. But a lot of people of every race are assholes, it has nothing to do with skin. Can somebody say they hate me, or that I am an asshole, because this has been their experience with people the same color skin as me? No, I have no control over other people, you can't blame me for somebody else because we have the same skin color. No matter what color you are, you can't blame a whole race for the actions of some people.

I hope I made sense to you.
You are only 13 years old so I can understand your position. When I was 13 I thought much the same as you. If you will notice though, the majority of your influence comes by way of that garbage box we call television. MTV is nothing to use as a role model. Nor is the trash that is being called music (i.e. rap, hip hop, etc). The cute little loving black and mexican families with the stupid or racist White "friends" and neighbors. They are not real. Look closely at the programs you watch and see how the Whites are portrayed when in the company of minorities. Notice that they are always portrayed as buffoons or worse.

Majority rules, right? So if the majority of a race is disfuctional and bad, I avoid all of them as much as possible. Besides what is wrong with my choice not to associate? If other races have something to offer and I miss out on that, then so be it. It's my choice.

lover/young_peace

07-26-2004, 06:06 AM

it's cute how you think I watch MTV and listen to hip-hop...

I know this wasn't your point... but it made me laugh anyways.

grendel 44

07-26-2004, 09:03 AM

Warrior, You poor thing, you have been brainwashed. Were you in the marines? Your remarks on IQ are incorrect and I will not even go into why, I think enough other people have done that.

What is your ancestry? Were your family originally from another country? everyone in this country is from somewhere else. The difference is that most of our families came because they wanted to rather than being kidnapped and dragged away to be made slaves.

Why don't you just chill out and relax. Use your energy for something positive and try not to spread too much hatred.

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

Warrior

07-26-2004, 09:44 AM

Why don't you just chill out and relax. Use your energy for something positive and try not to spread too much hatred.Hatred?????? Ha ha ha, I laugh and I cry. When have I said I hate? When have I shown hatred? I am showing love and defense of my own people - noble qualities in a non-White. Why is that? Why do my entire posts disappear when I make a slightly offensive remark against another, but I am constantly called asshole, motherfucker, etcetera and those post don't even get edited. Which I don't want them to be - I want people to speek freely to me. But what am I to expect on an anti-Christian, anti-pro-White site , that bills itself as a home to free speech! Free Speech is the words that brought me to this site:
Hip Forums (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS1/R=1/SS=39112247/H=0/SHE=0/*-http://www.hipforums.com/) free speech forums including music, sex, politics, news, poetry, marijuana, psychedelics, health, fashion, crafts, hippies, classifieds, personals, and more. Category: Chats and Forums > Bulletin Board System (BBS) (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS2/R=1/CS=80969/*-http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/Chats_and_Forums/Bulletin_Board_System__BBS_/)www.hipforums.com/ - 59k - Cached (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS5/R=1/*-http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?tab=-web&p=hipforums&u=www.hipforums.com/&w=hipforums&d=9289596194&icp=1) - More pages from this site (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS3/R=1/*-http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=hipforums&tab=-web&fr=sbc-web&vst=0&vs=www.hipforums.com)

Skip

07-26-2004, 10:57 AM

The subject of this thread is the Black Panthers, so either discuss THEM, or vacate the post, or continue to post off topic & get banned. (this applies to everyone).

velvet

07-27-2004, 11:54 AM

Okay, good point.. back on topic.

Since I don't know much.. hm.. let's say.. nothing about the Black Panthers apart from what I read a bit here.. can someone tell me if the movement is still active and if yes, if there's a difference between the one in the sixties and the current one? Because I recon it's the same like with the whole feminist thing, the issues then where probably bigger than they are now?

