Help smash fascism! *LEEDS 2nd Nov*

[PeopleAreStrange]

9am Wednesday 2 November, outside Leeds Crown Court, Oxford Row. Rally outside Leeds Art Gallery at 12 noon


Anti-fascist campaigners from across the country are mobilising for a demonstration to stop a planned protest by the Nazi British National Party (BNP) in Leeds on Wednesday 2 November

The demonstration, organised by Yorkshire and the Humber TUC and Unite Against Fascism, will coincide with a court appearance by BNP leader Nick Griffin on charges of inciting racial hatred...


The nazis will be there, but ime sure there will be a triple ammount of us....
If anyone can make it, reply to this message.

whether ime at work that day or not ime making this one...

for more info= http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=7540

peace peoples

[precioso]

I live in Bradford, I can definately make that.

Effing BNP.

At the last elections one came to my friends house while I was there and gave her some leaflets and starting ranting at her about how the governemnt should send all the 'jungle bunnies and pakis home'.. dispite the fact my friend is obviously mixed race. Idiots.

[PeopleAreStrange]

I live in Bradford, I can definately make that.

Effing BNP.

At the last elections one came to my friends house while I was there and gave her some leaflets and starting ranting at her about how the governemnt should send all the 'jungle bunnies and pakis home'.. dispite the fact my friend is obviously mixed race. Idiots.
thats terrible man, the bnp are full of it

[PeopleAreStrange]

this is kind of weird...this post has been up for seven days and only one person can make it from here?

[Claire]

most people work etc on a Wednesday bud :)

Good luck, I'll be there in spirit...

try posting this on ukhippy.com ?

[Stonecircle]

Erm to put people right with the facts, socialists have killed far more people than fascists. For example Stalin, Chairman Mao and Pol Pot murdered countless millions in the name of socialist utopia and look at the appalling state of socialist countries like North Korea and Cuba. Apart from nazi Germany, fascist countries like Chile, Spain and Portugal had, far, far lower death rates and persecution than the communist world had.

The Black Book of Communism. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674076087/002-7166487-0347240?v=glance&n=283155)

[Claire]

Thanks for putting us right.

I shall support facists in future

erm...

[jonny2mad]

well they did have nice uniforms :0)


but apart from that Im sure there were people who didnt gas or mass murder anyone like the swiss , wouldnt they be better to follow than nazi germany ect ect

[Claire]

well they did have nice uniforms :0)


but apart from that Im sure there were people who didnt gas or mass murder anyone like the swiss , wouldnt they be better to follow than nazi germany ect ect
I like a man in uniform :eek:

I think it's important to understand that people use labels to define themselves without truely caring about the ethics behind that "label".

Any label / movement can be abused by unscrupulous people... it dosn't take away from the the beauty of the original concept.

And more importantly, it dosn't mean that the opposition are correct by default.

[Stonecircle]

You should really be protesting in Eastern Europe where fascism has grown enormously since the fall of communism in 1989 and where viscous racial attacks and murders are quite commonplace. The BNP in Britain are micro-scopic by comparaision. They have an extremely small following here. In Russia tommorrow there will be a demonstration by hundreds of foreign students over fascist skinhead violence in cities like St Petersburg and Moscow where there have been several foreign students stabbed to death in recent months.

See this new report here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1959622,00.html

[England]

You should really be protesting in Eastern Europe where fascism has grown enormously since the fall of communism in 1989 and where viscous racial attacks and murders are quite commonplace. The BNP in Britain are micro-scopic by comparaision. They have an extremely small following here. In Russia tommorrow there will be a demonstration by hundreds of foreign students over fascist skinhead violence in cities like St Petersburg and Moscow where there have been several foreign students stabbed to death in recent months.

See this new report here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1959622,00.html
With all due respect mate the British National Party are the fastest growing party in Britain.

[brothwood]

With all due respect mate the British National Party are the fastest growing party in Britain.
can i have the evidence of such a statement? because from what i have studied they were quite strongly crushed in the last General/local and London elections. i am not sure of party membership size, but they are losing any 'power' they ever had.

[spejemelujai]

Hiya,
So brotherwood, were the BNP gains in local elections enough evidence for you?
I recon the main parties are talking the language of the right, to sound tuff. This drives the whole debate to the right. Particularly, this whole media bullshit before the local elections, it started with a woman mp saying that 38% (or something) of her constituents were 'think about voting BNP' this got bandied around in the media so much with loads of reports saying, they would do well in the coming poles. I think this had an influence and it shows what kind of sheep vote for those twats,
those darn fasicts when will they work it out? I get so frustrated. I once went to throw eggs at nick griffin and jean marie le penn, it was very cathartic. Exciting to see the fash run away from a crowd of people of all ages and colours. Still i think violence is not the answer, it's more the nazi's territory. We have numbers so yes let's be there!

