God

[Autentique]

God.. when we think of the word, many things come to people's mind. Divine, powerful, religion. To me God is just the imaginary friend of the people who believe in it.

What I mean by this, is that God is created by the humans, not the opposite he did not created us. We.. well the people who believe in him, created him because they felt the need to. The felt the need to "tell" someone what they couldn't say to anyone else, the felt the need to have "hope" on something outside of themselves, the felt the need to determine whats "right and wrong", they felt the need to ask for "forgiveness". But all this.. they are doing it with their own selves. It just feels more hopeful to people that when they are praying someone is listening, and that they are not talking to their selves.

So God is in peoples mind and where their mind wants to put it. I'm not saying he doesn't exist. What I'm saying is that he exist if you want to, and he cannot do anything for you, all you have to do it yourself. Your actions have led you to where you are today. You and you only, and sometimes that can be a lot to accept. Because life isn't always great, and we are our worst judge, and is hard to believe we are all alone in this world, and the good and the bad things that happen are just a consequence of our action.

God exists in believer imagination as a way to get thru life. To feel safe, forgiven, to not feel alone.

[LMoffet1]

I sort of feel the same way. I've always felt that God was an invention of the human mind for security. People feel safe when they think that there is an almighty being out there watching over their every move. When people do not have enough faith in themselves and their own actions, they seek that comfort elsewhere in something or someone that I personally do not believe exists. But hey, it's whatever works for each individual.

[Razorofoccam]

God.. when we think of the word, many things come to people's mind. Divine, powerful, religion. To me God is just the imaginary friend of the people who believe in it.

What I mean by this, is that God is created by the humans, not the opposite he did not created us. We.. well the people who believe in him, created him because they felt the need to. The felt the need to "tell" someone what they couldn't say to anyone else, the felt the need to have "hope" on something outside of themselves, the felt the need to determine whats "right and wrong", they felt the need to ask for "forgiveness". But all this.. they are doing it with their own selves. It just feels more hopeful to people that when they are praying someone is listening, and that they are not talking to their selves.

So God is in peoples mind and where their mind wants to put it. I'm not saying he doesn't exist. What I'm saying is that he exist if you want to, and he cannot do anything for you, all you have to do it yourself. Your actions have led you to where you are today. You and you only, and sometimes that can be a lot to accept. Because life isn't always great, and we are our worst judge, and is hard to believe we are all alone in this world, and the good and the bad things that happen are just a consequence of our action.

God exists in believer imagination as a way to get thru life. To feel safe, forgiven, to not feel alone.
Autentique

God..Is the desire to understand what reality is.
Be it a concept, a theory or a religion.

We dont know yet..
We are ignorant

So be it. Who said we must know everything.?
Not even god can know everything.
it is not physically or logically possible.

Occam

[Vae Victus]

"Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?"
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

I'm sorry to just post a big quote as a response, but when someone has already stated something more eloquently than you ever could, what else can you do?

“Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.” -- Marx


I, personally, no longer find it necessary to address the question of whether something called a god exists--there does not--just as I no longer ponder about the meaning or existence of a square-circle. Both ideas are inherently nonsense. And the only reason anyone takes one idea more seriously than the other is because they believe they've found, as always, the fountain of youth!

[POPthree13]

I, personally, no longer find it necessary to address the question of whether something called a god exists--there does not--just as I no longer ponder about the meaning or existence of a square-circle. Both ideas are inherently nonsense. And the only reason anyone takes one idea more seriously than the other is because they believe they've found, as always, the fountain of youth!
The greatest nonsense is dismissing an idea you can not fully understand.
I agree that most of what religion teaches us are ways to bring the self to a better state of mind. I find no clues to the existance of God in religion. Religion is a set of practices and, in my opinion, has little to nothing to do with God.

