there should be.... [Archive]

Quest_techie

10-03-2005, 05:16 AM

prison camps in which people are indoctrinated in everything from proper nutrition, the way money works, good food, proper health, art, science, etc.

and I'm not talking school, those fuckers have no teeth, the best thing they can do is send you home, I'm talking people who can execute real problems if it is absolutly nessescary, cattle prods are equicocal to detentions

sheer brain washing hell......

society softly brain washes people every day, hell may as well have a society that has the balls to do it overtly......

buxillafion

10-03-2005, 05:32 AM

agreeed

spooner

10-03-2005, 05:39 AM

explain to me exactly how you're brain-washed.

Micha

10-03-2005, 05:41 AM

and I'm not talking school, those fuckers have no teeth

Ahahahahaahahah!!!

led zppelilin fan

10-03-2005, 05:42 AM

were the adams family

Quest_techie

10-03-2005, 05:49 AM

there are artifical influences poored into people every day, from phrases and words people pick up from popular television shows and current news events (how many people would say wmd if a certain republican think tank leader hadn't told rove that it tested better than any number of other phrases or abbreviations for a threat of nuclear or biological sort)

in the 1950's because of social pressures people married earlier, things like good houskeeping magazine told women "how to be good wives" in very specific procedural ways which many women followed, there are so many small degrees every day that society affects our behaviour, there are so many ways that it does it unnaturaly

announcer voices, have you ever heard a real person talk to another person in an "announcer voice" no because it would sound incrediblt patronizing, but when it comes from the teevee saying idotic things we accept what it says many accept it as truth unquestioningly because it is that particular tone of voice

advertisers have sunk huge amounts of money into what sorts of things humans react to positivly without even realizing that they are, boeing paid billions of dollars to make the boeing pull the triggers in the human brain that said comfort, GM paid billions to find out what americans wanted in SUV's and found out that we want intimidating vehicles, that's why almost all SUV's have tinted windows now

thousands of tiny ways every day........

spooner

10-03-2005, 06:05 AM

All societies have norms, from the most primitive to the most westernized. Its hardly brainwashing, its human socialization.

And while advertising is amazingly annoying at times, it can hardly make you do anything against your will. It's not like your brain has outside controls.

Dave, you gots an amazingly dismal view of humans. I doubt it's all deserved.

Quest_techie

10-03-2005, 06:13 AM

I think you give humanity far too much credit on the whole

you cannot win an election without having some sort of extraordinary resources, the more the army spends on advertising, the more people sign up, there are studies that say advertising works, fuck why would companies spend so much on it if it didn't?

I find it funny that you say "the most primitive to the most westernized" as though western culture were the least primitive, the most advanced,

the fact that we haven't built a top ten super computer in ages (in computer terms) and that intel is the only company ever even in the running that counts as a western company despite the fact that the majority of their employees are not westerners

you can't say that is not some sort of product of some sort of PR that goes on every day in the western world

we are all just dogs, to feed at the ring of a bell....

NikkiLou6387

10-03-2005, 04:23 PM

explain to me exactly how you're brain-washed.
omg...

fluoride in your toothpaste and water is believed to be a brainwashing material. D.A.R.E.
government propaganda-example: weapons of mass destruction
example b: those commercials that say pot kills you
got milk?-milk is actually pretty bad for you
amerikkkan history books- read the book "lies my history teacher told me" to enlighten yourself on that one
etc. etc. etc.

Oz!