[England]

I would have voted for the BNP had there been local elections here in Nottingham. What other party thinks of the British people? What other party wants to protect British culture and traditions? What other party wants to protect this Island? There's only 1 party worth voting for and it isn't Labour, Conservative or the Lib Dems. It's the British National Party.

[brothwood]

Hiya,
So brotherwood, were the BNP gains in local elections enough evidence for you?
I recon the main parties are talking the language of the right, to sound tuff. This drives the whole debate to the right. Particularly, this whole media bullshit before the local elections, it started with a woman mp saying that 38% (or something) of her constituents were 'think about voting BNP' this got bandied around in the media so much with loads of reports saying, they would do well in the coming poles. I think this had an influence and it shows what kind of sheep vote for those twats,
those darn fasicts when will they work it out? I get so frustrated. I once went to throw eggs at nick griffin and jean marie le penn, it was very cathartic. Exciting to see the fash run away from a crowd of people of all ages and colours. Still i think violence is not the answer, it's more the nazi's territory. We have numbers so yes let's be there!
no because there is a difference between growth and power with the political system set up in this country. The BNP are not a threat on a lawful, national level, because the majority do not support them and are in most cases disgusted by them.

i despise the BNP, but i love freedom and democracy, so i must take it for what it is, a public choice, but they will not change our (unwritten) constitution and laws, especially human rights.

hopefully now, the BNP have some seats and people can see what morons they are, and people won't vote for them again

[brothwood]

I would have voted for the BNP had there been local elections here in Nottingham. What other party thinks of the British people? What other party wants to protect British culture and traditions? What other party wants to protect this Island? There's only 1 party worth voting for and it isn't Labour, Conservative or the Lib Dems. It's the British National Party.
and here is an example of the morons in this country.....:(

what other party, judges somebody because of the colour of their skin?
no offense, as we have freedom so you can post here, but this a website called hipforums, so usually people with racist tendancies only come on this site to piss others off

may i also ask why there wasn't local elections in Nottingham?
peace and non-judgement (unlike BNP) x

[England]

and here is an example of the morons in this country.....:(

what other party, judges somebody because of the colour of their skin?
no offense, as we have freedom so you can post here, but this a website called hipforums, so usually people with racist tendancies only come on this site to piss others off

may i also ask why there wasn't local elections in Nottingham?
peace and non-judgement (unlike BNP) x
You listen to the media too much. The BNP put the British people 1st. The muslims demand to be put 1st. They're dangerous people. The reason why there was no local elections in Nottingham is because we held them last year.

[brothwood]

You listen to the media too much. The BNP put the British people 1st. The muslims demand to be put 1st. They're dangerous people. The reason why there was no local elections in Nottingham is because we held them last year.

haha, i listen to the media too much?? i find it kinda ironic from a person who believes a racist party is the best party to represent this country and what we stand for.

The BNP put the british people first, no they put the WHITE british people first. their policies could not survive in the modern situation, especially socially and economically

and when you refer to the 'muslims' can you speak for all of them, or are you totally stereotyping/generalizing the muslim people, as I know many Muslim who don't have your said opinion. that statement was as innacurate as me saying, all the people with blue eyes only care about themselves and how they can advance the power of others with blue eyes.

do some research on the BNP, and you will see why they should never gain power.

[_chris_]

You listen to the media too much. The BNP put the British people 1st. The muslims demand to be put 1st. They're dangerous people. The reason why there was no local elections in Nottingham is because we held them last year.
Can Muslims nto be Brittish people?


and by not allowing our workforce to grow, thats helping the Brittish people?

[England]

haha, i listen to the media too much?? i find it kinda ironic from a person who believes a racist party is the best party to represent this country and what we stand for.

The BNP put the british people first, no they put the WHITE british people first. their policies could not survive in the modern situation, especially socially and economically

and when you refer to the 'muslims' can you speak for all of them, or are you totally stereotyping/generalizing the muslim people, as I know many Muslim who don't have your said opinion. that statement was as innacurate as me saying, all the people with blue eyes only care about themselves and how they can advance the power of others with blue eyes.

do some research on the BNP, and you will see why they should never gain power.
What do you mean "do some research on the BNP?" I have done some research on the BNP and I wouldn't be paying for a British National Party membership for just any party now would I? I even a membership card to prove it if you'd like to see.
You only have look at the state of the middle east to see why we shouldn't associate ourselves with muslims. We didn't ask, nor were we asked for a multi-cultural society. We had it forced upon us and as a result of that we British people struggle to buy houses, pay too much tax mostly going to illegal immigrants. Note that muslims have the highest unemployment rate in Britain than any other. What good are they for the British economy? They take our money, they rape our women, they murder our people yet they give nothing in return for their hospitality.

