Which element?

[Art Delfo]

In the days of greek philospohy an arguement was what what was the main element

earth
wind
fire
water

today we know that these are not elements at all but whatever

so what do you think which is the main element

I say water.

[Hikaru Zero]

Firstly, there are only four elements ... wind and air are the same domain.

Secondly, the point of the four elements was that none of them was more dominant than the rest.

[MamaTheLama]

I'd go with air...since it probably takes up more space than anything else.

[StonerBill]

with todays knowlege that mass can be equated to energy, perhaps fire would be considered the main one.

really what they had was solid, liquid, gas, and energy.

[StonerBill]

sorry i change that, i chose the 5th element, love

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[forest_pixie84]

Air, you need to breathe before you can even get to the others.

[MamaTheLama]

I pick the 6th element....monnnneeeyyyyyy
*evil laugh*

[forest_pixie84]

more like the 666th element...i just got chills, how ever did you get onto the hip forums?

[MamaTheLama]

Thru the computer that I paid for.

[Burbot]

none, everything [with the exception of the elements themselves] relies on more than one element to exist

and yes, Hikaru is correct, there are only 4 elements

[BlackBillBlake]

none, everything [with the exception of the elements themselves] relies on more than one element to exist

and yes, Hikaru is correct, there are only 4 elements
A lot of occultists say there are five - ether being the 5th.

[TrippinBTM]

^i was just about to point that out.

Anyways, yeah, no one element was the superior one, they were all equal.

Also interesting is the idea of humors as far as greek medicine goes. I wonder if that is still valid. It sounds a bit like Ayurvedic ideas I've read.

[steffan]

come on people, long before the greeks they knew that there are three elements
earth representing all things solid
wind representing all gasses
fire representing energy, and since all things are realy energy it is the main one
and if dark mater is a real thing it could be a forth,
water is oxegen and hydrogen, they knew this because they boiled it away

[Hikaru Zero]

A lot of occultists say there are five - ether being the 5th.

Ether ... are you referring to a wind domain, or a "transcendent" or even spiritual domain?

Regardless, even if you do believe in a transcendent elemental domain, this domain is not actually an element, it's transcendent because it stands due to the other four elements coexisting in balance. That's how I've heard it anyway.

[Burbot]

water is oxegen and hydrogen, they knew this because they boiled it away
you need to zap water with electricity to seperate it...boiling will only make it water vapour

[Colours]

It was water. they believed water could be frozen to make any solid.

[steffan]

It was water. they believed water could be frozen to make any solid. i sappose it comes down to your definition of 'element'

some of the smartest people who ever lived did so thousands of years ago, they understood lot more than we give them credit for

check it out,.. remmember the game , one of these things is not like he others.
earth wind fire water
which would you choose?

[Colours]

earth :)

[StonerBill]

captain planet

[TrippinBTM]

^haha, hell yeah. That kid who had the "heart" power really got screwed, didn't he?

[Varuna]

If it's just a question of physics, then I'm voting for Superstrings as the basic element.

[scrap_rat]

It depends on who you ask. Hesiod thought Gaia was first so I guess he would say Earth. Heraclitus picked Fire as the first principal. Thales liked Water. Anaxamander went with Air which in his view was rarified to make fire, condensed to make water and earth. No one agreed.

Empedocles, one of the Atomists, regarded the elements as equally eternal; Philistion his pupil equated the elements with four qualities, Air-Cold, Fire-Hot, Water-Moist, Earth-Dry. Personaly I think of Air-Dry and Earth-Cold. Aristotle thought different from both of us and assigned two qualities to each element instead.

Ptolemy came along in his Tetrabiblos and assigned the directions to the qualities as: East- Dry, South- Hot, West- Moist, North- Cold. 1800 years later the Golden Dawn (which we know had read the Neoplatonists and Ptolemy) and other occult circles started calling the quarters. Might have happened in small groups earlier, we will never know for sure, but from there entered into the then nascent Pagan movement from there in the early 1900's.

For me the Four Elements is a convenient way of thinking about and relating to the earth. They do represent the basic foundation of life as we know quite well. We need food grown in the earth or harvested from the sea, we need water, we need breath, we need warmth. Starhawk calls them the Four Sacred Things:

http://www.cyberus.ca/~sustain1/solution/Commitment.shtml

Works for me.