Ofcourse I could do a google search on this or I could go to the local library.. but I'm trying to get this thread back on topic, so.. ;)

Warrior

07-27-2004, 03:33 PM

Yes Velvet they are still in existence and they are still anti-White. Although still heavily armed, they do not "appear" to be as radical. If you did do a search, you might look under Black Panther Party FBI. They are listed as a "hate group" and are political "activist". Thier agenda has not changed much. If you were to search and locate thier supporters you would find that they include a non-Christian religious organization. Sorry, I can not elaborate on who the "non-Christians" are as it might be perceived to be racist or defamatory to a certain religious sect and my post might disappear. I have learned that among liberals I am not permitted certain rights that the constitution guaranteed me, foremost the freedom of speech.

velvet

07-27-2004, 04:05 PM

okay.. now I'm gonna give everyone here a challenge... *grin*...:

Try to give me information on the bpp (history and present) as neutral as possible.. or, if that's too hard.. step up your soapbox and defend both sides! See it like a game if ya will.. like, I'm a veggie but I could defend eating only meat as well if it was for a 'game' :)

So.. back on topic and into the 'game'! Who takes the challenge? ;)

monosphere

07-28-2004, 07:28 AM

Good idea, velvet! It's a great way for everybody to look at BOTH sides of the issue. I'm curious as to how folks will think after presenting a viewpoint contrary to their own.

Skip

07-28-2004, 11:03 AM

"I have learned that among liberals I am not permitted certain rights that the constitution guaranteed me, foremost the freedom of speech." - Warrior

If you don't like this site, leave it, but don't make insinuations that you can't back up with facts, dude.

And if you repeat such lies again, you will be banned for defaming this site & being off-topic for the umpteeth time. I'm losing patience with your lies, and I've given you every opportunity to prove one, which you haven't.

There is a user support forum where you can put your complaints about this site. That is the ONLY place this is allowed. Got it?

I might also point out that what your American "Constitution" guarantees you in no way applies to the Internet, which is an International phenomenona which has NO tie whatsoever to the US constitution.

The fact that we give you Free Speech here is due to the fact that we honor HUMAN RIGHTS above all, and we see Free Speech as a HUMAN RIGHT, not limited to just one country's residents. It also matters not the color of your skin, your eye color or any other political stripe that YOU might use to subdivide the human race.

Your problem warrior is that everywhere YOU look YOU see people who YOU think are different from you. The truth is under the skin EVERYONE is pretty much the same (DNA experts agree). You can never be a citizen of the world with your attitude, and are doomed to prejudge everyone according to false stereotypes passed down from generation to generation.

Racists like you are one of the saddest forms of life on this planet. If there is an inferior type of human, you are it. (now I have to ban myself...)

StarMomma

08-14-2004, 07:02 PM

Warrior.....or warrior111.....whichever:

Get a life! Every racist comment you utter just uncovers what an inbred white-trash hick you are.

Jamie

MeloYelo

06-18-2006, 05:04 PM

... The BPP set up free meals for inner city children of all races. They organized programs to get people off of drugs and get medical help. This is a small portion of the things they did....Hiphopforrespect is right on! (Don't forget the Panthers were the ones that brought sickle-cell enemia testing to the black communities). I was at some of Stokely Carmichael's & Heuy Newton's speeches. Heuy was very strong on community building and protection. Eldridge Cleaver was more the "confrontational Panther".

The Panthers mainly wanted to help black people by filling the void left after Malcom X died. Some Panthers were stricktly for the black race, but many were activists wanting to help people of oppression no matter what race they were... Read Malcom X's stuff, it's very real!

Don't know abt the "White Panthers". I was a member of The Students For A Democratic Society (SDS) and we worked with the Panthers on many occasions.

tundrahopper4

06-21-2006, 05:31 PM

Hi all;
What I remember of the Black Panthers is that they were primarily a media event. There were very few of them really, but the media made them star performers on the news from time to time. What really scared the bejabbers out of white America was that scene when the panthers were marching down the street chanting "The Revolution has co-ome! Time to pick up the Gu-un!" They seemed to be serious though and there were shootouts with the cops in CA and ILL. I think it was Boss Dick Daley that invited the Panthers to a shootout "any time any place!" I don't believe they ever took him up on it. Then there was Eldridge Cleaver going to see the revolutionary countries of the Third World and coming back a card carrying conservative. Then there was Abbie Hoffman calling the Panthers a lot of Male Chauvenist Pigs. Then there was some black lady pol talking about seeing panthers with "white girls draped all over them." Then there was the lady writer who talkied of the party being ovverrun by thugs in the latter days. Interesting times and interesting people and the BPs do deserve a Hollywood movie or two; and I would hope that any such endeavor would look at the whole thing-the good, bad and indifferent. Certainly stirred things up in the media and did make a lasting impression. This "New Black Panther Party" as I understand was started by Malcolm x's son and is an Islamist movement. As such they have about as much to do with the orignial BPs as the man in the moon.
TUndrahopper4