So because of religions faults God must not exist? Interesting logic... I think that careful study of the universe, of life, of energy suggest some Other force may exist. Do I pray to it? No. Does it help me deal with life? No. Do I dismiss it becasue I can't define it? No. When you can explain the whole of the mytery going on here I will concede that all that exists is what we see and know. Until then I would reserve the right to consider that just maybe we don't know it all just yet.

[Vae Victus]

Do I dismiss it becasue I can't define it? No. When you can explain the whole of the mytery going on here I will concede that all that exists is what we see and know. Until then I would reserve the right to consider that just maybe we don't know it all just yet.
The better question is, how is it possible to not dismiss something that has no definition? I wholeheartedly agree that humans don't know everything about the universe, and probably never could. Does that simple fact give me enough evidence to create a God of the Gaps? Of course not...

[POPthree13]

True enough. However, take for example dark matter. It is a theoretical entity based on gaps in our understanding. We can't define it because we don't know what it is (yet), but few (if any) who study astronomy doubts it's existence.

I am not saying that God should be a blanket term for things we do not understand. I am saying that we know a lot about how the universe arranges itself and there is little (or no) evidence that life could have arranged itself into the complex creatures we have become alone. There is (in my opinion) evidence that there must be some additional force out there to account for our very directed, very precise, very self-supporting system of evolution. Do the math, figure the probability and it ends up looking like the gigantic organism of life on this planet may be the result of a system that doesn't play by the simple general chaos/gravity/sun cycle rules.

Science has tried again and again to start life from primordial pools, to explain how natural selection and genetic mutation have aided our development. Our experiments at creating a life base have failed miserably and knowing how the mechanisms of life work hasn't given us an ounce of understanding into how it started, why it prospered and how, in a universe of chaos and deconstruction it has built, complexified and pursued a direction without ever knowing where it was going.

I don't think life is a one time bang. I don't think a 'God' created it. I think it is a system which probably permeates our universe and the framework of that system is worth thinking about (for me.)

[Kharakov]

So be it. Who said we must know everything.?
Not even god can know everything.
it is not physically or logically possible.

Joker.....

[Kharakov]

And the only reason anyone takes one idea more seriously than the other is because they believe they've found, as always, the fountain of youth!
Quite possibly they have... and the bitchy pessimentalists like Kneecheez and shoppinhorror just are bitchin because they either found it and like being a bitch, or they won't acknowledge it and have a reason to be bitchy. Shit, someone gives you life and you bitch at them and run away because of your own foolsih ideas about how life is? Probably feel pretty bad about yourself....

[Razorofoccam]

[QUOTE=POPthree13]Our experiments at creating a life base have failed miserably and knowing how the mechanisms of life work hasn't given us an ounce of understanding into how it started, why it prospered and how, in a universe of chaos and deconstruction it has built, complexified and pursued a direction without ever knowing where it was going.
QUOTE]

Pop 3 13

Ummm

Humans do not know how the mechaisms of life work.
[only partially do we understand]

When we do understand..

We will make life.
Just as we make toasters.

Life is not sacred..just VERY VERY COMPLEX.
And this is why many call it sacred...
Cause the making of it seems beyond us.

Not so.
We simply use 'gods' method.. That is..
Understanding first.
Creation second.

[Razorofoccam]

Joker.....
Kharkov

Thank you. The joker is the best card in the pack.

Occam

[Kharakov]

Kharkov

Thank you. The joker is the best card in the pack.

Occam
But of course, it can be any card at times, and play the fool as well.

Kharkov

[Razorofoccam]

But of course, it can be any card at times, and play the fool as well.

KharkovKharkov

Correct.
And the fool sometimes sees what others do not.

Einstein was called a fool.
To be the fool card is a position of strength..

When all else cannot understand.
The fool may be the wisest of us.

Occam

PS

A saying goes
"from you, that is a compliment"

Thank you

[Kharakov]

And the fool sometimes sees what others do not.There is such thing as playing the fool (pretending to be a fool) when one isn't... comedy.