[brothwood]

What do you mean "do some research on the BNP?" I have done some research on the BNP and I wouldn't be paying for a British National Party membership for just any party now would I? I even a membership card to prove it if you'd like to see.
You only have look at the state of the middle east to see why we shouldn't associate ourselves with muslims. We didn't ask, nor were we asked for a multi-cultural society. We had it forced upon us and as a result of that we British people struggle to buy houses, pay too much tax mostly going to illegal immigrants. Note that muslims have the highest unemployment rate in Britain than any other. What good are they for the British economy? They take our money, they rape our women, they murder our people yet they give nothing in return for their hospitality.
you have got to be kidding, right?? WE didn't ask to be a multicultural country?? who is 'we' the pure blood english??? ermm and i believe the fact we are (not perfect) a liberal democracy kind of implies such a situation would occur.

so by your logic, you believe that muslims have the lowest unemplyment rate because its their choice?? or because they cannot get jobs?

they rape our women, haha, murder our people, take our jobs, you are beyond a joke!!! look at the crime figures proportionately for the UK, you will find that white men are the main culprit of crime, and when I mean crime, i mean all crime including fraud because that does have an effect on our economy.

i really do not mean to be offensive to you because I believe in freedom of speech and freedom as a whole even though you do not, but you are clearly not the most intelligent person, and you obviously have just had some bad experiences with people of different cultures.

don't hate, love and reap the benefits
michaelx

[jonny2mad]

Talking to ex -Muslims a lot of them say that the Muslims they know choose to be unemployed because they either don’t like working for kafirs, or see it as a way to destroy a kafir system by living off the welfare state.
Other reasons are they don’t like the idea of working with a women or even worse under a woman.

This doesn’t apply to all Muslims, but there is a very large number who view things like that.
As to the "they rape our women thing" again there is a problem in that there are lots of rapes where the rapist has said that they did it because the women was unveiled, or where the rapist saw it as a sort of war against non Muslims .

you have lots of Islamic teachers including people who ken Livingston has embraced who have said that women wearing western dress are asking to be raped

this is a article on the subject http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20552

before you dismiss that there is a problem you should talk to some of my friend who are not bnp supporters, but black ex-Muslims who live in the uk .

And to the bnp supporter , the bnp would be against people like ayaan hirshi ali, I visited a board a few days ago and you had some bnp people calling her a wog .

Now culturally hirshi ali is very European, she knew she was basically getting herself a death sentence when she made her film about the bad treatment of women in Islam, she’s a very brave women, but she’s a wog to the bnp supporters because of her skin tone.

I don’t believe in multi-culturalism ,but we have lots of good people in the uk with a different skin colour who are not out to destroy British culture.

I think the bnp are right that Islam is a threat but they are too divisive to be able to be able to do anything about it

[brothwood]

well i can only go off personal experiences, and i am yet to have met a muslim who poses a threat to british society. i am all for multiculturalism, as long as cultural is hung onto by all sides, and we can co-exist mainly peacefully. i saw this happen for many years in all my school and colleges, where white people were the minority, and there wasn't an issue.

you clearly have an issue with Islam, as many of your posts regard this view. i do not have the same view of islam, i do not likemany religions on a whole, but I believe in freedom of belief, whether i agree or not, and i deem it hypocritical of us as a liberal democracy to condem others becasue of a skin colour or belief system.
peace

[spejemelujai]

Hey Brotherwood, after a chat with these two are you unconvinced about the strength of rightwing sentiment in the UK?
Even on the 'Hip' forum we can meet people with views like 'England' and 'jonny' above.
There's a huge undercurrent of tribal racism in this country, which the two main parties continually pander to. It's a real problem in northern mill towns, and all over.
The object of those who encourage mass immigration is firstly cheap labour second divide and rule. Let's not get divided. The interests of poor whites and poor people of other races, are the same, their problems are really the same. Better for those at the top for us to fight eachother.