10-03-2005, 04:28 PM

prison camps in which people are indoctrinated in everything from proper nutrition, the way money works, good food, proper health, art, science, etc.
yer don't need prison camps......yer just need someone to change the scheduling on the telly :D

_chris_

10-03-2005, 06:48 PM

Quest_techie

10-04-2005, 04:34 AM

why not revolutionary skills and equality (not equal oppertunities, actual equality) as well?

because in my perfect society in which children are educated in a competitive prison camp manner (forgot to mention that living quarters and feeding schedules would be based upon achievemnet) you would also have something similar to communism in that everyone, everyone would be payed the same, but they would be forced to do a job, and they'd be forced to do the highest job they were capable of until a certain age, they would have to do a job that matched their personality traits (i.e. people who took personal pride in craftsmanship and tested to that level would be placed in workshops to build decorative houshold goods) in this way everyone would do a job they enjoyed and every job would be filled

why would they need to be taught revolutionary skills if everything were so neatly provided for them including a high standard of living, fulfilling work, incredible personal freedom and the ability to advance within the meritocracy

you would also once you had finished school you are rewarded for performance not connections, but quality of reports from an offshore auditing corporation of your work, national audits would be performed every five years

_chris_

10-04-2005, 06:49 PM

sounds pretty sweet

"Daves Republic"
"Chairman Daves Little Red Book"

Lucifer Sam

10-04-2005, 10:35 PM

because in my perfect society in which children are educated in a competitive prison camp manner (forgot to mention that living quarters and feeding schedules would be based upon achievemnet) you would also have something similar to communism in that everyone, everyone would be payed the same, but they would be forced to do a job, and they'd be forced to do the highest job they were capable of until a certain age, they would have to do a job that matched their personality traits (i.e. people who took personal pride in craftsmanship and tested to that level would be placed in workshops to build decorative houshold goods) in this way everyone would do a job they enjoyed and every job would be filled

why would they need to be taught revolutionary skills if everything were so neatly provided for them including a high standard of living, fulfilling work, incredible personal freedom and the ability to advance within the meritocracy

you would also once you had finished school you are rewarded for performance not connections, but quality of reports from an offshore auditing corporation of your work, national audits would be performed every five years

Read Plato's Republic, if you haven't already. I think you'd like it.

canadian_boy

10-04-2005, 10:53 PM

I agree

_chris_

10-04-2005, 11:13 PM

Its like a cross between platos republic and chairman mao's little red book, thus my previous post.

AddictedToStrychnine

10-04-2005, 11:17 PM

Read "The Open Society and It's Enemies" by Karl Popper.

:p

Quest_techie

10-05-2005, 06:19 AM

we would also have an enourmous arsenal including a weapon that would convert all the O2 in the athmosphere into ozone, thus the ultimate M.A.D. we'd have cheap respirators that converted the ozone back to O2 and thus we would be unopposed without a standing army......

NaykidApe

10-05-2005, 06:26 AM

Generations to come will recognise quest_techie as the father of benevolent fashism.

Quest_techie

10-05-2005, 06:27 AM

I'm okay with that......

Ash_Freakstreet

10-05-2005, 06:34 AM

Generations to come will recognise quest_techie as the father of benevolent fashism.
No. Infinity beat him to it.

Quest_techie

10-05-2005, 06:40 AM

every original idea you've ever had..... someone else has had it.......

but I'm okay with that, as long as I get my society of pretty, healthy, smart people.....

preferably in a small world that is able to be controlled to such a level that shit won't go wrong.....

spooner

10-05-2005, 08:15 AM

you cannot win an election without having some sort of extraordinary resources, the more the army spends on advertising, the more people sign up, there are studies that say advertising works, fuck why would companies spend so much on it if it didn't?I didn't say advertising isn't effective at times, I'm saying it doesn't brain-wash you (ie: force you do to things). If that was the case, every single person who saw an Army ad would join in corps. In reality it merely brings it to the forefront of someone's mind, and while some people who might not of otherwise chosen it will join - they still make a rational decision.