A saying goes
"from you, that is a compliment"

Thank you
You are welcome :). As the saying goes "I pity the fool"

B.A. Kharakovus

[Razorofoccam]

You are welcome :). As the saying goes "I pity the fool"

B.A. Kharakovus
Kharkov

"I pity the fool"

Why?

Occam

[Kharakov]

Kharkov

"I pity the fool"

Why?

Occam
Mr. T played someone named "B.A. Barracus" on the 80's tv show "The A-Team" who always said "I pity the fool". It became Mr. T's trademark saying, sometimes he is in commercials sayin "I pity the fool". I just think its a hilarious saying- cuz truthfully, if someone is a fool they will eventually grow out of it. No need to pity someone going through a necessary stage of spiritual development.

[geckopelli]

Kharakov,

you are blind to the world around you and naive beyond belief.

a preacher with zero knowledge of your own god.

if occam is a joker, perhaps he created your god, for she is surely a joke.

[Kharakov]

Kharakov,

you are blind to the world around you and naive beyond belief. "yeah, yeah, fire!!! fire!! fire!! huhuh, huhhuh, huhhuhhuh, fire's cool!"
You are great and wise and should be my leader.

a preacher with zero knowledge of your own god.Yeah. Hero to Zero... thats me... yeah.. cool.

if occam is a joker, perhaps he created your god, for she is surely a joke. My God is an IT thank you. A very dirty minded IT at that. Talk dirty to me baby!

[geckopelli]

Is it your intent to disrupt every thread in the A&A forum with your hellfire lies devil?

[Kharakov]

Is it your intent to disrupt every thread in the A&A forum with your hellfire lies devil?
Not at all, I intend to spread light and disease (heart disease). Or one of the two. Actually I am very serious about some things, however I cannot take fools seriously unless it is with a seriously hardcore sense of humor. Have a relaxing heart attack.

[geckopelli]

We're not in this forum to discuss your version of christianity.

Who cares?

Go to the christain forum and argue with the rest of the ignorant, fool.

[Autentique]

I agree.. you have made the thread lose all its meaning.. good work

[Kharakov]

All I want is for God to suck my dick. Why are you being so mean to me? Why! Why God Why!!!!!! Fuckin A. If I offend an atheist because I want God to suck my cock then that is some wierd ass athiest. I am not your run of the mill christian.... I am a dirty bastard. You know it. This thread has more TRUE meaning in it then any other thread out there, because I write the truth. Gimme some more love bitch!!!

[geckopelli]

The only thing offensive about you is your claim to be a human being.

All you are is anti-intellectual- deliberatley disrupting resonable threads.

Get lost, or I'll move you be banned. Don't think I'll have a problem getting a second.

[Kharakov]

The only thing offensive about you is your claim to be a human being.

All you are is anti-intellectual- deliberatley disrupting resonable threads.

Get lost, or I'll move you be banned. Don't think I'll have a problem getting a second.Aight, you are offended by what comes from my heart. That shows me that you lack faith in God. You actually came in to this thread and disrupted friendly banter between me and another member with your wild accusations. I might spit shit that you can't handle, but its cuz I have a better grasp of the truth than you do. Do not be angry, instead learn true wisdom from the words I spit.

I actually thought you were enjoying our little thing until you started threatening to have me banned. I gave you credit for wisdom you do not have. I am sorry to have offended one who lacks understanding of what Love really is, although I feel pain is necessary for your spiritual development.

[Bug_Man]

Aight, you are offended by what comes from my heart. That shows me that you lack faith in God. You actually came in to this thread and disrupted friendly banter between me and another member with your wild accusations. I might spit shit that you can't handle, but its cuz I have a better grasp of the truth than you do. Do not be angry, instead learn true wisdom from the words I spit.

I actually thought you were enjoying our little thing until you started threatening to have me banned. I gave you credit for wisdom you do not have. I am sorry to have offended one who lacks understanding of what Love really is, although I feel pain is necessary for your spiritual development.


