Lsd, Shrooms, or Salvia? [Archive]

TopNotchStoner

10-03-2005, 01:14 AM

well, it's nearly impossible for anyone to get real LSD-25 anymore unless u got connections with the family or someone else that has access to a full laboratory and highly illegal substances...
shrooms depending on which type are only as intence as u can handle... once u reach a certain ammount u start barfing them up... the effects aren't anywhere near as psychodelic as LSD.
and as for salvia... it's more for spiritual purposes taking a journey inside yourself... many people say the effects are quite unpleasant... so as for fun... not salvia...

if i personaly had access to it... I'd go LSD all the way...
I've had way more intensly psychedelic experiences with shrooms than lsd. I've experienced complete ego loss under the influence of shrooms. They are, by far, my favorite of the three choices. I've only had moderate experience with salvia, but did not particularly like anything about the experience.

ssj3gotenks

10-03-2005, 03:01 AM

salvia is bulls***. It's legal and i can't stand the effects: like feeling really sweaty and feeling like i havnt showered in the last 3 years. oh ya and club 13 salvia really sucks. it's expensive too. And worst of all, the high lasts 5 minutes!!!

shrooms are alright. Prob is that they are expensive like 45 and 1/8th around here. And they are not strong.

Acid is great. It really feels good and i've never had a bad trip once. The reason is because right before i trip i always put myself in a peaceful mood. if you take acid and are scared or paranoid prior to taking it, your gonna freak out most likely. Also it's much much cheaper than shrooms.

TopNotchStoner

10-03-2005, 03:07 AM

TopNotchStoner

10-03-2005, 03:34 AM

where and when the hell have u gotten real lsd-25?
Did the quote even say anything about LSD-25? Read it again, man.

MagicSwhirlingShip

10-03-2005, 10:51 PM

jester wtf are you talking about acid is out there you just gotta know the right people. Sure theres alot of bunk shit and chems going around but its not like you got to know the family to get the real deal. Ive gotten stuff i now for sure was LSD-25 on multiple ocassions. Actually round these parts it really is no big deal.

TopNotchStoner

10-05-2005, 11:51 PM

where and when the hell have u gotten real lsd-25?
If it's LSD then it's always pure, it's just matter of how concentrated it is. If it's not as concentrated you just have to take more hits but it's always the same thing.

peaceful_kid89

10-06-2005, 12:58 AM

i like shrooms and acid equally i like shrooms cuz i laugh my self insane and i like acid because well do i really have to explain why?

2cesarewild

10-06-2005, 09:30 PM

If it's LSD then it's always pure, it's just matter of how concentrated it is.
That's not true... there are grades of crystal based on purity, white fluff isn't just 'more concentrated' than silver.

PurpleGel

10-07-2005, 09:07 AM

they're all fun in their own ways. how can you turn this into a poll...

orbital_forest

10-08-2005, 04:33 AM

lsd is more of a recreational drug for me than mushrooms,dont get me wrong ive had very deep entheogenic experiences with lsd but mushrooms are always extremely spiritual to me after my jellyfish god experience on a quarter...i can take a shitload of acid and be fine in public having just a fun time,laughin at the slow turn to complete insanity :)

syd

10-08-2005, 05:40 AM

well, it's nearly impossible for anyone to get real LSD-25 anymore unless u got connections with the family or someone else that has access to a full laboratory and highly illegal substances...
shrooms depending on which type are only as intence as u can handle... once u reach a certain ammount u start barfing them up... the effects aren't anywhere near as psychodelic as LSD.
and as for salvia... it's more for spiritual purposes taking a journey inside yourself... many people say the effects are quite unpleasant... so as for fun... not salvia...

if i personaly had access to it... I'd go LSD all the way...
Heheheheheh, move to Australia dude, tons of acid down here.

greengoddess

10-08-2005, 05:56 AM

I just shroomed my ass off last weekend and will be again this weekend so I have to pick the wonderful little shroomies!!

2cesarewild

10-11-2005, 08:30 PM

Heheheheheh, move to Australia dude, tons of acid down here.
Yea but is it a. really lsd, and b. good?

firelip

10-14-2005, 04:46 AM

That's not true... there are grades of crystal based on purity, white fluff isn't just 'more concentrated' than silver.

Let me clear up some confusion here. There are some simple points of synthetic chemistry and potency that make the above statement and other herein simply wrong. When people speak of "grades" of crystal, the are refering to purity. Purity is in a way an issue of concentration. One saving grace about A is that it so incredibly potent that impurities are almost meaningless. Most pure organic compounds that are solid at room temp will form nice colorless crystals. If there is color to the crystal, then it is colored by the impurities and is therefor less concentrated by a small fraction.

Regarding the identification of the real deal, that is fairly easy in many common forms of dosage. For example, how much substance of any variety can you soak up into a tiny piece of paper? There is no way that you could get enough of any other common psychomemetic onto a piece of paper to have an effect. Also, A glows in UV light. Except for Salvinorum A, I know of nothing else that could be dose as blotter, and you would definitely know the difference.

Jim (a chemist)

orbital_forest

10-14-2005, 02:16 PM

^^^^ DOx chemicals,5meo amt can soak into paper easily

firelip

10-14-2005, 07:53 PM

^^^^ DOx chemicals,5meo amt can soak into paper easily
The point is, How many milligrams can be absorbed into a small piece of paper, 1 or 2 perhaps, but not enough for an effect orraly for the tryptamines, phenethyl amines, etc.

2cesarewild

10-14-2005, 09:30 PM

Let me clear up some confusion here. There are some simple points of synthetic chemistry and potency that make the above statement and other herein simply wrong. When people speak of "grades" of crystal, the are refering to purity. Purity is in a way an issue of concentration. One saving grace about A is that it so incredibly potent that impurities are almost meaningless. Most pure organic compounds that are solid at room temp will form nice colorless crystals. If there is color to the crystal, then it is colored by the impurities and is therefor less concentrated by a small fraction.

Yea you could definitely say purity is the concentration of LSD vs concentration of impurities. Most people though don't think of how pure something is when someone only says 'concentrated.' They think "o that means it's stronger." Not, "that means it's cleaner."

DO* = phenethylamines
5-meo-amt = tryptamine
bromo-dragonfly = isopropylamine (I believe)

DO*, 5-meo-amt, bromo-dragonfly, have all been found on blotter, and it's just getting more and more popular (and easy) for assholes to put these chems on paper and say it's acid. It's actually a lot easier for SWIM to get DOI, br-drfly, and 5meoamt than it is for SWIM to get quality L. A lot of people can't tell the difference either because they just train themselves to think anything on blotter that makes you trip is acid. Had a kid the other day telling me he could get doses... "they have a bitter taste and it takes like two hours to kick in" then when you tell them it's not lsd, they're like "o man it's definitely acid I was tripping my sack off." I can assure you these blotters that aren't LSD are all over the place. SWIM even got a sheet of DOI from a legit supplier who usually has L. SWIM ended up tripping for 3 days straight, sweating like a demon, not able to eat. It just sucked.

goofydrummer

10-25-2005, 03:53 AM

when i tried acid, it was intensely psychedelic but not as mentally stimulating as i would have hoped. Id do shooms over acid, although i cant say much because i have only had it once and it probably wasnt pure lsd-25

StonerBill

10-25-2005, 04:31 PM

Heheheheheh, move to Australia dude, tons of acid down here.
WHERe?

TopNotchStoner

10-25-2005, 04:41 PM

I've only found one supplier of LSD in my life and he is no longer around. But I believe he had the real shit, as it took only one blotter square(1cm x 1cm) for me to trip fucking balls. Not sure how many mic's, but it took approx. 25-35 minutes for it to kick in pretty good and I was gone for the next 9-10 hours.

Some good experiences, but I still prefer shrooms.

orbital_forest

10-25-2005, 08:35 PM

bromo-dragonfly is a phenethylamine....it is the fully aromatic furan analogue of DOB

2cesarewild

10-26-2005, 07:15 PM

Then why is the chem name Bromo-benzodifuranyl-isopropylamine? IDK Who cares it's all semantics to me it comes from phens anyways.

orbital_forest

10-27-2005, 06:19 AM

there are various ways to refer to a chemical...i could be wrong

2cesarewild

10-27-2005, 04:04 PM

Yea there are a couple different naming conventions i think, but i am not a chem buff or anything like that, chemistry isn't my biggest interest.

StonerBill

10-27-2005, 04:46 PM

chemistry is what you experience. you might not understand it but you gotta be interested by it or else youre being ignorant. i thought you learnt against being ignorant? tsk tsk

i mean ignorant in an objective sense of course, not subjective like most people use

can my vodka please turn into lsd? thank you

2cesarewild

10-27-2005, 10:59 PM

It'd be great to learn all the chemical reactions that run the world but I don't have the time, I am interested in other things that take up my time. I guess I am ignorant because most of my time is taken up being a gear in the machine.

orbital_forest

10-28-2005, 04:45 AM

lol if only vodka could be turned into lsd...id never leave the house :)

TopNotchStoner

10-28-2005, 11:03 AM

lol if only vodka could be turned into lsd...id never leave the house :)Except, of course, to buy more vodka.