I find it funny that you say "the most primitive to the most westernized" as though western culture were the least primitive, the most advanced...Fine. Northen (per North-South gap)
the fact that we haven't built a top ten super computer in ages (in computer terms) and that intel is the only company ever even in the running that counts as a western company despite the fact that the majority of their employees are not westernersWell, to be honest, I don't give a shit about supercomputers.

you can't say that is not some sort of product of some sort of PR that goes on every day in the western worldYou're reduced to quibbling over semantics here.
we are all just dogs, to feed at the ring of a bell....Alluding to Pavlov hardly makes your point any more sophisticated.

spooner

10-05-2005, 08:19 AM

omg...

fluoride in your toothpaste and water is believed to be a brainwashing material.Are you fucking serious? You have to be shitting me. Because if I thought you really believed this I wouldn't waste any brain cells on the rest of your post.

D.A.R.E.
government propaganda-example: weapons of mass destruction
example b: those commercials that say pot kills you
got milk?-milk is actually pretty bad for you
amerikkkan history books- read the book "lies my history teacher told me" to enlighten yourself on that one
etc. etc. etc.
You are aware that Propogandha and Brain-Washing are not the same thing, right?

Quest_techie

10-05-2005, 08:19 AM

there are so many articles that would dreadfully interest you and if I ever start saving the links to them I'll start posting them whenever something like this comes up

people are affected by external stimuli in a direct way, it is more difficult to harness then advertisers wish it were, but it is easier then most consumers wish it were,

and you are just going to entrench yourself, no matter what I post, I could post 10,000 articles that said I was right, nay a million and you would still stay entrenched, so I shall waste no more time on this pointless "debate"

spooner

10-05-2005, 10:51 PM

there are so many articles that would dreadfully interest you and if I ever start saving the links to them I'll start posting them whenever something like this comes up
You find me one empyrically-proven study where advertising can force someone to do something against their will, and I will believe you. Taking Internet articles literally is no more intelligent than doing the same with the Bible.

people are affected by external stimuli in a direct way, it is more difficult to harness then advertisers wish it were, but it is easier then most consumers wish it were
The point you are arguing isn't whether they are affected by external stimulation, it's whether they are controlled by it. Coercion vs. Influence.

and you are just going to entrench yourself, no matter what I post, I could post 10,000 articles that said I was right, nay a million and you would still stay entrenched, so I shall waste no more time on this pointless "debate"
Actually, I understand the principle of falsifiability. I will accept being wrong.

But you're right about me not trusting a million internet articles because they are not scientific. You may as well be quoting scripture.

The internet is the religion of the the 21st century.

So the challenge stands. Go to your local university library, look through psychological journals, and find one study that proves advertising controls people, and I will believe you.

Until then... meh.

Quest_techie

10-06-2005, 05:42 AM

Quest_techie

10-06-2005, 06:32 AM

how about letting people live the way they want to live, and leave them the fuck alone

because then the weak are killed by the strong, or raped, those whos darkest natures control them control others, and society collapses from lack of people to hold it up

anarchy doesn't work because people bitch about things that don't matter.....

Quest_techie

10-06-2005, 07:09 AM

my government wouldn't have a standing army, it would have the threat of O2 depletion in the athmosphere, kill every non-plant, non fish creature on earth.....

I'm still working out how to do this cataclysmically all at once, but so long as your citizens had respirators to convert ozone to O2 you are fucking set.....

spooner

10-07-2005, 12:28 AM

I'm not talking that sort of article, I'm talking articles published in medical journals.... my god it is frankly apalling the level which you passivly underestimate everyone else....

I actually have educated people who are willing to back up my perspective of the world.....Alright, but you still havent' found me one. Tell me the medical journal (although if you found this anything but a psychological one, I'd be amazed) and the issure and I will take a look.

And its not so much underestimating everyone, only you. My opinion of your intelligence just doesn't correspond with yours.

Quest_techie

10-07-2005, 05:21 AM

my correspondance just happens to have two people who had degrees and were paid to know what the fuck they were talking about backing it up.....

yours likely does not.......

spooner

10-08-2005, 04:10 AM

Why would you expect my psych prof to not have a phd?

But lets not turn this into an intellectual pissing contest. Find me even one peer-reviewed experiment and I'll consider it... Until then lets just close the argument. And you can go on believing in brainwashing.