Doesn't seem that smackopelli has the power to ban you. Does she?

[LuciferSam]

I quote from the booklet to Jethro Tull's Aqualung...

--
In the beginning Man created
God; and in the image of
Man created he him.

And Man gave unto God a multitude
of names, that he might be Lord over
all the earth when it was suited
to Man.

And on the seven millionth day
Man rested and did lean heavily
on his God and saw that it was good.

And Man formed Aqualung of the
dust of the ground, and a host of
others likened unto his kind.

And these lesser men Man did cast
into the void. And some were burned;
and some were put apart from their
kind.

And Man become the God that he had
created and with his miracles did rule
over all the earth.

But as these things did come to pass,
the Spirit that did cause Man to create
his God lived on within all Men: even
within Aqualung.

And Man saw it not.

But for Christ's sake he'd better start looking.
--

Amen.

[Kharakov]

Doesn't seem that smackopelli has the power to ban you. Does she?Definitely an entetaining personality however. Yeah, only God can ban me.

[themnax]

the aqualung quote says aligoricly more or less what i was thinking
i think people like to think they know more then they do

there is a point that both fanatics and athiest miss
and that is the very real possibility that what if
the nontangable were totaly nonhierarchal at all?

sure there's more to everything then what we see when we look at it
and very possibly very real nontangable forces and beings
and if i go with my feelings instead of limiting my words
to thoughts i can defend intillectualy then i feel very
certain that there are.

but the thing is, well what if there really is no ligitimate
heirarchy among the nontangable.

maybe something wonderful that loves us and wishes us well
maybe powerful, unique, 'big' in some sense, but i get this
feeling that there are lots of other equaly loving and well
meaning nontangble 'people', (i call anything creative and self awaire a person), who may or may not be a lot less 'powerful', 'big', whathaveyou, but wish no harm and and may be not 'ruled over' by anyone or anything.

so this idea of a one god having created everything and all that
well even that is possible of course, but when you look at the diversity that exists, to me this suggests the work of far more then one single awareness or even natural proccess.

now the other thing. the bit about wanting to be worshipped. i think most of that is something humans came up with for their own reasons, though of course anything that exists and is awaire of its existence probably appreaciates being loved, and i don't mean to take away from that.

but the idea that it would want us to pay it some kind of extortion
however pretty smelling a language that might be expressed in
is just not consistent with any concept of something honestly loving us and wishing us well.

so i have this concept of spirit people loving us and wishing us well
but not really having anything to do with any one kind of way of worship or belief

that these are like two entirely seperate kinds of things
belief and whatever way nontangableness actualy is
that there's really no reason to expect very much of any sort
of resemblence between them

=^^=
.../\...

[Razorofoccam]

Quote Kharakov

"I am sorry to have offended one who lacks understanding of what Love really is, although I feel pain is necessary for your spiritual development."


"All I want is for God to suck my dick."

[Jedi]

God.. when we think of the word, many things come to people's mind. Divine, powerful, religion. To me God is just the imaginary friend of the people who believe in it.

What I mean by this, is that God is created by the humans, not the opposite he did not created us. We.. well the people who believe in him, created him because they felt the need to. The felt the need to "tell" someone what they couldn't say to anyone else, the felt the need to have "hope" on something outside of themselves, the felt the need to determine whats "right and wrong", they felt the need to ask for "forgiveness". But all this.. they are doing it with their own selves. It just feels more hopeful to people that when they are praying someone is listening, and that they are not talking to their selves.

So God is in peoples mind and where their mind wants to put it. I'm not saying he doesn't exist. What I'm saying is that he exist if you want to, and he cannot do anything for you, all you have to do it yourself. Your actions have led you to where you are today. You and you only, and sometimes that can be a lot to accept. Because life isn't always great, and we are our worst judge, and is hard to believe we are all alone in this world, and the good and the bad things that happen are just a consequence of our action.