StonerBill

10-28-2005, 11:32 AM

or potatoes

WishIWasAHippie

11-13-2005, 01:10 AM

So how would you identify REAL LSD? Like, as far as a home test goes?

Someone said UV light...

SliceNDice

11-13-2005, 07:41 PM

How can I get acid in New Hampshire? All I can get is pot.

2cesarewild

11-14-2005, 06:07 PM

How can I get acid in New Hampshire? All I can get is pot.

Meet the right people.

Gyva02

11-19-2005, 02:49 AM

Acid all the way is the funniest of all... best bang for your buck too....

Mike...

DavidRig2006

11-21-2005, 04:31 AM

Most Fun: Shrooms
Best Value: Acid
Most intense and coolest trip I have ever had in the world: Salvia
-yes salvia is a little expencive and the effects don't last long BUT the trip is AMAZING.
If you've never tripped salvia then do it. And, try some alternatives to smoking it. It makes you trip as well.

generic

11-29-2005, 08:55 PM

get a friend to send you acid in the mail. The blotters are small enough to hide very effectively.

Posthumous

12-03-2005, 09:40 AM

'Shrooms tell you what you were, Acid tells you who you are, and Salvia tells you where you're going.

http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/catbacker2.jpg

So if Acid is more fun than Salvia, then it's probably time to get back to work.

2cesarewild

12-05-2005, 06:53 PM

If Salvia told me where I was going, then I don't wanna go there rofl...

firelip

12-05-2005, 08:33 PM

I think i have to agree with 2ceswild. My only intense salvia esperience was incredibly disorienting and more regressive than prophetic. I had no idea who or even what i was. Then it seemed as if i were about 13, human, and i was just coming to after being knocked out from some sort of head trauma. I could see what i thought was my old junior high school in the distance, and there was something relating to playing basketball. Then i was back in my woods, resting in the arms of my love, where i had been only moments before i became an uncocious 13 year old. Nothing profound, or prophetic!. It was not even a real memory. Just a very odd!

My partner had a profound and very sumbolic experience, so i guess there is a wide range of experinces. Few people i know who have experienced the mother herb, describe the experience as pleasurable.

Each to their own, said the old lady as she kissed the pig!

Jim

Mordiana

12-11-2005, 02:21 PM

I'd be able to choose if I did all of them, acid sounds most interesting but its the one I never did, mushrooms though, they can be quite.. insane, especially if you're less then 50 kg and take a full dose of hawaiians. Really, not much can beat that!

Orange Sunshine Vet

12-21-2005, 07:03 PM

[QUOTE=insanejester]shrooms depending on which type are only as intense as u can handle... once u reach a certain amount u start barfing them up... the effects aren't anywhere near as psychedelic as LSD.[QUOTE]

I can't agree with that insanejester, There are certain strains of P mushrooms that are very hallucinogenic and pack a full spectrum light show i.e. Thai Koh Samui for one! 20 grams wet/fresh gives a full blown experience!

LSD depending on purity and how soon you get it after it has been made & laid can be quite an experience also. For those who believe in the metaphysics; it is the intent and the love of the chemist that adds that extra mystical edge to the trip. Owsley the alchemist did just that he bless the LSD with certain intentions, as he made it!

The hole Thumb print scenario was used for that reason, i believe. You had to have a pure loving heart to distribute it. If you did not pass the thumb print test, you where not allowed to handle LSD.

Because;

like earths crystals the simple fact of touching them and thinking certain intents would program the crystal with that intent, LSD works the same way.
cheers

Demonslayer

12-29-2005, 12:00 AM

Shrooms can beat the hell out of acid any day (yes, we get real acid here in Europe). The body load is a part of the experience that makes it all the more powerful. 5 to 6 hours of shroomtripping is more intense on both body and mind than 10-12 hours of acidtripping.
I've never eaten that weak cubensis shit you all get, it smells like old gym socks and I'm not suprised you can't hold it down. Try the liberty caps 1-1.5 grams, they are much stronger and they taste nice also. The paneolous tropicalis is also great, it tastes a little more like soil, but you only need a half gram for a nice tripp and a full gram for a really intense tripp.
Salvia is way to intense for me to have a good time. Plain leaf is alright but 5x propels me into a reality so bisarre and strange that LSD comes nowhere near it in intenseness. Give me a choice of 5x salvia and 1000 mics acid, and I'll chose acid anytime. I just don't like some of the entities I meet in salviaspace.

Orange Sunshine Vet

12-29-2005, 10:31 PM

Salvia is so strange! Possibly because its such a short and overwhelming trip, 15min tops, there's really no time to acclimate to it. as soon as you do it's over and leave you there in shock.

There's DMT, That's a short one, it's not as creepy a feeling as salvia. LSD and Shrooms are much better.

Demonslayer; I can certainly agree with you bout' certain strains of mushroom, such as Thai koh mushrooms 2g are almost overwhelming.

GothModernHippy

03-02-2006, 04:02 AM

Acid can have long lasting sychological effects I've been in an acid trip for a year now the colors don't seem to be going away. Mushrooms are scary. Salvia is legal its safe to use it don't last for months after a hit and the visuals are actually like traveling to another place. I'd have to say salvia divorium

polymer

03-02-2006, 04:36 AM

"I've had way more intensly psychedelic experiences with shrooms than lsd."
i suppose i was assuming u meant the real stuff I had real lsd, several times, liquid, blotters, and on sweet tarts.

I agree with TopNotch and Demonslayer; shrooms will take you much further than acid ever could. i've mentioned it before, lsd's effects plateau with increasing dosage, shrooms' effects only intensify. you're not going to get any greater affect from 1000 mics of LSD, than 600mics...but if you take 5 grams of shrooms one day, then 1/2 an ounce a few days later, you'll definitely know the difference.

and salvia's skincrawling feeling is very dysphoric (it's effect on the brain is opposite of opiates), the bizarre vibes are not pleasant.

Liberty Caps, and Blue Meanies....all you need for a trippin' good time.

2cesarewild

03-02-2006, 04:22 PM

So what do you think about thumbprints then?

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 04:50 PM

wolftrot like blue meanie

polymer

03-02-2006, 06:20 PM

So what do you think about thumbprints then? I think they're fairly amusing.

but I think 1.5 grams of blue meanies would be more of some serious business.

don't get me wrong; I know crystal wash will dissolve the ego like acid does, but for a far out visionary state, meanies take it.

Terrapin Flyer

03-02-2006, 07:04 PM

yo remember when exodus fell flat on her face john?

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 07:06 PM

Yea man, that's when I came out of the vortex and couldnt stop laughin! Remeber Sidney? "Oh well, I guess we dont have a dog anymore." and "Does anybody realize the dogs eating a burning coal?"

Terrapin Flyer

03-02-2006, 07:17 PM

ddddaaaammmmmnnn yo remember how scared skull was of the sidster?

Terrapin Flyer

03-02-2006, 07:18 PM

oohh yea she drank my mushroom tea. thats why that dog was the best i think

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 07:20 PM

You didnt consult me about accuiring a dog to join the party. We shall now have to drop the level 15 pimp cane and wrap up the cloak of increased vitality+3 around it.

Terrapin Flyer

03-02-2006, 07:21 PM

thats probrally the way that kids head works, kyles too.

2cesarewild

03-02-2006, 07:31 PM

I think they're fairly amusing.

but I think 1.5 grams of blue meanies would be more of some serious business.

What subspecies or whatever is nicknamed blue meanies? I can't picture 1.5 grams of any mushroom being stronger than multi-milligram doses of lsd, or otherwise taking you anywhere that a thumbprint wouldn't.

don't get me wrong; I know crystal wash will dissolve the ego like acid does, but for a far out visionary state, meanies take it.
hm I'm a little confused, wash is the leftover squid from laying, just sort of a bit more potent medium of acid, different than a thumbprint, so the line "crystal wash will... like acid" got me a little confused, maybe just a type o.

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 07:35 PM

thats probrally the way that kids head works, kyles too.

I still have nightmares about when Kyle lit us on fire man, and my shoes melted to my skin and shit, hahahahahaha pretty funny when you almost die yo!

Terrapin Flyer

03-02-2006, 07:39 PM

yea like half yer hair got crispy too. nothin like wakin up to an inferno all around you. kinnda make me fear hell a little less

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 07:42 PM

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! and i thought it was raining when the gasoline came a pouring down! But yo, what were those blue meanies man? I think 2ces was asking what kind of shrooms they were? You remember them?

Terrapin Flyer

03-02-2006, 07:46 PM

baby cubensis pretty much. i dont know if theyre a different speices of cubensis but im pretty sure theyre just baby wild cubensis. yea they were mad good. florida mushrooms just make me really lethargic. like when we sat around all fucking day watching a fire pit with no fire in it. "whoah, change the channel brah"

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 07:47 PM

Oh yea, dude i think that was the same day as the vortex and the fall on the face

2cesarewild

03-02-2006, 07:55 PM

holy shit dude, someone tried to light you guys? Did he run out of trees or something?