Jahagafut

06-22-2006, 07:46 AM

Hatred?????? Ha ha ha, I laugh and I cry. When have I said I hate? When have I shown hatred? I am showing love and defense of my own people - noble qualities in a non-White. Why is that? Why do my entire posts disappear when I make a slightly offensive remark against another, but I am constantly called asshole, motherfucker, etcetera and those post don't even get edited. Which I don't want them to be - I want people to speek freely to me. But what am I to expect on an anti-Christian, anti-pro-White site , that bills itself as a home to free speech! Free Speech is the words that brought me to this site:
Hip Forums (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS1/R=1/SS=39112247/H=0/SHE=0/*-http://www.hipforums.com/) free speech forums including music, sex, politics, news, poetry, marijuana, psychedelics, health, fashion, crafts, hippies, classifieds, personals, and more. Category: Chats and Forums > Bulletin Board System (BBS) (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS2/R=1/CS=80969/*-http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/Chats_and_Forums/Bulletin_Board_System__BBS_/)www.hipforums.com/ - 59k - Cached (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS5/R=1/*-http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?tab=-web&p=hipforums&u=www.hipforums.com/&w=hipforums&d=9289596194&icp=1) - More pages from this site (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=hipforums/v=2/SID=e/TID=F342_74/l=WS3/R=1/*-http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=hipforums&tab=-web&fr=sbc-web&vst=0&vs=www.hipforums.com)stfu..

tundrahopper4

06-22-2006, 02:49 PM

Hi again;
So why did the Black Panthers happen? Well it started off as a neighborhood defense movement in the Black communities of Oakland. Why? Well it seems some police were abusing some of the residents. Now I was thinking of some of some of the psychopathic creep cops we had back in my hometown and a few of these guys were stone cold crazy (jamming shotguns in thirteen year old faces, stealing, beatings...the usual...) . I would guess that the bad cop situation was even worse in the black communities. I think this society can thank the BPs in specific and the sixties in general for the fact that most police Depts in this day and age attempt to screen out psychopathic personalities at the getgo. In this day and age most police departments see it as a good thing that officers are held to account-back then such a suggestion was seen as treasonous. See what some publicity and some billions in legal settlements can do?
Tundrahopper4
PS. Skip's above posting was the best retort to racism I have ever heard!

Jahagafut

06-22-2006, 07:22 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Stop_hand.svg/40px-Stop_hand.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stop_hand.svg)
The neutrality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view) of this article is disputed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_dispute).
Please see the discussion on the talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_Panther_Party). The Black Panther Party (originally called the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense) was a controversial African American civil rights and self-defense organization active within the United States during the 1960s and 1970s. Founded by Huey P. Newton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_P._Newton), Bobby Seale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Seale), and Richard Aoki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Aoki) in October 1966, the organization initially espoused a doctrine of armed resistance to societal oppression in the interest of African American justice, though its aims and philosophy changed radically throughout the party's existence. While the organization's leaders passionately espoused socialist doctrine, the party's black nationalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_nationalist) reputation attracted an ideologically diverse membership base, such that ideological consensus within the party was difficult to derive, and differing perspectives within the party base often clashed conspicuously with those of its leadership.