God exists in believer imagination as a way to get thru life. To feel safe, forgiven, to not feel alone.
So... By referring to your statements, we can say that God is the "self" with in us, but then who is that thing that is actually apologizing? the one that is actually trying to ask for forgiveness, or asking for help? - Another self.

So, we can assume that "we" - the other self... are actually trying to ask for the forgiveness of the "Self", which is all forgiving, all good, all kind etc.

Therefore, God is actually the higher self with in us, but there is one thing that we assume- and that is that it is an illusion. It is actually not.

How can we say that it is not? - it is with in everyone thats why. Whether you do something or you don't do something- all that is dictated by your consciousness...

Your consciousness dictates if you are forgiven or not, your very own consciousness- the all conscious self tells you whether to do something or not-tries to guide you when you are having a difficulty and this is the same consciousness that everyone has.

How can we say that? -we are all alive, thats how.

So, basically God= Conscious self that exists in everyone, in everything, everywhere.

We are the limited selves that act while staying under the guidance of the conscious self.

consciousness is everywhere, and its proof is life. Life is everywhere, therefore consciousness is everywhere and where there is consciousness, there is growth.

So, therefore, I believe that the supreme conscious self- that exists everywhere is God, we the limited selves that exist in a limited sphere of consciousness are souls.

We act, under His guidance and He is the supreme. :D

[mother_nature's_son]

Aight, you are offended by what comes from my heart. That shows me that you lack faith in God. You actually came in to this thread and disrupted friendly banter between me and another member with your wild accusations. I might spit shit that you can't handle, but its cuz I have a better grasp of the truth than you do. Do not be angry, instead learn true wisdom from the words I spit.
An interjection of my opinion-

Some human minds (notably, scientific minds) cannot rely on a foundation of faith in an imaginary being for their understanding of reality. This is no mistake and a fault of none, it simply is. This does not mean these minds are less capable of knowing truth.

What is 'the truth'?

'The truth' is subjective because reality is subjective.
In light of this, I feel no need to make a definition of 'the truth'.

When you are not telling yourself what is 'the truth', you get a better idea of the nature of this concept- ‘the truth'.

Perhaps telling yourself 'the truth', actually prevents you from really finding it.

?

[POPthree13]

As you point out reality is subjective, so all minds, even scientific ones, rely on faith in 'something' to generate information - however far from truth that may be.


I agree one must first accept that there is little we can point to as 'truth' before we can begin to learn anything about it. Both science and religion pretend to vend truth, but neither are remotely prepared to offer it.

[POPthree13]

'God' whatever you choose to define that as is, in my opinion, embodied in all of life.

Perhaps God = the sum of universal consciousness.

[FreakyJoeMan]

Why are "God" and the "Universe" always considered two seperate entities? When you think about it, what do people usually associate with "God"; Omniescense(sp?), Omnipotence, and Omnipresence. That sounds like the "Universe" to me. You can't do stuff that defy the universe's "Laws", you can't go outside the universe!

[POPthree13]

Valid observation indeed. However I am not sure how much the inert stuff matters anyway. Inert stuff is well... inert. The magic of the universe appears to be tied up in life.

[Jedi]

Why are "God" and the "Universe" always considered two seperate entities? When you think about it, what do people usually associate with "God"; Omniescense(sp?), Omnipotence, and Omnipresence. That sounds like the "Universe" to me. You can't do stuff that defy the universe's "Laws", you can't go outside the universe!
Why aren' t they two seperate entities? In the vedas and other scriptures - not just the bible, it is said that there are many parallel universes apart from this. The scientists today are discovering another parallel universe- I saw it on the science channel.. on tuesday night- it was great, watch the astronomy shows they are so cool!..

Anyway...
So there are parallel universes, and there are many other things in the world that we haven't discovered yet using the scientific method.

So, there are many things that are outside of this universe , and ofcourse God is also outside of this universe.

In the vedic literatures it is said that if the material nature is the mother, then God is the father of this creation and living beings are the products.