Terrapin Flyer

03-02-2006, 07:58 PM

holy shit dude, someone tried to light you guys? Did he run out of trees or something?

nah the kids just crazy, he was drunk too. me and john were houseless in pennsylvania a few years ago so we slept in a tent in a park. vodka, depakote, and final fantasy online made that kid a nut

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 07:59 PM

Nah lol Terrapin stole a quarter out of his room and he went insane and we were sleeping in a tent in the woods, and out of no where kid rolls up and kicks the shit out of it, and we were all like got out and said nah didnt steal no quarter man, and he left, few hours later i woke up and IM like you negg, its raining and terrapin was like oh, and then WWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH great balls of fire man! Shit was fuckin crazy we couldnt even get out until it burned most of the tent down to us.

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 08:01 PM

Kevin, you know you thought that shit was MAD funny though when we realized we werent dead.

Neuronaut7

03-02-2006, 08:06 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an upper limit on the amount of shrooms one can ingest at a time? I know there's an upper limit on LSD as well, but I know it's something quite ridiculous, like drinking a gatorage bottle full of nearly pure liquid. There was a documented case where a guy somehow ingested 302,000 mics of LSD. He died, needless to say, but people have been known to take exccessively large quantities and not die. My friend knows two guys (I know, so does everyone's friend) but these were actually two aquantences of my friends. I forget exactly what happened, but they ingested quite a bit more than they should have, both are pretty fried now and can't do a whole hell of a lot. I also know a guy (we call him goober in my town) whose drink was spiked at a grad party when he graduated, and now all he can do is walk around town smoking cigs and eating burger king. Lives with his parents, its pretty sad. Guy was really smart too, some of the teachers at my school who graduated with him said he was valedictorian and was going to go to harvard or some other prestigious school.

I've had some quite intense body loads on acid. The one night I'm referring to, my buddy I was trippin with kept sayin it was like extacy, that I needed to try it sometime because that's EXACTLY how it felt. That reminds me of a rather wierd hallucination, if I may:

Just before the deepest section of our trips, we were in my dorm room watching pulp fiction (well, he was watching, I was watching the inside of my eyelids) when we remembered that we had beer in the fridge. He took a gulp and went "WOAH!" but didn't explain, he just told me I had to have some of the "perfect beer" (they had been in the freezer section and were quite cold). As soon as that beer hit my tongue, and I'm not shitting you, my vision frosted over the way a cold glass would on a hot day or the way your car windows do in the winter time. Slowly it faded away and every time we drank any of that beer, the frost came back.

I'd have to say my favorite is acid, since I haven't done either of the other two. I might have to settle for shrooms over break (can't get a 10-strip until AFTER my spring break :( ) if I can even get those. My tripping buddy has said that while you may feel more body on shrooms, it's not exactly a positive all the time. Unlike acid, which he has always compared to X. The only person I know who has tried Salvia said not to do it, and I trust her when it comes to drugs. Maybe I'll try it, but it doesn't seem like something I'd like.

polymer

03-02-2006, 08:07 PM

baby cubensis pretty much. i dont know if theyre a different speices of cubensis but im pretty sure theyre just baby wild cubensis. ???

blue meanies are copelandia (paneolus) cyanescens, and yeah, they grow out in florida, jamaica, hawaii, australia, thailand, and even here in Texas.
they're much stronger than cubensis.

2cesarewild

03-02-2006, 08:07 PM

holy fuck dude, he tried to off you guys over a quarter? What did you do afterwards?

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 08:08 PM

???

blue meanies are copelandia (paneolus) cyanescens, and yeah, they grow out in florida, jamaica, hawaii, australia, thailand, and even here in Texas.
they're much stronger than cubensis.

hmmmm, well thanks for clearen that one up man! I just ate them and paid no attention to what tehy were lol.

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 08:11 PM

holy fuck dude, he tried to off you guys over a quarter? What did you do afterwards?

HAHAHAHA I know man, some people in this world are truly, truly out of they fuckin minds! We coudlnt really do much, I mean would could have chased the kid down and beat him up, but he is really like a nobody psycho so we just walked around and shit, it was cold as a bitch too!

polymer

03-02-2006, 08:12 PM

lol

a strong dose of meanies is .4 -.6 grams of dried mushrooms. 1 gram puts you into a heavy visionary state.

2cesarewild

03-02-2006, 08:12 PM

Ah ok never heard them called blue meanies before but everyone says they are uber strong, but I can't see 1.5 grams coming close to a print lol, FWIU, don't you need supervision for a few days by kind people when you take one?

neuronaut: where is this case documented? Have never heard of a death from LSD strictly as a result of too much LSD, and not the result of piss poor judgement.

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 08:12 PM

lol

a strong dose of meanies is .4 -.6 grams of dried mushrooms. 1 gram puts you into a heavy visionary state.

dude we drank like cup loads of tea of them, and ate them too! Hence : the Vortex.

RELAYER

03-02-2006, 08:28 PM

holy fuck dude, he tried to off you guys over a quarter? What did you do afterwards?

It was the power of Sailor Moon that saved us man, Im tellin ya

Neuronaut7

03-02-2006, 09:49 PM

I'm having trouble finding the article, I know it was on Erowid and I had been reading about the Elephant experiment when I stumbled across this article. The general story was that the police or something tried to pick the guy up for something, and he ran away. He was found a month later in a warehouse, dead. I forget what they actually determined the cause of death to be, but it was definitely caused by the LSD. There was a link from that page to the actual medical write-up, which I found hard to read, even after years and years of slowly accumulating medical knowledge from my mother.

polymer

03-02-2006, 10:33 PM

Ah ok never heard them called blue meanies before but everyone says they are uber strong, but I can't see 1.5 grams coming close to a print lol, FWIU, don't you need supervision for a few days by kind people when you take one? days?? i find that one hard to believe. I've known one person who's done a print, and yeah he was gone all day, speechless, but he was fine the next day

1.5 grams (theoretical dose) of dried cyanescens will transport most people into shrrom hyperspace, 2 grams is a sure bet; lsd is just a real mindjob with lots of distortions.

polymer

03-02-2006, 10:48 PM

http://www.shayanashop.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=416

polymer

03-02-2006, 11:15 PM

and why isn't DMT in the poll?? easily blows the other three out of the water.

2cesarewild

03-03-2006, 12:08 AM

Initiation or just some random guy who did a print?

And I think dmt isn't on the poll cause it's a rare find for most people.

polymer

03-03-2006, 01:32 AM

Initiation or just some random guy who did a print?

And I think dmt isn't on the poll cause it's a rare find for most people. lol no, not initiation, just someone from my circle of friends; summer/fall 1994 (philly suburbs, jersey), acid was easy to come by, even liquid.

2cesarewild

03-03-2006, 01:40 AM

oh, we're talking about a similar, but a little different thing. Thumbprint I am talking about is done with crystal, as a test of character. I think what you're talking about is more like what happened to this one lady's friend at a phish show in 94, puddle of squid on his hand and he was found a couple days later naked in his car hundreds of miles away, not dead of course, just chilling naked. Must have been a little out of it when he came to though lol.

polymer

03-03-2006, 01:57 AM

no, we're talking about the same thing...only we called it "crystal wash", but he did press his thumbs in it. the crystal was later diluted, and put into a breath drops bottle

I've never heard of anyone tripping on LSD for days, though...news to me; and I've had a fairly extensive background with the stuff

polymer

03-03-2006, 01:59 AM

I had another friend who did 21 hits of white fluff; he just passed out.

RELAYER

03-03-2006, 03:32 PM

http://www.shayanashop.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=416

Brings back some memories..................

Neuronaut7

03-03-2006, 03:41 PM

Ok, I'm confused. Why refer to thumbprints as the same thing when it's two different things? The name crystal wash implies that theres some sort of liquid involved. I know that what ceswild is referring to is rather hardcore (and I wish I had the opportunity/balls to try it) and what it actually refers to, because SWIM (who wanted to make LSD purely for the adademic thrill) explained to me how crazy shit can get.

What's the point in arguing though, I'm fairly certain that no matter how different the trips are, acid takes you farther out. If shrooms give you a more introspective mystical experience, then obviously you're not going as "out there" as you could possibly be. The ridiculousness of acid is being able to pull information out of those experiences.

