Does it matter? [Archive]

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Sebbi

09-19-2005, 12:50 AM

Art Delfo

09-19-2005, 01:11 AM

yep
its all illusion but its illusion for a reason

SativaDiva

09-19-2005, 01:32 AM

Nothing matters at all. It's just fun to debate it every now and then. ;)

Soulless||Chaos

09-19-2005, 01:41 AM

It does and it doesn't it is and it isn't, we are and we aren't, we can but we can't.. :rolleyes: We may as well make the most of it, but then again we won't though we may not, but we will. :rolleyes: That probably didn't make any sense, but does it matter? :rolleyes:

thumontico

09-19-2005, 03:16 AM

What difference does it make whether we exist or not? whether the world around us is an illusion or not?

At the end of the day we've stuck here pretty much aren't we?

Sure we can't trust our senses, but we have to.

Even if it is all an illusion we may as well make the most of it.

Blessings

Sebbi
I think you're trying to say the question itself is moot. We should live the existence of what is apparent, speculating about it really doesn't get you anywhere, and is probably counterproductive.

If that's the case, I agree.

It does and it doesn't it is and it isn't, we are and we aren't, we can but we can't.. :rolleyes: We may as well make the most of it, but then again we won't though we may not, but we will. :rolleyes: That probably didn't make any sense, but does it matter? :rolleyes:
Saying, "What difference does it make whether we exist or not? whether the world around us is an illusion or not?" in my interpretation is not making a value judgement in terms of the importance of one or the other. Its saying in EITHER case it doesn't matter, and we should live life without valuing something that is Real over an Illusion or viceversa.

Soulless||Chaos

09-19-2005, 03:49 AM

I think you're trying to say the question itself is moot. We should live the existence of what is apparent, speculating about it really doesn't get you anywhere, and is probably counterproductive.

If that's the case, I agree.

Saying, "What difference does it make whether we exist or not? whether the world around us is an illusion or not?" in my interpretation is not making a value judgement in terms of the importance of one or the other. Its saying in EITHER case it doesn't matter, and we should live life without valuing something that is Real over an Illusion or viceversa.
I was just saying it's all of the above. :D And thus it does not matter. :D Perhaps inevitable is more suitable, but that still doesn't express what I mean it to. :confused:

White Feather

09-19-2005, 08:48 AM

What difference does it make whether we exist or not? whether the world around us is an illusion or not?
If it's only at the end of a day then it matters a lot. Just take a hammer and smash your hand as hard as possible and tell me the world is an illusion. Get a toothache and tell me it's all an illusion.

The difference is that believing whether we exist or not tends to make one lazy, to accept everything with indifference. If the ego is an illusion then you will never want to find out one way or the other. The world around you is an illusion because of your ego. Your personality and past experiences colour the present and future. So how you act and react is an illusion because neither the personality nor the ego are real. Oh, they're real enough, but they are not the truth. So by being indifferent you become complacent.

To mentaly think that the world around you is an illusion is delusion, it is a trick of the mind. But if you can find the Source within you, then the outlook changes because it is existential, it is a real discovery.

randy

09-24-2005, 08:59 PM

well no its not an illusion but i- as do many others- question why.. why we are here, why we are us, and so forth,

hmm

White Feather

09-24-2005, 10:55 PM

We all wonder, "Why?" The inquiring mind turns to either mysticism or science as an explanation. It just shows that you are discovering the world and trying to find your place in it, which is human and normal. That introspection is healthy, provided that you actually are seeking answers, that you are becoming interested in spirituality. Too much of the wrong type of introspection could make you depressed and insane, in which case you'll need to mellow out on Nature: get out in the world and enjoy it; go for a hike, go mountain climbing, go jogging, swimmming, etcetera. Too much introspection will have to be balanced by exercise.

Ultimately "Where did I come from?" will turn into "Where am I going?," and if you get too wrapped in "it" you will miss where you are now. Usually questions which involve the "I" are precursors to being in a relationship or wishing to be in one. The introspection may make you aware of loneliness and you may yearn to become a couple with someone else. If you are already in a relationship then you already know that you are presented with questions of individuality, whether you wish to keep it or change it. So again, it is a question of relationship, but this time a relationship with another instead of with the world.

Salmon swim upstream to spawn, it's all they know. You are trying to find the same answers, to find out what you know. You are therefore going on an existential journey, a journey of self discovery. It will determine how you deal with the rest of life, whether you live in the mind or in the heart.

Autentique

11-08-2005, 11:21 PM

White Feather.. your words are wao.. fantastic.