Hey jonny, you're always refering to people you don't like as nazis, so i s'pose you'll be opposing the fash in Leeds Nov2nd? Bring your mate Cat Stephens. How come you always go to 'ex muslims' for an opinion on islam?
Say, this whole-"they rape our women" has a bit of a KKK flavour. You're right though I'm sure white women would prefer to be raped by white men. Hmmm.
Peace be upon you. X

[brothwood]

okay, maybe i am a bit naive, but i can really only go off my own personal experiences, i could never speak for the whole UK as a whole, as I have only lived in two places.
but where i have lived, Birmingham, and Aber in Wales, i have seen very limited race issues, yes there has been riots etc in bham, but not enough trouble to change the british 'culture'. i truely believe we can co-exist peacefully and hang onto all our own cultures.

politically i do not believe parties such as the BNP are a threat, because we still live in a system where the party in power has almost basic contol over parliament, and the legal system. and i do not believe the BNP will ever reach the stage where they will win a general election.
i hope and prey i am right
peace and love to all x

[Dr Phibes]

and i am yet to have met a muslim who poses a threat to british society
after working with muslims, and having friends who are muslims, I have to tell you - that they confide to me that the people of britain are naive to suppose anything about muslim culture. They are young muslims in their 20's and early 30's who are much more integrated than their parents but still feel alienated. I am reliably informed that in private - most muslims support the idea of confrontational tactics but do not necessarily support wholesale terrorism. I have been told by several muslims that the muslim culture would like to pose a threat but wonder how

[spejemelujai]

Hi,
BNP are on the fringe, but influence mainstream debate, like the greens, the 2 main parties talk green to pick up a few green votes, and talk tough on race and islamaphobia to pick up a few fash votes. A perfect example of this is how the BNP's chances of winning seats were talked up prior to the local elections, spun by labour to take a few votes off the tories who've kind of neglected their right wing of late.
Where ever the BNP organise and gather there is a statistical rise in racial attacks, even more so when they win elections. In northern mill towns it feels like northern ireland.
It's highly functional for politicians to have a 'moral panic' some crisis or other, to be seen to be doing something about, unfortunately for muslims, at the moment it's them.
No wonder muslims feel alienated. innit?

[_chris_]

IF the fuckin BNP try anything round these parts, they'll have a cable street on thier hands :mad:

[spejemelujai]

What's a cable street? a bad thing i hope! ha ha.
I've met some ferocious anti fash punks from scotland, i guess they don't like anything with 'british' in the title.

[Peace-Phoenix]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street

[_chris_]

I've met some ferocious anti fash punks from scotland, i guess they don't like anything with 'british' in the title.

I care not for whether things are Scottish or Brittish, i mean, the scottish working class and the english working class etc. all face the same problems, no use devidin them, eh


its that fact they're fascists that pisses me off http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/icons/newicons/icon14.gif

[England]

you have got to be kidding, right?? WE didn't ask to be a multicultural country?? who is 'we' the pure blood english??? ermm and i believe the fact we are (not perfect) a liberal democracy kind of implies such a situation would occur.

so by your logic, you believe that muslims have the lowest unemplyment rate because its their choice?? or because they cannot get jobs?

they rape our women, haha, murder our people, take our jobs, you are beyond a joke!!! look at the crime figures proportionately for the UK, you will find that white men are the main culprit of crime, and when I mean crime, i mean all crime including fraud because that does have an effect on our economy.

i really do not mean to be offensive to you because I believe in freedom of speech and freedom as a whole even though you do not, but you are clearly not the most intelligent person, and you obviously have just had some bad experiences with people of different cultures.

don't hate, love and reap the benefits
michaelxOh believe me mate I AM intelligent. Muslims have an extremely low employment rate here in Britain because they prefer to claim asylum and take money from tax payers such as myself. I work 45 hrs a week and overtime and I then have 23% of my tax deducted. I wouldn't mind as much if it was being used to improve British hospitals, schools, pensioners etc. But instead the majority of my tax appears to find its way into a foreigners' hands. These people are completely capable of earning money for themselves, contribution to British economy, thanking the nation that is "protecting" them. But no, why should they? They choose to bite the hand that feeds them. They want more. Not only do they want our money, free health care, first in line to get houses, a free car, freedom, they want to impose Sharia Law on us. They want a muslim flag on number 10 Downing Street. Their Koran urges them to forcibly convert people to become muslims. They want to destroy our culture, our heritage and our freedom. If you asked a muslim "are you proud to be British?" I can bet that the majority of them will say no. They just want our land.
The BNP have recognised this and that is the exact reason they are the 2nd biggest party in Barking & Dagenham, the opposition to Labour. Hey the BNP have also had their plans of building 1000 council houses for Britons supported by the majority. Already they're making a difference.