But like I told a friend the other day who said she'd never do acid cuz it was too hardcore - its not about how you get there, its the fact that you're going.

polymer

03-03-2006, 04:38 PM

Ok, I'm confused. Why refer to thumbprints as the same thing when it's two different things? The name crystal wash implies that theres some sort of liquid involved. no, they are both one and the same substance; crystal wash is just another name for the end product; LSD after the last filtration, after being washed with a solvent.
a "thumbprint" is a method of taking it

I'm fairly certain that no matter how different the trips are, acid takes you farther out. If shrooms give you a more introspective mystical experience, then obviously you're not going as "out there" as you could possibly be. The ridiculousness of acid is being able to pull information out of those experiences.
that's where some of us disagree, especially the ones of us who've done massive amounts of both, and I'm not sure by what you mean by "if shrooms give you a more introspective mystical experience, then obviously you're not going as "out there" you could possibly be"...that is just flat out incorrect; once you've dissolved all association with personal identity, and enter the spiritual realm, you're already pretty far out there. and you think it's difficult pulling info out of an acid trip?? it's even more confusing trying to do so with a DMT flash, due to how fast/hard it hits you, and how quickly it's gone. Acid is very introspective, in its own rite, even at doses over 400mics. DMT can be very spiritual, but there's no time for introspect. ego and everything you thought you knew about life, gets disemboweled in less time than it takes to call home. With acid, you have a few hours to reflect

I digress, though... psilocybin is phosphoryloxy-DMT (essentially orally-active DMT), which comes on gradually like hoasca, and the more you take, the further out you're going to get, not the case with LSD; that vessel takes only takes you so far.

some people prefer LSD, some prefer shrooms; no argument there, it's just personal preference...though the dosage limit for the former also limits the extension of the realm. Someone pointed out that you could only eat so many mushrooms before purging...maybe, but not before booking your trip into the transdimensional superhighway of cosmic information; that's not even considering methanol extraction of psilocybin..you could encapsulate the resulting white powder, and ingest enormous amounts of psilocybin, without all the biomass.

when you come across dmt, and do a couple grams of dried liberty caps, or cyanescens (not necessarily at the same time), you'll see where I'm going with all this

Neuronaut7

03-03-2006, 06:04 PM

Crystal wash just kind of implies to me something like taking the leftover from a lay of blotter and selling that as liquid, I dunno, I'm not exactly well-versed in all this acid verbiage.

My comments about not being as "out there" as on acid is based on what peope have told me who have done both. Acid just seems to me to be more "pure" and im gonna be vague on that. I understand where you're going with all this, but only on here have I heard of people getting really potent shrooms. None of the people I know (and I know a fair number of people who have done a fair number of shrooms...including a kid at my high school who bought eight ounces of shrooms a number of times) have EVER gotten the kinda shit that you could eat three grams of and trip your sack off. That's just based on my experience though, based on a good number of people's descriptions that I have actually met. And I run in a fair number of circles, so it can't just be who people know; maybe it's just this area.

And since you brought it up, why is there a dosage limit on LSD but not on psilocybin? By that reasoning, LSD becomes too intense, is that not correct? What do you mean by that? You could eat an entire sheet of acid and be *physically* ok, hell, we were just talking about thumbprints. You say it's about personal preference, yet at the same time you're attempting to imply that shrooms (or DMT, which I won't argue is more intense, thus harder to integrate) are somehow better.

polymer

03-03-2006, 06:40 PM

And since you brought it up, why is there a dosage limit on LSD but not on psilocybin? By that reasoning, LSD becomes too intense, is that not correct? What do you mean by that? You could eat an entire sheet of acid and be *physically* ok, hell, we were just talking about thumbprints. You say it's about personal preference, yet at the same time you're attempting to imply that shrooms (or DMT, which I won't argue is more intense, thus harder to integrate) are somehow better. LSD becomes too intense (?), that has nothing to do with it; metabolism does. How enzymes break down LSD once it's absorbed is what limits the effect of LSD, doesn't matter if you swallow a sheet, or dip your nuts in crystal; the plateau point is around 600 micrograms.

better is such a relative term; personally, I prefer shrooms over acid...acid never scared the crap out of me the way shrooms did, and I've had very hefty doses of both (I tend to trip by myself)..the fear factor is not what I base this on though; I base it on the levels of visionary state, which shrooms beat LSD, hands down.

6 - 7 hits was my average dose on acid, purple gels, liquid, blotters, you name it. I was comfortable tripping by myself, or with friends... but something about shrooms typically kicked my ass, particularly with fresh ones I grew. The visions were spectacular, even with just 20 grams of fresh ones.

I honestly couldn't tell you what it is about DMT-derivatives that makes them exceptional catalysts for advanced mindstates, as little is known about their mechanisms; what I do know is that the brain is more receptive to these molecules than LSD, based on tolerance build up, and drop off.

oh and the shrooms relayer and I speak of are worlds stronger than typical cubes your friends get
these are a somewhat different family (panaeolus) : http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ggreatone%20234/index.html

2cesarewild

03-03-2006, 06:46 PM

Hey first off to clarify, I'm not arguing with polymer at all, in the slightest bit, if it looks like that sorry, just trying to make sure we're not miscommunicating.

Crystal wash just kind of implies to me something like taking the leftover from a lay of blotter and selling that as liquid, I dunno, I'm not exactly well-versed in all this acid verbiage.
Well everybody I've come across who uses the term "wash" means the leftover squid from laying that is usually pretty potent, and for headstash. BUT polymer is talking about "wash" as in chemistry, so it's just like we're all on the same level but using a little bit different terminology.

... but only on here have I heard of people getting really potent shrooms. None of the people I know (and I know a fair number of people who have done a fair number of shrooms...including a kid at my high school who bought eight ounces of shrooms a number of times) have EVER gotten the kinda shit that you could eat three grams of and trip your sack off. That's just based on my experience though, based on a good number of people's descriptions that I have actually met. And I run in a fair number of circles, so it can't just be who people know; maybe it's just this area. Well, the number of people who do boomers is huge, but I also never encountered shit that was so potent he didn't wanna eat at the very least a few grams... but other people would say they "tripped sack" off of one gram, IDK it's all relative to the person. I know potent ones exist, cause I've run into hardheads that talk about em, I just never encounter them. Probably because most commercial stuff is cubensis AFAIK.

Neuronaut7

03-03-2006, 06:52 PM

polymer

03-03-2006, 06:52 PM

cubes are by far the most common available on the black market, and the easiest to grow.

copes are regional (like liberty caps, and wavy caps), and harder to grow; you probably won't come across them as easily.

it's not unheard of to hear of people eating 8 or 9 grams of cubes; try that with copes or liberties, and you may find yourself curled under your blanket. they are that potent.

polymer

03-03-2006, 07:03 PM

So then taking more and more acid just means your trip is going to be longer and longer? I'm not trying to sound like a dick, I'm just tryin for knowledge right now.

If that's the case, then why is doing a thumbprint such a big deal, other than being an initiation rite? I mean, obviously there's a difference between doing a thumbprint and taking 6-7 drops, tabs what have you. Not to critisize, cuz I do agree, it's about preference, I'm just trying to point some things out - you're basing your opinion of the potential visionary state of acid on a dose that isn't THAT high. Not saying I would do it without thinking about it first, but people have done more. Back when LSD was still being used clinically, doses started anywhere from 200 - 800 mics (I don't remember where I read that, I know it was in a clinical proceedure for psychiatrists to follow) and possibly higher, if the situation dictated (such as if a subject were more resistant to the drug, resistant to ego loss, whatever).

I don't want to get into an argument and get all bad blood and everything, I'm trying to get more info in debate-ish form.

(and yes, I know I'm basing my shit on my friends' experiences on shrooms, but i'm basing my opinion on that, not on the tripping potential of shrooms, I've read experiences) no bad blood at all, bro; this is a nice civilized discussion here.
and no, the more acid you take isn't going to prolong the trip either; metabolism is the regulating factor.

thumbprints (because they're absorbed through the skin, and bypass enzymes in saliva which may break it down quickly) are no doubt a very effective method of taking LSD at full strength; but once it enters the brain, enzymes break it down. so either way you take it, the effect plateaus (by the way, when I say 6 -7 gels or drops, that's in the area of 300 - 450 mics, a medium to medium-high dose; you won't get any greater effect beyond 600 - 700 mics, no matter how you take it.)

I've read that some people who were resistant to even high doses of LSD (it's rare) succumbed to I.M. DMT (as reported by dr. strassman); it has to do with molecular structure of the substances, and metabolism.

polymer

03-04-2006, 05:55 PM

I might be wrong on the peak dosage/effect; it may actually have a shelf of 800 ug - 1mg, but the rest still applies (metabolism) I also read of that case where someone was injected with 320mg (320,000mics), and died, that's toxic shock.

perhaps I also have this notion that LSD won't produce what mckenna referred to as a "true hallucination" (correct me if I'm wrong)

Neuronaut7

03-07-2006, 06:40 PM

What would a "true" hallucination be then? I must've been wrong, I thought in doing a thumbprint, the thumb was then put in the mouth.

Perhaps what some people have taken wasn't actually LSD, but I've heard (from a friend, not just "i heard around somewhere") of trips lasting 18-24 hours, because of how much was taken. Would that then just be how someone's body broke it down, that they just happened to trip longer? Because that last time I tripped that I always alude to, that night my buddy passed out hours before I did (although that may have had something to do with the numerous (I'd say at least 10) beers and Everclear shots he had when we were coming down. But he had said he felt like it was over when it was definitely not over for me.