Living beings are everywhere and in this universe and other material universes, they are under firm control of the mother nature. The only way they will be free , is if they grow up!.

[FreakyJoeMan]

What are these things that are "outside" the universe? Since the universe contains everything, and IS everything. You are a part of the universe, this computer I'm using is part of the universe, the universe cannot be defined as jus an environment, since is both what we reside in, AND what we are.

[mother_nature's_son]

As you point out reality is subjective, so all minds, even scientific ones, rely on faith in 'something' to generate information - however far from truth that may be.
Science is basically faith in reality.
How could this be false? -If reality is a supernatural deception?

[Razorofoccam]

Science is basically faith in reality.
How could this be false? -If reality is a supernatural deception?MN's son

Yes. What is truth if we say our senses cannot see directly..
WHAT IS.
WHAT IS . IS that which exists if humans did not.
Our senses percieve 'a' reality.
In this forum. We take as granted that what our senses see.
And what we define reality to be by that observation.
Is directly related to WHAT IS.
[we do not live in a matrix]

If you suggest that we should seriously accept that we DO live in a matrix.
Then all bets are off.
NONE [no humans] will ever know reality. [by that position]

Both those of religion, and those of reason. And any mix of the two.
MUST agree that reality is as our senses dictate.
Reality is not a supernatural deception.
What would be the point?

THIS, is the only faith we must endure.
Beyond this.. Faith is a belief in what cannot be shown to exist.
[religion and human opinion]

You suggest that because we all must agree that perception is not an accurate transcription of WHAT IS.
Then ALL is faith.
False.

WE percieve. That is fact. Not faith.
We exist. that is FACT. Not faith.
And because we have ABSOLUTE knowing that we exist.
We can start from that FACT.
What we percieve and how we exist , we have yet to make an accurate definition of.
Yet show occam a single example of gravity not existing.
You cannot. And no-one else can.

Phenomena exist.
Are these phenomena 'fed' to us by a higher power.?
So all must be faith.

Or do we actually percieve these phenomena through our own facualties.?

Occam IS the razor of occam. There is no deception.
What we observe are our perceptions of what exists in reality.

Faith. Is desire. [ a wish for a thing to be]

Occam

[geckopelli]

What are these things that are "outside" the universe? Since the universe contains everything, and IS everything. You are a part of the universe, this computer I'm using is part of the universe, the universe cannot be defined as jus an environment, since is both what we reside in, AND what we are.
I believe you've got it!

[Jedi]

What are these things that are "outside" the universe? Since the universe contains everything, and IS everything. You are a part of the universe, this computer I'm using is part of the universe, the universe cannot be defined as jus an environment, since is both what we reside in, AND what we are.You misunderstood me... i apologize, because now I realize that my definition of the "universe" is different than yours.

when i say 'My' , I mean "our" - as in Indian definition of the universe.

In sanskrit a universe is referred to as Brahmaand, which means "that which is created by brahma- the creator."

What I was probably trying to say in the other post is that, there are many creators, but the ultimate reality is the one who also creates the creators.

There are many creations- so the universe can also be said to be just an environment.

From a religious perspective, you are not your body, you are the soul with in. The simple proof to this would be your consciousness... no matter what changes occur on the outside, you on the inside- at a "consciousness level" remain the same.

Therefore , you are not part of the universe. However, the machine that you control- ie: your body , is part of the universe.

You are nothing more than just a mini controller of a limited environment.

[FreakyJoeMan]

"From a religious perspective, you are not your body, you are the soul with in. The simple proof to this would be your consciousness... no matter what changes occur on the outside, you on the inside- at a "consciousness level" remain the same."