Who would have thought a right wing party such as the BNP would have become the 2nd biggest party in Barking & Dagenham? Do not underestimate them...
In terms of simple popularity, though, I think it's clear that the BNP now enjoys a far higher level of support than their enemies care to admit...... potentially, I suspect, easily enough to form a government already, given that Labour support is only really 20% of the population these days.
But in terms of resources NOT YET.

[lithium]

So did you get lost on your way to the Stormfront forum?http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[_chris_]

Oh believe me mate I AM intelligent. Muslims have an extremely low employment rate here in Britain because they prefer to claim asylum and take money from tax payers such as myself. I work 45 hrs a week and overtime and I then have 23% of my tax deducted. I wouldn't mind as much if it was being used to improve British hospitals, schools, pensioners etc. But instead the majority of my tax appears to find its way into a foreigners' hands. These people are completely capable of earning money for themselves, contribution to British economy, thanking the nation that is "protecting" them. But no, why should they? They choose to bite the hand that feeds them. They want more. Not only do they want our money, free health care, first in line to get houses, a free car, freedom, they want to impose Sharia Law on us. They want a muslim flag on number 10 Downing Street. Their Koran urges them to forcibly convert people to become muslims. They want to destroy our culture, our heritage and our freedom. If you asked a muslim "are you proud to be British?" I can bet that the majority of them will say no. They just want our land.
The BNP have recognised this and that is the exact reason they are the 2nd biggest party in Barking & Dagenham, the opposition to Labour. Hey the BNP have also had their plans of building 1000 council houses for Britons supported by the majority. Already they're making a difference.

Who would have thought a right wing party such as the BNP would have become the 2nd biggest party in Barking & Dagenham? Do not underestimate them...
In terms of simple popularity, though, I think it's clear that the BNP now enjoys a far higher level of support than their enemies care to admit...... potentially, I suspect, easily enough to form a government already, given that Labour support is only really 20% of the population these days.
But in terms of resources NOT YET.


Have you ever seen the breakdown of the budget??? you seem to be quite misinformed.


The UK has an aging worforce, and scotland has a falling population. We are in desperate need of people coming over. And before you come out with any more shite, why not actually site some figures.

[jonny2mad]

Wouldnt it be better looking at why we have a declining population if that’s a problem rather than importing people who in many cases hate the present culture of the uk, and intend changing it by violence, or coming here and out breeding the current inhabitants and changing things that way.

Ignoring things like the Rushdie affair, suicide bombing, the general censorship of criticism of Islam in the media and then encouraging people who want a Islamic state in the uk to come and live here seems to be very silly and the sort of action that will encourage a civil war.

I know you guys seem to have this rainbows and moonbeams view of the world but people don’t all want the same thing, if they did you wouldn’t have theocracies in Afghanistan and Iran ECT.

And what makes you think that if you bring a load of people from somewhere where they choose to live in a theocracy that they wont want to have that sort of system here .

I’ve talked to loads of Muslims that want the uk to be a Islamic theocracy and they believe that you are being guided by Allah to make this happen otherwise how would you be so stupid.

I don’t think you understand Islam which is a political system as well as a religion.

Why do you think we have a declining population and why do you think its a good idea to encourage Muslims to move to the uk , what effect do you think having a higher proportion of the population made up of muslims will have .

Do you think that Islamic countries have a expanding population if so why might they have that, and we have the opposite? Do we view having babies differently? and if they don’t have a expanding population wont encouraging large numbers of people to leave Islamic countries have a negative effect on those countries .

[Peace-Phoenix]

I don't think the issue is about Islam though. Shari'ah Islam is as dangerous as fascism, I'll agree with that. But I think we need to look beyond religion. We have an ageing population because life expectancy has risen and birth rates have declined. This is a trend across developed countries primarily because more women have gone into work and are having fewer children, and also because of better health care and sanitation - more babies survive so people don't need to have as many. Both of these can be seen as positive factors in modern society. It's good people are living longer and it's good women are finding equal opportunities in the labour market. However that does leave us with the problem of a pensions crisis. The government has recently passed a law raising the age of retirement to 68, but this is only a temporary solution. In order to fund an increasing dependant population, you need a larger population of working age.