The group was founded on the principles of its Ten-Point Program, a document that called for "Land, Bread, Housing, Education, Clothing, Justice And Peace", as well as exemption from military service that would utilize African Americans to "fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like Black people, are being victimized by the White racist government of America."[6] (http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/1966/10/15.htm)

While firmly grounded in black nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_nationalism), and begun as an organization that accepted African American membership exclusively[7] (http://www.franciscodacosta.com/articles/BPP.html), the party reconsidered itself as it grew to national prominence and became an iconic representative of the counterculture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture) revolutions of the 1960s. The Black Panthers ultimately condemned black nationalism as "black racism"[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panthers#_note-0), and became more focused on socialism without exclusivity, instituting a variety of community programs to alleviate poverty and illness among the communities they deemed most needful of aid, or most neglected by the American government. While the Party retained its all-black membership, they recognized that different communities (those they deemed oppressed by the American government) needed to organize around their own set of issues and encouraged alliances with these organizations.

The group's political goals are often overshadowed by their confrontational and even militaristic tactics[8] (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002270461_danny11.html), and their suspicious regard of law enforcement agents, whom the Black Panthers perceived as a linchpin of oppression that could only be overcome by a willingness to take up armed self-defense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense).

The Black Panther Party fell apart in the early 1970s. There have been a variety of allegations as to the lengths to which law enforcement went in its attempts to discredit and destroy the organization, including allegations of assassination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination)

tundrahopper4

06-22-2006, 08:22 PM

Jaha;
Fred Hampton was the name of the Black Panther assassinated by the Chicago Police; http://chicago.about.com/od/government/a/031206_Hampton.htm
I remember seeing posters about it at the University back in '70. So to what degree were the Panthers involved in the Police shootings in Chicago back then and to what degree were the Panthers getting the blame for the doings of others? Still an open question. For certain the BP's media presence made them identifiable targets. Then to what degree can the demise of the BPs be attributed to Federal agencies infilitrating spies and provocateurs into it's ranks? Another open question. If the Panthers came to be ovverrun with thugs, black racists and crazies as some have said to what degree was this the doing of the Feds? Perhaps we will never know. For certain the qualities that first made the organization worthy of admiration were gone by the seventies. What is needed is a well researched book on the subject and it should be done soon what with all the original participants reaching old age.
tundrahopper4

gate68

06-23-2006, 12:46 AM

First they discovered they could carry weapons.Then they made a lot of money selling little red books to straight america.Did some good around oakland but mostly made a lot of noise.

Jahagafut

06-23-2006, 04:48 AM

tundrahopper4

06-23-2006, 12:27 PM

Hiya Gate;
Well the BPs were media darlings to be sure-and their posturing and theatrics perhaps drowned out the voices of the less flamboyant. But face it-the black communities had some real legitimate grievances and the BPs did get these grievances across if you cared to listen. If all you cared to see were the social threats well this funhouse mirror media of ours blew that up out of all proportion.
Tundrahopper

Crosslight

06-28-2006, 01:16 AM

what happened to Angela Davis??

tundrahopper4

06-28-2006, 12:45 PM

Hi,
Angela Davis is alive and well and still teaching and writing at the University of Santa Cruz California. I am not sure if she still is a communist or has modified her views on all that. http://humwww.ucsc.edu/HistCon/faculty_davis.htm
Tundrahopper

satirul

06-29-2006, 07:25 PM

there are at most 200 black people in my country;i've only spoken with 2,so i'm not interested to take any sides.but i can't help noticing that:

We believe that this racist government has robbed us and now we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules. Forty acres and two mules was promised 100 years ago as restitution for slave labor and mass murder of black people. We will accept the payment as currency which will be distributed to our many communities. The Germans are now aiding the Jews in Israel for the genocide of the Jewish people. The Germans murdered six million Jews. The American racist has taken part in the slaughter of over twenty million black people; therefore, we feel that this is a modest demand that we make.

none of today's white americans have owned and tortured/killed black slaves.none of the black americans of today have ever been slaves.yet the BP state that white people of today should pay,through the government.that is absurd.

6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service.

We believe that Black people should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like black people, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by whatever means necessary.
equality/better for all people or privileges?