I would like to try some shrooms, and my girlfriend told me recently that she MIGHT want to experience something of the sort sometime. Probably wouldn't be for a while if it ever does happen, but I want to try shrooms just to see if maybe it would be a better option for her. I know she wouldn't want to trip for 8-12 hours; probably would be more comfortable with 4-6. But the nausea...is there a way to avoid that, cuz she really has a strong aversion to throwing up. Tea? How do you make mushroom tea?

I'm open to shit, I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that there's only so much you can take with acid, and that shrooms you can somehow keep taking more and keep entering new realms. So my question is, what is the difference between taking say 700 ug and taking 1500 ug? Is there going to be no difference, or no discernable difference?

Oh yeah, just a random story, really sad, but...a few years ago, a friend of my dad's son was shot by the police while he was tripping on shrooms. He had gotten pretty far gone, was running around naked and at one point jumped up on the police cruiser. They hadn't intended to kill him, but they couldn't get anywhere near him to give him a sedative or anything. Good reason for always having a sitter.

2cesarewild

03-07-2006, 07:07 PM

wtf dude, wow wow did he file a suit against the cops? How hard can it be for a police officer to detain a teenager? Get the fucking donut and cumwad out your throat you filthy fucking pig, they're supposed to be in shape enough to detain people, i mean it's a teenage kid!!! that's ridiculous man, that is so sad.

I just realized you didn't explicitly say that I kinda assumed, so how old and what kinda build was this dude?

Grapefruity

03-07-2006, 08:42 PM

What would a "true" hallucination be then? I must've been wrong, I thought in doing a thumbprint, the thumb was then put in the mouth.

true hallucination would be something that you see that isnt in the context of lsd at all guess...Kinda like you are a few hours into tripping, and out of nowhere you see very clearly a cartoon man walking across the visuals, waving you, But even then youd know it isnt real. Acid shouldnt do this if your mind is healthy...worse, seeing people that arent there and actually believe they are real.

Yeah it is put in the mouth. But ive heard that as soon as you eat it you feel it...Then for the next minutes I guess is a part that your total will and fate is determinant. The only slight thought of 'this might be dangerous' will be catastrophic I suppose. But youll end up dead anyways, for a good time.

I dont believe the peak of lsd effects is at 700 ug...Polymer seems like he has one hardcore tolerance...talkin bout 400mic like itsa medium dose ;p ... Must be reachin the intensity of dmt there or almost...You just have more time before and after.

Neuronaut7

03-07-2006, 08:48 PM

I'm not exactly sure, all I remember is that the situation was a bit more extreme than I told. I don't know all the details - I told what I know - but I do know that it was a bit more complicated than that. And yes, I'm pretty sure there were some legal issues that followed.

polymer

03-08-2006, 11:18 PM

true hallucination would be something that you see that isnt in the context of lsd at all guess...Kinda like you are a few hours into tripping, and out of nowhere you see very clearly a cartoon man walking across the visuals, waving you, But even then youd know it isnt real. Acid shouldnt do this if your mind is healthy...worse, seeing people that arent there and actually believe they are real.

Yeah it is put in the mouth. But ive heard that as soon as you eat it you feel it...Then for the next minutes I guess is a part that your total will and fate is determinant. The only slight thought of 'this might be dangerous' will be catastrophic I suppose. But youll end up dead anyways, for a good time.

I dont believe the peak of lsd effects is at 700 ug...Polymer seems like he has one hardcore tolerance...talkin bout 400mic like itsa medium dose ;p ... Must be reachin the intensity of dmt there or almost...You just have more time before and after. correct on the true hallucination

never heard of acid affecting someone right away, regardless of the way one takes it (can that really happen?)

acid can never reach the intensity of a DMT flash, no matter how high the dosage. it's just not that mind-blowing. DMT hyperspace makes even heroic doses of LSD seem like blowing bubbles. ego death? try ego annihilation and exhumation.

there is a peak dosage of acid/effect though, it may be around a mg, or possibly less. I've heard this from other gurus, and may have read it somewhere (more than likely "Hallucinogens: A Reader")

Neuronaut7

03-09-2006, 06:05 PM

polymer

03-10-2006, 11:29 PM

I don't think DMT is an issue here, I'm pretty sure all of us recognize that it's far more intense or however you want to describe it than acid. The way my friend described it to me (I had never heard of it before) was something like all of an acid experience condensed into a half hour or however long the drug lasts. He said it would be like rocketing off through space, and that people invariably see gnomes or the like on another planet or in a different dimension. At least that's what his buddies who have managed to find it have reported.

Off topic, but...is DMT as hard or harder to make as acid is? SWIM who wanted to attempt an LSD synthesis, was told to look into DMT because it's more rare. Info? your friend must've had a low dose, because it's a lot more mind-blowing than an acid trip, that's for sure. Any dose beyond 55mg would convince you just how tame acid really is.

DMT is not hard to make at all; you can start with tryptophan ---> tryptamine, but you're going to need chemicals that may be watched (i.e. sodium borohydride), and formalin. Tell SWIY to read a few organic texts before attempting any synthesis; although synthing DMT isn't particularly hard, it's not easy without the proper equipment, and not very safe either.
I have a few procedures on it, and the one I mentioned is probably the safest route, meaning, you don't have to use Lithium Aluminum Hydride, something that most chemists (including myself) cringe at whenever they just hear those words.

my advice to SWIY is, purchase some root bark, and do multiple extractions on it; that's the best way to avoid trouble, and blowing SWIY up (I'm not even kidding).

and yeah, DMT is, by far, more rare on the streets than LSD. Personally, I wouldn't try to sell the stuff (out of principle), and there really isn't a market for it anyway.

Neuronaut7

03-12-2006, 09:56 PM

What he meant by compressed into an hour or whatever was exactly that - that DMT is way more intense.

This guy is a bit crazy, but is a suberb chemist. He'll be finishing his chemistry degree a year or so early beacuse he just gobbles that stuff up...actually, it's pretty much why he wants to do this. He says nothing they've given him has been that much of a challenge and he thinks LSD is the way to go. After looking into it and realizing that three of the precursors are going to be extremely difficult (if not impossible for kids our age to procure) and that the glassware is going to cost several K, he (with the help of us) started looking at some other drugs. I told him to look into all the different RC's and see what we might be able to do. This guy's pretty much on his own though, we're more just telling him what not to try.

polymer

03-13-2006, 02:11 AM

that's all fun and good, and he may be a skilled chemist, but even skilled chemists are wary of using strong reduction/oxidation reagents. Just look at Shulgin's accounts of using LiAH; even he mentions the urgency of using great care with certain reagents. It's not an issue of precursors, when it comes down to the procedure, it's the reagents involved, and their sensitivity to certain conditions.

I mentioned in another thread how (in theory) mescaline would be easy to synth (it is); the tricky part is working with an alcohol precursor (trimethyl-benzyl-alcohol), in conjunction with Lithium Aluminum Hydride, one of the most dangerous chemicals in the lab.
the main part of the synth is reducing the alcohol, a potentially explosive scenario.

I reiterate: my suggestion to him is to do extractions on various entheogenic plants; much less hassle, legally, and in practice...arouses less suspicion.

Neuronaut7

03-13-2006, 02:57 AM

I suggested that he try the plant extractions, he balked at that idea and said something of "cheating" and it being too easy.

This guy is careful - he's made precursors to cancer medications that cost more than the most expensive heroin and have complex and dangerous synths. I'm confident he knows what he's doing, we just need to advise him on certain things.

And I think the prospect of being blown up is one of the things that motivates him about chemistry. He recognizes that risk and does whatever he can to make sure he's fine. He bugged us about making nitrous oxide for a couple weeks until we made it clear that we didn't want to have any. During that time, we asked how it was done and shit (I have a natural curiosity about everything) and he told me about the various steps and how one can blow one's self up during part of it. His eyes brightened up during that part.

I trust his abilities, all we need is a place and materials.

polymer

03-13-2006, 03:41 AM

then he should consider dmt, because lsd is more than likely beyond his stature; even ergotamine is watched like fort knox.

polymer

03-13-2006, 06:29 PM

dmt synthesis is a lot more involved than simple decomposition of ammonium nitrate; it releases hydrogen cyanide gas. also, formalin will be required.

and extractions aren't an easy way out, it's an easy way to avoid unnecessary attention; but if he can get access to tryptamine and sodium cyanoborohydride without arousing suspicion, more power to him.
think "echelon" .
also, plant extraction is akin to alchemy, an ancient art.
experience has taught me, when one procedure/technique is more feasible (financially, timewise, accessably and inconspicuously) than another, I'd go with the former...getting the same product regardless, no sense in thumbing my nose at a simpler method.

(words to the wise, from a veteran chemist)

Neuronaut7

03-14-2006, 06:35 PM

Went back through the thread a bit...someone provided a link to the shroomery site where a guy was talking about thumbprints. He said that people who do them usually need up to a week of "babysitting" afterwards and that you really never come all the way back. And it is almost instantaneous, right from when it touches your tongue. First hour or so is difficult, then you die. Almost literally. He said it was complete and total dissolusion of the self, with no option otherwise. Fighting it simply prolongs the inevitable. Someone asked what the visuals were like and what he remembers of the experience, but he couldn't answer that, all he could say was "there was no me to remember." All he said about that stage is that it was Eternity.