The benefit of immigration is that most immigrants are young men or working age who need to work so they can send money home to their families. They'll get jobs (often jobs most British people don't want to do), they'll pay taxes and they'll contribute to the economy and to funding state pensions. Yes there will be some people who come here to sponge, though statistics repeatedly demonstrate that this is a tiny minority. Benefits for immigrants are appallingly low, and are certainly no incentive to sponge. It is true that unemployment is higher amongst Muslims in Britain, but many studies have shown that this is more to do with structural factors and discrimination on the part of employers than it is to do with unwillingness to work. One study made hundreds of fake applications to different vacancies using a variety of different names. It showed that those with British sounding names were much more likely to be offered an interview than those with foreign sounding names where both applicants had identical credentials. You also make the mistake of confusing immigrants with Muslims. Many Muslims in the country are second or third generation, were born here, and have never even been to the country that their parents or grandparents hailed from.

I think the religion issue is a seperate one. Religious fundamentalisms are a problem in the world, but I doubt the argument can be won through combatative methods such as those demonstrated by the BNP. Moreover the BNP use the Islam issue as a front because they can't legally target 'Pakis' or 'Niggers' anymore. Their target isn't a religious minority, but ethnic minorities. They are still fundamentally the thugs of the National Front dressed up for the modern age, and many in its leadership are convicted violent criminals, Nazis, anti-semites and Holocaust deniers. Incidentally the council housing plans were put together by the leading Labour group on the council. England, I suggest you read your party's website more carefully, even they'll concede that. And while you're looking at their ethics, you might wonder why they've repeatedly been engaged in backhand deals with Islamic groups to further the causes of both parties. The Voice Of Freedom was printed at a Saudi owned printing firm, and Nick Griffin has visited Colonol Gaddafi in Libya, who at one time funded the National Front in an effort to undermine the British state. This shows a remarkable degree of hypocrisy and opportunism on the part of populist fascist parties like the BNP. Fascism should have died with Hitler, but it seems people are all too willing to forget the lessons of history.

[jonny2mad]

England you didn’t answer what I said about ayaan hirshi ali , I think the bnp are using their dislike for Islam as a cover for racism generally .

They still consider her a wog even though there is no one in Europe more anti Islam than her

What is being British to you ?

I have a family that is part Chinese by marriage none of my Chinese /British relatives have been on the dole, most are self employed pay taxes , never had any trouble with the police, three of them at least have been in the British armed forces, ones in Iraq at the moment one was disabled I think in Malaya .

If you look at British history we have had waves of people coming in for a long time , we had a very big empire, lots of the non white people we have in the uk came in at the end of that empire, many of them were the people who were most loyal to the British empire and would have been in danger if they stayed behind in their original countries .

The bnp don’t see those people as British what causes them not to be British and say someone descended from the Romans or Goths to be.

[_chris_]

Its a question of attitudes at the end of the day



on the whole, are white oflks prepared to accept immigrants?

are immigrants prepared to integrate?


i think the answer to the second question is yes

teh first one is yet to nbe fully answered

[spejemelujai]

Hi this thread is about opposing fascism.
Muslims are a 3% minority in this country, a small proportion of whom would support an islamic theocracy in the UK. This is not going to happen. Fascism on the other hand is a real problem, wherever they organise, there is an increase in racial violence.
x

[jonny2mad]

hmmm could you show me simular numbers being killed by neo nazis to the number of people being killed by jihadis , do neo nazis run nuclear armed countrys on our borders or anywhere .

the police have caught people planing a number of major bombing attacks, the last being a attack by jihadis on the ministry of sound where they could have killed thousands of people

your heartless response to the possibility that there was a problem of secterian rape showed that your just as racist as our bnp supporter, except your bias is against a different race as you dont seem to care about white or non muslim rape victims .

look at the situation in northern ireland the catholics there were a minority, and the uk govement wasnt able to stop ira knee cappings were they even with the british army on the ground , you had another system of de facto law and order in northern ireland much like we seem to have in the uk .

salman rushdie cant live freely in the uk with your harmless minority of muslims as it is, hes been in hiding for nearly twenty years , ayaan hirshi ali cant live openly in holland in fact she is going to have to live in the states.

the biggest danger of fascism comes from islamofascists who groups like unite against fascism seem to want to embrace

chris try marrying a muslim girl and not converting to islam, there have been cases of people being tortured to death for dating muslims in the uk , I really think there are lots of people who do not want to integrate who have come to the uk because Ive talked to loads of them .

islamic scripture says that muslim women cant marry non muslims , you allready have calls for seperate laws for muslims in lots of countrys in europe .

if you want to talk about nazis have you been following the plans to bring in special badges for non muslims to wear like the nazi yellow stars for jews but this time not in germany in iran .

the story is being played down by the iranians, but they have a very long background of this sort of discriminatory laws, and the top cleric in the country says that non muslims are ritually unclean .

the taliban had simular laws where non muslims mainly the hindu minority had to wear special badges so muslims could avoid them .