People are way too much concerned with the why I am here... What happens when I die. I'm not saying you shouldn't wonder, I'm saying that too much of it, takes you nowhere. Our focus should be on the here and now, what I have in front of me. Keeping the balance of being, realizing there is no I, we are a really tiny part of this giagantic puzzle, and letting go of our ego to become nothing, and once we are nothing, we are everything.
The world could be an illusion, but an illusion stops being an illusion when you think its real, then it is your reality. Let's say I see pink birds all the time, for all my life, I wouldnt think of them as an illusion, for me they would be real.. all the other people that can't see it, wiill it call it an illusion.
Life is about interacting with our surroundings, getting involved with the world and nature instead of detaching from it. It's about flowing.

-steve-

11-11-2005, 10:19 AM

Existentialism trips me the fuck out

TreeFiddy

11-13-2005, 07:20 PM

http://www.rider.edu/~suler/zenstory/nothingmat.html

White Feather

11-19-2005, 02:01 AM

Thanks for the bookmark.

mati

11-22-2005, 09:03 AM

the "externality of relations" is an illusion. life is a dream

thumontico

11-23-2005, 01:02 AM

life feels like a dream

and now i rarely dream or remember them

can you explain this?

mati

11-23-2005, 02:32 PM

I am no psychologist and my solipsistical beleifs are largely borrowed from a man called Art Kleps who was a leader of a psychedelic church in the 60's. If you want to learn more there is a web site for the Original Kleptonian Neo-American Church, just google it. It is better explained there. Dreams may be the working out of problems in the psyche. There are techniques that can improve the ability to remember dreams. I don't think there is any difference between "waking" life and when we are sleeping, except that our bodies shut down during the night. Our normal daily life can be thought of as a "dream" also and the lessons that can be learned apply as well. If life seems to be going good for you then maybe you don't have any big problems in your psyche that need attention.

RavenTheDarkAngel

12-09-2005, 08:02 AM

It doesn't matter whether you exist or not. Because if someone told you for a fact that you didn't exist, would you just stop? Or would you move forward realizng that the reality of your existance doesn't change anything at all. Life still goes on: You living yours and others with theirs.

White Feather

12-13-2005, 06:06 PM

Ever see the Hudson Brothers movie, "Hilarious"? The dead come back to life and keep repeating, "What difference does it make?"

Spiritforces

12-15-2005, 01:17 AM

To mati and others:

And what if it was more like the night governs the day, like we were all issued from "dream time":

Do you think a baby dreams before he or she is born?

Do you experience reality first, do you create thoughts in your mind first, or do you dream first?

How far are we under the determination of influences? What set us free and what gives us any chance to choose in "liberty"?

You say: "dreams are to work out problems of your psyche"

The world psyche could be replaced by... lot of things
I try to say, the problems find their way to the psyche

What matters then, is not the fact it is existing in a reality or in a illusionnary something, what matters it how it enters your own. How you influence it.

Did you came to:
The illusionary something could be exactly yourself, like issued from yourself?

Then, the night would be the day, or just governing it?

Peace,
figure it out lol :)

All in One

mati

12-16-2005, 02:07 PM

I deny the externality of relations. Our circumstances are our soul.

MollyBloom

12-16-2005, 11:10 PM

you have now entered the third phase in the journey towards serial murder.

welcome. :)
Sheesh that's cynical. Maybe she's just on the journey to enlightened guru, rather than psychopathic killer. Or maybe the line between genius and lunacy is a fine line.

Just imagine: Jeffrey Dahmer could have been Gandhi.

TrippinBTM

12-17-2005, 04:07 AM

I dont think so. I mean, sure, anyone could be enlightened. But insanity is more like addiction to the ego, usually a rather deranged ego at that, while enlightenment is an ego-less state. But I figure one might "snap" from ego into non-ego at any time, depending on the circumstances, in that I agree with the Zen sect that says enlightenemt is a sudden sort of thing (doesn't HAVE to be though). So who knows, maybe Dahmer might have "snapped" into an enlightened state at some point.

George

12-29-2005, 06:05 PM

I'd use psychedelics if I was you. Read the Tao te Ching first, then read Leary's Psychedelic Experience and then his Exo-Psychology. Then dose in a place where you don't know anyone, but you feel the people are really friendly and have dosed before. If you do that, be sure to post and tell me if you've found meaning. All the reading isn't completely necessary but will deffinately help, trust me.
Peace
George

Ramona

05-06-2006, 04:52 AM