They (him and another guy that have done multiple thumbprints) started talkin about saturation levels...their hypothesis is that the method of delivery is what makes a difference. On regular high dose trips, you can't acheive full effects because of the blotter and whatnot. The one guy, goes by chinacat77 on shroomery, said that he doesn't like dosing acid anymore because it takes so much to get him off that it takes so long to go out and come back, and that he much prefers to take shrooms in combination with DMT because it's quicker and more to the point and less intense than a full blown acid experience.

Different but equal is what I got from one of his responses on page 22, I believe. Someone in that thread asked about synthetic psilocybin. Any info?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1427364/page//fpart/1/vc/1

polymer

03-14-2006, 08:46 PM

he much prefers to take shrooms in combination with DMT because it's quicker and more to the point and less intense than a full blown acid experience.
hahahahaha...riiight.
there's no f'ing way a "full blown acid experience" is more intense than a DMT flash. that's just too funny LOL

anyway, the synth for psilocybin starts with 4-benzyloxyindole, and requires argon gas, dimethylamine, oxalyl chloride, dioxane, and LiAH (along with some other reagents ..it's a fairly involved 5 step (for the intermediates) procedure

Grapefruity

03-14-2006, 09:04 PM

can you explain the dmt flash???

I mean,,, is it like time stops and the only thing theres is the neverending deepening of the fractals, seen in all dimensions or directions possible, that would be the parralel or time if you want...and there are entities and all emerging from this deepening, or multiplication , or whatever??? Impossible to move a finger from this flash even if you were fighting,and like your body is a distant waste?...

Cuz flash describes well a possible effect at a certain level of lsd trip...

polymer

03-14-2006, 09:11 PM

the LSD trip becomes a "peak"; DMT has the "flash".

it's the breakthrough into "hyperspace". you are suspended in 4th dimensional reality, where time is no longer the factor, alien entities appear with eyes open, but it's even more vivid with eyes closed; scenery is completely different than the actual place you're in. The carrier wave (buzzing sound common to psychedelics) is much louder, and your body feels the vibrations too; forces can be felt on the body. it's harder to control the trip, you MUST be a passive observer, or else you'll more than likely be scared out of your mind if you try to impose your will.

I've read a lot about "ego death" on lsd trips on this forum, but the dmt "death" is a pure NDE; and I hate to break it to the acid jockeys, but a slip into a DMT flash is certainly more rapid and intense than a thumbprint, it's just shorter (which is bewildering to the person who took it...tolerance develops quickly, and dissipates just as quickly)

2cesarewild

03-14-2006, 09:29 PM

You don't think eating 50 milligrams of crystal lsd is a "pure" nde?

Grapefruity

03-14-2006, 09:39 PM

polymer

03-15-2006, 12:47 AM

You don't think eating 50 milligrams of crystal lsd is a "pure" nde? no, I think it's a waste.

much less than that is needed to have a monstrous trip.

NDEs are often talked about with dissociatives (Ketamine, PCP, DXM), hallucinogens like DMT and DPT, and even salvia, because you experience the void. I suppose I could sense the void in a high LSD dosage...

I think it becomes a matter of semantics, especially when one meditates while under the influence. OBEs are certainly attainable with acid, shrooms, and all the ones I mentioned.

polymer

03-15-2006, 12:50 AM

What i meant by flash is that I was walking, very freaked out and for he first time since like 20 minutes , i could see stuff better, but it was peace before the a bomb....then i saw my gf fall down, and it did it to me too, like a truck coming, a thousand airplanes crashing on you...it just destroys you completely in no time, its like ripping paper, I could see at the same time the eternity of fractals, and like if i was facing my body which was, lookin like it was dead, drollin...Its like opening another dimension....

And it must be more intense if it happens and you are well there, like it did to me, cuz I was fighting and never transited in ego loss, thinkin this sucking me in was actual death. With dmt you start sober get to where you say in a few secs it is certain that its more intense.. what you described in the first part is a peak. a flash hits you all of a sudden, about 20 seconds to half a minute after exhaling DMT smoke; it slams you: you become a deer in the headlights.

there's no two or three hour build up, no way to prepare for it. it comes on as quickly as a sneeze, just like salvia, but much more intense in every sense.

LSDPsychonaut

03-15-2006, 12:56 AM

LSD is most definatley the best drug for me.

Neuronaut7

03-15-2006, 12:59 AM

The guy from shroomery said that that's as close as he could come to describing it was calling it a near death experience. To be more exact, he refered to it later as a post death experience, that you're taken to the Void that is death and there you experience the Eternity. Complete and total dissolusion of anything you've ever experienced.

I'm not saying that DMT isn't as intense, that's certainly not where the argument is. They're different and both are extremely intense. BUT...if you can remember a DMT experience, obviously part of "you" is still there to remember the experience. With chinacat's pde, there's nothing to remember because there was no "you."

Tell this guy it's a waste and he will certainly call bullshit on you. He knows 100's if not 1000's of people who have done thumbprints, and all will tell you that they have a better life because of it. Not that they developed the ability to just be happier, but that the experience awakened a perspective in them that allows them to have a better outlook about things. Even hardcore religious types are afraid of what comes when you die, but this guy (and the others who have done it) know what is coming and can lead their lives without fear of the end, because they know what happens.

And I think you missed the point of me saying that this guy doesn't like to trip acid anymore. He uses these other drugs (when he does trip, he has a family now) because it takes him out just about as far and brings him back faster without the lingering effects that acid does. I suggest you take the time to read that thread, even if it is jut chinacat's posts and read with an open mind.

polymer

03-15-2006, 01:10 AM

I did read it.

50 milligrams is a waste, because you can take a tenth of that, in crystal, and get the same effect.

I've read and heard several experiences, several books (many of Tim Leary's works), I know LSD changes people's lives; you don't need to try to convince me that a thumbprint ritual is the end all/be all of psychedelics, because it isn't . I'd imagine ibogaine rivals a thumbprint.
I personally knew of one person who did a thumbprint. He was shocked to the soul, for an entire day (weary the next) , not a week. LSD lasts 8 - 12 hours, not days....metabolism-regulated. (but: everyone's body chemistry is different, so obviously, some experiences will vary)

DMT lasts about as long as REM sleep, and very few can describe the experience afterwards, even an hour after it's all been said and done; it even kicked Tim Leary's ass; and amnesia results from high doses of DMT.

if you haven't read "DMT: The Spirit Molecule", I'd recommend doing so; one particular subject was very cocky, because he had extensive high-dose LSD experience, didn't think DMT would faze him. a 0.6mg/kg I.V. dose handed his ass to him.

I don't like to acid trip anymore either. I've had it for 12 years, and just don't feel it to be beneficial anymore; I just prefer potent shrooms occaisionally, and dmt.
sorry if it seems like I'm arguing , I'm not trying to argue; I just think that the short-acting tryptamines give some of the most intense experiences
but to each his/her own.

The.KK

03-15-2006, 02:07 AM

well, it's nearly impossible for anyone to get real LSD-25 anymore unless u got connections with the family or someone else that has access to a full laboratory and highly illegal substances...
Correct me if I'm wrong, LSD is probably the only drug (or one of the few) that is potent enough to put into blotters. So you can't really replace it or adulturate it.
IMO, acid is much more mind-expanding than shrooms, so it's really up to what you are looking for.

2cesarewild

03-15-2006, 02:08 AM

I knew a kid who was going to do ibogaine, but never got around to it. I guess he couldn't find a place in his schedule to take a week out and trip balls in a jungle.

polymer

03-15-2006, 02:15 AM

lucky kid.

ibogaine is pretty rare. virtually no market for it, it lasts crazy long, and shocks even an addict's soul. feedback loop of addiction gets broken: 80% recovery rate for heroin addicts, on average.

yet it's C-I ?!

heh

Grapefruity

03-15-2006, 02:15 AM

what you described in the first part is a peak. a flash hits you all of a sudden, about 20 seconds to half a minute after exhaling DMT smoke; it slams you: you become a deer in the headlights.

there's no two or three hour build up, no way to prepare for it. it comes on as quickly as a sneeze, just like salvia, but much more intense in every sense.yeah it did hit me all of the sudden...it was during the peak part, but like the stronger wave or flash if you want, it must have lasted 20 seconds or sometn, then it started doing less and less strong flashes, at a pretty regular interval, does dmt do this?. each flash is like a monkey makin love to a hole in your head (lips), you cant do anythin bout it, if you try, it just takes you so fast, its like short consecutive salvia breakthroughs, in terms of intensity...Nayways, we stick to what we have lived...

Ibogaine...can it be any fun? Or is it really mild and more a meditation tool or sometn?

polymer

03-15-2006, 02:21 AM

no no...

that's where time of the experience becomes a factor; DMT hits you, and it's like "wham"...you're smeared into the fabric of an alternate realm, and all you can really do is observe...3 minutes seems like an eternity.

what's so startling and intense is how quickly, and how hard, it hits you.