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5519

if you have a shia muslim who supports what the top shia cleric and most other shia clerics says that non muslims are ritually unclean, and it would be a good idea for them to wear special badges so the faithful can avoid coming into contact with them. do you really think that person means to integrate in the uk ?

[spejemelujai]

Ah yes, everyone's a racist but you aren't they?
It must be tough for a liberal tollerant chap like you to live in this country.
When we've argued before, i've always tried to counter your comments with verifiable facts, you seem to ignore them and start another tirade of opinions.
so here goes:

"hmmm could you show me simular numbers being killed by neo nazis to the number of people being killed by jihadis ,"

Forty-seven race murders in Britain since Macpherson
By IRR News Team
3 August 2005, 3:00pm
Figures released today by the Institute of Race Relations show that there have been forty-seven murders with a known or suspected racial element since the publication of the Macpherson report in February 1999.

So have you got any evidence to support your claims that more people are killed in UK by Jihadis than in racist attacks? Show us!
Perhaps these names ring a little bell Anthony walker, stephen lawrence, hassan ali, this is not all one way though brown kids are killing white kids too, kriss donald, gavin hopley, ross parker.
I'm saying this whole war on terror/class of civilisations bullshit is dividing us, we shouldn't fight each other.
I'm not heartless about rape, no one should be raped. I'm dead against it. It does happen, but i think that muslims don't do it any more than any other group, have you got evidence to the contrary, please, lets see it.
I know the reality of living with muslim neighbours, they're on the whole good people, i'd far rather live in a poor muslim neighbourhood, than a poor white neighbourhood, because it's safer. That's my experience.
I think it's awful that non muslims are suffering in iran, they should not be treated so. It does have parrallels with nazism, but it is not the same thing. I think, just as you say, it's terrible that authors and film makers are threatened by british muslims, it souldn't happen.
There are 3% muslims in this country, there's not gonna be a jihadi revolution.
I'm convinced you must live somewhere that you never meet muslims, and so are able to hold these fanciful views unchallenged. Norwich maybe?
But as i say this thread is about opposing fascism, you seem to have turned it round to your favourite hobby horse your fear of muslims.
So let's drop the hype hysteria moral panic.
I asked you, as you hate those fascists so, will you be joining us to oppose them in Leeds in November, or are you too scared to leave the house incase you get beheaded by jihadis? there's alot of it about, apparently.
peace be upon you. X

[jonny2mad]

What I said was show me similar numbers being killed by neo Nazis to jihadi killings, it wasn’t limited to the uk and I brought in the fact that Islamic fundamentalists control nuclear weapons and countries something neo Nazis do not do therefore they are more of a threat



But just in the uk if you wish



Your forty seven deaths are they all caused by neo Nazis or does that figure include all murder based on race in six years if they are all caused by members of the bnp well that would still be still less killed in six years than killed in the recent suicide attacks in London which killed 52 people.





You do seem heartless about rape if the victims are targeted because they are non Muslims or maybe white.



Lets put my case in another way ,if I said that lots of Baptist preachers were saying that a women not wearing Baptist clothing was asking to be raped or that someone dressed like a Muslim was asking to be raped .



And then I linked to a article that showed pictures of people who have been attacked and figures, and that certain Baptist countries had the concept of honour rapes where you had local judges sentencing young girls to be gang raped and statements from rapists that blamed their culture for their rapes in the west as a form of defence



Would you automatically dismiss my case or is it because your looking at things through the eyes of a racist, but in your case a racist that dismisses the possibility that black or brown people might be involved in cases of sectarian rapes against in some cases white people .





As I said earlier I am not saying that all Muslims are rapists just that you do have a concept of sectarian rape in lots of Islamic societies this can be directed against other sects in Islam as well as against westerners



At the moment in Iraq you have rape of either Sunni or Shia women as part of the ongoing war between Shia and Sunni Islam .



Now the media report on bombing attacks in the west so you can see that there are some people who want to kill non Muslims, how is it so far fetched that there might be some that wish to rape non Muslims





http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=21502







http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/readarticle.asp?ID=20535&p=1





http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20552





You say you think its terrible that authors are killed who are critical about Islam well that’s good I’m sure they feel happy you feel bad about it, but that wont stop it happening will it .