Until a happenin in the "physical world" causes great enuf damage to my "physical body" to end my conciousness. Conciousness still is confined by the universe, and as it is, the physicality of the universe. If we didn't have physical forms, we couldn't have conciousness

The ghost in the machine, and yet, we have levals of conciousness, from the hyperconciousness induced by some drugs, to being a vegtable. And our "conciousness" does change, as our physical selves encounter situations, "live" the conciousness that dwells within us changes accordingly to encompass these new experiances. When I was a baby, I was concious of my room, and my parents, and that was bout it. Now, at the age of sixteen, I know bout the rest of the nation, the world, the universe, to certain degrees. My conciousness expanded as my experiance of this world grew. So you see, the physical world has a direct and immediate impact on our conciousness.

[Jedi]

"From a religious perspective, you are not your body, you are the soul with in. The simple proof to this would be your consciousness... no matter what changes occur on the outside, you on the inside- at a "consciousness level" remain the same."

Until a happenin in the "physical world" causes great enuf damage to my "physical body" to end my conciousness. Conciousness still is confined by the universe, and as it is, the physicality of the universe. If we didn't have physical forms, we couldn't have conciousness

The ghost in the machine, and yet, we have levals of conciousness, from the hyperconciousness induced by some drugs, to being a vegtable. And our "conciousness" does change, as our physical selves encounter situations, "live" the conciousness that dwells within us changes accordingly to encompass these new experiances. When I was a baby, I was concious of my room, and my parents, and that was bout it. Now, at the age of sixteen, I know bout the rest of the nation, the world, the universe, to certain degrees. My conciousness expanded as my experiance of this world grew. So you see, the physical world has a direct and immediate impact on our conciousness.
I was talking about the consciousness , that I am "me". I do not change no matter what. Also, I agree with the fact that my intelligence is confined by the universe, but not my consciousness.

What you are talking about is true, how much you know, what you know and how you perceive things depend on the experiences that you have gone through, however they do not change the inner you- that still keeps circling around "me".

[Nathan11]

I have a perfect idea...stop arguing about who's right or wrong and just live and let live. Let them do their own thing as long as they don't impose on your free will!


Not trying to preach, just an idea.

[mother_nature's_son]

WE percieve. That is fact. Not faith.
We exist. that is FACT. Not faith.
And because we have ABSOLUTE knowing that we exist.
We can start from that FACT.
What we percieve and how we exist , we have yet to make an accurate definition of.
Yet show occam a single example of gravity not existing.
You cannot. And no-one else can.

Phenomena exist.
Are these phenomena 'fed' to us by a higher power.?
So all must be faith.

Or do we actually percieve these phenomena through our own facualties.?

Occam IS the razor of occam. There is no deception.
What we observe are our perceptions of what exists in reality.

Faith. Is desire. [ a wish for a thing to be]Thank you, Occam. You conceptualize very well my friend. :)

Suggesting that reality is a supernatural deception,
is counterpart to atheism.

One makes reality out to be complete illusion,
the other offers explanation for where the boundaries of reality lie.

I think the latter is a more solid foundation for the inquisitive mind (by far).

'The foolish man built his house upon the sand...
The wise man built his house upon the rocks...'

[geckopelli]

I have a perfect idea...stop arguing about who's right or wrong and just live and let live. Let them do their own thing as long as they don't impose on your free will!


Not trying to preach, just an idea.

But no one is yet indisputably right. Why not encourage the continued free exchange of ideas?

Who knows whom may learn what?

argeement leads only to self-congratulations and stagnation of thought.

Hooray for free speech!

[Kharakov]

But no one is yet indisputably right. Why not encourage the continued free exchange of ideas?

Who knows whom may learn what?

argeement leads only to self-congratulations and stagnation of thought.
I agree :). The stone that the builder refused has become a cornerstone.

[Razorofoccam]

MN's son

Exactly
Agree with main post

refer to sig.

WE manage this earth for our children
And we are destoying it..

Our children will curse us,,,

Do we want that? Or are we so stupid as not to care,?

Occam

[Razorofoccam]

I agree :). The stone that the builder refused has become a cornerstone.
Kharkov

How so?

Occam