Alan Watts described it as "being shot out of an atomic cannon"

ibogaine is for serious realignment; it's notorious for curing addicts and alcoholics.

I suppose I'll agree on this: a thumbprint, a dmt flash, and an ibogaine journey, all have the potential to really have an impact on one's life... a real experience of true enlightenment.

next time you're in a head shop, look for the book "DMT: the Spirit Molecule"; it's Dr. Rick Strassman's account of administering DMT to research volunteers, to find a connection between the pineal gland, DMT, and spiritual near-death experiences.

Grapefruity

03-15-2006, 02:33 AM

no no...

that's where time of the experience becomes a factor; DMT hits you, and it's like "wham"...you're smeared into the fabric of an alternate realm, and all you can really do is observe...3 minutes seems like an eternity.

what's so startling and intense is how quickly, and how hard, it hits you.

Alan Watts described it as "being shot out of an atomic cannon"

Yes you describe what I lived...exactly. Except it did wham , then im back, then wham again etc......until were kinda back.

But a dmt flash must last much longer and be stronger dependin on dose, but i believe you can easily reach this level of peak intensity with lsd, if youd like and have good stuff. But certainly, you cannot reach such an intense come up as with dmt. But i have never tried it, its just that how you explain it it sounds so familiar...Maybe it just was similar, but weaker.

polymer

03-15-2006, 02:37 AM

i don't know; some people may disagree, but, what you do with your own trip you may perceive it as the most humbling experience you can have.

make the comparison when you experience both. :)

and DMT dosage cuts off too, the experience doesn't last any longer when smoked, or booted, in excess; you simply pass out and forget everything, like overdosing on salvinorin-a. William Burroughs reportedly injected 100mg, and "was flung into space-fiction paranoia"

also check out Peter Stafford's "Psychedelic Encyclopedia"; you'll find that Tim Leary, Richard Alpert, and Ralph Metzner all were so inspired by DMT, they published many articles and letters of praise, and the counterculture quickly found out.

Grapefruity

03-15-2006, 02:55 AM

Yes I understand what you mean...

.

Is there a way to extract dmt that doesnt linger the extraction for like weeks (as ive seen on the net)...often when i do fishy stuff like that I only have a day. I guess id try 20mg or so...to see how it is. But I kinda feel like I know how it is, well that I have a good idea...

polymer

03-15-2006, 04:39 AM

yes, it's an all day affair; I'll have to look for it, I know naptha is used for the extractions...muriatic acid (pool acid), red devil lye (or drano), and naptha.
you really have to do multiple extractions, or the yield will be low, but the boiling down of the acidic solution (where the ground up material is bathing) is what takes the most time.
pm me for the rundown of it

in the meantime, listen to this: http://www.joerogan.net/albums/roganaudio/Joe_Rogan_Explains_Life_002.mp3

a couple of things he mentioned that are debateable: "it's the most potent psychedelic known to man"

LSD is actually more potent, I think he meant "it's the most powerful (intense) psychedelic known to man" ...few would argue that.

and there is no substancial evidence that the pineal produces DMT, rather, it produces precursors which may eventually metabolize into 5-MeO-DMT, and possibly, DMT.

and while acetylcholine has a lot to do with REM sleep, the visual aspect of dreaming may be associated with endogenous psychedelic tryptamines; that's the connection he asserts

Grapefruity

03-15-2006, 05:13 AM

I dont really care about the yield, 100mg its fine...maybe I could make a really potent alcohol extract and start from there or something...Could I blow butane through one of the plants I can buy and get semi finished product?? or is dmt not soluble (word?) in butane

polymer

03-15-2006, 04:41 PM

dmt is not soluble in butane, but it is soluble in dilute acetic acid (vinegar, basically).

you may also soak some plant material in everclear, but for that, you'd have to wait a week.

my suggestion is to boil the plant material in about a gallon of water, add two cups of vinegar, and boil it down to a couple of cups of solution (total); this will take a few hours (about 4 or 5). strain off the plant material and pour the liquid into a large mason jar, let the solution cool, then add about a quarter-cup of naptha; tip the jar up and down a few times, and leth the two layers separate; pour off the top layer of naptha into another jar, and save...pour another quarter-cup of naptha into the solution, and repeat...do this about 4 or 5 times. keep the sark aqueous solution, discard the naptha, which has all the fatty acids.
next, add a base, like ammonia to the solution, until the pH is around 9. swirl the solution around to mix it fairly well.

(ether may be obtained by spraying engine starting fluid into a jar; stay away from flames, and don't store in glass jars, use only what you're going to use)

then, like you did with the naptha, add ether to the solution (make sure the mixture is cooled by now); do the same thing as with the naptha, except keep the ether portions...do several extractions with ether (very important, because we're shedding weeks off the typical procedure); pour the collected ether portions off into a baking dish, and let evaporate... *emeril voice* bam, dmt freebase.

Grapefruity

03-15-2006, 04:51 PM

okok...

so there would be no easy way that could make me a quick extract of ok quality, but having shitty yields?

polymer

03-15-2006, 05:01 PM

see above.

here's a good guide, I just revised it to fit the whole procedure into one day;
http://www.deoxy.org/smokedmt.htm

there is another one out there, which is similar to the one I typed out;

it works.

my only word of caution is be careful around ether; it's extremely volatile, and will evaporate quickly; do it in a cool area, away from any flames, and you'll be alright.

Grapefruity

03-15-2006, 05:09 PM

Nice!

All that is a bit shady for me is the base and the ether...spraying the starting fluid, theres no special way to do it, its just plain ether?

and the base...naoh I guess ill use...

for the quantity...could I try with an ounce or 2 of mimosa hostilis? Still same quantity of water?

polymer

03-15-2006, 05:14 PM

yes, grind up the mimosa, and boil it in the water; you can use any amount of water you see fit, just measure pH when adding the vinegar, and later, the NaOH (or ammonia)

oh, and base is base (you're using just OH- ions) ; some are stronger than others, but in this procedure, you don't necesarily need a strong base like NaOH...but use it if you got it, just use less than ammonia; get some pH papers from a chemical store, or pool supply store.

Starting fluid is just diethyl ether, and propane repellant; by spraying it into a jar, the propane disperses in air, and the ether collects in the jar.

also, get a turkey baster, to siphon off layers, pouring off the layers can be a hassle, if you don't have a seperatory funnel.

Grapefruity

03-15-2006, 05:19 PM

arigh thanx man!

oh and...is there a certain ph that the starting 'soup' has to be when it has boiled down for a few hours?

polymer

03-15-2006, 05:20 PM

np.

be safe.

Magical Fire Lady

03-31-2006, 07:58 PM

I've never done salvia and I don't really want to.. An extremely intense very short trip just doesn't sound cool to me. I don't know many people that prefer it.

I don't know which between shrooms and acid.. Shrooms was my first trip, and it was an amazing experience and colors were dancing and I love colors. Acid was also really colorful and I saw more like designs rather than just a modifying of things. I don't know which I prefer though, I'm going to do shrooms again, then maybe I'll know. I loved them both.-

Viruk

04-02-2006, 07:35 PM

Fuck this reminds me I still gotta try salvia. Everyone says its legal, but completely unworth it, and thats why its legal :)
LSD is by far my fav drug. Mushrooms are too nauseating for me.

moonhead

04-03-2006, 06:30 AM

days?? i find that one hard to believe. I've known one person who's done a print, and yeah he was gone all day, speechless, but he was fine the next day

1.5 grams (theoretical dose) of dried cyanescens will transport most people into shrrom hyperspace, 2 grams is a sure bet; lsd is just a real mindjob with lots of distortions.those cyanescens (sp?) are the strongest shrooms i've ever seen. four friends and i all ate about a gram a piece. 3 of us had death experiences. vision blacked out, paralysis of the body, total ego loss. it was wild. i don't do shrooms anymore. i don't really do LSD anymore, but I would before shrooms. and salvia i thought was a rip off. it was cool for about 30 seconds.

Grapefruity

04-07-2006, 02:12 AM

this kind of stuff only happened with rotten shrooms for me (blackin out of vision)...usually when its really strong there's more than enough to see :p

haha you sure it was one gram I know they are strong , but not that strong...

polymer

04-07-2006, 02:17 AM

those cyanescens (sp?) are the strongest shrooms i've ever seen. four friends and i all ate about a gram a piece. 3 of us had death experiences. vision blacked out, paralysis of the body, total ego loss. it was wild. i don't do shrooms anymore. i don't really do LSD anymore, but I would before shrooms. and salvia i thought was a rip off. it was cool for about 30 seconds.then you know what I'm talking about; a gram of those is considered a high dose, avg. dose is in the .4 - .6g range. Cyanescens are no joke; blue meanies are for serious psychonauts.

I don't do lsd anymore, because my better half is against it (poor girl has misconceptions about acid), but I would do blue meanies (I'd probably extract them); she's cool with mushrooms for some reason, probably because she's done them. Me, I'm all about psychedelics.. I could probably do them (annually) until I grow old like Shulgin.