Whether you like it or not we live in a situation that you risk your life by being a serious critic of Islam so you have a de facto blasphemy law that says don’t say anything that Muslims don’t like or you will be ritually killed.



None of the media dared publish the cartoons of Mohammed and even the protest march in favour of free expression was to scared to allow examples of the cartoon they were supposed to be supporting.



Some newspapers wanted to publish but the police told them they wouldn’t be able to protect them, so much for freedom of the press



And we have this situation with what you say is 3% of the population, it isn’t just numbers its passion and will that decide what sort of society you have.

Neo Nazis haven’t been able to stop people making cartoons of Hitler but Muslims have been able to stop people making cartoons of Mohammed





As I pointed out you don’t need to have a majority to have the start of de facto Islamic law and the slide towards Islamic rule ,as in the example of knee capping in Northern Ireland by a catholic minority constantly monitored by the British army





And the situation in Iran isn’t like Nazi Germany; Nazi Germany only oppressed minorities for less than twenty years with Iran you have oppression of non Muslims for far longer and its part of a worldwide oppression in Islamic majority countries that is happening today.





at present I live in the west country but I have lived in Saudi Arabia my father was Arabic speaking engineer who nearly converted to islam , but if you want I can introduce you to hundreds of people who think like me about Islam most of them are black or brown ex Muslims some live in the west some in the Islamic world some still have to pretend to be muslims because of the threat to apostates .



as to whether or not I will attend this march it appears to have taken place already .



The website the article about the march is on is socialist worker, the people who called ayaan hirshi Ali a women who is in hiding for making a film about the abuse of women a bully.





but it seemed to have been organised by unite against fascism and in the original article has quotations from Weyman Bennett a person I have personally met after not getting any response to complaints to uaf via email .



And who told me that he was happy to have the man who organised the campaign against salman Rushdie and who collected money for jihadis in his organisation in a special list of anti fascists supporters .





I told Weyman Bennett what I thought of his group being linked to islamofascists to his face as did some other people who don’t like a organisation that says its against fascism embracing religious bootboys .



He said that the reason he was embracing the man who organised the campaign against Rushdie and collected money for and was linked to jihadis was to get more numbers to fight the bnp.



I think he and his organisation is full of shit and totally fake, I think they have shown themselves to be a racist organisation in that they embrace fascists if they have brown or black skin.



and that if people really cared about people like Rushdie they should reject the people who supported his death, and any organisations that support or ally themselves with those people



you already knew that uaf have embraced the man who drove rushdie into hiding because we talked about it in a earlier thread and you said and I quote “ Yes it's dodgy but i'm happy to associate with anyone who hates the nazis, in order to oppose them.”



So you seem to take the same view as your fellow racist Weyman Bennett who seems to think Nazis are ok if they have black or brown skins or are part of a non western religion.

and you may say its terrible that authors are attacked, but if you are happy to associate with the people who attack them or that ally with the people that attack them your words of support for rushdie and for free speech are so much hot air .



I personally think that the people who supported calls for rushdies death should have been jailed for incitement to murder not on a list of honoured anti fascists



I feel sorry for any people taken in by unite against fascism, and would like to see a complete change of leadership and direction where they cut all links with islamofascist scum



Until that happens I would not be able to support unite against fascism, to me it would be a betrayal of people like salman Rushdie and people killed by jihadis murderers.



This is a great pity.



if any of the people who reading this choose to go to a unite against fascism event and see anyone from unite against fascism,



Ask them why they have Dr. Siddiqui of the

Muslim Parliament on their list of UAF supporters ,would they have Himmler as a anti fascist



This is where they have dr siddiqui

http://www.uaf.org.uk/aboutUAF.asp?choice=4





why do they have a man who was known as contemptuous of anything western, and whose hero was ayatollah Khomeini, who supported and collected money for jihadis all his life and set up a separate “Muslim parliament” .

Who wrote books on how to get theocratic states worldwide, and was the man who went to Khomeini with the idea of a fatwa against salman Rushdie in the first place on their special list of anti fascists .



I would like to know who is paying for unite against fascism and whether that has something to do with the people they choose to embrace ?.



if there are other organisations that are truly anti fascist and do not support islamofascism and religious rule yes I would be happy to attend their events .



And to England if you read this you have to ask yourself are you anti Islamic fascism or is this just a cover for racism.

look deeply at ayaan hirshi ali and the other black people in Europe who hate Islamic rule more than nick griffin and the bnp, are you against them because of their skin tone because I don’t see that they are in anyway a threat to British or European culture.

By opposing political Islam on a racial basis you lose a lot of the potential support that you could have