8. We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails.

We believe that all black people should be released from the many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial.
this must be a joke.

i think that races are different,physically and mentally.i do not think they should be treated different because of that.EQUALITY,NOT PRIVILEGE.the right to attend college,not "reservated" "special" places for minorities.the right to attend any job they're qualified for,not the "you MUST have at least a minority employee" policy.

tundrahopper4

07-03-2006, 06:19 PM

Sat;
It's pretty amazing that such blatant criminality could work itself into the ideological framework of the BPs, but the sixties were some pretty crazy times. Now I should be in the KKK for the damage that black criminals have done to me and mine but I'm not. And do you know why? Well somebody once said that humanity is "2% angels, 2% devils and the rest somewhere in between." Yep-and across the board. The BPs started off as a community self defense group but grew into something quite different. In the end the saner members walked away older and wiser. It's the same old sixties story of what happens when the brightest and best start hanging with the dumbest and worst. Learn from this kids-and know that if you get a good thing going to keep the lowlife out.
Tundrahopper

tundrahopper4

07-09-2006, 11:54 AM

Sat;
Now the Irish Republican Army was a sixties movement that held some staying power. So why was the IRA a successfull minority group guerrilla movement whereas the Black Panthers here over the pond pretty much petered out? One could argue that it was the inherent nature of American VS. European societies but the last I was down to the ghetto the people still looked "Po and oppressed". So where did the IRA go right? Well back in the eighties someone in the IRA heirarchy made the decision that only sane people would be recruited into the party; and that crazies, drunks and the drug addicted were of no use. Before this decision IRA was pretty much a joke-afterwards they became "the finest guerrilla army ever fielded."
Tundrahopper

THUDLY

07-18-2006, 08:54 AM

I'm going off-line forever on July 20th. I can see no reason to stay on-line.

I can find information in libraries, in books, the old way.

I'm 59, soon to be dead from heart-problems, and I don't much give a shit-- as Shakespeare said, "We all owe God a death, and he that gives it now, is forever quit."

Bye.

tundrahopper4

07-21-2006, 04:30 AM

Thudly;
Hope I'm not too late. Good on you and good on yours! Glad to have swapped yarns with you over this campfire.
tundrahopper

OnlyOne

07-22-2006, 04:33 PM

noh fuul like ah old foul. bye bye an dont let diz forum hit uh in dih azz.

I'm going off-line forever on July 20th. I can see no reason to stay on-line.

I can find information in libraries, in books, the old way.

I'm 59, soon to be dead from heart-problems, and I don't much give a shit-- as Shakespeare said, "We all owe God a death, and he that gives it now, is forever quit."

Bye.

Timetraveler

07-25-2006, 08:49 PM

The BPs actually did some good that was necessary for the stalled civil rights movement of the 60s even though they never had any real credibility as a black representative group. After WW II there was some progress made in the US towards racial equality, but old feelings allowed it to only go so far. There was a lot of window dressing, but true equality was never going to happen. A lot of hate crimes were being aimed at blacks and several high profile killings proved that there'd be talk of equality, but no changes were ever going to be made, and the killings were going to continue. I believe the black communities showed a lot of restraint, mostly out of a fear of reprisals from ordinary bigots and the deadly KKK. People like Malcome X finally said, OK, we've done the talking and protesting, but blacks are still being killed and all we're getting is just lip service from phoney liberals, it's time to change tactics. The best way to get the undivided attention of the whites and to have them start taking things serious was to scare the hell out of them, and so the rhetoric from people like Malcome X, Angela Davis and the BPs were for a counter-movement of like-minded wanton acts of racial hatred and violence that immediately made most of white America sit up and say, "Hey, them coloreds ain't just takin' it laying down anymore." Suddenly there was a renewed interest in calming things down and the stalled civil rights movement rose in importance and people like MLK were looked at with interest because he was calmer and easier to work with than the BPs. How do the BPs fit in to our present social arena with the old BP look and demeanor? Personally I think they are out of step with todays social climate. Regressing back to the thug-tactics isn't necessary and isn't representative of any sort of progress that blacks should have achieved over the past 40 years if they have to drag out the old guard to achieve anything. That's a giant step back if they do. America has made the change from single-mindedness to multi-lateral ethnic/cultural/racial acceptance. Fine tuning the results will achieve more than thinking you have to refight old battles. The BPs need to change with the times, not relive them.