SapphireSerenity

04-13-2006, 11:02 PM

Shrooms.

Gh0sTiNnyc

04-14-2006, 08:24 AM

lsd all the way..........

MeatWagon499

04-18-2006, 05:26 AM

acid and shrooms, my two favorite substances. i like acid more personally, feeling like im insane is quite a different feeling. break away from the norm.

NeoPascal

04-18-2006, 06:46 AM

i'll say lsd rocks but i'm gonna go with shrooms as for the simple fact of brainfrying is bad in the long term, as for salvia, i've done waaaaay too much of that shit....

indescribability

04-23-2006, 11:53 PM

I'm curious... how did u know for sure that it was the real stuff?
I know mine was real because I had intense visuals for about 15 hours or so.

Acid I find to be the better of the three. Shrooms are ok, but not as good, In my opnion. Not to mention shrooms here run $30-40 an 1/8, while I can get acid for a bout $70-$80 per ten strip. I don't know about anybody else but I most definitely find 5 hits of acid to be a much better trip than an 1/8 of shrooms for around the same price.

2cesarewild

04-24-2006, 05:52 PM

I know mine was real because I had intense visuals for about 15 hours or so.

lmao...

Soberbeah

04-24-2006, 08:21 PM

Acid for a entire day, shrooms for a daytime wonderland, and salvia just for a little bit whenever you're bored(even though it is pricey for a glimpse into mind distortion). They are all my preference to be honest.

localhippy

04-27-2006, 01:17 AM

mushrooms

Chillin

05-01-2006, 01:25 AM

shrooms most definetly salvia isnt somthing you do for "fun" its realllllllyyyy intese and not to be understimated and LSD is also more of and intesnse trip shrooms ore more giddy and fun

PeaceMaker

05-13-2006, 06:13 PM

shrooms would be so good if they didn't make my stomach feel like shit, i have never thrown up but i always feel like im going to but never do.

shrooms are good

rogercole

05-25-2006, 01:57 AM

acid man acid rocks man its not really fun but if you want to sit in a room and just stare acid

but cannibas is the best all the time

Jimbobsthebest

05-30-2006, 04:22 PM

My mate takes some Salvia here and has a pretty good trip, unfortunatly we could only afford the 5X at the time but it still sends him on his way!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q_El16obm8

Personally I prefer 'shrooms. Salvia is a very distorted trip, LSD can grab you by the balls but mushies seem to have a nice mellow comprimise.

James

swampgas

06-20-2006, 05:44 AM

Did real 25 back in the 60s and early 70s. The best. Also shrooms, Peyote, DMT, synthetic psilocybin, and synthetic mescaline. Never did Salvia. The synth psilicybin was VERY intense.

Shrooms always upsets the stomach, but 25 is a blast, a Funhouse Trigger.

psilojunkie

06-22-2006, 10:33 PM

shrooms are alright. Prob is that they are expensive like 45 and 1/8th around here. And they are not strong.

hmm... around here, no one can even sell shroomies for more than 35 an eighth and they're usually closer to 20 or 25 if you're getting a good deal and potency is not a problem, either. my last trip about a week and a half ago landed me in the hospital when my parents came up to my room and i didn't even realize they were in there (i know i shouldn't come home peaking but i didn't have much of a choice at the time) and that was on 4.5 grams, which was more than anyone else took of that batch
my dealer had a strong trip off of 1 gram and one of my other friends from eugene, OR only took half an eighth and he's used to a quarter, so if i were you, i'd look into the world of mushrooms a little bit more thoroughly before you give up on them

clementinexo

09-20-2006, 03:29 AM

LSD definately. salvia sucks. shrooms are okay though.

silver_thumbprint

09-29-2006, 08:48 PM

I think theyre all fun. Like the head said, Ive had fire L and crap L, even ate crystal, fire shrooms, powdered psyilo., mesc., designers, and made a fat batch of salvia. I did a test with the salvia and administered 200 doses at a festival in 00 or 01. 3 people, one being a friend of mine, wernt effected. Everyone else's dicks were in the dirt, even the girls. That is some serious shamanistic stuff. Some kids in the midwest had a religion type thing going with salvia for a while, they did come fancy extractions to get up around 30x. (DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU ARE A PSYCHONAUT!) Ive only done some 10x I made (tested the 5, Im not gonna assume the responsibility of passin around 10) and it really made me screwy. I mean big glowing plastic flowers enclosing me, cutting me off from the rest of the world, inky shadow midget men with spiral plastic hats, checkerboard floors, ladders, magical fractal plants. In my test, I administered a dose to one guy who claimed it didnt do anything. He was a raging hoosier. I gave him another blast. He sat down in a chair, and 30 seconds later, I could have sworn some invisible force picked him up out of his chair and threw him 6 feet. Yeah, SS10 or whatever was fun. Sure sucks nowdays though.

The problem is, kids want to make money, because other kids want to make money, etc. I dont have shit for green, but I can come up with a bill to cook some fire hallucinigens, then take em out to the woods and dose the fuck outta 200 people. Guess what? I got spun and taken care of for years afterwords. That's how it works...be cool, get invited to the tea party. Then all those kids drifted off to CO, now the new batch of kids is full of shit. Must all be cokeheads or something, or else they wouldnt need to make fat piles of money. Well guess what, when their murky ass karma ends up landing their asses in some shit, well...thats how it goes. Man, I miss the good ol days.

Ouch, I started ranting. Not tryin to harsh the deal lol!

How the hell!?!? People charge so much for mush. I guess my town isnt so bad after all. But really, for the purposes of 'recreation' I have to vote for shrooms. Mostly because of the safety level...bad trip? It wont last long. Fun laughy stuff...goofy stuff. Not on edge like L. Better for recreation. L is better for seriously trippin, and salvia is not for fun at all. But a big dose of shrooms (Ive had a quarter of specimen-grade friggin whoppers) is a real shamanistic experience. I ate that pile of fungi at the 04 dead show in StL...the grass roots were going all up through my ribs, the music was pulsating through the roots, jerry kept messin with my head, a girl had a 3d tattoo, dark forces were floating around and being driven off. Wow! Man, it seems like yesterday. I ate one tiny little pin that was in the bottom of the bag after I left homedude's house (we were packin for tour) and the pin had me goin...I remember looking in my rearview, sweatin balls, thinking about how damn good looking I was, and how my one snaggletooth just made it complete.

And just try being around a shit-ton of fireworks on shrooms. Cool!

Yeah, for overall fun, shrooms.

peas!

me

stickinote07

12-21-2006, 08:04 AM

salvia seriously did it for me for like 30 seconds.
after that i just felt high like on pot.

it was a big let down.

Anishacariya

02-23-2007, 12:10 AM

no fun with Salvia :(
Mushies and Hoffmans are the best

Loveminx

03-30-2007, 05:24 PM

salvia is gross, in my opinion...

esprit_voyageur

04-02-2007, 08:23 PM

shrooms, whatelse?

bamboo

04-13-2007, 11:18 PM

Lsd, shrooms or salvia...let me see...YES.

Weed&Speed2008

03-13-2008, 03:41 AM

I love Salvia, people who complain are usually just can't tolerate it. It is really intense, i only like it once a while, like evry couple of months. LSD is way to intense of me. I pick shrooms any day, hands down. I love em

Weed&Speed2008

03-13-2008, 03:42 AM

Nobody has any shrooms any more, its gay

somenerdyfreak

03-20-2008, 04:17 AM

acid lasts longer so its more fun. when you do shrooms, it wears off just as your done admiring the tracers and getting into your mind. with acid, youve got fucking 12 hours to explore your brain.

Weed&Speed2008

03-23-2008, 06:45 PM

salmon4me

03-23-2008, 10:19 PM

That's only for people who can handle acid. Which is not very many, most people hate doing Acid. Lasts TOO long for me. First time I did it i thought i was gonna die. Shrooms are for people who can't handle it. It's like a novice version.As we talked about on another thread, drugs effect people in different ways. So you can expect that people will have different viewpoints on drugs. Here's mine:

Most people enjoy acid. Only a small percentage have a bad trip, or don't enjoy it.

Shrooms can be every bit as intense as acid. It just depends how much you eat. I've seen people have bed trips on both.

C123-473

03-24-2008, 01:28 AM

LSD has always seemed a bit serious to me.
Mushrooms can give giggle fits.

I hate salvia.

burnabowl

03-25-2008, 12:54 AM

I guess the only truly objective way to determine the superior psychedelic would be to abandon any environment with variables, which would remove almost all of our experiences. if you really want to rise above individual preference, you could educate yourself and devote yourself to natural entheogens and total autonomy in synthesizing others. even if you did all that, you'd have to be dissociated enough on your own if you're going to determine objectively which drug has the "best" effects, since you'd need to fully extricate yourself from personal background and identity, and if you could do that, you probably have no interest or need for entheogens in the first place. I basically just took forever to say nothing...